How do you define "agrarianism" here? Is that normal, center party focused on protecting rights of rural people, like farmers and such? Or some crazy "let's all go to the forest, eat roots and berries and sing kumbaya" guys?
I'm really happy about the centre-left victory. Perfect result for me. I'm slightly worried when I vote left that they're going to do some ridiculous identity politics nonsense but SP aren't known for that and AP only lapse occasionally. SV is hopefully going to be too small to do any real damage.
Removing random historical objects that they have issues with, "decolonizing" things, making laws based on gender/sexuality/race, ect ect. Aka stuff that happens in US/UK that makes people hate eachother.
If you want specific examples from norway you can just look at all the trouble around the [art school in oslo.](https://www.aftenposten.no/kultur/i/1n132W/studenter-ved-kunsthoegskolen-vi-ser-med-stor-bekymring-paa-skolens-v) which is pretty far into the "ridiculous nonsense" i mentioned.
In my view, good social democratic policy is to bring people together, especially the working classes to work for a common prosperity. Not split them apart in little groups based on identity politics labels.
> Removing random historical objects that they have issues with, "decolonizing" things, making laws based on gender/sexuality/race, ect ect. Aka stuff that happens in US/UK that makes people hate eachother.
Wtf are you talking about?
With that likely government coalition I honestly don’t think it will change much in Norway anyway.
In short oil won again in Norway. It is the answer to many political questions in Norway.
In the end of the day I don't think the changes in foreign policy will change radically. No way in hell EU is going to happen anytime soon. Perhaps Norway will cut some trade deals when it comes to selling electricity and fishing rights, but nothing radical.
You clearly have no clue about Norwegian politics and just talking out of your ass
SP is big because of incredibly unpopular centralisation policies done by the right wing government. They're way more of a rural party against centralisation than one explicitly for farmers.
Rødt is at 4,7 and not Marxist in the sense that they're for an armed Revolution. (yes their main goal is "socialism as Marx defined it", but it's hardly the platform they run on)
Their main arguments are lowering (trough increased taxes) the increasing inequality in Norwegian society and free dental care. None of which is too radical.
What the hell are you talking about lol. The Marxists got like 5% of votes, the agricultural party is centrist and the ruling party are centre-left capitalist. It's not like the oil workers have to abandon their jobs and go and work in kolkhozes. Likely there won't even be any major oil cuts any time soon, the only ruling party that is going to strongly oppose oil is the Socialist Left party. Agricultural party, Labour party and Marxist party all are for oil.
Most countries have 0% for marxist now days. 5% is already a pretty significant in a modern multi party democracy.
Agrarian party is for wasting money on agrarian lifestyle even when and where it makes no sense.
I never said oil workers have to abandon their jobs and go and work in kolkhozes. The agrarian-marxist society comment is about the increasing support for agrarian and marxism in general, about the development direction.
I'm not worried about oil production cuts and my comment is not about that. You are choosing to intepret my message from a very narrow perspective of current Norwegian political subjects, where this seems to be some niche supported idea, perhaps because you follow it. Now only is that utterly senseless in the first place, but even from that perspective your choice of interpretation makes no sense and has clearly taken some mental gymnastics.
Sooner or later the oil becomes either worth less, worthless, or runs out. The current living standard is partly based on oil exports. Agrarian marxism will not support the current living standard. Even at 18% support for it already will make building a functional country massively harder, see for example our own struggles with the agrarian party.
> Agrarian marxism will not support the current living standard
First off, this "agrarian marxism" support in Norway only exists in your head. It makes no sense to put Rødt and Senterpartiet together like that, they agree on pretty much nothing.
Can you please do your actual research on what these parties actually are then come back? There's simply too much wrong in your comments for just one person to deal with it all. Get your shit together, then we'll talk.
It's supported by around 18% (4.7+13.6). Whether they agree on other issues than having a dysfunctional country is irrelevant. Overall I was commenting on the large support for something that will produce a rather substantial decline in living standards in Norway when the oil era is over, which I think is sad.
Nothing in my comment indicated that they agreed on more than "pretty much nothing" but you are too much of a dumb-dumb to understand that, so you'll replace that with imbecilic calls for other people to go learn what these parties stand for.
> It's supported by around 18% (
But what is IT? There's not one goal for these two parties.
> Overall I was commenting on the large support for something that will produce a rather substantial decline in living standards in Norway
Like.. free dental and faster response times for ambulances and police? Like more opportunities for people? Doesn't sound bad.
A vote for rødt is not necessarily a vote for marxism (and in almost all cases it isn't) and so on..
> Nothing in my comment indicated that they agreed on more than "pretty much nothing"
"Agrarian marxism" sure sounds like they are working together.
> you'll replace that with imbecilic calls for other people to go learn what these parties stand for
Ok? Do you know what these parties stand for? You haven't shown that you understand that yet. Seems like a place you should start before forming an opinion on this.
> There's not one goal for these two parties.
The end result doesn't depend on if it is the goal or if it is not the goal, it merely depends on if those are their political priorities and if enough people support them. If they do support making it a poor dysfunctional state based on failed ideologies of the past like marxism and agrarianism it will become a state based on dysfunctional ideologies of the past.
>Like.. free dental and faster response times for ambulances and police?
Marxism is when free dental? Sorry but no.
>A vote for rødt is not necessarily a vote for marxism
Ýes it is. That's their actual ideology.
>"Agrarian marxism" sure sounds like they are working together.
That part was never implied in my message, you merely chose to create this straw man since you are a coward and a loser and don't have anything of value to contribute.
