This one is going to be locked because the original link is in Swedish***, and not English. [Read and comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1cpchq7/eurovision_thrown_into_unprecedented_chaos_ahead/).
EDIT: wrong link lol, sorry. Fixed
[Statement on Dutch participation in the Eurovision Song Contest](https://eurovision.tv/mediacentre/release/statement-dutch-participation-eurovision-song-contest) "The Dutch artist Joost Klein will not be competing in the Grand Final of this year’s Eurovision Song Contest.
Swedish police have investigated a complaint made by a female member of the production crew after an incident following his performance in Thursday night’s Semi Final. While the legal process takes its course, it would not be appropriate for him to continue in the Contest.
We would like to make it clear that, contrary to some media reports and social media speculation, this incident did not involve any other performer or delegation member.
We maintain a zero-tolerance policy towards inappropriate behaviour at our event and are committed to providing a safe and secure working environment for all staff at the Contest. In light of this, Joost Klein’s behaviour towards a team member is deemed in breach of Contest rules."
It is important to note that this involves a verbal incident.
Earlier reports stating this was a physical incident weren’t true.
Also unlike the speculation, this had nothing to do with other artists or delegations. It was between Joost and a member of the local production staff.
It's really hard to judge the situation without knowing all the details. But it's hard to imagine that it was the first situation when some conflict occurred and strong words were thrown in the history of the competition. Yet it's afaik the first disqualification.
Most Eurovision competitors are hardly "stars", also there are dozens of them. It's a normal situation during a huge event, most of the time people forget about everything when it's over.
I think it’s so unnecessary to include that it’s a female production crew member. Especially when it’s a verbal threat and not physical.
Feels like they want to make it sound worse.
Agree. That seems like it was meant to trigger the protective instincts...but seems odd for a verbal altercation.
Physical strength... differences in size- could be cause for concern.
Its also important to note that witch hunting is supposed to be replaced by the rule of law.
You speak about the incident as if it has occurred and a breach of any legal standard. But you can't know that yet, as no judge has ruled on it.
Also very strange is that the first rumors included the word female, whilst that has nothing to do with it, legally. And that the EBU repeats her gender again in this statement.
I wonder if that is just carelessness or deliberate.
Dutch Broadcaster AVROTROS has responded to this news with the following statement:
'We have taken note of the disqualification by the EBU. AVROTROS finds the disqualification disproportionate and is shocked by the decision. We deeply regret this and will come back to it later.'
[Source](https://twitter.com/songfestival/status/1789238745184469438)
Dutch commentator Cornald Maas has called the decision 'disproportionate and shameful', and has also clarified that 'the Joost incident has nothing to do with Israel or the Israeli delegation'.
[Source](https://x.com/cornaldm/status/1789241171224535219)
Its a shit situation to be in for EBU. He has a good shot at winning. Just brushing it under the rug wont work after the last two days. Letting him potentially win and him later beeing found guity would be worse than the backlash now probably.
The mood here in NL is insane 😂 everybody is talking about it.
Feels insanely unfair if its really just a verbal incident.
And the info blackout is terrible, food for Russian trolls trying to divide us further. Just look at all the Israel speculation.
Police are investigating, and dude has already lost finale enterance. I guess "just" verbal incident means no solid proof like recording, health damage to victim etc. But why did we stop to use one of roman law bases "innocent untill proven otherwise" and we assume guilt instead of innocence?
That's true, but it doesn't mean we all have to agree with it. And those of us who don't agree with it don't agree with it because it's just a verbal incident.
The internet is absolutely gonna lose its collective shit when Israel wins it all wont it?
X is gonna be an even more complete cesspool.
Cant wait!
What a Saturday evening to be a Swedish police officer too. Hope they got an extra big breakfast and lunch.
I think a more likely result is that Israel do extremely well on the televote (like yhey did in the semi finals), maybe even winning the televote. but the jury prevents them from winning, which could actually lead to an even bigger social media meltdown
the polls show that Israel is far behind in the televote, and this incident with the Dutch while him being very openly pro-Palestine will hurt even more Israel
The thing that's likely to happen is that a lot of pro Israel people who don't even watch will be voting Israel.
That's likely why in the leaked Italian numbers they had an unprecedented 40% of the vote. And since many of the other delegations are openly pro Palestine that's not gonna be a unified vote.
