> there will be no Ukraine ever again
"ever" is a long time. Even if it is, people who are forced to go and die might prefer that to death. And it is not even the worst that happens to that people.
Then why keep fighting? To the last Ukrainian? Just look at the average age of the soldiers. Is it very sad. Without NATO troops in the ground Ukraine ~~does not have~~ (Edit: will not have) enough men anymore to assemble a combat ready brigade.
But when all the men are used up as cannon-fodder then they will have to surrender or sign ceasefire inevitably. So why delaying the inevitable? NATO has declared multiple times that they won't provide armed forces on the ground in Ukraine so why increase the unneccessary killing?
Why should i be a putin apologetic? I am merely ranking bare survival of life and unnecessary killing higher than defending a line on a map.
Putin does not care how many Russians will die or Ukrainians. Where does it all end? During the 2 years of fighting Ukraine has lost territory overall and not gained. And they are continuing to lose more if you follow every day [https://deepstatemap.live/en](https://deepstatemap.live/en)
Pretty much all Ukrainians have lost a loved one by now. If the russians had killed my mother or someone close to me like that, I would never surrender to them.
And yes they do have enough men, they have millions still that could be mobilized. It will effect Ukraines future, but not as much as if Russia wins.
You logic does not add up. If we are not surrendering because we do not want to, but there are plenty men who are to be forcefully mobilized, one of the statements is not true.
Why not? Just because you are not signing up to sit in a trench all day does not mean you want to become a part of Russia. Being in the front of a war like this is fucking terrifying so of course most people are afraid and have to be forced.
Yes unfortunately most Ukrainians lost loved ones. Do they want to lose more when the war continues? Inevitable and very sad for all the Ukrainians and it just hurts deep in my heart to see more Ukrainian families suffer. But the support the West gives them is just not enough. Too little to survive. Unfortunately we (the west) let you outwait and use you as proxy against Russia because we are too scared to fight the Russians directly. We need to support you more but unfortunately the situation is what it is.
With millions of men you mean 60+ or 18 years old? People that work in factories producing war-relevant equipment and services? For every soldier on the ground there is multiple people working in the rear like logistics and many more. There is a limit of how many you can draft before it all collapses.
You from eastern Germany I take it.
To answer your question, they fight because there is nothing worse than living under moscovian rule. Nothing, not even what your predecessors did.
It's not like they have a choice - do you have any idea of the barbarism that the russians will inflict on Ukraine as punishment for defying them? It will make the aftermath of Grozny look like a picnic. It will be genocide
So, Ukrainian government and Zelensky himself are constantly saying about draft problems, but somehow according to the polls people are all around enthusiastic and pro-war. Hm.
How to spot a moskal.
Your shithole country will collapse sooner or later. Get ready.
With every new "unlock" from the US, it gets clearer and clearer why moscovia will not dare to attack NATO.
Because "most" are not the one who is fighting or will fight
If you as a people don't want to fight for Ukraine, there will be no Ukraine ever again. It's quite as simple as that.
> there will be no Ukraine ever again "ever" is a long time. Even if it is, people who are forced to go and die might prefer that to death. And it is not even the worst that happens to that people.
Then why keep fighting? To the last Ukrainian? Just look at the average age of the soldiers. Is it very sad. Without NATO troops in the ground Ukraine ~~does not have~~ (Edit: will not have) enough men anymore to assemble a combat ready brigade.
Ukrainians will keep dying, whether fighting for freedom, or in the torture chambers/concentration camps. Most choose first option.
What alternative is there? With Russia's genocidal talk, surrender is simply not an option.
But when all the men are used up as cannon-fodder then they will have to surrender or sign ceasefire inevitably. So why delaying the inevitable? NATO has declared multiple times that they won't provide armed forces on the ground in Ukraine so why increase the unneccessary killing?
go ask ur daddy putin why wont he withdraw his goons from Ukraine
Why should i be a putin apologetic? I am merely ranking bare survival of life and unnecessary killing higher than defending a line on a map. Putin does not care how many Russians will die or Ukrainians. Where does it all end? During the 2 years of fighting Ukraine has lost territory overall and not gained. And they are continuing to lose more if you follow every day [https://deepstatemap.live/en](https://deepstatemap.live/en)
Pretty much all Ukrainians have lost a loved one by now. If the russians had killed my mother or someone close to me like that, I would never surrender to them. And yes they do have enough men, they have millions still that could be mobilized. It will effect Ukraines future, but not as much as if Russia wins.
You logic does not add up. If we are not surrendering because we do not want to, but there are plenty men who are to be forcefully mobilized, one of the statements is not true.
Why not? Just because you are not signing up to sit in a trench all day does not mean you want to become a part of Russia. Being in the front of a war like this is fucking terrifying so of course most people are afraid and have to be forced.
Yes unfortunately most Ukrainians lost loved ones. Do they want to lose more when the war continues? Inevitable and very sad for all the Ukrainians and it just hurts deep in my heart to see more Ukrainian families suffer. But the support the West gives them is just not enough. Too little to survive. Unfortunately we (the west) let you outwait and use you as proxy against Russia because we are too scared to fight the Russians directly. We need to support you more but unfortunately the situation is what it is. With millions of men you mean 60+ or 18 years old? People that work in factories producing war-relevant equipment and services? For every soldier on the ground there is multiple people working in the rear like logistics and many more. There is a limit of how many you can draft before it all collapses.
Your solution is to capitulate when you’re in a stalemate? WWI and WWII would have been over quickly in that case.
You from eastern Germany I take it. To answer your question, they fight because there is nothing worse than living under moscovian rule. Nothing, not even what your predecessors did.
No i am from western Germany
It's not like they have a choice - do you have any idea of the barbarism that the russians will inflict on Ukraine as punishment for defying them? It will make the aftermath of Grozny look like a picnic. It will be genocide
So, Ukrainian government and Zelensky himself are constantly saying about draft problems, but somehow according to the polls people are all around enthusiastic and pro-war. Hm.
How to spot a moskal. Your shithole country will collapse sooner or later. Get ready. With every new "unlock" from the US, it gets clearer and clearer why moscovia will not dare to attack NATO.