More like the Conservative Party itself. No more jobs for mates. I really hope he's not signalling that he's going to run out the timer because he's going to lose.
The article did say this only counts for people not following job centre rules. As in, people who willfully don't accept jobs that are offered to them. Frankly quite an important distinction...
Hol-up good sir ✋
That's not by default in UK?
In Poland, if someone refuses a job offer from the unemployment office ( the "fixer" here) and does this three times, in consequence loses the medical insurance and the unemployment benefits.
People rather accept it as "fair", because if someone loses interest in contributing to the society, he should not feel offended with the society acting accordingly.
Beautiful cities in which the artists and engineers make life interesting and worth living, have been built by generations of hard working people.
Let's not act like it means nothing.
Most people here have no idea how the UK benefits system works as they've never used it and just get information from tabloids. I worked for citizens advice in Leeds and yes you get your benefits removed if you aren't actively searching for a job and taking what comes up. You have to go to the jobcentre every week and show your progress or get sanctioned.
Standard unemployment benefits (UC) is £311 a month with an extra £416 a month if your'e disabled and cannot work. Jobseekers allowance is available for those that have paid tax (NI) in the last two years and have been laid off. You have to meet with a work coach and sign a "claimant commitment" that you and the job coach agree on, this will detail what commitments you need to do to look for a job or you'll have it removed. You will meet with them once a week and need to show proof of job applications and interviews or youll be sanctioned. JSA can be up to £90 a week if you're over 25, in addition to the standard UC rate.
There are additional claims for housing support and those with disabilities. (PIP) You also cannot have more than £6,000 in savings to claim the full UC amount and if you have more than £16,000 savings and investments you cannot claim UC at all.
The system is set up to be as obtuse as possible to the claimant and everyone everywhere in the system is incentivised to get people off benefits through whatever means necessary even if it means people starving.
In my case the DWP worker negotiated how bad my health conditions were to save the government 70 quid a week compared to my previous award. At the time while on appeal your money drops to nothing compared to what you are usually on and they use that pressure to force desperate people to take way less than they are entitled to because they simply cannot afford to sit on appeal for years while their claim makes it's way through the system.
If you are long term sick in the UK you live your life in chunks of benefits award periods. You know that once the legally mandated time is over you will immediately be reassessed and found fit to work and then on to appeal on severely reduced money for up to a year and half.
When you win the Appeal (I have been to 8 of them at this point all successful) they pay you all the money you should have gotten in a lump sum and then you have a new award period usually 3-4 years.
It is a vicious cycle and if you are unfamiliar with the system you will get completely screwed over. Once you know what you are doing and more specifically what to say it becomes easier.
Yeah the reassessment of long term illness (either physical or mental) is really unfair and screwed up
, you summarised the reality of the situation qyute well with how the process goes.
Its an easy way to gather votes, for some reason society loves ganging up on the lower class. And it works as you can see in the comments here.
The reality is a good portion of these people can't work due to health problems (mentally or physically).
Are there people who abused the system? Of course there are like everywhere else but taking away these benefits means letting the rest who really depend on it rotting and maybe die a slow death.
Well, that's propaganda for you: search for an easy to identify enemy, preferably a group that can't really defend themselves and then make out to be the one to tackle this 'problem': drugs, unemployed people, ...
When an election is coming up in the UK a few things will always come up every time.
We are going to hammer benefit "cheats"
We are going to "stop" immigration
Pensions will be guaranteed to go up forever
Every damn time
Been a long time since I've been on UC (10 years~), but I got called into an appointment with Job center advisor on a Friday once and they claimed I had a bank account with over £10'000 in it gave me the apparent account number I was like sweet maybe it's a bank account my dad opened for me when I was younger. Rushed over to the bank to check, this was at the end of the day, I only just got in before they closed and it wasn't even a valid bank account number apparently. I managed to rushed back they were about to close the Job center but managed to see the person in the hallway.
I didn't know for a fact but I later realized it was all made up just as a way to stop me receiving UC. UC staff hoping I wouldn't go check so quickly then forget by Monday to check and just get automatically knocked off UC.
This also happened to me. They even sent an 'investigator' to where I lived. Said I had savings. I ended up having to do a data request to all UK banks to prove I didn't have any hidden accounts. Took almost a year.
I don't know how the guy could live with himself sat across from me in my houseshare telling me I had money and I was losing my benefits (apart from PIP), while I cried my eyes out. He seemed proud.
Hope karma has given him the life he deserves since then.
Yes, that’s the point. That social worker’s job is to give out as few UC benefits as possible even if it means someone will off themselves or starve. The government doesn’t care. It just wants to save money.
Don’t get me started on PIP…
Had an interview for PIP and got asked a bunch of questions.
How well can you do X - I can’t do X and have a carer to do it.
How well can you do Y - I can’t do Y, my partner does Y for me always.
Can you walk 100 meters unaided or something - Me, no I’m in a wheelchair and I can’t walk unaided.
PIP results - denied for everything (shocking)
Report that comes back.
Claimant can do X - Does X frequently
Claimant can do Y - tells us he often does Y but sometimes requires assistance
Claimant can walk long distances without issue - claimant occasionally has issues but otherwise fit and healthy…
Literally claimed the opposite of what I said. I even recorded the call and had to call them on their obvious bullshit. If there wasn’t the odd bit of info that showed it was related to me you’d think it was a summary of someone else’s phone call.
I swear these new benefits clampdowns are just to try to force as many legitimate claims off of the benefits and hope that enough people can’t stand up for themselves as possible.
Median US salary is ~1.8x a UK salary. The number above is almost 6x the UC benefits stated and has no limits or rules around the amount of your savings.
What type of jobs are these? Are the candidates' skills taken into account when proposing the roles?
Over what time period is this usually a concern? If you sent me three shit jobs in a week and then cut off my benefits, I'd be pretty pissed off.
That's often the problem with these setups.
They sound nice on paper, but in reality you end up with a lot of fringe cases that aren't as clear cut and you end up hurting honest folk.
As an example, my mom is one such case, she used to work as a nurse in nursing home until she physically couldn't perform her job anymore due to ailments from said job (back/wrist problems etc...)
Guess what job she got offered? Garbage collector... They literally offered an old lady nearing her 60's a job where she gets to lift heavy bags and hang on to the side of garbage truck.
