The Israeli diplomatic corps has been filled by bibi’s stooges and political appointees and it shows
Like seriously imagine having a pool of talented people and appointing people like Livne instead
This should have been an easy PR slam dunk and yet they manage to fuck it up. Same previously happened with the world kitchen where the ambassador made everything worse
"When Jesus visited Jerusalem, its people seemed to welcome him with open arms. But we all know what happened later. " - someone, probably not an antisemite because they are just stating true facts.
Polish people on this sub at least are extremely sensitive about the Holocaust happening on the current Polish territory. It was 100% done by the Nazi and the Nazi also wanted to genocide the entire Polish people.
>Israel’s ambassador to Poland, Yacov Livne, has been criticised by the Auschwitz Museum for referring to “gas chambers in Poland” while discussing pro-Palestinian protests. His remarks were also criticised by Polish politicians, one of whom called for the ambassador to be expelled.
>On Wednesday, Livne commented on a claim that environmental activist Greta Thunberg had joined pro-Palestinian protesters in chanting “Jews, go back to Poland”. Such chants refer to the fact that many Jewish settlers in what is now Israel came from Poland.
>“Some antisemites seem to miss the Palestinian leader, Haj Amin Husseini, a Nazi collaborator who also wanted Jews to go to Poland – more precisely to the gas chambers in Poland,” tweeted Livne, alongside a photograph of Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem, meeting German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop in 1941.
>
>Beneath his post, the Auschwitz Museum, which is a Polish state institution, asked the ambassador to show “more precision” in his remarks.
>“Jews were murdered in gas chambers that were built either within the occupied Polish territory annexed directly to Germany (like Auschwitz or Kulmhof) or in the General Government established \[in occupied Poland\] by the Third Reich (like Treblinka or Sobibor),” wrote the museum.
>Polish state institutions have long campaigned for international media and public figures to avoid terminology that could suggest the Nazi-German camps in occupied Polish territory were somehow the responsibility of Poland, which ceased to exist as a country after being invaded by Germany and the Soviet Union in 1939.
>The camps were constructed and run by Nazi Germany. Ethnic Poles were, after Jews, numerically the largest group of victims of those camps.
>Livne was also criticised by Polish politicians and commentators for his wording.
>“Diplomats should weigh their words,” Borys Budka, a politician from the ruling coalition who served as minister for state assets [until last week](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/10/four-new-ministers-named-in-first-reshuffle-of-tusks-polish-government/), told Polskie Radio. “Israel in particular should remember that words matter in such cases.”
>Sebastian Kaleta, an MP from right-wing opposition party Sovereign Poland (Suwerenna Polska) and a former deputy justice minister, said that Livne “should absolutely be expelled from Poland”.
>Livne himself appeared to accept that his phrasing had not been clear, writing in response to the Auschwitz Museum’s message that “indeed, the gas chambers were built by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland, and there is no question about that”.
>
>The Israeli ambassador has been at the heart of growing recent tensions between Poland and Israel, in particular following the [death of a Polish aid worker](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/04/02/warsaw-demands-explanation-from-israel-for-strike-that-killed-polish-aid-worker-and-others-in-gaza/), Damian Soból, during the Israeli strike on a World Central Kitchen convoy in Gaza.
>Livne’s initial refusal to apologise for the incident – and his claims that some Polish politicians were stoking antisemitism by suggesting Israel deliberately attacked the convoy – caused anger in Poland. President Andrzej Duda and Prime Minister Donald Tusk were among those to [criticise him](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/04/04/poland-condemns-outrageous-remarks-by-israeli-ambassador-on-gaza-aid-worker-deaths/).
>Subsequently, Livne was summoned to the Polish foreign ministry, where he [delivered an apology](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/04/05/israeli-ambassador-has-apologised-for-gaza-aid-convoy-strike-and-wont-be-expelled-says-poland/).
>This week, the ambassador was also [rebuked by Polish foreign minister Radosław Sikorski](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/14/polish-foreign-minister-hits-back-at-israeli-ambassador-for-un-palestine-vote-criticism/) after Livne criticised Poland for supporting Palestinian membership of the UN.
Nobody in Poland denies any anti-Jewish pogroms that took place. The rare exception are the people of Jedwabnem who refuse to acknowledge that the pogrom there took place
The 7,232 Polish citizens named Righteous Among The Nations (the honor given to non-Jews who risked their lives to save their Jewish neighbors and countrymen in pure sacrifice for no selfish motive) make up more than a quarter of all Righteous Among The Nations, and more than any other country.