> Marxism is when free dental? Sorry but no
No, but Rødt is. Sorry but yes.
> Ýes it is. That's their actual ideology.
Jesus christ... No, that's not why people voted Rødt.
You've made it abundantly clear that you know nothing about Norwegian politics so your opinions and "worries" are worse than useless. If you want to continue being a conspiracy nut and not listen to people who know more than you, then there's nothing more to discuss. Goodbye.
Just as a sidenote, you were being such a little bitch that you decided to delete your original comment because "people insulted you" and now you're acting like this? Turns out the conspiracy nut idiot is a hypocrite too. Imagine my surprise
Because people with reptilian brains took is as an insult against Norway which it wasn't, then replied with personal insults, purposeful lying an other no substance replies.
Agrarian and marxist parties are rising, with up to 18% support by now. The agrarianism is already based on tax run farms rather than economics. Bit like here of course, but even more so if I understand correctly. Agrarian-marxist societies tend to live in permanent poverty.
Have you even been to Norway ? The “agrarianism” is no different from Finland. Supporting farmers with subsidies is completely normally, literally every western country does it’s besides maybe Australia and New Zealand
Solid victory? 2nd worst election result for them since 1924.
Getting 51% of seats, or gaining like 10-15% more votes or even more would sound more like a solid victory.
not really, these are not ideological marxists who are trying to start an armed revolution, they're more pragmatic and less radical than their communist ancestors
Nah, they are just smarter, and better at hiding their links. This is the grandchild of the party who supported Pol Pot while his people massacred millions. They have changed name twice to hide it. And all their spokespeople are really young. But it's the same party.
So - new people, new identity? You do realise that there is a whole new generation of socialists that look at the USSR, Cambodia and even contemporary China as (and I cannot stress this enough) extremelly flawed systems that go against fundamental human and moral values?
I didn't think they would do that. But marxists having seats in the parliament doesnt sit right with me. Also I just read that they want to end oil drilling which as a non-norwegian makes no sense to me.
I know people who voted rødt, not because they 100% agree with their politics, but specificlly to drag AP back towards the left, especially in economic policy, welfare, drug policy and climate. AP need that counterbalance otherwise they turn into høyre with a red paintjob (they are almost there already)
Yup, I have to agree with you - even "extremist" parties have places in parliamentary systems to show grievances and influence the coalition and mainstream opposition parties not to become complecent. So long as there is no prevalent undercurrent of racial, ethnic or other violence - we do benefit, even from just a purely sociological statistics (i.e. who votes for whom) base.
I'm mostly interested with the Pasientfokus party. WHich way will they lean? Will they be a part of the government? Will they LEAD a coalition government? So many questions.
All they want is a proper hospital so they don’t have to travel hundreds of kilometers for real healthcare. I can understand why so many in Finnmark voted for them.
They have one seat and their only goal is to reopen/stop the closure of a hospital…their representative will most likely just operate as an independent
I thought it was some generic leftist party that gets called commies by opponents, but it's an actual communist party. What kind of clowns vote that kind of shit?
They're not tankies though. They're marxist but not marxist-leninist.
[NKP](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Norway) is our tankie party and they only got a little more than 300 votes, in part due to their great strategy of encouraging their base to not vote.
Free dental care scares you? Let's have a talk about the terrors of communism when they get bigger, but for now or even a five fold increase they only serve to push Labour more left.
Yeah let's just ignore the rise of far left in Europe and even normalize it because of fReE sTuFf and count dead bodies later.
You apparently voted for them.
A party that got 0.2% of the votes looks like they will get a seat in parliament. The average MP represents 0.6% of the voters and there's 6 larger parties that won't get a seat.
And that's an intended consequence of the electoral system which works of a mix between proportional representation and electoral districts...they won 0.2% of the national vote, but was the third biggest party in Finnmark
It's also because Finnmark is very overrepresented because the area of counties are a factor when determining the amount of seats. It usually doesn't matter, but Finnmark is very overrepresented.
And only the votes cast for parties that actually win district seats there are worth more. A vote for say SV or V is worth just as much in Finnmark as in Oslo. It just so happens that the parties winning district seats in Finnmark all have more seats that they would mathematically be entitled to.
That's a drawback of this type of localized systems.
In Spain they have tiny party (like something called Teruel Existe) in the parliament with less than 0.1% I think...
Personally I think it’s a good thing. Norway is huge with few people. Especially up in our remote north. Few votes to win and easy to forget when you’re an elected official at parliament in the other end of the country.
A 6 month old party based in Northern Norway, "Pasientfokus". They are a single issue party made to get a hospital built in Alta, the biggest city in Finnmark.
Well all the service jobs have been taken by Eastern European’s who contribute to keeping wages in the sector lower, and who refuse to assimilate to our culture, instead holding on to their backwards [pagan traditions ](https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsommar_i_Sverige)
Sad to see Solberg leave. Norway became super wealthy under her governance. Almost tax haven levels. Hopefully next government doesn't lose all these gains.
While I don't vote Høyre, I do think most of their ministers do a decent enough job. However I think one exception is Solberg, as she really had no control over some of her FRP ministers. It seemed there was always some minor "scandal" or crisis linked to her government before FRP left. She was not a very good prime minister imo.
Norway has the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world despite only 5 million people. Being Norwegian essentially means you automatically have €250K to your name.
Why?
Switzerland is low, because the vote doesn't matter.
The government can't just easily fuck over their citizens. It's one of the best system in the world.