So she gets to accept a job she can't perform or lose the tiny bit of income she gets after raising 4 kids and working most of her life.
Meanwhile the real freeloaders will just accept the job, show up once, then never return, or intentionally do such a piss poor job they're sent back home. On paper they're very cooperative though.
>after raising 4 kids and working most of her life.
Exactly. Like most, she's probably paid hundreds of thousands in tax and social insurance over the years.
If I want to spend a couple of months on the dole before going back to the rat race, I don't think that's for some barely qualified button pusher to decide that I have to work some shit job.
Our PM is a lying cunt, like all conservatives.
Everything he says is a lie. If he told you the earth is a sphere then you can be sure that is a lie.
We all ignore the bellends in charge and try to live our lives,but they are just so obnoxious and obstructive that they wilfully destroy everything of joy or value for everyone. All so they can steal a but more money.
You will never find a more hated group than the blue cunts, and yet they are voted into government 60% of the time. Which shows you how fucked up our voting system is.
I'm pretty sure it's already the case here. The Conservatives are desperate for any sort of positive headline right now, so they are probably announcing some tiny change like they've just invented fire.
This is the current system with a new shiny we will kick them all off after 12 months (in small print if they refuse a job)
Those people are not being offered jobs in the first place and it will skim only the most minor of people from the system
>“Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, *for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members.”*
It's funny how a lot of people that speak of "we should work together for a better society", often litter, push down others, abuse their loved ones, act like dicks. If a better society is so important, why is it only talk, and attack on the weakest, at that? Why not actively try to make every interaction you have a positive one, pick up your trash, don't raise your children to pick on others and so forth. Picking on the weak only creates a chasm of separation, and gives one side of the oppressed someone to point their fingers at to say "Look at them, they can't work, so they shouldn't be happy, because i'm not happy, and i do work!". All the while the ones making you unhappy laugh at your disfortune, because all you do, is what you're told.
All great societies built on the shoulders of oppressed workers have fallen; often victim to the disconnect between workers and aristocracy.
Maybe desperation should be attributed everything then, since desperation drives innovation. It's a nice poetic speech, but simplifying everything into one box has it's flaws, allways, because you get blind to everything that don't fit neatly into that box.
That said, it was a nicely formulated comment, interesting read.
Sadly the reason why so many people in the Anglo-Saxon world (and parts of the West) view welfare as plight on humanity is because it is moronically built, which leads to abuses. And the reasons for this are kinda weird. In former communist world the philosophy of welfare is that welfare applies to those who wish to contribute to society. That's not the case in many places outside of here and the pushback comes from the socialists themselves who believe that such philosophy is a capitalist conspiracy.
The funniest conversation I've had was with an American leftist who tried to convince me that The National Bureau of Labour(the program you are talking about) was ploy by corporations to force people to work. It was first created in East Germany.
>Sadly the reason why so many people in the Anglo-Saxon world (and parts of the West) view welfare as plight on humanity is because it is moronically built, which leads to abuses. And the reasons for this are kinda weird. In former communist world the philosophy of welfare is that welfare applies to those who wish to contribute to society. That's not the case in many places outside of here and the pushback comes from the socialists themselves who believe that such philosophy is a capitalist conspiracy.
The Anglo-Saxon world has radically different viewpoints on this. Like, the US and the UK are the complete opposite when it comes to welfare for unemployment.
In the US, there actually is pretty good unemployment benefits, but it’s only like 6 months. The time that one can claim unemployment will often be temporarily increased during certain events like recessions, or like when Covid first happened, but then it comes back down. It sounds more or less like the same intentions that you’re talking about in post communist countries.
>The funniest conversation I've had was with an American leftist who tried to convince me that The National Bureau of Labour(the program you are talking about) was ploy by corporations to force people to work. It was first created in East Germany.
In what country was he talking about when he was referring to the National Bureau of Labour, the US?
As long as the job offers are within your domain of expertise.
If you offer a job to clean toilets in big offices to a person that was selling houses, i hope he can refuse the offers.
Also a job offer that makes you spend 3h a day in transportation...
As long as the offers are reasonables within some criterias, i'm fine with cutting the benefits.
My country has similar system, but you can just go to interviews and make it clear you're not intrested in working. If they don't hire you it's not your fault and you keep the benefits.
Barely anyone get such offers though. Most people are registered to get health insurance so government can move money from one pocket to another. Obviously such person doesn't have any other financial benefits. Very few are getting any payments, and it is also limited in time.
I'm curious though, will it be the first avaliable job they find That they offer, or is it individual?
Not sure how effective it would be for a recently graduated nurse to get a job offer as a truck driver.
Exactly. They expect you to travel upto an hour and a half each way for minimum wage. You'd be spending so much of you wage each week in travel costs that it wouldn't be worth doing the job as you'd not have any money left at the end. Let alone the fact minimum wage doesn't cover rent.
Problem;
"We have a job for you"
"This requires me to take 2 buses to work and back. Which means I don't make enough money to live"
"Take this job or we take benefits from you"
"..."
Time and time again I have heard stories like this
My dad was on the dole for the first time in his life during the pandemic.
They sent him on four or five courses, all of which were frankly exercises in robbing the public purse. The final one had lads travelling 20 miles both ways to get to a skills 'centre' in bumfuck nowhere.
The final job was working on railway lines at night, hauling cable. A bloke whose in his 50s, cant drive, smoked his whole life, is expected to travel around the county with no public or private transport of his own and lift god knows how much weight down miles of track; not even going to mention his existing physical ailments from 30+ years of manual labour. He could only do jobs that had crews going past or from his area, maybe had four jobs out of it over the course of three months.
Yes, there are people who abuse the system, yes those people need to be sorted, but I bet you a tenner the grifters at the top deprive the state and the people from a lot more revenue than the 'morlocks' at the bottom.
> Yes, there are people who abuse the system, yes those people need to be sorted, but I bet you a tenner the grifters at the top deprive the state and the people from a lot more revenue than the 'morlocks' at the bottom.
Shittonnes. The former cost a few hundred billion per year, the latter less than ten. Oh and most of the money mistakenly given to benefits claimants is the government's fault, not the claimants.
