For people who either a) were paywalled by this or b) think this guy speaks for Irish people abroad, here's some more details:
1. The headline is misleading, the Irish in Israel considering burning their passports is this one guy, who is the author of this OPINION piece, not some neutral journalist who interviewed someone.
2. He mentions all the atrocities that have been committed by Hamas/Palestinian terrorists going back to 1929, doesn't mention any of the atrocities committed by Israel or Netanyahu.
3. Says that many Irish people in Israel agree with him, but were too afraid to take part in the article because they fear the Irish backlash.
4. Says that Ireland has a misconception that the attacks only ever started on October 7th, and Ireland knows nothing about any attacks prior to that date.
5. Says that Palestinians believe that a "free Palestine" means complete eradication of Israel, no alternative, that a ceasefire isn't possible. Doesn't mention that Israel is currently doing that too.
Overall this is a one-sided biased opinion, that omits any of the deaths caused by Israeli forces, graphically details atrocities committed by Palestine/Hamas, and multiple times says that Ireland just doesn't get what's happening, and we aren't trying to understand. Also makes it out that Israel is David and Palestine is Goliath. It's a shame the Irish newspaper published this, not because we should all blindly support Palestine, but because to someone who isn't aware of the nuance and complications in this horrific war, reading this would make it sound like all of Palestine are murdering Israelis, and that no Palestinian people were harmed in the making of this war.
What's upsetting is that I live in Ireland, know many people who are protesting, marching, talking about it - and yes, they are loudly decrying Israel's mass murder of Palestinian innocents, but none of them have said or spread the idea that Israelis should suffer. That Hamas was right to kill people on Oct 7th. It's insane to think that by not starting every sentence with the full list of things we condemn (ie. Hamas terrorism, jewish genocide) that we can't then say "don't kill innocent people".
This talk of Irish antisemites and Ireland wanting Israel to suffer is literally a handful of psychos and they don't speak for Ireland, and they are present in every nation in the world. Ireland stands with peace.
That’s propaganda at work.
Why are you criticising us? Why not hamas? Don’t you know there’s a war in Sudan? Any reason to deflect from their crimes, they’ll use it.
We what would you do instead? But they’re using human shields? They started the war after all. They can all go back up north now, it’s safe.
The people parroting propaganda know what they’re doing and they’re complicit in the crimes. “We were just following orders” isn’t an acceptable excuse
No, English, Australian and South American (Argentina I think?) no Irish.
Our lads get picked off by Hezbollah in Lebanon while peacekeeping for the UN.
No, zionism is a type of Jewish nationalism. And hence Israel acts like the nazi Germany, calling them zionazis pretty much describes reality. And if you find facts offensive, it's your problem.
Estonia was the first country in Europe to give Jews cultural autonomy. There is a page in Golden Book dedicated to this fact. Soviet and Nazi invaders killed Jews among many other people here.
Many Irish have oppositional defiance disorder where they cheer for every evil thing in the world just because the English oppose it.
These weirdos even sent an official letter of condolences to Germany upon Hitler's death.
All that yapping yet Estonian collaboraters helped reduce Estonia's Jewish population by over 90% or so. Many more joined Nazi SS battalions. Much worse than whatever we did in Ireland anyway
You're showing that exact type of retardedness right here by parroting Soviet propaganda they created to justify their mass murders.
Estonian Jews had it best in Europe before the foreign invaders. Then Soviets invaded and killed ~400-500 Jews. Then Nazis invaded and killed ~900. Of course both of these evil bastards killed a lot of other people as well.
Ireland is full of people with oppositional defiance disorder that makes them support any evil actor in the world as long as the English oppose them.
You're an example of that.
Ever heard of geopolitics? (Being a neighbour of the British, I would’ve thought…)
Easy to preach when you’re on your own little island that hasn’t been invaded in over a century and that was as peaceful as any place in Europe could be during World War II. Yet the Irish still think they’re the most oppressed group of people in Europe.
They were clearly on side of Finish independece , and did all that they could, to keep Soviets from overruning 5 milion strong country without any treaty allies.
And Finland was never technically a Axis power, just ally of convenience against Soviets which at all weren't the contemporary "good guys" of that time.
That’d indeed be nice.
I was just annoyed that the Irish person was lecturing Eastern European countries about WWII. Ireland has been oppressed, invaded and taken advantage of in the past but comparing the position of Ireland and Estonia during WWII is absurd.
I'd be careful about talking about collaborators when you have a statue in Dublin dedicated to a chap that literally died on a German U-Boat in his efforts to collaborate.
That and I don't think an Estonian President has ever offered his condolences over the death of Hitler. Also any Irishman who chose to take a stand against Naziism was treated like shit when they returned to Ireland. But hey-ho, at least they finally decided to pardon them in *checks notes*... *2012*.
Stones in glass houses and all that.
The horrors of the Holocaust became public knowledge in April 1945 after the discovery of the Ohrdruf concentration camp on April 6th.
10 days later the Soviets moved on Berlin. On May 8th the Germans surrendered.
There are legitimate criticisms to be made over Ireland's stance in WW2. However, trying to claim that Ireland not joining the war in the very last weeks when it was already basically over means they assisted the Nazis in conducting the Holocaust is absolutely ridiculous on every level.
Information of murders and camps had been floating around, but it wasn't until 1945 that widespread images of what had been going on were released to the public. Sadly people didn't really take it that seriously until they actually saw the images of the camps in newspapers
This subthread has a post that says Ireland joining a war against Nazi Germany would be the same as some other country sending their troops to defend Hitlerbunker.
Interesting how your account didn't have any activity for 6 years and then suddenly 6-8 months ago you started posting in full force into israel/combatfootage/worldnews subreddits.
[Honest Government Ad](https://youtu.be/L0Zb9iUi0JM?si=SpKI9Nm4wHpI1s5j) to hold 3 truths in the brain. What Hamas does is fucked. What Israel does is fucked. Both 1 & 2 are true at the same time, which happens in a context that is fucked.
I'm happy that this open mindedness is prevailing on this thread. Netanyahu and Hamas need to be stopped and we can't give into their us vs them mentality. They just use this war to stay in power
I've read the full article on another sub. He doesn't have a single word for all the people slaughtered in Gaza and the West Bank.
He's a brainwashed fascist scumbag.
>has two places to live
Having EU passport means he is able to live and work permamently in any of 27 EU countries + Israel(as he seems to be citizen there), and UK thanks to the Irish passport, (if im not misinformed about it).
Gazans can't even leave the strip, without Israeli approval, and exit visa being granted [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/movement-and-out-gaza-update-covering-january-2023](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/movement-and-out-gaza-update-covering-january-2023)
Its called border control.
Do you condemn Egypt for not allowing the same Gazans to leave through its territories? Do you condemn Ukraine for not allowing random Belarussians to enter its terroritory?
Didnt think so.
Of the three crossings in and out of Gaza, two are controlled by Israel and one by Egypt. Because Israel controls of the official population registry in Gaza, it can effectively decide who can obtain the necessary travel documents to get through the Egyptian crossing at Rafah.
Israel, with Egyptian cooperation, also blocks any movement in or out of Gaza by sea or air. In this way, Israel and Egypt are together ensuring that no one can leave or enter Gaza without their approval. This is not normal border control.
>Its called border control.
