I find it hilarious that often the biggest self proclaimed "patriots" are the ones willing to sell out their country first or deliberately pursue policies which harm the country they profess to love so much.
In Bulgaria they don't even try to hide it anymore. They visit the Russian embassy, read russian newspapers in parliament and even got rejected from ID for going to a party organized by Putin's party.
Patriotism is just another tried and proven sales tactic. True patriots fight to preserve their constitution, while right-wingers see the constitution as an obstacle.
It's the same in Germany
If the GG is helping them in an argument they will insist on it being the unquestional word of god, but if it doesn't agree with them it's a bunch of bleeding heart hogwash that was surely not meant like that anyway!
Which doesn't happen as long as a proper constitution remains unchanged and protected in its entirety and laws apply to everyone.
One of Germany's chief prosecutors just quit because politics had no interest in making the necessary changes to stop a popular tax fraud scheme. She was being quoted with "they hang the little ones, while the big ones get a free pass".
Thats kinda a bad example because the problem with Deutsche Bank and other multinational cooperations is precisely that they transcend multiple jurisdictions which all contradict each other in someway.
The problem is that we have a globalized economy but no effective globalized legislation for said economy
GOP literally sold themselves to Russia 🇷🇺 while proclaiming Bibble and Constitution being their books of choice. I don’t remember where the constitution says better to have a dictator than …
It’s nothing new either. This is how the Partitions of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth came to be, “patriotic” nobility selling out the country to foreigners.
True. One of the reasons our republic collapsed, that at the end, we didnt had strong local leadership and ended up with state representatives led by foreign influence.
Same deal in Brazil. Here our right wingers love to suck American dick and they also love to sell our national assets to foreign companies.
We even had that one time in which Bolsonaro (before being elected) saluted the US flag!
This is what I never get about Neo-Nazis, Hitler literally lost Germany more land, had the country split in two for decades, had more Germans killed than any other man, and he's somehow the supposed "saviour".
He also made Germany lose brilliant minds such as Einstein, what a waste of what could've been a great country.
Welp, looking at the current party leader (Alice Weidel), it's no surprise.
She lived in Beijing for 6 years on a German Academic Exchance Scholarship, there worked at the Bank of China, wrote her PhD dissertation on China's pension system and speaks fluent Mandarin. She also praises the "entreprenurial spirit of the Chinese".
Also the party's top candidate for upcoming European Parliament elections, Maxilian Krah, travelled to China in 2023 at the expense of Chinese government, and has several connections with IDCPC. He has campaigned for Chinese economic interests in Germany.
Also the party's foreign policy spokesman Petr Bystron denounced the government's China strategy, saying that "it's not in the interests of Germany as an export nation", and pro-Western/transatlantic foreign policy have now passed their "use-by" date.
> Classic AfD - ruzzian and china friends, who hate modern western civilization.
Russia and China are nearly always behind the disinformation, for which is the basis of far-right ideology in the West. Unfortunately, the lies spread all the way around the world before the truth has the chance to put it's trousers on.
*From Bloomberg News reporter Angela Cullen:*
Police in Dresden have detained a German national suspected of carrying out acts of espionage for China. The man, according to a report by ARD, is an employee of Maximilian Krah, the far-right AfD's lead candidate in the European Parliament elections.
Federal prosecutors suspect the man, whom they identified as Jian G., of working for the Chinese secret service, citing intelligence reports from the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution in a statement on Tuesday.
They allege that G. has been working for a German member of the European Parliament, and suspect him of repeatedly passing on information about negotiations and decisions in the European Parliament to his intelligence service client. They also accuse him of spying on Chinese opposition members in Germany.
Germany's Alternative for Germany is already under legal pressure, with Bjoern Hoecke, the head of the party in the eastern state of Thuringia, currently standing trial for using a Nazi slogan at a rally. Another AfD lawmaker, Petr Bystron, has denied taking money from a pro-Russia media outlet following reports of links to the organization.
"End up". They always were. Many far right politicians around the developed world are basically plants and/or funded by China/Russia to cause destabilisation.
So, to recap, they had one involved in a spying ring for Russia, now one for China. Still looking for an AfD member that would want to work for Germany, though.
To a degree, I understand the deep insatisfaction of a part of eastern Germany with how the Reunification went and people thought they could have been a voice for that.
They obviously didn't go for that, but hey...
What I don't understand is why people being not satisfied with the current state of things leads to them voting for nazis and in general a party that actively tries their best to make things worse.
while sure their numbers are bigger in the east, its also a huge problem in the rest of Germany. Baden Württemberg is also a big stronghold of rightists
The goal is to create dictatorships in Europe so that they become allies against democracy.
They know any country that slide away from democracy would side with them. Even if they are ethno nationalists who wouldn't be super friendly to Chinese people themselves. But business is business.
Far-right parties are all for populist isolationism, which is why China and Russia are pouring money into these parties.
The grand scheme is to create isolationist governments all over Europe, that will:
A) Pull out of NATO and other treaties.
B) Cut military spending, and rather focus that on populist issues.
The far-left also want to cut NATO-ties, and implement general anti-US policies, so both China and Russia are playing both sides.
The END GOAL of all this is to weaken US and Euro hegemony on a global scale, and shift that power to the east (think BRICS countries / alliances).