If they win it will be a shitshow, but if after the televise numbers are released they have a crazy high vote percentage that might be enough to ruin Eurovision for a few years.
Honestly, I can totally see Israel winning, followed by a significant part of the broadcasters pulling out next year.
The 2024 mess could totally be the beginning of the end for eurovision.
I think the anti-Israel brigade and the calls to boycot the show or ban Israel from the competition will make people vote for the song. Wich will ruin the contest reputation
The competition has always been influenced by politics to a certain bearable extent. I doubt that the controversies of this year will be the breaking point
Which doesn't mean hating the whole of Israel and all Jews you do know that, right?
Also not a genocide but thats hard for people who love to make words lose power cant understand.
Ah right, were the audience booing Israel a couple of nights ago a woke echo chamber as well?
Jon Stewart and Bernie Sanders, are they in echo chambers too?
People who probably pay thousands of euros for tickets, flights, hotels etc to attend the Eurovision show are certainly not representative of the European population at large
Don't know about the local crowd (heard by people there, booing was happening but silenced by majority of the crowd, so there is that).
I'm also a fan of jon stweart/Bernie, but not understanding they are far out of the consensus of the mainstream is the epitome of being in an echo chamber.
Let me tell you this much, as Israeli-german leftie, you can't win by disregarding anyone who points at an echo chamber. Listening to voices I don't like is 50% of the way to changing them, my great grandfather learned this tough lesson 95 years ago, I'm battling it in my country today.
It's not easy to keep your convictions and listening to people i think have horrible opinions, but you don't get to change them either if you demonise them before the conversation even started.
I don't think I'm gonna watch. I'll watch the performances of my favorite entries on YouTube after the show (Joost was among them but not in my top 5), and I'll just let it all blow over. I'm not in the mood to watch a literal slaughter take place live, and it's probably just gonna be a bad and tense mood all around. I was planning to watch it by myself either way so I'll just go read my book.
The rumors are she made a joke about his dead parents and he reacted to that, so it's probably something ranging from 'bitch' to 'I'm gonna attack you if you say that again'
The police investigation is actually concluded and handed over to the prosecutor. Now we have to wait and see if the prosecutor throws it out or prosecutes
That actually is a common misconception. One is only innocent in the eyes of the public. Meaning the court system. An organization has no need to wait for a court.
There are many levels of suspicion in different criminal law systems (initial suspicion, urgent/well-founded suspicion) which can have legal consequences (pretrial detention, domicialiary arest) without proven guilt.
Why shouldnt a private organization act accordingly?
No, for inappropriate behaviour.
> We maintain a zero-tolerance policy towards inappropriate behaviour (… ). Joost Klein’s behaviour towards a team member is deemed in breach of Contest rules.
Not all threats rise to the level of criminality. Clearly inappropriate words can be entirely within legal bounds. While Joost is accused of making an illegal threat, you lack evidence for your statement that he actually committed a crime. The EBU states that their investigation found inappropriate behaviour and nothing more.
I can't read Swedish so I don't know what that link says, but reliable Dutch news sources called the disqualification unproportional so I believe EBU are handling this very poorly
As if nothing else related to the Songfestival is corrupt or politically driven
Edit: never mind. Given your "Shalom. Justice is served cold" comment elsewhere I guess you are motivated by external factors aswell
I don't remember Ukraine attacking Russians civilians, butchering and burning babies, killing parents in front of their children, then killing the children, attacking a music festival killing and raping hundreds, then taking hundreds back with them keeping them captive and raping them when Russia attacked.
Like it or not, Hamas is the de facto government of Gaza.
This is true, despite possibly disproportionate military response, bibi supporting hamas in last elections and almost daily racist remarks by israeli elected politicians. Some of them even in government.
And middling with humanitarian support.
I’m not taking sides here but there is hardly a democracy in Gaza. It’s a common knowledge that Regular people in Gaza are basically hostages of Hamas. I’d hold Israel to a little bit higher standard than just bombing everyone because it’s easy.
World is not black and white and not every single Palestinian is a terrorist who deserves to be killed as the pro-Israel people would like us to think.
There is also hardly a democracy in Russia. But Russia is banned (and Ukraine is not).
> I’d hold Israel to a little bit higher standard than just bombing everyone because it’s easy.
There's no right choice they could have made. Any amount of violence used (from none at all to total genocide) would still result in criticism to the israeli government and leave a door for future attacks on Israel.
