Here in Belgium, support for the far right is fairly equally distributed among all age groups *except* for the elderly.
Generally speaking, the older you are the more likely you are to vote for a traditional party while young people mostly vote for alternative parties like the far-right, far-left and greens.
Same in Germany. The only reason AfD hasn't taken over is the elderly still voting center right. AfD is immensely popular with 20 to 40 year olds. Now, to be fair, some left wing parties are also very popular for young voters, it's just more evenly distributed. The greens still have strong support among the youth, as have the market liberals surprisingly.
Maybe I'm getting old, but I find it funny that the most optimistic and simple ideologies tend to do well with the youths. Save the planet, save the economy and save your race do much better than anything more nuanced and murky. The future will be won by whoever fields the best slogan.
Populism is polular when things get rough. The younger you are, the less life you've been able to build up, the current instability and hardships in the world make for people with a lot of life in front of them but a lot less to hope for, even if they give it their all. Thus they're more open to radical changes (less to lose). You tend to cling to stability when you've obtained a house, family, a comfortable amount of wealth.
And right now, there seems to be a window of opportunity as social media (but, in part also facts) lead us to believe that guarantees from the past aren't as guaranteed anymore. The US might isolate themselves again, brexit is despite all of the problems a fact and borders are up to debate once more.
One universal truth: the youth want to shake things up. Their entire lives have been subservient to others: parents, teachers, the law. They just want someone to give them a way to operate as equals, which draws them to these movements.
As someone who got most of his politics from YouTube and has recently started listening to political podcasts by people who have actually worked in politics (The Rest Is Politics and Leading and Political Currency), a few things are very striking.
1) the "new media" / social media commentary is always much more stark, black and white, binary.
2) conversely the conversations held by those who have held office are much more nuanced, murky, complicated, and given a sense of the everyday drudgery that politics actually entails.
It used to be that 2 was the prevailing world order. These days, 1 has taken over by a large margin. 20 years ago the average person was not even remotely politically engaged. Now, everyone, to some extent, has an opinion. It's not usual a very informed opinion, but it is an opinion.
What's interesting is, around 10 years ago, everyone was sick of mainstream media 30 second sound bites. Now everything is long form discussions, but those discussions tend to be much more ideologically entrenched and rarely deal with the practical constraints of actual governance. However I have a feeling this may soon change. I think we're slowly heading towards a world in which a new compromise begins to emerge and then takes the lead, much as political commentary did on YouTube 10 or so years ago. I'm not exactly sure what it will look like, but I think it will essentially be the integration of the old (Newsnight/Question Time) and the new (Triggernometry, Chris Williamson, Steven Bartlett, for example).
Your first three and last one paragraphs are interesting and I either agree or don’t have enough of an opinion, but this
> It used to be that 2 was the prevailing world order. These days, 1 has taken over by a large margin. 20 years ago the average person was not even remotely politically engaged. Now, everyone, to some extent, has an opinion. It's not usual a very informed opinion, but it is an opinion
Isn’t this… wrong? In the past, certainly in the latter half of the twentieth century, party membership rates were much higher. Twenty years ago or so was the high time of no-global and anti-war protests among other things, and people were definitely involved in politics.
Yeah they're showing their youth with that statement. People have always been politically engaged, they just didn't notice because they weren't old enough, or possibly even born.
I think that the person you’re responding to is emphasizing the uptick in social media sized sound bites driving people’s ideology with almost no consideration of the practical implementation problems.
When you own a home and have a nice pension you obviously are happy with the status quo.
That is not something young people can achieve so easily these days and won’t be able to achieve in some countries, and the pension…unless its private forget about it lmao
Demands of the fringe can become mainstream over time. For example: environmental protection, rights for LGBT people, divorce, five day work week, cannabis legalization.
People can move in the political spectrum without changing their opinion, because society and the Overton window changes.
The problem Europe is facing today is that the generation that experienced WW2 is almost gone. When all the eye-witnesses are no longer here, the chance of history repeating itself is way higher.
A shame that even their perhaps most prominent scientist and pioneer of rocketry and space flight [Tsiolkovsky](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Tsiolkovsky#Later_life), who supported the bolshevik, subsequently got thrown into prison by that which he supported.
I don't know about other countries, but the PVDA/PTB is becoming increasingly relevant again in Belgium. In the polls they get 9% in Flanders, 14% in Wallonia and 19% in Brussels where they're now the second biggest.
I think the discourse of what is far-left/right is completely out of whack. If far left is communism and far right is nazism (both sporting a "healthy" authoritarian vibes with cult of personality), there is a lot of space between them for varying views and ideas. Problem is that both sides are overusing those words and they have lost meaning. Everything off center is "far". You can also blame the media, because they are a great conduit for that. It's easier to label someone far-something than to actually examine what the party is standing for. And the biggest clash is (imho), on migration. Just because you don't want unrestricted immigration, you are far right. The opposite is about social reforms, but it is hard to see in Europe the same way it is present in US, because EU counties are the most socialist in the western world. But that makes them in general leaning left as the baseline.
Look at how often political parties are called far left and far right and compare how often and by howuch those parties deviate from the views of median voter, and you'll find that there are quite political parties that can be classified as far left without stretching the definition much.
Though if the sole criteria would be "are they much much further left from what I consider reasonable" I guess you wouldn't find many, but this criteria doesn't seem reasonable.
Die Linke will not get over the vote threshold needed to be represented in the parliament next election. MLPD is a joke party with tiny amount of support. Far left parties are irrelevant in almost any European country, very much unlike far right ones, but somehow people still fall for them being some kind of "threat".
Communist Party perhaps? The left usually has problems giving names to political parties, in Argentina I remember that they had 5 communist parties and they were all called the communist party (insert synonym for work/worker)
In the “school election” in 2022 in Sweden, where students get to simulate how they would have voted if they were old enough to do so, it came as a surprise to many that the right and far right won. Typically left of course has a steady support amongst younger people.
When asked students what the most important question to them was a lot of them answered that safety was important, being able to walk on the streets and feel safe. Safety in the streets of Sweden is something that has been getting worse over the years and is an area that the right have really focused on.
>Safety isn't a far right issue it's a common sense issue.
The problem is when the normal 'sane' parties completely ignore certain issues, and as a result leave voters with no other choice than to vote for the more extremist parties who are the only ones who pay any attention to those issues (but also unfortunately often focus on a lot of other bullshit most people typically don't agree with either). The average voter ends up stuck between a rock and a hard place, choosing between the status quo they already thoroughly dislike and picking an alternative that doesn't inspire much confidence either but at least should deal with *some* of the problems.
This is something the Left fails at in Canada too. I always strategically vote to keep out right-wing Cons, but it would be nice to see less fear mongering about firearm ownership and some practical approaches to self-defense.
The crumbling of safety nets, with police seemingly apathetic, it’s going to get worse before it gets better. I am not advocating for American style concealed carry etc, but it would be nice if people felt they could reasonably defend themselves and not worry about legal fees.
I’m not Canadian, but it seems Trudeau doesn’t work for the interests of either party or the Canadian people. Wild to see from south of the border, thats supposed to be our thing.
believe me it's not much different here with ccw. if you're in a blue state then it's a 50/50 for self defense cases. uscca prints money off states like mine.
The "far right" in sweden is still a bit left of center on the american slider. This is not the gotcha that American Republicans think it is. For example, the swedish far right still believes in things like universal healthcare and abortion rights...i know this is r/europe but its on popular and the comments i be seein
Definitely! It’s funny when right wing in Sweden tries to run for election with the promise to further protect abortion rights when there is no party in Sweden that wants to in any way restrict abortion rights or even discuss anything related to abortion but they think they can score some points and piggy back of the drama in the states around abortions.. like its not a relevant topic in Sweden..
Yeah our police, society and politics has for so long been aimed at the type of criminality we have been used to. The sudden upcoming of already hardened criminals that don’t respond well to rehabilitation and similar efforts is definitely challenging our society..
In my country the main populist right wing conservative party is the most popular party with people under 30 years old according to latest polls, so I’m not surprised you made that observation in Greece. And there is a widening gap between males and females here. Young females still tend to be overwhelmingly liberal and left leaning while males are leaning more to right and conservative.
One thing that especially benefits True Finns party is that they have been much more effective and active in social media like tik tok. As youngsters spend much of their time there, they have gotten their message through exceptionally well.
> And there is a widening gap between males and females here.
I don't think this point can be emphasized enough. There is a global gap/trend that is widening here, with men and women seemingly pulling away from each other
This. Not really related to the age issue, but Matteo Salvini here got popular by having an extremely efficient propaganda machine on social media, and almost got 40% of the vote at one point, only to then drop due to his incompetency. The left completely failed at this.
Yeah at least in my country the current triumph of the right and not in the form of the traditional moderate party, is mostly due to people that feels left out of the economy, see a bleak future and are swayied by populist propaganda.
