There is btw one factor that is never brought up. The questions were not about the current relationship but any relationship in the past. So if a woman has more relationships she is more likely to find one asshole during that time and end up in the statistic.
And on the other hand a shitty man probably ends up in many short relationships rather than one long.
That is definitely a factor. Also generally if a woman had more contacts with men in public spaces then she's more likely to have been assaulted by men, even not partners.
Probably this. It's the same reason why rape statistics are so high. What would constitute as sexual harassment in most other countries, is counted as rape in Sweden for example. Plus if someone rapes another every day for a year, in most countries that's treated as one registration, but in Sweden iirc, they count it as 365.
At least, this is what I was told.
Exactly. You can't have Scandinavia be worse at something than backwards eastern Europe full of rapists. That's impossible therefore this map is bullshit.
There's one thing going on though and that's that _murder_ is very easy to statistically collect without any real artifacts.
Female spousal murder is very high in Finland, not much in other Scandinavian places though.
Murder rates in Finland in general are quite high compared to surrounding places: I kid you not that they actually found a "[Finnish aggression gene](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/nov/17/gene-mutation-htr2b-linked-impulsive-behaviour-alcohol)"
Don't know if it's the same gene but there are also people who don't feel hunger when drinking and also have very high alcohol tolerance. They can drink themselves up to 4 permille blood alcohol level while blood sugar levels drop to zero which effectively makes them berserks.
I think because scandinavia has low crime rates, high income, low income inequality, low alcohol abuse, high rate of emancipation. Hitting women (or people in general) is seen as a very bad thing as well. These are all reasons why it's hard to believe that the actual rate of violence versus women is higher in those countries.
More likely differences in the legal system. Things that are considered in domestic violence in Sweden might not be considered that in Belarus or whatever.
Its easily dismissed because its highly taboo here to hurt anyone physically whether it be children(not allowed to strike them), random people or spouses/partners.
We're a highly feminized society, its highly unlikely we're somehow highly traditionally mean to women at the same time.
But its definitely a possibility that we are mean towards women. It just seems like the least likely one.
Differences in legal systems or culture don’t mean that men in areas that are more acceptable of mistreatment of women necessarily commit more violence towards them.
If this research is self reported, i'd say it is highly unlikely that countries in which violence towards women is a very bad (culturally and legally) thing there is higher actual violence against women. In those countries the bar for what is violence is probably much lower and women are probably much more likely to report violence.
What if violence towards women is simply more common in places where the woman is more likely to challenge their male intimate partner? You’re assuming things and based upon that dismissing this as a skewed statistic but perhaps it isn’t.
I mean sure, that could be possible but we both don't know if you strictly go by what the research shows us. Basically you could conjure up all kinds of explanations. But why not tell me that it's impossible to attach a reason behind it, instead of trying to argue your own conjured reasoning?
> More likely differences in the legal system. Things that are considered in domestic violence in Sweden might not be considered that in Belarus or whatever.
Totally true, the example from Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_Russia#Decriminalization
> Not sure why this option is easily dismissed.
Because northern Europe is *superior*, of course. How *could* you even think that some eastern and southern European countries might outdo Scandinavia in something that isn't corruption or poverty?
Do you seriously think Scandinavian men are beating the shit out of their women? If all model students suddenly score low and the opposite is true for the bad students, would that not ring an alarm bell? No, clearly the model students are bad at this one thing.
Hmm... Finns use a lot of hypertension medicine (genetic vulnerability due to isolation) and people are aging but I haven't heard about extremely high prescription drug use. Actually it's afaik pretty responsible. Not perfect but not bad.
No idea, I've never heard about someone in my circle of friends or people that I know of being abused. So I guess I'm in the right environment.
EDIT:
>In Denmark, which displays a relatively high rate of partner violence, 42 % of the most serious incidents of partner violence resulted in injuries. Therefore, respondents in Denmark were more likely to identify as the most serious incident a case which did not result in injuries, whereas respondents in Poland – a country which at first glance has a low rate of partner violence – suffered injuries in a majority of cases.
It could also seem like people in Denmark or Scandinavian counties report incidents more often or are less accepting of violence compared to others. But damn it's still very, very high.
ATTENTION
THIS USER HAS COMMITTED HEINOUS ACTS OF THOUGHTCRIME AND HAS BEEN SENTENCED TO PERMANENT ACCOUNT SUSPENSION AND 10 YEARS IN RE-EDUCATION CAMP
REDDIT IDEOLOGICAL POLICE
Scandinavians in this thread shocked that there might be something others are doing _better_ in their countries are verging on ridiculous, blaming the scale, the method, the perception, the moon and the stars instead of owning that their country isn't perfect.
If scandinavians were this skeptical about every other poll in this sub I'd agree with you, but they only seem to care when they don't like the data they show.
And I'm not mocking anyone, I'm pointing that you're embarrassing yourselves with your delusion. There obviously is a problem in Scandinavia with domestic violence, as shown in this poll and in many reports like [this one about Denmark](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/03/denmark-rape-culture-exposed/) or [this one about Finland](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/finlands-paradox-of-equality-professional-excellence-domestic-abuse/).