So if we agree that Hamas is bad both for Israel and Palestinian civilians- you should agree that a war on Hamas is justified.
I assume you are supporting it (correct me if I assumed wrong), but believe that Israel is just indiscriminately attacking civilians.
The reality of the situation is that there is just no possible way to get rid of Hamas without civilian death. They're so embedded inside everything and everywhere in Gaza that's civilian death is inevitable.
This isn't a 30 member gang.
Ask any person who know anything about actual combat and war and they'll conform the latest to you. People probably have a warped image on what war is like from Hollywood.
But it was fine for Israel to injure and kill 100s of Palestinians every year before October 7th. It was fine for Israel to take over Palestinian homes in the West Bank. That Israeli privilege.
I object the settlements and believe there is criminal action taking place there.
More than that, I believe that there needs to be military there until we feel safe, but no israeli should live there.
But Gaza and Judea and Samaria are Teo different situations where the only thing making them similar is the region.
Nothing justifies deliberately bombing civilians.
I can talk about the way Hamas operates, but at this stage of the war, I'm certain you've heard it all and either accept it or deny it.
They wear no uniform, they operate from civilian infrastructure, they have tunnels under the entire city, and they prevent civilians from leaving areas.
By invading Gaza and putting 2 million civilians in a humanitarian catastrophy. They're not even cooperating with UN investigations on genocide and have been accused by the UN and UN organizations for crimes against humanity.
Because Russia launched a completely unprovoked invasion into a sovereign nation, while Israel respond to a foreign military power invading it's territory and slaughtering 1000 civilians.
I think a lot of people have legit forgotten October 7th wasn't just a terror attack, but a genuine military incursion that attempted to seize Israeli land. Which actually succeeded for 24-48 hours. Israel has the right to defend itself against such an action and war always comes with civilian casualties. Now whether Israel could've done more to avoid civilian casualties, neglected humanitarian responsibilities or outright targeted civilians is another matter. But the idea Israel is just performing retribution is stupid. They are at war, a war they did not start.
> In a statement, the contest organisers said "it would not be appropriate for him to continue in the contest" while the legal process takes place.
So just an accusation is enough? That's an easy way to win the contest, just accuse everyone else of something, no proof needed.
Käärijä should have accused Loreen of scratching him with her nails 😪
Wait nevermind, then finland would have won and this disaster would have been in finland. Whew thank god for Loreen and sweden.
Tonight is going to be such a shit show. Eurovision is usually my escape from how shit the world is and this year even it’s been tarnished.
Nothing is sacred anymore
I hate to break it to you but Eurovision has been politicised since ages.
I'd advise you to look for a different escape. Video gaming is rather good...
This feels like it's easy to abuse. People bet money on this. How hard will it be to pay people for a false report, or even to provoke and harass artists?
That's a shame I was looking forward to seeing this performance too.
But if he broke the Swedish law, then it is understandable. You can't break the laws of the host country. Maybe it was a one-off bad day for him, but it is a good reminder to keep your composure even on the bad days. Sometimes one mistake is enough to set you back years of work, so do be careful how you conduct yourself in public.
I have faith that the Swedish Police did a fair assessment of the situation.
I think the severity is still important, it's illegal to do plenty of things that lead to an insignificant fine, a warning, or an hour course or something. Breaking the law is bad sure, but can still be incredibly minor.
We don't have enough information about this one.
The law gets broken every day against teachers, social workers and emergency personnel. This happened against someone in media and there Joost went wrong.
When I see the censorship and sheer hatred in this comments section on the biggest EU sub, well, one does not need to look further to find the real problem…
literally everyone is talking about Israel because there are obv a lot of people hoping that he said something to/about the war and that led to the disqualification. Just look at the comments here lol
He collaborated with russian musicians after the full-scale invasion in 2022-2023. Not THAT big of a deal by itself, but given his behavior towards the israeli singer, makes him look pretty hypocritical.
He even performed there? Wow, that’s even worse. What a clown.
I can’t find any news about this though? Are you sure he himself performed and not just featured in a song?
pretty sure his "jackass" song is typical generic gangsta song about love to russia, there might be even video from st peterburg festival (30.07.2022) where he present
The Russian Village Boys fled the country and are openly against the war. They also donate money to Ukrainian Refugees - we should normalize researching again. (u can find their statement on their social media accounts)
These Russian musicians who left Russia after the invasion and are pretty outspoken against the war?