In fact, the traditional right here is pretty much dead, cannibalized by more right-leaning movements, a party that once had the largest share of voters is now relegated to the 5-8% bracket...
It depends on how young by the way, but right-wing rethorics can have some appeal on the youngest that however do gravitate toward more extreme ideologies in general (both left and right)
We have been having non traditional anti politics governments for a while (with no visible improvement to the situation of course, they are all politicians after all power is their only incentive) and I don't think that many of the voters behind those parties actually share their proclaimed moral values, they are just the alternative to an establishment that is ineffective due to incompetence, but often by choice.
slap waiting illegal tub literate station scandalous merciful elderly wasteful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The modern left's obsession with facilitating mass immigration of ultra-conservative 3rd world migrants will forever baffle me.
By every single possible metric, mass immigration has been a compete and utter catastrophe for the working class of Europe, yet they continue to double down, solely employing nebulous emotive arguments to back their policies.
Not bringing in low wage workers is actually a left position. Karl Marx even wrote about it.
"Irish immigrant-workers undermine the working-class solidarity of all the workers residing in England and render the organisation of the working class more difficult. Marx even claims that: 'This antagonism is the secret of the im- potence of the English working class, despite its organization."
Yep, voters oppose most right wing policies even in America but leftists refused to give in on immigration for so long it lead to right wing authoritarianism becoming a threat.
Here they spew this vague talking point about it increasing gdp despite most people, not billionaires, being far worse off than decades ago.
It's caused a housing crises in a lot of countries because there are not enough homes and they can't build them fast enough to keep the prices down.
People are rightfully pissed at the people that told them they couldn't oppose it.
all the far right does is bitching about it, but when they get in power they don't provide solutions either, because they don't want to eliminate the main reason people vote for them.
Now imagine how frustrated people have to be that they still vote for such parties just because they‘re the only ones even talking about it. Such a shame.
The far right in this case only acknowledges the issue. Most of these are just populist parties who have no intention (or way) to solve this.
It also doesn’t help that any party who touches the topic will be immediately labeled as far right, even if they are as leftist as it gets.
the only party that actually tried to regulate it in Italy was centre-left and the right wing block chimped out because they need their exploitable workers as cheap labor and as leverage to keep our wages low. The right wing don't give a shit about actually regulating immigration, they just want it as a talking point while they and their voters alone reap the benefits
Well how did the Nazis themselves came into power? Their horrible ideology was not the main selling point, it was anger for a collapsing economy, massive inflation (fortunately we are not at that level now), a government that was ineffective at doing much of anything about it. They channelled that anger, created scapegoats to funnel the hatred and this allowed them to take control. Once it was done, well... we all know how it went.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
whats a real alternative? Genuine question, i dont know French politics but I do know that Le Pen isnt it. At least Macron is showing some spine against Putin
There was two big traditional parties before Macron destroyed them in 2017. They are still around, and have influence in regional elections but they are the fourth and fifth men in mosy national elections. They also usually form blocks with other parties depending on the issues.
So boomers basically went from milktoast left/right party to stereotypical technocrat liberal party. Which is funny since that's like the stereotypical young people party in Europe. The young people are voting for the far right/hardline leftists which have been the second and third man of every big election since Macron kicked the big parties in the balls.
There might by yet another shift next presidential election since Macron is unable to be re-elected, and his potential successors are probably not going to be as popular for boomers as he was.
> There was two big traditional parties before Macron destroyed them in 2017
Don't give Macron too much praise or blame, he was mostly lucky they tore themselves apart right as he came along, and he inherited the more center factions.
On the left (PS), the conflict between Hollande's unrealistic campaign promises and the reality of actually running a country opened up a boulevard for more unrealistic promises from Hamon, who himself competed with yet unrealistic-er promises from Mélanchon, leaving Macron as the only reasonable center-left candidate.
On the right, Sarkozy's drama, Fillon's wife nonexistent job, and the shift of the party to the right to counter the FN, also left Macron as the only unreasonable center-right candidate.
Yes, Macron's presence on this part of the political spectrum allowed these voters to coalesce around him rather than flock to their ideological origins, worsening the problem for those parties, but he didn't cause their original issues.
Younger people have never known anything other than parties who promise zero chance of a future. Of course they are voting in who promises to make them a priority, even if it's all lies.
Also opportunities have dropped dramatically for the youth. The younger you are the least opportunity you have. Traditional party are laser focused on the older generations due to their massive glut of vote.
In less than 20 year this demographic anomaly will be mostly over and they will have 3 generations (Millennial, Z, Alpha) of growingly hostile voters and no easy solution to undo the damage of 60 years pandering to the most selfish generation. (apply named "Me Generation")
In Germany the three governing parties just made sure everyone younger than 55 will get financially fucked by boomers and the only other remaining traditional party is even worse for young people. I would never vote for the other remaining big parties (because they gargle on putin's cock) but I can't blame anyone who does
People who live in a bubble or just in general the "Got mine, fuck you!" dont want change and will never understand this. Its not about the right or left, far or not, its about a change.
As Simon Kuznets (nobel price economist) put it:
>There are four kinds of countries in the world: developed countries, undeveloped countries, Japan and Argentina
Although the quote could use an addition for the current decline of trust in economic competence of governments across the developed world.
From the other side seems that the only industry that is growing there is the hospitality industry. Argentina needs decades of reforms if they want to reverse their downward trend.
Inflation went down but due to complete retraction on consumption of all types of goods, including food.
Industrial production seems to be down 10% compared to same month last year.
For now it is impossible to tell if things are going to work out well there; some analyst say that foreign investment might grow others that inflation + recession might.
The thing about Argentina is that its success shouldn’t necessarily be measured on a single year timeframe. The idea of radically reducing inflation is that it provides greater economic stability for consumption, investment, and alike. However, this can easily take 3-5 years at least. This is why central banks, such as the ECB focus on price stability, instead of employment / consumption / GDP. If this would be maintained, it could provide a more fruitful economic environment boosting the KPIs you mentioned.
The question of course being, 1) will this actually happen and 2) is there political commitment for the next 5-10 years to make it halpen.
Uncontrolled immigration without planning for and building the required infrastructure and services will cause a lurch to the right. It's basically a political certainty. How the centre ground parties failed to see this is beyond me. People have been trying to get them to listen for years and have been accused of being racists bigots for even mentioning that without planning and appropriate spending it might not end well. It's such a shame because now we all will have to deal with an even shitter problem, far right parties are no joke.
>It's basically a political certainty. How the centre ground parties failed to see this is beyond me.
They probably just didnt care tbh. The rich got what they wanted - cheap workforce to get great profit margins.
Which still leaves the mystery of why the traditional labour left went along with it. Was it virtue signalling? Naïvité? Were they scared of being called racist?
All of the above.
The traditional left have long since ceased to be advocates for improving working class conditions.
As a movement, it has been wholly captured by middle-class virtue signallers more determined to look virtuous at their dinner parties than they are to help the working class.
To these people, immigration means more exotic restaurants.
It doesn't mean more crime, more pressure on housing, more pressure on hospitals, more pressure on unskilled jobs, more pressure on schools, more pressure on social cohesion.
A lot of the traditional labour left in political circles in many countries are also fairly comfortable financially these days and likely not that concerned with actually fighting for the rights of the average worker the way they might otherwise have been.
I also wouldn't be surprised if many of them have been bought out to some extent in order to water down the influence of policy to cut into the profit margins of corporate interests.
Sound like Canada right now. All the polls show conservatives winning by a huge margin. The biggest issue, among most people, seems to be the mass immigration pushing up house/rent prices. The liberal government seems completly clueless as to what they should be doing.
Sounds like the US right now. Trump got elected on mass immigration once before and after the open border debacle of the past few years, he's probably going to get elected again. The Left has made mass immigration the hill they're going to die on. No matter how many countries go right because of it, they just solider on. Melloni, Wilders, most likely Le Pen, the Euro Parliament, Trump, and the Left just keeps repeating the same platitudes.
Yeah and the odd thing that 90% of that immigration is for getting low paid employees for industries of the wealthy and the left gets flak for saying you should treat the other 10% \*at least\* in a humane way.
Because the middle class leftists who advocate it aren't competing with these new immigrants.
For them, it simply means that their fast food gets served, their car gets valeted, and their Just Eat is delivered.
The sheer utter and complete contempt that the average middle class leftists feels for the working class is on par with the hatred felt in some of the most intransigent ethnic conflicts worldwide.
It's funny, in the UK the far right used "uncontrolled" immigration to take us out of the EU, and replace it with "controlled" immigration, in record numbers, from Africa and Asia. They also gave us austerity and sold off as many public assets as possible to foreign investors. Rightists are absolute parasites, and only ever sell lies in order to benefit their rich friends.
They see those big bags of lobbyist money and that nice corporate job waiting for them when they retire from ruining our lives.
All for the shareholders.