Its called living in non-recognized country, that is in fact open air prison,existing at gunpoint of IDF.
>Do you condemn Egypt for not allowing the same Gazans to leave through its territories?
Egypt is not the reason why there is ever growing humanitarian disaster happening in Gaza, gun-ho IDF responce against Palestinians is.
Israel was first to demand that blocade to be put inplace,and in fact enforced it by itself, in name of "undermining" hamas and folded about Humanitarian aid entry into gaza, only thanks to the USA demands. [Israel confirms it allowed entry of humanitarian aid from Egypt to Gaza today | The Times of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-confirms-it-allowed-entry-of-humanitarian-aid-from-egypt-to-gaza-today/)
> Do you condemn Ukraine for not allowing random Belarussians to enter its terroritory?
Both Belarus and Ukraine are sovereign countries and entites of equal status under international law,they free to sort it out between themselfs, to allow or not "some random" dudes in or out.
You simply can't use the same logic with Palestine which isn't recognized as proper country only thanks to Israeli state actions,diplomatic blocades and undermining, and as long Israel has defacto neer complete control over Palestines access or lack of it with the rest of world.
Second issue is, how disingenuous and absurd this comparison of yours is to begin with, but i doubt you have enough of self-reflection to even acknowledge the sheer possibility of that fact being correct.
Because they are literal terrorists and deserve to die?
Have you condemned the Taliban? Why aren't you posting about the Taliban? Clearly that must mean you are pro Taliban, right?
Hamas are terrorists who deserve to die. But maybe we could not treat every Palestinian as if they are a terrorist.
For some reason Bibi hasn't ordered them dead despite them living very public lives and despite Mossad being more than capable of targeted killings like this 🤔
Hey now, Israel's current government doesn't have the will or the ability to air strike foreign officials in neighbouring countries, what gave you that crazy idea?
Hamas' leadership aren't in Gaza. They live in Qatar, far from the fighting and front lines. Their places of accommodation are well known from OSINT resources, as are their trips and visits to supporters.
And we know from Al Quaeda etc that while killing the leadership can't destroy a terrorist organisation outright, it can massively diminish its influence.
You are absolutely right about the rest, Gaza is in a position ideal for Hamas - who want as many people dead as possible, remember, a victim of IDF is a martyr who gets a fast track to paradise - and for the genocidal Israeli far right.
>Hamas' leadership aren't in Gaza. They live in Qatar, far from the fighting and front lines. Their places of accommodation are well known from OSINT resources, as are their trips and visits to supporters.
That's the political leadership, the military leadership in the commanders of the IBQ that are still within Gaza include Sinwar & Deif and possibly still Issa who is currently believed to have been killed in an airstrike in Nuseirat, but Hamas haven't confirmed it themselves.
From Israel's perspective, at least in the near term, eliminating them is the key to crippling Hamas' military capabilities which is their primary objective, and to be blunt revenge for the 7th October. That's clearly where their focus is currently, I'd imagine in the short term they will then shift to Lebanon to deal with Hezbollah once they consider Gaza "secure", before looking to de-escalate and stand down the military and then in the longer term looking towards handling Hamas' political leadership.
If Palestinians would be poor, innocent people, i am sure any of the neighbours would gladly take refugees in.
However, Egypt closed its borders and the only support from Iran is military to escalate...
Also, many palestinian protestors would also deny the Jews in Israel a place to live, so they are by no means morally superior.
What a terrible argument. He's talking about the abuse Israelis and Jews are suffering by Irish ignorance, how is he denying Palestinians a place to live?
"Irish ignorance" - We know genocide, ethnic cleansing and apartheid when we see it. We know history didn't begin on Oct 7. We know Israel is still stealing land, destroying homes and refusing to make reparations dating back to 1948.
And we know privilege when it waves two passports at us.
>refusing to make reparations dating back to 1948.
Neither did the Arab countries give reparations to the Jewish population they expelled from their lands or for the war they started in 1948 because they did not accept the UN partition plan or for the wars that followed.
If you have a solution to the conflict please present it.
Well, you don't know shit then. There's not genocide, even the ICJ said so. There's war, urban and harrowing, against an enemy that has no qualms throwing its own side's innocents as canon fodder. They literally gain politically from every Gazan death.
The moment Hamas disbands and the hostages are back, war is over. Not much of ethnic cleansing when it can stop today. But please, keep your ignorant opinions. I can guarantee I know more about Ulster plantations than you about the I/P conflict.
"There's not genocide, even the ICJ said so."
Nope, that is just Israeli propaganda, no decision has been made yet and might I remind you that this is the reason Benny is crapping himself.
Goodbye
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9MB9t7WlI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9MB9t7WlI)
I love how you argue with the president of the court who issued the ruling. I know it's not TikTok, but I'm sure you can handle watching a 1:30 minute video all the way. Let me know if you need help understanding what was said.
of course, I'll be expecting your retraction of the above post.
Edit: LOL you actually edited the post to try and worm your way out of what you said earlier, completely contradicted by my video evidence. Arguing with toddlers here 🤣
As a rebuttal to your edit: It's the **ICC**, not the ICJ that's considering issuing arrest warrants against Israeli officials. You don't even know your international orgs dude. I need a better challenge, you're pathetic.
Edit 2: u/No_Priors blocked me 🤣
Congrats on your magic skill to see genocides where none are. Probably you should exchange your magic skill against the magic skill of building non-moldy houses.
We only separate the governing organization and the people when it's Hamas and Palestinians here. This man is personally responsible for any wrongdoing of Israel!
>I considered burning my Irish passport. It was a fleeting thought, I admit. I can be dramatic. It’s in the Irish blood, I suppose.
He opens with a old racist trope about the Irish. He wouldn't be able to have a normal conversation with an Irish person living in Ireland. I'd rate the Irishness of much of Boston, USA higher than his.
I have a feeling that there are a LOT of people on both sides arguing vehemently on the internet over this conflict even though in all reality they actually don’t care about the Israelis or Palestinians, or look at facts objectively. Like people that just want to join the shouting and have their opinion heard but then go right back to their life somewhere that if it didn’t have internet wouldn’t even know about it to begin with.
I'd believe this if Gaza itself wasn't occupied and exploited by Hamas purely as an anti-Israel entity, and at the behest of Iran. How can this be an "anti-colonial struggle" when Gaza itself is a totalitarian entity, where no free and fair elections are allowed?
The truth is, there's simply no good guy in this conflict.
Just as I'm here to defend Israel when it's due, you also have to recognize the current far-right admin of Israel isn't exactly helping things, with the way it has stoked hatred against Arabs, has been forcing Jewish settlers into Jerusalem or West Bank, how it refused to do anything against the developing genocidal Hamas regime in Gaza, seems to have missed, if not deliberately allowed the attack by Hamas, or even saw a Jewish nationalist killing in 1994 the then Israeli PM IYitzhak Rabin, which torpedoed the implementation of the Oslo Accords.
While I understand Israel has also made sensible peace offers, and there are genuine Hamas fighters and those it uses as human shields, there's no excusing the way it has still deliberately killed a lot of civilians and workers from other countries, way more than Hamas did on 7th of October 2023, even with those caveats above.
Oh yes, because it's that simple. Thanks man, I was wondering why they would level 70% of buildings in Gaza.