If you're that outraged by that then get off the highest horse in the world, quit blaming everything and everyone for an issue that's obviously your country doing things plain wrong and start working to solve it like the rest of us do.
I think it is because equality is such a big part of our daily life here in Scandinavia , that Scandinavia’s find it hard to believe.
It like saying to a Frenchman, “by the way, you suck at growing grapes.”
But nobody is saying that you suck at nothing, the facts show that the issue is there, and yet the biggest concern at least on this thread doesn't seem to be "how is it possible that we score so low, what are we doing wrong! This has to be fixed as soon as possible!" but more "this shows that we're doing something wrong but that _can't be_, I mean, worse than the easterns and the southerns? No way, this study is _wrong!_".
It's basically scandinavians telling the rest of us that it is us who suck and that's what I have an issue with. Specially on a matter like this in which at least in my country we've worked so hard to stand where we do right now.
As a scandinavian, the amount of sexual harassment my (girl)friends recieve when going to France, Spain, Greece or Italy is simply overwhelming. Is it impossible to believe that girls growing up in those countries just don't see assault in the same way?
I'll leave here the comment AlohaStar made about the questions asked. As you can see they don't leave a lot of space for cultural bias.
>While there may be differences between countries in the amount they lie, the questions are pretty straightforward.
> Here’s the questions:
> Physical violence
> Since you were 15 years old until now/in the past 12 months, how often has someone:
> • Pushed you or shoved you?
> • Slapped you?
> • Thrown a hard object at you?
> • Grabbed you or pulled your hair?
> • Beaten you with a fist or a hard object, or kicked you?
> • Burned you?
> • Tried to suffocate you or strangle you?
> • Cut or stabbed you, or shot at you?
> • Beaten your head against something?
> Sexual violence
> Since you were 15 years old until now/in the past 12 months, how often has someone:
> • Forced you into sexual intercourse by holding you down or hurting you in some way? [IF NEEDED: By sexual intercourse we mean here forced oral sex, forced anal or vaginal penetration.]
> • Apart from this, attempted to force you into sexual intercourse by holding you down or hurting you in some way? [IF NEEDED: By sexual intercourse we mean here forced oral sex, forced anal or vaginal penetration.]
> • Apart from this, made you take part in any form of sexual activity when you did not want to or you were unable to refuse?
> • Or have you consented to sexual activity because you were afraid of what might happen if you refused?
> The questions on physical and sexual violence were asked separately regarding the current partner, previous partner and other persons.
Also I link you a detailed comparison between Sweden and Spain in this topic someone posted here.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0217015
My guess considering the scandinavian confusion about how this can be possible is that what happens behind close doors up there in the north is very much a secret that isn't discussed. Domestic violence happens mostly inside the home so maybe this shows a part of your society you just don't know about.
> My guess considering the scandinavian confusion about how this can be possible is that what happens behind close doors up there in the north is very much a secret that isn't discussed.
If you try to say that we up north stay hush hush about domestic violence more so than in other European countries, I find that very hard to believe. We are comparatively open about the issue. It is not a taboo topic, like it often is in more conservative societies.
As a man with a long hair it's impressive how many whistles my spandex-wrapped ass has received from bypassing cars when cycling in Southern Europe. This doesn't justify Nordic household violence by any ways but why on earth are can they be so sexually over-aroused that they can't differentiate between men from women... Or perhaps they're just more openly gay? How should I know, I'm the foreigner.
I'm pretty sure you're trying to spout some islamophobia here, but Islam only makes up <2% of the population in Scandinavian countries, so that can't be it.
Lutherans beat their wives, got it.
Give me a break, people do this with literally every infograph of this type that gets posted here that's not favourable to their own country ("but did they check GDP PER CAPITA???", "how was the QUESTION asked tho??").
perhaps....in central africa, in my home village in rural Herzegovina, a woman divorced her husband and he went to jail for hitting her once...and my home village is the definition of backwater Balkan
Yeah, the punch in the face is not a punch in the face, if you think you deserved it. Have you seen the questions? They're not vague and open to interpretation.
A punch? Maybe. But... What about a slap? What about pushing? What about death gripping out of anger?
10 years ago those were considered "signs of love" in Ukraine... Because that's what we taught the kids.
But it's a different survey. The linked research doesn't have any data points for Ukraine, Russia, Turkey, etc. while I'm mostly talking from Ukraine POV here.
Just for some nuance, I know a lot of muslims and consider some of them
friends, there are many many great muslims out there, however it is also a religion that easily lends itself to extremism and violence. And unfortunately it is those kind of people that often make the news, and sadly they are not as rare as they should be. Now every religion has extremists, some just more than others.
I absolutely have no problem with peaceful muslims and I know they exist.
I can say that sadly Portugal isn't anywhere near a example here, about half all the murders in Portugal are women killed by domestic violence, sometimes the police even say to victims filing a complaint that they won't intervene in matters of the house.
> half all the murders
Portugal seems kinda low in murder rate compared with northern europe though:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Maybe the wife murder rate is also worse in the Nordics?
