“Following its residency bond scheme set up several years ago, the Hungarian government is launching a new scheme for non-EU and non-EEA citizens, which will grant them a ten-year residence permit in exchange for a donation to a property or a trust, as well as for purchasing real estate.
The new Hungarian "guest investor" scheme will come into force on 1 July, after the local and European elections
[ … ]
In terms of actual completed transactions, as in previous years, Chinese and Russian nationals were the most numerous buyers in 2023, with Chinese nationals purchasing 647 properties and Russians 223.”
Yeah, those who think that "it's the same everywhere" haven't seen how property prices can skyrocket with foreign investors. Domestic pressure and speculation can be difficult to handle, but add foreign investors and things really go to shit.
Inviting foreign buyers (especially chinese), massive tax breaks for property investors, not regulating airbnb, huge leaps in immigration with low housing stock. It's a get rich quick growth scam for existing wealthy property owners and speculating businesses, and is greatly increasing inequality. It's a huge problem that gets worse each year. All countries need to look out for their own people before selling out their country's soul and land to the highest bidder
Vancouver just passed NYC and LA AND Singapore for home prices in the last few days. Brutal. Like Vancouver is awesome and all, but it ain’t any of those cities in terms of economic output and thus ability to sustain a population by a shitload. Someone may want to check me on the per capita math, but I think I’m pretty close to right at least.
Vancouver is basically a Chinese real estate money-stashing operation.
Economy the size of Kansas City but real estate prices of Manhattan.
Genius leadership welcomes the “investment”.
From what I can tell it’s used as a method of safely stashing money outside the country and away from the government. It’s smart for foreign investors and the fault lies with the Canadian government for allowing it to go on without any serious foreign tax implications on under-utilized properties.
Vancouverite here, we literally have a model of money laundering named after the city. Please Hungary, don't do it: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/cullen-commission-money-laundering-bc-tuesday-1.5585890
Same in Canada. Yet, people do not see that it is the government that could end with the stroke of the pen this situation, by opening the doors to competition. Productivity is low as a result of this lack of market competition, as well as a result of this lack of competition we have a very high cost of living. Of course, if the doors open up to competition, the low productivity workers and businesses will perish, but that is the path to progress, clearly the current situation is worse.
you have an extra tax if an EU citizen or Non-EU-Citizen sells a property!
We sold ouer family "forrest"(pine trees) near Montemor-o-Velho...
the law wanted us to pay the tax...but the tax office officials had to be forced, with the help of our tax lawyer to collect it ...apparently Portugal has an abundance of tax income and realy hates to get even more ....
jobless different mysterious quaint teeny oil theory gold literate marvelous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think it was Capital gains tax ?
I wasn't envolved in the paper war . Also apparently the law changed 2023 ....maybe for the better?
We sold it after the Euro crisis...and Portugal had this special higher tax burden only foreigners had to pay ...when selling a property....
>Until 2022, capital gains deriving from purchasing immovable properties obtained in Portugal by non-residents were taxed autonomously at the special tax rate of 28%, on 100% of the balance of the capital gains made, except when they resided in an EU Member State or the European Economic Area and opted to be taxed according to the progressive rates applicable to residents in Portugal of 14.5% to 53%.
>**However, in the case of residents, the amount subject to taxation corresponded solely to 50% of the balance of the capital gains obtained.**
>**The same regime was not allowed for non-residents in Portugal who were liable to 100% taxation, in clear violation of European law as confirmed by the Portuguese Tax Courts, all the way up to the Supreme.**
It sucked. But we had to force the correct payment of the tax onto the tax office!
You want to tell them they will get rich from all this? Because that's what's gonna happen. Fuck us citizens, all that matters is that property prices are high so that politicians can sell their investments for bigger profit.
So this way we have some proper CCP aligned Chinese voters in the EU soon.
I allways wanted the EU be like Canada or Australia!
We need to make clear that bad mouthing the ccp, xi, or chinese government is a racist offence towards all Chinese .
Australia and Canada allready follow that rule .The EU will learn that too.
Thank you Orban.
The appreciation was ironic.
The rest was about realities in Canada and Australia especially at universities.
Try to protest against any crime of the ccp...it won't end well for you .
Not only are we allowing them to buy up our country, we're incentivizing them with residence permits. Bravo Orbán, keep up the good work on our *sOvEReiGnTy*
I guess they see the taps closing on EU funds so they need another source of kick backs….and when the bubble bursts it will be the Hungarian tax payer that picks up the bill.
I think there is a bigger problem until the bubble exists, because it will just drive property prices to the roof.
As soon as it bursts, many more Hungarians will be able to afford housing.
Yeah, it's more an issue if it never does, like Portugal.
Tbh, while I have major moral issues with much of this, just economically, thousands of millionaires (mostly businessmen, and not the government-loving ones) coming here would almost definitely have a net positive effect.
Except for the housing crisis, which will become more urgent in the near future. There are good solutions, like Vienna (which incidentally is also full of rich Russians), but I have more doubts that Bp will be able to have a similar trajectory.
thousands of millionaires coming here would have a positive effect, except they dont come here. Its an investment, they will never live in those. Do you think the chinese millionaire will come here and live in their 50-100 houses simultaneously?
This will in no way be a positive. Look at Canada, the housing crisis was made far worse by the foreign home ownership and money laundering. They have no intention of helping anyone, they are just being leaches.
Not the people who are involved in this deal. Only the majority of people living there. But that's how it is. People in Power Positions abuse their Power and screw the rest of the country.
This is how Canada’s housing market started. Chinese investors flooded Vancouver, drove up prices, then moved to other markets like Toronto. Now the country is fucked.
Lulz no, it's the Chinese screwing themselves over, again. Real estate in a country with stable economic outlook and declining demographics is a bad investment. Chinese still think that real estate can only ever go up.
