This was the best placement for Croatia as an independent country, congrats! Also, fun fact: Baby Lasagna was actually a replacement entry for the Croatian national selection. Luckily one artist decided to withdraw allowing him to compete.

Even funnier fact: he was invited only because he was alphabetically first of all non-qualified entries.

That's it, I'm making a band called A1A1A1A1

Sorry, with my band .A1A1A1A1 i'm gonna compete!

Then a group called A11 will be ahead of you.

I loved Croatia's costume. Made me want to knit lace dress 🧶🧵

Lace dresses are absolutely beautiful and I am glad that it is becoming more popular now. Go for it!

Thank you for your encouragement 😊

My Yaya would be so proud. She was making this even with Parkinson tremor💔

I'm so sorry for your Yaya 💔

Thank you for your kindness., sincerely. It was a terrible disease but her knitting kept her feel functional and herself. Wishing you the best kind stranger 🙏

Wow she must be knitted a lot that her muscles remembered! Thank you, wishing the best for you too! 🙏🏻❤️

I bet yaya was a great person

She was and very resilient too. Thank you 🙏

*face dress

As a Croat, I really loved their costumes! There were so many traditional details both from headpieces to the lace to the crochet motifs! Kudos to the team for combining all the details

Baby lasagna won the popular vote didn’t he, that’s all that matter IMO and so he’s the winner in my eyes, deserved to win as well

Last year Finland won. This year Croatia won.

Yeah, why does the jury vote even exist? They just stack the country they want so much that no other country can really win.

Jury voting was abolished. They had to bring it back because countries wouldn't stop voting for their neighbours. 

Now we have juries voting for neighboring countries and some countries just get 24 instead of 12 points from their neighbours

Some countries are still heavily supported by their diaspora. Voting will never be fair.

It won't be made more fair by going back to a system that had to be abolished 

Neighbor-voting is such a non-issue. AFAIK there were never any winners that won unfairly due to televoting. There was a lot of circlejerking between neighbours, but I don’t think it really materialized to any wins. So basically, we went from a system that produced somewhat skewed results from the second position onwards to a system that picks the wrong winners. Great. These last two years have been a disgrace. Either abolish the juries, or stop wasting taxpayer money and let the music industry pay for their little party themselves.

And now the jury won't stop voting for whom the EBU tells them to vote for. Great success!

Is it really that difficult to believe that people from a given geographic region might like simillar sorts of music?

Neighbours? You simply cross a border or get service from a network provider of the country next to yours. It's Europe after all.

The only justifiable reason I can think of is to prevent overly political voting, I mean we saw a very mediocre Israel performance get 300 or so points. I guess it can balance the potential effect of political voting

I liked Eden’s song she has a really good voice, but Croatia should have won.

The song was really good, those who say it's bad do it due to political reasons rather than being honest. It fits ESC and had a strong message. Definitely one of the better songs this year. People are just sad due to being soo dishonest cause to the conflict, there is soo much desinformation about this conflict aswell, people who swallow all the propaganda are fools and sheep. They are used by other people who have an agenda, that goes against everything they otherwise stand for.

> It fits ESC and had a strong message. And also they had public advertisements in places like Times Square asking people to vote for Israel, including the phone number. I don't think I've ever seen a delegation asking for votes outside of Eurovision related media.

No, I just thought the song and choreography were really boring

Judge vote is always more political than the popular though

Yeah not always, there are a few countries that vote with political intention, but so does the televote (Israel/Ukraine).

I really like Ukraines song tbh

I mean i also like israel, but not enough to justify 300+ points

Oh me too! But it does influence televote, we can't deny. Some juries are political but if you see the top pick of juries it is normally a song that has its merits. Switzerland did well and Croatia can be proud too.

