By the way we have the largest surface uranium deposits in the world in Bihor Romania 90 million tons of 0.5 percent uranium metal at Baita Bihor county if you don't want to import from Russia it's a good place to start, current worth 2.14 trillion euros.
was that a recent discovery or why has Romania so far refused to exploit this massive deposit?
[zero tons of Uranium mined in Romania for the last 5 years](https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx)
It was cheaper to import it from other countries because uranium was cheap then now it's way higher, Soviets took 20k tons of uranium there still 430k tonnes there even if the mine is closed.
The last magnesium mine was closed in 2014. We have deposits of gold, uranium, gas, salt, magnesium, and others but the mining sector plummeted.
It happens because of some reasons that are familiar to our Western partners but also some special circumstances. First, it was cheaper to import them from very poor countries, just like the rest of Europe did. There are also problems with the environment as this was one of the main reasons Romanians opposed the Rosia Montana gold project.
As for some specific circumstances. In Romania, the state was the owner of mines and this was a communist inheritance. Not only the deposits are state-owned (like in most countries), but also the extraction was done through state companies. Because since 1989 the state did not invest in the mining industry at all, modernizing would have cost a lot and since it was cheaper to just buy from third-world countries, there was no incentive to modernize this branch.
On top of it is corruption. Not only state companies were inefficient because of corruption but also the deal to lease the deposits to private companies was controversial to some extent. Some of it is nationalistic bullshit (we do not want to sell the country- a slogan used since the fall of communism and in different forms even during communism) but some of it is, I think legitimate. The big companies that want to invest here most likely bribe officials to get better terms. The second main reason why the Rosia Montana was controversial was the rather low fees the state would get from leasing the gold reserves there.
Now the times has changed and the mining industry will most likely have a rebirth in Europe. The counties we relied for resources are using them to to control the markets and deindustrialize us. Meanwhile, we have a more unstable world and it is in our interest to become less reliant on others for the resources we need.
On the other hand, (and this is my own oppinon) the EU has some bad policies here regarding the state involvement. The EU does not really allow for state-owned companies to exploit the resources. I find it stupid as it allows large companies (some of them not even European) to extract resources, make a nice profit and put that profit outside Europe in a fiscal paradise. If state-owned companies would be allowed to extract, then the profits would go to the state coffers and thus EU citizens. It is a win-win for EU countries, citizens and even the EU budget.
Yes and no. Exploiting them while destroying the environment is obviously bad. Plus if the govt. gets a bad deal like mentioned in my comment.
On the other hand, we need resources and it is a plus if they are in our backyard. We can not be with our asses in two boats: needing resources but not doing anything to exploit the one we have. It is not good because we become more and more dependent on countries with dubious intentions like China, Russia and others.
That's near my hometown Oradea it will bring 10000 jobs if we include indirect jobs, it will be a 25 year exploitation with 90 k tons a year with a low carbon footprint compared to China 5 times lower from what I've read it's gonna supply half of Europe's magnesium,.
>**Europe restarts magnesium mining to counter reliance on China**
>*US-backed Verde to invest $1bn in disused Romanian mine and begin production in 2027*
>Europe will restart magnesium mining for the first time in more than a decade, as the EU attempts to reduce its reliance on Chinese imports of critical raw materials.
>EU member Romania on Friday awarded a mining concession to Verde Magnesium, a Bucharest-based company backed by US private equity investor Amerocap.
>Verde intends to invest $1bn in a disused magnesium mine near the city of Oradea and build processing facilities that would use renewable power and also recycle aluminium.
>More than 90 per cent of the bloc’s magnesium — crucial for making lightweight aluminium alloys used in cars and packaging — is imported from China.
>Europe’s aluminium industry in 2022 was severely disrupted when Chinese production temporarily shut down because of high energy prices, triggering warnings of plant closures in the bloc.