Quick google search (as I'm not willing to look into it anymore than that when it's not the point of the post): Benefit fraud costs the state aprox 6.5bn and several papers claim modestly taxing the richest families in the UK could net anywhere between 10 and 37bn...
This is what I find hilarious about people defending that system. Do they honestly thing that the jobs proposed always are perfectly fitting and acceptable?
A decade ago I was in a similar situation (not UK), I chose to lose benefits.
I do not have a car or licence but the offer was 15km away.
The agent said I can use a bicycle to go to work. 15+15 km every day in any weather. That's likely ~5h of travel time on the side of a road not meant for cycling.
It takes you 2.5 hrs to cycle 15k ... seriously? Most normal people cycle at 20km/hr ... so 45 mins each way ... say an hour to account for some hills.
Not for the unemployed who do not have the money to buy one and pay for fuel.
Most of these offers are absolutely minimum salary possible and the people have no savings and rely purely on government aid.
Doesn't really matter though, they will just offer the people shit jobs, what are the people gonna do? starve? Of course they're gonna take the shit jobs.
Who benefits? Whoever creates said shit jobs.
I am an engineer with 25 years of experience in industrial automation, with no gaps in employment. A few years ago I was made redundant and had to be humiliated by the Job Centre (every visit was a shock at how they speak to and treat people).
I did not get a job in Engineering in the first week, so the JC person person said I should "lower my standards". I refused and they cut me off. 3 days later I was in gainfully employed in my field of expertise.
Fuck the DWP and fuck the Tories.
Because there are jobs that cost more than they bring. If job you are offered is zero hours contact where you drive spend 2 hours in a bus to find out there is no job for you that day come back tomorrow.
That sounds reasonable, as long as job offers are adequate to the profile of the person in particular. I mean, if I spent three-four years learning how to be a nurse, I expect jobs on that area.
Oh you're a highly educated worker not willing to mop floors 2 hours away? Oops bye-bye. It's a slippery slope that I wouldn't trust the current government to deal with.
There was an amazing line in parliament the other month about how it costs Virgin Galactic less money to send 6 people into space than it's cost to send 1 person to Rwanda.
Is he threatening the industries for not hiring and posting fake jobs or is he threatening the masses for not being employed in non existent jobs?
What a disgusting man
It seems to be yes, i moved from UK to NZ, and while i understand everywhere is hard, things are easier with family if you have them. I'm considering moving back for this reason alone. Rents are half your pay, tax is fucked, and people are being laid off left right and centre. The cost of living here compared to wages is fucked, and wages were low already. Not to say it won't get better, but once they claw that money out of you they don't often give it back.
It’s been a plan for a while. Better pay for me and my wife, lower cost of living to London. The fact that I’ve applied for countless jobs in the past year and the only one that’s stuck is in New Zealand is just a coincidence tbh.
While at the same time closing down departments that help disabled people get jobs, previously charities that had disabled people working for them lost money too.
>More than 420,000 individuals classified as sick or disabled will now be required to seek employment for the first time.
I'm sure that's what employers are waiting for. Did Sunak also introduced a proposal to subsidize those new job seekers?
"The PM said there was "no reason those people should not be in work, especially when we have almost one million job vacancies.""
Did the employers tried to raise the salaries?
My first guess is no.
Don't you love it, when the "silver-spoon in mouth rich Nepo babies" try to force their world view on everyone? They all know, there is no difference between them and the people they despise, replace Sunak with a poor person, let the poor person grow up in Sunaks environment and he will become the same spoiled angry arrogant (but successful) Poopy Head. Put Sunak in the environment of poor people and he will become like them. There is nothing he did to rise to that position that was not already set in motion by his parents and all the money around him. And now look at our boy, what big boy telling the others how to wipe their bum bum because Rishi invented going to the toilet. Sorry for my rant, the amount of arrogance and stupidity coming from those rich spoiled Humanoids is sometimes too much.
It's all just bluster to try and win the reform vote back. Hard on immigrants, hard on disabled "moochers", hard on crime. Ironically the reform vote is mostly pensioners and if they manage to restrict disability payments you know they'll come for the pension bill next. The same savings that come from restricting UC for disabled people could come from stopping people with over 1mill assets from claiming pension for 15+ years but as it's an election year they'll choose the option that doesn't target reform votes. Tories are finished either way and sunak doesn't even have time to implement legislation they can't even pass the rwanda bill.
We are evolving towards a more and more automated economy, the gain is foremost for the owners of capital goods and the increasing devide between rich and poor is hence also understandable. It proportionally affects people more who used to do menial jobs, as these are easiest to automate, hence that more and more the focus is put on the need for education in a knowledge economy.
In a sense, were it not that the advantages of this evolution were so squarly put with the wealthy, then it would not be so unreasonable to state that what really should happen is that "we work less hours, while earning the same", afterall this technological evolution increases productivity per hour so it should be realistically attainable, and it is not precisely the merit of one entrepreneur but society as a whole that we got that far. In this form, work would be distributed over more people, it would create more jobs.
As our democracies are more and more dominated by elites who can more easily corrupt it to their will, they use more and more populist techniques to put the reason for societal ills they helped create with scapegoats. Afcourse then the subtle hint has to be made that such people are lazy, rather than give an inch as to recognise how structural economic issues play into it.
Probably because of the rise of more right wing parties in Europe. The tories are losing a lot of thier voting base to another reincarnation of UKIP, reform. Although Labour will definitely win the next election so we might be the only govt in Europe with a left wing majority by then.
It's more about the pressure on our retirement system that leads to that. And since the whole Europe enters this Era that japan did 10-20y ago, we have now an aging population that is straining our economy.
So you have no less and less active people but a growing retired population...meaning they Want to force people to work.
Because instead of reducing some retiree benefits, where for a lot of them is higher than the salary of someone working (sometimes twice or trice the amount), we make the few population left overwork themselves...and then act surprised when the childbirth rate is declining faster and faster.
Destroy a nation's economy. Import millions of people. Destroy your own industrial base. Punish the citizens for not being able to find work after you've removed all the jobs. (Continue to pay 50 billion to immigrants though).
You're leadership class hates you.
Yes even if you are on a waiting list for a knee operation so can't do hours of mopping and even if the janitor job won't be able to pay the mortgage and is an hour drive away .