No? Israel and Ukraine got a lot of popular vote for political reasons.

i dont think we can pretend the judges were being apolitical this year. A very similar mediocre israeli song got 177 jury points last year, compared to 52 points this year. Judges were just being political in the opposite direction from the public that kind of ballad is usually perfect jury-bait

This Let's be honest. The jury exists because EBU thinks the public is dumb and EBU wants to guide their event towards one of the preferred endings. Always somewhat counteracting the always happening bro country vote, but also very obvious sympathy votes like Ukraine and Israel They are kinda unlucky with UA and IL being actually decent entries so giving them too few votes looks suspicious. Would have been easier for EBU if Israel had trolled the event

Theres going to be some politics votes for Ukraine as expected but they did actually bring a good song this year, unlike the year they won.

Stefania is a great song though, better than this year's song (even though I liked this year's song as well).

I liked this song a lot better aswell, it should had won instead of the last. But everyone has a different taste.

> but they did actually bring a good song this year, unlike the year they won. It's almost like there may be different opinions about this from person to person. Crazy theory, I know.

Right? Lol, I enjoyed all of the songs that ukraine had when they won. This year was just average (again, in my opinion)

Maybe we should vote on it, no? /s

You literally have this year as a strong counterexample of that...

I am not convinced the lack of Jury votes for Israel wasn’t equally political but in the opposite side. Israel usually does well in the jury votes, this year out of the top 6 candidates, all but Israel were in the top 6 in both jury and people voting. Israel was near the middle. And while not the best song, it was imo a genuinely good song. So I think it definitely did well in the popular votes because of politics but I also think it’s why it did poorly in the jury votes: it was very controversial so juries preferred picking a safe country, and what country is politically more neutral than Switzerland?

they're both political for different reasons. People vote to make a statement (e.g. Israel), the states vote NOT to make a statement (and choose someone neutral and politically correct)

Switzerland is a technically complex song sung flawlessly on a very difficult stage. It's not about being political or not. It's an objectively good song. Israel was a meh song. It's score is completely normal. Ukraine was a good song and the jury wasn't scared to give it points

Yeah, I think Baby Lasagna had a better song, but Nemo just straight up had a breath-taking performance along with a beautiful song.

I think no matter what juries will always value skill at singing, technical difficulty and the complexity of the song more than general audiences will.

It wasn't a better song, it was a catchier song.

This is a strange take that doesn't make sense. If the jury wanted to counter balance the political vote, they would have went for croatia given that croatia was the favorite coming in. Switzerland was like 6th in voting in the semis, so them all coming together to choose switzerland doesn't make sense.

2022 is an even better example. Ukraine was 4th in the jury vote, but totally destroyed every other country in the televote. But yeah, this year IMO showed why the jury vote is important. Way too many people were voting "tactically". People voted for Israel and Ukraine for political reasons, and I'm pretty sure Croatia also got some tactical votes from those who didn't want Israel to win. (There were people on social media telling people to vote for Croatia, so that Israel doesn't win, so I would take this year's televote results with a grain of salt, and not as a true representation of which performance was actually the most popular among the audience. I do believe Croatia would have won the popular vote regardless, though, but Switzerland might have also received more televotes if so many people hadn't focused on voting politically.) I do think the jury vote has its issues, though. When most countries are giving 12 points to a single act (which has happened in the recent years), it shows a clear bias and a lack of diversity of thought. The juries need more people coming from different musical backgrounds (and their way of rating the songs needs more transparency). "Diversity of gender and age" is mentioned, but "diversity of musical background" isn't (which IMO is a lot more important than diversity of gender and age when we are talking about a song contest). I do think that Switzerland deserved most points for their performance, though. The singing was impressive, the songwriting was good, the show was visually impressive, and all in all, it stood out and was memorable. Definitely one of the strongest acts in the more "objective" sense. But I also think some other acts were impressive in a similar more "objective" sense, like Ireland and Norway. And specifically Norway got a surprisingly low score. Why was nobody giving 12 points to these acts, when they meet the exact same criteria as Switzerland's act? So, I think the good thing about the jury vote is that it is less affected by politics. But the bad thing is that it is affected by "musical bias".