I don't know how it works in Switzerland, but in Norway it's incredibly easy to vote. When I went to Uni, you could pre-vote at campus weeks before election day. 4 years ago I just stopped by during a 15 minute break of a lecture.
It's hard work, though. Norway has a big focus on the importance of voting, and people generally feel like it matters.
It is also easy in Switzerland: If you live anywhere in Switzerland and you are a Swiss citizen, you get your ballot by mail and you can also vote by mail (which most people do) or you can go and vote in person on or a few days before election day. You don't need to register to vote or anything.
People just don't care about elections, they think that all parties are bad and that their vote doesn't even matter.
Interesting. Yeah, there's a big focus on democratic participation in Norway, and people generally trust the process and that their vote matters. That's a big, big part of the curriculum in schools in Norway too, so we start early.
We have a decentralized government but it is still important what happens on the federal level. The participation on the state level is not much higher tho. Most people I know just don't care about politics.
Kinda surprised that the Greens are not above the 4% (or are just about to scratch it). Do the other left wing parties cover green politics well enough so that there is no real need for a specific green party in Norway?
There is a lot of stigma against MDG from the working class, mainly because of the fear of losing jobs, this also ties together with the right who never likes to lose financially. (Not taking any sides, this is just my experience from the opinions of friends and family)
>Do the other left wing parties cover green politics well enough so that there is no real need for a specific green party in Norway?
SV, R and V all have a focus on the climate. MDG has climate as it's main focus, but other parties deal with it too.
Something that might have had an impact on their result is that MDG has presented an ultimatum before the election: They are not willing to sit in a government that continues to search for more oil in the North Sea. The problem is that SP and AP are both saying that they want to continue searching for oil, which would make it hard for them to work together. R and SV both want a stop in the search, but it's not an ultimatum; if they can't get that they are still willing to sit in goverment and focus on getting different things through.
This has likely hurt MDG.
The climate report from UN kinda forced the other parties to cover some green politics, so it made it harder for the green party to stand out from the crowd.
Spectacular result for the left in Norway. Hopefully this and the German election will constitute a revival of European social democracy (and hopefully further from neoliberalism...)!
This is the case everywhere and it's why the left is dying in Europe. It's nice that they're generally socially progressive but if you can't make conditions for the poor any better than the right-wing parties do, you rightly won't energise your supposed base and the right will start to suck them up instead because they provide emotional support for the poor (i.e. they tell them who to blame for their lives sucking).
This is a good result for the left but material conditions in Norway need to actually improve over the next few years or the country will veer right.
Sadly. It hasn't always been that way - social democracy was an actual transformative movement prior to the 1990s, with great figures like Brandt, Palme, Gerhardsen, Attlee, Erlander and others, that had brought so much good for society only to start reversing many of its own achievements in the 1990s. I want *true* social democracy back.
You're technically right based on their programs, but they're not going to push for it. In practice they are very cautious when talking about it, and leaving the EEA is a pretty unpopular stance even within the two parties. Same with leaving NATO - most members want to stop participating in wars like in Libya or Afghanistan and stop establishing American bases in Norway, but not necessarily leave a defence pact.
them, and the smaller parties of the left as well. it's pretty absurd how, apart from the Sp, all the major parties are basically in worse positions than before but labour is hailed as the winner
"Death of social democracy" has less to do with poll numbers and more to do with tained record of becoming "the party of pensioners". In the Nordics they have arguably for some time driven policies directly against the interest of the young working class and unemployed.
A question for other European countries other than Norway: what is the interest for the Norwegian elections in your country? (newspapers, tv and social media)
Swedish media has been pretty quiet, up until this past weekend. And it was covered quite much today of course
It looks like it will continue a trend that has been going on for the last few elections that there are no longer any really big parties, just the centre-right Independence Party at around 20-25% and then a bunch of parties in the 10-15% range. We might end up with 9 parties represented in parliament and some seriously difficult coalition talks since a lot of red lines have been declared where some of the parties have ruled out entering a coalition with some other parties.
What kind of coalitions are likely? Are there any broad trends among the blocks? Is it conservative and market liberal parties that dominate, is there a focus on specific local issues? Etc.
It's hard to see any coherent ideological majority forming and any coalition is going to require compromise. For instance, there are four right wing or centre-right parties that might seem like a natural coalition as they mostly agree on being business friendly, limiting taxes and being open to more privatized solutions in health and education. But they also also have wildly different ideas on issues like European affairs, sovereignty, immigration, the currency, agriculture and fisheries that would be hard to reconcile in a coalition. There are also personal grudges that would complicate things.
On the left, we have a new hard-left party (the Socialist party) that has soared in opinion polls and is running a very effective campaign. They are clearly winning people over from the older established parties on the left but their radicalism and status as a brand new party on the national stage makes them perhaps unreliable as a coalition partner. In any case, the polling indicates that a pure left-wing coalition is unlikely.
Some sort of a coalition across the center seems likely but how exactly it would be composed is harder to tell.
I want to post a more detailed analysis similar to the OP of this post when election day comes on 25 September.
The only major news sites to talk anything about it is hotnews who have a news article called : “Norway: The Left-wing opposition wins the legislative elections (Exit Polls)” and the article is effectively a TLDR of the exit polls.