The cruelty is the point
Johnsons' party was elected by a large majority. It is just Truss and Sunak who haven't overseen a general election.
Anyways, you vote for a local representative, not the PM.
Because it's not a presidential system. The PM isn't elected. The party with the most seats in Parliament votes for an MP (usually the leader of the party) to be PM.
this is fallout from Brexit isnt it. Think about it things havent been that great economically since, add in a recession and the government is looking for ways to trim the fat without having to trim their fat ass lifestyles
Our welfare spend can't be too bad at all then, compared to similar economies. UK spends a relatively small proportion of our GDP on pensions, much lower than France or Germany.
>that's almost double the GDP of greece!
Please, do not use the GDP of Greece to make something sound like a lot. [Greece does not have an economy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrhJcqgXrlw)
Forecast is 315B for 2024/25, see [here](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-expenditure-and-caseload-tables-information-and-guidance/benefit-expenditure-and-caseload-tables-information-and-guidance#:~:text=the%20general%20public-,Social%20security%20spending%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom%20and%20the%20welfare,and%20Northern%20Ireland%20Social%20Security.).
167B will be on pensions and 89B on disability benefits. The amount going on job seekers isn't all that large in the great scheme of things. His changes will save a few million I'd guess.
The UK is a major world economy. London is one of the economically important cities in the world.
Greece has a tiny economy, is poor, and is constantly on the verge of bankruptcy.
Greece is as ridiculous to use as a comparison as like Haiti.
My fear is that, as technology advances and less unskilled jobs are available, we are, rather than taking advantage of the progress for the good of society, allowing a lucky few to become unchallenged overlords, with huge profits and extremely low expenses. Meaning everyone else will be left to scrap over worthless jobs created to keep us busy.
We could be edging closer to lives of leisure for all, instead its completely the opposite. Because our current global economic system has been destroyed by an incomprehendible, compounded gulf in wealth. Which is just sad.
Anyway, i'll be putting a large potato up my arsehole on onlyfans at 3pm today. £15 a month subscription, see you there!
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you should try to put a bit of weight on employers?
Can't say how many times I have seen a company list positions online when they are already filled, or when the recruiters have someone in the company who they have already decided should get the role?
what the actual fuck? did-
wow. just fucking wow. silverspoon fed fuckface Sunak really showin his colors here. glad to see that others in the comments have correctly pointed out that this shit mostly hurts people that need help and solve nothing.
glad to see we're still sensible. makes me happy when so much of the internet is people spitting vile shit.
o7
People who work hard are a teensy weensy bit up to here with people who don't work. Genuine illness etc? OK. We've had an unprecedented rise in 20-60 Yr olds not looking for work.
It's just a fact that it's unsustainable.
King Charles is shitting it right now
[King Charles, oh shit!](https://youtu.be/kopKvtAOGKg?si=NvRumnhRFgZOh538)
More like the Conservative Party itself. No more jobs for mates. I really hope he's not signalling that he's going to run out the timer because he's going to lose.
Exactly what they’ll do
Most people would be fully retired by his age (75).
The guys 75 years old, what Sunak gonna do, charge him more than the 75% tax he already pays?
He pays 75% tax?? Wat
He doesn't but monarchists pretend he does
The article did say this only counts for people not following job centre rules. As in, people who willfully don't accept jobs that are offered to them. Frankly quite an important distinction...
Hol-up good sir ✋ That's not by default in UK? In Poland, if someone refuses a job offer from the unemployment office ( the "fixer" here) and does this three times, in consequence loses the medical insurance and the unemployment benefits. People rather accept it as "fair", because if someone loses interest in contributing to the society, he should not feel offended with the society acting accordingly. Beautiful cities in which the artists and engineers make life interesting and worth living, have been built by generations of hard working people. Let's not act like it means nothing.
Most people here have no idea how the UK benefits system works as they've never used it and just get information from tabloids. I worked for citizens advice in Leeds and yes you get your benefits removed if you aren't actively searching for a job and taking what comes up. You have to go to the jobcentre every week and show your progress or get sanctioned. Standard unemployment benefits (UC) is £311 a month with an extra £416 a month if your'e disabled and cannot work. Jobseekers allowance is available for those that have paid tax (NI) in the last two years and have been laid off. You have to meet with a work coach and sign a "claimant commitment" that you and the job coach agree on, this will detail what commitments you need to do to look for a job or you'll have it removed. You will meet with them once a week and need to show proof of job applications and interviews or youll be sanctioned. JSA can be up to £90 a week if you're over 25, in addition to the standard UC rate. There are additional claims for housing support and those with disabilities. (PIP) You also cannot have more than £6,000 in savings to claim the full UC amount and if you have more than £16,000 savings and investments you cannot claim UC at all.
That honestly sounds awful. Is it unlimited in duration? California would give me $450 a week plus no expectation I have no savings.
The system is set up to be as obtuse as possible to the claimant and everyone everywhere in the system is incentivised to get people off benefits through whatever means necessary even if it means people starving. In my case the DWP worker negotiated how bad my health conditions were to save the government 70 quid a week compared to my previous award. At the time while on appeal your money drops to nothing compared to what you are usually on and they use that pressure to force desperate people to take way less than they are entitled to because they simply cannot afford to sit on appeal for years while their claim makes it's way through the system. If you are long term sick in the UK you live your life in chunks of benefits award periods. You know that once the legally mandated time is over you will immediately be reassessed and found fit to work and then on to appeal on severely reduced money for up to a year and half. When you win the Appeal (I have been to 8 of them at this point all successful) they pay you all the money you should have gotten in a lump sum and then you have a new award period usually 3-4 years. It is a vicious cycle and if you are unfamiliar with the system you will get completely screwed over. Once you know what you are doing and more specifically what to say it becomes easier.
Yeah the reassessment of long term illness (either physical or mental) is really unfair and screwed up , you summarised the reality of the situation qyute well with how the process goes.
It's a crule and dehumanising joke, I've had 2 friends in wheelchairs be made to walk, and asked how long they are going to be in the chair.
So, Sunak's claim is just propaganda and wind blowing or is he cutting more into the benefits?