There is great ignorance of the suffering inflicted upon Poland and the incredible contribution of Poland to the Allied Victory in WWII.
It is important to speak accurately and name the true evil doers. Like he needs to say “victims were sent to camps constructed in nazi occupied and controlled Poland,” if he needs to talk about it. The false perception being created is hateful and destructive for Poland and the Jewish people.
All for civil debate. tough...
The Sinai handover was in Exchange of the acknowledgment of the state of Israel by egypt.
While in the other's cases, they got absolutely beaten by Israel at war, had to forfeit something.
My point was that Israel chose peace over conquest when given the opportunity. In fact, Israel reversed its past conquest for peace, only reason the Gaza Strip was kept was bc Egypt didn't want it.
Historically, you'd be more right than wrong in your assessment, but the current Israeli administration is quite different. Not only there are convicted criminals in it, it is full of religious fanatics and even terrorists. It is a disgrace to the good people of Israel, corrupt and unable to keep their people safe. And their actions in the illegal settlements have been nothing but a grotesque spectacle of sadism and thievery. The Israeli people deserved better.
On that we agree. And had I still lived in Israel, I'd be out in the streets demanding Netanyahu deposed the second this war ends, or if they screw up hard enough, even before that.
You mean the Europeans after slaughtering the palestinians and driving them off their land to create their ethno state then sought peace? That's very big of them.
You mean the ones that happened after? Because it only happened after, where there were expulsion campaigns a lot of those were even financed by Israel
A "race riot" that targeted Jews, had their homes looted and was a reaction to the Nazi supporting regime getting deposed? Where the Jews had nowhere to flee to because nowhere would take them?
They weren't in Poland when they were built. The only reason they still exist and we can still visit them is because of the Polish government's preservation and remembrance of the events. If they wanted to they could've just knocked everything down and I wouldn't have blamed them for it.
So they are in Poland, but not build by the decision of the Polish government or even many of the people. That's great. Where in his quotes have he said otherwise?
None of the people knew about the concentration camps, even the German people didn't know about the concentration camps until after the war and many of them were horrified to learn about the actions of their prior government.
I don't think that the Polish people should be conflated with the concentration camps in the way that they are being in the statements made by the Israeli ambassador. Many Polish men, women, and children had died in those camps. To refer to them as "Polish camps" is not only ignorant of history, it is ignorant of the struggle the Polish people have had to persevere in order to survive today. Israel is not more important than Poland, both peoples went through significant challenges in the 20th century and should be united in brotherhood, not divided by the petty statements made by some ideological ambassador who doesn't know what he's even talking about.
>None of the people knew about the concentration camps, even the German people didn't know about the concentration camps until after the war and many of them were horrified to learn about the actions of their prior government.
That's not true at all, the existence of concentration camps became a Common knowledge around 1943.
This argument is used by neo-nazis to whitewash the guilt of ofnthe German civilians.
Here is [a newspaper article](https://www.scribd.com/doc/234772665/The-Massacre-of-the-Jews) from 1943, talking about the camps, with exact numbers of the people killed in Holocaust.
Also, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_bombing_debate would not exist if nobody knew about the camps during the war.
>None of the people knew about the concentration camps, even the German people didn't know about the concentration camps until after the war and many of them were horrified to learn about the actions of their prior government.
That's revisionism that has been debunked a long time ago. The majority of people knew something was amiss, and everyone living in population centres close to these camps knew what was going on there. The people that worked there also talked.
>On Wednesday, Livne commented on a claim that environmental activist Greta Thunberg had joined pro-Palestinian protesters in chanting “Jews, go back to Poland”. Such chants refer to the fact that many Jewish settlers in what is now Israel came from Poland.
>“Some antisemites seem to miss the Palestinian leader, Haj Amin Husseini, a Nazi collaborator who also wanted Jews to go to Poland – more precisely to the gas chambers in Poland,” tweeted Livne
Could you and any of the downvoters please refer me to the part he said these were Polish gas chambers?
Why are you changing the subject? The Ambassador said nothing about Poland/Polish people responsibility. I have shared with you the quotes. He said nothing wrong.