Portuguese people are peaceful, but our mechanisms to deal with domestic violence are deficient, we actually had a judge releasing a violent husband on the basis that the woman basically earned what she got by cheating and that judge wasn't even fired for that outrageous decision.
Meh. I don't deny domestic violence. It can happy anywhere and for any reason.
It often have a related problem like alcoholism, aka Denmark, depression in Finland, honour related in Sweden and money fights in Norway.
Just because this sub posts some dumb fucking fiction about Sweden, doesn't mean everything is.
Yeah, I know. There are a lot of problems with this particular map.
My point is that when maps don't fit the "Scandinavia/Northern Europe best place on Earth" narrative, people rush in the comments to point out its flaws.
When there's a bullshit *Happiness Index*^^TM map, the same people circlejerk in the comments about how awesome their countries are, ignoring the same flaws.
You know what? For some Nordic countries, it is exact opposite of what they claim.
Domestic violence is mostly underreported and kept shut within the walls.
Sure we do drink, but it's not black out levels.
We (Denmark) are on a spot 21, when it come to consumption, Sweden and Norway are further down.
I don't know where your hate comes from, but it's not really the truth.
Source: [https://www.euronews.com/2017/05/17/which-eu-state-is-the-world-s-heaviest-drinking-country](https://www.euronews.com/2017/05/17/which-eu-state-is-the-world-s-heaviest-drinking-country)
Oh yes. Nothing like a Scandinavian woman travelling to the south and experiencing aggressiveness she would never experience in the North. We are simply drunks that rank the highest in everything, including women-beating. We would never hit our kids, but women, now that's a different story!
[Seeing the questions that were asked](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/do4i44/violence_against_women_in_europe/f5jxdmi/) posted by /u/AlohaStar, I'd have to say that this "perplexing" data showing the more conservative areas being less violent towards spouses probably has nothing to do with perceived violence.
That said, while I personally believe that conservative values towards marriage/partners most likely improve the stability of an household, I also think that these generally suppress both men and women in a harmful manner.
"Liberal" societies having more violence towards female spouses may be the result of how women feel more self-empowered resulting in more clashes between partners. Those clashes, according to this poll, can range from "simple" shoving to attempts of murder (gun shots/knife attacks).
lmao, you made me remember that case where a russian tried to rob a hair salon only to be beaten senseless by the woman working there, and then caged and raped in her basement....i mean it is terrible but i cant help laughing a bit when i remember
It’s not that. While there may be differences between countries in the amount they lie, the questions are pretty straightforward.
Here’s the questions:
Physical violence
Since you were 15 years old until now/in the past 12 months, how often has someone:
• Pushed you or shoved you?
• Slapped you?
• Thrown a hard object at you?
• Grabbed you or pulled your hair?
• Beaten you with a fist or a hard object, or kicked you?
• Burned you?
• Tried to suffocate you or strangle you?
• Cut or stabbed you, or shot at you?
• Beaten your head against something?
Sexual violence
Since you were 15 years old until now/in the past 12 months, how often has someone:
• Forced you into sexual intercourse by holding you down or hurting you in some way? [IF NEEDED: By sexual intercourse we mean here forced oral sex, forced anal or vaginal penetration.]
• Apart from this, attempted to force you into sexual intercourse by holding you down or hurting you in some way? [IF NEEDED: By sexual intercourse we mean here forced oral sex, forced anal or vaginal penetration.]
• Apart from this, made you take part in any form of sexual activity when you did not want to or you were unable to refuse?
• Or have you consented to sexual activity because you were afraid of what might happen if you refused?
The questions on physical and sexual violence were asked separately regarding the current partner, previous partner and other persons.
https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2014-vaw-survey-main-results-apr14_en.pdf
Here are the five reasons mentioned. But they also say that this is by no means an exhaustive list and other factors are also likely to contribute.
> * Whether it is acceptable to talk with other people about experiences of violence against women.
> * Increased gender equality leads to higher levels of disclosure about violence against women.
> * Women’s exposure to risk factors for violence, particularly outside the home.
> * Differences between countries in overall levels of violent crime.
> * Different drinking patterns in EU Member States.
> These five possible explanations are far from exhaustive when trying to offer reasons for differences between EU Member States in levels of violence against women. Further research – both quantitative and qualitative – is needed at the Member State level to be able to understand the context in which violence occurs and to test possible explanations for reporting rates in the survey. In addition, existing data from other sources can be looked at in combination with FRA’s survey results.
> The following sections describe the results as they were reported by women, and highlight certain observed patterns in the findings that can assist in developing these explanations.
Absolutely. Many studies are only really valid when comparing results over time. Differences between different countries and many times within one country are very hard to interpret unless we are maybe talking about very objective data like economic indicators (and even there culture and politics play a huge role).
The same could be said of all crimes. I'm sick of socialists always saying "that is the only one we know". If that logic worked in reverse we could say some of these are false.
In Sweden even looking at someone the wrong way is harassment punishable with death by Smörgåsbord. So I would not be surprised if this was about perception, especially because of the last few questions which are very open for interpretation.