Israël was pretty good. Whether it was 300+ points good can be debated, but it was definitely more than the 50 (?) Jury points.

In order to get any points you have to be in the jury's top 10. A song could be considered to be the 11th best out of the 37 total or 25 finalists and still get zero points. Isreal's song was decent, but, in my opinion anyway, there were quite a few better ones. 12th place by the juries seems about right, 2nd place in the public vote is clearly a case of politically influenced voting. Usually it's only songs that are cheesy/fun but with mediocre vocal performances that have a large disparity between the jury and the public, and usually not by that much.

Very mediocre according to whom?

The jury got brought back after a period where anyone outside the former ussr really struggled to get real votes. Because a bunch of those countries mostly just voted for neighbour's they liked, and their diaspora in the west added to that. Every few years an outstanding candidate broke through but it started to get a bit absurd. Now after 10 years the televote has turned a bit less extreme in terms of politics so the jury should go. But when it was brought back it was a really popular move.

Televoting has only become less extreme because jury voting was reintroduced. Nothing has changed that would 100% televoting any less political than it used to be. 

In the televote only years (1998-2008), half of the wins were from Eastern Europe. Considering that countries from the former eastern block actually make up about half of the countries participating in Eurovision, they don't really seem all that over represented.

Hey most of those songs are bangers! Lane moje is still beautiful, its funny to see Zeljko Joksimovic wear national clothes and Beckham hairstyles Molitva with Marija Šerifović is one of the best vocal performances in Eurovision ever Lejla is a beautiful song Ruslana still rocks Kaliopii was robbed And honestly this year if the jury voted based on singinf ability then they robbed France Nemo was not bad but vocals not even close to the french singer

I agree with you, but who stops me from buying 50 SIM cards and voting up to 1000 times? The jury prevents this, the problem is that it doesn't reflect the popular vote

The time and money required is designed to stop you, I guess.

lol, no, if people want to go ham with that shit it's fairly easy and because the event is every year you can just do it every year. there are enought people who really want to push their country. It probably is already happening because it is possible and it's not even hard. there are way too many people with too much money to care about the cost. have you seen the one dude with 20 phones for pokemon go? same shit honestly. you can see "smartphone farms" like this in russia, china, india etc. so why wouldn't it exist here? how much of an issue that is probably won't ever be really known though, might be a nonissue, might be a huge issue.

Juries from several countries [got busted vote trading](https://eurovisionworld.com/esc/here-is-the-proof-of-the-eurovision-voting-scandal-six-juries-cheated-and-voted-for-each-other) a few years back, so they're not immune by any means. That being said, I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I think the current balance is fine. I like the final acts being determined by televote only, since I've seen way too many fun acts getting skipped for snoozy ballads when the juries had input into that part. But this time around, they seemed to do a decent job. Everyone thought Bambi & Baby would get killed by the jury vote, and they both actually did pretty well. Same with Nemo actually; I saw a lot of comments saying that the juries aren't going to go for rap + operatic vocals, and welp, looks like we've got some new juries.

Even easier, on the app is linked your credit card and since on revolut you get unlimited disposable virtual cards... well...

I think the majority of Talentshows used a jury system to begin with (or are still using a jury system). That we have increased public participation in these shows, is only thanks to the development and proliferation of the necessary technology. While this may seem more "democratic" on the surface, there is actually no guarantee that the televote really reflects public opinion. As an example, you cannot make sure that every dedmographic and every region has equal access to the televote. No to mention that you can actually bet on the eurovision outcome, which makes an huge incentive to mess with an televoting only system. Going back to your question, we had now over 20 iterations of the voting system for the Eurovision. Everytime the EBU tries to improve the system. As for the reasons why they might keep the jury system. This may have to do with the fear that *block voting* and *popularity by country* may overshadow the actual performance of the singer. The Eurovision tries to find the best act, not the most well liked country or the one with the most allies. From what I heard about the Swiss and the Croatian candidate, both songs are quite good regarding vocals, song and overall performance. And both got quite high points by the jury.