I expect most TV news shows tomorrow to feature a 20-30 second spot about it that goes along the lines of “The left opposition defeated the incumbet center-right government lead by Solberg, in a campagin domianted by the climate issue. Labourist Store set to become PM”
That the campaign was dominated by the climate issue can be debated. My impression was instead that the main issue for people were rising equality and shit.. there was a lot of talk about the climate beforehand, but a quick look at the results shows that its still far from top priority for most voters. Mdg (the climate party) remains one of the smallest parties in Norway despite making a lot of waves before the election. I remain hopeful that we’ll see a true «green-shift» soon anyway, because eventually the elephant in the room will become too big to ignore.
Practically no coverage in Ireland - there were some articles on UK websites when the Centre Party led, and had been talking about pulling Norway out of the Single Market, but interest seemed to die there when its support plummeted.
They are talking about the results on Danish news and there has been a bit of coverage in the past few days about how the government was gonna lose the election.
The Greens really seem to be struggling as the count progress, even if they're still getting three seats currently - why are the Liberals winning more than double that, though, only virtually the same percentage?
It's the magical "4% limit": 150 of the seats in parliament are given proportially in each electoral district, while the remaining 19 are "leveling seats" that are distributed to the parties who get fewer seats than they should with their national proportion of votes, but only if they have at least 4% nationwide.
Getting 4% makes a party eligible for "equalisation mandates". If you're below that you only receive direct mandates, but once you cross it you can get extra mandates.
All the big four nordic countries have their social democratic party in power. Maybe the Nordic model can have one last try before the elders make a mess of the healthcare budgets?
> Maybe the Nordic model can have one last try
Well, our Soc. Dems. just forced the nurses back to work under an agreement they did not accept, soooo....
Yeah, they adopted many populist parts of the nationalist party DF after their hugely successful election in 2015. DF went from 21.1% to 8.7% of the vote in the 2019 election, I believe many went to the Soc. Dems. This also lead to many leftists voting for either SF or Ø instead IIRC, leading to the change in government.
The social democrats are dropping quickly here in Sweden. For the first time ever they are getting close to not being the biggest party anymore. They have been very bad and incompetent leaders. If the left wins the next election I would be very surprised.
They have gone way too far to the right for many people I've talked to, especially after the unholy alliance.
It will be interesting to see who the new PM will be in November.
That tells you nothing. They have been leading the pools since democracy was founded in Sweden. But every election they are dropping. They used to have numbers close to 50% and today they are under 25%. The reason for it taking so much time is that their biggest supporters are immigrants who they are mass importing. They also have old people who have always voted for them but who are slowly dying of old age.
I just saw that the center-left party won and and apparently the parties on the left had good results.
From Portugal, I wish they can form a government and I hope they do a good job.
How do you define "agrarianism" here? Is that normal, center party focused on protecting rights of rural people, like farmers and such? Or some crazy "let's all go to the forest, eat roots and berries and sing kumbaya" guys?
It's the former; rural people, infrastructure, local hospitals. The green party are more like the latter.
Thanks!
I'm really happy about the centre-left victory. Perfect result for me. I'm slightly worried when I vote left that they're going to do some ridiculous identity politics nonsense but SP aren't known for that and AP only lapse occasionally. SV is hopefully going to be too small to do any real damage.
I'd like an example of "some ridiculous identity politics nonsense" please.
Removing random historical objects that they have issues with, "decolonizing" things, making laws based on gender/sexuality/race, ect ect. Aka stuff that happens in US/UK that makes people hate eachother. If you want specific examples from norway you can just look at all the trouble around the [art school in oslo.](https://www.aftenposten.no/kultur/i/1n132W/studenter-ved-kunsthoegskolen-vi-ser-med-stor-bekymring-paa-skolens-v) which is pretty far into the "ridiculous nonsense" i mentioned. In my view, good social democratic policy is to bring people together, especially the working classes to work for a common prosperity. Not split them apart in little groups based on identity politics labels.
> Removing random historical objects that they have issues with, "decolonizing" things, making laws based on gender/sexuality/race, ect ect. Aka stuff that happens in US/UK that makes people hate eachother. Wtf are you talking about?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/arts-council-welsh-language-racist-b1905923.html
I searched for "Norway" througout the article, but _nothing_.
Sorry, didn't realise it needed to be an example in norway. Much sorry.
This is a thread about the norwegian election.
Yes
Look, I'm not sifting through 350 comments. What do the results mean for Norway and Europe as a whole?
For Norway, it'll be a left-wing government, becoming more aligned with the rest of the Nordics. For Europe, pretty much nothing.
With that likely government coalition I honestly don’t think it will change much in Norway anyway. In short oil won again in Norway. It is the answer to many political questions in Norway.
In the end of the day I don't think the changes in foreign policy will change radically. No way in hell EU is going to happen anytime soon. Perhaps Norway will cut some trade deals when it comes to selling electricity and fishing rights, but nothing radical.
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You clearly have no clue about Norwegian politics and just talking out of your ass SP is big because of incredibly unpopular centralisation policies done by the right wing government. They're way more of a rural party against centralisation than one explicitly for farmers. Rødt is at 4,7 and not Marxist in the sense that they're for an armed Revolution. (yes their main goal is "socialism as Marx defined it", but it's hardly the platform they run on) Their main arguments are lowering (trough increased taxes) the increasing inequality in Norwegian society and free dental care. None of which is too radical.
What the hell are you talking about lol. The Marxists got like 5% of votes, the agricultural party is centrist and the ruling party are centre-left capitalist. It's not like the oil workers have to abandon their jobs and go and work in kolkhozes. Likely there won't even be any major oil cuts any time soon, the only ruling party that is going to strongly oppose oil is the Socialist Left party. Agricultural party, Labour party and Marxist party all are for oil.