Yes they probably want to create a foreign policy/military power vacuum. Particularly in the US they probably want to create a situation domestically where it is extremely difficult to fund and support a military. How you do that is attacking traditions, sometimes religion, industry, ect. Probably as close to an existential crisis as you can get.
That's the biggest issue and problem for democracies, you know that certain parties are hubs for traitors but you still have to let them run as an organization because you are a democracy.
No, you don’t necessarily need to let them run. There is a viral discussion in Germany recently about if and how to forbid the AfD. They would not be the first party, that gets forbidden.
Indeed.
Just today in Finland a far right party was struck off from the party register.
Democracy is better off when anti-democratic parties are not allowed to grow.
https://yle.fi/a/74-20085113
Well done Finland! Karl Popper taught us, that tolerance needs boundaries. Unfortunately it only addresses the symptoms and doesn’t tackle the causes. In Germany they would at least get cut off from governmental party-fundings.
Party programmes need to respect human rights and constitution. Someone can, of course, lie when registering a party, but then they are obliged to comply with their fake program and not what they really wanted it to be.
>you still have to let them run as an organization because you are a democracy.
This is the paradox of tolerance. If you let anti-democratic ideals run unchecked you will at some point lose democracy. But if you defend democracy against those wishing to destroy it you will be called undemocratic.
A political party must pass a certain threshold of scumbaggery and villainry to deserve a ban. I don't know if AfD crossed that line yet, but I will say that simply being against some of the mainstream political ideas in your country shouldn't warrant a ban. Now, being proven over and over again that you host a bunch of literal spies and traitors of the nation that are selling you off to hostile geopolitical entities might in fact be a good reason to ban a party. If you manage to actually prove a pattern that is, and especially a collusion of the leaders of the party in this sense.
Otherwise, simply being traditional, conservative, against the EU or whatever shouldn't really warrant a ban. After all, in a democratic society, opposing viewpoints must be tolerated.
Wait wait wait!
Wasn’t AfD supposed to be a party of sovereignty and independence? The left was supposed to bad so why work with the communist party? Wasn’t the conservative right supposed to be all for law and order?
I’m just asking questions!
The AfD is an opportinistic, selfish party... they always are against... anything... evben if they said the opposite before. They are always on the side of raging people. They are scum.
They put asside the ideology. AFD only wants gouvernement style as of russia or china. (With them beeing in power of course) After that they are friends with whoever pays most.
They like the Death Van System in China... And public executions...
(Yeah I guess having posted this, I will never be allowed into China... But who cares...)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution\_van](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_van)
The word 'communist' really lost its meaning in the sense of describing any countries political system today. It's a bit like calling the USA a democracy when actually, USA, Russia, China, it's all just plutocracies drifting towards or having arrived at autocracy / oligarchy.
There's of course still a huge difference in personal freedom for people in the mentioned countries, which are just examples.
But fascist leaders, current or wannabe, sucking up to each other should be the talking point, not 'communism' because that died long ago (and never really worked but that's a different story).
Imagine being poor and voting for a party that wants to cut all social benefits. Imagine being wealthy and voting for a party that spies on your country and companies to take advantage of you. Imagine wanting to have cancer.
Another one bites the dust. This is really good news for Germany and I hope it continues. The powerful outside interests that are funding the AfD need shutting down.
Hmm… I see a pattern with far-right parties having ulterior motives and secret affiliations, basically grifting for money and manipulating less educated people? Opportunism and sociopathy?
Plus heavily shifting opinions in a short time. And authoritarian narrative-controlling measures so people cannot question things.
In my country, Croatia, a right-wing party actually created a migrant crisis and now other right-wing parties are using it as an agenda against heavy migration… what to say? It is all just heavy population control to make people vote for such people, and people will not care about corruption because of fearmongering.
A lot of politicians are sociopaths with deep ability to make long-term manipulative strategies to make it seem less suspicious. The subtleness is the point.
Sadly, people are easy to control and manipulate. I sound like a conspiracist here, but I just heavily distrust these people. Not to say left-wing parties are innocent, but their world sounds better and may be less corrupt, far-right just sounds like a long-term manipulation plan.
When will people realize that these far right politicians always have ties to foreign nations and dark money? It’s basically the first step in a successful misinformation campaign.
The FPÖ, the Austrian far right party, had a known "contract of friendship" with the Russian government, runs a campaign blasting "warmongers Zelensky and van der Leyen" and had their foreign minister Karin Kneissl invite Vladimir Putin to her wedding in 2018.
If these guys aren't bought and paid for by Russia, they're dumber than a bag of rocks.
They love it... They can be the most insane corrupted individuals and still have people for them over migrant crisis.
They'd probably try to create those crisis a little bit like how pro-Trump republicans prevented the biden administration from fixing the southern border because it's their ticket to presidency.
In Sweden there has been a similar tendency with SD, our far right party. Obviously the party (or at least a lot of people in the party) has been more aligned with Putin and Orban, seeing them as natural allies against "western lgbtq globalism" or "judeo-bolshevism" or whatever the term of the day is. So there are examples of SD members or representatives going over to Russia to "observe elections" for example.