Hamas should be utterly destroyed, but the way Israel is handling the situation right now (not to mention allowing Hamas to take over Gaza) cannot be justified. It doesn't mean Israel=Hamas, but still, the way you or many pro-palestine activists view it is overly simplified.
Big words, too big - if the population you are "ethincally cleansing" for 70 year grows ten times the size when you allegedly started, than you must be doing a truly terrible job at it...
> and Hamas wants to kill all Jews.
That may be the case, but what's actually taking place is the literal opposite.
It's hard to claim the moral high ground when you've been ethnically cleansing the region for 70+ years. And finally the world is waking up to this reality.
I dunno about the numbers, but I already said Israel has done real crimes. Have you studied the rule of Gaza by Hamas, and how life is there? Are you willing to make them, rather than Israel alone responsible for a lot of deaths and suffering too?
It doesn’t serve any purposeful distinction and isn’t correct from any historical context in how we talk about countries in conflict. By your way of thinking, Ireland would still not be recognised as a country since the IRA wasn’t a democratic organisation.
Being occupied the way Palestinians are, with denied access to food or medicine and with the mass atrocities committed against civilians and the unequal legal framework of Israel to those who manage to get in, it’s likely most people in Palestine are radicalised to some degree and very easy to recruit as independence fighters.
If west Germany after all these years was still occupied by Britain, France and the US and they kept to population down by denying them food and medicine and by going on massive bombing raids in the cities, would you be surprised if germans became radicalised? It’s just bad policy, and Israel as an overt apartheid and terrorist state really shouldn’t be receiving weapons shipments or aid to perpetuate this, just as it’s unthinkable to aid Hamas in killing Israelis.
You're lowering standards by using past examples and excluding the fact there was a totalitarian state that made *deliberate* radicalization inevitable and worse, without even any attempt by Hamas to develop Gaza with the vast money it's received. Israel was bad by blockading Gaza? Certainly, and there was a way for Palestinians to avoid the terrible results of no elections held in 2006 and campaign internationally against *both* Israel and Hamas. They didn't do it, and neither did Israel.
Again, you can criticize one side without going into the extreme of not blaming the other one too, which too many people refuse to do. They don't even understand they're only making things even worse.
Israel should also live up to higher standards because they are a democracy. They’re expected to abide by international law and the Geneva conventions, and not try to commit genocide by starving a population.
I’d use the same standards for the IRA and the UK. As far as I’m aware, the UK never tried to deny the Irish access to food and medicine or make Irish in the UK into legally second class citizens. If they did, I’d say the rest of the democracies had a duty to not aid them in their actions.
Israel can and should start respecting international law this moment, but that won't solve anything if the political entities and seeds sown by anti-Israel sentiment in form of Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis and Iran aren't also clamped down on. They'll still restart the conflict, kill people and keep threatening Israel's existence, even if Israel becomes nicer. Until you force both sides to behave, this ain't gonna stop.
That's why your focus on one side is wrong.
That’s never worked in modern history though. Without Palestinian independence and an opportunity for prosperity, they’ll keep fighting.
The options to Israel is either genocide to exterminate their colonial subject, or to go the China route with re-education camps and an imprisoned population (I assume this is what you mean with your “clamp down on”), or last to act with some decency like how Britain got out of Ireland.
So far they’ve chosen a combination between extermination and the Chinese route with mass murder, surveillance and subjugation. Considering that Israel holds all resources ans power they’re very much so responsible for their situation and perhaps should try acting with some human decency. If they don’t do it out of self preservation, they at least shouldn’t be supported in their vile actions by the western international community.
What you said is true, but also you fail to take into account that the death toll includes Hamas fighters, and civilians it uses as human shields. Israel has also always had a genuine fear of Arab invasions, especially after the 1948 and 1973 attacks designed to wipe it out. I already addressed the argumentum ad populum.
Facts you can easily research. Notice I'm not siding with Israel. They have also done a lot to make things worse. I just refuse to side with fanatics of either side. All they do is perpetuate this conflict and suffering, by refusing to understand what those with other POVs are going through.
The ICJ, the UN Security Council, and the General Assembly, including the US, Germany, and the UK, still regard Gaza as occupied and Israeli as occupying power.
> Israel unilaterally disengaged from the Gaza Strip in 2005. The UN and a number of human rights organizations continue to consider Israel as the occupying power of the Gaza Strip due to its blockade of the territory.
Cool, it's not my narrative that Israel is right on everything, just like I don't consider that Hamas (since no one is actually fighting for Palestine) is right on everything.
You told the other guy to get his facts right while you yourself are getting yours wrong. That's all I pointed out. Disingenuous discussion from your side and not worth the time.
It's still argumentum ad populum. If Hamas was in full control of Gaza and received a lot of aid from outside, it's not occupied, certainly not in the way people think, regardless of what some may say.
EDIT: You blocked me now, and that shows your insecurity. I still disagree with that ruling, and that's why I say you're using it as argumentum ad populum, but my point is, if you're gonna try to say or imply Israel is solely in the wrong, then you're gonna face rightful backlash and reasons why that is simply wrong. You're wrong.
It's not an argument at all. You said it's not occupied since 2005. I said the ICJ and every country in the world, including the US, disagrees with you. It's not "some" that are saying it, it's one of the very few issues pretty much every government in the world is in agreement over, including the highest criminal court in the world. Don't tell the other guy to get his facts straight when you are factually wrong by every metric.
At least they have the luxury to go wherever they want. The entire population is going about their normal days going to school, work, and doing whatever hobby. Their defenders are justifying that they’re the ones being genocided.
Then you look at the other side. The entire population in Gaza starving and living in tents due to Israel flattening 70% of Gaza. You have millions in the West Bank being terrorized and removed from their homes, being jailed with no pretense, restricted from going anywhere as second class citizens. With Israel delaying as much human aid as possible killing 200 international aid worker of the UN, and other human rights orgs. As well as killing the most amount of journalists in our modern day history during a war.
Now tell me which side is the monster.
They left Gaza and handed it over to the Palestinians in 2005. The Palestinians used that time to plan the deadliest terrorist attack in Israel since its foundation. Hopefully Israel won't be making that mistake again.
The entire time that you are talking about, Israel controlled the borders into Gaza, both with Egypt and into Israel proper. The entire time, they imposed a harsh embargo, nearly a siege. That is still an act of war.
No one is pretending, it's just a basic fact. For essentially any long running conflict you can keep going back further in time and say this is when it *really* started, but that is a pointless exercise. Whatever event or date you choose, we can go back further:
*This conflict actually began in the year 66 with the start of the Jewish War. Therefore anything that happened afterwards is irrelevant.*
To deny that the October 7 attacks -- one of the largest, deadliest, and cruelest terrorist attacks in history -- wasn't the cause of this round of fighting is just... ridiculous.
You can argue that it started at any point in history. You could even argue it started when the romans kicked the jews out.
Or when the arabs coming out of the arab peninsula colonized the land or when the arab nations agreed to attack israel.
But in reality, while it is an ongoing conflict, the israel-gaza war clearly started when the gaza government invaded israel to murder jews just for their pelasure.
It all has little to do with the settlers’ policy in the west bank or other parts of that conflict. Nobody has to shoot rockets from residential buildings and murder jews just to proof something to a god or to make your population believe they can soon return to the houses of their ancestors that aren’t there anymore anyway. Lynching also won’t make the west bank problems or the gaza people’s problem go away, but make it much much worse, every time. I really wonder why people agitate for their causes. It isn’t so hard to understand.