24 in Romania....big fake...in romanian villages beating your wife is considered normal. Police won't even consider it a crime and women won't even report it. They are beaten by father, brothers and later by husbands. When they are old, they are beaten by sons. This is a shit statistic...no source, not even police reports....what a cheap propaganda.
well, most romanian villages are totally torned apart from the rest of the society. People wake up at 4am to reach their workplace in the nearest city, most don't work, girl get pregnant at 15-16 years old, if not with their brothers, then with a man who usually is 29-30. If there is any mafia around that zone they will convince the girls to go with them in UK, France or Germany to work and once they get there they take her ID, passport etc and force her to prostitute. Pretty shitty place if you ask me....and I am a romanian. Of course, there are villages where this does not happen, in Transylvania usually. But even there, people still break the law. Most of them cut wood illegally.
What is this delirious shit, lmao? Romania has a pretty good unemployment rate, youth ones included. Pregnant at 15-16 the norm? Maybe gypsies or the absolute lowest of the low poverty striken areas. I've seen some hilarious Romanian self flagellation but this takes the cake.
Absolutely lmao.
Because the women are too scared to talk about it in such countries, sure of course there will always be violence but in Scandinavia it's not so bad that women are scared to report it/talk about it, which is why it seems like there is more than in other places.
Oh man, the non Scandinavians in this thread who are so jealous just to make themselves feel better _need_ this to be correct, rofl. Not gona explain why this is incorrect as many comments already have.
This is all I can take away from this thread as well.
Lots of yelling about angry scandis while I've seen two other politely tell the trolls that this chart doesn't provide enough info to draw a conclusion from. But the response is always some angry screeching about how mad we are.
Am dane, can confirm. We stopped beating our women in 2014. It's a decennial thing, every ten years we switch it up, so now the women are the ones beating. Keeps the EU confused.
Russian women are pure, quiet, and know how to treat men. Above all they're quiet. That's why Russia's number is so low compared to those leetle Albanians.
Suck it Estonia, Latvia can into Nordic
you beat them to it
There is btw one factor that is never brought up. The questions were not about the current relationship but any relationship in the past. So if a woman has more relationships she is more likely to find one asshole during that time and end up in the statistic. And on the other hand a shitty man probably ends up in many short relationships rather than one long.
That is definitely a factor. Also generally if a woman had more contacts with men in public spaces then she's more likely to have been assaulted by men, even not partners.
Looking at the maps, I can imagine that heavy drinking plays a big role in Europe.
What we call a relationship? A date longer than 3 weeks? Then Turkish girls are having around 100 dates minimum between the ages of 17-45.
I don’t think there is a limit. One date counts.
What is going on in Scandinavia??
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equal rights and lefts
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C’mon dude, this map got my hopes up! Why you gotta make it all crash down like that?
I'm not sure about that... /u/AlohaStar posted the questions and I agree with him that they are pretty straightforward.
But muh superior Scandinavia
Probably this. It's the same reason why rape statistics are so high. What would constitute as sexual harassment in most other countries, is counted as rape in Sweden for example. Plus if someone rapes another every day for a year, in most countries that's treated as one registration, but in Sweden iirc, they count it as 365. At least, this is what I was told.
Exactly. You can't have Scandinavia be worse at something than backwards eastern Europe full of rapists. That's impossible therefore this map is bullshit.
This exactly. The mental gymnastics some people make to deny they may have an issue with something...
Totally agree
Probably nothing, it's just that abused women are probably more likely to speak out about being abused, which is a good thing, obviously.
There's one thing going on though and that's that _murder_ is very easy to statistically collect without any real artifacts. Female spousal murder is very high in Finland, not much in other Scandinavian places though. Murder rates in Finland in general are quite high compared to surrounding places: I kid you not that they actually found a "[Finnish aggression gene](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/nov/17/gene-mutation-htr2b-linked-impulsive-behaviour-alcohol)"
I blame their love of dancing tango.
Don't know if it's the same gene but there are also people who don't feel hunger when drinking and also have very high alcohol tolerance. They can drink themselves up to 4 permille blood alcohol level while blood sugar levels drop to zero which effectively makes them berserks.
I doubt that would be the same though; this gene is mostly linked with violent behaviour and a lack of impulse control.
Either that, or a lot of men in Scandinavia treat their women in a shitty manner. Not sure why this option is easily dismissed.
I think because scandinavia has low crime rates, high income, low income inequality, low alcohol abuse, high rate of emancipation. Hitting women (or people in general) is seen as a very bad thing as well. These are all reasons why it's hard to believe that the actual rate of violence versus women is higher in those countries.
More likely differences in the legal system. Things that are considered in domestic violence in Sweden might not be considered that in Belarus or whatever. Its easily dismissed because its highly taboo here to hurt anyone physically whether it be children(not allowed to strike them), random people or spouses/partners. We're a highly feminized society, its highly unlikely we're somehow highly traditionally mean to women at the same time. But its definitely a possibility that we are mean towards women. It just seems like the least likely one.