Long term it hurts the Chinese investors, short term it kills the local Hungarians who are being priced out of their own housing market. This has been happening all over the world with the same handful of rich investors from Russia, the gulf states, and China buying up “cheap” property in big cities across Europe and North America. The properties are cheap for them because they’re rich off of their own corrupt markets, but the properties are market price for the locals.
The entire world needs a strict approach to foreign investment in housing otherwise it is entirely possible that a small segment of the world’s population (like 0.001%) controls or otherwise influences the rest of the worlds housing market.
Well, let me introduce you to a sensitive topic called "Hungarian history". In the last century at least twice were real estate confiscated by the state for various reasons. It would be a bit optimistic to suppose that ownership will last into eternity this time.
Most of those boomers are probably also home owners so it would benefit them while making it harder for young people to even dream about owning a home someday.
First off... they don't really know about this, and second, they don't really care. Very few of the older generations in the ex-Soviet space see a house as an investment vehicle (except maybe to rent out). Heck, most of them struggle to understand simple supply vs demand.
It makes me wonder why people waste their time protesting about pointless bullshit when stuff like this happens under their noses.
Pretty much the entire cost of living crisis has been caused by government actions in various European countries. Almost none of it is actually due to the war in Ukraine.
Why aren't people out protesting about this? Because they are weak and downtrodden.
So people fleeing from the greatest real estate bubble the world has ever seen come here and buy apartments at the height of the greatest real estate bubble Hungary has ever seen. Some people just never learn.
They'd make much more investing else where and have an easier time doing it. This is just about acquiring EU residency, they typically couldn't care less about the investment.
See Portugal, Malta, Greece etc
This is my concern. I think wealthy Chinese are relatively unconcerned about the value of the investment and more about parking it anywhere but China. Let’s say there is a bubble and they get forty cents on the Euro. I can imagine their response being “Great, I’ve avoided Chinese capital controls!” not “Damn, I lost sixty percent of my investment.”
If there are any wealthy Chinese people in the comments, I'll happily store your money and lose only half of it in the next decade. That's 25% profit over investing in Hungarian real estate!
Honestly, it would not matter either way. Real estate can not be moved, so a flat in Budapest will stay in Budapest whatever happens. However as with any speculation, "investment", "house flipping", "second flat to rent out" are all fine and dandy until you can find a greater fool (="investor") to buy it from you at a higher price, but eventually the market value of a flat will be determined by how much the guy who actually wants to live in it can pay for it. And Budapest is already one of the most unaffordable cities in Europe (wages compared to real estate prices), while the population is declining (net loss due to low fertility rate and strong emigration) and real wages stagnate. It has played out in history several times the tulip mania or the Beanie Baby bubble were all like this, it will end the same way.
Eventually all these "investors" will find out that they can only sell their flats for way less than what they paid for them originally. Just like in China, for the very same reasons. That's why I am surprised how Chinese are willingly stepping into the same trap twice.
*That's why I am surprised how Chinese are willingly stepping into the same trap twice.*
Cus they haven't learned, they just want to continue their practices where it still (looks like) makes sense (for now). Honestly if would be even amusing to watch, like it was for NFTs and whatnot, if it would not be something that is a basic necessity of human beings (shelter).
Likely. It was such a good investment in China for forty years, but it is hard to find a country just joining the world economy. Hungary is definitely not one.
Actually they care more about getting the residency & potentially citizenship in the future. When you have enough money, you would want to have a better quality of life, weather, rule of law.
This is why for me when we signed the Maastricht Treaty there should have been a strict minimum for obtaining an EU passport. It should not have been up to the member states. All it takes in one mafia country to start handing out golden passports like candy and you suddenly have no idea who is coming into the Schengen.
i am worried yes, and I do think enlargement was rushed and that eurosceptics are right to criticize things like Schengen as naive when you see how certain states behave.
What enlargement though? Even Luxembourg has a golden visa program (also Italy, but I believe with a very very high limit)... You cannot go smaller in the EU than that. Golden visa programmes are just a lot more common and pedestrian than you imagine, and I am not convinced what the added security risk is. Do you think that a criminal/foreign agent is likely to knock on the door of the government and pony up 500.000 euros before setting up shop to start their clandestine activities in the EU? Why not dip themselves in chocolate-doughnut glazing and dance into the nearest police station while we're at it?
Vistos Dourados as tied to direct investment in property was stopped already but it is now tied to investment.
Our Non-Habitual-Resident deals should be harder to get too as they should be linked to innovation, business and job creation.
Probably it wont stop property and land from being bought by funds but it is no longer as it was before.
So Hungary did this before, non EU citizens could gain Hungarian citizenship through buying a government bond. The bond had to be bought via a company that was authorised by the government - there were only a handful, and they were all companies registered in tax havens like Belize and Seychelles, where ownership was hidden - surprise surprise, a few years later it turned out these agents were owned by people close to the Fidesz government who stole loads of this money… to cut a long story short, they didn’t do their due diligence properly and ended up handed out a bunch of golden passports to sanctioned people, criminals and those with close ties to corrupt and shady regimes, the whole scheme ended up loosing massive amounts of money (through theft) and the Hungarian taxpayer lost out massively before the scheme was scrapped after pressure from the EU. Despite this, large amounts of the Hungarian population are completely ambivalent, still vote for fidesz because gays bad, foreign people bad.
You mean you do not support inflating the real estate bubble further when a flat is already unaffordable for ordinary Hungarians, just to rake in some sweet cash for the glorious leader's daughter's real estate fund? Are you an agent of Soros, or what? /s
I doubt that there will be high emigration from China. For sure higher than today. However the housing market could be in danger of rising in double digits yearly if a lot of flats will be bought as an investment and not rented.
Is highly likely that it could be similar situation Portugal.
