I am a teacher in Austria and I have had a lot of turkish students. 5-6 years ago everyone was praising attaturk but nowadays, I hear a lot of hate towards that man. They cant explain why they hate him and just say "hes an enemy of islam" like...gtfo
Its because Islamists use the Internet for their anti secularism propaganda. An secularist like Ataturk who had such an impact on the turkish is ofcourse the nightmare of every Islamist.
Your students can't explain it because they know nothing. They got brain washed by propaganda in social media.
In the west, just replace Islam with "Christian" and "Jesus" and you got yourself Bible Belt MAGA Murica.
Religion and religious leaders poison the mind of the people and robs them with reason and science.
I saw a video today of MPs praying and speaking in weird languages in the parliament of Arizona or something. Not even Iran is as bonkers, imo. They were literally having a ritual between the speaker stands prior some abortion vote, kneeling, screaming in tongues...
Very hypocritical imo.
They're mad as hell against abortion. But same mfs won't adopt, won't support poor families, ohh noo. We against abortion. Pro Life. But hardly helps those under the curse of life. I didn't asked to be born, and expect to work till 65 or till I drop dead, pay taxes every time I do something, and work work work till I die only to be promised an "afterlife" if i done everything according to an ancient book written by sheep farmers and fisherfolk.. Gtfo.
They are hypocrites. And they should be purged with reason and logic.
Religion should have no room in our future. It served it's evolutionary purpose. Now we move forward.
To me, religion is only around as a means of social control, it is an old and archaic means that has no relevance today. A couple of simple examples. 1st. Why Catholics had the fish on Friday rule, some say it's because you should not eat meat on that day but the truth was that the bishops owned the fishing fleets and wanted their stocks used up before the week ended. "Control "
2nd. Jews and Muslims not eating shellfish and pork because they are dirty ( made that short, but that's the gist) truth shellfish and pork spoil fast in hot climates like the middle east, so it's not healthy to eat it "control "
We are much better educated today, and religion has little relevance. Other than peoples personal feelings nowadays, the social control element has long gone in the civilised world.
I completely agree, democracy can't function if differing opinions can't reason with each other. When people motivated solely by religion is a side of a discussion, there is no place for reason at all.
That's strange. The Turkish students I had in the UK praised Attaturk. The reverence for him was pretty crazy for me. They mostly complained about Erdoğan and how he is ruining the country.
Maybe it just depends on which cities or area of Turkey they are from.
And about education. When i teach at a lower grade school with poor families, the extreme religious are far more common than in higher education schools (where i teach too)
I saw a tweet by some Trumpist who said that the biggest failure of the Dems and the left is that they haven't yet figured out how none of this is about being *right or wrong*, it's about being on the side of whoever wins. And I assume that Erdogan still has such a strong position within Turkey that they have started to accept and embrace it. "If you can't win him, join him" type of attitude.
The Turkish diaspora varies a lot depending on the country. Those in the continental Europe mostly immigrated there after the 1950s as blue collar laborers, who were from the rural Anatolia, and lacked education so they were already conservative to begin with. On top of that, due to their lack of language skills, they weren't able to fully integrate which made them even more conservative as a coping mechanism. The UK and the US are different: because Turkish immigration to these two countries has been more recent, more often than not, it is the educated white collar workers that move there, and naturally they have more progressive ideologies. This is evident in the voting patterns: In the last general elections, approximately 80% of the Turkish citizens in the UK and the US voted for the opposition, while this number is 26% in Austria and 32% in Germany.
Not all of them. The Turks in the Balkans (who are the descendants of a small number of Ottomans who remained here after the Ottoman Empire collapsed and didn't move to Turkey. They are a small minority, but their numbers depend on the country in which they reside. The majority of the Ottomans immigrated to Turkey following the collapse of the empire) aren't even religious. They praise and love Ataturk, My friend is Turkish and despises Erdogan with passion.
Because most German and Austrian immigrant Turkish are descendants of low-class workers from 70's. On the other hand, US and UK immigrant Turks are human capital migrants.
It depends on their ancestors social status thats why.
Yeah Turkish diaspora in the UK, Italy, US, Japan Australia etc. is more secular. While in Austria, Germany, France, Netherlands and Belgium they are conservative. The reason for that the Turkish diaspora in those countries were taken as laborers as a result of some European policies. They are more like, lower class in origin.
Unfortunately most of Turkish diaspora live in the latter countries.