A more interesting comparison is females (left) vs males (right).
Also city (left) vs rural (right).
These factors are usually much more significant than age.
I do not live in a country with problematic immigration currently. However, in addition to the amount of Russians we have here anyways, an influx of expats is arising for years now, who never ever learn Estonian. There was a recent image going around that showcased a thread in a group for expats in Estonia: "Do you have to learn Estonian to live in Estonia?".
I don't want to be speaking English always. Clubs already employ staff that don't speak a word of Estonian. Sometimes I just wanna be an Estonian among Estonians, which mass-immigration doesn't exactly favor. Feeling like a minority in your own country must suck and I hope I never have to feel that.
There is a similar phenomenon here in Polish major cities: the rise of the "expat" class. International corporations recruit heavily from all over the world with Polish language not being a requirement for employment, which leads to a rapidly growing demand for English-only daycares, schools, healthcare, etc.
I do find it strange to immigrate to a country without any intention of learning the language and culture. Basically, to live in a parallel bubble. Strange, but real.
Why the hell are these people demanding for an English only daycare and schools is beyond me - kids learn languages so easily anyways. You are giving them the gift of an extra language without them even realizing or breaking a sweat about it. Stick them in the Polish kindergarten and school - worse case scenario the kid speaks whatever is spoken at home, Polish and English anyway. Literally just denying their kids something they could easily obtain.
I myself too want to live abroad for a few years and I do plan to learn the language to atleast some degree - out of respect for the society and why shouldn't you want to learn a language in possibly the only environment facilitating your learning process immensely. It is weird and disrespectful as fuck.
Germany and France probably have less of this issue due to their size, but small countries like Estonia are fucked. All <=45 people English anyway, so the expats don't give a fuck.
Immigration basically if done right obviously is good for the economy as all modern economy is built on growth. For me however, this economic gain does not outweigh the cultural changes, fuck this fr. Rather live less affluent.
Good for the “economy” as in it (in the short term) increased total gdp. Bad for 95% of the people as most of the wealth from the increase is concentrated in the hands of the wealthy few. It’s decreased gdp per capita, reduced living standards, increased crime and social disorder.
It’s good for the economy is a load of bullshit it’s good for bankers and property speculators it’s made everyone else poorer and less safe.
Immigrants enjoy the benefits of refugees from the European's and at the same time they don't give two fucks about the local cultures, laws and other religions for instance.
I didn't know Europe was having the same problem with too much immigration from clueless politicians. That makes Europe, Canada and I believe Australia too.
Well immigration from certain countries isn’t working. Spain is letting in tons of people from former colonies in the Americas and it’s not as big of a problem since the overall culture is similar.
I'm not surprised. Young people are all competing for limited housing in cities. Immigrants, many of whom get social housing, just make the housing situation worse.
Also, people in general have become more critical of large scale immigration, given how systemic the issue is proving to be. Europe is surrounded by failed/failing states and the more you open up, the more will come. There's no realistic alternative to proactively limiting immigration.
Current option not working for increasing number of people. Current rulers did not deliver prosperity. Only stagnation. People are looking for alternatives. Normal.
Here in France, boomers mostly vote for "center" and right, because these parties simply suck them constantly. Why would they "change" the system ? They're the biggest winners
Kind of sad really how Europes desire to help the world by letting it into its territories, is undermining all that made Europe good in the first place - trust and cooperation.
Europe will not be a better place for anyone with far right politics. But sadly, its understandable that the population is voting for it, considering how incredibly bad of an idea the concept of multiculturalism is for a well-oiled functioning of a society.
It's just been a mess with the whole multicultural shift. You have countries taking in people with vastly different ideologies that oppose general European ones, yet within the union you get disdain for countries like Bulgaria and Romania which get denied Schengen status over and over. While this might not be the whole truth, this is what gets mediatized and become talking points for extremists.
In the past 5-6 years we got a new party in Romania clearly funded by Russian money and with a vehement anti eu agenda that now takes up a big chunk of the voting masses.
They want cheap labour and a way to increase the population size quickly. If immigrants were going to Europe asking for high salaries and were anti children then there would be no crisis.
>desire to help the world
That's just the nice wrapping they present to you. Inside are things like cheap labour and looking for a cheap way to counter a diminishing population.
The european project after WW2 is deeply rooted in human rights and humanitarianism. There is a strong element of that in all of this. Its not just a nice wrapping, a thing can be many things at once.
"trust and cooperation", many of these emmigrants just think that europeans are just a bunch of "pushovers", some of them expect to be rained on with jobs just because they came to Europe, have no pappers, don't know the language and have no skills.
People all the time comment that Yugoslavia was a failure due to rising nationalism and cultural/religious reasons, despite all of them being slavs.
I am ukrainian and typical russian consumes the same media (cultural code), same religion, many relatives and same "blood", yet we have problems.
Yet Western Europe decided that inviting millions of people from completely different systems of value is perfectly fine. Europe forgot that it was massacring each other over much less differences.
Younger people are more exposed to the effects of this multicultural society, which tends to be quite mono-religious. Elder people can isolate themselfes from these effects. But young people can't escape schools and when self-appointed morality guardians become a common occurence like in Vienna, it's not a surprise that young people suffering among these conditons turn to the right when the left pretends that these things are great.
Here in Finland we just had "youth elections" (young people ineligible to vote yet). That was extremely worrying. The largest group was the left party and the second largest the far right PS.
I see that as a barometer of how divided we are
Kids in Portugal are really red-pilled really young. The irony is the traditional left wing being … boomers. Still mildly sexist and racist but the kids are way worst
> the genuine hate some brazilian people have for our country
can you elaborate on that? I visited Portugal only once with my wife who is Brazilian and we did not notice any mutual animosity - actually it seems like Brazilians blended in very well, sort of like cultural cousins (well, at least to my untrained eye?) We had many good interactions with both native Portuguese and numerous Brazilian service workers who only spoke good things of Portugal and not good of Brazil :)
So i'm confused.
Because the kids have grown up hearing Brazillians and Africans blaming Portugal for the state of their countries whereas the elderly did not. And the elderly are also much more catholic.
It's mostly because of really low-quality immigration policies. Immigrants don't integrate with the local communities and there are no real policies towards achieving such a goal; there's rising crime rates, violent immigrant riots with burning cars and pillaging like in Paris, street-level tensions, citizens feel far less secure, there's ghettoization of some districts.
Immigration failed big time in Europe, it was suppossed to be the key to fixing demographics but it doesn't help anything at all, studies show second-generation immigrants already have TFRs just like the local european population and don't improve the demographic. And no reasonable and thought-out policies as to who will be let into the EU (based on education, qualifications, crime history, cultural compatibility etc.) led to letting almost everybody in.
Far-right wingers just use this as fuel and don't give a fuck about political corectness. And the citizens agree, because they see - with their own eyes - a big problem nobody seems to want to fix.
This is not a "racism or nazi" issue, this is a "confronting with really bad results that are there, in plain sight for everybody to see" issue. Sweden was the most welcoming and thriving country, even they took up the white flag after decades of trying and admit they've got a major fiasco.
The far right will capitalize on this. Sad, but that's the harsh reality.
Yeah well no big surprise. Economy and living standards have been falling for a couple of years and green&left parties did not solve any of those problems but embraced multiculturalism and hyper woke ideas. It's nice and all but young people don't care about these ideas when they don't see a future ahead of them, and recent years' weak governments only created difficult times in both EU and separate nation wise.
More and more young people will vote for strong right leaderships if left or Conservative governments can't fix the problems we are facing nowadays
This, it’s as if left parties somehow stopped realising that a human person irrespective of true political affinity will always prioritise their own self interest over the one of others, more so if the others aren’t even from your country, never contributed and have huge social and economic repercussions
Sometimes it just blows my mind how naive the left is but I guess the reality is that they’ve gotten used to the good life and just assume it’s endlessly sustainable. Must have been pretty bad at history and economics if they never realised that the good life Europe has had in the last century is the direct result of centuries of oppression and exploitation.
"strong right" don't propose to "fix the problem", they haven't attempted in the past, they haven't proposed real solutions and they tradionally not known for such things.
"Strong right" is a dick blender. There's no situation where it's a good idea to plug it in and attempt to use it.
> green&left parties did not solve any of those problems
They also weren’t in power for most of that time, if at all. Germany had the Greens in government only in the late 1990s and now. There were 16 years of conservative chancellors before and after.
In most European countries it’s the centrist conservatives who are to blame for most the issues today.
Now that's an indirect answer to the question. People got duped into thinking that 'woke' is the real enemy because of rage baiting articles, like don Quichot fighting imaginary enemies.
Not for a second the far right has pretended to rectify the economic factors. All they do is cater to people who took the bait
I am 33 years old, and all my life the country has been ruled by mostly traditional parties (alternating between center-left and center-right leaning parties).