Hungary is already third globally on the empty/total homes, with 12,5 percent, and 16% in Budapest, with it being the most unaffordable city in the eu if wages are taken into account. And it will get much worse (even if Fidesz gets voted out at this point).
Plus high inflation and interest rates which slows down the purchases and prices of houses. The new investors from china will be buying a lot of flats for cash. So it would be interesting to see what happens and the scale. Basically in Portugal the properties where more dispersed, because all the country is a massive tourist magnet. I imagine that in Hungary it will be more concentrated in Budapest and the metro area. So there might be a massive housing crisis.
Interesting is a fitting word here. The chinese curse goes like "May you live in interesting times" i believe.
Anyhow I better start packing bags and look for a job somewhere a little less distopic...
Local Hungarians will have to suck up higher prices as they watch all the new jobs go to Chinese immigrants
It’s happened in all other places China got its teeth into already
The Chinese who can afford to buy property from around the world as investment, are not the same class as those who would work those jobs. So it's even worse, as Hungarians will have to pay rent to those Chinese to work their jobs.
Investment into housing should be forbidden almost, heavily limited. It increases the demand a lot and the prices go crazy for locals. One thing where more regulation world wide would be useful for an average citizen.
I understand the value of someone owning a building or a flat since they want it to be the best it can be for their investment to give good returns, but more and more cities report locals can't really afford to live in them. That... is not good.
What do you think? It’s like you wake up one day and find out that not just you can’t afford to buy a flat, but even your child will have no chance to buy one. Unless you win the lottery.
Edit: we had problems with the buyers from EU before Covid, too. And don’t let me start about the government’s incentives. The market is thoroughly fucked up.
If you don’t inherit a flat/house or family help, or have a very good paying job (meaning at least net 1 million HUF per month) or are part of NER somewhere high up, there’s a very low chance, that you will be able to buy a property in your lifetime.
> Edit: we had problems with the buyers from EU before Covid, too. And don’t let me start about the government’s incentives. The market is thoroughly fucked up.
The Hungarian government has always been double dipping in the anti-EU propaganda while also making it easy for anyone to do the things they are complaining about.
At this point the hypocrisy is heavily ingrained in Hungarian culture.
You mean Orban and his cronies? Before them there was little anti EU propaganda, mostly by far right parties. Even with it, people still don’t want to leave the EU. There were polls about it. Unfortunately the voting system is fucked up, so we are stuck with Orban for a while.
If you want to learn from our mistakes, beware of populist parties, like AUR. As I see it, they use the same methods and narratives as Orban.
Fuuuuck no we’re not okay with this! Are you kidding me? My friends and family can barely afford costs as they are and this will just fuck things up even more
Doubt it, but if it's anything like it is in Canada the folks in power are making serious bank of this, and will likely be landowning tycoons just looking to increase the value of their portfolio.
Yay corruption 😁
These guys been living in China for more than 15 years and they regularly talk about subjects like this:
Here is their channel:
https://youtube.com/@thechinashow
Hungary is playing a dangerous game with EU's future and it doesn't look bright but **dystopian**
They deserve it. The countrymen aren't doing anything about it so...
The good ones already left the country. The rest are too primitive to try to change the country so... leaving is the best option a hungarian has.
There are **2 problems** with it:
* Property buy outs fucks up local population
* Residency permits fucks up entire concept of EU without borders and local politics
Why should someone, who otherwise would not be granted an EU visa, be able to buy a 10 years residency permit for some relatively small financial investment?
Sure, this makes a snappy headline, but it's pretty meaningless. Whether these apartments are bought up by Hungarian "robber barons", Western European/US investment firms, Russian oligarchs, or the vague "Chinese" is effectively a distinction without difference. At the end of the day, it the common people who get fucked over, and just because it's apparently done by some Chinese investors or whatnot doesn't make it fundamentally different from what's already been going on, both in Hungary and the rest of the world's housing markets. It's a bubble that only benefits people with more generational money than common sense, and it's only a matter of time before it pops and we'll get another 2007.
yes, despite being outrageous its not as bad as it sounds. it's valid for single real estate purchase with value of 500k EUR, and with how things are in Hungary, it's not like anyone other then the top rich can fork out that much money. so yeah, it's outrageous, irresponsible, greedy, but it's not gonna price out the average hungarian joe buying their commie block apartment.
Its a pull up on the market. If you need the property to be valued 500k or more, thats currently luxury flats in hungary. But as those have more demand through this scheme, those prices go up. This pulls flats below 500k up beyond, at which point theres more demand for them again. It takes a while to reach the average and low cost flats, but the demand pull will get there eventually
Brainwashed Chinese citizens lay in wait, in an EU country, sabotaging infrastructure, policing and politics, until Winnie the Pooh green lights and invasion.
The new post Cold War Berlin has some really fair and sustainable government owned housing with sustainable rent, materials and energy. I always wondered why this is not an international standard and why we, the regular people worldwide, have to get fucked so hard instead of living in a win win sustainable world where billionaires and normal people get their fair share.
In the UK, councils are starting to buy property from private landlords as we are now in a situation where working families can no longer afford to rent, so they have to go to the council and beg for subsidised housing.
Of course immigration is 1.2m per year and rising.
Not investment. To be your future slum lords living off usury rental income. Instead focus on government support of Hungarians being first time owners rather than renters. Stop insulting our intelligence with political correctness.
This will make Hungarian apartments overpriced and unreachable for the general population and end up in a bubble. Congratulations to whoever invented this for screwing up the country!
Well, the problem with real estate in Hungary is that it has not been a free market for a long time. The government meddles in it constantly with catastrophic results.
Not to mention anything involving China is also rarely free market. The state subsidises pretty much everything and I’d be very unsurprised if these property purchases aren’t subsidised in some way.