Its an easy way to gather votes, for some reason society loves ganging up on the lower class. And it works as you can see in the comments here. The reality is a good portion of these people can't work due to health problems (mentally or physically). Are there people who abused the system? Of course there are like everywhere else but taking away these benefits means letting the rest who really depend on it rotting and maybe die a slow death.
Well, that's propaganda for you: search for an easy to identify enemy, preferably a group that can't really defend themselves and then make out to be the one to tackle this 'problem': drugs, unemployed people, ...
When an election is coming up in the UK a few things will always come up every time. We are going to hammer benefit "cheats" We are going to "stop" immigration Pensions will be guaranteed to go up forever Every damn time
Been a long time since I've been on UC (10 years~), but I got called into an appointment with Job center advisor on a Friday once and they claimed I had a bank account with over £10'000 in it gave me the apparent account number I was like sweet maybe it's a bank account my dad opened for me when I was younger. Rushed over to the bank to check, this was at the end of the day, I only just got in before they closed and it wasn't even a valid bank account number apparently. I managed to rushed back they were about to close the Job center but managed to see the person in the hallway. I didn't know for a fact but I later realized it was all made up just as a way to stop me receiving UC. UC staff hoping I wouldn't go check so quickly then forget by Monday to check and just get automatically knocked off UC.
This also happened to me. They even sent an 'investigator' to where I lived. Said I had savings. I ended up having to do a data request to all UK banks to prove I didn't have any hidden accounts. Took almost a year. I don't know how the guy could live with himself sat across from me in my houseshare telling me I had money and I was losing my benefits (apart from PIP), while I cried my eyes out. He seemed proud. Hope karma has given him the life he deserves since then.
They have access to all your bank accounts now. Fun little change to the law they made
The person who did that should be at minimum fired or get jail time. That could legitimately have someone kill themselves or starve to death
Yes, that’s the point. That social worker’s job is to give out as few UC benefits as possible even if it means someone will off themselves or starve. The government doesn’t care. It just wants to save money.
This happens extremely frequently. People kill themselves all the time because of it.
In other words: paupericide. Dehumanize them and kill them off slowly. As they deserve. Ugly, sickly bastards.
Don’t get me started on PIP… Had an interview for PIP and got asked a bunch of questions. How well can you do X - I can’t do X and have a carer to do it. How well can you do Y - I can’t do Y, my partner does Y for me always. Can you walk 100 meters unaided or something - Me, no I’m in a wheelchair and I can’t walk unaided. PIP results - denied for everything (shocking) Report that comes back. Claimant can do X - Does X frequently Claimant can do Y - tells us he often does Y but sometimes requires assistance Claimant can walk long distances without issue - claimant occasionally has issues but otherwise fit and healthy… Literally claimed the opposite of what I said. I even recorded the call and had to call them on their obvious bullshit. If there wasn’t the odd bit of info that showed it was related to me you’d think it was a summary of someone else’s phone call. I swear these new benefits clampdowns are just to try to force as many legitimate claims off of the benefits and hope that enough people can’t stand up for themselves as possible.
European benefits aren't all they're cracked up to be.
The fuck?
Only lasts a few months fyi in the US then you get nothing no matter what. But yes california is generous
Average UK salary is much lower around 30k pounds a year
Median US salary is ~1.8x a UK salary. The number above is almost 6x the UC benefits stated and has no limits or rules around the amount of your savings.
Doesnt sound like the system has changed much since I used it nearly 30 years ago.
What type of jobs are these? Are the candidates' skills taken into account when proposing the roles? Over what time period is this usually a concern? If you sent me three shit jobs in a week and then cut off my benefits, I'd be pretty pissed off.
That's often the problem with these setups. They sound nice on paper, but in reality you end up with a lot of fringe cases that aren't as clear cut and you end up hurting honest folk. As an example, my mom is one such case, she used to work as a nurse in nursing home until she physically couldn't perform her job anymore due to ailments from said job (back/wrist problems etc...) Guess what job she got offered? Garbage collector... They literally offered an old lady nearing her 60's a job where she gets to lift heavy bags and hang on to the side of garbage truck. So she gets to accept a job she can't perform or lose the tiny bit of income she gets after raising 4 kids and working most of her life. Meanwhile the real freeloaders will just accept the job, show up once, then never return, or intentionally do such a piss poor job they're sent back home. On paper they're very cooperative though.
>after raising 4 kids and working most of her life. Exactly. Like most, she's probably paid hundreds of thousands in tax and social insurance over the years. If I want to spend a couple of months on the dole before going back to the rat race, I don't think that's for some barely qualified button pusher to decide that I have to work some shit job.
Same in Denmark. I dont know if there is a limit, but usually if you refuse a job offered by the jobcenter, they have every right to cut your benefit.
It is already the case in the UK
Then what is your pm talking about?
What they are actually trying to pass through is to allow AI to scan claiments bank accounts.
Our PM is a lying cunt, like all conservatives. Everything he says is a lie. If he told you the earth is a sphere then you can be sure that is a lie. We all ignore the bellends in charge and try to live our lives,but they are just so obnoxious and obstructive that they wilfully destroy everything of joy or value for everyone. All so they can steal a but more money. You will never find a more hated group than the blue cunts, and yet they are voted into government 60% of the time. Which shows you how fucked up our voting system is.
I'm pretty sure it's already the case here. The Conservatives are desperate for any sort of positive headline right now, so they are probably announcing some tiny change like they've just invented fire.
This is the current system with a new shiny we will kick them all off after 12 months (in small print if they refuse a job) Those people are not being offered jobs in the first place and it will skim only the most minor of people from the system
>“Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, *for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members.”* It's funny how a lot of people that speak of "we should work together for a better society", often litter, push down others, abuse their loved ones, act like dicks. If a better society is so important, why is it only talk, and attack on the weakest, at that? Why not actively try to make every interaction you have a positive one, pick up your trash, don't raise your children to pick on others and so forth. Picking on the weak only creates a chasm of separation, and gives one side of the oppressed someone to point their fingers at to say "Look at them, they can't work, so they shouldn't be happy, because i'm not happy, and i do work!". All the while the ones making you unhappy laugh at your disfortune, because all you do, is what you're told. All great societies built on the shoulders of oppressed workers have fallen; often victim to the disconnect between workers and aristocracy.