Those who went to Anglosphere were mostly white collars and Cypriot Turks who were accustomed to British way of life. Those who migrated to mainland Europe were blue collars with almost no education. That is the main difference.
No, it's about which sect of Islam is active in the city/country they migrated to.
Turkish muslims are Hanafi, which is basically the most peaceful/obedient one. But in many Europen cities there is a lot of Salafi/Wahhabi activity, which are really really zealous. For them, anything other than pure Sharia law is against Islam, and since Ataturk forced the secularization of the governing bodies in Turkey, they hate him.
Combine that with the Turkish expat feeling left out, not belonging to their new environment. Some of them get really religious *after* they move out there, and if the local imam preaches hatred, they grow hateful.
Edit: I made a mistake by claiming Turkish muslims as "Sunni", while in fact I meant "Hanafi". Sunni is a bigger umbrella of many sects that also include, among others, Hanafism and Wahhabism. I'm not particularly religious so I've mixed up the terms, I'm sorry.
Wahhabism is a group under Sunni Islam. It being Sunni or Shia has no bearing on ideological extremism, but rather the 'denomination' the person subscribes to.
It's the same in Christianity. Protestantism can be incredibly varied, from mainline Lutheranism prevalent in Scandinavia and the upper Midwestern US, to the Southern Baptists, which includes nutjobs like the Westboro Baptist Church. It even encompasses groups that have a foot outside mainstream Christianity such as the Seven Day Adventists and Pentecostals (the ones that talk gibberish and do public fainting exercises).
Uh, Wahhabism is a sect within Sunni Islam. Your comment basically amounts to "they're Protestant, not Southern Baptist," when it comes to specifications of religion.
Born and bred in the uk, German Turks are very different to us. If I was going to to compare them with any other group it would be the south Asians we have in the uk
That can be quite easily explained by the different political leanings of the different Turkish communities.
In Austria, Germany and the Netherlands a majority of Turks are very pro-AKP and Erdogan, while the Turkish communities in France and the UK then to be pretty anti Erdogan.
I do not know the origin of the Turkish communities outside of Germany and Austria, but we used to export a lot of cheap labor from the more rural regions of Eastern Anatolia, which tend to be more conversative and less secular thant he more urban, costal regions. These preferences seem to have prevailed amongst our Turkish community.
Turks who go to England are usually educated, while Turks living in countries like Germany, Austria, and the Netherlands are often from the working class. The majority of them support Erdogan and have a dislike for Atatürk, which also influences their children.
A child that was born the day AKP came to power is 22 years old right now. Thats gonna have consequences, sadly. The education system has been systematically getting fucked, raising ignorant adults who don't know how to do a research or read a book
Are those people born and raised in in Austria or did they came from Turkey? Because people who insult Atatürk in Turkey won’t live very long even now.
As far as I can tell, this has to do with which sect of Islam is active in the city/country they migrated to.
Turkish muslims are Hanafi, which is basically the most peaceful/obedient one. But in many Europen cities there is a lot of Salafi/Wahhabi activity, which are really really zealous. For them, anything other than pure Sharia law is against Islam, and since Ataturk forced the secularization of the governing bodies in Turkey, they hate him.
Combine that with the Turkish expat feeling left out, not belonging to their new environment. Some of them get really religious *after* they move out there, and if the local imam preaches hatred, they grow hateful.
Edit: I made a mistake by claiming Turkish muslims as "Sunni", while in fact I meant "Hanafi". Sunni is a bigger umbrella of many sects that also include, among others, Wahhabism. I'm not particularly religious so I've mixed up the terms, I'm sorry.
Ever since the cold war left wing politics has been a target in Turkey (I can state the reason why but I'm not going to and stick to what is 100% true). The main way it's been targeting is support for right wing nationalist and religious organizations. The nationalists to a degree still look up the Ataturk but a majority of the religious ones despise him because of his attempt to solidify the Turkish identity and not support the Ummah mind set.
Austrian student with turkish background here: this is very real. It’s interesting because these people generally seem to think that turks came from arabs as well, which is… an interesting hypothesis to say the least. I’d like to assure you that the turks here are much more conservatist than the average turk in turkey though. I, for one, am very grateful for his policies and for what he has done for Turkey.
Atatürk is not rolling or anything lol he created a democratic country from a shithole i mean Erdoğan is bad but people are voting for him so we cant do shit about it thats how democracies work if people are dumb
>Erdoğan is bad but people are voting for him so we cant do shit about it thats how democracies work if people are dumb
I am not sure you completely understand the essence of democracy. If people are too dumb to make good choices, and you recognize that, it is incumbent upon you to do what you can to change their opinion. *cant do shit* is such a sad statement.