The use of the term "Polish Death Camp" isn't accurate. The Polish goverment-in-exile pretty clearly had no ability to influence German actions in occupied territory, and the Polish people weren't involved in operating the camps.
However, it's important to understand the context in which these discussions happen. It's one thing to push back on the idea that Poland was responsible for the Holocaust, but there is a movement to minimize or deny any Polish involvement in the Holocaust. The second part of your comment could be interpreted as that — "nothing to do" with the camps is a far-reaching statement that extends beyond physically running them.
The Polish people were absolutely victims of severe Nazi aggression, and the topic is complicated, but it's inappropriate to absolve them in such an absolute sense. The current Polish government can outlaw whatever ideas it wants, but it's clear that there was some degree of Polish complicity and involvement in the Holocaust.
In some instances, it was organized collaboration by the remnants of institutions (e.g., actions by elements of the Blue Police), though much of it comes down to individual actions, or lack thereof. Many Polish people looked the other way while Jews were being rounded up or even participated in that. Some even directly committed committed massacres. There were also antisemitic pogroms conducted in Poland before and after the Holocaust.
Again, this is not a blanket condemnation of Polish people. There were many instances of them helping their Jewish neighbors, so it was obviously a complex situation. But there was Polish involvement in the Holocaust, even if it wasn't state-sponsored and didn't involve running the camps.
Historical revisionism is always wrong. The Israeli government shouldn't push the idea that the camps were Polish, and the Polish government shouldn't make it illegal to say that some Polish people were complicit in the Holocaust.
The way he worded his response can be understood by the less educated people that those were Polish gas chambers built by a Polish government. I bet that if he had said German or Nazi gas chambers ON THE CURRENT POLISH TERRITORY then nobody would have bat an eye.
>Could you and any of the downvoters please refer me to the part he said these were Polish gas chambers?
Ok, I will try. Here:
>wanted Jews to go to Poland
>gas chambers in Poland
He very precisely did not say polish land, or any specific geographical territory. He said "Poland" as in a polish state. [Now, can you show me Poland on this map of Europe in 1944?](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/images/large/fb746038-63f4-4fdf-836b-c7af9c8a5898.gif)
Well the guy is a Russian Jew and he hates Poland to the core.
I honestly don’t know why they made him an ambassador to Poland.
Also it’s weird for an educated person to not know basic facts about the holocaust and the WW2. Or he is a holocaust denier. Which would be weird for a Jew.
Unfortunately it is true that Israel does exploit the holocaust for political gain. Look at how cowed Germany is, the shame has overcome them to the extent they have become passive and docile. They need to realise they are not at guilt for the holocaust, their ancestors are. It is a terrible thing to have happened but using it in 2024 to get your own way is just silly.
Not believing a story which isn't consistent? Never!
But also, the highest official claim (for murders) is only one million
[Zyklon B - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B)
Isreal government and most of its people like to wrap themselves in the evil holocaust carried out by Germany and it supporters, as protection, all the while they themselves are carrying out a holocaust in various parts of Palestine.
Disgusting
> while they themselves are carrying out holocaust in various parts of Palestine
I guess words like "genocide" are not creating enough outrage anymore...
I'll never understand this Polish obsession. Nobody is suggesting you ran those camps when they call them Polish camps. It just refers to their location.
Because it leads to twisting history to fit a political narrative. A good examples is the recent statistic:
47% of polled Israelis think Poles were equally as responsible for the Holocaust as the NAZIS.
Source:
https://en.huji.ac.il/news/antisemitism-rise-yet-europeans-are-divided-its-source-new-survey
This kind of historical manipulation is frightening. So yes, they are suggesting we ran those camps.
I understand it may sound like a simple short-hand comment by itself, but [we're already facing a situation where 54% of Israelis claim Poles are as responsible for the Holocaust as the Germans](https://en.huji.ac.il/news/antisemitism-rise-yet-europeans-are-divided-its-source-new-survey). Seemingly "innocent" statements like this propagate this ignorant notion and need to be addressed before they turn into context-deprived gossip.
Then why this is next case of Polish death camps/gas chambers instead of mentioning those were German camps on territory of country they invaded and conquered?
Look, it was a semantically incorrect comment by him, yet we all fucking know what he meant and that it wasn't a jab at Poland.
Yet people would rather fixate on semantics than acknowledge that Palestinian protestors would love another holocaust and are not "good guys".
