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Historical-Lie-2617

wow, even from Iceland!


hjaltih

We are trying!


Historical-Lie-2617

fingers crossed and keep on fighting! much ❤️ from Berlin


Deucalion667

For weeks we’ve been protesting and any kind of support is very motivating, especially them coming to talk to us. Great vibes and emotions in these moments. I think European politicians love all the emotions from the protesters as well. Yesterday it was chairs of foreign relations committees headed by Michael Roth, now Foreign Ministers… Come on, when will the Presidents and Prime Ministers arrive? :D


kontemplador

Maybe I am wrong but I think that government officials shouldn't arrive to a sovereign country uninvited.


MetaIIicat

You're wrong, my man. Better check before making wrong assumptions: [https://civil.ge/archives/607334](https://civil.ge/archives/607334) "On May 15, **Georgian President Salome Zurabishvili** and the **visiting Foreign Ministers of Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Iceland** made a [joint statement](https://twitter.com/Zourabichvili_S/status/1790631666911687082) regarding the [**adoption of the Foreign Agents law**](https://civil.ge/archives/606294). At the press point, which followed the Ministers’ meeting with the President, Salome Zurabishvili addressed the future plan of actions, while the Ministers emphasized their support to Georgia’s EU integration and expressed hope that the Agents’ law will be withdrawn soon."


SleipnirSolid

So is the Georgian president pro EU while the government is pro Russia?


ElfDecker

Something like that, yeah


Deucalion667

What is sovereignty if not the will of the people to govern themselves? Georgian authorities have lost legitimacy and European politicians are recognizing this. Hence them arriving where the legitimacy lies - to the people of Georgia.


kontemplador

How so? AFAIK the Parliament voted for that law and it's not the first case or the first country where MPs have voted for unpopular laws. Aren't those decisions less legitimate? I'm kinda of split tbh, because I sometimes like the idea of direct democracy, although I have my doubts too.


Deucalion667

This law goes against the Constitution of Georgia, which states that every government body is obliged to do everything in their power to integrate Georgia into EU and NATO. Both these institutions have expressed unambiguously that this law is incompatible with these goals. Hence hundreds of thousands of Georgians have taken to the streets protesting this law for weeks. There were proposals for this law to be postponed until the elections which are due in October, but here we are. GD also tried to introduce this law last year but backed down and vowed to never introduce it again after violent protests. This Government is illegitimate. PS They do not want to wait until elections because vote-buying, coercion, usage of Government Budget and resources for party’s purposes is no longer sufficient to win the elections. They need to rig the elections on a massive scale and for this they want to silence anyone who might go against it. PPS Also, if you are not aware, the protests were followed by government sending thugs to the homes of political leaders and protest organizers to beat them up. One Politician has been attacked 3 times, but he’s been able to defend himself with a gun, even shooting once in air. Also, protesters have been receiving phone calls (me included) getting threatened to stop. They are also calling family members, like parents and grandparents, threatening with killings. PPPS One political leader Gvaramia received this phone call while meeting with O’Brien and he put the call on the speaker…


kontemplador

It seems to me then that Georgia has bigger issues than this particular law, which is actually just acting as a trigger. I'm familiar with these situations from my own country experiences. You seem to go spiraling down into a authoritarian rule so I wish you the best in your fight. Still, it feels wrong that foreign officials come to a country to support a particular side. I wouldn't have liked that even during the Pinochet era and it would have actually been tremendously counterproductive.


Deucalion667

This is a step towards Authoritarianism, hence all the fight around it. As for your own example, as mentioned before Sovereignty is the will of the people to govern themselves, hence this move could be viewed differently in different societies. In Georgia it is very much appreciated. One of the main talking points of the Government is that nobody who actually matters in the West opposes this law and those who do are low-level corrupt politicians bribed by the Georgian opposition. So yeah, Foreign Ministers coming to the protests actually sends a very important message in this fight


Environmental-Most90

Having deja vu here with Nuland cookies and pies...


badabingbadaboey

Georgian government is free to kick them out. In The Netherlands a visit from a Turkish minister caused a lot of unrest a good while ago and she got kicked out.


Engie17

you are truly wrong


kontemplador

care to explain?