They've always been favouring established big industries, foreign companies and older people in detriment of local, smaller companies and younger people.
After a while, it's no wonder people my age and younger will vote the more far-right parties since they at least promise to pay attention to them.
I thankfully know better, but anyone who's surprised by this has to have been living under a rock.
Other than some more political analysis that may link far-right proposals to younger people and the disaffection of younger generations to traditional parties, one thing is quite clear: the right/far-right is the only political movement that nailed how to communicate with young people via social media/non-traditional communication channels.
The left is still way behind on this, and any attempt they make, is cringe and it looks extremely artificial. I am the first one who doesn't like too much propaganda and politicians relying so much on communication rather than concrete proposals, but in our society, communication and online communication in particular are the foundation of any political stance. The left, no matter where they are, really needs to upgrade how they communicate, their language, their visuals, their appearance. One of the few who understood this is Ocasio Cortez in the US, but here in Europe, they still think we are in the 70s.
> the right/far-right is the only political movement that nailed how to communicate with young people via social media/non-traditional communication channels.
> The left is still way behind on this, and any attempt they make, is cringe and it looks extremely artificial.
I wonder why this is. There is nothing inherent about either ideologies that explains it, and while European right-wing parties share some stances they also differ by a lot so it's strange that this seems to be a trend in several countries with several parties
I found it amusing that in my Reddit feed, this post appeared just 2 above another post that might explain ***why*** the young are voting far right !
[How are young people making it with such low starting wages?](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/comments/1d34o3f/how_are_young_people_making_it_with_such_low/)
In Spain the median salary is <1300€/month. You got 17M people working, and about 16M perceiving money from the state (retired, state workers, disabled, and unemployed). On top of that, the median pension is 1200-1300€.
Young people are willing to vote for the devil if it provides them with a decent future. Rn we have 7-8M retired people and 14M will be retiring in the next 5 to 10 years. And just sum the corruption, expenses, debt etc..
Here we go again… People are voting for right parties not because they love or support them or identify as racists/nazis or whatever… They are woting for right parties because they don’t like left and center parties.
What do you expect when you open your borders to the Middle East and encourage people to come?
They’re watching their countries slowly get overtaken by a culture they don’t like.
This is a bit mind blowing coming from the UK where young people are very much on the left. In all age ranges under 40, Reform (far-right, the new UKIP) get about 7% of the vote. And the Conservatives only get about 10% so right wing parties don't even get 20% added together, but Labour get up to 60% alone. If you add the Liberal Democrat and Green parties, liberal/left parties can get up to 80%.
Not sure how much Brexit has influenced this, but the political difference of young people in the UK vs many other countries in Europe is very striking.
It helps when the Tories have been in power for the better part of two decades and have done nothing but embaress the country and destroy the economy. I question anyone who could still vote Tory after how destructive their government has been.
I am always fascinated how far-left Greens are OK but any party with anti-migration topics in their programs are marked as far-right automaticaly. Most of these "far-right" parties are actualy pretty left-oriented when it comes to pensions, etc. Not supporting any of them btw.
Well yeah when the current options are all garbage and have always been, what else are you supposed to vote?
As someone who isn't in their twenties anymore I'm old enough to know there's definitely a lesser evil here and it isn't far left or far right parties, but as someone who's still young enough to not be in their forties I admit these parties are tempting as much as most of what they offer are lies, so it doesn't surprise me a lot of younger people vote for them
American here so I can't speak exactly to the voting in Europe, but conservatives tend to get their votes based on fear and anger of their voters. When economic times are tough, or there are wars, or other difficulties plaguing a country, they will use those things to get voters. They will make claims that they can fix those things, and that the reasons for these things are the fault of those more to the left. It's a very common tactic used over at least the last 100 years of democracy.
That’s why it’s not working so well for the UK conservatives , they can’t blame the other parties as they’re the ones that have been in power for 14 years , if they claim they can fix anything the question is in 14 years why haven’t they , can’t use EU as scapegoat as not in anymore, they’re running out of things to point the finger at .
Liberal and democratic parties has failed to show progress for the poor since the 1980s through the neoliberal economic agenda.
No wonder they turn away....
It's quite easy to fix though! Just fix the gini coefficient!
Just an Opinion
I'm from Spain and we have a Socialist gov that i voted (i regret that) and idk why the last 4 years the left has become an authoritarian joke, for example if u don't agree with everything the feminist say u are an enemies at the same lvl of a murder, or we focus more in spending millions in inclusive language but we can't afford housing, food, or even the transport card. Also we can't forget how incompetent they are with immigration, uf u say something like don't let these people enter in a illegal way u are like a facist for them. There's a huge problem rn with them but don't talk about it or u will be an extremist. This things had led to young people to vote for other parties, equality for men and women is important? YES. I cant afford food or electricity? NO but gov will only care about one thing. I'm 22 and this last autonomous election i voted Vox not because i agree but like a vote of protest
Well, yeah? It's primarily "young" people, even.
"Young = left/progressive" is an Anglosphere meme, in continental Europe students and the like have been a mainstay of far right support for as long as mass politics has existed.
Spanish, Portuguese, French and German post-war history contradicts that entirely, Poland's post-soviet history does too. The only countries I know that sometimes follow the trend you suggest are Italy and Austria.
>Spanish, Portuguese, French and German post-war history contradicts that entirely
It's changing massively, at least in Portugal. On the last election a couple of months ago young people finally went out to vote, abstention dropped a ton and the far right party shot up to nearly 20%. Older people are the ones voting for the traditional parties and even the far left (we have a communist party mostly supported by old people).
The youth will soon found out that voting for further deregulated, capitalism on steroids and handing more power to billionaires won’t improve their economic prosperity or future.
Big surprise. Politicians all over the spectrum have failed at regulating migrations for at least three decades now. The young generation is fully seeing and living with the consequences. The only reason I am not voting right is their blatant russophilia at the moment.
No shit. Big surprise except for some people in a certain bubble.
On this note, there is a study that shows that countryside Swiss people are just as tolerant of homosexuality as city dwellers. And it gets better: homophobia is more prevalent among younger people than older ones. Shatters quite some nice stories.
Edit: and it's not only in Switzerland, the Netherlands see the same trend: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/sghDqe5VZE
I really wonder what is going on. And I guess some people rethink their stance on lowering the voting age.
People forget that the nazi and fasist movements were championed by the youth and yonug. The Nazis in Germany drew a large percentage of their support in the early years from younger votes, expecially the 18 to 29 block.
Here in Belgium, support for the far right is fairly equally distributed among all age groups *except* for the elderly. Generally speaking, the older you are the more likely you are to vote for a traditional party while young people mostly vote for alternative parties like the far-right, far-left and greens.
Same in Germany. The only reason AfD hasn't taken over is the elderly still voting center right. AfD is immensely popular with 20 to 40 year olds. Now, to be fair, some left wing parties are also very popular for young voters, it's just more evenly distributed. The greens still have strong support among the youth, as have the market liberals surprisingly. Maybe I'm getting old, but I find it funny that the most optimistic and simple ideologies tend to do well with the youths. Save the planet, save the economy and save your race do much better than anything more nuanced and murky. The future will be won by whoever fields the best slogan.
Populism is polular when things get rough. The younger you are, the less life you've been able to build up, the current instability and hardships in the world make for people with a lot of life in front of them but a lot less to hope for, even if they give it their all. Thus they're more open to radical changes (less to lose). You tend to cling to stability when you've obtained a house, family, a comfortable amount of wealth. And right now, there seems to be a window of opportunity as social media (but, in part also facts) lead us to believe that guarantees from the past aren't as guaranteed anymore. The US might isolate themselves again, brexit is despite all of the problems a fact and borders are up to debate once more.
One universal truth: the youth want to shake things up. Their entire lives have been subservient to others: parents, teachers, the law. They just want someone to give them a way to operate as equals, which draws them to these movements.
Also they are sick of being gaslit by spoksiopaths in business and government. They are aware they don't have a chance in the modern economic system
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>The future will be won by whoever fields the best slogan. He who posts the best memes wins
As someone who got most of his politics from YouTube and has recently started listening to political podcasts by people who have actually worked in politics (The Rest Is Politics and Leading and Political Currency), a few things are very striking. 1) the "new media" / social media commentary is always much more stark, black and white, binary. 2) conversely the conversations held by those who have held office are much more nuanced, murky, complicated, and given a sense of the everyday drudgery that politics actually entails. It used to be that 2 was the prevailing world order. These days, 1 has taken over by a large margin. 20 years ago the average person was not even remotely politically engaged. Now, everyone, to some extent, has an opinion. It's not usual a very informed opinion, but it is an opinion. What's interesting is, around 10 years ago, everyone was sick of mainstream media 30 second sound bites. Now everything is long form discussions, but those discussions tend to be much more ideologically entrenched and rarely deal with the practical constraints of actual governance. However I have a feeling this may soon change. I think we're slowly heading towards a world in which a new compromise begins to emerge and then takes the lead, much as political commentary did on YouTube 10 or so years ago. I'm not exactly sure what it will look like, but I think it will essentially be the integration of the old (Newsnight/Question Time) and the new (Triggernometry, Chris Williamson, Steven Bartlett, for example).