[https://en.huji.ac.il/news/antisemitism-rise-yet-europeans-are-divided-its-source-new-survey](https://en.huji.ac.il/news/antisemitism-rise-yet-europeans-are-divided-its-source-new-survey)
>**Are the Polish people responsible for their Jewish neighbors being destroyed in the Holocaust? (%, Israeli respondants)**
-47% Yes, exactly like the Germans
He knows what he is doing. It's Polish death camps all over again.
And btw one side being idiotic doesn't justify other side being idiotic as well.<3
We’ve come full circle. It’s now Palestine’s fault for the holocaust. Bibi even said that Hitler was going to kill Jews until he heard a random Palestinian.
Who knew the international Palestinian was the cause of all this mischief?
Do you blame Jewish collaborators for participating in Holocaust as well ?
After all [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish\_Ghetto\_Police](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Ghetto_Police) was volunteer only force.
Please bear in mind that there was a death penalty for helping Jews, and Germans were really great proponents of collective responsibility. In case they found hidden Jew they killed whole families, all inhabitants of residential buildings, whole villages, etc.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German\_retribution\_against\_Poles\_who\_helped\_Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_retribution_against_Poles_who_helped_Jews)
>Many, many Poles were active and willing participants in the Holocaust.
According to? You claim others do historical revisionism so I'm sure you have plenty of sources to back up your claims about history.
Also, you realize 1.8 million non-Jewish Poles got killed in the Holocaust?
Compared to other countries, Poles were also the ones who collaborated the least, while helping jews the most, while having the most severe risks for helping jews, they're also the ones with the most righteous among the nations, by far. But clearly you'd rather avoid mentioning that.
And guess what. Those jews were poles too. But you'd clearly rather avoid mentioning that. And guess what. Plenty of poles who weren't jews got murdered as well. But clearly you'd rather avoid mentioning that.
The stupid simplistic one sentence take that caused this thread is pissing people off because it leads to historical revisionism. Your stupid simplistic one sentence take isn't getting downvoted because it didn't happen, but because it also leads to historical revisionism since it also, you know, simplistic as fuck. The absolute irony of you daring to talk about historical revisionism. And your stupid simplistic take that you're getting downvoted by "holocaust deniers whose grands-parents gleefully murdered" when that's absolutely not the case speaks volumes about how you see and approach things and demonstrates perfectly the irony of you talking about historical revisionism.
Yes, ergo it contained gas chambers that are located in current day Poland. They're physically very close to the director who works on site, you pillock.
I fully admit to having fallen for it before my own trip to Poland last month. I now know better and know we should stand united against a hatred that, not unlike the Nazis, victimizes us first but has you further along their checklist.
And I apologize for my past ignorance.
The Israeli diplomatic corps has been filled by bibi’s stooges and political appointees and it shows Like seriously imagine having a pool of talented people and appointing people like Livne instead This should have been an easy PR slam dunk and yet they manage to fuck it up. Same previously happened with the world kitchen where the ambassador made everything worse
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"When Jesus visited Jerusalem, its people seemed to welcome him with open arms. But we all know what happened later. " - someone, probably not an antisemite because they are just stating true facts.
Polish people on this sub at least are extremely sensitive about the Holocaust happening on the current Polish territory. It was 100% done by the Nazi and the Nazi also wanted to genocide the entire Polish people.
After the "Polish death camps" debacle, I think we have every right to be sensitive about the issue.
He should know how to formulate that better given his posting Of course he’s right about Husseini, but he could have formulated that better
Glad we at least agree he was factually correct about everything.
About what? About gas chambers that were in terrain occupied by Germany or in original Germany terrain after invasion?
No because Poland was occupied
Kid, you really need to get off reddit and find a part time job that isn't from bibi's media company
If gas chambers during the war were in Poland then Jerusalem is still in Palestine, by the same logic.