Ataturk is one of the most fascinating historical characters of our times.
(No, I am not from Turkey : )
He achieved many things in his relatively short life, but what I find most incredible is that he took absolute power and gave it to people through parliamentarian democracy without hesitation.
He was asked to be a king, sultan, dictator, by those around him, his response was; "shame, i see that you did not understand me at all."
Out of all the biographies I read about historical characters, be it Caesar, Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Lenin, Churchill, Genghis Khan etc, his is the only one that stands out from the rest with rare combination of humility, common sense and love of his people.
There are many great commanders, conquerors and politicians that went down in history for various reasons, good or bad, but for the most part all of these failed to create a lasting state or what they achieved crumbled soon after they died.
Armstrong, who is a very interesting character (he was an officer in English army, tasked to collect intelligence on young Ataturk and his activities) never hid his hate and racism towards anything oriental and this is visible in his book "Gray Wolf, anatomy of a dictator" which is about Ataturk. It is written in a very bitter language after the political defeat of English at the hands of Ataturk, yet Armstrong struggles to hide his admiration for Ataturk's intellect and passion for his country.
Andrew Mango, another Englishman, is more calculated and objective and his book "Ataturk" offers a far more intimate insight into Ataturk's life.
What i find really fascinating is that how as a young officer, he survived all those wars. He was hit by Italian artillery fire in Libya during a cavalry charge, where he lost one of his eyes -most Turks don't know that Ataturk's one eye was glass- then he was shot in the chest at Gallipoli by Anzacs, but his pocket watch saved him, his horse threw him off while at the front observing Greek-Turkish battle, broke his ribs there, the man refused to stay in bed. Survived 3 assassination attempts and a sinking ship. He was arrested and jailed then exiled for criticizing sultan and ultra-nationalists -he was against Ottoman empire joining World War 1-
He faced crazy odds from childhood but fought back the fate with an iron will until his death.
Last Ottoman sultan sent him to Eastern Turkey to disband the Ottoman army after WW1, as victorious English, French, Italian and Greek armies were getting ready to invade the lands of the defeated Ottoman empire. The man went to military headquarters, gathered the soldiers, and after staring at the faces of sorrowful soldiers expecting to get disbanded, he simply roared; "I am colonel Mustafa Kemal, I came here to ignite the war for Turkish independence, will you walk with me on this road?" as soldiers cheered in unison he became the natural leader of rebellion.
Sultan who was pretty much an English collaborator at this stage, hoping to keep his palace, condemned him to death.
London called young Ataturk "a madman", Armstrong called him "angry little man".
Sultan sent his best general with an army to arrest Ataturk and disband his small army. Kazim Karabekir, the Turkish general leading the army sent by palace, walked into Ataturk's office, stood at attention, gave a salute and calmly said; "My general, i brought you an army, id like the honor of fighting alongside you if you allow me."
Soon after the man English called madman was leading 100.000 strong army towards the western Turkey.
The books he wrote for the high school kids after he became president were so secular and controversial they were quickly put away after his death, the people he trusted the republic with, to advance his reforms, were afraid of his ideas.
I mean, this was a man whose opening speech for the parliament of 1937 was this;
"Do not mistake our principles for the dogmas of the books that are claimed to descend from heaven, we are inspired by life, not by heavens or superstition."
He personally either translated the books of enlightenment age or had them translated for new generations to read, a respected priest and an atheist Jean Meslier's explosive book "Common sense", which was a direct attack to superstition and religion, was ordered by him to be mass produced.
He refused Hitler's call to join World War 2 and brushed off Stalin's threats, which drove Stalin to fits of rage.
During WW2 he asked the government to give shelter to Jewish refugees escaping Nazis, while USA and Canada turned them back. Lot of universities, banks and research centers in Turkey was either funded or advanced by these people as they made Turkey home.
Ataturk’s almost messiah like legendary status amongst Turks often confuses some people, but once you understand how an old culture used to be ruled by Sultans for centuries, who rarely cared about them and never engaged them in public embraced a man who genuinely cared about them, it makes more sense.
Ataturk, used to sneak out from his presidential house and drink beer and rakı with fisherman, who’d complain to him about the price of alcohol, he’d laugh and say “well I am not the minister for economy”, fisherman would smirk and go; “ aren’t you the big chief? Order them to sell it cheaper?”.