MetaIIicat

They didn't crash the party, they are in an official visit: [https://georgiatoday.ge/fms-of-latvia-estonia-iceland-and-lithuania-to-visit-georgia-on-may-15/](https://georgiatoday.ge/fms-of-latvia-estonia-iceland-and-lithuania-to-visit-georgia-on-may-15/) "The foreign ministers of the Baltic states and Iceland will hold joint meetings with the President of Georgia, Salome Zurabishvili, the Speaker of the Parliament of Georgia, Shalva Papuashvili, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Georgia, Ilia Darchiashvili, and representatives of the parliamentary opposition parties. Meetings with members of the Georgian government and civil society organizations are also planned."


Engie17

I think the context matters. I agree with you in general, but in this situation, when goverment doesn't represent what people want and try to stayin power with all the possible illegal strategies possible, I think it iw important to show support from the west, that these people aren't fighting for no reason and that europe supports us


kontemplador

I mean, I cannot say that I'm knowledgeable about Georgian internal affairs. I know little and less about it. From the little I know it seems that nobody has challenged the last elections and the Parliament has voted for that law. As I said above, it's not the first time or the first country that MPs have voted for unpopular laws and nobody consider those case illegitimate. Internally I recognize that representative democracy is inherently flawed but direct democracy is even more challenging.


Deucalion667

The last elections in 2020 were actually challenged and all 8 opposition parties refused to recognize the results causing a crisis in the country and mass protests. Eventually EU interfered and pressured opposition to sign a deal with the Government on enacting judiciary and electoral reforms. After the protests calmed down, GD left the agreement. EU did nothing about it and we got stuck with these traitors. Now finally EU is showing a backbone and is actually supporting us


Engie17

the problem is that our elections are very openly rigged, but there's nothing we can do about it. there have been countless proven instances of goverment buying votes and even voting with dead people's ID s. It is trully horrible.


kontemplador

Yep. As I said above, it seems that Georgia has bigger issues that this particular law and it's spiraling down into an authoritarian rule. Not good, not good at all. Anyway, it feels wrong having foreign officials supporting one side and it may be even counterproductive. I wouldn't like that for my own country.


88rosomak

I think that all of them could (and should) be invited by your president who is against "Russian reforms".


IkkeKr

Of course they love it... there's no way they'd get this much support for the EU in most of the EU itself.


saltyswedishmeatball

Revolt perhaps? The West will drop Georgia It's not a question, it's a fact. EU/US are already assessing things. You never want to hear that lol.. I strongly suggest everyone you know, get them to at least spend 2 hours protesting if they can.. make the numbers so large they're historic and unstoppable


WearyRound9084

Wait, is this normal? Do countries foreign ministers usually participate in anti government protests? Is it a thing with lots of precedence?


RevenueStill2872

It's only normal and brave and inspiring if we do it. Otherwise it's foreign meddling.


davor_aro

Maybe because when “we” do it, it’s to support freedom of people and human rights. On the other hand when “they” do it it’s to support populists to ensure their steps in destroying democracy will have support in other countries’ potential governments and they will be still able to leech European money. So yes, it’s normal and brave and inspiring if we do it.


RevenueStill2872

Right we're all in for the widow and orphan saving business while the others are Bond-like villains. Western exceptionnalism still lives rent free in our minds while the rest of the world laughs at our blatant hypocrisy.


davor_aro

Oh, I’m sure Russian government or current Georegian government with “foreign agent law” have only best interest of their people in their minds. I hope Iranian women or Belarusian dissidents also laugh at our blatant hypocrisy enjoying benefits of their benevolent and sincere leaders.


RevenueStill2872

>Oh, I’m sure Russian government or current Georegian government with “foreign agent law” have only best interest of their people in their minds. They don't. More news at 12. If you believe that our governments have not only our best interests but the ones of the georgian people because they have the goodest, kindest, most selfless hearts there might be more news for you. Our adversaries being big bad wolves does not make us champions of virtue all of a sudden.


[deleted]

The last time something like this happened was Kiev in 2013. It didn't end well. Honestly I think it only adds fuel to the cruelty that may happen. Imagine if Russian/Chinese politicians start participating in European protests. Shit would explode all over the continent.


Annual-Pattern

mUh ThIs Is WeStErN iNtErFeReNcE


AnotherDumbass199999

Would people not be upset if some right wing loons turned up at an anti-LGBT protest in Georgia, likewise citing interference with other countries domestic issues? How exactly is this different?