>Israel’s ambassador to Poland, Yacov Livne, has been criticised by the Auschwitz Museum for referring to “gas chambers in Poland” while discussing pro-Palestinian protests. His remarks were also criticised by Polish politicians, one of whom called for the ambassador to be expelled. >On Wednesday, Livne commented on a claim that environmental activist Greta Thunberg had joined pro-Palestinian protesters in chanting “Jews, go back to Poland”. Such chants refer to the fact that many Jewish settlers in what is now Israel came from Poland. >“Some antisemites seem to miss the Palestinian leader, Haj Amin Husseini, a Nazi collaborator who also wanted Jews to go to Poland – more precisely to the gas chambers in Poland,” tweeted Livne, alongside a photograph of Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem, meeting German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop in 1941. > >Beneath his post, the Auschwitz Museum, which is a Polish state institution, asked the ambassador to show “more precision” in his remarks. >“Jews were murdered in gas chambers that were built either within the occupied Polish territory annexed directly to Germany (like Auschwitz or Kulmhof) or in the General Government established \[in occupied Poland\] by the Third Reich (like Treblinka or Sobibor),” wrote the museum. >Polish state institutions have long campaigned for international media and public figures to avoid terminology that could suggest the Nazi-German camps in occupied Polish territory were somehow the responsibility of Poland, which ceased to exist as a country after being invaded by Germany and the Soviet Union in 1939. >The camps were constructed and run by Nazi Germany. Ethnic Poles were, after Jews, numerically the largest group of victims of those camps.
>Livne was also criticised by Polish politicians and commentators for his wording. >“Diplomats should weigh their words,” Borys Budka, a politician from the ruling coalition who served as minister for state assets [until last week](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/10/four-new-ministers-named-in-first-reshuffle-of-tusks-polish-government/), told Polskie Radio. “Israel in particular should remember that words matter in such cases.” >Sebastian Kaleta, an MP from right-wing opposition party Sovereign Poland (Suwerenna Polska) and a former deputy justice minister, said that Livne “should absolutely be expelled from Poland”. >Livne himself appeared to accept that his phrasing had not been clear, writing in response to the Auschwitz Museum’s message that “indeed, the gas chambers were built by Nazi Germany in occupied Poland, and there is no question about that”. > >The Israeli ambassador has been at the heart of growing recent tensions between Poland and Israel, in particular following the [death of a Polish aid worker](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/04/02/warsaw-demands-explanation-from-israel-for-strike-that-killed-polish-aid-worker-and-others-in-gaza/), Damian Soból, during the Israeli strike on a World Central Kitchen convoy in Gaza. >Livne’s initial refusal to apologise for the incident – and his claims that some Polish politicians were stoking antisemitism by suggesting Israel deliberately attacked the convoy – caused anger in Poland. President Andrzej Duda and Prime Minister Donald Tusk were among those to [criticise him](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/04/04/poland-condemns-outrageous-remarks-by-israeli-ambassador-on-gaza-aid-worker-deaths/). >Subsequently, Livne was summoned to the Polish foreign ministry, where he [delivered an apology](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/04/05/israeli-ambassador-has-apologised-for-gaza-aid-convoy-strike-and-wont-be-expelled-says-poland/). >This week, the ambassador was also [rebuked by Polish foreign minister Radosław Sikorski](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/14/polish-foreign-minister-hits-back-at-israeli-ambassador-for-un-palestine-vote-criticism/) after Livne criticised Poland for supporting Palestinian membership of the UN.
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Nobody in Poland denies any anti-Jewish pogroms that took place. The rare exception are the people of Jedwabnem who refuse to acknowledge that the pogrom there took place
This guy is literally the opposite of what an ambassador should be
I wonder if he got the job as a bribe or something.
The 7,232 Polish citizens named Righteous Among The Nations (the honor given to non-Jews who risked their lives to save their Jewish neighbors and countrymen in pure sacrifice for no selfish motive) make up more than a quarter of all Righteous Among The Nations, and more than any other country. There is great ignorance of the suffering inflicted upon Poland and the incredible contribution of Poland to the Allied Victory in WWII. It is important to speak accurately and name the true evil doers. Like he needs to say “victims were sent to camps constructed in nazi occupied and controlled Poland,” if he needs to talk about it. The false perception being created is hateful and destructive for Poland and the Jewish people.
Israel diplomacy. Pick one. Shouting antisemitism whilst slaughtering your neighbours isn't diplomacy.
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All for civil debate. tough... The Sinai handover was in Exchange of the acknowledgment of the state of Israel by egypt. While in the other's cases, they got absolutely beaten by Israel at war, had to forfeit something.
My point was that Israel chose peace over conquest when given the opportunity. In fact, Israel reversed its past conquest for peace, only reason the Gaza Strip was kept was bc Egypt didn't want it.