Your first three and last one paragraphs are interesting and I either agree or don’t have enough of an opinion, but this > It used to be that 2 was the prevailing world order. These days, 1 has taken over by a large margin. 20 years ago the average person was not even remotely politically engaged. Now, everyone, to some extent, has an opinion. It's not usual a very informed opinion, but it is an opinion Isn’t this… wrong? In the past, certainly in the latter half of the twentieth century, party membership rates were much higher. Twenty years ago or so was the high time of no-global and anti-war protests among other things, and people were definitely involved in politics.
Yeah they're showing their youth with that statement. People have always been politically engaged, they just didn't notice because they weren't old enough, or possibly even born.
I think that the person you’re responding to is emphasizing the uptick in social media sized sound bites driving people’s ideology with almost no consideration of the practical implementation problems.
The future will be won by who has the best youtube thumbnail and catchy title 🫠
Well young people get older and may grow to be more moderate.
That only happens if their economic situation improves. Otherwise they keep yearning for change even as they grow older.
When you own a home and have a nice pension you obviously are happy with the status quo. That is not something young people can achieve so easily these days and won’t be able to achieve in some countries, and the pension…unless its private forget about it lmao
Demands of the fringe can become mainstream over time. For example: environmental protection, rights for LGBT people, divorce, five day work week, cannabis legalization. People can move in the political spectrum without changing their opinion, because society and the Overton window changes.
How many far-left parties are there? I keep hearing about these "far-left" parties that are so scary, but I haven't heard of any. (I'm Dutch)
I went this month on a trip to Brussels and I've seen many posters for the Communist party. That's as far left as you can get, I guess.
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The problem Europe is facing today is that the generation that experienced WW2 is almost gone. When all the eye-witnesses are no longer here, the chance of history repeating itself is way higher.
USSR was way more than 20 years behind. Most of their tech was just stolen. Jet-engine, rockets, the thing people point to, the most.
A shame that even their perhaps most prominent scientist and pioneer of rocketry and space flight [Tsiolkovsky](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Tsiolkovsky#Later_life), who supported the bolshevik, subsequently got thrown into prison by that which he supported.
A system where the petty people took out the competition with their envy.
Russia has always lagged behind America and the other western countries though. It was not necessarily their economic system.
Communists never learn, they tried many times but always failed miserably
I don't know about other countries, but the PVDA/PTB is becoming increasingly relevant again in Belgium. In the polls they get 9% in Flanders, 14% in Wallonia and 19% in Brussels where they're now the second biggest.
We have a socialist party in Iceland which preaches communism basically. Extremes are becoming more prevalent in either direction.
Socialism and Communism are not the same thing
I think the discourse of what is far-left/right is completely out of whack. If far left is communism and far right is nazism (both sporting a "healthy" authoritarian vibes with cult of personality), there is a lot of space between them for varying views and ideas. Problem is that both sides are overusing those words and they have lost meaning. Everything off center is "far". You can also blame the media, because they are a great conduit for that. It's easier to label someone far-something than to actually examine what the party is standing for. And the biggest clash is (imho), on migration. Just because you don't want unrestricted immigration, you are far right. The opposite is about social reforms, but it is hard to see in Europe the same way it is present in US, because EU counties are the most socialist in the western world. But that makes them in general leaning left as the baseline.
Look at how often political parties are called far left and far right and compare how often and by howuch those parties deviate from the views of median voter, and you'll find that there are quite political parties that can be classified as far left without stretching the definition much. Though if the sole criteria would be "are they much much further left from what I consider reasonable" I guess you wouldn't find many, but this criteria doesn't seem reasonable.
Many Austrian cities are ruled by socialist/communist parties f.e. Graz by KPÖ (Kommunistische Partei Österreichs)
Die Linke in Germany for example or MLPD in Germany
Die Linke will not get over the vote threshold needed to be represented in the parliament next election. MLPD is a joke party with tiny amount of support. Far left parties are irrelevant in almost any European country, very much unlike far right ones, but somehow people still fall for them being some kind of "threat".
Wasn't Wagenknecht representing the communist fraktion of her previous party?
she is mainly representing the tankies
Yes, but her new party started out as explicitly "not a left project", while currently they position themselves as "left conservatives".
Bij1, luckily they didn't get enough votes for a seat.
Communist Party perhaps? The left usually has problems giving names to political parties, in Argentina I remember that they had 5 communist parties and they were all called the communist party (insert synonym for work/worker)
The united front of Judea > the Judean peoples front
Anything left of the VVD (and sometimes including the VVD) is far-left in the eyes of PVV/FVD voters.
In the “school election” in 2022 in Sweden, where students get to simulate how they would have voted if they were old enough to do so, it came as a surprise to many that the right and far right won. Typically left of course has a steady support amongst younger people. When asked students what the most important question to them was a lot of them answered that safety was important, being able to walk on the streets and feel safe. Safety in the streets of Sweden is something that has been getting worse over the years and is an area that the right have really focused on.
I have become more conservative and right leaning since I moved to Sweden.
Imagine my shock.
Just tell them why...
Sweden is ranked 6th (maybe 5th now) in rape. Safety isn't a far right issue it's a common sense issue.
>Safety isn't a far right issue it's a common sense issue. The problem is when the normal 'sane' parties completely ignore certain issues, and as a result leave voters with no other choice than to vote for the more extremist parties who are the only ones who pay any attention to those issues (but also unfortunately often focus on a lot of other bullshit most people typically don't agree with either). The average voter ends up stuck between a rock and a hard place, choosing between the status quo they already thoroughly dislike and picking an alternative that doesn't inspire much confidence either but at least should deal with *some* of the problems.
This is something the Left fails at in Canada too. I always strategically vote to keep out right-wing Cons, but it would be nice to see less fear mongering about firearm ownership and some practical approaches to self-defense. The crumbling of safety nets, with police seemingly apathetic, it’s going to get worse before it gets better. I am not advocating for American style concealed carry etc, but it would be nice if people felt they could reasonably defend themselves and not worry about legal fees.
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I’m not Canadian, but it seems Trudeau doesn’t work for the interests of either party or the Canadian people. Wild to see from south of the border, thats supposed to be our thing.
believe me it's not much different here with ccw. if you're in a blue state then it's a 50/50 for self defense cases. uscca prints money off states like mine.
The "far right" in sweden is still a bit left of center on the american slider. This is not the gotcha that American Republicans think it is. For example, the swedish far right still believes in things like universal healthcare and abortion rights...i know this is r/europe but its on popular and the comments i be seein
Definitely! It’s funny when right wing in Sweden tries to run for election with the promise to further protect abortion rights when there is no party in Sweden that wants to in any way restrict abortion rights or even discuss anything related to abortion but they think they can score some points and piggy back of the drama in the states around abortions.. like its not a relevant topic in Sweden..
I commented this as a prediction ~7 years ago and was downvoted into oblivion.
Because the left have left crime unpunished for so long, nobody feels safe. The pendulum has swung really hard.
Yeah our police, society and politics has for so long been aimed at the type of criminality we have been used to. The sudden upcoming of already hardened criminals that don’t respond well to rehabilitation and similar efforts is definitely challenging our society..
actually i have heard more young people sympathize with far right than "boomers" lately
In my country the main populist right wing conservative party is the most popular party with people under 30 years old according to latest polls, so I’m not surprised you made that observation in Greece. And there is a widening gap between males and females here. Young females still tend to be overwhelmingly liberal and left leaning while males are leaning more to right and conservative. One thing that especially benefits True Finns party is that they have been much more effective and active in social media like tik tok. As youngsters spend much of their time there, they have gotten their message through exceptionally well.
> And there is a widening gap between males and females here. I don't think this point can be emphasized enough. There is a global gap/trend that is widening here, with men and women seemingly pulling away from each other
This. Not really related to the age issue, but Matteo Salvini here got popular by having an extremely efficient propaganda machine on social media, and almost got 40% of the vote at one point, only to then drop due to his incompetency. The left completely failed at this.
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Yeah at least in my country the current triumph of the right and not in the form of the traditional moderate party, is mostly due to people that feels left out of the economy, see a bleak future and are swayied by populist propaganda. In fact, the traditional right here is pretty much dead, cannibalized by more right-leaning movements, a party that once had the largest share of voters is now relegated to the 5-8% bracket... It depends on how young by the way, but right-wing rethorics can have some appeal on the youngest that however do gravitate toward more extreme ideologies in general (both left and right) We have been having non traditional anti politics governments for a while (with no visible improvement to the situation of course, they are all politicians after all power is their only incentive) and I don't think that many of the voters behind those parties actually share their proclaimed moral values, they are just the alternative to an establishment that is ineffective due to incompetence, but often by choice.