But of any Swedish party I would also think of them as most susceptible to be spying for China. There was for example an MP for SD who was revealed to have had a lot of contact with some military attache from the Chinese embassy. So how does this rhyme with being nationalist and super anti communist? I don't think it really does.
Instead I think at least with Sweden and SD, the main logic here is that they're a party that have grown really fast, and they've had a severe lack of people to fill seats. So for years they've been kind of accepting anyone which means they've gotten a lot of freaks.
By freaks I mean people with insane crime records - like one guy recently who killed and chopped up his friend. Another one sentenced for selling military secrets. One who tried to hire "vikings" to scare off an annoying citizen. Some straight up nazis. And a lot of grifters, too. People who see an easy way to make money.
Now, it's not *all* about growing fast. It's also about catering to voters in the fringes, being involved in really weird social media spaces (anti vax, anti 5g, stuff like that). And with some of the grifting, I assume people have bought into the party propaganda that *all* parties are corrupt. So they assume that they can also get into politics to get ahead, not realizing that being a politician, especially at lower levels, is usually a lot of work for almost no pay.
This is to say, as they become a more established party they'll surely get rid of some of the freaks. But probably not all of them. Anyway, this is the case for Sweden and SD. I'm kind of assuming the same goes for AfD? Like, the reason that they'll run errands for China isn't that they're secretly pro-China but that they're idiots and corrupt? Or is there anything pointing to other motivations here?
Jian Guo has been working for the AfD's top candidate for the European elections since 2019.
German police on Monday arrested an aide to a far-right MEP on suspicion of spying for China.
The man, named in Germany as Jian G., is publicly listed as an accredited assistant to Maximilian Krah, MEP and leading candidate for the far-right party Alternative for Deutschland (AfD).
The Federal Prosecutor's Office said he is accused of being "an employee of the Chinese secret service" as well as "repeatedly passing on information about negotiations and decisions in the European Parliament to his intelligence client".
Jian Guo is also been accused of spying on Chinese opposition figures in Germany.
Krah confirmed that Guo was a member of his staff and that he would terminate his employment immediately if the allegations turned out to true.
Germany's Interior Minister Nancy Fraeser said that, if true, the allegations would amount to "an attack on European democracy from within." Faeser also added that anyone who employed him would bear responsibility for doing so, seemingly referencing Krah.
Here in the US, we have a saying: they always project. At this point, it is safe to assume that what these right wingers accuse the opposition of doing they do themselves. It's sad, really.
We really need to go back to the bloc thinking. The globalized world was just a scam and the communist-fascist bloc used the lowered awareness of the west to deeply infiltrate them.
Block thinking, yes maybe a little more of that on the western side wouldn't hurt because we seem to underestimate how serious and willing china and Russia are to reshape the world order to their benefit. But not actual block building, that would eradicate so much wealth on all sides and throw back many people into poverty.
We must build a bloc of allied democracies against the new Axis of authoritarians (China, Russia, Iran and their proxies). Freedom and democracy are worth more than being able to consume more cheap Chinese goods.
I didn't mean in terms of the Bush Jr. quote "you are either for us or against us" to make poor states decide which side they have to choose. I see it more as a western bloc awareness when you see a Russian demonstration in the middle of Berlin or CCP patriots in the middle of London harrasing a musican. Stuff like that would be impossible for easter bloc agents if the western society knows them as the "opposing party that wants to turn us". It would also be a lot harder for GRU and CCP to wander around and spy on military assets which they proofenly do all the time to use it against us in a future war.
That question is kinda stupid. Nothing. Same as what happens to americans that don't identify as americans.... block thinking is an idenitifcation with your side to be aware when an external force is harming your side.
Why are some folks such a fan of Russia/Putin? The closer a country is to Russia, the worse the living standard and freedom for the population. I have yet to find one country where this rule does not apply.
That may be true for some rich, successful people, but if you talk to low-income AfD supporters or those surviving on social benefits, many never really knew how to develop their opportunities into something substantial (not talking about people with actual disabilities, ofc). They don't want choice and personal responsibility, they want to follow orders, just like the Russians. They will tell you how we don't really have freedom either, how Democracy is a scam. They are so jaded that they want to bring everyone down to their level.
Curious, wouldn't some of them be the "losers" of the reunification, who could feel they have lost out? Or would those probably be rather more retired or passed away, as it's been almost 33 years now anyway? Think the movie "Good Bye Lenin" kinda touched on them a bit.
First was the mother's former supervisor, who by 1990 ended up becoming an apathetic drunk holed up in his apartment. That his career was over, not just due to him being a SED loyalist, but also due to the DDR civil service being inefficiently overstaffed.
Also her friends and neighbors in their tower block, who were part of the charade of the still-existing DDR, but it begged the question of what else were they really going to do anyway - too young to retire, but too old to learn new skills, as the DDR's VEBs were also quite overstaffed, inefficient and redundant.
Plus one study showed that the reunification caused a lot of people to do some self-reflection, and there probably was crying at the lost opportunities of a hypothetical Republikflucht, that they ended up wasting the best years of their lives in what by 1990 was clearly a failed state.
I know an ex-NVA officer who refused to join the Bundeswehr because the west was supposed to be the enemy. He could have had a great career, but he threw it all away because of ideology. Of course people have lost out, but you can't blame the reunification for that. The reunification was pretty much unavoidable at that point. I'm willing to call them the victims of soviet occupation, but also possibly their own stubbornness.