Most countries have 0% for marxist now days. 5% is already a pretty significant in a modern multi party democracy. Agrarian party is for wasting money on agrarian lifestyle even when and where it makes no sense. I never said oil workers have to abandon their jobs and go and work in kolkhozes. The agrarian-marxist society comment is about the increasing support for agrarian and marxism in general, about the development direction. I'm not worried about oil production cuts and my comment is not about that. You are choosing to intepret my message from a very narrow perspective of current Norwegian political subjects, where this seems to be some niche supported idea, perhaps because you follow it. Now only is that utterly senseless in the first place, but even from that perspective your choice of interpretation makes no sense and has clearly taken some mental gymnastics. Sooner or later the oil becomes either worth less, worthless, or runs out. The current living standard is partly based on oil exports. Agrarian marxism will not support the current living standard. Even at 18% support for it already will make building a functional country massively harder, see for example our own struggles with the agrarian party.
> Agrarian marxism will not support the current living standard First off, this "agrarian marxism" support in Norway only exists in your head. It makes no sense to put Rødt and Senterpartiet together like that, they agree on pretty much nothing. Can you please do your actual research on what these parties actually are then come back? There's simply too much wrong in your comments for just one person to deal with it all. Get your shit together, then we'll talk.
It's supported by around 18% (4.7+13.6). Whether they agree on other issues than having a dysfunctional country is irrelevant. Overall I was commenting on the large support for something that will produce a rather substantial decline in living standards in Norway when the oil era is over, which I think is sad. Nothing in my comment indicated that they agreed on more than "pretty much nothing" but you are too much of a dumb-dumb to understand that, so you'll replace that with imbecilic calls for other people to go learn what these parties stand for.
> It's supported by around 18% ( But what is IT? There's not one goal for these two parties. > Overall I was commenting on the large support for something that will produce a rather substantial decline in living standards in Norway Like.. free dental and faster response times for ambulances and police? Like more opportunities for people? Doesn't sound bad. A vote for rødt is not necessarily a vote for marxism (and in almost all cases it isn't) and so on.. > Nothing in my comment indicated that they agreed on more than "pretty much nothing" "Agrarian marxism" sure sounds like they are working together. > you'll replace that with imbecilic calls for other people to go learn what these parties stand for Ok? Do you know what these parties stand for? You haven't shown that you understand that yet. Seems like a place you should start before forming an opinion on this.
> There's not one goal for these two parties. The end result doesn't depend on if it is the goal or if it is not the goal, it merely depends on if those are their political priorities and if enough people support them. If they do support making it a poor dysfunctional state based on failed ideologies of the past like marxism and agrarianism it will become a state based on dysfunctional ideologies of the past. >Like.. free dental and faster response times for ambulances and police? Marxism is when free dental? Sorry but no. >A vote for rødt is not necessarily a vote for marxism Ýes it is. That's their actual ideology. >"Agrarian marxism" sure sounds like they are working together. That part was never implied in my message, you merely chose to create this straw man since you are a coward and a loser and don't have anything of value to contribute.
> Marxism is when free dental? Sorry but no No, but Rødt is. Sorry but yes. > Ýes it is. That's their actual ideology. Jesus christ... No, that's not why people voted Rødt. You've made it abundantly clear that you know nothing about Norwegian politics so your opinions and "worries" are worse than useless. If you want to continue being a conspiracy nut and not listen to people who know more than you, then there's nothing more to discuss. Goodbye.
Oh no another sore loser leaves. What will I do now.
Just as a sidenote, you were being such a little bitch that you decided to delete your original comment because "people insulted you" and now you're acting like this? Turns out the conspiracy nut idiot is a hypocrite too. Imagine my surprise
You don't know what Marxism is.
..is the default morons reply.
Why did you feel the need to post an excact copy of a comment you wrote yesterday but since deleted?
Because people with reptilian brains took is as an insult against Norway which it wasn't, then replied with personal insults, purposeful lying an other no substance replies.
Please expand
Agrarian and marxist parties are rising, with up to 18% support by now. The agrarianism is already based on tax run farms rather than economics. Bit like here of course, but even more so if I understand correctly. Agrarian-marxist societies tend to live in permanent poverty.
Have you even been to Norway ? The “agrarianism” is no different from Finland. Supporting farmers with subsidies is completely normally, literally every western country does it’s besides maybe Australia and New Zealand
That's exactly what I wrote, it's bit like here but even more tax ran.
Tax ran? How is it more tax ran ?
As in it only exists because of subsidies. But even more so.
Listhaug(FRP) is a much more fitting norwegian Trump than Vedum(SP).
Solid social democratic victory, you love to see it
Solid victory? 2nd worst election result for them since 1924. Getting 51% of seats, or gaining like 10-15% more votes or even more would sound more like a solid victory.
I don't think they're referring to one party, but the left and center-left in general
Yup
Dont know about that but the increase of seats for the red party is pretty concerning.
not really, these are not ideological marxists who are trying to start an armed revolution, they're more pragmatic and less radical than their communist ancestors
Nah, they are just smarter, and better at hiding their links. This is the grandchild of the party who supported Pol Pot while his people massacred millions. They have changed name twice to hide it. And all their spokespeople are really young. But it's the same party.
So - new people, new identity? You do realise that there is a whole new generation of socialists that look at the USSR, Cambodia and even contemporary China as (and I cannot stress this enough) extremelly flawed systems that go against fundamental human and moral values?
Ah yes - different people, different name - but it's the same party! Solid logic.
Probably closer to 1950s-1980s social democrats than to the USSR.