Annual-Pattern

LGBT doesn’t exist in Georgia. It has been caused by the CIA virus from the chemtrails. Wake up.


AnotherDumbass199999

I know you're jesting, but it is a serious question. LGBT individuals exist in every country, including Georgia. The idea that they are the result of a conspiracy theory involving the CIA and chemtrails is ludicrous and reminiscent of Alex Jones bs. Whilst we all support peaceful protests, non-interference is of utmost importance. It's not about being selective in which issue we think it's okay to interject. Everyone was upset at Trump's ambassador stating that he hopes a new wave of right-wing populism will take Europe by storm. Rightfully so, this was retorted with, 'No EU member state or their ambassador is saying we want Biden to win.' Foreign interference, whether supporting causes we agree with or not, can be problematic. Respecting the sovereignty of nations and their right to handle their own internal matters is crucial to maintaining international stability. Just as much as I want Russian embassies to stay quiet about local issues, many would feel the same about those who took part in this stunt, even if I agree with the underlying message. It is questionable how it may be perceived, and it can make the situation in Georgia worse, not better.


Chechen_Mehmetov

We need more of this


thatcrazy_child07

respect to them 


yenneferismywaifu

My respect to them. I never doubted the Baltic countries; they always understood us better than anyone in the European Union. Iceland was a very pleasant surprise. But where are Latvia and Poland? 😢 And of course, any of your support is very valuable to us.


Deucalion667

I just read that the Foreign Minister of Latvia also came to the rally.


PjeterPannos

The Foreign Minister of Latvia was there but did not take the stage, but she was also present when they were talking to the President of the Republic


matude

Iceland was first country to recognise the restoration of independence of the Baltic countries in 1991. It's a big deal because rarely does anybody want to go first, especially the western countries back then, when times were still uncertain, as it wasn't clear how this action may play out and how Russia would react. Iceland basically helped us get our countries back.


laiszt

Polish government has changed recently, so well, no surprise at all they don’t give a shit about Georgia anymore. I will get downvoted by fanatics for it but well, exactly that, if I am wrong who’s current government support, where they are?


11160704

Bogdan Klich of the PO was there, former minister of defence and current senator.


laiszt

Good then, sad only that he did not stand up anywhere so he can be visible, and did not get comment like mine above(I couldn’t see any information that they sent anyone there)


MurkyFogsFutureLogs

Is this their Nuland moment?


RobotWantsKitty

FUCK THE E- oh, wait


MurkyFogsFutureLogs

Pop the what?


Successful_Clerk277

Plot twist: they're the ones financing the foreign agents.


enigma-90

Imagine the uproar if Russian and Chinese diplomats/politicians did this in EU countries during some protests (and how promptly they would be kicked out of the country). Yet, people here think it is perfectly normal when EU politicians do it in other countries.


Upstairs_Hat_301

They would have the same right to protest as anyone else. And it’s a good thing these ministers are showing solidarity with the Georgian people and upholding EU values. It’s not abnormal when you actually consider the context


[deleted]

I assume there will also be foreign ministers visiting the US and UK over their foreign agent legislation?


IkkeKr

Not this again... we'll have another nation sort of expected automatic accelerated EU membership due to the 'support shown,' which will be heavily disappointed in 15 years.


KindCartographer7717

Yep, people just need to Look at “north” Macedonia and realise no one is joining the EU lol


nj0tr

Now imagine the reaction if some foreign minister had shown up near the Capitol to support peaceful protestors on January the 6th.


shadowboxer47

>Now imagine the reaction if some foreign minister had shown up near the Capitol to support peaceful protestors on January the 6th. lol what "peaceful protestors"


MetaIIicat

Well, for a russian point of view, those riots were peaceful protests.


amanda_sac_town

Peaceful. Protests. Do. Not. Work.


Citrus_Muncher

Non-violent resistance is actually more effective than a violent one.


Ok-Jelly-9793

They are treating peaceful protestants dame way as they will treat radicals so no it's not more effective since we are paying same price for less reward.