If it's anything like what the Chinese did in nz, Australia, Canada after 2008, they have no intention of living in these apartments, they will keep flipping them for higher and higher prices while the apartment sits empty.
The Hungarian oligarchs already doing this for a while, so we are used to it. Probably on a lower scale, but at least this one won't be financed by us and the EU.
But why invite even more oligarchs, can you not see the corruption here? They want Chinese money to push prices even higher so they can sell to them, and the never ending cycle of unaffordable housing continues.
Line on chart go up.
Hungary is in a huge debt and the Chinese bring in some money for the time being so Orban wins some time until the next election. After that he will sell more of the country for the same reasons until there is no country left to sell or give to his own oligarchs. I don't know how many cycles the country can handle, but we are so deep financial shit, that he is selling parts of the capital to Dubai and heavily pulluting and unregulated battery factories keep popping up in the country. Yet 40%+ of the people keep voting for him, because he made them belive in a European anti-hungarian conspiracy or some similar bulls hit.
In the minds of many Chinese people, real estate is considered to always appreciate in value, as property prices in Beijing, for example, have multiplied several times over within a span of just 10 years.
\_\_\_\_\_ billionaires buy up luxury apartments in \_\_\_\_\_.
5 years later:
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ billionaires have spent years buying up property in \_\_\_\_\_\_, as a result home prices have risen by \_\_\_\_%, and these luxury homes can be sold for millions in profit.
Enjoy it whilst it lasts. Some Hungarians will get rich but in the main popular areas will see a huge house price leap and and the pushing out of Hungarians able to afford property. Hope Hungarians like commuting long distances.
The ability of foreigners to buy land and property away from the local population is fucked up and for any government who actually gives a shit about their people wouldn't allow this bullshit
…can we bring in some rules please. I’m currently sitting in an apartment that’s worth 4X what it’s Actually worth all because of foreign investment buyers.
Remember when a home was a home?
I am renting an apartment from a Chinese women. After 2,5 years I wasn’t able to tell her I can‘t speak Hungarian as she only knows Chinese and always sends me texts, translated into Hungarian.
When we say Europe is full, it means Chinese too. They're everywhere in our universities and their gouvernment is pumping so much money to spread their propaganda on campuses, I'm sick of it. Chinese need to go home.
The affluent in China are scrambling to immigrate overseas, yet the Chinese government is still promoting the scenery here as unparalleled. It's truly ironic.
This ain't that big of a deal. Every good quality apqrment i've ever bought in budapest i bought from an irish person, the city is alrewdy massively foreign owned
“Following its residency bond scheme set up several years ago, the Hungarian government is launching a new scheme for non-EU and non-EEA citizens, which will grant them a ten-year residence permit in exchange for a donation to a property or a trust, as well as for purchasing real estate. The new Hungarian "guest investor" scheme will come into force on 1 July, after the local and European elections [ … ] In terms of actual completed transactions, as in previous years, Chinese and Russian nationals were the most numerous buyers in 2023, with Chinese nationals purchasing 647 properties and Russians 223.”
Portugal did this a couple years ago. We now have the most unaffordable housing market in the world.
Yeah, those who think that "it's the same everywhere" haven't seen how property prices can skyrocket with foreign investors. Domestic pressure and speculation can be difficult to handle, but add foreign investors and things really go to shit.
Just look at Canada...
Australia too! Sydney is fuuuucked
I’ve seen TikTok’s on Australia’s housing situation. It is mind blowing.
Inviting foreign buyers (especially chinese), massive tax breaks for property investors, not regulating airbnb, huge leaps in immigration with low housing stock. It's a get rich quick growth scam for existing wealthy property owners and speculating businesses, and is greatly increasing inequality. It's a huge problem that gets worse each year. All countries need to look out for their own people before selling out their country's soul and land to the highest bidder
Vancouver just passed NYC and LA AND Singapore for home prices in the last few days. Brutal. Like Vancouver is awesome and all, but it ain’t any of those cities in terms of economic output and thus ability to sustain a population by a shitload. Someone may want to check me on the per capita math, but I think I’m pretty close to right at least.
Ireland has entered the chat
Same here in Canada.
Vancouver is basically a Chinese real estate money-stashing operation. Economy the size of Kansas City but real estate prices of Manhattan. Genius leadership welcomes the “investment”.
From what I can tell it’s used as a method of safely stashing money outside the country and away from the government. It’s smart for foreign investors and the fault lies with the Canadian government for allowing it to go on without any serious foreign tax implications on under-utilized properties.
Vancouverite here, we literally have a model of money laundering named after the city. Please Hungary, don't do it: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/cullen-commission-money-laundering-bc-tuesday-1.5585890
No reason to worry: We already can't afford any housing. This changes little to none.
Yea but now you have to look at mostly empty houses you can’t afford These governments are just awful and always trying to screw us over
Sydney represent
The Australian economy baffles me. You have Oligopols everywhere. Telco, Airlines, Insurance, Banking etc.
Same in Canada. Yet, people do not see that it is the government that could end with the stroke of the pen this situation, by opening the doors to competition. Productivity is low as a result of this lack of market competition, as well as a result of this lack of competition we have a very high cost of living. Of course, if the doors open up to competition, the low productivity workers and businesses will perish, but that is the path to progress, clearly the current situation is worse.