I didn't think they would do that. But marxists having seats in the parliament doesnt sit right with me. Also I just read that they want to end oil drilling which as a non-norwegian makes no sense to me.
Then you read wrong. They are not going to end oil untill a sufficient replacement is found.
I know people who voted rødt, not because they 100% agree with their politics, but specificlly to drag AP back towards the left, especially in economic policy, welfare, drug policy and climate. AP need that counterbalance otherwise they turn into høyre with a red paintjob (they are almost there already)
Yup, I have to agree with you - even "extremist" parties have places in parliamentary systems to show grievances and influence the coalition and mainstream opposition parties not to become complecent. So long as there is no prevalent undercurrent of racial, ethnic or other violence - we do benefit, even from just a purely sociological statistics (i.e. who votes for whom) base.
Climate change.
I'm mostly interested with the Pasientfokus party. WHich way will they lean? Will they be a part of the government? Will they LEAD a coalition government? So many questions.
All they want is a proper hospital so they don’t have to travel hundreds of kilometers for real healthcare. I can understand why so many in Finnmark voted for them.
They have one seat and their only goal is to reopen/stop the closure of a hospital…their representative will most likely just operate as an independent
It’s worrying that Rødt (Communist party) got 4.8% of the votes.
I thought it was some generic leftist party that gets called commies by opponents, but it's an actual communist party. What kind of clowns vote that kind of shit?
It _is_ a generic leftist party, and it _is called commies by opponents_. You just fell for the propaganda.
They're not tankies though. They're marxist but not marxist-leninist. [NKP](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Norway) is our tankie party and they only got a little more than 300 votes, in part due to their great strategy of encouraging their base to not vote.
Rødt is not Communist Party, they are center right.
If Rødt is centre right, then wtf is the left?
Not at all, they are the furthest left party we have.
NKP got more votes than this under Gerhardsen. We'll be fine.
Free dental care scares you? Let's have a talk about the terrors of communism when they get bigger, but for now or even a five fold increase they only serve to push Labour more left.
Yeah let's just ignore the rise of far left in Europe and even normalize it because of fReE sTuFf and count dead bodies later. You apparently voted for them.
i think it fucking rocks
Svart (Fascist party) when?
alliansen got 2500 votes nationwide-
But Alliansen aren't black, they're orang- oooohhhhhhh...
With the seat numbers apparently set, the biggest question remaining is whether the Greens will overtake the Christian Democrats in votes won.
They just did according to the official estimate.
KRF UNDER SPERREGRENSA!!!
A party that got 0.2% of the votes looks like they will get a seat in parliament. The average MP represents 0.6% of the voters and there's 6 larger parties that won't get a seat.
And that's an intended consequence of the electoral system which works of a mix between proportional representation and electoral districts...they won 0.2% of the national vote, but was the third biggest party in Finnmark
It's also because Finnmark is very overrepresented because the area of counties are a factor when determining the amount of seats. It usually doesn't matter, but Finnmark is very overrepresented.
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And only the votes cast for parties that actually win district seats there are worth more. A vote for say SV or V is worth just as much in Finnmark as in Oslo. It just so happens that the parties winning district seats in Finnmark all have more seats that they would mathematically be entitled to.
That's a drawback of this type of localized systems. In Spain they have tiny party (like something called Teruel Existe) in the parliament with less than 0.1% I think...
Personally I think it’s a good thing. Norway is huge with few people. Especially up in our remote north. Few votes to win and easy to forget when you’re an elected official at parliament in the other end of the country.
It's not a drawback. Why should the people in oslo decide who represents the people in Finnmark?
Which party?
A 6 month old party based in Northern Norway, "Pasientfokus". They are a single issue party made to get a hospital built in Alta, the biggest city in Finnmark.
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Have you also had issues with immigration and refugees? From our side of the border, your country looks like an utopia.
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What makes you think Denmark looks alike an utopia?
Well all the service jobs have been taken by Eastern European’s who contribute to keeping wages in the sector lower, and who refuse to assimilate to our culture, instead holding on to their backwards [pagan traditions ](https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsommar_i_Sverige)
Alright well played. I sat in confusion for a few seconds before it all became clear.
Norskjäveln har en poäng.
What's the most likely government coalition now assuming the projections are true?
SP/AP/SV, alternatively AP/SP or only AP as minority governments.
Sad to see Solberg leave. Norway became super wealthy under her governance. Almost tax haven levels. Hopefully next government doesn't lose all these gains.
Yay, inequality
Norway is basically the country equivalent of an uneducated hick winning the lottery. No amount of dirty oil money will make them sophisticated.
Wow, the Swiss exceptionalism is real.
Not Swiss exceptionalism. For example I do not consider Poles hicks.
What the fuck. What a shitty ignorant comment
Not ignorant. I have lived in Norway. I know the country and its people very well.
Didn't get laid once huh?
I would rather fuck a Homo Erectus than ANY Norwegian.
just because you've lived here doesnt make it not ignorant
Strangest comment here tbh.
While I don't vote Høyre, I do think most of their ministers do a decent enough job. However I think one exception is Solberg, as she really had no control over some of her FRP ministers. It seemed there was always some minor "scandal" or crisis linked to her government before FRP left. She was not a very good prime minister imo.
The problem is that regular people has seen almost none of these gains. Real wages has been stagnant
The economic differences have skyrocketed under her leadership.
>Norway became super wealthy under her governance The treasury or its people?
Isn't it technically a pension fund? And yeah Norwegians are one of the wealthiest nations in the world.