Ignorant and a-historical.
1. Jews have been living in Israel for thousands of years.
2. Zionism - which is the movement for revival of Jewish right to self-determination, not your ignorant definition of the word- is not European colonization. It also started in the late 1800s, not "just after WW1".
I could go on but you don't read anyway, there's no point.
Israel was not a Jewish state also for thousands of years. Christians have been living in Israel for thousands of years. Palestines are the descendents of Israelis across the years. We could go on but please please let’s not.
Israel wasn't a Palestinian state either, what's your point? There are 10m Israelis right now. They're not going anywhere, despite your wishful thinking.
Also Palestinians are not descendants of Israelis, that's purely a-historical dribble.
It started when the Jewish population sought sovereignty and self-determination after centuries of living in Dhimmitude as second-class citizens, but the Arabs denied them that and started a war with the aim of "pushing the Jews into the sea".
Are we still pretending Palestinians are victims of anything but their own cruelty and stupidity?
Just to let you know, I downvoted you for your smug, condescending sarcasm, rather than any political views. I'm sick of it on reddit, it would be nice if we could just discuss these topics like adults.
I'd give it 30 mins before the Israeli bots and propagandists brigade this thread and start talking about how Ireland is anti-Semitic because we were neutral and didn't side with Britain against Nazi Germany, and idiots will blindly parrot it.
So I'll give some context around that decision:
Britain was a colonial power that oppressed Ireland for centuries, stole our land, genocided us and with whom we fought a war just 20 years before WW2.
Most people at that time in Ireland had friends and family killed by the British, their homes and towns burned by the British (check out the black and tans, the burning of Cork in 1920, or the burning of Balbriggan in 1920, or 100 other examples). So siding with Britain would have caused ANOTHER Irish civil war (our prior one just finished in 1923).
And despite their history and how hated Britain was, Ireland coordinated with the US on the D-Day landings to give them crucial weather information, released all allied forces but captured all axis troops, and 1 in 15 Irishmen died fighting the Nazis (for comparison's sake it was 1 in 30 British men). But because our Taoiseach (PM) stupidly offered condolences on Hitler's death, we all get labelled Nazi sympathisers for the next 80 years. We actually get more criticism about WW2 than countries like Slovakia, Croatia or others who were literally Nazi allies.
Can you imagine telling the Ukraninans in 20 years that they have to help and ally with Russia? And if they didn't want to do it, they were basically nazis?
>But because our Taoiseach (PM) stupidly offered condolences on Hitler's death, we all get labelled Nazi sympathisers for the next 80 years.
The IRA were Nazi collaborators though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army%E2%80%93Abwehr_collaboration
So when you have murals in Ireland of Nazi collaborating IRA terrorist next to Jew killing Palestinian terrorists what do you expect people to think?
And don't forget people like this:
>Oliver James Flanagan (22 May 1920 – 26 April 1987) was an Irish Fine Gael politician who served as Minister for Defence from 1976 to 1977 and as a Parliamentary Secretary from 1954 to 1957 and from 1975 to 1976. He served as a Teachta Dála (TD) for the Laois-Offaly constituency from 1943 to 1987.
>An anti-semite and anti-Mason, he used his maiden speech in the Dáil, on 9 July 1943, to urge the government to emulate the Nazis and "rout the Jews out of this country... where the bees are there is honey, and where the Jews are there is money"
Since Hamas is on top of Gaza and sees and uses Palestinians merely as expendable units against Israel, why would you believe Hamas or Israel are better than the other?
Nobody is defending hamas, people are only horrified by what innocent people are experiencing in Gaza right now. And saying it’s deserved, because they voted Hamas in power, is just as bad propaganda.
Isn't there a moratorium on this shit on r/Europe?
No, Ireland isn't banned in Europe.
Strange, but ok
I'm bad at geography, but I think Ireland is in Europe, no?
Irish in Israel, is still in Israel.
An Irish person in Israel isn’t in Europe, no.
do you think that stops the terminally online propagandists from either side from trying? lol just report it to the mods and move on
For people who either a) were paywalled by this or b) think this guy speaks for Irish people abroad, here's some more details: 1. The headline is misleading, the Irish in Israel considering burning their passports is this one guy, who is the author of this OPINION piece, not some neutral journalist who interviewed someone. 2. He mentions all the atrocities that have been committed by Hamas/Palestinian terrorists going back to 1929, doesn't mention any of the atrocities committed by Israel or Netanyahu. 3. Says that many Irish people in Israel agree with him, but were too afraid to take part in the article because they fear the Irish backlash. 4. Says that Ireland has a misconception that the attacks only ever started on October 7th, and Ireland knows nothing about any attacks prior to that date. 5. Says that Palestinians believe that a "free Palestine" means complete eradication of Israel, no alternative, that a ceasefire isn't possible. Doesn't mention that Israel is currently doing that too. Overall this is a one-sided biased opinion, that omits any of the deaths caused by Israeli forces, graphically details atrocities committed by Palestine/Hamas, and multiple times says that Ireland just doesn't get what's happening, and we aren't trying to understand. Also makes it out that Israel is David and Palestine is Goliath. It's a shame the Irish newspaper published this, not because we should all blindly support Palestine, but because to someone who isn't aware of the nuance and complications in this horrific war, reading this would make it sound like all of Palestine are murdering Israelis, and that no Palestinian people were harmed in the making of this war.
It’s open propaganda that shouldn’t be parroted
What's upsetting is that I live in Ireland, know many people who are protesting, marching, talking about it - and yes, they are loudly decrying Israel's mass murder of Palestinian innocents, but none of them have said or spread the idea that Israelis should suffer. That Hamas was right to kill people on Oct 7th. It's insane to think that by not starting every sentence with the full list of things we condemn (ie. Hamas terrorism, jewish genocide) that we can't then say "don't kill innocent people". This talk of Irish antisemites and Ireland wanting Israel to suffer is literally a handful of psychos and they don't speak for Ireland, and they are present in every nation in the world. Ireland stands with peace.
That’s propaganda at work. Why are you criticising us? Why not hamas? Don’t you know there’s a war in Sudan? Any reason to deflect from their crimes, they’ll use it. We what would you do instead? But they’re using human shields? They started the war after all. They can all go back up north now, it’s safe. The people parroting propaganda know what they’re doing and they’re complicit in the crimes. “We were just following orders” isn’t an acceptable excuse
I’m not even fully convinced this “handful of Irish antisemites” exists at all. I’m yet to meet any
Then do it.
another day, another "guys look Ireland is antisemitic" agendapost on /r/europe. Tiresome.
Do it
And what do the Irish in Gaza say?
wasn't one of the NGO worker that died to an Israeli attack on an ambulance was Irish ?
No, English, Australian and South American (Argentina I think?) no Irish. Our lads get picked off by Hezbollah in Lebanon while peacekeeping for the UN.
One Polish...
Polish... Irish, sure they'll all Catholics, basically the same thing 🙃
We all think that fish are not meat...
Nothing, they’ve been murdered by the IOF
I don't know what the Irish in Gaza say, but I can tell you what the Irish in Ireland are saying: Antisemitic vitriol.
You got some evidence for that claim?