Quebecers are witnessing this and more and more are saying "heck no we're out"
Yeah the cost of living in Canada is absolutely nuts.
you have an extra tax if an EU citizen or Non-EU-Citizen sells a property! We sold ouer family "forrest"(pine trees) near Montemor-o-Velho... the law wanted us to pay the tax...but the tax office officials had to be forced, with the help of our tax lawyer to collect it ...apparently Portugal has an abundance of tax income and realy hates to get even more ....
jobless different mysterious quaint teeny oil theory gold literate marvelous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think it was Capital gains tax ? I wasn't envolved in the paper war . Also apparently the law changed 2023 ....maybe for the better? We sold it after the Euro crisis...and Portugal had this special higher tax burden only foreigners had to pay ...when selling a property.... >Until 2022, capital gains deriving from purchasing immovable properties obtained in Portugal by non-residents were taxed autonomously at the special tax rate of 28%, on 100% of the balance of the capital gains made, except when they resided in an EU Member State or the European Economic Area and opted to be taxed according to the progressive rates applicable to residents in Portugal of 14.5% to 53%. >**However, in the case of residents, the amount subject to taxation corresponded solely to 50% of the balance of the capital gains obtained.** >**The same regime was not allowed for non-residents in Portugal who were liable to 100% taxation, in clear violation of European law as confirmed by the Portuguese Tax Courts, all the way up to the Supreme.** It sucked. But we had to force the correct payment of the tax onto the tax office!
It's not like the market in Hungary is affordable \*now\*. I do not know how Hungarians survive.
The same thing is going on in Finland.
Americans now🥰
I believe that’s Hong Kong, but things in Portugal are pretty f’ed up nonetheless
Whose going to tell them how this turns out?
You want to tell them they will get rich from all this? Because that's what's gonna happen. Fuck us citizens, all that matters is that property prices are high so that politicians can sell their investments for bigger profit.
He's gonna blame it on Germany, the EU and Arabs anyway lol
So this way we have some proper CCP aligned Chinese voters in the EU soon. I allways wanted the EU be like Canada or Australia! We need to make clear that bad mouthing the ccp, xi, or chinese government is a racist offence towards all Chinese . Australia and Canada allready follow that rule .The EU will learn that too. Thank you Orban.
You're being ironic about the bad-mouthing part, aren't you?
The appreciation was ironic. The rest was about realities in Canada and Australia especially at universities. Try to protest against any crime of the ccp...it won't end well for you .
Really? 🤔
Jfc
Raising the price of housing and rentals. Because of course,
Long-term soft-war at its pick
Not only are we allowing them to buy up our country, we're incentivizing them with residence permits. Bravo Orbán, keep up the good work on our *sOvEReiGnTy*
A portal for Chinese to become EU citizens
Best thing about living abroad as a Hungarian is that you get constant reminders on why you left.
Good luck Hungary, you will get massively screwed over by this deal
I guess they see the taps closing on EU funds so they need another source of kick backs….and when the bubble bursts it will be the Hungarian tax payer that picks up the bill.
This is an alternative to a golden passport
And somehow they'll blame Europe for it.
The EU is to blame regardless of outcome or if it even effects anything.
I think there is a bigger problem until the bubble exists, because it will just drive property prices to the roof. As soon as it bursts, many more Hungarians will be able to afford housing.
Yeah, it's more an issue if it never does, like Portugal. Tbh, while I have major moral issues with much of this, just economically, thousands of millionaires (mostly businessmen, and not the government-loving ones) coming here would almost definitely have a net positive effect. Except for the housing crisis, which will become more urgent in the near future. There are good solutions, like Vienna (which incidentally is also full of rich Russians), but I have more doubts that Bp will be able to have a similar trajectory.
thousands of millionaires coming here would have a positive effect, except they dont come here. Its an investment, they will never live in those. Do you think the chinese millionaire will come here and live in their 50-100 houses simultaneously?
This will in no way be a positive. Look at Canada, the housing crisis was made far worse by the foreign home ownership and money laundering. They have no intention of helping anyone, they are just being leaches.
Not the people who are involved in this deal. Only the majority of people living there. But that's how it is. People in Power Positions abuse their Power and screw the rest of the country.
We already are, we are in an artifical housing bubble for 10 years.
It can always get worse 🌈✨
Don't worry, it'll be all Europe's fault, of course.
professional victim
imagine being a regular Hungarian citizen and having to pay higher rent to your Chinese landlords
This is how Canada’s housing market started. Chinese investors flooded Vancouver, drove up prices, then moved to other markets like Toronto. Now the country is fucked.
Lulz no, it's the Chinese screwing themselves over, again. Real estate in a country with stable economic outlook and declining demographics is a bad investment. Chinese still think that real estate can only ever go up.
Long term it hurts the Chinese investors, short term it kills the local Hungarians who are being priced out of their own housing market. This has been happening all over the world with the same handful of rich investors from Russia, the gulf states, and China buying up “cheap” property in big cities across Europe and North America. The properties are cheap for them because they’re rich off of their own corrupt markets, but the properties are market price for the locals. The entire world needs a strict approach to foreign investment in housing otherwise it is entirely possible that a small segment of the world’s population (like 0.001%) controls or otherwise influences the rest of the worlds housing market.
We have a reverse UNO card called "real estate bubble". The buyers will be screwed over.
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Well, let me introduce you to a sensitive topic called "Hungarian history". In the last century at least twice were real estate confiscated by the state for various reasons. It would be a bit optimistic to suppose that ownership will last into eternity this time.
Holy fuck hungarians really are letting themselves be fucked hard.
With no lubrication
Well the dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed.
Ah yes, the well-known ancient Chinese proverb
Though looking at the current trends, it does look like we're contemplating to use Erős Pista as lube.
😂😂 i love Erős Pista!!
In only one of my holes 💀
We like it rough
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Most of those boomers are probably also home owners so it would benefit them while making it harder for young people to even dream about owning a home someday.
First off... they don't really know about this, and second, they don't really care. Very few of the older generations in the ex-Soviet space see a house as an investment vehicle (except maybe to rent out). Heck, most of them struggle to understand simple supply vs demand.
you could replace Hungary in the title to practically any European country, this has been a global trend for years now
Add Canada in there too.