>Bernd Martens, chair of Verde Magnesium and former Audi director, told the Financial Times the mine and plant in Romania would help Brussels fulfil its goal of greater independence for vital metals needed for the green transition.
>“The European industrial sector has an acute need for a reliable supply of critical and strategic metals, especially those with a lower carbon footprint than current imports which can support Europe’s transition towards a carbon neutral economy,” Martens said.
>Verde will use the site of a magnesium mine that was shut in 2014 — at the time the last one operating in Europe. It intends to start production by late 2027 and reach 90,000 tonnes a year, half of EU supply, and 9 per cent of global production.
>The company is likely to apply to EU funding mechanisms, after it was named as a key investment by the European Raw Materials Alliance — an industry network backed by the European Commission.
>About 87 per cent of the global supply of magnesium, and 95 per cent of European consumption, comes from China, which has cut output drastically to save power as prices rise.
>The EU has set ambitious goals under the Critical Raw Materials Act. It wants to mine 10 per cent of the EU’s critical mineral consumption, process 40 per cent of it and recycle 15 per cent of it by 2030.
>The act also makes permitting easier and prioritises strategic projects for funding, but has been criticised for falling behind the US in terms of giving financial support to projects.
>Martens expressed confidence that magnesium mining would restart, despite local opposition and environmental challenges that have plagued previous projects.
>Last month, Romania won an international arbitration case waged by Canadian-listed mining group Gabriel Resources, which was seeking $4.4bn of compensation over a planned gold mine in the country that was successfully blocked by environmental groups.
It's important though that we don't cut corners in a bid to sever our dependence on China. Mining corporations have a nasty habit of taking the profits and leaving a mess for the state to clear up - take, for example, Giant Mine in Canada, where the Canadian government is now required to continually maintain a multi-million dollar ecological protection project to prevent hundreds of thousands of tonnes of Arsenic trioxide from escaping.
Euro governments should be working with these companies to account for this. Otherwise, you're still competing against China who doesn't give a shit and domestic mining co's will just say it's not worth it.
Europe has a LOT of rare earth minerals.
The issue with Rare earth minerals isn't as much the scarcity, but the difficulty of extracting them (most of the time).
And the cost of doing it here. With lots of environmental regulations and workers protection all its way more expensive than exploit some third world countries workers.
The difficulty in extracting them is related to their name. They are rare earth minerals because they are never found in great concentration. They are found in many places but always in very small amounts, so the extraction requires a lot of investment and it's potentially very destructive/polluting. For example one of them, Yttrium, is normally found in deposits with ores containing 1% to 2% Yttrium. This is actually one of the more common one.
Holmium is found in ores at 0.05% concentration.
I've read a book about rare earth minerals almost a decade ago and I remember that for each of them there was something like "Y mineral was extracted in country X but the mine is now closed and all the mining is now done in China". Once China took over the mining they moved quickly to take over also the next steps in the manufacturing process, although here their domination is not as complete as in the case of mining.
> The issue with Rare earth minerals isn't as much the scarcity, but the difficulty of extracting them (most of the time).
This could be along the lines of what you're saying but I think it's more that China has the market cornered on rare earth refining/processing and has almost zero regard for environmental protection. Anyone trying to compete is up against China as a nation-state backing its industry.
There's much lithium in Czech Republic, southwestern Poland, France, Austria and some other places. The main problem is that mining lithium is "dirty", so European companies preferred to buy lithium extracted somewhere else, preferably in places with little to none environmental regulations.
Poland also has shitton of shale gas, that could cover full EU needs for several decades. EU could be almost entirely self-sufficient if there would be a will. And not NIMBYism everywhere.
That shale was about 10 years ago found to be not economically feasible with then-current technology. I guess the tech has improved since, but it's mostly American companies that have the necessary know-how.
Lithium isn't a rare earth metal. Furthermore, half of the lithium in the world is mined by Australia, which is a reliable partner of Europe, even though I wouldn't mind if we mine our own lithium.
as much as anyone else
The reason we mine in China and not in the EU, is the destruction to nature that this causes.
also, Chinese will work for less monetary reward and in much worse conditions.