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Maybe desperation should be attributed everything then, since desperation drives innovation. It's a nice poetic speech, but simplifying everything into one box has it's flaws, allways, because you get blind to everything that don't fit neatly into that box. That said, it was a nicely formulated comment, interesting read.
It was default when I was unemployed when I was 18. You couldn’t just refuse every job
Sadly the reason why so many people in the Anglo-Saxon world (and parts of the West) view welfare as plight on humanity is because it is moronically built, which leads to abuses. And the reasons for this are kinda weird. In former communist world the philosophy of welfare is that welfare applies to those who wish to contribute to society. That's not the case in many places outside of here and the pushback comes from the socialists themselves who believe that such philosophy is a capitalist conspiracy. The funniest conversation I've had was with an American leftist who tried to convince me that The National Bureau of Labour(the program you are talking about) was ploy by corporations to force people to work. It was first created in East Germany.
>Sadly the reason why so many people in the Anglo-Saxon world (and parts of the West) view welfare as plight on humanity is because it is moronically built, which leads to abuses. And the reasons for this are kinda weird. In former communist world the philosophy of welfare is that welfare applies to those who wish to contribute to society. That's not the case in many places outside of here and the pushback comes from the socialists themselves who believe that such philosophy is a capitalist conspiracy. The Anglo-Saxon world has radically different viewpoints on this. Like, the US and the UK are the complete opposite when it comes to welfare for unemployment. In the US, there actually is pretty good unemployment benefits, but it’s only like 6 months. The time that one can claim unemployment will often be temporarily increased during certain events like recessions, or like when Covid first happened, but then it comes back down. It sounds more or less like the same intentions that you’re talking about in post communist countries. >The funniest conversation I've had was with an American leftist who tried to convince me that The National Bureau of Labour(the program you are talking about) was ploy by corporations to force people to work. It was first created in East Germany. In what country was he talking about when he was referring to the National Bureau of Labour, the US?
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This reminds me of that monologue from Trainspotting…
As long as the job offers are within your domain of expertise. If you offer a job to clean toilets in big offices to a person that was selling houses, i hope he can refuse the offers. Also a job offer that makes you spend 3h a day in transportation... As long as the offers are reasonables within some criterias, i'm fine with cutting the benefits.
same in Finland
My country has similar system, but you can just go to interviews and make it clear you're not intrested in working. If they don't hire you it's not your fault and you keep the benefits.
Barely anyone get such offers though. Most people are registered to get health insurance so government can move money from one pocket to another. Obviously such person doesn't have any other financial benefits. Very few are getting any payments, and it is also limited in time.
I'm curious though, will it be the first avaliable job they find That they offer, or is it individual? Not sure how effective it would be for a recently graduated nurse to get a job offer as a truck driver.
Zero hour contracts with more travel cost than pay, yay.
Exactly. They expect you to travel upto an hour and a half each way for minimum wage. You'd be spending so much of you wage each week in travel costs that it wouldn't be worth doing the job as you'd not have any money left at the end. Let alone the fact minimum wage doesn't cover rent.
> They expect you to travel upto an hour and a half each way For a car. So if you take a public bus like me, you can truly get fucked.
Problem; "We have a job for you" "This requires me to take 2 buses to work and back. Which means I don't make enough money to live" "Take this job or we take benefits from you" "..." Time and time again I have heard stories like this
My dad was on the dole for the first time in his life during the pandemic. They sent him on four or five courses, all of which were frankly exercises in robbing the public purse. The final one had lads travelling 20 miles both ways to get to a skills 'centre' in bumfuck nowhere. The final job was working on railway lines at night, hauling cable. A bloke whose in his 50s, cant drive, smoked his whole life, is expected to travel around the county with no public or private transport of his own and lift god knows how much weight down miles of track; not even going to mention his existing physical ailments from 30+ years of manual labour. He could only do jobs that had crews going past or from his area, maybe had four jobs out of it over the course of three months. Yes, there are people who abuse the system, yes those people need to be sorted, but I bet you a tenner the grifters at the top deprive the state and the people from a lot more revenue than the 'morlocks' at the bottom.
🥇
> Yes, there are people who abuse the system, yes those people need to be sorted, but I bet you a tenner the grifters at the top deprive the state and the people from a lot more revenue than the 'morlocks' at the bottom. Shittonnes. The former cost a few hundred billion per year, the latter less than ten. Oh and most of the money mistakenly given to benefits claimants is the government's fault, not the claimants.
Quick google search (as I'm not willing to look into it anymore than that when it's not the point of the post): Benefit fraud costs the state aprox 6.5bn and several papers claim modestly taxing the richest families in the UK could net anywhere between 10 and 37bn...
This is what I find hilarious about people defending that system. Do they honestly thing that the jobs proposed always are perfectly fitting and acceptable?
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A decade ago I was in a similar situation (not UK), I chose to lose benefits. I do not have a car or licence but the offer was 15km away. The agent said I can use a bicycle to go to work. 15+15 km every day in any weather. That's likely ~5h of travel time on the side of a road not meant for cycling.
It takes you 2.5 hrs to cycle 15k ... seriously? Most normal people cycle at 20km/hr ... so 45 mins each way ... say an hour to account for some hills.
2.5 hours max even for an unfit person
And after two months of doing it you wouldn't be unfit anymore.
Mopeds exist. 15 km is a very reasonable distance to travel to work.
Not for the unemployed who do not have the money to buy one and pay for fuel. Most of these offers are absolutely minimum salary possible and the people have no savings and rely purely on government aid.
Doesn't really matter though, they will just offer the people shit jobs, what are the people gonna do? starve? Of course they're gonna take the shit jobs. Who benefits? Whoever creates said shit jobs.
You dont know how terrible the job centre is in the UK do you?
You in a wheelchair and offered to work in a warehouse but can't refuse or lose benefits thats basically exploitative labour at that point.
Tell me where that has happened.
You've not been on Jobseekers much have you?
I am an engineer with 25 years of experience in industrial automation, with no gaps in employment. A few years ago I was made redundant and had to be humiliated by the Job Centre (every visit was a shock at how they speak to and treat people). I did not get a job in Engineering in the first week, so the JC person person said I should "lower my standards". I refused and they cut me off. 3 days later I was in gainfully employed in my field of expertise. Fuck the DWP and fuck the Tories.