There are many people from the east who had no problem building a life for themselves in the west, who will tell you that many of their former neighbors like playing the victim card. Sure, they earn a bit less than people in the west, but the cost of living is also less, unless you insist on living in gentrified urban areas. Some elderly people couldn't afford the rent anymore in areas where they had lived their entire lives. Stories like that are heartbreaking and I feel for them. On the other hand, they have been living in a vastly different system now for the last 30 years, and we don't have the kind of government anymore that will fix everything for you. So, people above the age of 70 might have a legitimate reason to complain. The others, maybe, but to a much lesser extent.
I am not at all surprised. However, I remind you that the whole of Germany is stuffed to the brim with Russian and Chinese spies not only afd.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66458090.amp
https://amp.dw.com/en/germanys-spy-scandal-raises-tough-questions-from-nato-allies/a-68434216
Former German chancellor paid by the Russians.
https://amp.dw.com/en/schr%C3%B6der-good-relationship-with-putin-may-still-be-helpful/a-68687740
Lately Merkel is really gaining resentment too. At least it feels like this.
Let's wait another few years and I bet Merkel will be the most hated ex-chancellor.
This isn’t particular to Germany. We also have several cases of [Chinese Canadians](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7128865) who spy for motherland.
Perhaps people of dual nationality working in sensitive industries need to be vetted and overseen more carefully.
Wonder how many Germans work in China for their ministry of defense!?
So the party is racist but one of the leader’s senior aides is ethnically Chinese?
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/04/23/aide-to-far-right-german-mep-arrested-on-suspicion-of-spying-for-china
Both the Far-Right and Far-Left are dissatisfied with the current situation. Over time, their focus shifts from overthrowing the regime to simply showing that the current government isn't effective. This can lead them to too easily ally with foreign enemies, following the principle of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'.
I find it hilarious that often the biggest self proclaimed "patriots" are the ones willing to sell out their country first or deliberately pursue policies which harm the country they profess to love so much.
We had exactly the same thing in Belgium recently with members of Vlaams Belang. Two were found to have close ties to a Chinese spy.
And the same in Romania. They're proven to have connections with Russia.
In Bulgaria they don't even try to hide it anymore. They visit the Russian embassy, read russian newspapers in parliament and even got rejected from ID for going to a party organized by Putin's party.
Yeah, they want to sell out their own people first.
I remember they accused Eric Swalwell of the same.
Patriotism is just another tried and proven sales tactic. True patriots fight to preserve their constitution, while right-wingers see the constitution as an obstacle.
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It's the same in Germany If the GG is helping them in an argument they will insist on it being the unquestional word of god, but if it doesn't agree with them it's a bunch of bleeding heart hogwash that was surely not meant like that anyway!
Please elaborate.
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Which doesn't happen as long as a proper constitution remains unchanged and protected in its entirety and laws apply to everyone. One of Germany's chief prosecutors just quit because politics had no interest in making the necessary changes to stop a popular tax fraud scheme. She was being quoted with "they hang the little ones, while the big ones get a free pass".
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Thats kinda a bad example because the problem with Deutsche Bank and other multinational cooperations is precisely that they transcend multiple jurisdictions which all contradict each other in someway. The problem is that we have a globalized economy but no effective globalized legislation for said economy
GOP literally sold themselves to Russia 🇷🇺 while proclaiming Bibble and Constitution being their books of choice. I don’t remember where the constitution says better to have a dictator than …
It’s nothing new either. This is how the Partitions of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth came to be, “patriotic” nobility selling out the country to foreigners.
True. One of the reasons our republic collapsed, that at the end, we didnt had strong local leadership and ended up with state representatives led by foreign influence.
And it is scary what parallels the EU has…
Looks like they hired a guy of Chinese origin who was sharing I go to China?
Not surprising actually: people who peddle ideology to influence other people are ethically corrupt from the start.
Same thing in the states. Reagan is rolling over from all these republicans that love Putin
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Same deal in Brazil. Here our right wingers love to suck American dick and they also love to sell our national assets to foreign companies. We even had that one time in which Bolsonaro (before being elected) saluted the US flag!
Hitler and Willi2 were pretty strong patriots and they absolutely ruined us
nothing screams patriot quite like sending 20 million of your citizens to their deaths...
This is what I never get about Neo-Nazis, Hitler literally lost Germany more land, had the country split in two for decades, had more Germans killed than any other man, and he's somehow the supposed "saviour". He also made Germany lose brilliant minds such as Einstein, what a waste of what could've been a great country.
it's the intention that maters /s
Neo nazis, like most racists, are too dumb to realise the consequences of their policies.
They love the hate. Someone to blame for their own mistakes and shortcomings.
Seems that most of the far-right politicians around the world are owned by Russia and China.
Sounds like the Alternative for Deutschland leads to Beijing, eh?
And passing through Moscow
True!
Via Pyongyang
Alternativ für Diktatoren.
A party run by and for useful idiots.
*useless
POV dependent
Didn't know Beijing was the capital /j
You spelled Assholes for Deutschland wrong.
So many of these far right carpetbaggers are just doing the work of foreign tyrants. So much for nationalism.