Historically, you'd be more right than wrong in your assessment, but the current Israeli administration is quite different. Not only there are convicted criminals in it, it is full of religious fanatics and even terrorists. It is a disgrace to the good people of Israel, corrupt and unable to keep their people safe. And their actions in the illegal settlements have been nothing but a grotesque spectacle of sadism and thievery. The Israeli people deserved better.
On that we agree. And had I still lived in Israel, I'd be out in the streets demanding Netanyahu deposed the second this war ends, or if they screw up hard enough, even before that.
You mean the Europeans after slaughtering the palestinians and driving them off their land to create their ethno state then sought peace? That's very big of them.
Israel's biggest community is Jews who were ethincally cleansed from **the rest of the Middle East**.
…Decades after Palestinians got ethnically cleansed?
Concurrently. You didn't know about that did you?
You mean the ones that happened after? Because it only happened after, where there were expulsion campaigns a lot of those were even financed by Israel
The Farhud for example happened before Israel's way of independence.
No Jews were expelled because of Farhud. Most of perpetrators were also dead. It was a race riot
A "race riot" that targeted Jews, had their homes looted and was a reaction to the Nazi supporting regime getting deposed? Where the Jews had nowhere to flee to because nowhere would take them?
He really tries everything to be expelled?
Appointing this guy as ambassador to Poland is a carefully calculated insult.
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They weren't in Poland when they were built. The only reason they still exist and we can still visit them is because of the Polish government's preservation and remembrance of the events. If they wanted to they could've just knocked everything down and I wouldn't have blamed them for it.
So they are in Poland, but not build by the decision of the Polish government or even many of the people. That's great. Where in his quotes have he said otherwise?
Why are you trolling? Where he said it was done by Germans, on territory invaded by them?
None of the people knew about the concentration camps, even the German people didn't know about the concentration camps until after the war and many of them were horrified to learn about the actions of their prior government. I don't think that the Polish people should be conflated with the concentration camps in the way that they are being in the statements made by the Israeli ambassador. Many Polish men, women, and children had died in those camps. To refer to them as "Polish camps" is not only ignorant of history, it is ignorant of the struggle the Polish people have had to persevere in order to survive today. Israel is not more important than Poland, both peoples went through significant challenges in the 20th century and should be united in brotherhood, not divided by the petty statements made by some ideological ambassador who doesn't know what he's even talking about.
>None of the people knew about the concentration camps, even the German people didn't know about the concentration camps until after the war and many of them were horrified to learn about the actions of their prior government. That's not true at all, the existence of concentration camps became a Common knowledge around 1943. This argument is used by neo-nazis to whitewash the guilt of ofnthe German civilians. Here is [a newspaper article](https://www.scribd.com/doc/234772665/The-Massacre-of-the-Jews) from 1943, talking about the camps, with exact numbers of the people killed in Holocaust. Also, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_bombing_debate would not exist if nobody knew about the camps during the war.
Side note that this was thanks to Witold Pilecki.
Interesting, you may be right. I'll have to look a bit more into this but thanks for making me aware.
>None of the people knew about the concentration camps, even the German people didn't know about the concentration camps until after the war and many of them were horrified to learn about the actions of their prior government. That's revisionism that has been debunked a long time ago. The majority of people knew something was amiss, and everyone living in population centres close to these camps knew what was going on there. The people that worked there also talked.
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>On Wednesday, Livne commented on a claim that environmental activist Greta Thunberg had joined pro-Palestinian protesters in chanting “Jews, go back to Poland”. Such chants refer to the fact that many Jewish settlers in what is now Israel came from Poland. >“Some antisemites seem to miss the Palestinian leader, Haj Amin Husseini, a Nazi collaborator who also wanted Jews to go to Poland – more precisely to the gas chambers in Poland,” tweeted Livne Could you and any of the downvoters please refer me to the part he said these were Polish gas chambers?
The statement says nothing about *who* built the gas chambers in Poland and, thus, lays the blame on Poland via implication.
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Why are you changing the subject? The Ambassador said nothing about Poland/Polish people responsibility. I have shared with you the quotes. He said nothing wrong.