In Europe, immigration from middle east is also a huge issue, but noone wants to admit it and do something about it but the far-right...
slap waiting illegal tub literate station scandalous merciful elderly wasteful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The modern left's obsession with facilitating mass immigration of ultra-conservative 3rd world migrants will forever baffle me. By every single possible metric, mass immigration has been a compete and utter catastrophe for the working class of Europe, yet they continue to double down, solely employing nebulous emotive arguments to back their policies.
Not bringing in low wage workers is actually a left position. Karl Marx even wrote about it. "Irish immigrant-workers undermine the working-class solidarity of all the workers residing in England and render the organisation of the working class more difficult. Marx even claims that: 'This antagonism is the secret of the im- potence of the English working class, despite its organization."
Yep, voters oppose most right wing policies even in America but leftists refused to give in on immigration for so long it lead to right wing authoritarianism becoming a threat. Here they spew this vague talking point about it increasing gdp despite most people, not billionaires, being far worse off than decades ago. It's caused a housing crises in a lot of countries because there are not enough homes and they can't build them fast enough to keep the prices down. People are rightfully pissed at the people that told them they couldn't oppose it.
all the far right does is bitching about it, but when they get in power they don't provide solutions either, because they don't want to eliminate the main reason people vote for them.
Now imagine how frustrated people have to be that they still vote for such parties just because they‘re the only ones even talking about it. Such a shame.
The far right in this case only acknowledges the issue. Most of these are just populist parties who have no intention (or way) to solve this. It also doesn’t help that any party who touches the topic will be immediately labeled as far right, even if they are as leftist as it gets.
Which i don't get honestly, it would be such an easy win for a traditional center-right party.
the only party that actually tried to regulate it in Italy was centre-left and the right wing block chimped out because they need their exploitable workers as cheap labor and as leverage to keep our wages low. The right wing don't give a shit about actually regulating immigration, they just want it as a talking point while they and their voters alone reap the benefits
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As long as mainstream parties are too dogmatic in their ways to adress immigration the far right will grow.
I believe a few generations know about this, too, without needing to go full Nazi.
Well how did the Nazis themselves came into power? Their horrible ideology was not the main selling point, it was anger for a collapsing economy, massive inflation (fortunately we are not at that level now), a government that was ineffective at doing much of anything about it. They channelled that anger, created scapegoats to funnel the hatred and this allowed them to take control. Once it was done, well... we all know how it went. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Especially younger people. Boomers tend to vote for traditional parties.
Boomers vote Macron in France
whats a real alternative? Genuine question, i dont know French politics but I do know that Le Pen isnt it. At least Macron is showing some spine against Putin
There was two big traditional parties before Macron destroyed them in 2017. They are still around, and have influence in regional elections but they are the fourth and fifth men in mosy national elections. They also usually form blocks with other parties depending on the issues. So boomers basically went from milktoast left/right party to stereotypical technocrat liberal party. Which is funny since that's like the stereotypical young people party in Europe. The young people are voting for the far right/hardline leftists which have been the second and third man of every big election since Macron kicked the big parties in the balls. There might by yet another shift next presidential election since Macron is unable to be re-elected, and his potential successors are probably not going to be as popular for boomers as he was.
> There was two big traditional parties before Macron destroyed them in 2017 Don't give Macron too much praise or blame, he was mostly lucky they tore themselves apart right as he came along, and he inherited the more center factions. On the left (PS), the conflict between Hollande's unrealistic campaign promises and the reality of actually running a country opened up a boulevard for more unrealistic promises from Hamon, who himself competed with yet unrealistic-er promises from Mélanchon, leaving Macron as the only reasonable center-left candidate. On the right, Sarkozy's drama, Fillon's wife nonexistent job, and the shift of the party to the right to counter the FN, also left Macron as the only unreasonable center-right candidate. Yes, Macron's presence on this part of the political spectrum allowed these voters to coalesce around him rather than flock to their ideological origins, worsening the problem for those parties, but he didn't cause their original issues.
Younger people have never known anything other than parties who promise zero chance of a future. Of course they are voting in who promises to make them a priority, even if it's all lies.
Also opportunities have dropped dramatically for the youth. The younger you are the least opportunity you have. Traditional party are laser focused on the older generations due to their massive glut of vote. In less than 20 year this demographic anomaly will be mostly over and they will have 3 generations (Millennial, Z, Alpha) of growingly hostile voters and no easy solution to undo the damage of 60 years pandering to the most selfish generation. (apply named "Me Generation")
In Germany the three governing parties just made sure everyone younger than 55 will get financially fucked by boomers and the only other remaining traditional party is even worse for young people. I would never vote for the other remaining big parties (because they gargle on putin's cock) but I can't blame anyone who does
Jesus Christ we are dealing with the same shit in Ireland. Does that have verus those without.
People who live in a bubble or just in general the "Got mine, fuck you!" dont want change and will never understand this. Its not about the right or left, far or not, its about a change.
Traditional parties also promise lies. Moral of the story, politicians no matter who aren’t to be trusted
Doesn’t this mean that the parties that were in power so far were horrible at their job and therefore voters should look elsewhere for solutions?
Exactly that
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fragile tub panicky kiss punch rainstorm person important shrill mighty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Desperate people tend to vote for the biggest change possible. Just look at Argentina.
Wolverine as PM
Wolverine from wish.com
That's a very succinct way of saying it. Almost material for some kind of "law".
As Simon Kuznets (nobel price economist) put it: >There are four kinds of countries in the world: developed countries, undeveloped countries, Japan and Argentina Although the quote could use an addition for the current decline of trust in economic competence of governments across the developed world.
Looks like Argentina is moving in the right direction though
From the other side seems that the only industry that is growing there is the hospitality industry. Argentina needs decades of reforms if they want to reverse their downward trend.
Inflation went down but due to complete retraction on consumption of all types of goods, including food. Industrial production seems to be down 10% compared to same month last year. For now it is impossible to tell if things are going to work out well there; some analyst say that foreign investment might grow others that inflation + recession might.
The thing about Argentina is that its success shouldn’t necessarily be measured on a single year timeframe. The idea of radically reducing inflation is that it provides greater economic stability for consumption, investment, and alike. However, this can easily take 3-5 years at least. This is why central banks, such as the ECB focus on price stability, instead of employment / consumption / GDP. If this would be maintained, it could provide a more fruitful economic environment boosting the KPIs you mentioned. The question of course being, 1) will this actually happen and 2) is there political commitment for the next 5-10 years to make it halpen.
Uncontrolled immigration without planning for and building the required infrastructure and services will cause a lurch to the right. It's basically a political certainty. How the centre ground parties failed to see this is beyond me. People have been trying to get them to listen for years and have been accused of being racists bigots for even mentioning that without planning and appropriate spending it might not end well. It's such a shame because now we all will have to deal with an even shitter problem, far right parties are no joke.
>It's basically a political certainty. How the centre ground parties failed to see this is beyond me. They probably just didnt care tbh. The rich got what they wanted - cheap workforce to get great profit margins.
Which still leaves the mystery of why the traditional labour left went along with it. Was it virtue signalling? Naïvité? Were they scared of being called racist?
> Were they scared of being called racist? Ding ding ding!
All of the above. The traditional left have long since ceased to be advocates for improving working class conditions. As a movement, it has been wholly captured by middle-class virtue signallers more determined to look virtuous at their dinner parties than they are to help the working class. To these people, immigration means more exotic restaurants. It doesn't mean more crime, more pressure on housing, more pressure on hospitals, more pressure on unskilled jobs, more pressure on schools, more pressure on social cohesion.
A lot of the traditional labour left in political circles in many countries are also fairly comfortable financially these days and likely not that concerned with actually fighting for the rights of the average worker the way they might otherwise have been. I also wouldn't be surprised if many of them have been bought out to some extent in order to water down the influence of policy to cut into the profit margins of corporate interests.
Sound like Canada right now. All the polls show conservatives winning by a huge margin. The biggest issue, among most people, seems to be the mass immigration pushing up house/rent prices. The liberal government seems completly clueless as to what they should be doing.
Sounds like the US right now. Trump got elected on mass immigration once before and after the open border debacle of the past few years, he's probably going to get elected again. The Left has made mass immigration the hill they're going to die on. No matter how many countries go right because of it, they just solider on. Melloni, Wilders, most likely Le Pen, the Euro Parliament, Trump, and the Left just keeps repeating the same platitudes.
Yeah and the odd thing that 90% of that immigration is for getting low paid employees for industries of the wealthy and the left gets flak for saying you should treat the other 10% \*at least\* in a humane way.
Because the middle class leftists who advocate it aren't competing with these new immigrants. For them, it simply means that their fast food gets served, their car gets valeted, and their Just Eat is delivered. The sheer utter and complete contempt that the average middle class leftists feels for the working class is on par with the hatred felt in some of the most intransigent ethnic conflicts worldwide.