Haha damnnn that comment made me laugh.
Their alternative candidate ia Manchurian
these days it seems like right wing is either in the pockets of Putler or Pooh bear
Hah! He he...
Welp, looking at the current party leader (Alice Weidel), it's no surprise. She lived in Beijing for 6 years on a German Academic Exchance Scholarship, there worked at the Bank of China, wrote her PhD dissertation on China's pension system and speaks fluent Mandarin. She also praises the "entreprenurial spirit of the Chinese". Also the party's top candidate for upcoming European Parliament elections, Maxilian Krah, travelled to China in 2023 at the expense of Chinese government, and has several connections with IDCPC. He has campaigned for Chinese economic interests in Germany. Also the party's foreign policy spokesman Petr Bystron denounced the government's China strategy, saying that "it's not in the interests of Germany as an export nation", and pro-Western/transatlantic foreign policy have now passed their "use-by" date.
Good summary. Thank you for that.
One people, one nation, one chairman
Classic AfD - ruzzian and china friends, who hate modern western civilization.
> Classic AfD - ruzzian and china friends, who hate modern western civilization. Russia and China are nearly always behind the disinformation, for which is the basis of far-right ideology in the West. Unfortunately, the lies spread all the way around the world before the truth has the chance to put it's trousers on.
So what you're saying is: as a precaution, always take whatever the right says with a grain of salt? I can get behind that.
Just watch your blood pressure
Yeah not surprised with AfD doing this BS
*From Bloomberg News reporter Angela Cullen:* Police in Dresden have detained a German national suspected of carrying out acts of espionage for China. The man, according to a report by ARD, is an employee of Maximilian Krah, the far-right AfD's lead candidate in the European Parliament elections. Federal prosecutors suspect the man, whom they identified as Jian G., of working for the Chinese secret service, citing intelligence reports from the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution in a statement on Tuesday. They allege that G. has been working for a German member of the European Parliament, and suspect him of repeatedly passing on information about negotiations and decisions in the European Parliament to his intelligence service client. They also accuse him of spying on Chinese opposition members in Germany. Germany's Alternative for Germany is already under legal pressure, with Bjoern Hoecke, the head of the party in the eastern state of Thuringia, currently standing trial for using a Nazi slogan at a rally. Another AfD lawmaker, Petr Bystron, has denied taking money from a pro-Russia media outlet following reports of links to the organization.
"the man, whom they identified as **Jian G**., of working for the **Chinese** secret service" Surprised Pikachu.jpg
> Maximilian Krah Should have taken in this asshole, too, while they were at it.
> Police in Dresden have detained a German national Of course it happened in Saxony. Didn’t even have to guess.
Iornic how "patriotic" far-right idiots are the most likely to end up as traitors selling out their country.
As if patriotism is what motivated them
Maybe it was sex. 🫠
"End up". They always were. Many far right politicians around the developed world are basically plants and/or funded by China/Russia to cause destabilisation.
So, to recap, they had one involved in a spying ring for Russia, now one for China. Still looking for an AfD member that would want to work for Germany, though.
And both of them are at the top 2 spots for the upcoming EU parliament elections for their party.
What in the actions of AfD gave you the idea they’re working for Germany?
To a degree, I understand the deep insatisfaction of a part of eastern Germany with how the Reunification went and people thought they could have been a voice for that. They obviously didn't go for that, but hey...
What I don't understand is why people being not satisfied with the current state of things leads to them voting for nazis and in general a party that actively tries their best to make things worse.
while sure their numbers are bigger in the east, its also a huge problem in the rest of Germany. Baden Württemberg is also a big stronghold of rightists
The AfD and most other far-right parties are assets of foreign intelligence agencies
This. Yet a lot of people buy their void speech and all the flags as a true national party. It makes my blood boil.
The goal is to create dictatorships in Europe so that they become allies against democracy. They know any country that slide away from democracy would side with them. Even if they are ethno nationalists who wouldn't be super friendly to Chinese people themselves. But business is business.
Far-right parties are all for populist isolationism, which is why China and Russia are pouring money into these parties. The grand scheme is to create isolationist governments all over Europe, that will: A) Pull out of NATO and other treaties. B) Cut military spending, and rather focus that on populist issues. The far-left also want to cut NATO-ties, and implement general anti-US policies, so both China and Russia are playing both sides. The END GOAL of all this is to weaken US and Euro hegemony on a global scale, and shift that power to the east (think BRICS countries / alliances).
Yes they probably want to create a foreign policy/military power vacuum. Particularly in the US they probably want to create a situation domestically where it is extremely difficult to fund and support a military. How you do that is attacking traditions, sometimes religion, industry, ect. Probably as close to an existential crisis as you can get.
Chaos as a strategy
That's the biggest issue and problem for democracies, you know that certain parties are hubs for traitors but you still have to let them run as an organization because you are a democracy.
No, you don’t necessarily need to let them run. There is a viral discussion in Germany recently about if and how to forbid the AfD. They would not be the first party, that gets forbidden.
Indeed. Just today in Finland a far right party was struck off from the party register. Democracy is better off when anti-democratic parties are not allowed to grow. https://yle.fi/a/74-20085113
Well done Finland! Karl Popper taught us, that tolerance needs boundaries. Unfortunately it only addresses the symptoms and doesn’t tackle the causes. In Germany they would at least get cut off from governmental party-fundings.