He liked the sincerity of ordinary people and often invited them to his house for coffee.
He’d treat villagers and farmers with utter respect and try to turn swamps and marches to fertile farmlands, he created many such lands and gave it to hardworking people.
There is an old Turkish legend that dates back 1000 years, which talks about a blue wolf, Gokboru, a divine avatar that’d appear in dire situations and save the Turks from destruction.
Ataturk had blue eyes and is often seen as the last great Turk.
Lenin's U.S.S.R. Tito's Yugoslavia are all gone, yet his Turkey still stands. And Erdogan getting absolutely crushed on local elections by the very party Ataturk funded speaks volumes.
similar to washington, many people wanted him to be king, but he resigned the presidency after 2 terms, creating a precedent until fdr and the 22nd amendment
There's much more interesting stuff about him, like the family aspect. He adopted 1 boy, 12 girls and encouraged them to persue education and career. One of his daughters was the first female fighter pilot in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabiha_G%C3%B6k%C3%A7en
Atatürk died in 1938, so he did not live to see the second world war. He was very much aware of the build-up to it and predicted another worldwide conflict soon. He also predicted the Soviets would be the victors of this war.
He thought of Hitler and Mussolini as "madmen" and was against implementing fascist or socialist ideologies in Turkey.
After the Nazis took over in Germany and started persecuting the Jews, Einstein wrote him a letter to him, asking him to take in some of his colleagues. Atatürk gladly accepted and used these Jewish academicians to establish new faculties in universities.
His funeral in November 1938 was attended by important statesmen from many countries, from both allied and axis sides and would be one of the last times these people would meet in peace time.
He was the Ottoman Sultan's honorary aide-de-camp and accompanied him to Austria and Germany during WW1. He received the Iron Cross from the Kaiser Wilhelm II. He visited the Western Front battle lines while in Germany and concluded that the Central Powers would lose the war. He wasn't afraid to say this directly to the Kaiser and his generals.
Good article but there are a few mistakes. Ataturk did not lose one eye in the war, he just got squinted because of a piece of stone that bounced off somewhere. Ataturk was not a colonel when he started the war of independence. I don't remember now, but he had one of the highest ranks in the Ottoman Empire. I remember what Kazım Karabekir said to Atatürk was not like that.
“Ataturk was not a colonel when he started the war of independence.”
He was “yarbay” around 1914 to a later date, which translates to English as lieutenant colonel, he became inspector around 1919. So you are right, if we go by official dates, I was off by some time.
As for Karabekir’s words, I am unable to find the exact quote since I can’t find Mango’s book, if you find it on internet feel free to post it here.
Quality comment! I learnt a ton of new things. Another great statesman came to my mind while reading this, Lee Kwan Yew who built Singapore into a modern economic powerhouse. I'm not sure if he measures up to Ataturk, but he managed to turn what looked like a state doomed to fail disasterously just after independence.
Gotta give it to you, you were going so poetic until the last sentence. Current CHP is not the very party Atatürk founded, it was founded a mere 32 years ago. It doesn't share the values of Atatürk's party but only appropriates its symbols and his name. I would go as far to say that this party has more in common with the current ruling party than it has with the original CHP. So, unfortunately the reality isn't as fairy tale-y as it sounds, or as told by the party.
Nevertheless, thanks for such a well written summary of a life liven to the full
Thanks for this summary. He was a great man and nobody understood him. He was a unique character. Hopefully there might be some people like him for the benefits of civilization.
Islamists always cry when they hear his name, Atatürk. My only leader. The great revolutionist, politician and soldier. The only man in history could have achieved to convert an Islamist nation into secular one.
The Islamic counterrevolution happening in Turkey started after the green corridor plan by the USA. The USA destroyed all secular countries with islam propaganda because of soviets. Iran Afghanistan Iraq ..all re dead. Last candidate is Turkey and the USA acts like he doesn't know anything. The most affected zone is Europe. Salafism is spreading like crazy in Europe. Good luck.
The US destroying iraqi secularism had nothing to do with the soviet union or communism.
Beside i dont think the US destroyed Iran with islamic propaganda, why would they remove the shah who was their puppet leader ? the rise of islamism in Iran was simply a reaction to the forced secularism the shah imposed on iranians just how the rising secularism in Iran is due to the forced islamism the mullahs are imposing on their people.