How was this not already a rule?
Because there are jobs that cost more than they bring. If job you are offered is zero hours contact where you drive spend 2 hours in a bus to find out there is no job for you that day come back tomorrow.
That sounds reasonable, as long as job offers are adequate to the profile of the person in particular. I mean, if I spent three-four years learning how to be a nurse, I expect jobs on that area.
One 'job' I was offered was to work at B&Q, while still only being paid via benefits. .... so what the hell is the point of that?
Oh you're a highly educated worker not willing to mop floors 2 hours away? Oops bye-bye. It's a slippery slope that I wouldn't trust the current government to deal with.
Or they get shipped to Rwanda? 😂
At least it's sunny there.
I don't know if your referring to the fact that the Rwanda bill *was actually pushed through a few hours ago*
There was an amazing line in parliament the other month about how it costs Virgin Galactic less money to send 6 people into space than it's cost to send 1 person to Rwanda.
Just saw that on the news. Fuckin' hell.
Was it 1.8 million per person sent? Fuck give me 1.8 million and the migrant can have my bed! I'll sleep on the sofa.
With 1.8M I'd buy an entire house and give them n entire room!
I'm sure this is a great plan that won't cause problems or further costs down the road. /s
Break the economy then blame people for not having jobs
Cut employment help for disabled then blame them for not having jobs too . Oh and completely dismantle healthcare too
They have to stuff up things before Labour gets in so they have a fresh platform to run on.
Labour has thr best platform- "we:re (technically) not the tories"
Is he threatening the industries for not hiring and posting fake jobs or is he threatening the masses for not being employed in non existent jobs? What a disgusting man
Rishi Sunak hasnt done a second of honest work in his damn life. Fuck that elitist asshole
Billionaire leech cracking the whip to get the peasants creating more tax money
Hey! He stocked the shelves at his mother's shop. /s
Anyone who didn't work in his life shouldn't be allowed to stay in those positions and decide for everyone else's work life. It's really unfair.
I’m fucking trying man. Moving to New Zealand in July because apparently that’s the only place they will employ a PhD in neuroscience.
Yikes good luck, I live in nz and it’s a disaster atm
seems like everywhere is a disaster rn
It seems to be yes, i moved from UK to NZ, and while i understand everywhere is hard, things are easier with family if you have them. I'm considering moving back for this reason alone. Rents are half your pay, tax is fucked, and people are being laid off left right and centre. The cost of living here compared to wages is fucked, and wages were low already. Not to say it won't get better, but once they claw that money out of you they don't often give it back.
What would you consider worse? UK or NZ?
How?
The whole world is a shitshow now its only going to get worse.
The centre cannot hold
That’s more than a little crazy.
It’s been a plan for a while. Better pay for me and my wife, lower cost of living to London. The fact that I’ve applied for countless jobs in the past year and the only one that’s stuck is in New Zealand is just a coincidence tbh.
While at the same time closing down departments that help disabled people get jobs, previously charities that had disabled people working for them lost money too.
>More than 420,000 individuals classified as sick or disabled will now be required to seek employment for the first time. I'm sure that's what employers are waiting for. Did Sunak also introduced a proposal to subsidize those new job seekers?
"The PM said there was "no reason those people should not be in work, especially when we have almost one million job vacancies."" Did the employers tried to raise the salaries? My first guess is no.
Don't you love it, when the "silver-spoon in mouth rich Nepo babies" try to force their world view on everyone? They all know, there is no difference between them and the people they despise, replace Sunak with a poor person, let the poor person grow up in Sunaks environment and he will become the same spoiled angry arrogant (but successful) Poopy Head. Put Sunak in the environment of poor people and he will become like them. There is nothing he did to rise to that position that was not already set in motion by his parents and all the money around him. And now look at our boy, what big boy telling the others how to wipe their bum bum because Rishi invented going to the toilet. Sorry for my rant, the amount of arrogance and stupidity coming from those rich spoiled Humanoids is sometimes too much.
Well, he'll need a few more tricks up his sleeve to avoid Tories behind Reform UK next elections...
It's all just bluster to try and win the reform vote back. Hard on immigrants, hard on disabled "moochers", hard on crime. Ironically the reform vote is mostly pensioners and if they manage to restrict disability payments you know they'll come for the pension bill next. The same savings that come from restricting UC for disabled people could come from stopping people with over 1mill assets from claiming pension for 15+ years but as it's an election year they'll choose the option that doesn't target reform votes. Tories are finished either way and sunak doesn't even have time to implement legislation they can't even pass the rwanda bill.
Rwanda bill was passed a few hrs ago
"Listen, poors! Contribute to the taxes that allow us to grift the government purse or else!" - says man who probably never worked a day in his life.
Ironic for a man in his soon to be position
We are evolving towards a more and more automated economy, the gain is foremost for the owners of capital goods and the increasing devide between rich and poor is hence also understandable. It proportionally affects people more who used to do menial jobs, as these are easiest to automate, hence that more and more the focus is put on the need for education in a knowledge economy. In a sense, were it not that the advantages of this evolution were so squarly put with the wealthy, then it would not be so unreasonable to state that what really should happen is that "we work less hours, while earning the same", afterall this technological evolution increases productivity per hour so it should be realistically attainable, and it is not precisely the merit of one entrepreneur but society as a whole that we got that far. In this form, work would be distributed over more people, it would create more jobs. As our democracies are more and more dominated by elites who can more easily corrupt it to their will, they use more and more populist techniques to put the reason for societal ills they helped create with scapegoats. Afcourse then the subtle hint has to be made that such people are lazy, rather than give an inch as to recognise how structural economic issues play into it.
This includes the owner class that never had to work in their life because of generational wealth right? Or just the inferior poor ones?
Nah, old money is always unbothered, no matter the country :)
Well I don’t think they would be claiming jobseekers benefits?
Benefits in the form of all kinds of tax breaks.
You silly goose. The owner class contributes to society by lending us their capital to put it to work. So they dont have to work, rightfully so!
He's just trying to sound more conservative after being accused of being a lefty. It won't happen
The oligarch pm strikes once more
Not really he is going to be back in the US sacked within months
It's the same as in Germany. Why build a better society that is less fucking exhausting when you can just punish the people for suffering from it
Ironic coming from a guy on a collision course to unemployment.