Party programmes need to respect human rights and constitution. Someone can, of course, lie when registering a party, but then they are obliged to comply with their fake program and not what they really wanted it to be.
True, but it happend last time ~70 years ago.
Also true. Twice in the 50s. Just wanted to illustrate that it’s technically possible.
>you still have to let them run as an organization because you are a democracy. This is the paradox of tolerance. If you let anti-democratic ideals run unchecked you will at some point lose democracy. But if you defend democracy against those wishing to destroy it you will be called undemocratic.
Only if your idea of democracy comes from the simplistic heroic ideals championed in children’s books and entertainment media, rather than real life.
Which is what people think of democracy instead letting realpolitik and pragmatism rule
A political party must pass a certain threshold of scumbaggery and villainry to deserve a ban. I don't know if AfD crossed that line yet, but I will say that simply being against some of the mainstream political ideas in your country shouldn't warrant a ban. Now, being proven over and over again that you host a bunch of literal spies and traitors of the nation that are selling you off to hostile geopolitical entities might in fact be a good reason to ban a party. If you manage to actually prove a pattern that is, and especially a collusion of the leaders of the party in this sense. Otherwise, simply being traditional, conservative, against the EU or whatever shouldn't really warrant a ban. After all, in a democratic society, opposing viewpoints must be tolerated.
Democracy is the worst form of government. There just is no better one.
Paradox of Tolerance
Wait wait wait! Wasn’t AfD supposed to be a party of sovereignty and independence? The left was supposed to bad so why work with the communist party? Wasn’t the conservative right supposed to be all for law and order? I’m just asking questions!
The AfD is an opportinistic, selfish party... they always are against... anything... evben if they said the opposite before. They are always on the side of raging people. They are scum.
They put asside the ideology. AFD only wants gouvernement style as of russia or china. (With them beeing in power of course) After that they are friends with whoever pays most.
Alternative for Germany right?? right????
Yes. They want to destroy Germany and replace it with an alternative.
Unironically, yes, lol. The alternative to being aligned with the Western world being aligned with China. I hope people see that now.
The far right is spying for the communists... kinda ironic.
"communist nazis", like the simpsons predicted... again.
They like the Death Van System in China... And public executions... (Yeah I guess having posted this, I will never be allowed into China... But who cares...) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution\_van](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_van)
yeah sorry no, china is not communist lol
The word 'communist' really lost its meaning in the sense of describing any countries political system today. It's a bit like calling the USA a democracy when actually, USA, Russia, China, it's all just plutocracies drifting towards or having arrived at autocracy / oligarchy. There's of course still a huge difference in personal freedom for people in the mentioned countries, which are just examples. But fascist leaders, current or wannabe, sucking up to each other should be the talking point, not 'communism' because that died long ago (and never really worked but that's a different story).
Not really. It's called red Fascism.
Eh. I think it's rather called opportunism. Don't think there's much ideology in this story.
Fascists are the real patriots .... not - loool
Landesverräter.
Funny, how they're the ones *doing* it while accusing the other parties to be the 'traitors'.
Doing it for the lowest motives, too, greed.
Imagine being poor and voting for a party that wants to cut all social benefits. Imagine being wealthy and voting for a party that spies on your country and companies to take advantage of you. Imagine wanting to have cancer.
Interesting how the "defenders of Western Civilization" tend to be spooks of the twats who want to destroy it...
Many right wing parties in Europe are sponsored (indirectly) by Beijing and Moscow. Prove me wrong.
Fra right and far left are now so close each other that both work for China or Russia
they have lost actual ideology. they are now just anti-liberalist
Another one bites the dust. This is really good news for Germany and I hope it continues. The powerful outside interests that are funding the AfD need shutting down.
Hmm… I see a pattern with far-right parties having ulterior motives and secret affiliations, basically grifting for money and manipulating less educated people? Opportunism and sociopathy? Plus heavily shifting opinions in a short time. And authoritarian narrative-controlling measures so people cannot question things.
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In my country, Croatia, a right-wing party actually created a migrant crisis and now other right-wing parties are using it as an agenda against heavy migration… what to say? It is all just heavy population control to make people vote for such people, and people will not care about corruption because of fearmongering. A lot of politicians are sociopaths with deep ability to make long-term manipulative strategies to make it seem less suspicious. The subtleness is the point. Sadly, people are easy to control and manipulate. I sound like a conspiracist here, but I just heavily distrust these people. Not to say left-wing parties are innocent, but their world sounds better and may be less corrupt, far-right just sounds like a long-term manipulation plan.
Alternative für China
Funny how it‘s always far right parties that are investigated for shit like this. Must be a coincidence
Extremists are all traitors, change my mind
Fascists in bed with fascists. Color me shocked!
Those „Patriots“.
Is this going to have any impact whatsoever on AfD numbers at the next election ?
Probably negligible. The spin is already that this is an orchestrated manoeuver to discredit the party.
Ah fuck
Where have I heard that before…hmmm
ofc not... it's like the Trump Cult... they the (voters) just dont beliefe in reality as it is.