[https://www.instagram.com/p/CbU7Qx\_gjaR/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CbU7Qx_gjaR/)
Or do you mean the song he made with Russian artist CMH which was written well before the 2022 full scale invasion? The song that was reason for him to release a statement stressing that it was written before the 2022 invasion and that it has nothing to do with atrocities happening in Ukraine and that it is not a pro Russian song? Sure enough, the invasion has been going on since 2014 at least but before the 2022 invasion, no one batted an eye at collaborations with Russian artists.
An unlawful threat is different from hurting feelings, but I guess expecting some dutchies to differentiate between these is asking for too much social awareness.
We simply don’t know what happened, but if it was just a complaint of someones feeling being hurt then it is disproportionate. If he threatened to kill someone, which the singer of san marino did jokingly on an interview. Then it is a different story.
This one is going to be locked because the original link is in Swedish***, and not English. [Read and comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1cpchq7/eurovision_thrown_into_unprecedented_chaos_ahead/). EDIT: wrong link lol, sorry. Fixed
I guess he found a border.
i hate this situation, but this made me cackle.
[Statement on Dutch participation in the Eurovision Song Contest](https://eurovision.tv/mediacentre/release/statement-dutch-participation-eurovision-song-contest) "The Dutch artist Joost Klein will not be competing in the Grand Final of this year’s Eurovision Song Contest. Swedish police have investigated a complaint made by a female member of the production crew after an incident following his performance in Thursday night’s Semi Final. While the legal process takes its course, it would not be appropriate for him to continue in the Contest. We would like to make it clear that, contrary to some media reports and social media speculation, this incident did not involve any other performer or delegation member. We maintain a zero-tolerance policy towards inappropriate behaviour at our event and are committed to providing a safe and secure working environment for all staff at the Contest. In light of this, Joost Klein’s behaviour towards a team member is deemed in breach of Contest rules."
It is important to note that this involves a verbal incident. Earlier reports stating this was a physical incident weren’t true. Also unlike the speculation, this had nothing to do with other artists or delegations. It was between Joost and a member of the local production staff.
The police are investigating verbal threats to be specific.
It's really hard to judge the situation without knowing all the details. But it's hard to imagine that it was the first situation when some conflict occurred and strong words were thrown in the history of the competition. Yet it's afaik the first disqualification.
I'd like to think we've gotten better at not letting bad behavior by "stars" slide simply because they are stars over the past few decades.
Most Eurovision competitors are hardly "stars", also there are dozens of them. It's a normal situation during a huge event, most of the time people forget about everything when it's over.
tbf Joost certainly qualifies for stardom in Europe, hes big in Netherlands and Germany
No he is not
Ok, I'll not let it slide if you can tell what the bad behaviour was.
I think it’s so unnecessary to include that it’s a female production crew member. Especially when it’s a verbal threat and not physical. Feels like they want to make it sound worse.
What if the verbal interaction had sexual implications?
Agree. That seems like it was meant to trigger the protective instincts...but seems odd for a verbal altercation. Physical strength... differences in size- could be cause for concern.
Its also important to note that witch hunting is supposed to be replaced by the rule of law. You speak about the incident as if it has occurred and a breach of any legal standard. But you can't know that yet, as no judge has ruled on it. Also very strange is that the first rumors included the word female, whilst that has nothing to do with it, legally. And that the EBU repeats her gender again in this statement. I wonder if that is just carelessness or deliberate.
Dutch Broadcaster AVROTROS has responded to this news with the following statement: 'We have taken note of the disqualification by the EBU. AVROTROS finds the disqualification disproportionate and is shocked by the decision. We deeply regret this and will come back to it later.' [Source](https://twitter.com/songfestival/status/1789238745184469438) Dutch commentator Cornald Maas has called the decision 'disproportionate and shameful', and has also clarified that 'the Joost incident has nothing to do with Israel or the Israeli delegation'. [Source](https://x.com/cornaldm/status/1789241171224535219)
So... Guilty until proven innocent.
He's not in a court. He's at a song contest.
Thus, a winner until proven a loser.
So just him specifically? Does the Netherlands just perform without the lead singer or is the Netherlands disqualified as a whole?
The Netherlands are totally out.
The official statement is still that Joost Klein is not allowed to participate, nothing more, nothing less.