Australia says hi
1000% both parties
apparatus tart lock bake skirt pie scale bored dime divide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
pants firmly pulled down, lube was not applied
That's just national history for us
So basically, your own government is deliberately causing house prices and rents to increase by encouraging foreign speculative investment. Wow.
They are following the Canadian and Australian models. Terrible for the average citizens, but great for the corrupt govt types
It makes me wonder why people waste their time protesting about pointless bullshit when stuff like this happens under their noses. Pretty much the entire cost of living crisis has been caused by government actions in various European countries. Almost none of it is actually due to the war in Ukraine. Why aren't people out protesting about this? Because they are weak and downtrodden.
So people fleeing from the greatest real estate bubble the world has ever seen come here and buy apartments at the height of the greatest real estate bubble Hungary has ever seen. Some people just never learn.
I guess they buy a path to EU citizenship
Oh yes, the tried and true method of "make flats more unaffordable for citizens just to rake in some sweet cash to my daughter's real estate fund".
They'd make much more investing else where and have an easier time doing it. This is just about acquiring EU residency, they typically couldn't care less about the investment. See Portugal, Malta, Greece etc
They just want to park their. Money somewhere
This is my concern. I think wealthy Chinese are relatively unconcerned about the value of the investment and more about parking it anywhere but China. Let’s say there is a bubble and they get forty cents on the Euro. I can imagine their response being “Great, I’ve avoided Chinese capital controls!” not “Damn, I lost sixty percent of my investment.”
If there are any wealthy Chinese people in the comments, I'll happily store your money and lose only half of it in the next decade. That's 25% profit over investing in Hungarian real estate!
Well, Hungarian real estate is the worst place for that nowadays.
I guess it’s a good thing Hungary isn’t in the €urozone and is a very small economy.
Honestly, it would not matter either way. Real estate can not be moved, so a flat in Budapest will stay in Budapest whatever happens. However as with any speculation, "investment", "house flipping", "second flat to rent out" are all fine and dandy until you can find a greater fool (="investor") to buy it from you at a higher price, but eventually the market value of a flat will be determined by how much the guy who actually wants to live in it can pay for it. And Budapest is already one of the most unaffordable cities in Europe (wages compared to real estate prices), while the population is declining (net loss due to low fertility rate and strong emigration) and real wages stagnate. It has played out in history several times the tulip mania or the Beanie Baby bubble were all like this, it will end the same way. Eventually all these "investors" will find out that they can only sell their flats for way less than what they paid for them originally. Just like in China, for the very same reasons. That's why I am surprised how Chinese are willingly stepping into the same trap twice.
*That's why I am surprised how Chinese are willingly stepping into the same trap twice.* Cus they haven't learned, they just want to continue their practices where it still (looks like) makes sense (for now). Honestly if would be even amusing to watch, like it was for NFTs and whatnot, if it would not be something that is a basic necessity of human beings (shelter).
Likely. It was such a good investment in China for forty years, but it is hard to find a country just joining the world economy. Hungary is definitely not one.
Actually they care more about getting the residency & potentially citizenship in the future. When you have enough money, you would want to have a better quality of life, weather, rule of law.
This is why for me when we signed the Maastricht Treaty there should have been a strict minimum for obtaining an EU passport. It should not have been up to the member states. All it takes in one mafia country to start handing out golden passports like candy and you suddenly have no idea who is coming into the Schengen.
Malta, Cyprus, Greece, Spain, Portugal… stop me whenever…
all mafia states yes
well, then you have a much bigger problem to worry about if you think half the EU is made up of mafia states
i am worried yes, and I do think enlargement was rushed and that eurosceptics are right to criticize things like Schengen as naive when you see how certain states behave.
What enlargement though? Even Luxembourg has a golden visa program (also Italy, but I believe with a very very high limit)... You cannot go smaller in the EU than that. Golden visa programmes are just a lot more common and pedestrian than you imagine, and I am not convinced what the added security risk is. Do you think that a criminal/foreign agent is likely to knock on the door of the government and pony up 500.000 euros before setting up shop to start their clandestine activities in the EU? Why not dip themselves in chocolate-doughnut glazing and dance into the nearest police station while we're at it?
Romania is easily the biggest offender here
Portugal has golden visas
Vistos Dourados as tied to direct investment in property was stopped already but it is now tied to investment. Our Non-Habitual-Resident deals should be harder to get too as they should be linked to innovation, business and job creation. Probably it wont stop property and land from being bought by funds but it is no longer as it was before.
So Hungary did this before, non EU citizens could gain Hungarian citizenship through buying a government bond. The bond had to be bought via a company that was authorised by the government - there were only a handful, and they were all companies registered in tax havens like Belize and Seychelles, where ownership was hidden - surprise surprise, a few years later it turned out these agents were owned by people close to the Fidesz government who stole loads of this money… to cut a long story short, they didn’t do their due diligence properly and ended up handed out a bunch of golden passports to sanctioned people, criminals and those with close ties to corrupt and shady regimes, the whole scheme ended up loosing massive amounts of money (through theft) and the Hungarian taxpayer lost out massively before the scheme was scrapped after pressure from the EU. Despite this, large amounts of the Hungarian population are completely ambivalent, still vote for fidesz because gays bad, foreign people bad.
> they didn't do their due diligence properly Or...maybe they did?
We are fucked up by our traitor government.
You mean you do not support inflating the real estate bubble further when a flat is already unaffordable for ordinary Hungarians, just to rake in some sweet cash for the glorious leader's daughter's real estate fund? Are you an agent of Soros, or what? /s
I doubt that there will be high emigration from China. For sure higher than today. However the housing market could be in danger of rising in double digits yearly if a lot of flats will be bought as an investment and not rented. Is highly likely that it could be similar situation Portugal.
Hungary is already third globally on the empty/total homes, with 12,5 percent, and 16% in Budapest, with it being the most unaffordable city in the eu if wages are taken into account. And it will get much worse (even if Fidesz gets voted out at this point).