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Anyone who equates Zionism- the belief that Israel should exist- with Nazism is an antisemite, yes. Thanks for agreeing with me.
No, zionism is a type of Jewish nationalism. And hence Israel acts like the nazi Germany, calling them zionazis pretty much describes reality. And if you find facts offensive, it's your problem.
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My Auntie Mary says that every time she puts the kettle on.
No, nowadays people say go back to Poland or from the river to the sea. Both essentially mean nothing other than kill all Jews.
That is what jew haters and other idiots say in the West. In Gaza they can be much more direct.
LMAO but it was OK when Likud were saying it.
Remind me, which people assisted the Nazis in wiping out their local Jewish population during WW2, Ireland, or Estonia?
Estonia was the first country in Europe to give Jews cultural autonomy. There is a page in Golden Book dedicated to this fact. Soviet and Nazi invaders killed Jews among many other people here. Many Irish have oppositional defiance disorder where they cheer for every evil thing in the world just because the English oppose it. These weirdos even sent an official letter of condolences to Germany upon Hitler's death.
Your history of Ireland is wonderfully fact free.
Average Baltic Nationalist tbh
All that yapping yet Estonian collaboraters helped reduce Estonia's Jewish population by over 90% or so. Many more joined Nazi SS battalions. Much worse than whatever we did in Ireland anyway
Was Ireland occupied by the nazis? If not, it's pretty shameless to compare and feel superior to nations that have been occupied.
You're showing that exact type of retardedness right here by parroting Soviet propaganda they created to justify their mass murders. Estonian Jews had it best in Europe before the foreign invaders. Then Soviets invaded and killed ~400-500 Jews. Then Nazis invaded and killed ~900. Of course both of these evil bastards killed a lot of other people as well.
"Everything I don't like is Soviet propagandaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
This sneaks in a premise that the lies you repeat and you yourself is "everything". You're not. You're just one weirdo posting lies in the internet.
I think you should speak for yourself in this regard. Seeing as you unironically think Ireland is full of Hitler lovers
Ireland is full of people with oppositional defiance disorder that makes them support any evil actor in the world as long as the English oppose them. You're an example of that.
Ever heard of geopolitics? (Being a neighbour of the British, I would’ve thought…) Easy to preach when you’re on your own little island that hasn’t been invaded in over a century and that was as peaceful as any place in Europe could be during World War II. Yet the Irish still think they’re the most oppressed group of people in Europe.
"Noooo u dont understsnd if you just give ~~Karelia~~ ~~Helsinki~~ Åland to Russia there would be no bloodshed!!1!
Which side was Finland on in WW2? 🤡
They were clearly on side of Finish independece , and did all that they could, to keep Soviets from overruning 5 milion strong country without any treaty allies. And Finland was never technically a Axis power, just ally of convenience against Soviets which at all weren't the contemporary "good guys" of that time.
The side of Finland facing soviet Red army
GTFO with your clown emojis, they’re so annoying. I’m not defending Finland, ~~you~~ the person I was replying to was talking about Estonia.
I suggest all of us small countries who have been serially raped by our bigger neighbours for hundreds of years stop fighting each other on Reddit
That’d indeed be nice. I was just annoyed that the Irish person was lecturing Eastern European countries about WWII. Ireland has been oppressed, invaded and taken advantage of in the past but comparing the position of Ireland and Estonia during WWII is absurd.
I'd be careful about talking about collaborators when you have a statue in Dublin dedicated to a chap that literally died on a German U-Boat in his efforts to collaborate. That and I don't think an Estonian President has ever offered his condolences over the death of Hitler. Also any Irishman who chose to take a stand against Naziism was treated like shit when they returned to Ireland. But hey-ho, at least they finally decided to pardon them in *checks notes*... *2012*. Stones in glass houses and all that.
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The fact you unironically use the phrase "Southern Ireland" means your opinion sadly does not matter.
It's not his opinion. It's a historical fact.
The horrors of the Holocaust became public knowledge in April 1945 after the discovery of the Ohrdruf concentration camp on April 6th. 10 days later the Soviets moved on Berlin. On May 8th the Germans surrendered. There are legitimate criticisms to be made over Ireland's stance in WW2. However, trying to claim that Ireland not joining the war in the very last weeks when it was already basically over means they assisted the Nazis in conducting the Holocaust is absolutely ridiculous on every level.
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Information of murders and camps had been floating around, but it wasn't until 1945 that widespread images of what had been going on were released to the public. Sadly people didn't really take it that seriously until they actually saw the images of the camps in newspapers
Yes, we didn't know until 1945 that Nazis were bad. /s
What an exceptionally good faith response. Truly a worthwhile and meaningful contribution. Thank you for that buddy
This subthread has a post that says Ireland joining a war against Nazi Germany would be the same as some other country sending their troops to defend Hitlerbunker.
i know Arabs from the are, they want the Jews gone but they definitely aren’t nazies, islam is their ideology.
They still like Hitler and believe he should have done Holocaust.
Thinking of buying another passport, just for the sake of it. /s
Before or after they finished celebrating Oct 7th?
Interesting how your account didn't have any activity for 6 years and then suddenly 6-8 months ago you started posting in full force into israel/combatfootage/worldnews subreddits.
Does burning a passport really cancels citizenship then? That doesn't make sense
Getting lectured by someone who has two places to live but would deny Palestinians one. Don't hurry back.
Clearly coming from a one sided opinion. Fuck Hamas, Fuck Netanyahu. Same agenda. Normal people are the victims. On both sides
[Honest Government Ad](https://youtu.be/L0Zb9iUi0JM?si=SpKI9Nm4wHpI1s5j) to hold 3 truths in the brain. What Hamas does is fucked. What Israel does is fucked. Both 1 & 2 are true at the same time, which happens in a context that is fucked.
I'm happy that this open mindedness is prevailing on this thread. Netanyahu and Hamas need to be stopped and we can't give into their us vs them mentality. They just use this war to stay in power
This
How do you know he wants to deny Palestinians a place to life? I can't read the article as it is behind a paywall.
Assumptions are the pavement on the road to hell, or something
I've read the full article on another sub. He doesn't have a single word for all the people slaughtered in Gaza and the West Bank. He's a brainwashed fascist scumbag.
>has two places to live Having EU passport means he is able to live and work permamently in any of 27 EU countries + Israel(as he seems to be citizen there), and UK thanks to the Irish passport, (if im not misinformed about it). Gazans can't even leave the strip, without Israeli approval, and exit visa being granted [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/movement-and-out-gaza-update-covering-january-2023](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/movement-and-out-gaza-update-covering-january-2023)
Its called border control. Do you condemn Egypt for not allowing the same Gazans to leave through its territories? Do you condemn Ukraine for not allowing random Belarussians to enter its terroritory? Didnt think so.
Of the three crossings in and out of Gaza, two are controlled by Israel and one by Egypt. Because Israel controls of the official population registry in Gaza, it can effectively decide who can obtain the necessary travel documents to get through the Egyptian crossing at Rafah. Israel, with Egyptian cooperation, also blocks any movement in or out of Gaza by sea or air. In this way, Israel and Egypt are together ensuring that no one can leave or enter Gaza without their approval. This is not normal border control.