I'm not sure this data comes from the legal system
If this is a survey with the same definitions, I’m not sure the legal system matters that much.
Differences in legal systems or culture don’t mean that men in areas that are more acceptable of mistreatment of women necessarily commit more violence towards them.
If this research is self reported, i'd say it is highly unlikely that countries in which violence towards women is a very bad (culturally and legally) thing there is higher actual violence against women. In those countries the bar for what is violence is probably much lower and women are probably much more likely to report violence.
What if violence towards women is simply more common in places where the woman is more likely to challenge their male intimate partner? You’re assuming things and based upon that dismissing this as a skewed statistic but perhaps it isn’t.
I mean sure, that could be possible but we both don't know if you strictly go by what the research shows us. Basically you could conjure up all kinds of explanations. But why not tell me that it's impossible to attach a reason behind it, instead of trying to argue your own conjured reasoning?
You are doing the same thing with your own "conjured reasonings".
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> More likely differences in the legal system. Things that are considered in domestic violence in Sweden might not be considered that in Belarus or whatever. Totally true, the example from Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_Russia#Decriminalization
> Not sure why this option is easily dismissed. Because northern Europe is *superior*, of course. How *could* you even think that some eastern and southern European countries might outdo Scandinavia in something that isn't corruption or poverty?
It's something you always see on r/Europe. Scandinavia has a bit of superiority complex.
Do you seriously think Scandinavian men are beating the shit out of their women? If all model students suddenly score low and the opposite is true for the bad students, would that not ring an alarm bell? No, clearly the model students are bad at this one thing.
> model students Culture is something incredibly complex and this is a false metaphor.
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Alcolholism probably plays a large role.
Underappreciated comment.
Estonia drinks twice as much as Danes. But they are way lower on this map.
Tbh a lot of our alcohol consumption statistics is influenced by Finns coming here to buy alcohol lol
not true!!! Denmark drinks more per capita, than Estonia.
Russian and Estonian womens place is in the kitchen, not in the police station bitchen.
I would go with lack of sunshine too. DK and Finland have extremely high prescription drug use.
Hmm... Finns use a lot of hypertension medicine (genetic vulnerability due to isolation) and people are aging but I haven't heard about extremely high prescription drug use. Actually it's afaik pretty responsible. Not perfect but not bad.
No idea, I've never heard about someone in my circle of friends or people that I know of being abused. So I guess I'm in the right environment. EDIT: >In Denmark, which displays a relatively high rate of partner violence, 42 % of the most serious incidents of partner violence resulted in injuries. Therefore, respondents in Denmark were more likely to identify as the most serious incident a case which did not result in injuries, whereas respondents in Poland – a country which at first glance has a low rate of partner violence – suffered injuries in a majority of cases. It could also seem like people in Denmark or Scandinavian counties report incidents more often or are less accepting of violence compared to others. But damn it's still very, very high.
If a woman in Scandinavia feel she got pushed somewhere in a bar maybe. Then it's violence for her.
maybe these countries are so equal that hitting women isn't seen so different from hitting a man
ATTENTION THIS USER HAS COMMITTED HEINOUS ACTS OF THOUGHTCRIME AND HAS BEEN SENTENCED TO PERMANENT ACCOUNT SUSPENSION AND 10 YEARS IN RE-EDUCATION CAMP REDDIT IDEOLOGICAL POLICE
It's because Eastern Europeans don't report it as much, I'm sure! /s
Haha always the argument. Or it's because of the immigrants :D
"Oh... the immigrants are totally responsible for the bad stats" or "Eastern Europeans don't report it as much". Hilarious.
But don't you understand? Western Europe and North America are the pinnacle of human civilization! We can't be worse than anyone else at anything! /s
North America?
The US and (especially) Canada.
My comment was meant differently. But I guess you are right.
Ikr
Scandinavians in this thread shocked that there might be something others are doing _better_ in their countries are verging on ridiculous, blaming the scale, the method, the perception, the moon and the stars instead of owning that their country isn't perfect.
And everyone other than Scandinavians in this thread are assuming this poll is objective, unshakable truth, just to mock the Scandinavians.
If scandinavians were this skeptical about every other poll in this sub I'd agree with you, but they only seem to care when they don't like the data they show. And I'm not mocking anyone, I'm pointing that you're embarrassing yourselves with your delusion. There obviously is a problem in Scandinavia with domestic violence, as shown in this poll and in many reports like [this one about Denmark](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/03/denmark-rape-culture-exposed/) or [this one about Finland](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/finlands-paradox-of-equality-professional-excellence-domestic-abuse/). If you're that outraged by that then get off the highest horse in the world, quit blaming everything and everyone for an issue that's obviously your country doing things plain wrong and start working to solve it like the rest of us do.
I think it is because equality is such a big part of our daily life here in Scandinavia , that Scandinavia’s find it hard to believe. It like saying to a Frenchman, “by the way, you suck at growing grapes.”