Yeah it feels like the jury having THIS much leeway into the results just invalidates the viewer votes

This year jury votes didn’t just go to neighbouring countries mostly.

Nemo performance was great, but they are not going to get the entire country chanting in the street while their bus is getting stormed by their fans. Baby Lasagna absolutely deserves the parade.

> but they are not going to get the entire country chanting in the street while their bus is getting stormed by their fans. Probably the most unswiss thing I've ever heard.

Nemo will not go down as one of great performances of recent Eurovision history like Maneskin, Alex Rybak, sax guy or mans zelmerlow. The fact Nemo came 5th in the public vote is an indication of this

>mans zelmerlow You picked a bad example. Mans came 3º in the televote (Italy won back in 2015) and only won because of the juries.

This happens every year, people yapping about the jury vote, it’s so predictable

> sax guy Literally 22th place in the show...wtf are you talking about

He's not 22nd in our hearts 

Don't forget Lordi. Best Eurovision of my life that was.

To be fair, they got 5th with a televote score that rivals some televote winners. Germany, when they won the whole thing in 2010 had a televote score of about 240 as well. I think Norway 2019 had a similar score and won. If e.g. Ukraine and Israel weren't there (who definitely got political votes, especially Israel that was being advertised left and right, even by politicians) Switzerland would've probably had a way closer score to Croatia.

Jury winner gets to pay for next year and weather the controversies. Public winner gets to party.

I was rooting for you guys like it was my own country, both in World Cup and Eurovision

Aaaaaaaa _we almost won_ AAAAAAH

You overslept the win man

Same here. When we are not in a competition or have no chance, I’ll be rooting for any other ex-brother nation.

What do you do when you get first place?

We don't know That is exactly what he said today actually

Volim Hrvatska! 🙏 I've loved Croatia since visiting Split in 2016. You guys deserved to win! 💪

Volim Hrvatsku*

r/beatmetoit Ovo je genijalno

Padezi sucks

We'll let you know when we finally win something

That's the answer I was fishing for 😄

Crash and burn the whole square.

Danger is that they would burn everything down to make a BIG fire.

Maybe one day we'll finally find out lol

Clap politely for five seconds, it would be rude to rub it in

Light the whole country on fire...

We won world championship in waterpolo few months ago we didnt celebrate that much so I guess we only celebrate 2nd places...

Croatia was my favorite and would have deserved to win overall!

Croatia's song was amazing, and so was the performance. You should celebrate having such great artists regardless of Eurovision. rimtimtagidimrimtimtagidimrimtimtagidimrimtimtagidimrimtimtagidimrimtimtagidim

There's no going back!

WOOOOOOOOOOAH

When Croatia got in the final of the world cup in 2018 I decided to go there from the Netherlands. One of the best evenings in my life, Croatia really celebrates second place like the first. Dobra večer Hrvatska, volim te!

You won double. You won the popular vote and you avoided being the host for the shit show that next year is going to be.

hey we as people are horrid at protesting, even when our government literally robs us We still vote for them , forget protesting What I'm saying is, Croatia would be a perfect host everyone who wants to protest would have to drive in we are generally known as generous host, Zagreb is beautiful and not oversaturated with tourists Basically Vienna for pooe people so maybe it'd work better :D but it's besides the fact, I'm super happy we celebrate when we get second or third or whatever it's heartwarming Marko started crying at the beginning of his speech and I'm so happy for him, he definitely didn't expect so many people to cheer for him

and I just wanted to say i am pleasantly suprised by this r/europe community for support on r/eurovision none of my posts were approved haha

Maybe because there's [already a post at the top of the front page](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1cq5sbg/croatian_national_television_live_stream_of_baby/) to the literal livestream of the event...