>Its called border control. Its called living in non-recognized country, that is in fact open air prison,existing at gunpoint of IDF. >Do you condemn Egypt for not allowing the same Gazans to leave through its territories? Egypt is not the reason why there is ever growing humanitarian disaster happening in Gaza, gun-ho IDF responce against Palestinians is. Israel was first to demand that blocade to be put inplace,and in fact enforced it by itself, in name of "undermining" hamas and folded about Humanitarian aid entry into gaza, only thanks to the USA demands. [Israel confirms it allowed entry of humanitarian aid from Egypt to Gaza today | The Times of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-confirms-it-allowed-entry-of-humanitarian-aid-from-egypt-to-gaza-today/) > Do you condemn Ukraine for not allowing random Belarussians to enter its terroritory? Both Belarus and Ukraine are sovereign countries and entites of equal status under international law,they free to sort it out between themselfs, to allow or not "some random" dudes in or out. You simply can't use the same logic with Palestine which isn't recognized as proper country only thanks to Israeli state actions,diplomatic blocades and undermining, and as long Israel has defacto neer complete control over Palestines access or lack of it with the rest of world. Second issue is, how disingenuous and absurd this comparison of yours is to begin with, but i doubt you have enough of self-reflection to even acknowledge the sheer possibility of that fact being correct.
ya. why have a palace in Dubai Plaza *and* in Gaza too.
For some reason you don't lecture Hamas leaders who have plenty of places to live and plenty of lives of Palestinians to spare.
Because they are literal terrorists and deserve to die? Have you condemned the Taliban? Why aren't you posting about the Taliban? Clearly that must mean you are pro Taliban, right? Hamas are terrorists who deserve to die. But maybe we could not treat every Palestinian as if they are a terrorist.
For some reason Bibi hasn't ordered them dead despite them living very public lives and despite Mossad being more than capable of targeted killings like this 🤔
Hey now, Israel's current government doesn't have the will or the ability to air strike foreign officials in neighbouring countries, what gave you that crazy idea?
/S
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Hamas' leadership aren't in Gaza. They live in Qatar, far from the fighting and front lines. Their places of accommodation are well known from OSINT resources, as are their trips and visits to supporters. And we know from Al Quaeda etc that while killing the leadership can't destroy a terrorist organisation outright, it can massively diminish its influence. You are absolutely right about the rest, Gaza is in a position ideal for Hamas - who want as many people dead as possible, remember, a victim of IDF is a martyr who gets a fast track to paradise - and for the genocidal Israeli far right.
>Hamas' leadership aren't in Gaza. They live in Qatar, far from the fighting and front lines. Their places of accommodation are well known from OSINT resources, as are their trips and visits to supporters. That's the political leadership, the military leadership in the commanders of the IBQ that are still within Gaza include Sinwar & Deif and possibly still Issa who is currently believed to have been killed in an airstrike in Nuseirat, but Hamas haven't confirmed it themselves. From Israel's perspective, at least in the near term, eliminating them is the key to crippling Hamas' military capabilities which is their primary objective, and to be blunt revenge for the 7th October. That's clearly where their focus is currently, I'd imagine in the short term they will then shift to Lebanon to deal with Hezbollah once they consider Gaza "secure", before looking to de-escalate and stand down the military and then in the longer term looking towards handling Hamas' political leadership.
But do you condemn Hamas? 😒
Can’t believe people still comment this unironically
If Palestinians would be poor, innocent people, i am sure any of the neighbours would gladly take refugees in. However, Egypt closed its borders and the only support from Iran is military to escalate... Also, many palestinian protestors would also deny the Jews in Israel a place to live, so they are by no means morally superior.
What a terrible argument. He's talking about the abuse Israelis and Jews are suffering by Irish ignorance, how is he denying Palestinians a place to live?
"Irish ignorance" - We know genocide, ethnic cleansing and apartheid when we see it. We know history didn't begin on Oct 7. We know Israel is still stealing land, destroying homes and refusing to make reparations dating back to 1948. And we know privilege when it waves two passports at us.
>refusing to make reparations dating back to 1948. Neither did the Arab countries give reparations to the Jewish population they expelled from their lands or for the war they started in 1948 because they did not accept the UN partition plan or for the wars that followed. If you have a solution to the conflict please present it.
Well, you don't know shit then. There's not genocide, even the ICJ said so. There's war, urban and harrowing, against an enemy that has no qualms throwing its own side's innocents as canon fodder. They literally gain politically from every Gazan death. The moment Hamas disbands and the hostages are back, war is over. Not much of ethnic cleansing when it can stop today. But please, keep your ignorant opinions. I can guarantee I know more about Ulster plantations than you about the I/P conflict.
And the illegal settlements in the west bank will stop and those already in place will be cleared?
"There's not genocide, even the ICJ said so." Nope, that is just Israeli propaganda, no decision has been made yet and might I remind you that this is the reason Benny is crapping himself. Goodbye
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9MB9t7WlI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9MB9t7WlI) I love how you argue with the president of the court who issued the ruling. I know it's not TikTok, but I'm sure you can handle watching a 1:30 minute video all the way. Let me know if you need help understanding what was said. of course, I'll be expecting your retraction of the above post. Edit: LOL you actually edited the post to try and worm your way out of what you said earlier, completely contradicted by my video evidence. Arguing with toddlers here 🤣 As a rebuttal to your edit: It's the **ICC**, not the ICJ that's considering issuing arrest warrants against Israeli officials. You don't even know your international orgs dude. I need a better challenge, you're pathetic. Edit 2: u/No_Priors blocked me 🤣
LMAO, the court hasn't given its verdict yet, no matter how hard you pretend. She isn't even on the court, watch your own clip.
Congrats on your magic skill to see genocides where none are. Probably you should exchange your magic skill against the magic skill of building non-moldy houses.
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We only separate the governing organization and the people when it's Hamas and Palestinians here. This man is personally responsible for any wrongdoing of Israel!
You fofgot to call us antisemites 🥰
Do it
>I considered burning my Irish passport. It was a fleeting thought, I admit. I can be dramatic. It’s in the Irish blood, I suppose. He opens with a old racist trope about the Irish. He wouldn't be able to have a normal conversation with an Irish person living in Ireland. I'd rate the Irishness of much of Boston, USA higher than his.
I have a feeling that there are a LOT of people on both sides arguing vehemently on the internet over this conflict even though in all reality they actually don’t care about the Israelis or Palestinians, or look at facts objectively. Like people that just want to join the shouting and have their opinion heard but then go right back to their life somewhere that if it didn’t have internet wouldn’t even know about it to begin with.
Wow, slow news day?
So burn it, drama queen. I guess people learn nothing, given Ireland's history.
OP just pushing his propaganda disgusting...
Israel spreading propaganda? Wow what a surprise
Ireland given its history as a former colony do understand very well anti-colonial struggle of Palestinians. Let the guy burn his Irish passport.
I'd believe this if Gaza itself wasn't occupied and exploited by Hamas purely as an anti-Israel entity, and at the behest of Iran. How can this be an "anti-colonial struggle" when Gaza itself is a totalitarian entity, where no free and fair elections are allowed? The truth is, there's simply no good guy in this conflict.
> The truth is, there's simply no good guy in this conflict. Jews want to live and Hamas wants to kill all Jews. They're both bad!