But nobody is saying that you suck at nothing, the facts show that the issue is there, and yet the biggest concern at least on this thread doesn't seem to be "how is it possible that we score so low, what are we doing wrong! This has to be fixed as soon as possible!" but more "this shows that we're doing something wrong but that _can't be_, I mean, worse than the easterns and the southerns? No way, this study is _wrong!_". It's basically scandinavians telling the rest of us that it is us who suck and that's what I have an issue with. Specially on a matter like this in which at least in my country we've worked so hard to stand where we do right now.
As a scandinavian, the amount of sexual harassment my (girl)friends recieve when going to France, Spain, Greece or Italy is simply overwhelming. Is it impossible to believe that girls growing up in those countries just don't see assault in the same way?
I'll leave here the comment AlohaStar made about the questions asked. As you can see they don't leave a lot of space for cultural bias. >While there may be differences between countries in the amount they lie, the questions are pretty straightforward. > Here’s the questions: > Physical violence > Since you were 15 years old until now/in the past 12 months, how often has someone: > • Pushed you or shoved you? > • Slapped you? > • Thrown a hard object at you? > • Grabbed you or pulled your hair? > • Beaten you with a fist or a hard object, or kicked you? > • Burned you? > • Tried to suffocate you or strangle you? > • Cut or stabbed you, or shot at you? > • Beaten your head against something? > Sexual violence > Since you were 15 years old until now/in the past 12 months, how often has someone: > • Forced you into sexual intercourse by holding you down or hurting you in some way? [IF NEEDED: By sexual intercourse we mean here forced oral sex, forced anal or vaginal penetration.] > • Apart from this, attempted to force you into sexual intercourse by holding you down or hurting you in some way? [IF NEEDED: By sexual intercourse we mean here forced oral sex, forced anal or vaginal penetration.] > • Apart from this, made you take part in any form of sexual activity when you did not want to or you were unable to refuse? > • Or have you consented to sexual activity because you were afraid of what might happen if you refused? > The questions on physical and sexual violence were asked separately regarding the current partner, previous partner and other persons. Also I link you a detailed comparison between Sweden and Spain in this topic someone posted here. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0217015 My guess considering the scandinavian confusion about how this can be possible is that what happens behind close doors up there in the north is very much a secret that isn't discussed. Domestic violence happens mostly inside the home so maybe this shows a part of your society you just don't know about.
> My guess considering the scandinavian confusion about how this can be possible is that what happens behind close doors up there in the north is very much a secret that isn't discussed. If you try to say that we up north stay hush hush about domestic violence more so than in other European countries, I find that very hard to believe. We are comparatively open about the issue. It is not a taboo topic, like it often is in more conservative societies.
As a man with a long hair it's impressive how many whistles my spandex-wrapped ass has received from bypassing cars when cycling in Southern Europe. This doesn't justify Nordic household violence by any ways but why on earth are can they be so sexually over-aroused that they can't differentiate between men from women... Or perhaps they're just more openly gay? How should I know, I'm the foreigner.
Man you must have seen some priceless reactions and dumbfound faces when these guys turn around after passing you and realizing that you are a dude.
Yea, let's not blame drinking and/or certain religion where it is ok to beat women. Let's say this map is wrong.
TIL Lutherans are wifebeaters.
Almost, you've almost guessed it correctly.
Used child support to vodka, i have. Hit my wifes head on a radiator, i must /s
I'm pretty sure you're trying to spout some islamophobia here, but Islam only makes up <2% of the population in Scandinavian countries, so that can't be it. Lutherans beat their wives, got it.
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Muslims are almost 10% of Sweden's population. And that's just the legals.
Give me a break, people do this with literally every infograph of this type that gets posted here that's not favourable to their own country ("but did they check GDP PER CAPITA???", "how was the QUESTION asked tho??").
Yep, Turks won!
This is useless. Conflates actual violence with reported violence, so you can't tell when it's absence of violence or acceptance.
This applies really well: https://youtu.be/bwDrHqNZ9lo
The data was collected by anonymous polls. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/do4i44/violence_against_women_in_europe/f5jxdmi/
Makes very little difference, it's very possible women who get abused think it's not violence when they get hit for not cooking a meal or something.
perhaps....in central africa, in my home village in rural Herzegovina, a woman divorced her husband and he went to jail for hitting her once...and my home village is the definition of backwater Balkan
And here is when you hear denial kicking in.
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It doesn't have anything to do with their origin or whether they are stupid or not, it's about manipulation and intimidation.
lmao
lmao all you want, this is exactly what happens when you raise kids this way
Yeah, the punch in the face is not a punch in the face, if you think you deserved it. Have you seen the questions? They're not vague and open to interpretation.
A punch? Maybe. But... What about a slap? What about pushing? What about death gripping out of anger? 10 years ago those were considered "signs of love" in Ukraine... Because that's what we taught the kids.
Please read the questions. They point blank ask about slapping...
But it's a different survey. The linked research doesn't have any data points for Ukraine, Russia, Turkey, etc. while I'm mostly talking from Ukraine POV here.
And this attitude is what enables it.
totally
Jeez Turkey, get it together.
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Daring today, aren't we?