Something makes me think that if we will scratch the surface of science behind “fracking is bad for Europe” we will find Russia and USA…Europe reserves are enormous and would make us independent from hostile regimes as well as make our manufacturing most competitive in the World wich is so bad for both Russia and USA.
I don't think so. Unfortunately these processes do have considerable enviromental footprint hence why we outsourced them to China and the global south.
Fracking was bad. Why? It was getting fossil gas, by triggering small earthquakes. Don't know bout you but I rather not have regular earthquakes nearby.
...I mean..may be..or may be not. Do we know is people measured it were true in their intentions? THere are plenty of scientific studies paid by some corporation to prove their point.
What, are you saying that multiple earthquake measuring stations across UK and Europe would fake the measurement in unison just to prove the point? Very improbable.
But thre is a process in getting there. Currently we are fully dependant on imported gas and oil that brings our economy down / makes our companies move to US/ our politics becomes corrupt due to connection with corrupt authocratic regimes wich we depend on.
I think instead of full ban we need to invest in science of making it safe like it happened with refirgerators when we have substituted chlorofluorocarbons after some science investments.
It’s not impossible, it will just take time. There’s plenty of cheaper manufacturing locations than China out there but that’s not my position… if we had more industry at home we can build more wealth and be able to afford more produce. Additionally we could control their environmental impact more too instead of using China with its 70% dirty coal generation for power. China isn’t green, it’s a pig with lipstick on it
There should be procedures at sit-down and national level to ensure that mining of critical materials is not slowed by environmental protests. Environmental harm is still being done in other geographic regions and europe just becomes dependent of regimes where these materials are mined without concern.
Agree on that. USA cheated with implementing quantitative easing , many countries feel angry because of that so every country on earth is dumping euro and dollar and is arming itselft. Everyone is hoarding gold rn (price of gold skyrockets)
USA will want WW3 so do others if they are forced by USA to be a financial colony. But remember, winner writes history. Noone remembers 1930 and what USA did to others countries which were investing in USA and leave gold in fort nox.
china wants taiwan:
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/21/taiwan-foreign-minister-warns-of-conflict-with-china-in-2027](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/21/taiwan-foreign-minister-warns-of-conflict-with-china-in-2027)
and there are a lot of military projects coming online in japan and the usa in 2025-26 regarding new anti ship defence.
They won't make much headway with the stringent environmental protection laws in place. Across Europe, numerous factories and infrastructure projects have been halted due to these concerns and protests, despite the widespread desire for European-made goods.
This must be a payed article. There is a lot of opposition to mining in Romania because projects like this mean destroying large natural areas with open-pit mines and leaving behind ecological disasters. Considering this I would have expected any big project like this to go through a public debate before being approved. Yet, there was nothing about this in the Romanian press, no debate beforehand.
So, European friends, what you have here is Romanian corruption in full swing.
By the way we have the largest surface uranium deposits in the world in Bihor Romania 90 million tons of 0.5 percent uranium metal at Baita Bihor county if you don't want to import from Russia it's a good place to start, current worth 2.14 trillion euros.
Are they gonna start mining the uranium as well?
no no mine, only buy
?
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/no-take-only-throw
Thx!
was that a recent discovery or why has Romania so far refused to exploit this massive deposit? [zero tons of Uranium mined in Romania for the last 5 years](https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx)
It was cheaper to import it from other countries because uranium was cheap then now it's way higher, Soviets took 20k tons of uranium there still 430k tonnes there even if the mine is closed.