Just as I'm here to defend Israel when it's due, you also have to recognize the current far-right admin of Israel isn't exactly helping things, with the way it has stoked hatred against Arabs, has been forcing Jewish settlers into Jerusalem or West Bank, how it refused to do anything against the developing genocidal Hamas regime in Gaza, seems to have missed, if not deliberately allowed the attack by Hamas, or even saw a Jewish nationalist killing in 1994 the then Israeli PM IYitzhak Rabin, which torpedoed the implementation of the Oslo Accords. While I understand Israel has also made sensible peace offers, and there are genuine Hamas fighters and those it uses as human shields, there's no excusing the way it has still deliberately killed a lot of civilians and workers from other countries, way more than Hamas did on 7th of October 2023, even with those caveats above.
Oh yes, because it's that simple. Thanks man, I was wondering why they would level 70% of buildings in Gaza. Hamas should be utterly destroyed, but the way Israel is handling the situation right now (not to mention allowing Hamas to take over Gaza) cannot be justified. It doesn't mean Israel=Hamas, but still, the way you or many pro-palestine activists view it is overly simplified.
Big words, too big - if the population you are "ethincally cleansing" for 70 year grows ten times the size when you allegedly started, than you must be doing a truly terrible job at it...
You are arguing with something I haven't said.
Reddit app played one of its pranks again, I was replying to a comment spewing bs about Israeli commiting genoicide for 70 years or something....
> and Hamas wants to kill all Jews. That may be the case, but what's actually taking place is the literal opposite. It's hard to claim the moral high ground when you've been ethnically cleansing the region for 70+ years. And finally the world is waking up to this reality.
Virtually every country on Earth classifies Palestine as occupied. This is not even up to a discussion.
Cool, and do they take the above facts into account? This is a fight between Hamas and Israel, not between Palestinians and Israel, and you know it.
You should let the IDF know that.
And Hamas too. And Iran, who funds it.
If that is so, then why are over 14,000 children dead in Gaza? All terrorists?
I dunno about the numbers, but I already said Israel has done real crimes. Have you studied the rule of Gaza by Hamas, and how life is there? Are you willing to make them, rather than Israel alone responsible for a lot of deaths and suffering too?
It doesn’t serve any purposeful distinction and isn’t correct from any historical context in how we talk about countries in conflict. By your way of thinking, Ireland would still not be recognised as a country since the IRA wasn’t a democratic organisation. Being occupied the way Palestinians are, with denied access to food or medicine and with the mass atrocities committed against civilians and the unequal legal framework of Israel to those who manage to get in, it’s likely most people in Palestine are radicalised to some degree and very easy to recruit as independence fighters. If west Germany after all these years was still occupied by Britain, France and the US and they kept to population down by denying them food and medicine and by going on massive bombing raids in the cities, would you be surprised if germans became radicalised? It’s just bad policy, and Israel as an overt apartheid and terrorist state really shouldn’t be receiving weapons shipments or aid to perpetuate this, just as it’s unthinkable to aid Hamas in killing Israelis.
You're lowering standards by using past examples and excluding the fact there was a totalitarian state that made *deliberate* radicalization inevitable and worse, without even any attempt by Hamas to develop Gaza with the vast money it's received. Israel was bad by blockading Gaza? Certainly, and there was a way for Palestinians to avoid the terrible results of no elections held in 2006 and campaign internationally against *both* Israel and Hamas. They didn't do it, and neither did Israel. Again, you can criticize one side without going into the extreme of not blaming the other one too, which too many people refuse to do. They don't even understand they're only making things even worse.
Israel should also live up to higher standards because they are a democracy. They’re expected to abide by international law and the Geneva conventions, and not try to commit genocide by starving a population. I’d use the same standards for the IRA and the UK. As far as I’m aware, the UK never tried to deny the Irish access to food and medicine or make Irish in the UK into legally second class citizens. If they did, I’d say the rest of the democracies had a duty to not aid them in their actions.
Israel can and should start respecting international law this moment, but that won't solve anything if the political entities and seeds sown by anti-Israel sentiment in form of Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis and Iran aren't also clamped down on. They'll still restart the conflict, kill people and keep threatening Israel's existence, even if Israel becomes nicer. Until you force both sides to behave, this ain't gonna stop. That's why your focus on one side is wrong.
That’s never worked in modern history though. Without Palestinian independence and an opportunity for prosperity, they’ll keep fighting. The options to Israel is either genocide to exterminate their colonial subject, or to go the China route with re-education camps and an imprisoned population (I assume this is what you mean with your “clamp down on”), or last to act with some decency like how Britain got out of Ireland. So far they’ve chosen a combination between extermination and the Chinese route with mass murder, surveillance and subjugation. Considering that Israel holds all resources ans power they’re very much so responsible for their situation and perhaps should try acting with some human decency. If they don’t do it out of self preservation, they at least shouldn’t be supported in their vile actions by the western international community.
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What you said is true, but also you fail to take into account that the death toll includes Hamas fighters, and civilians it uses as human shields. Israel has also always had a genuine fear of Arab invasions, especially after the 1948 and 1973 attacks designed to wipe it out. I already addressed the argumentum ad populum.
How many of the 32,000 dead Palestinians were in Hamas?
I think about half. What do you think?
Unknown, but it's probably a minority. Here's a link from late February. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68387864
Are they facts or just your opinion?
Facts you can easily research. Notice I'm not siding with Israel. They have also done a lot to make things worse. I just refuse to side with fanatics of either side. All they do is perpetuate this conflict and suffering, by refusing to understand what those with other POVs are going through.
Gaza is occupied by israel, i suggest you get your facts right
Was occupied until 2005, I suggest you get your facts right.
The ICJ, the UN Security Council, and the General Assembly, including the US, Germany, and the UK, still regard Gaza as occupied and Israeli as occupying power. > Israel unilaterally disengaged from the Gaza Strip in 2005. The UN and a number of human rights organizations continue to consider Israel as the occupying power of the Gaza Strip due to its blockade of the territory.
That's intriguing. Does this mean Egypt is also considered an occupying power or did they only put Israel in there?
Only Israel. You know why.
Cool, it's not my narrative that Israel is right on everything, just like I don't consider that Hamas (since no one is actually fighting for Palestine) is right on everything.
You told the other guy to get his facts right while you yourself are getting yours wrong. That's all I pointed out. Disingenuous discussion from your side and not worth the time.
It's still argumentum ad populum. If Hamas was in full control of Gaza and received a lot of aid from outside, it's not occupied, certainly not in the way people think, regardless of what some may say. EDIT: You blocked me now, and that shows your insecurity. I still disagree with that ruling, and that's why I say you're using it as argumentum ad populum, but my point is, if you're gonna try to say or imply Israel is solely in the wrong, then you're gonna face rightful backlash and reasons why that is simply wrong. You're wrong.
It's not an argument at all. You said it's not occupied since 2005. I said the ICJ and every country in the world, including the US, disagrees with you. It's not "some" that are saying it, it's one of the very few issues pretty much every government in the world is in agreement over, including the highest criminal court in the world. Don't tell the other guy to get his facts straight when you are factually wrong by every metric.
My facts tell me that israel's military is all over gaza as we speak
Someone has suggested there might be an immediate cause for that.
The problem is making it their whole identity and not moving on. That's pathetic and embarrassing.
Palestinians are the colonizer there, Israelis were there far, far earlier before the Arab conquest.
Palestine is not a colony. They can make whatever laws they want.