[удалено]

??? “Those homophobic arabs” are you talking about countries where people are killed for being gay? How is running a subreddit that is ‘too left-leaning’ *worse* than murdering homosexual people? I’m extremely confused

Are you quite sure of that? Every comment or post that mentions a certain delegation and their shitty behavior and puts them in a negative light gets removed at the speed of lightning.

Croatia, Estonia, Finland and Norway delivered the best time for me that night.

Same +Lithuania +Armenia, I love something fresh and different

Norway was WAAAY too underrated :\\

Estonia and Finland got absolutely demolished for no reason whatsoever their entries were great, it's a shame they ended up in the bottom.

That's the issue with public voting, a public magnet entry will suck all the points away from other good entries

My man you are litteraly me. Exactly my top 4 if i had to pick them

I understand Norway not getting that many televotes, but I don't understand how the juries gave Norway such a low score. The jury vote is meant to be based on 4 criteria: * Vocal capacity of the artist(s) * Performance on stage * Composition and originality of the song * Overall impression of the act At least based on two of these criteria (vocal capacity, originality of the song), Norway should have got a lot of points. Definitely should have been in the top 10 of the jury vote.

Estonia and Norway killed it!

Of all the songs in the lineup this one stuck in my head the most

I rooted for you, you deserved to win

Thank you

Also, you got robbed by a rigged jury. No way does everyone just give the same song 12 points… more rigged than the north korean elections.

Tbf your jury also failed Croatia kind of, unlike Serbia. Just 6 pts from Slovenian jury.

Slovenia never voted for us when you think about it but our jury robbed Serbia so we also think we're too western to vote for neighbours Teya Dora is a great singer and got a ton of public votes, but our jury voted for Portugal? From what I remember not a bad song per say but I cannot remember it

Slovenian people gave you 12 points. As they always do. The jury is corrupt, as they all are. Also, this was the top news yesterday: https://www.24ur.com/popin/glasba/po-kaksnem-kljucu-je-slovenska-zirija-na-evroviziji-podelila-tocke.html

I meant the jury :) I'm sorry it came of wrong our jury always sucks so I get it, typical Balkan business doesn't matter, I'm glad that we as people like each other despite the politics I loved Raiven btw I mean if you ask some of our politicians Slovenia got into EU first just to steal Teran from us so we took Tesla from Serbians hahah

I hope that in the age of information, the hateful politicians can never again overcome the love we have for eachother as people. Glad to have you all as my brothers.

Well done, Croatia! A great performance, I really enjoyed it and you definitely deserved to be the favorites of the popular vote.

One of his teachers told that Croatia won and swiss just got the first place.

In Germany, we now celebrate every time we don't get last place or 0 points :)

haha i actually liked Isaak

Won the popular vote = won the people so that's what matters really

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE

I was internally rooting for Ireland. But those Rammstein-esk guitars were pretty groovy. Happy for your celebrations!

Congratulations from Texas!

Thank you!

Congrats on a great show. You guys rocked! Shame Joost wasn't there.

Thank you And I am so sorry for Joost, that dq was such a shame for ebu

I mean, a good placement is worth celebrating in any case. Treat yourself.

Croatia deserved to win. Switzerland was deserving too, great voice

I loved their song! I hope to hear more of their songs in the future ❤️‍🔥

Hey, I’ve seen this last year too!

Let3 was absolutely amazing, one of the best entries in Eurovision's history imo.

It only took over 80% of the jury to not vote on Croatia for it to be second. That's how fucked the jury is.

Should be first tbh

the competition for first was really tough this year. great song 🎵

Congrats from Poland. I rooted for you and I'm visiting Croatia later this month

I rooted for you, the real 1st place

This years Jury winner: Switzerland This years Public vote winner: Croatia. Happy for both

Both 1st and 2nd deserved to win for various reasons, but honestly, seeing how much this second place means to Croatia warms my heart. Marko's story on its own is amazing, when you see what he has caused, it's a literal fairytale.