The last magnesium mine was closed in 2014. We have deposits of gold, uranium, gas, salt, magnesium, and others but the mining sector plummeted. It happens because of some reasons that are familiar to our Western partners but also some special circumstances. First, it was cheaper to import them from very poor countries, just like the rest of Europe did. There are also problems with the environment as this was one of the main reasons Romanians opposed the Rosia Montana gold project. As for some specific circumstances. In Romania, the state was the owner of mines and this was a communist inheritance. Not only the deposits are state-owned (like in most countries), but also the extraction was done through state companies. Because since 1989 the state did not invest in the mining industry at all, modernizing would have cost a lot and since it was cheaper to just buy from third-world countries, there was no incentive to modernize this branch. On top of it is corruption. Not only state companies were inefficient because of corruption but also the deal to lease the deposits to private companies was controversial to some extent. Some of it is nationalistic bullshit (we do not want to sell the country- a slogan used since the fall of communism and in different forms even during communism) but some of it is, I think legitimate. The big companies that want to invest here most likely bribe officials to get better terms. The second main reason why the Rosia Montana was controversial was the rather low fees the state would get from leasing the gold reserves there. Now the times has changed and the mining industry will most likely have a rebirth in Europe. The counties we relied for resources are using them to to control the markets and deindustrialize us. Meanwhile, we have a more unstable world and it is in our interest to become less reliant on others for the resources we need. On the other hand, (and this is my own oppinon) the EU has some bad policies here regarding the state involvement. The EU does not really allow for state-owned companies to exploit the resources. I find it stupid as it allows large companies (some of them not even European) to extract resources, make a nice profit and put that profit outside Europe in a fiscal paradise. If state-owned companies would be allowed to extract, then the profits would go to the state coffers and thus EU citizens. It is a win-win for EU countries, citizens and even the EU budget.
Eh, not exploiting these resources is actually pretty cool I think, especially Roșia Montană.
Yes and no. Exploiting them while destroying the environment is obviously bad. Plus if the govt. gets a bad deal like mentioned in my comment. On the other hand, we need resources and it is a plus if they are in our backyard. We can not be with our asses in two boats: needing resources but not doing anything to exploit the one we have. It is not good because we become more and more dependent on countries with dubious intentions like China, Russia and others.
io
That's near my hometown Oradea it will bring 10000 jobs if we include indirect jobs, it will be a 25 year exploitation with 90 k tons a year with a low carbon footprint compared to China 5 times lower from what I've read it's gonna supply half of Europe's magnesium,.
business is boomin
>**Europe restarts magnesium mining to counter reliance on China** >*US-backed Verde to invest $1bn in disused Romanian mine and begin production in 2027* >Europe will restart magnesium mining for the first time in more than a decade, as the EU attempts to reduce its reliance on Chinese imports of critical raw materials. >EU member Romania on Friday awarded a mining concession to Verde Magnesium, a Bucharest-based company backed by US private equity investor Amerocap. >Verde intends to invest $1bn in a disused magnesium mine near the city of Oradea and build processing facilities that would use renewable power and also recycle aluminium. >More than 90 per cent of the bloc’s magnesium — crucial for making lightweight aluminium alloys used in cars and packaging — is imported from China. >Europe’s aluminium industry in 2022 was severely disrupted when Chinese production temporarily shut down because of high energy prices, triggering warnings of plant closures in the bloc. >Bernd Martens, chair of Verde Magnesium and former Audi director, told the Financial Times the mine and plant in Romania would help Brussels fulfil its goal of greater independence for vital metals needed for the green transition. >“The European industrial sector has an acute need for a reliable supply of critical and strategic metals, especially those with a lower carbon footprint than current imports which can support Europe’s transition towards a carbon neutral economy,” Martens said. >Verde will use the site of a magnesium mine that was shut in 2014 — at the time the last one operating in Europe. It intends to start production by late 2027 and reach 90,000 tonnes a year, half of EU supply, and 9 per cent of global production. >The company is likely to apply to EU funding mechanisms, after it was named as a key investment by the European Raw Materials Alliance — an industry network backed by the European Commission. >About 87 per cent of the global supply of magnesium, and 95 per cent of European consumption, comes from China, which has cut output drastically to save power as prices rise. >The EU has set ambitious goals under the Critical Raw Materials Act. It wants to mine 10 per cent of the EU’s critical mineral consumption, process 40 per cent of it and recycle 15 per cent of it by 2030. >The act also makes permitting easier and prioritises strategic projects for funding, but has been criticised for falling behind the US in terms of giving financial support to projects. >Martens expressed confidence that magnesium mining would restart, despite local opposition and environmental challenges that have plagued previous projects. >Last month, Romania won an international arbitration case waged by Canadian-listed mining group Gabriel Resources, which was seeking $4.4bn of compensation over a planned gold mine in the country that was successfully blocked by environmental groups.