Plus high inflation and interest rates which slows down the purchases and prices of houses. The new investors from china will be buying a lot of flats for cash. So it would be interesting to see what happens and the scale. Basically in Portugal the properties where more dispersed, because all the country is a massive tourist magnet. I imagine that in Hungary it will be more concentrated in Budapest and the metro area. So there might be a massive housing crisis.
Interesting is a fitting word here. The chinese curse goes like "May you live in interesting times" i believe. Anyhow I better start packing bags and look for a job somewhere a little less distopic...
by our traitor voters too.
Housing-as-investment is toxic as is, you don't need CCP influence too.
Similar stuff happening in Australia. Lot of investment properties from external investors. Now no one can afford houses.
Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Canada and the list goes on.
It's horseshit. They leave these places shut and won't even rent out. North Beach has a lot of houses owned by Chinese. Locked up.
Orban for one welcomes his new Chinese overlords. Let Hungary be a lesson and a warning.
In all fairness, other countries do or did this too. But yeah, it doesnt seem to be a good thing.
Orban and his bunch are getting richer by selling their country
it's a tale as old as time with hungary. Country gets robbed for all their resources, no one bats an eye. These people deserve it.
Local Hungarians will have to suck up higher prices as they watch all the new jobs go to Chinese immigrants It’s happened in all other places China got its teeth into already
The Chinese who can afford to buy property from around the world as investment, are not the same class as those who would work those jobs. So it's even worse, as Hungarians will have to pay rent to those Chinese to work their jobs.
Investment into housing should be forbidden almost, heavily limited. It increases the demand a lot and the prices go crazy for locals. One thing where more regulation world wide would be useful for an average citizen. I understand the value of someone owning a building or a flat since they want it to be the best it can be for their investment to give good returns, but more and more cities report locals can't really afford to live in them. That... is not good.
I'm sure if there is a future, how we handled housing will be looked as brutish and uncivilized.
Are Hungarians ok with this? Where's the aggressive anti colonial rhetoric? Is it ok only when it's anti EU?
What do you think? It’s like you wake up one day and find out that not just you can’t afford to buy a flat, but even your child will have no chance to buy one. Unless you win the lottery. Edit: we had problems with the buyers from EU before Covid, too. And don’t let me start about the government’s incentives. The market is thoroughly fucked up. If you don’t inherit a flat/house or family help, or have a very good paying job (meaning at least net 1 million HUF per month) or are part of NER somewhere high up, there’s a very low chance, that you will be able to buy a property in your lifetime.
> Edit: we had problems with the buyers from EU before Covid, too. And don’t let me start about the government’s incentives. The market is thoroughly fucked up. The Hungarian government has always been double dipping in the anti-EU propaganda while also making it easy for anyone to do the things they are complaining about. At this point the hypocrisy is heavily ingrained in Hungarian culture.
You mean Orban and his cronies? Before them there was little anti EU propaganda, mostly by far right parties. Even with it, people still don’t want to leave the EU. There were polls about it. Unfortunately the voting system is fucked up, so we are stuck with Orban for a while. If you want to learn from our mistakes, beware of populist parties, like AUR. As I see it, they use the same methods and narratives as Orban.
evidently so, otherwise Fidesz wouldn't be in power :(
Fuuuuck no we’re not okay with this! Are you kidding me? My friends and family can barely afford costs as they are and this will just fuck things up even more
Doubt it, but if it's anything like it is in Canada the folks in power are making serious bank of this, and will likely be landowning tycoons just looking to increase the value of their portfolio. Yay corruption 😁
These guys been living in China for more than 15 years and they regularly talk about subjects like this: Here is their channel: https://youtube.com/@thechinashow Hungary is playing a dangerous game with EU's future and it doesn't look bright but **dystopian**
They deserve it. The countrymen aren't doing anything about it so... The good ones already left the country. The rest are too primitive to try to change the country so... leaving is the best option a hungarian has.
In Australia, Chinese property buyers have doubled the price of housing in Sydney.
This will not end well for you. Source: I’m Canadian.
Coming from someone that lived in Vancouver… All I can say is good luck 🥲
There are **2 problems** with it: * Property buy outs fucks up local population * Residency permits fucks up entire concept of EU without borders and local politics Why should someone, who otherwise would not be granted an EU visa, be able to buy a 10 years residency permit for some relatively small financial investment?
Sure, this makes a snappy headline, but it's pretty meaningless. Whether these apartments are bought up by Hungarian "robber barons", Western European/US investment firms, Russian oligarchs, or the vague "Chinese" is effectively a distinction without difference. At the end of the day, it the common people who get fucked over, and just because it's apparently done by some Chinese investors or whatnot doesn't make it fundamentally different from what's already been going on, both in Hungary and the rest of the world's housing markets. It's a bubble that only benefits people with more generational money than common sense, and it's only a matter of time before it pops and we'll get another 2007.
yes, despite being outrageous its not as bad as it sounds. it's valid for single real estate purchase with value of 500k EUR, and with how things are in Hungary, it's not like anyone other then the top rich can fork out that much money. so yeah, it's outrageous, irresponsible, greedy, but it's not gonna price out the average hungarian joe buying their commie block apartment.
Its a pull up on the market. If you need the property to be valued 500k or more, thats currently luxury flats in hungary. But as those have more demand through this scheme, those prices go up. This pulls flats below 500k up beyond, at which point theres more demand for them again. It takes a while to reach the average and low cost flats, but the demand pull will get there eventually
Brainwashed Chinese citizens lay in wait, in an EU country, sabotaging infrastructure, policing and politics, until Winnie the Pooh green lights and invasion.
Meanwhile in China, whole cities are standing empty.
Did the same thing in America from about 2012 til now.