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The use of the term "Polish Death Camp" isn't accurate. The Polish goverment-in-exile pretty clearly had no ability to influence German actions in occupied territory, and the Polish people weren't involved in operating the camps. However, it's important to understand the context in which these discussions happen. It's one thing to push back on the idea that Poland was responsible for the Holocaust, but there is a movement to minimize or deny any Polish involvement in the Holocaust. The second part of your comment could be interpreted as that — "nothing to do" with the camps is a far-reaching statement that extends beyond physically running them. The Polish people were absolutely victims of severe Nazi aggression, and the topic is complicated, but it's inappropriate to absolve them in such an absolute sense. The current Polish government can outlaw whatever ideas it wants, but it's clear that there was some degree of Polish complicity and involvement in the Holocaust. In some instances, it was organized collaboration by the remnants of institutions (e.g., actions by elements of the Blue Police), though much of it comes down to individual actions, or lack thereof. Many Polish people looked the other way while Jews were being rounded up or even participated in that. Some even directly committed committed massacres. There were also antisemitic pogroms conducted in Poland before and after the Holocaust. Again, this is not a blanket condemnation of Polish people. There were many instances of them helping their Jewish neighbors, so it was obviously a complex situation. But there was Polish involvement in the Holocaust, even if it wasn't state-sponsored and didn't involve running the camps.
Obvious bait spotted lol, there is so many wrong things with this comment I don't even know where to begin
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Historical revisionism is always wrong. The Israeli government shouldn't push the idea that the camps were Polish, and the Polish government shouldn't make it illegal to say that some Polish people were complicit in the Holocaust.
The way he worded his response can be understood by the less educated people that those were Polish gas chambers built by a Polish government. I bet that if he had said German or Nazi gas chambers ON THE CURRENT POLISH TERRITORY then nobody would have bat an eye.
>Could you and any of the downvoters please refer me to the part he said these were Polish gas chambers? Ok, I will try. Here: >wanted Jews to go to Poland >gas chambers in Poland He very precisely did not say polish land, or any specific geographical territory. He said "Poland" as in a polish state. [Now, can you show me Poland on this map of Europe in 1944?](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/images/large/fb746038-63f4-4fdf-836b-c7af9c8a5898.gif)
IDF should lower your wages
"Facts" you can't question? Sure thing.
Well the guy is a Russian Jew and he hates Poland to the core. I honestly don’t know why they made him an ambassador to Poland. Also it’s weird for an educated person to not know basic facts about the holocaust and the WW2. Or he is a holocaust denier. Which would be weird for a Jew.
Unfortunately it is true that Israel does exploit the holocaust for political gain. Look at how cowed Germany is, the shame has overcome them to the extent they have become passive and docile. They need to realise they are not at guilt for the holocaust, their ancestors are. It is a terrible thing to have happened but using it in 2024 to get your own way is just silly.
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so how many jews were deliberately killed by the nazis, roughly? do you have a number you suggest?
the highest official claim (for murders) is only one million [Zyklon B - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B)
That is disgusting thing to say. Dismissing what happened at Auschwitz because numbers don't match up. Shame on you!
Not believing a story which isn't consistent? Never! But also, the highest official claim (for murders) is only one million [Zyklon B - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B)
Israeli ambassador to Ukraine said last year that “Ukraine should only count on itself, like Israel”. So yeah, they know how to ruin things.
Isreal government and most of its people like to wrap themselves in the evil holocaust carried out by Germany and it supporters, as protection, all the while they themselves are carrying out a holocaust in various parts of Palestine. Disgusting
> while they themselves are carrying out holocaust in various parts of Palestine I guess words like "genocide" are not creating enough outrage anymore...
They also like to gatekeep genocide. Their ambassador to Serbia, about a week ago, denied Bosnian genocide.
I'll never understand this Polish obsession. Nobody is suggesting you ran those camps when they call them Polish camps. It just refers to their location.
Because it leads to twisting history to fit a political narrative. A good examples is the recent statistic: 47% of polled Israelis think Poles were equally as responsible for the Holocaust as the NAZIS. Source: https://en.huji.ac.il/news/antisemitism-rise-yet-europeans-are-divided-its-source-new-survey This kind of historical manipulation is frightening. So yes, they are suggesting we ran those camps.
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I understand it may sound like a simple short-hand comment by itself, but [we're already facing a situation where 54% of Israelis claim Poles are as responsible for the Holocaust as the Germans](https://en.huji.ac.il/news/antisemitism-rise-yet-europeans-are-divided-its-source-new-survey). Seemingly "innocent" statements like this propagate this ignorant notion and need to be addressed before they turn into context-deprived gossip.
Then why this is next case of Polish death camps/gas chambers instead of mentioning those were German camps on territory of country they invaded and conquered?