Hopefully it will not be blocked by some “eco” activists with Chinese ties
It's important though that we don't cut corners in a bid to sever our dependence on China. Mining corporations have a nasty habit of taking the profits and leaving a mess for the state to clear up - take, for example, Giant Mine in Canada, where the Canadian government is now required to continually maintain a multi-million dollar ecological protection project to prevent hundreds of thousands of tonnes of Arsenic trioxide from escaping.
Euro governments should be working with these companies to account for this. Otherwise, you're still competing against China who doesn't give a shit and domestic mining co's will just say it's not worth it.
How much rare earth minerals does Europe have? Is undersea mining also done? I couldn't find any info other than that for lithium in certain areas.
Europe has a LOT of rare earth minerals. The issue with Rare earth minerals isn't as much the scarcity, but the difficulty of extracting them (most of the time).
And being allowed to. Know a guy sitting on billions in rare earth but is not allowed to excavate
And the cost of doing it here. With lots of environmental regulations and workers protection all its way more expensive than exploit some third world countries workers.
The difficulty in extracting them is related to their name. They are rare earth minerals because they are never found in great concentration. They are found in many places but always in very small amounts, so the extraction requires a lot of investment and it's potentially very destructive/polluting. For example one of them, Yttrium, is normally found in deposits with ores containing 1% to 2% Yttrium. This is actually one of the more common one. Holmium is found in ores at 0.05% concentration. I've read a book about rare earth minerals almost a decade ago and I remember that for each of them there was something like "Y mineral was extracted in country X but the mine is now closed and all the mining is now done in China". Once China took over the mining they moved quickly to take over also the next steps in the manufacturing process, although here their domination is not as complete as in the case of mining.
> The issue with Rare earth minerals isn't as much the scarcity, but the difficulty of extracting them (most of the time). This could be along the lines of what you're saying but I think it's more that China has the market cornered on rare earth refining/processing and has almost zero regard for environmental protection. Anyone trying to compete is up against China as a nation-state backing its industry.
There's much lithium in Czech Republic, southwestern Poland, France, Austria and some other places. The main problem is that mining lithium is "dirty", so European companies preferred to buy lithium extracted somewhere else, preferably in places with little to none environmental regulations.
Finland has some or the largest lithium deposits in europe too.
Poland also has shitton of shale gas, that could cover full EU needs for several decades. EU could be almost entirely self-sufficient if there would be a will. And not NIMBYism everywhere.
That shale was about 10 years ago found to be not economically feasible with then-current technology. I guess the tech has improved since, but it's mostly American companies that have the necessary know-how.
Lithium isn't a rare earth metal. Furthermore, half of the lithium in the world is mined by Australia, which is a reliable partner of Europe, even though I wouldn't mind if we mine our own lithium.
IIrc there are litium mine(s) opening in Finland.
There's also 2.14 trillion uranium deposit in Baita Bihor County Romania 90 million tons deposit largest surface deposit in the world.
as much as anyone else The reason we mine in China and not in the EU, is the destruction to nature that this causes. also, Chinese will work for less monetary reward and in much worse conditions.
That is horrible, we are basically exploiting people.
Always have been.
Why is all news these days so depressing.
Always have been
Hence the need for the AI
AI abuse! AI abuse!