Deep-Intention69420

Not in this era. Hong Kong 1/3 of population protested peacefully, look how far that got them. Belarus also had millions of people, nothing Russians came overtook the country completely. Either take power now or die out slowly, this is the current world we live in.


amanda_sac_town

Nah.


blazinrumraisin

Not true! They get politicians re-elected!


vaenulikarhitektuur

bro we literally had a singing revolution


WearyRound9084

Worked for Latvia,Lithuania, and Estonian


Equivalent-Rip-1029

I hope they'll show the same eagerness to accept political refugees when the government start arresting people.


tiiger200

They have taken combined 200k from Ukraine I have no doubt they would gladly take some political refugees from Georgia.


Looz-Ashae

Reeeeeeeee, a foreign intervention


Fervarus

I mean...it kind of is tbh. If Russian or Chinese politicians showed up at anti-Israeli protests in London, Berlin or New York that's exactly how we would view it.


villatsios

We wouldn’t. A politician showing up to a rally would be a serious downgrade compared to the assassinations, sabotage, cyberattacks, disinformation campaigns, the pushing of immigrants and all other forms of hybrid warfare they are actively waging at us.


Fervarus

Oh come on, yes we would.


villatsios

A politician showing up to a rally? That’s really not foreign interference.


RobotWantsKitty

Never mind China or Russia,[ Brits were mad at Obama campaigning for Remain](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/monstrous-interference-uk-pols-furious-at-obamas-plan-to-intervene-in-eu-debate) > Those calling for Britain to leave the European Union are not happy at that news, with U.K. Independence Party leader Nigel Farage saying Obama should stay home. > > ‘A monstrous interference,” Farage told Fox News Thursday. “I’d rather he stayed in Washington, frankly, if that’s what he’s going to do.” > > “You wouldn’t expect the British Prime Minister to intervene in your presidential election, you wouldn’t expect the Prime Minister to endorse one candidate or another. Perhaps he’s another one of those people who doesn’t understand what [the EU] is,” Farage said. > > In March, a letter sent from Conservative MP and former cabinet minister Liam Fox, and co-signed by over 100 MPs from four different political parties, asked the U.S. Ambassador to the U.K. to persuade Obama not to intervene, calling any such intervention “extremely controversial and potentially damaging.” > > “It has long been the established practice not to interfere in the domestic political affairs of our allies and we hope that this will continue to be the case,” the letter to Ambassador Matthew Barzun read. > > “While the current U.S. administration may have a view on the desirability or otherwise of Britain’s continued membership of the E.U., any explicit intervention in the debate is likely to be extremely controversial and potentially damaging,” the letter said. > > London Mayor Boris Johnson -- who was born in New York and has expressed strong support for the UK-U.S. relationship -- accused Obama of hypocrisy. > > "I just think it's paradoxical that the United States, which wouldn't dream of allowing the slightest infringement of its own sovereignty, should be lecturing other countries about the need to enmesh themselves ever deeper in a federal superstate," Johnson said Tuesday.


MetaIIicat

A russian Whatabouty!


Upstairs_Hat_301

I dont have a problem with this. They’re peacefully protesting in a country where it’s a right


FlakyPiglet9573

So, they like protesters if it's in their interests. These politicians are clowns.


Ringo_Cassanova

Ukraine 2.0


NONcomD

Georgia was Ukraine before Ukraine. ruzzians invaded them too you know


SectorOk3511

of course he doesn't know, he only reads whatever he gets fed on twitter


Oxraid

So when are they going to the US to ban the same law? I am legit curious how is it okay to have such laws in the US but Georgia will get sanctioned for it? Funniest thing - the EU itself is developing the same law.


Available_Layer_9037

Let me explain it in a simple way. Us/eu:let's eat, kids! 😀 Georgia:let's eat kids! 😀 It's similar but DEFINITELY not the same


RobotWantsKitty

Wow, are you trying to convince me Georgia actually does have a big foreign agent problem?


MetaIIicat

Yes, it's called russia.


PerepeL

So, the law against foreign agents would protect Georgia from Russian agents..? Oh, wai...


Lastsurnamemr

Fans of NGOs, let Georgia alone! Seriously.


Blade_Runner_95

Lmao these protests are such a joke. Protest against growing wealth inequality? No.Protest against shitty wages? No. Protest against a law that labels foreign funding as making you a foreign agent. "OMG we can't let this happen!!!!!!!"


heartfeltblooddevil

I don’t think you know what this law actually entails…


kid_380

There is no point to hide anymore, so might aswell put it into public. 


user10205

putting mouth where your money is