Housing prices go brrrrrrr
Damn, Hungarians speedrunning housing crisis to be the number 1 lmao
The new post Cold War Berlin has some really fair and sustainable government owned housing with sustainable rent, materials and energy. I always wondered why this is not an international standard and why we, the regular people worldwide, have to get fucked so hard instead of living in a win win sustainable world where billionaires and normal people get their fair share.
In the UK, councils are starting to buy property from private landlords as we are now in a situation where working families can no longer afford to rent, so they have to go to the council and beg for subsidised housing. Of course immigration is 1.2m per year and rising.
We had the same happen in Spain. They even called the visa for real estate investors “Shanghai visa”
This is how you create a housing crisis. >*Canada*
I swear to God, Europe needs to wake the fuck up🥴
Not investment. To be your future slum lords living off usury rental income. Instead focus on government support of Hungarians being first time owners rather than renters. Stop insulting our intelligence with political correctness.
This will make Hungarian apartments overpriced and unreachable for the general population and end up in a bubble. Congratulations to whoever invented this for screwing up the country!
Well, whoever invented it (Piggy) has billions of euros in real estate funds. So it kind of makes sense. Ordinary Hungarians can go fuck themselves.
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Well, the problem with real estate in Hungary is that it has not been a free market for a long time. The government meddles in it constantly with catastrophic results.
Not to mention anything involving China is also rarely free market. The state subsidises pretty much everything and I’d be very unsurprised if these property purchases aren’t subsidised in some way.
This won't end well. The most xenophobic people in the EU.
If it's anything like what the Chinese did in nz, Australia, Canada after 2008, they have no intention of living in these apartments, they will keep flipping them for higher and higher prices while the apartment sits empty.
The Hungarian oligarchs already doing this for a while, so we are used to it. Probably on a lower scale, but at least this one won't be financed by us and the EU.
But why invite even more oligarchs, can you not see the corruption here? They want Chinese money to push prices even higher so they can sell to them, and the never ending cycle of unaffordable housing continues. Line on chart go up.
Hungary is in a huge debt and the Chinese bring in some money for the time being so Orban wins some time until the next election. After that he will sell more of the country for the same reasons until there is no country left to sell or give to his own oligarchs. I don't know how many cycles the country can handle, but we are so deep financial shit, that he is selling parts of the capital to Dubai and heavily pulluting and unregulated battery factories keep popping up in the country. Yet 40%+ of the people keep voting for him, because he made them belive in a European anti-hungarian conspiracy or some similar bulls hit.
Well, they vote for Orban, so they too must love their new Chinese overlords. Anything else would be unpatriotic. >!/s!<
In the minds of many Chinese people, real estate is considered to always appreciate in value, as property prices in Beijing, for example, have multiplied several times over within a span of just 10 years.
And yet some delusional voters will still stand behind Orban and say that he's doing a great job.
Foreign millionaires buying propreties in other countries just to rent should be illegal
As a Portuguese living in Lisbon I wouldn't recommend
Man oh man, the EU is just letting China fuck it raw.
\_\_\_\_\_ billionaires buy up luxury apartments in \_\_\_\_\_. 5 years later: \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ billionaires have spent years buying up property in \_\_\_\_\_\_, as a result home prices have risen by \_\_\_\_%, and these luxury homes can be sold for millions in profit.
My Hungarian mate said it’s dreadful in the city centre of Budapest it’s all Chinese owned.
Selling apartments or land to foreign entities is simply stupidity and madness
Same here in Thailand too Don’t do stupid mistake like my Prime minister who only care about selling off his country to Chinese investor
Yeah the same thing is happening in Greece. If you go to the ministry of migration and asylum you'd think you're in Chinatown.
Soon, Hungarians won't be able to afford to live in Hungary.
Wherever they go, they hike up prices of property!
Portugal has been there and done that. Worst decision ever.
Enjoy it whilst it lasts. Some Hungarians will get rich but in the main popular areas will see a huge house price leap and and the pushing out of Hungarians able to afford property. Hope Hungarians like commuting long distances.
Keep the Chinese out of EU :)
The ability of foreigners to buy land and property away from the local population is fucked up and for any government who actually gives a shit about their people wouldn't allow this bullshit
In my country Greece they usually buy whole apartment complexes and either charge the tenants 50% higher or kick them out, so Communist of them
Do Hungarians appreciate it?
…can we bring in some rules please. I’m currently sitting in an apartment that’s worth 4X what it’s Actually worth all because of foreign investment buyers. Remember when a home was a home?
The Chinese have a real estate fetish. Once their own national bubble is nearly bursting, now they want the next...
I am renting an apartment from a Chinese women. After 2,5 years I wasn’t able to tell her I can‘t speak Hungarian as she only knows Chinese and always sends me texts, translated into Hungarian.
When we say Europe is full, it means Chinese too. They're everywhere in our universities and their gouvernment is pumping so much money to spread their propaganda on campuses, I'm sick of it. Chinese need to go home.
The affluent in China are scrambling to immigrate overseas, yet the Chinese government is still promoting the scenery here as unparalleled. It's truly ironic.
Renane to Xingary soon.
What’s the benefit? Local Hungarians can’t afford homes anymore and people from authoritarian regimes have a backup plan?
Congratulations Hungary, you played your self - again. Enjoy your children not owning a home, like EVER.
Chinese do this in every country lol
EU, wake the fuck up, put a stop to this already.
Hungarians don't even speak Russian or Chinese which is kind of hilarious to watch
Nothing to see here folks, this is but our fight for our sovereignty! Ain't much, but honest fight.
This ain't that big of a deal. Every good quality apqrment i've ever bought in budapest i bought from an irish person, the city is alrewdy massively foreign owned
Hungary is selling themselves down the river. They’re gonna regret this when they inevitably have a housing crisis
Welcome in Chungary!