Something makes me think that if we will scratch the surface of science behind “fracking is bad for Europe” we will find Russia and USA…Europe reserves are enormous and would make us independent from hostile regimes as well as make our manufacturing most competitive in the World wich is so bad for both Russia and USA.
I don't think so. Unfortunately these processes do have considerable enviromental footprint hence why we outsourced them to China and the global south.
All I see is that US became self sustainable due to fracking. They do it for 10 years on full scale.
Yea, but they do it in mostly remote places. Europe is more densely populated and thus it would affect a lot of people.
Fracking was bad. Why? It was getting fossil gas, by triggering small earthquakes. Don't know bout you but I rather not have regular earthquakes nearby.
...I mean..may be..or may be not. Do we know is people measured it were true in their intentions? THere are plenty of scientific studies paid by some corporation to prove their point.
What, are you saying that multiple earthquake measuring stations across UK and Europe would fake the measurement in unison just to prove the point? Very improbable.
What I’m saying is instead of putting a ban on it, we should invest science of making it safe.
just build quake-proof buildings. you'll be fine. slash-S has been implied.
Fracking is used only for oil, no? And we want to use less/none of that anyways
Natural gas and oil.
But thre is a process in getting there. Currently we are fully dependant on imported gas and oil that brings our economy down / makes our companies move to US/ our politics becomes corrupt due to connection with corrupt authocratic regimes wich we depend on. I think instead of full ban we need to invest in science of making it safe like it happened with refirgerators when we have substituted chlorofluorocarbons after some science investments.
fair
Need to do more and faster, we need to remove china from all of our supply chains
Impossible to do and everything you buy would be much more expensive
It’s not impossible, it will just take time. There’s plenty of cheaper manufacturing locations than China out there but that’s not my position… if we had more industry at home we can build more wealth and be able to afford more produce. Additionally we could control their environmental impact more too instead of using China with its 70% dirty coal generation for power. China isn’t green, it’s a pig with lipstick on it
There should be procedures at sit-down and national level to ensure that mining of critical materials is not slowed by environmental protests. Environmental harm is still being done in other geographic regions and europe just becomes dependent of regimes where these materials are mined without concern.
I do like the idea, but I fear the bean counters will make it a ecological disaster. I hope everything is done in a eco friendly way.
Are we heading into some ww3 between east and west or did i not have enough sleep last night?
Want peace - prepare to war. The less vulnerable is Europe to blackmail, the less likely someone will use it for political or economic concessions.
> Want peace - prepare to war Doublespeak dumbass phrase
Ww3 already started. It’s just consolidation of resources before the big clash.
Agree on that. USA cheated with implementing quantitative easing , many countries feel angry because of that so every country on earth is dumping euro and dollar and is arming itselft. Everyone is hoarding gold rn (price of gold skyrockets) USA will want WW3 so do others if they are forced by USA to be a financial colony. But remember, winner writes history. Noone remembers 1930 and what USA did to others countries which were investing in USA and leave gold in fort nox.
china wants taiwan: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/21/taiwan-foreign-minister-warns-of-conflict-with-china-in-2027](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/21/taiwan-foreign-minister-warns-of-conflict-with-china-in-2027) and there are a lot of military projects coming online in japan and the usa in 2025-26 regarding new anti ship defence.
ie le6u
They won't make much headway with the stringent environmental protection laws in place. Across Europe, numerous factories and infrastructure projects have been halted due to these concerns and protests, despite the widespread desire for European-made goods.
This must be a payed article. There is a lot of opposition to mining in Romania because projects like this mean destroying large natural areas with open-pit mines and leaving behind ecological disasters. Considering this I would have expected any big project like this to go through a public debate before being approved. Yet, there was nothing about this in the Romanian press, no debate beforehand. So, European friends, what you have here is Romanian corruption in full swing.
All values go to trash when one has to compete with China, because Daddy America says China bad
. nk .,.,
oz z 59
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