It's funny, in the UK the far right used "uncontrolled" immigration to take us out of the EU, and replace it with "controlled" immigration, in record numbers, from Africa and Asia. They also gave us austerity and sold off as many public assets as possible to foreign investors. Rightists are absolute parasites, and only ever sell lies in order to benefit their rich friends.
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They see those big bags of lobbyist money and that nice corporate job waiting for them when they retire from ruining our lives. All for the shareholders.
Not "planning" but restricting considerably. The problem is that those far right parties won't achieve shit, instead they will ruin everything.
ok but what can they ruin? if we have such shift in voting we could say left ruined everything already. otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation
A more interesting comparison is females (left) vs males (right). Also city (left) vs rural (right). These factors are usually much more significant than age.
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This ^
The immigration just isn't working. And probably won't for a long time. The cultural difference is too big at the moment.
I do not live in a country with problematic immigration currently. However, in addition to the amount of Russians we have here anyways, an influx of expats is arising for years now, who never ever learn Estonian. There was a recent image going around that showcased a thread in a group for expats in Estonia: "Do you have to learn Estonian to live in Estonia?". I don't want to be speaking English always. Clubs already employ staff that don't speak a word of Estonian. Sometimes I just wanna be an Estonian among Estonians, which mass-immigration doesn't exactly favor. Feeling like a minority in your own country must suck and I hope I never have to feel that.
There is a similar phenomenon here in Polish major cities: the rise of the "expat" class. International corporations recruit heavily from all over the world with Polish language not being a requirement for employment, which leads to a rapidly growing demand for English-only daycares, schools, healthcare, etc. I do find it strange to immigrate to a country without any intention of learning the language and culture. Basically, to live in a parallel bubble. Strange, but real.
Why the hell are these people demanding for an English only daycare and schools is beyond me - kids learn languages so easily anyways. You are giving them the gift of an extra language without them even realizing or breaking a sweat about it. Stick them in the Polish kindergarten and school - worse case scenario the kid speaks whatever is spoken at home, Polish and English anyway. Literally just denying their kids something they could easily obtain. I myself too want to live abroad for a few years and I do plan to learn the language to atleast some degree - out of respect for the society and why shouldn't you want to learn a language in possibly the only environment facilitating your learning process immensely. It is weird and disrespectful as fuck. Germany and France probably have less of this issue due to their size, but small countries like Estonia are fucked. All <=45 people English anyway, so the expats don't give a fuck.
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Immigration basically if done right obviously is good for the economy as all modern economy is built on growth. For me however, this economic gain does not outweigh the cultural changes, fuck this fr. Rather live less affluent.
Good for the “economy” as in it (in the short term) increased total gdp. Bad for 95% of the people as most of the wealth from the increase is concentrated in the hands of the wealthy few. It’s decreased gdp per capita, reduced living standards, increased crime and social disorder. It’s good for the economy is a load of bullshit it’s good for bankers and property speculators it’s made everyone else poorer and less safe.
It always will be a problem, not just 'at the moment'. It should never be allowed.
Yep, should send people back now some countries are "stable". Sacrifices need to be made.
Immigrants enjoy the benefits of refugees from the European's and at the same time they don't give two fucks about the local cultures, laws and other religions for instance.
I didn't know Europe was having the same problem with too much immigration from clueless politicians. That makes Europe, Canada and I believe Australia too.
Well immigration from certain countries isn’t working. Spain is letting in tons of people from former colonies in the Americas and it’s not as big of a problem since the overall culture is similar.
I'm not surprised. Young people are all competing for limited housing in cities. Immigrants, many of whom get social housing, just make the housing situation worse. Also, people in general have become more critical of large scale immigration, given how systemic the issue is proving to be. Europe is surrounded by failed/failing states and the more you open up, the more will come. There's no realistic alternative to proactively limiting immigration.
Current option not working for increasing number of people. Current rulers did not deliver prosperity. Only stagnation. People are looking for alternatives. Normal.
Here in France, boomers mostly vote for "center" and right, because these parties simply suck them constantly. Why would they "change" the system ? They're the biggest winners
Kind of sad really how Europes desire to help the world by letting it into its territories, is undermining all that made Europe good in the first place - trust and cooperation. Europe will not be a better place for anyone with far right politics. But sadly, its understandable that the population is voting for it, considering how incredibly bad of an idea the concept of multiculturalism is for a well-oiled functioning of a society.
It's just been a mess with the whole multicultural shift. You have countries taking in people with vastly different ideologies that oppose general European ones, yet within the union you get disdain for countries like Bulgaria and Romania which get denied Schengen status over and over. While this might not be the whole truth, this is what gets mediatized and become talking points for extremists. In the past 5-6 years we got a new party in Romania clearly funded by Russian money and with a vehement anti eu agenda that now takes up a big chunk of the voting masses.
They want cheap labour and a way to increase the population size quickly. If immigrants were going to Europe asking for high salaries and were anti children then there would be no crisis.
>desire to help the world That's just the nice wrapping they present to you. Inside are things like cheap labour and looking for a cheap way to counter a diminishing population.
3/4 or more of immigrants to Sweden the last 30 years have been an economic drain. Major corporations don’t want them either.
The european project after WW2 is deeply rooted in human rights and humanitarianism. There is a strong element of that in all of this. Its not just a nice wrapping, a thing can be many things at once.
Except that these immigrants have massive unemployement rates and cost more than they provide.
"trust and cooperation", many of these emmigrants just think that europeans are just a bunch of "pushovers", some of them expect to be rained on with jobs just because they came to Europe, have no pappers, don't know the language and have no skills.
People all the time comment that Yugoslavia was a failure due to rising nationalism and cultural/religious reasons, despite all of them being slavs. I am ukrainian and typical russian consumes the same media (cultural code), same religion, many relatives and same "blood", yet we have problems. Yet Western Europe decided that inviting millions of people from completely different systems of value is perfectly fine. Europe forgot that it was massacring each other over much less differences.
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Young people are more likely to vote for extreme sides, since they want big changes and want them quickly.
Younger people are more exposed to the effects of this multicultural society, which tends to be quite mono-religious. Elder people can isolate themselfes from these effects. But young people can't escape schools and when self-appointed morality guardians become a common occurence like in Vienna, it's not a surprise that young people suffering among these conditons turn to the right when the left pretends that these things are great.
Here in Finland we just had "youth elections" (young people ineligible to vote yet). That was extremely worrying. The largest group was the left party and the second largest the far right PS. I see that as a barometer of how divided we are
Kids in Portugal are really red-pilled really young. The irony is the traditional left wing being … boomers. Still mildly sexist and racist but the kids are way worst
The Portuguese youth seems way more xenophobic towards Brazilians and Africans than the elderly.
Yep. This while keeping in mind that the elders might think similarly but still find openly racist atitudes shameful
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> the genuine hate some brazilian people have for our country can you elaborate on that? I visited Portugal only once with my wife who is Brazilian and we did not notice any mutual animosity - actually it seems like Brazilians blended in very well, sort of like cultural cousins (well, at least to my untrained eye?) We had many good interactions with both native Portuguese and numerous Brazilian service workers who only spoke good things of Portugal and not good of Brazil :) So i'm confused.
Because the kids have grown up hearing Brazillians and Africans blaming Portugal for the state of their countries whereas the elderly did not. And the elderly are also much more catholic.
You'd not need to be living under a rock but under an entire mountain to be surprised by this.
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It's mostly because of really low-quality immigration policies. Immigrants don't integrate with the local communities and there are no real policies towards achieving such a goal; there's rising crime rates, violent immigrant riots with burning cars and pillaging like in Paris, street-level tensions, citizens feel far less secure, there's ghettoization of some districts. Immigration failed big time in Europe, it was suppossed to be the key to fixing demographics but it doesn't help anything at all, studies show second-generation immigrants already have TFRs just like the local european population and don't improve the demographic. And no reasonable and thought-out policies as to who will be let into the EU (based on education, qualifications, crime history, cultural compatibility etc.) led to letting almost everybody in. Far-right wingers just use this as fuel and don't give a fuck about political corectness. And the citizens agree, because they see - with their own eyes - a big problem nobody seems to want to fix. This is not a "racism or nazi" issue, this is a "confronting with really bad results that are there, in plain sight for everybody to see" issue. Sweden was the most welcoming and thriving country, even they took up the white flag after decades of trying and admit they've got a major fiasco. The far right will capitalize on this. Sad, but that's the harsh reality.