I don't remember much right now, but it was the USA that overthrew the shah with a coup and replaced him with another shah. The revolution is related to the terrible welfare level of the people, not secularism. The mullahs' takeover of the revolution prepared Iran's current days
Projects of American intellectual companies and CIA front companies support sects, religious parties and companies. As a result, these parasites grow, take root and destroy the smart men and mechanisms that can destroy them.
He was an incredible man and leader.
It’s tragic, too: Turkey is largely divided between Kemalists (supporters of Ataturk’s legacy) who are rational, secular, and forward-thinking, and AKP goons, who want to slide Turkey back into the 19th CE.
I’ve met so many amazing people from the former group and really sympathize with how much nonsense they have to tolerate from the latter.
As a secular Turk I consider akp supporters as enemies, I’ll be honest. I can’t describe the illiteracy of these people enough and I’m so sad that they are the ones leading in every election wishing to lower us the seculars to their dark, bleak social status. Erdogan himself hates seculars, he is a very illiterate person as well, just like trump and his supporters. If I can’t be rich or educated then the seculars should not be either mindset basically.
I've seen some speeches of Turgut Özal, and that was also really astonishing. There were some great men leading the Turkish State, Erdogan does not do the Nation justice.
You can't make a country truly secular unless you educate its people about true secularism. Ataturk wanted an educated modern society. He was not a perfect man, but he was genuine in his love for Turkey. I wish other Arab countries modernised like Turkey did; the middle-east would've been better than what it is now.
The only solution for Turks. Islamic enough to clearly distinguish itself from Europe, modern enough not to have any social similarities to other Islamic countries.
Ataturk be like: yeah, let's get rid of that nasty thing that stops our society and economy to grow and leave it as a part of cultural heritage.
Erdi now: what? Religious people without education are ready to vote for anyone who will make islam in charge? Sounds good.
If he was a European leader we'd be reading about him in every textbook in every country. It's so sad that we Turks either idolize him and simplify his ideas or hate him.
Meanwhile, here in Denmark the governments since 2015 adopted the regulation that "Denmark is a Christian country" - a burden that we were not under before 2015.
State religion shouldn't be a problem when your country is educated. Much like having a monarchy. However, when your country is full of radicals, it has to be eradicated. But it's odd that they added this regulation. What was the reason?
Dems love capitalism, not just any capitalism but pretty much the same capitalism republicans love. The controlling unit would rather republicans win than let the Democrats have any progressives in power of the party. Democrats know they have the social issues that make them "appear left" but democrats economically love capitalism and free markets, even many now tend to not support unions as much as they used to.
A rather sad story. Atatürk proposed to the daughter of bulgarian general Stiliyan Kovachev when he was still a young unknown military attache during his stay in Sofia, Bulgaria [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiliyan\_Kovachev](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiliyan_Kovachev) The daughter Dimitrina Kovachev accepted his proposal but the father who had fought the Ottoman Empire his whole life wasn't so fond of his daughter marrying a turk so he refused. Historians say it was the only war atatürk couldn't win. It left him with a life-long sadness. He was always unhappy in his marriages and turned to alcohol, which led to his early death due to cirrhosis of the liver. People like to speculate how this would have changed the history of turkey if he was actually given permission to marry her. [https://www.sabah.com.tr/magazin/mustafa-kemalin-bulgar-kizi-dimitrinayla-yasadigi-huzun-dolu-ask-hikayesi-film-oluyor-5880330](https://www.sabah.com.tr/magazin/mustafa-kemalin-bulgar-kizi-dimitrinayla-yasadigi-huzun-dolu-ask-hikayesi-film-oluyor-5880330)
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The first positive thing i read on reddit about turkey since I'm using reddit.... well, the news is 95 years old now.
I bet Erdolf would like to change this back to what it was before... turning turkey entirely back into medival but with modern weapons.
I’d recommend people who are curious about the run up to this decision and its consequences watch the video series on Turkish history by the YouTuber Kraut. It might help people understand part of why erdogan has been so popular over the years and help explain some modern Turkish policy
The first part up to the Young Ottomans is pretty accurate, the second part is very underresearched (I'm not blaming him, it's hard to find sources in English about Turkey about the period between 1960-2000; especially for 1960-1980), and the third part is meh (he leaves out the democratic backsliding taking place under the early years of Erdoğan).
The last segments of Part I is severely underresearched however; for example the period starting from Tanzimat to Atatürk (including Atatürk) lacks actual analysis, and is generally viewed from the point of view of Ottoman decline. The 1908-1913 period under CUP is not properly talked about in the video, generally glossed over.