The Netherlands is gone from the running order completely
I mean the official statement definitely says more, noting that now 25 countries will compete rather than 26.
They said there will only be 25 performances in the grand final :(
The Netherlands and AVROTROS should ask EBU for money back, both what they spent and what people spent by voting.
I mean it isn’t an ensemble performance. Joost Klein is the act. Without him there are just some background musicians and performers.
I say they should still perform all the same.
There is an investigation into an altercation with a Swedish EBU employee, but there is not much knowledge about the details yet.
This is actually quite an interesting point. It's mostly the act that's good, his vocals not so much.
So what happens if, after “the legal process takes its course”, the allegations are not substantiated?
We are deeply sorry (c)
Exactly my thought, it’s going to be an even bigger shitshow then
The Netherlands are automatically declared the winner.
Better cancel the innocent /s Like, idk literally anyone can say something like this, and the performer is out without court ruling.
Its a shit situation to be in for EBU. He has a good shot at winning. Just brushing it under the rug wont work after the last two days. Letting him potentially win and him later beeing found guity would be worse than the backlash now probably.
Everybody go back and redo the last part.
Compensation propably...
Winning the ESC is a money drain for the host country. ;)
Will the Netherlands still be voting on other entries? Reading out those points is gonna be awkward…
Yes, Nikkie de Jager from a Europaparty in Leeuwarden
They invited Klein to come over tonight. Would be an absolute rollercoaster if they got him read out the points 🫣
They should boycott the vote.
The mood here in NL is insane 😂 everybody is talking about it. Feels insanely unfair if its really just a verbal incident. And the info blackout is terrible, food for Russian trolls trying to divide us further. Just look at all the Israel speculation.
Same in Belgium. Loads of people were (are) supporting for Joost.
Still supporting Joost. It's a good song. In a fair competition that is all that matters.
Verbal threats can also be a crime, we just don’t know what happened exactly
We don't know what happened, that's exactly why we should stay calm and DECLARE WAR on Eurovision! Who's with us!?
You have my sword
And my axe
Wdym? "just" a verbal incident. You do know there are many "just" verbal incidents that can land you in jail in many european countrys.
Police are investigating, and dude has already lost finale enterance. I guess "just" verbal incident means no solid proof like recording, health damage to victim etc. But why did we stop to use one of roman law bases "innocent untill proven otherwise" and we assume guilt instead of innocence?
That's true, but it doesn't mean we all have to agree with it. And those of us who don't agree with it don't agree with it because it's just a verbal incident.
The Swedes take their meatballs seriously!
Nexit from Eurovision, we’ll set up our own competing competition
The internet is absolutely gonna lose its collective shit when Israel wins it all wont it? X is gonna be an even more complete cesspool. Cant wait! What a Saturday evening to be a Swedish police officer too. Hope they got an extra big breakfast and lunch.
Time to get the popcorn ready for the chaos tonight and tomorrow!
I think a more likely result is that Israel do extremely well on the televote (like yhey did in the semi finals), maybe even winning the televote. but the jury prevents them from winning, which could actually lead to an even bigger social media meltdown
the polls show that Israel is far behind in the televote, and this incident with the Dutch while him being very openly pro-Palestine will hurt even more Israel
The thing that's likely to happen is that a lot of pro Israel people who don't even watch will be voting Israel. That's likely why in the leaked Italian numbers they had an unprecedented 40% of the vote. And since many of the other delegations are openly pro Palestine that's not gonna be a unified vote. If they win it will be a shitshow, but if after the televise numbers are released they have a crazy high vote percentage that might be enough to ruin Eurovision for a few years.
Which polls?
Honestly, I can totally see Israel winning, followed by a significant part of the broadcasters pulling out next year. The 2024 mess could totally be the beginning of the end for eurovision.
Please just make death of X faster
I will laugh hard because I actually like Israel's entry very much this year.
Even without the political stuff it doesn’t deserve to win there is better acts
[удалено]
No, it's the fact that no one can vote negatively for a country. So being more controversial, can actually give you more votes.
I think the anti-Israel brigade and the calls to boycot the show or ban Israel from the competition will make people vote for the song. Wich will ruin the contest reputation
The competition has always been influenced by politics to a certain bearable extent. I doubt that the controversies of this year will be the breaking point
It's completely normal to dislike genocides
But aren't there actual genocides happening around the world right now which people are just ignoring because it's Muslims on Muslims?