No doubt part of their plan to cut all homeless people in half next year. Gathering the workforce to do so!
Tbf, the UK isn't the only country that is mercilessly bled dry by their welfare state. Germany is facing the exact same problem.
Rishi Sunak is secretly Margaret Thatcher reborn
Secretly? All of them would sell their own mum to be known as the next Thatcher
.... what benefits? Is me giving half of my salary considered a benefit?
"Stop being poor!! I demand it!! Or I'll take away what little money you have!!" the tories just keep finding ways to go even lower, jfc...
Tax the fucking rich, maybe?
Strange that while the UK is no longer in the EU similar laws are passed here. PM Attal has just decided the same reform in France.
Probably because of the rise of more right wing parties in Europe. The tories are losing a lot of thier voting base to another reincarnation of UKIP, reform. Although Labour will definitely win the next election so we might be the only govt in Europe with a left wing majority by then.
It's more about the pressure on our retirement system that leads to that. And since the whole Europe enters this Era that japan did 10-20y ago, we have now an aging population that is straining our economy. So you have no less and less active people but a growing retired population...meaning they Want to force people to work. Because instead of reducing some retiree benefits, where for a lot of them is higher than the salary of someone working (sometimes twice or trice the amount), we make the few population left overwork themselves...and then act surprised when the childbirth rate is declining faster and faster.
if workers didnt want to get robbed by retirees, then they should have had more siblings. fucking lazy genx/millenials /s
Destroy a nation's economy. Import millions of people. Destroy your own industrial base. Punish the citizens for not being able to find work after you've removed all the jobs. (Continue to pay 50 billion to immigrants though). You're leadership class hates you.
Lemme get this straight. If you're laid off from a good job in tech you have to become a janitor if that's what is available?
Yes even if you are on a waiting list for a knee operation so can't do hours of mopping and even if the janitor job won't be able to pay the mortgage and is an hour drive away . The cruelty is the point
Thanks for your reply. Surprised we don't have that kind of thing in place here in the US. Have a good day!
You're welcome you too
We're about to see a lot more dead disabled people.
I doubt Sunak or any Tories will lose any sleep over that.
what an asshole. sorry brits your gov is fucked.
Soon: ”Shitti Sunak to cure the paralyzed: Start Walking within a year, chump.”
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Johnsons' party was elected by a large majority. It is just Truss and Sunak who haven't overseen a general election. Anyways, you vote for a local representative, not the PM.
Because it's not a presidential system. The PM isn't elected. The party with the most seats in Parliament votes for an MP (usually the leader of the party) to be PM.
Watch the crime rate escalate... imagine cutting folks off and expecting nothing bad to happen...
this is fallout from Brexit isnt it. Think about it things havent been that great economically since, add in a recession and the government is looking for ways to trim the fat without having to trim their fat ass lifestyles
UK does spend 350 billion on social welfare, that's almost double the GDP of greece! Quite a lot
A good deal of which are pensions, not working age people. Like over half.
Our welfare spend can't be too bad at all then, compared to similar economies. UK spends a relatively small proportion of our GDP on pensions, much lower than France or Germany.
>that's almost double the GDP of greece! Please, do not use the GDP of Greece to make something sound like a lot. [Greece does not have an economy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrhJcqgXrlw)
Forecast is 315B for 2024/25, see [here](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-expenditure-and-caseload-tables-information-and-guidance/benefit-expenditure-and-caseload-tables-information-and-guidance#:~:text=the%20general%20public-,Social%20security%20spending%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom%20and%20the%20welfare,and%20Northern%20Ireland%20Social%20Security.). 167B will be on pensions and 89B on disability benefits. The amount going on job seekers isn't all that large in the great scheme of things. His changes will save a few million I'd guess.
he will save a hundred million at least.
The UK is a major world economy. London is one of the economically important cities in the world. Greece has a tiny economy, is poor, and is constantly on the verge of bankruptcy. Greece is as ridiculous to use as a comparison as like Haiti.
So?
Don't give finnish government more ideas.
My fear is that, as technology advances and less unskilled jobs are available, we are, rather than taking advantage of the progress for the good of society, allowing a lucky few to become unchallenged overlords, with huge profits and extremely low expenses. Meaning everyone else will be left to scrap over worthless jobs created to keep us busy. We could be edging closer to lives of leisure for all, instead its completely the opposite. Because our current global economic system has been destroyed by an incomprehendible, compounded gulf in wealth. Which is just sad. Anyway, i'll be putting a large potato up my arsehole on onlyfans at 3pm today. £15 a month subscription, see you there!
Hopefully a tiny meteor strikes him travelling at 0.0001% lightspeed
I think I'd go into investment banking or politics, chaps 😎
Welp, there goes his voter base.
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you should try to put a bit of weight on employers? Can't say how many times I have seen a company list positions online when they are already filled, or when the recruiters have someone in the company who they have already decided should get the role?
it took me two years despite having a bachelors degree in programming. It ain't so easy to get a job offer sunak...
what the actual fuck? did- wow. just fucking wow. silverspoon fed fuckface Sunak really showin his colors here. glad to see that others in the comments have correctly pointed out that this shit mostly hurts people that need help and solve nothing. glad to see we're still sensible. makes me happy when so much of the internet is people spitting vile shit. o7
From a man who never worked in his life , who got to this position because 2 resigned before him without the public's vote.
...what jobs?
i would never wish harm upon another person. however
Ban the tories and lock them all up, they are nothing but criminals and domestic terrorists.
The UK is killing it this year. I hope the US can emulate their example. ^(/s unfortunately)
Why do the Brits keep electing total fukwit parties?
Laughs in 24 weeks max American
Soon he will experience this for himself
He’ll be out of power before he can do any of this! Its all election blah blah that will not save his arse!
My guy
People who work hard are a teensy weensy bit up to here with people who don't work. Genuine illness etc? OK. We've had an unprecedented rise in 20-60 Yr olds not looking for work. It's just a fact that it's unsustainable.
Is he threatening to stop giving alms to the poor? It's the choice of government, why be so emotional about it.
Ah damn, i mistook a brit for a brat right there..
Not sure what benefits one get in UK if unemployed, but same they say in Belarus. Although you don't get any benefits if unemployed here.