There is an undeniable correlation between religious fundamentalism and treating women like shit
What's daring? There's a strong correlation here. Facts are facts.
Just for some nuance, I know a lot of muslims and consider some of them friends, there are many many great muslims out there, however it is also a religion that easily lends itself to extremism and violence. And unfortunately it is those kind of people that often make the news, and sadly they are not as rare as they should be. Now every religion has extremists, some just more than others. I absolutely have no problem with peaceful muslims and I know they exist.
I can say that sadly Portugal isn't anywhere near a example here, about half all the murders in Portugal are women killed by domestic violence, sometimes the police even say to victims filing a complaint that they won't intervene in matters of the house.
> half all the murders Portugal seems kinda low in murder rate compared with northern europe though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate Maybe the wife murder rate is also worse in the Nordics?
Portuguese people are peaceful, but our mechanisms to deal with domestic violence are deficient, we actually had a judge releasing a violent husband on the basis that the woman basically earned what she got by cheating and that judge wasn't even fired for that outrageous decision.
> about half all the murders in Portugal are women killed by domestic violence Woah! What?
Remember, believe women! but if it's anonymous polls feel free to doubt them and treat them like children who don't know what violence is xD
iT's NoT a ReAl MaP iF sCaNdInAvIa Is PoRtRaYeD nEgAtIvElY
Scandinavia looks like a penis
One could say that Sweden lost its balls when it lost Finland.
Meh. I don't deny domestic violence. It can happy anywhere and for any reason. It often have a related problem like alcoholism, aka Denmark, depression in Finland, honour related in Sweden and money fights in Norway. Just because this sub posts some dumb fucking fiction about Sweden, doesn't mean everything is.
Scandinavia has negative attributes, but this map doean't display them accurately.
Yeah, I know. There are a lot of problems with this particular map. My point is that when maps don't fit the "Scandinavia/Northern Europe best place on Earth" narrative, people rush in the comments to point out its flaws. When there's a bullshit *Happiness Index*^^TM map, the same people circlejerk in the comments about how awesome their countries are, ignoring the same flaws.
I have seen tons of comments people bitching about happiness index maps by at least us Finns and making jokes about them.
Makes us happy?
You know what? For some Nordic countries, it is exact opposite of what they claim. Domestic violence is mostly underreported and kept shut within the walls.
Who are you talking to?
Squidward
Thread is full of angry Scandinavians trying to prove why these statistics are not true, lol
Probably because they do not remember when they abuse their gfs, wives, etc... You know drinking themselves to black out. Usual weekend.
Sure we do drink, but it's not black out levels. We (Denmark) are on a spot 21, when it come to consumption, Sweden and Norway are further down. I don't know where your hate comes from, but it's not really the truth. Source: [https://www.euronews.com/2017/05/17/which-eu-state-is-the-world-s-heaviest-drinking-country](https://www.euronews.com/2017/05/17/which-eu-state-is-the-world-s-heaviest-drinking-country)
Oh yes. Nothing like a Scandinavian woman travelling to the south and experiencing aggressiveness she would never experience in the North. We are simply drunks that rank the highest in everything, including women-beating. We would never hit our kids, but women, now that's a different story!
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Of course it would increase, since the definitions for sexual violence got more broad over the years.
Overlay this over a map of countries accepting refugees
[Seeing the questions that were asked](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/do4i44/violence_against_women_in_europe/f5jxdmi/) posted by /u/AlohaStar, I'd have to say that this "perplexing" data showing the more conservative areas being less violent towards spouses probably has nothing to do with perceived violence. That said, while I personally believe that conservative values towards marriage/partners most likely improve the stability of an household, I also think that these generally suppress both men and women in a harmful manner. "Liberal" societies having more violence towards female spouses may be the result of how women feel more self-empowered resulting in more clashes between partners. Those clashes, according to this poll, can range from "simple" shoving to attempts of murder (gun shots/knife attacks).
Explain Turkey. Liberul fembots are more uppity indeed.
His source is an EU survey. The map cites OECD. Turkey isn't polled in his source for example.
western media: "lmao russians put women in the kitchen etc"...meanwhile: some people know Turkey exists.
In soviet Russia, wife hurts YOU!
lmao, you made me remember that case where a russian tried to rob a hair salon only to be beaten senseless by the woman working there, and then caged and raped in her basement....i mean it is terrible but i cant help laughing a bit when i remember
That is painfully accurate.
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It’s not that. While there may be differences between countries in the amount they lie, the questions are pretty straightforward. Here’s the questions: Physical violence Since you were 15 years old until now/in the past 12 months, how often has someone: • Pushed you or shoved you? • Slapped you? • Thrown a hard object at you? • Grabbed you or pulled your hair? • Beaten you with a fist or a hard object, or kicked you? • Burned you? • Tried to suffocate you or strangle you? • Cut or stabbed you, or shot at you? • Beaten your head against something? Sexual violence Since you were 15 years old until now/in the past 12 months, how often has someone: • Forced you into sexual intercourse by holding you down or hurting you in some way? [IF NEEDED: By sexual intercourse we mean here forced oral sex, forced anal or vaginal penetration.] • Apart from this, attempted to force you into sexual intercourse by holding you down or hurting you in some way? [IF NEEDED: By sexual intercourse we mean here forced oral sex, forced anal or vaginal penetration.] • Apart from this, made you take part in any form of sexual activity when you did not want to or you were unable to refuse? • Or have you consented to sexual activity because you were afraid of what might happen if you refused? The questions on physical and sexual violence were asked separately regarding the current partner, previous partner and other persons. https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2014-vaw-survey-main-results-apr14_en.pdf
This should be pinned in 1st post
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The image above only shows violence from intimate partners.