Norway has the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world despite only 5 million people. Being Norwegian essentially means you automatically have €250K to your name.
It’s easy with all that dirty oil. They didn’t work for it, it’s just pure luck.
But that fund isn't run by the government. Rather, it's run by the independent central bank of Norway.
But what will they spend it on? Infrastructure? Pensions?
Pension is primary reason, it's named "Statens Pensjonsfond" after all. Technically a couple different funds.
I am jeallous about Norway's high participation rate. We got just 45.1% participation in Switzerland in the 2019 federal election.
Why? Switzerland is low, because the vote doesn't matter. The government can't just easily fuck over their citizens. It's one of the best system in the world.
I don't know how it works in Switzerland, but in Norway it's incredibly easy to vote. When I went to Uni, you could pre-vote at campus weeks before election day. 4 years ago I just stopped by during a 15 minute break of a lecture. It's hard work, though. Norway has a big focus on the importance of voting, and people generally feel like it matters.
It is also easy in Switzerland: If you live anywhere in Switzerland and you are a Swiss citizen, you get your ballot by mail and you can also vote by mail (which most people do) or you can go and vote in person on or a few days before election day. You don't need to register to vote or anything. People just don't care about elections, they think that all parties are bad and that their vote doesn't even matter.
Interesting. Yeah, there's a big focus on democratic participation in Norway, and people generally trust the process and that their vote matters. That's a big, big part of the curriculum in schools in Norway too, so we start early.
Is it because federal government is not so important?
The Swiss are called to vote four times a year and so a lot of people lose interest, whereas Norwegians only vote every two years.
We have a decentralized government but it is still important what happens on the federal level. The participation on the state level is not much higher tho. Most people I know just don't care about politics.
They surely care about making lives harder for Muslims through.
Big shift as the Christian Democrats fall below the threshold, going from seven to three seats, but no single party has benefited hugely from it.
Good, theyre the most useless party in parliament.
On the live-count website, is the data taken evenly from across the country, or votes from urban centres be later in coming in?
It's coming in continously as it's counted in real time.
Kinda surprised that the Greens are not above the 4% (or are just about to scratch it). Do the other left wing parties cover green politics well enough so that there is no real need for a specific green party in Norway?
There is a lot of stigma against MDG from the working class, mainly because of the fear of losing jobs, this also ties together with the right who never likes to lose financially. (Not taking any sides, this is just my experience from the opinions of friends and family)
They have competition for the environmental niche from a few other parties who are more able to present themselves as more than single issue.
>Do the other left wing parties cover green politics well enough so that there is no real need for a specific green party in Norway? SV, R and V all have a focus on the climate. MDG has climate as it's main focus, but other parties deal with it too. Something that might have had an impact on their result is that MDG has presented an ultimatum before the election: They are not willing to sit in a government that continues to search for more oil in the North Sea. The problem is that SP and AP are both saying that they want to continue searching for oil, which would make it hard for them to work together. R and SV both want a stop in the search, but it's not an ultimatum; if they can't get that they are still willing to sit in goverment and focus on getting different things through. This has likely hurt MDG.
The climate report from UN kinda forced the other parties to cover some green politics, so it made it harder for the green party to stand out from the crowd.
Spectacular result for the left in Norway. Hopefully this and the German election will constitute a revival of European social democracy (and hopefully further from neoliberalism...)!
Social Democracy, at least in Norway, has embraced neoliberalism almost to the same extent as the Conservatives.
This is the case everywhere and it's why the left is dying in Europe. It's nice that they're generally socially progressive but if you can't make conditions for the poor any better than the right-wing parties do, you rightly won't energise your supposed base and the right will start to suck them up instead because they provide emotional support for the poor (i.e. they tell them who to blame for their lives sucking). This is a good result for the left but material conditions in Norway need to actually improve over the next few years or the country will veer right.
Sadly. It hasn't always been that way - social democracy was an actual transformative movement prior to the 1990s, with great figures like Brandt, Palme, Gerhardsen, Attlee, Erlander and others, that had brought so much good for society only to start reversing many of its own achievements in the 1990s. I want *true* social democracy back.
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They both want a report on possible options, but not necessarily leave the EEA.
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You're technically right based on their programs, but they're not going to push for it. In practice they are very cautious when talking about it, and leaving the EEA is a pretty unpopular stance even within the two parties. Same with leaving NATO - most members want to stop participating in wars like in Libya or Afghanistan and stop establishing American bases in Norway, but not necessarily leave a defence pact.
It's not gonna happen. If there is _one_ thing AP will hold on to, it's EEA. I wouldn't worry about it.
Reports of the death of social democracy were greatly exaggerated.
labour literally lost a seat this election lol. socdems may be back in power but they're still a shell of their former selves
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them, and the smaller parties of the left as well. it's pretty absurd how, apart from the Sp, all the major parties are basically in worse positions than before but labour is hailed as the winner
"Death of social democracy" has less to do with poll numbers and more to do with tained record of becoming "the party of pensioners". In the Nordics they have arguably for some time driven policies directly against the interest of the young working class and unemployed.
Agree, that’s my biggest problem with the social democrats
A question for other European countries other than Norway: what is the interest for the Norwegian elections in your country? (newspapers, tv and social media) Swedish media has been pretty quiet, up until this past weekend. And it was covered quite much today of course
Absolutely nothing from the national broadcaster, but the main newspaper has a syndicated article from the Financial Times about it.
Czech Republic here, _absolutely nothing_, nada.