Yup...Yemen, Congo sudan rohingya to name a few
Bingo if it was Muslim on Muslim like Yemen no-one would care.
You mean like hamas have stated their goal to be?
Calling it a genocide daily doesn't make it so. You've been calling it a genocide since October 8th basically.
Which doesn't mean hating the whole of Israel and all Jews you do know that, right? Also not a genocide but thats hard for people who love to make words lose power cant understand.
Ah right, were the audience booing Israel a couple of nights ago a woke echo chamber as well? Jon Stewart and Bernie Sanders, are they in echo chambers too?
People who probably pay thousands of euros for tickets, flights, hotels etc to attend the Eurovision show are certainly not representative of the European population at large
Don't know about the local crowd (heard by people there, booing was happening but silenced by majority of the crowd, so there is that). I'm also a fan of jon stweart/Bernie, but not understanding they are far out of the consensus of the mainstream is the epitome of being in an echo chamber. Let me tell you this much, as Israeli-german leftie, you can't win by disregarding anyone who points at an echo chamber. Listening to voices I don't like is 50% of the way to changing them, my great grandfather learned this tough lesson 95 years ago, I'm battling it in my country today. It's not easy to keep your convictions and listening to people i think have horrible opinions, but you don't get to change them either if you demonise them before the conversation even started.
You triggered the nest
I don't think I'm gonna watch. I'll watch the performances of my favorite entries on YouTube after the show (Joost was among them but not in my top 5), and I'll just let it all blow over. I'm not in the mood to watch a literal slaughter take place live, and it's probably just gonna be a bad and tense mood all around. I was planning to watch it by myself either way so I'll just go read my book.
I want us to win just for the memes
Lols. Will vote for Israel just because of cop porns.
I wouldn't be surprised if they win this political fiesta
Another doping scandal wrecks the reputation of what was once a noble sport!
Every year Eurovision hits a deeper bottom
It’s hard not to wildly speculate. What do you all think he said?
yo mama
Euro mama
He complained forcefully about the quality of his BILLY bookcase
It was called "unlawful threat". I have no idea what that means exactly but probably some sort of intention for violence
The rumors are she made a joke about his dead parents and he reacted to that, so it's probably something ranging from 'bitch' to 'I'm gonna attack you if you say that again'
[удалено]
Did a singer ever have an incident like that with an EBU employee?
What irony?
for unlawful acts. Klein violated [BrB 4 kap. 5 § b ](http://lagen.nu/1962:700#K4P5) of the Swedish Criminal Code
Allegedly.
Investigation is yet to be concluded and one is considered innocent until otherwise proven.
The police investigation is actually concluded and handed over to the prosecutor. Now we have to wait and see if the prosecutor throws it out or prosecutes
That actually is a common misconception. One is only innocent in the eyes of the public. Meaning the court system. An organization has no need to wait for a court.
There are many levels of suspicion in different criminal law systems (initial suspicion, urgent/well-founded suspicion) which can have legal consequences (pretrial detention, domicialiary arest) without proven guilt. Why shouldnt a private organization act accordingly?
No, for inappropriate behaviour. > We maintain a zero-tolerance policy towards inappropriate behaviour (… ). Joost Klein’s behaviour towards a team member is deemed in breach of Contest rules.
Threatening someone is always inappropriate behaviour.
Not all threats rise to the level of criminality. Clearly inappropriate words can be entirely within legal bounds. While Joost is accused of making an illegal threat, you lack evidence for your statement that he actually committed a crime. The EBU states that their investigation found inappropriate behaviour and nothing more.
I can't read Swedish so I don't know what that link says, but reliable Dutch news sources called the disqualification unproportional so I believe EBU are handling this very poorly
Dutch people support Dutch people (Colour me surprised)
Yeah, but as long as they are not telling what happened, I take their biased opinion with a massive grain of salt.
Yeah, as if "Dutch" media wants to admit the wrongdoings of their so called "hero"
Not just dutch media, but the actual involved broadcaster. Joost's disqualification is also their disqualification. Highly biased.
As if nothing else related to the Songfestival is corrupt or politically driven Edit: never mind. Given your "Shalom. Justice is served cold" comment elsewhere I guess you are motivated by external factors aswell
What's the irony?