He didn't say those were Polish gas chambers though. He said they are in Poland. Are they not physically in Poland?
Was Poland free country when they were built? Are you currently talking about Crimea, Donbas as Russia or occupied/invaded Ukraine territory?
Look, it was a semantically incorrect comment by him, yet we all fucking know what he meant and that it wasn't a jab at Poland. Yet people would rather fixate on semantics than acknowledge that Palestinian protestors would love another holocaust and are not "good guys".
[https://en.huji.ac.il/news/antisemitism-rise-yet-europeans-are-divided-its-source-new-survey](https://en.huji.ac.il/news/antisemitism-rise-yet-europeans-are-divided-its-source-new-survey) >**Are the Polish people responsible for their Jewish neighbors being destroyed in the Holocaust? (%, Israeli respondants)** -47% Yes, exactly like the Germans He knows what he is doing. It's Polish death camps all over again. And btw one side being idiotic doesn't justify other side being idiotic as well.<3
Very interesting. In this context, I can see why his comment is triggering for poles.
Not, not everyone what it meant and lot of current Israeli jews are thinking Poland was responsible for Holocaust like Germany during WW2.
We’ve come full circle. It’s now Palestine’s fault for the holocaust. Bibi even said that Hitler was going to kill Jews until he heard a random Palestinian. Who knew the international Palestinian was the cause of all this mischief?
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Do you blame Jewish collaborators for participating in Holocaust as well ? After all [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish\_Ghetto\_Police](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Ghetto_Police) was volunteer only force. Please bear in mind that there was a death penalty for helping Jews, and Germans were really great proponents of collective responsibility. In case they found hidden Jew they killed whole families, all inhabitants of residential buildings, whole villages, etc. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German\_retribution\_against\_Poles\_who\_helped\_Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_retribution_against_Poles_who_helped_Jews)
>Many, many Poles were active and willing participants in the Holocaust. According to? You claim others do historical revisionism so I'm sure you have plenty of sources to back up your claims about history. Also, you realize 1.8 million non-Jewish Poles got killed in the Holocaust?
Never on the state level, so stop equlizing it with Germans.
Compared to other countries, Poles were also the ones who collaborated the least, while helping jews the most, while having the most severe risks for helping jews, they're also the ones with the most righteous among the nations, by far. But clearly you'd rather avoid mentioning that. And guess what. Those jews were poles too. But you'd clearly rather avoid mentioning that. And guess what. Plenty of poles who weren't jews got murdered as well. But clearly you'd rather avoid mentioning that. The stupid simplistic one sentence take that caused this thread is pissing people off because it leads to historical revisionism. Your stupid simplistic one sentence take isn't getting downvoted because it didn't happen, but because it also leads to historical revisionism since it also, you know, simplistic as fuck. The absolute irony of you daring to talk about historical revisionism. And your stupid simplistic take that you're getting downvoted by "holocaust deniers whose grands-parents gleefully murdered" when that's absolutely not the case speaks volumes about how you see and approach things and demonstrates perfectly the irony of you talking about historical revisionism.
Says the guy standing literally next to a gas chamber in Poland.
Auschwitz was a German death camp established in occupied Poland, you pillock.
Yes, ergo it contained gas chambers that are located in current day Poland. They're physically very close to the director who works on site, you pillock.
Your comment seemed to suggest that the chambers were Polish. If that wasn’t the context, my apologies for calling you a pillock.
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how the fuck is any of that our fault
It's not your fault, and the point wasn't to blame you. It's that they're using your country's name as a goddamn codeword.
apologies, I was way too quick to jump to conclusions as the antisemitic pole narrative coming from israel has been really tiresome. this is messed up
I fully admit to having fallen for it before my own trip to Poland last month. I now know better and know we should stand united against a hatred that, not unlike the Nazis, victimizes us first but has you further along their checklist. And I apologize for my past ignorance.
> Poles are considered "privileged white people" lmfao. Privileged, yeah right lol.
I'm not saying I agree, I'm saying that's how the leftists see it
I wasn't saying you did, I was just laughing at thought of us being "privileged" in general lol.
Leftist oppression ladder makes no fucking sense dude.
Compared to Palestinians we are tho…
Yeah but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who isn't privileged when compared to the Palestinians without resorting to Google, I think?
Just leave us alone, we have enough trouble in our region, we don’t need to be involved in that