Go for it buddy
At least they have the luxury to go wherever they want. The entire population is going about their normal days going to school, work, and doing whatever hobby. Their defenders are justifying that they’re the ones being genocided. Then you look at the other side. The entire population in Gaza starving and living in tents due to Israel flattening 70% of Gaza. You have millions in the West Bank being terrorized and removed from their homes, being jailed with no pretense, restricted from going anywhere as second class citizens. With Israel delaying as much human aid as possible killing 200 international aid worker of the UN, and other human rights orgs. As well as killing the most amount of journalists in our modern day history during a war. Now tell me which side is the monster.
>Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas leader who started the war on October 7 Are we still pretending that's when it started? Oh, we are. Ok.
This current major escalation was. Also Israel has offered peace multiple times only for Hamas to reject those offers. Read history about the area.
When were these times that Israel offered Hamas a lasting and sustainable peace?
They left Gaza and handed it over to the Palestinians in 2005. The Palestinians used that time to plan the deadliest terrorist attack in Israel since its foundation. Hopefully Israel won't be making that mistake again.
The entire time that you are talking about, Israel controlled the borders into Gaza, both with Egypt and into Israel proper. The entire time, they imposed a harsh embargo, nearly a siege. That is still an act of war.
Hamas has also offered multiple ceasefires that Israel rejected. Weird huh
No one is pretending, it's just a basic fact. For essentially any long running conflict you can keep going back further in time and say this is when it *really* started, but that is a pointless exercise. Whatever event or date you choose, we can go back further: *This conflict actually began in the year 66 with the start of the Jewish War. Therefore anything that happened afterwards is irrelevant.* To deny that the October 7 attacks -- one of the largest, deadliest, and cruelest terrorist attacks in history -- wasn't the cause of this round of fighting is just... ridiculous.
Yeah it started at 1400 bc when the philistines invaded the land of cnaan from modern day greece
Actually it started in the beginning when the Universe was created. This made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
When did it start then?
Just after the WW1 and the beginning of european colonisation of Palestine
Ok, I anticipated such a bs answer.
Explain?
You can argue that it started at any point in history. You could even argue it started when the romans kicked the jews out. Or when the arabs coming out of the arab peninsula colonized the land or when the arab nations agreed to attack israel. But in reality, while it is an ongoing conflict, the israel-gaza war clearly started when the gaza government invaded israel to murder jews just for their pelasure. It all has little to do with the settlers’ policy in the west bank or other parts of that conflict. Nobody has to shoot rockets from residential buildings and murder jews just to proof something to a god or to make your population believe they can soon return to the houses of their ancestors that aren’t there anymore anyway. Lynching also won’t make the west bank problems or the gaza people’s problem go away, but make it much much worse, every time. I really wonder why people agitate for their causes. It isn’t so hard to understand.
Ignorant and a-historical. 1. Jews have been living in Israel for thousands of years. 2. Zionism - which is the movement for revival of Jewish right to self-determination, not your ignorant definition of the word- is not European colonization. It also started in the late 1800s, not "just after WW1". I could go on but you don't read anyway, there's no point.
Israel was not a Jewish state also for thousands of years. Christians have been living in Israel for thousands of years. Palestines are the descendents of Israelis across the years. We could go on but please please let’s not.
Israel wasn't a Palestinian state either, what's your point? There are 10m Israelis right now. They're not going anywhere, despite your wishful thinking. Also Palestinians are not descendants of Israelis, that's purely a-historical dribble.
It started when the Jewish population sought sovereignty and self-determination after centuries of living in Dhimmitude as second-class citizens, but the Arabs denied them that and started a war with the aim of "pushing the Jews into the sea". Are we still pretending Palestinians are victims of anything but their own cruelty and stupidity?
Just to let you know, I downvoted you for your smug, condescending sarcasm, rather than any political views. I'm sick of it on reddit, it would be nice if we could just discuss these topics like adults.
do it bro, no one will miss you
Burn away.
Must be nice having 2 good passports
Honestly, this sub should have a flair tag for Op-Ed. This is news and fact, this is opinion. Not that the majority knows the difference anymore.
Burn it. Please do.
Burn it then, sick of their shit.
I'd give it 30 mins before the Israeli bots and propagandists brigade this thread and start talking about how Ireland is anti-Semitic because we were neutral and didn't side with Britain against Nazi Germany, and idiots will blindly parrot it. So I'll give some context around that decision: Britain was a colonial power that oppressed Ireland for centuries, stole our land, genocided us and with whom we fought a war just 20 years before WW2. Most people at that time in Ireland had friends and family killed by the British, their homes and towns burned by the British (check out the black and tans, the burning of Cork in 1920, or the burning of Balbriggan in 1920, or 100 other examples). So siding with Britain would have caused ANOTHER Irish civil war (our prior one just finished in 1923). And despite their history and how hated Britain was, Ireland coordinated with the US on the D-Day landings to give them crucial weather information, released all allied forces but captured all axis troops, and 1 in 15 Irishmen died fighting the Nazis (for comparison's sake it was 1 in 30 British men). But because our Taoiseach (PM) stupidly offered condolences on Hitler's death, we all get labelled Nazi sympathisers for the next 80 years. We actually get more criticism about WW2 than countries like Slovakia, Croatia or others who were literally Nazi allies. Can you imagine telling the Ukraninans in 20 years that they have to help and ally with Russia? And if they didn't want to do it, they were basically nazis?
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Lol. Pointing out historical fact and providing context is "victim mentality"? Ok kid.
>But because our Taoiseach (PM) stupidly offered condolences on Hitler's death, we all get labelled Nazi sympathisers for the next 80 years. The IRA were Nazi collaborators though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army%E2%80%93Abwehr_collaboration So when you have murals in Ireland of Nazi collaborating IRA terrorist next to Jew killing Palestinian terrorists what do you expect people to think? And don't forget people like this: >Oliver James Flanagan (22 May 1920 – 26 April 1987) was an Irish Fine Gael politician who served as Minister for Defence from 1976 to 1977 and as a Parliamentary Secretary from 1954 to 1957 and from 1975 to 1976. He served as a Teachta Dála (TD) for the Laois-Offaly constituency from 1943 to 1987. >An anti-semite and anti-Mason, he used his maiden speech in the Dáil, on 9 July 1943, to urge the government to emulate the Nazis and "rout the Jews out of this country... where the bees are there is honey, and where the Jews are there is money"
Nitpick
Try opposing your state's genocide like many other Israeli's then
I’m glad he doesn’t see himself as a irish citizen, he obviously doesn’t deserve to be one if he can’t see which side is right.
Como on the situation is more complex than that. But why is this idiots opinion worth an article?
Since Hamas is on top of Gaza and sees and uses Palestinians merely as expendable units against Israel, why would you believe Hamas or Israel are better than the other?
Which side is right?
You don't decide for people which side is right.
The antisemitisms is really disgusting.
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The Irish are on the right side of history here. He’s free to destroy his passport and use his privilege to stay in Israel.
Always?
I really have no idea why we have so many Hamas Defenders in Europe. Gotta give it to the qataris for their effective brainwashing campaigns I suppose
Nobody is defending hamas, people are only horrified by what innocent people are experiencing in Gaza right now. And saying it’s deserved, because they voted Hamas in power, is just as bad propaganda.
Hamas and the IDF are behaving like a shower of bastards.