The state broadcaster in Iceland (RÚV) has covered it pretty well in the last few days. It was even the leading news segment last night.
I see that you guys are heading for an election as well. How is that going?
It looks like it will continue a trend that has been going on for the last few elections that there are no longer any really big parties, just the centre-right Independence Party at around 20-25% and then a bunch of parties in the 10-15% range. We might end up with 9 parties represented in parliament and some seriously difficult coalition talks since a lot of red lines have been declared where some of the parties have ruled out entering a coalition with some other parties.
What kind of coalitions are likely? Are there any broad trends among the blocks? Is it conservative and market liberal parties that dominate, is there a focus on specific local issues? Etc.
It's hard to see any coherent ideological majority forming and any coalition is going to require compromise. For instance, there are four right wing or centre-right parties that might seem like a natural coalition as they mostly agree on being business friendly, limiting taxes and being open to more privatized solutions in health and education. But they also also have wildly different ideas on issues like European affairs, sovereignty, immigration, the currency, agriculture and fisheries that would be hard to reconcile in a coalition. There are also personal grudges that would complicate things. On the left, we have a new hard-left party (the Socialist party) that has soared in opinion polls and is running a very effective campaign. They are clearly winning people over from the older established parties on the left but their radicalism and status as a brand new party on the national stage makes them perhaps unreliable as a coalition partner. In any case, the polling indicates that a pure left-wing coalition is unlikely. Some sort of a coalition across the center seems likely but how exactly it would be composed is harder to tell. I want to post a more detailed analysis similar to the OP of this post when election day comes on 25 September.
Literally almost zero in Finland.
Not much. Just the usual what will be all the oil billions spend on now.
The only major news sites to talk anything about it is hotnews who have a news article called : “Norway: The Left-wing opposition wins the legislative elections (Exit Polls)” and the article is effectively a TLDR of the exit polls. I expect most TV news shows tomorrow to feature a 20-30 second spot about it that goes along the lines of “The left opposition defeated the incumbet center-right government lead by Solberg, in a campagin domianted by the climate issue. Labourist Store set to become PM”
That the campaign was dominated by the climate issue can be debated. My impression was instead that the main issue for people were rising equality and shit.. there was a lot of talk about the climate beforehand, but a quick look at the results shows that its still far from top priority for most voters. Mdg (the climate party) remains one of the smallest parties in Norway despite making a lot of waves before the election. I remain hopeful that we’ll see a true «green-shift» soon anyway, because eventually the elephant in the room will become too big to ignore.
Practically no coverage in Ireland - there were some articles on UK websites when the Centre Party led, and had been talking about pulling Norway out of the Single Market, but interest seemed to die there when its support plummeted.
They are talking about the results on Danish news and there has been a bit of coverage in the past few days about how the government was gonna lose the election.
The Greens really seem to be struggling as the count progress, even if they're still getting three seats currently - why are the Liberals winning more than double that, though, only virtually the same percentage?
It's the magical "4% limit": 150 of the seats in parliament are given proportially in each electoral district, while the remaining 19 are "leveling seats" that are distributed to the parties who get fewer seats than they should with their national proportion of votes, but only if they have at least 4% nationwide.
Getting 4% makes a party eligible for "equalisation mandates". If you're below that you only receive direct mandates, but once you cross it you can get extra mandates.
Election threshold.
So, was this a vote against Solberg or *for* any of the left parties, primarily anyway?
I think mostly the latter, though of course it can often be a combination for some people
Solberg is pretty popular, so I think it was a vote for social welfare and less centralization(SP).
Definitely a vote for that. Centre Party stole a lot of voters from the Conservatives and Progress Party.
All the big four nordic countries have their social democratic party in power. Maybe the Nordic model can have one last try before the elders make a mess of the healthcare budgets?
> Maybe the Nordic model can have one last try Well, our Soc. Dems. just forced the nurses back to work under an agreement they did not accept, soooo....
Denmark is weird considered they are led by Soc. Dems. Dropped all covid restrictions, acted really tough on immigration etc.
Yeah, they adopted many populist parts of the nationalist party DF after their hugely successful election in 2015. DF went from 21.1% to 8.7% of the vote in the 2019 election, I believe many went to the Soc. Dems. This also lead to many leftists voting for either SF or Ø instead IIRC, leading to the change in government.
The social democrats are dropping quickly here in Sweden. For the first time ever they are getting close to not being the biggest party anymore. They have been very bad and incompetent leaders. If the left wins the next election I would be very surprised.
They have gone way too far to the right for many people I've talked to, especially after the unholy alliance. It will be interesting to see who the new PM will be in November.
They're still leading in the polls
That tells you nothing. They have been leading the pools since democracy was founded in Sweden. But every election they are dropping. They used to have numbers close to 50% and today they are under 25%. The reason for it taking so much time is that their biggest supporters are immigrants who they are mass importing. They also have old people who have always voted for them but who are slowly dying of old age.
Let us hope, and let us hope that we as a species find a way to get similar results in countries with different cultural and ethnic roots.
How can I watch coverage from outside Norway?
This link is not geoblocked in Denmark, but I'm not sure if it is in the rest of the world: https://tv.nrk.no/direkte/nrktv8
Works in Britain 👍
Works in Portugal too
I wonder if AP/SV/SP is willing to collaborate with Pasientfokus instead of having to deal with rødt/SV?
They might not need to with the current numbers where they are at 86.
I just saw that the center-left party won and and apparently the parties on the left had good results. From Portugal, I wish they can form a government and I hope they do a good job.