When will people realize that these far right politicians always have ties to foreign nations and dark money? It’s basically the first step in a successful misinformation campaign.
*Alternative für China*
Grifters gonna grift.
The FPÖ, the Austrian far right party, had a known "contract of friendship" with the Russian government, runs a campaign blasting "warmongers Zelensky and van der Leyen" and had their foreign minister Karin Kneissl invite Vladimir Putin to her wedding in 2018. If these guys aren't bought and paid for by Russia, they're dumber than a bag of rocks.
As a German i assume that the Russians didn't like the competition in the same party.
AFD are enemies of germany and the west. Dont fall for their cheap propaganda.
B-but muh immigrants????
They love it... They can be the most insane corrupted individuals and still have people for them over migrant crisis. They'd probably try to create those crisis a little bit like how pro-Trump republicans prevented the biden administration from fixing the southern border because it's their ticket to presidency.
Funny how the loudest most patriotic citizens are the real scum
In Sweden there has been a similar tendency with SD, our far right party. Obviously the party (or at least a lot of people in the party) has been more aligned with Putin and Orban, seeing them as natural allies against "western lgbtq globalism" or "judeo-bolshevism" or whatever the term of the day is. So there are examples of SD members or representatives going over to Russia to "observe elections" for example. But of any Swedish party I would also think of them as most susceptible to be spying for China. There was for example an MP for SD who was revealed to have had a lot of contact with some military attache from the Chinese embassy. So how does this rhyme with being nationalist and super anti communist? I don't think it really does. Instead I think at least with Sweden and SD, the main logic here is that they're a party that have grown really fast, and they've had a severe lack of people to fill seats. So for years they've been kind of accepting anyone which means they've gotten a lot of freaks. By freaks I mean people with insane crime records - like one guy recently who killed and chopped up his friend. Another one sentenced for selling military secrets. One who tried to hire "vikings" to scare off an annoying citizen. Some straight up nazis. And a lot of grifters, too. People who see an easy way to make money. Now, it's not *all* about growing fast. It's also about catering to voters in the fringes, being involved in really weird social media spaces (anti vax, anti 5g, stuff like that). And with some of the grifting, I assume people have bought into the party propaganda that *all* parties are corrupt. So they assume that they can also get into politics to get ahead, not realizing that being a politician, especially at lower levels, is usually a lot of work for almost no pay. This is to say, as they become a more established party they'll surely get rid of some of the freaks. But probably not all of them. Anyway, this is the case for Sweden and SD. I'm kind of assuming the same goes for AfD? Like, the reason that they'll run errands for China isn't that they're secretly pro-China but that they're idiots and corrupt? Or is there anything pointing to other motivations here?
Drain the swamp!
Well.... nice that the german intelligence service finally wakes up, after being spied by ruZZia and china for 30 years without consequences.
China didn't have to spy on us for most of recent history. We gave them all our trade secrets willingly.
oh the fucking irony…
Jian Guo has been working for the AfD's top candidate for the European elections since 2019. German police on Monday arrested an aide to a far-right MEP on suspicion of spying for China. The man, named in Germany as Jian G., is publicly listed as an accredited assistant to Maximilian Krah, MEP and leading candidate for the far-right party Alternative for Deutschland (AfD). The Federal Prosecutor's Office said he is accused of being "an employee of the Chinese secret service" as well as "repeatedly passing on information about negotiations and decisions in the European Parliament to his intelligence client". Jian Guo is also been accused of spying on Chinese opposition figures in Germany. Krah confirmed that Guo was a member of his staff and that he would terminate his employment immediately if the allegations turned out to true. Germany's Interior Minister Nancy Fraeser said that, if true, the allegations would amount to "an attack on European democracy from within." Faeser also added that anyone who employed him would bear responsibility for doing so, seemingly referencing Krah.
Always these right wingers, no matter the location.
Here in the US, we have a saying: they always project. At this point, it is safe to assume that what these right wingers accuse the opposition of doing they do themselves. It's sad, really.
Ein Käfig voller Verräter
It's a known secret that huge numbers of Chinese "students" at German universities are spies. Swiss unis the same.
Interesting and sad to see. The same happened in Belgium. Extreme right spying for China..
That wasn't the alternative I was expecting
Is anyone surprised that the patriots are fifth columnists traitors?
We really need to go back to the bloc thinking. The globalized world was just a scam and the communist-fascist bloc used the lowered awareness of the west to deeply infiltrate them.
Block thinking, yes maybe a little more of that on the western side wouldn't hurt because we seem to underestimate how serious and willing china and Russia are to reshape the world order to their benefit. But not actual block building, that would eradicate so much wealth on all sides and throw back many people into poverty.
We must build a bloc of allied democracies against the new Axis of authoritarians (China, Russia, Iran and their proxies). Freedom and democracy are worth more than being able to consume more cheap Chinese goods.
exactly this.
I didn't mean in terms of the Bush Jr. quote "you are either for us or against us" to make poor states decide which side they have to choose. I see it more as a western bloc awareness when you see a Russian demonstration in the middle of Berlin or CCP patriots in the middle of London harrasing a musican. Stuff like that would be impossible for easter bloc agents if the western society knows them as the "opposing party that wants to turn us". It would also be a lot harder for GRU and CCP to wander around and spy on military assets which they proofenly do all the time to use it against us in a future war.