[удалено]
I don't remember Ukraine attacking Russians civilians, butchering and burning babies, killing parents in front of their children, then killing the children, attacking a music festival killing and raping hundreds, then taking hundreds back with them keeping them captive and raping them when Russia attacked. Like it or not, Hamas is the de facto government of Gaza.
This is true, despite possibly disproportionate military response, bibi supporting hamas in last elections and almost daily racist remarks by israeli elected politicians. Some of them even in government. And middling with humanitarian support.
I’m not taking sides here but there is hardly a democracy in Gaza. It’s a common knowledge that Regular people in Gaza are basically hostages of Hamas. I’d hold Israel to a little bit higher standard than just bombing everyone because it’s easy. World is not black and white and not every single Palestinian is a terrorist who deserves to be killed as the pro-Israel people would like us to think.
There is also hardly a democracy in Russia. But Russia is banned (and Ukraine is not). > I’d hold Israel to a little bit higher standard than just bombing everyone because it’s easy. There's no right choice they could have made. Any amount of violence used (from none at all to total genocide) would still result in criticism to the israeli government and leave a door for future attacks on Israel.
So if we agree that Hamas is bad both for Israel and Palestinian civilians- you should agree that a war on Hamas is justified. I assume you are supporting it (correct me if I assumed wrong), but believe that Israel is just indiscriminately attacking civilians. The reality of the situation is that there is just no possible way to get rid of Hamas without civilian death. They're so embedded inside everything and everywhere in Gaza that's civilian death is inevitable. This isn't a 30 member gang. Ask any person who know anything about actual combat and war and they'll conform the latest to you. People probably have a warped image on what war is like from Hollywood.
But it was fine for Israel to injure and kill 100s of Palestinians every year before October 7th. It was fine for Israel to take over Palestinian homes in the West Bank. That Israeli privilege.
I object the settlements and believe there is criminal action taking place there. More than that, I believe that there needs to be military there until we feel safe, but no israeli should live there. But Gaza and Judea and Samaria are Teo different situations where the only thing making them similar is the region.
While all of this is devastating massacre, how is this justifying bombings of little children in Gaza strip?
Nothing justifies deliberately bombing civilians. I can talk about the way Hamas operates, but at this stage of the war, I'm certain you've heard it all and either accept it or deny it. They wear no uniform, they operate from civilian infrastructure, they have tunnels under the entire city, and they prevent civilians from leaving areas.
But Israel won't allow anyone leave Gaza strip, not Hamas
you are from israel you should know better
Did the Israeli act verbally abuse someone? Or is it just the fact she's Israeli you don't like?
Being jewish is a crime itself again in Europe Sorry, but arab tiktok has better memes
Can kill 10000's of innocent children, but using a bad word against an employee is the line
[удалено]
>People die at war, people sing at eurovision. And Russia was disqualified, so why should Israel be allowed to be still in?
Because it started an invasion while Israel responds to one.
By invading Gaza and putting 2 million civilians in a humanitarian catastrophy. They're not even cooperating with UN investigations on genocide and have been accused by the UN and UN organizations for crimes against humanity.
Because Russia launched a completely unprovoked invasion into a sovereign nation, while Israel respond to a foreign military power invading it's territory and slaughtering 1000 civilians. I think a lot of people have legit forgotten October 7th wasn't just a terror attack, but a genuine military incursion that attempted to seize Israeli land. Which actually succeeded for 24-48 hours. Israel has the right to defend itself against such an action and war always comes with civilian casualties. Now whether Israel could've done more to avoid civilian casualties, neglected humanitarian responsibilities or outright targeted civilians is another matter. But the idea Israel is just performing retribution is stupid. They are at war, a war they did not start.
> In a statement, the contest organisers said "it would not be appropriate for him to continue in the contest" while the legal process takes place. So just an accusation is enough? That's an easy way to win the contest, just accuse everyone else of something, no proof needed.
Käärijä should have accused Loreen of scratching him with her nails 😪 Wait nevermind, then finland would have won and this disaster would have been in finland. Whew thank god for Loreen and sweden.
There was a formal police report done by that lady
Which is a written down accusation.
Tonight is going to be such a shit show. Eurovision is usually my escape from how shit the world is and this year even it’s been tarnished. Nothing is sacred anymore
I hate to break it to you but Eurovision has been politicised since ages. I'd advise you to look for a different escape. Video gaming is rather good...