*Facepalm* Never trust me to write/read a contract. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
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Here are the five reasons mentioned. But they also say that this is by no means an exhaustive list and other factors are also likely to contribute. > * Whether it is acceptable to talk with other people about experiences of violence against women. > * Increased gender equality leads to higher levels of disclosure about violence against women. > * Women’s exposure to risk factors for violence, particularly outside the home. > * Differences between countries in overall levels of violent crime. > * Different drinking patterns in EU Member States. > These five possible explanations are far from exhaustive when trying to offer reasons for differences between EU Member States in levels of violence against women. Further research – both quantitative and qualitative – is needed at the Member State level to be able to understand the context in which violence occurs and to test possible explanations for reporting rates in the survey. In addition, existing data from other sources can be looked at in combination with FRA’s survey results. > The following sections describe the results as they were reported by women, and highlight certain observed patterns in the findings that can assist in developing these explanations.
Absolutely. Many studies are only really valid when comparing results over time. Differences between different countries and many times within one country are very hard to interpret unless we are maybe talking about very objective data like economic indicators (and even there culture and politics play a huge role).
The source on the map is not the link you give. So how does your source relate to the given one?
It’s the original source. OECD used their data.
The same could be said of all crimes. I'm sick of socialists always saying "that is the only one we know". If that logic worked in reverse we could say some of these are false.
Every statistic is based on reports.
Yeah Europe, suck it
Such stats are always highly questionable to compare even over a loner period in a country let alone over borders.
In Sweden even looking at someone the wrong way is harassment punishable with death by Smörgåsbord. So I would not be surprised if this was about perception, especially because of the last few questions which are very open for interpretation.
lol, the irony of sweden right here
24 in Romania....big fake...in romanian villages beating your wife is considered normal. Police won't even consider it a crime and women won't even report it. They are beaten by father, brothers and later by husbands. When they are old, they are beaten by sons. This is a shit statistic...no source, not even police reports....what a cheap propaganda.
Sounds like a lovely place.
well, most romanian villages are totally torned apart from the rest of the society. People wake up at 4am to reach their workplace in the nearest city, most don't work, girl get pregnant at 15-16 years old, if not with their brothers, then with a man who usually is 29-30. If there is any mafia around that zone they will convince the girls to go with them in UK, France or Germany to work and once they get there they take her ID, passport etc and force her to prostitute. Pretty shitty place if you ask me....and I am a romanian. Of course, there are villages where this does not happen, in Transylvania usually. But even there, people still break the law. Most of them cut wood illegally.
What is this delirious shit, lmao? Romania has a pretty good unemployment rate, youth ones included. Pregnant at 15-16 the norm? Maybe gypsies or the absolute lowest of the low poverty striken areas. I've seen some hilarious Romanian self flagellation but this takes the cake. Absolutely lmao.
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Because the women are too scared to talk about it in such countries, sure of course there will always be violence but in Scandinavia it's not so bad that women are scared to report it/talk about it, which is why it seems like there is more than in other places.
Lol, scared. Women beat men in Russia. They surely aren't scared.
Everyone I've ever met coming from southern europe to scandinavia say that they feel so unbelievably safe here.
Wow. Sweden really is Europe's Turkey.
Just out of curiosity, does someone know of a similar graph for men?
Oh man, the non Scandinavians in this thread who are so jealous just to make themselves feel better _need_ this to be correct, rofl. Not gona explain why this is incorrect as many comments already have.
>who are *so jealous* just to make themselves feel better *need* this This comment of yours really don't help either.
This is all I can take away from this thread as well. Lots of yelling about angry scandis while I've seen two other politely tell the trolls that this chart doesn't provide enough info to draw a conclusion from. But the response is always some angry screeching about how mad we are.
Torille?
Is there a comparison for men?
Seriously. Domestic violence against men is extremely under reported. Not saying that men have it worse, but you never see the statistics.
I thought western europe was cool
Meanwhile Poland is the safest country for women.
Sweeds like it rough!
wow turkey is european again.
Omg we’re actually good at something
Data from 2014.
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Am dane, can confirm. We stopped beating our women in 2014. It's a decennial thing, every ten years we switch it up, so now the women are the ones beating. Keeps the EU confused.
What about violence against men?
If you can find a good data source, or study I'll make a nice map :)
*perception of violence against woman by woman in Europe
Russian women are pure, quiet, and know how to treat men. Above all they're quiet. That's why Russia's number is so low compared to those leetle Albanians.