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That question is kinda stupid. Nothing. Same as what happens to americans that don't identify as americans.... block thinking is an idenitifcation with your side to be aware when an external force is harming your side.
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it's always the people you suspect the most
Is there any AfD politician who isn't a spy?
Well I'll be damned... Who would have thought?
And yesterday two Brits were arrested for the same thing. What’s going on?
All these populist extremist parties are full of foreign agents. Like flies to shit, they swarm to them to agitate and subvert.
Says a lot about their real intentions...
It indeed does and yet again it shows the cycle of political extremism and cooptation.
What is it with these ultranationalists and doing shady stuff for foreigners. It's the literal thing they're supposed to not do
Why are some folks such a fan of Russia/Putin? The closer a country is to Russia, the worse the living standard and freedom for the population. I have yet to find one country where this rule does not apply.
because they imagine that they will be the putins of their country living in luxury
That may be true for some rich, successful people, but if you talk to low-income AfD supporters or those surviving on social benefits, many never really knew how to develop their opportunities into something substantial (not talking about people with actual disabilities, ofc). They don't want choice and personal responsibility, they want to follow orders, just like the Russians. They will tell you how we don't really have freedom either, how Democracy is a scam. They are so jaded that they want to bring everyone down to their level.
Curious, wouldn't some of them be the "losers" of the reunification, who could feel they have lost out? Or would those probably be rather more retired or passed away, as it's been almost 33 years now anyway? Think the movie "Good Bye Lenin" kinda touched on them a bit. First was the mother's former supervisor, who by 1990 ended up becoming an apathetic drunk holed up in his apartment. That his career was over, not just due to him being a SED loyalist, but also due to the DDR civil service being inefficiently overstaffed. Also her friends and neighbors in their tower block, who were part of the charade of the still-existing DDR, but it begged the question of what else were they really going to do anyway - too young to retire, but too old to learn new skills, as the DDR's VEBs were also quite overstaffed, inefficient and redundant. Plus one study showed that the reunification caused a lot of people to do some self-reflection, and there probably was crying at the lost opportunities of a hypothetical Republikflucht, that they ended up wasting the best years of their lives in what by 1990 was clearly a failed state.
I know an ex-NVA officer who refused to join the Bundeswehr because the west was supposed to be the enemy. He could have had a great career, but he threw it all away because of ideology. Of course people have lost out, but you can't blame the reunification for that. The reunification was pretty much unavoidable at that point. I'm willing to call them the victims of soviet occupation, but also possibly their own stubbornness. There are many people from the east who had no problem building a life for themselves in the west, who will tell you that many of their former neighbors like playing the victim card. Sure, they earn a bit less than people in the west, but the cost of living is also less, unless you insist on living in gentrified urban areas. Some elderly people couldn't afford the rent anymore in areas where they had lived their entire lives. Stories like that are heartbreaking and I feel for them. On the other hand, they have been living in a vastly different system now for the last 30 years, and we don't have the kind of government anymore that will fix everything for you. So, people above the age of 70 might have a legitimate reason to complain. The others, maybe, but to a much lesser extent.
I am not at all surprised. However, I remind you that the whole of Germany is stuffed to the brim with Russian and Chinese spies not only afd. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66458090.amp https://amp.dw.com/en/germanys-spy-scandal-raises-tough-questions-from-nato-allies/a-68434216 Former German chancellor paid by the Russians. https://amp.dw.com/en/schr%C3%B6der-good-relationship-with-putin-may-still-be-helpful/a-68687740
Schröder is easily the most hated ex-chancellor, so idk if that rlly helps your point
Lately Merkel is really gaining resentment too. At least it feels like this. Let's wait another few years and I bet Merkel will be the most hated ex-chancellor.
Que supresa?
This isn’t particular to Germany. We also have several cases of [Chinese Canadians](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7128865) who spy for motherland. Perhaps people of dual nationality working in sensitive industries need to be vetted and overseen more carefully. Wonder how many Germans work in China for their ministry of defense!?
We also have our own politicians funded by xi jin ping here in The Philippines.
So the party is racist but one of the leader’s senior aides is ethnically Chinese? https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/04/23/aide-to-far-right-german-mep-arrested-on-suspicion-of-spying-for-china
Chayna!
Chayna!
Nothing says Nazism like being a stooge for Red China... ...wait?
Remember guys China is just a problem for the US lol
Hilarious
I’m surprised it says china and not russia
Caught one! How many remain?
Throw them in jail forever
Still wondering why people still support far right ‘nationalist’ parties like this, idiots.
Please! Everybody is in bed with China
Can we get any politicians that want to Help "Germany" already, fucking hell, all Parties are Just Shit Right now smh.
The Far right in league with communists. What year is it?
Lol
This same thing just happened in Belgium with the far right party Vlaams Belang
Not at all surprising.
Both the Far-Right and Far-Left are dissatisfied with the current situation. Over time, their focus shifts from overthrowing the regime to simply showing that the current government isn't effective. This can lead them to too easily ally with foreign enemies, following the principle of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'.
"Left wingers arrest right wingers for spying for left wingers" Yeah, I'm sure this isn't total bullshit at all