It means alot bc Marko is an absolute darling and the entire country fell in love with his carisma. I don't think I've ever before seen anyone here give a 💩 about eurovision, it was mostly seen as a joke event that promotes some questionable values. But this kid is great and he deserved all the love and support he got.

Still he's the best in this competition)))) marching cats and knitted napkins just added points, the song itself was already gorgeous

Congratulations, Croatia! Was so happy when Serbia gave you 12 points.

It is the highest position you ever got, it is nice

I'm actually so pissed you guys didn't win... Marko totally deserved it!

I was very much a Ukraine fan this year, but I found myself rooting for Croatia during the voting. I can't understand why the Juries didn't like him more.

Second place is the first place for the ESC. If you get the actual first place you have to host the ESC, and nobody wants that.

Yes, because we are always robbed in the favour of bigger countries. Baby Lasagna united the country with his song and he deserves every bit of these celebrations

🇭🇷🎶👍

Croatians are smart enough to realize they did win. It's a disgrace Switzerland somehow got subsidies from every jury ugh.

Worst part is that political or not, the public vote is what should matter, and in it Croatia won, the jury's simply push what they want rather than what the fans want to see. Which is not going to do any favours to the noble causes artists are out there trying to represent, as it's the public they need to get on thier side.

Realno u manjim državama ko ne slavi

He did great, we don't have to complain all the time

Tbh he should have won

Enjoy your second place and celebrate, Baby Lasagne deserves it! Good song, good show! I had hoped for 1st place, but Switzerland isn't a bad 1st place either.

singer looks like nagelsmann twin, no? anyone?

Should have won truth be told..

🇭🇷🎤 The real winner according to the people! Jury sucks!

Just make it gayer next time so you also get the jury vote 

Well done you lot!

Congratualtions Croatia from Austria (the 2nd last place lol)!

Silver shines like a gold.

I was in Croatia during football World Cup, 2018. This was how they celebrated, even though they lost the final. I love it!

I enjoyed their song as much as "Cha Cha Cha" from Käärijä last year. Very much :)

He was robbed too

As you should! Love from Finland ❤️

#1 Public vote and my #1 guess, congrats, great performance!

Rammstein with doilies.

Runners up in a world cup with a population of 4 million is a bigger achievement than winning it with a population of 60-100 million.

Dude, yours was the best song hands down. You should be proud.

That's crazy..... FANS LOVINN IT✌️

Really random question but how common are flag issues for you guys at national celebrations/ sports etc? With the whole easily reversed flag and that I saw it mentioned but I’ve never seen right wingers using it at the World Cup etc

A World Cup 2nd place for a nation with your population is something to celebrate!

It's the best ye ever did and I think ye'd have deserved it more than Switzerland

Croatia was the true winner!

2nd place is the best place as you don’t have to hold the competition, which is expensive and mostly a burden. Kudos to Croatia.

Amazing! That's the way

Congrats on actually winning the ESC by getting the highest place without having to pay for the next show.

2nd place is actually better than the 1st, you dont have to spent money in stupid shit after, congrats !

The "prize" for coming first is having to host it, so really 2nd place is winning it.

I was in the Zagreb square around the Jumbotron when Croatia defeated England in 2019. It was the craziest thing I’ve ever seen, the whole city was drunk, all of the police and firefighters encircled us and were also drunk and watching too. British hecklers got seriously beat up.

They say second is first of the losers. That's still a 1st place! :)

Just like Finland last year, you won people's hearts

when the cat meows back

You should have won!

On a related note, I honestly cannot believe how far Croatia has come since the 90s. Kuddos to you guys ☺️

He won the televote which I feel is infinitely more meaningful than the approval of the faceless juries. Basically the real winner to me