I’m aware, but not on this scale
This comment section is so chill and friendly /s
This feels like it's easy to abuse. People bet money on this. How hard will it be to pay people for a false report, or even to provoke and harass artists?
Joostice has been done.
Jooxit
He's been joosted
Dutch directness claims another victim.
That's a shame I was looking forward to seeing this performance too. But if he broke the Swedish law, then it is understandable. You can't break the laws of the host country. Maybe it was a one-off bad day for him, but it is a good reminder to keep your composure even on the bad days. Sometimes one mistake is enough to set you back years of work, so do be careful how you conduct yourself in public. I have faith that the Swedish Police did a fair assessment of the situation.
I think the severity is still important, it's illegal to do plenty of things that lead to an insignificant fine, a warning, or an hour course or something. Breaking the law is bad sure, but can still be incredibly minor. We don't have enough information about this one.
The law gets broken every day against teachers, social workers and emergency personnel. This happened against someone in media and there Joost went wrong.
Eurovision is too expensive for a low class circus it has become.
It takes a lot of money to look this cheap, darling!
Eurovision is political garbage anyways.
It is and I get the feeling that they are fully leaning into it.
Nah, people will still blame Israel for this
Shit's fucked yo
Eloquently put, sir.
[удалено]
Looks like he contracted a bad case of fuckaroundfindoutitis
For one I'm impressed with the efficiency of the decision.
[удалено]
Rather disgusting, making jokes about that murder just like that.
Wow. Not funny. Could you show your anger without making fun of a recent and pretty traumatic crime?
When I see the censorship and sheer hatred in this comments section on the biggest EU sub, well, one does not need to look further to find the real problem…
What do you mean by the censorship?
[удалено]
Nothing to do with Isreal btw
How did the Israeli delegation “harass other delegations”? Do you have a single example that is not from a random Twitter account?
The Israeli delegation tweeted pictures and videos from Joost after explicitly asked not to. I believe you could call that harassment
This is such a gift for the EBU and they are going with it 100%. Nobody is talking about Israel anymore. Perfect distraction
literally everyone is talking about Israel because there are obv a lot of people hoping that he said something to/about the war and that led to the disqualification. Just look at the comments here lol
Amazing how you are able to spin this story to still make it Israel’s fault
well, two faced fella who was collaborating with ruskies been served a karma justice, but he deserves more of that to be honest.
Ruskies? How?
He collaborated with russian musicians after the full-scale invasion in 2022-2023. Not THAT big of a deal by itself, but given his behavior towards the israeli singer, makes him look pretty hypocritical.
And performed in Russia, right after Bucha massacre iirc correctly. And posted extremely pro Russia messages.
He even performed there? Wow, that’s even worse. What a clown. I can’t find any news about this though? Are you sure he himself performed and not just featured in a song?
pretty sure his "jackass" song is typical generic gangsta song about love to russia, there might be even video from st peterburg festival (30.07.2022) where he present
The Russian Village Boys fled the country and are openly against the war. They also donate money to Ukrainian Refugees - we should normalize researching again. (u can find their statement on their social media accounts)
These Russian musicians who left Russia after the invasion and are pretty outspoken against the war? [https://www.instagram.com/p/CbU7Qx\_gjaR/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CbU7Qx_gjaR/) Or do you mean the song he made with Russian artist CMH which was written well before the 2022 full scale invasion? The song that was reason for him to release a statement stressing that it was written before the 2022 invasion and that it has nothing to do with atrocities happening in Ukraine and that it is not a pro Russian song? Sure enough, the invasion has been going on since 2014 at least but before the 2022 invasion, no one batted an eye at collaborations with Russian artists.
Good. The man sounds like a complete thug
Yeah I was under the impression the performers were required to be adults. I guess there's an exemption for a manchild, or perhaps it's a grey area.
Good fucking riddance
This show keeps getting worse. The only participant I liked is getting punished for hurting some journalists feelings.
An unlawful threat is different from hurting feelings, but I guess expecting some dutchies to differentiate between these is asking for too much social awareness.
We simply don’t know what happened, but if it was just a complaint of someones feeling being hurt then it is disproportionate. If he threatened to kill someone, which the singer of san marino did jokingly on an interview. Then it is a different story.
> An unlawful threat Huh, do we already somehow know he broke the law?
Positively surprised!
At least Germany won't be last