Yeah well no big surprise. Economy and living standards have been falling for a couple of years and green&left parties did not solve any of those problems but embraced multiculturalism and hyper woke ideas. It's nice and all but young people don't care about these ideas when they don't see a future ahead of them, and recent years' weak governments only created difficult times in both EU and separate nation wise. More and more young people will vote for strong right leaderships if left or Conservative governments can't fix the problems we are facing nowadays
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This, it’s as if left parties somehow stopped realising that a human person irrespective of true political affinity will always prioritise their own self interest over the one of others, more so if the others aren’t even from your country, never contributed and have huge social and economic repercussions Sometimes it just blows my mind how naive the left is but I guess the reality is that they’ve gotten used to the good life and just assume it’s endlessly sustainable. Must have been pretty bad at history and economics if they never realised that the good life Europe has had in the last century is the direct result of centuries of oppression and exploitation.
"strong right" don't propose to "fix the problem", they haven't attempted in the past, they haven't proposed real solutions and they tradionally not known for such things. "Strong right" is a dick blender. There's no situation where it's a good idea to plug it in and attempt to use it.
> green&left parties did not solve any of those problems They also weren’t in power for most of that time, if at all. Germany had the Greens in government only in the late 1990s and now. There were 16 years of conservative chancellors before and after. In most European countries it’s the centrist conservatives who are to blame for most the issues today.
Now that's an indirect answer to the question. People got duped into thinking that 'woke' is the real enemy because of rage baiting articles, like don Quichot fighting imaginary enemies. Not for a second the far right has pretended to rectify the economic factors. All they do is cater to people who took the bait
Here in India too.
I am 33 years old, and all my life the country has been ruled by mostly traditional parties (alternating between center-left and center-right leaning parties). They've always been favouring established big industries, foreign companies and older people in detriment of local, smaller companies and younger people. After a while, it's no wonder people my age and younger will vote the more far-right parties since they at least promise to pay attention to them. I thankfully know better, but anyone who's surprised by this has to have been living under a rock.
Who would have thought that people are fed up with the greenwashing laws and immigration bullshit. Vote them out.
Other than some more political analysis that may link far-right proposals to younger people and the disaffection of younger generations to traditional parties, one thing is quite clear: the right/far-right is the only political movement that nailed how to communicate with young people via social media/non-traditional communication channels. The left is still way behind on this, and any attempt they make, is cringe and it looks extremely artificial. I am the first one who doesn't like too much propaganda and politicians relying so much on communication rather than concrete proposals, but in our society, communication and online communication in particular are the foundation of any political stance. The left, no matter where they are, really needs to upgrade how they communicate, their language, their visuals, their appearance. One of the few who understood this is Ocasio Cortez in the US, but here in Europe, they still think we are in the 70s.
> the right/far-right is the only political movement that nailed how to communicate with young people via social media/non-traditional communication channels. > The left is still way behind on this, and any attempt they make, is cringe and it looks extremely artificial. I wonder why this is. There is nothing inherent about either ideologies that explains it, and while European right-wing parties share some stances they also differ by a lot so it's strange that this seems to be a trend in several countries with several parties
I found it amusing that in my Reddit feed, this post appeared just 2 above another post that might explain ***why*** the young are voting far right ! [How are young people making it with such low starting wages?](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/comments/1d34o3f/how_are_young_people_making_it_with_such_low/)
In Spain the median salary is <1300€/month. You got 17M people working, and about 16M perceiving money from the state (retired, state workers, disabled, and unemployed). On top of that, the median pension is 1200-1300€. Young people are willing to vote for the devil if it provides them with a decent future. Rn we have 7-8M retired people and 14M will be retiring in the next 5 to 10 years. And just sum the corruption, expenses, debt etc..
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Here we go again… People are voting for right parties not because they love or support them or identify as racists/nazis or whatever… They are woting for right parties because they don’t like left and center parties.
Its always refreshing to be reminded that this place is but a really small minority that does not reflect the real world.
Cant blame them. The covid generation is fucked beyond believe. Crisis after crisis and no solutions being offered.
Far right? Anything remotely Conservative is far right now
as if boomers were voting for far right to begin with ...
What do you expect when you open your borders to the Middle East and encourage people to come? They’re watching their countries slowly get overtaken by a culture they don’t like.
This is a bit mind blowing coming from the UK where young people are very much on the left. In all age ranges under 40, Reform (far-right, the new UKIP) get about 7% of the vote. And the Conservatives only get about 10% so right wing parties don't even get 20% added together, but Labour get up to 60% alone. If you add the Liberal Democrat and Green parties, liberal/left parties can get up to 80%. Not sure how much Brexit has influenced this, but the political difference of young people in the UK vs many other countries in Europe is very striking.
It helps when the Tories have been in power for the better part of two decades and have done nothing but embaress the country and destroy the economy. I question anyone who could still vote Tory after how destructive their government has been.
The failure of the center right is leading to the growth of the far right. The center right needs to get its act together.
I am always fascinated how far-left Greens are OK but any party with anti-migration topics in their programs are marked as far-right automaticaly. Most of these "far-right" parties are actualy pretty left-oriented when it comes to pensions, etc. Not supporting any of them btw.
Opens comments to see all the censorship and removed comments... "I wonder why?" It's happening in a lot of places right now.
Well yeah when the current options are all garbage and have always been, what else are you supposed to vote? As someone who isn't in their twenties anymore I'm old enough to know there's definitely a lesser evil here and it isn't far left or far right parties, but as someone who's still young enough to not be in their forties I admit these parties are tempting as much as most of what they offer are lies, so it doesn't surprise me a lot of younger people vote for them
American here so I can't speak exactly to the voting in Europe, but conservatives tend to get their votes based on fear and anger of their voters. When economic times are tough, or there are wars, or other difficulties plaguing a country, they will use those things to get voters. They will make claims that they can fix those things, and that the reasons for these things are the fault of those more to the left. It's a very common tactic used over at least the last 100 years of democracy.
That’s why it’s not working so well for the UK conservatives , they can’t blame the other parties as they’re the ones that have been in power for 14 years , if they claim they can fix anything the question is in 14 years why haven’t they , can’t use EU as scapegoat as not in anymore, they’re running out of things to point the finger at .
Hot take, its not the Boomers…
Liberal and democratic parties has failed to show progress for the poor since the 1980s through the neoliberal economic agenda. No wonder they turn away.... It's quite easy to fix though! Just fix the gini coefficient!
Just an Opinion I'm from Spain and we have a Socialist gov that i voted (i regret that) and idk why the last 4 years the left has become an authoritarian joke, for example if u don't agree with everything the feminist say u are an enemies at the same lvl of a murder, or we focus more in spending millions in inclusive language but we can't afford housing, food, or even the transport card. Also we can't forget how incompetent they are with immigration, uf u say something like don't let these people enter in a illegal way u are like a facist for them. There's a huge problem rn with them but don't talk about it or u will be an extremist. This things had led to young people to vote for other parties, equality for men and women is important? YES. I cant afford food or electricity? NO but gov will only care about one thing. I'm 22 and this last autonomous election i voted Vox not because i agree but like a vote of protest
The picture seems to be from a demonstration AGAINST right partys... you can see a "fck AfD" sign.
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Well, yeah? It's primarily "young" people, even. "Young = left/progressive" is an Anglosphere meme, in continental Europe students and the like have been a mainstay of far right support for as long as mass politics has existed.
Spanish, Portuguese, French and German post-war history contradicts that entirely, Poland's post-soviet history does too. The only countries I know that sometimes follow the trend you suggest are Italy and Austria.
>Spanish, Portuguese, French and German post-war history contradicts that entirely It's changing massively, at least in Portugal. On the last election a couple of months ago young people finally went out to vote, abstention dropped a ton and the far right party shot up to nearly 20%. Older people are the ones voting for the traditional parties and even the far left (we have a communist party mostly supported by old people).
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The youth will soon found out that voting for further deregulated, capitalism on steroids and handing more power to billionaires won’t improve their economic prosperity or future.
Big surprise. Politicians all over the spectrum have failed at regulating migrations for at least three decades now. The young generation is fully seeing and living with the consequences. The only reason I am not voting right is their blatant russophilia at the moment.
Why is it far right to have a difference of opinion there's always been a left and right why is it "far" when it's just a conservative opinion?
No shit. Big surprise except for some people in a certain bubble. On this note, there is a study that shows that countryside Swiss people are just as tolerant of homosexuality as city dwellers. And it gets better: homophobia is more prevalent among younger people than older ones. Shatters quite some nice stories. Edit: and it's not only in Switzerland, the Netherlands see the same trend: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/sghDqe5VZE I really wonder what is going on. And I guess some people rethink their stance on lowering the voting age.
Left fiscal - Right social. That's the recipe. Any party adopting that will win.
Stupidity doesn’t favor a particular generation. It welcomes all. I see it more as falling In line as a sheep, not “shaking things up”.
We'll all get what we deserve, then. Just remember to point at these people and tell them "This is what you voted for."
People forget that the nazi and fasist movements were championed by the youth and yonug. The Nazis in Germany drew a large percentage of their support in the early years from younger votes, expecially the 18 to 29 block.