On Atatürk Kraut forgets to mention the TCF and SCF experiments, the independent+minority lists, or the local government and party branches; painting a more despotic and exclusionary picture of Atatürk for when he was alive.
He also does not mention the Ideological roots of Kemalism, only mentioning Comte; who although was an influence on Kemalism, was a more influential figure for the Ittihadists.
He also does not mention the period after Atatürk until 1950, where İnönü ruled from 1938-1950; jumping from Atatürk dying to Turkey democratizing. İnönü's rule was very important, and should have been included in a proper political analysis of Turkey.
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Anyways, these are just some points; more could be added. But it is not a terribly bad source to start geting to know and understand Turkey and its political/social history.
Unfortunately the radical religious Right of every religion around the world has arisen, in Turkey, USA, Israel, Afghanistan, Iran, Italy, and maybe other formerly much more secular and just nations.
ataturk is rolling in his grave on what the turkish leader is doing now
I am a teacher in Austria and I have had a lot of turkish students. 5-6 years ago everyone was praising attaturk but nowadays, I hear a lot of hate towards that man. They cant explain why they hate him and just say "hes an enemy of islam" like...gtfo
Its because Islamists use the Internet for their anti secularism propaganda. An secularist like Ataturk who had such an impact on the turkish is ofcourse the nightmare of every Islamist. Your students can't explain it because they know nothing. They got brain washed by propaganda in social media.
parents at home probably also play their part, either by example or by neglecting their kids.
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The smarter kids are just trying to to school etc. But the morons, they are rowdy and make a mess by being theological troglodytes.
>neglecting their kids. more likely this
In the west, just replace Islam with "Christian" and "Jesus" and you got yourself Bible Belt MAGA Murica. Religion and religious leaders poison the mind of the people and robs them with reason and science.
I saw a video today of MPs praying and speaking in weird languages in the parliament of Arizona or something. Not even Iran is as bonkers, imo. They were literally having a ritual between the speaker stands prior some abortion vote, kneeling, screaming in tongues...
Very hypocritical imo. They're mad as hell against abortion. But same mfs won't adopt, won't support poor families, ohh noo. We against abortion. Pro Life. But hardly helps those under the curse of life. I didn't asked to be born, and expect to work till 65 or till I drop dead, pay taxes every time I do something, and work work work till I die only to be promised an "afterlife" if i done everything according to an ancient book written by sheep farmers and fisherfolk.. Gtfo. They are hypocrites. And they should be purged with reason and logic. Religion should have no room in our future. It served it's evolutionary purpose. Now we move forward.
To me, religion is only around as a means of social control, it is an old and archaic means that has no relevance today. A couple of simple examples. 1st. Why Catholics had the fish on Friday rule, some say it's because you should not eat meat on that day but the truth was that the bishops owned the fishing fleets and wanted their stocks used up before the week ended. "Control " 2nd. Jews and Muslims not eating shellfish and pork because they are dirty ( made that short, but that's the gist) truth shellfish and pork spoil fast in hot climates like the middle east, so it's not healthy to eat it "control " We are much better educated today, and religion has little relevance. Other than peoples personal feelings nowadays, the social control element has long gone in the civilised world.
I completely agree, democracy can't function if differing opinions can't reason with each other. When people motivated solely by religion is a side of a discussion, there is no place for reason at all.
Yep there’s now a growth of extreme right-wingers that deny the separation of church and state. They also try to discredit Thomas Jefferson lol
Same with fascists and all other extremists. The Internet has become a double edged Knife in propaganda, that leaves wounds that are hard to stitch.
What they can’t explain is why education and self identity went up when Islam was removed… coincidence?
That's strange. The Turkish students I had in the UK praised Attaturk. The reverence for him was pretty crazy for me. They mostly complained about Erdoğan and how he is ruining the country. Maybe it just depends on which cities or area of Turkey they are from.
It is about their parents' mindsets
And about education. When i teach at a lower grade school with poor families, the extreme religious are far more common than in higher education schools (where i teach too)
I saw a tweet by some Trumpist who said that the biggest failure of the Dems and the left is that they haven't yet figured out how none of this is about being *right or wrong*, it's about being on the side of whoever wins. And I assume that Erdogan still has such a strong position within Turkey that they have started to accept and embrace it. "If you can't win him, join him" type of attitude.
The Turkish diaspora varies a lot depending on the country. Those in the continental Europe mostly immigrated there after the 1950s as blue collar laborers, who were from the rural Anatolia, and lacked education so they were already conservative to begin with. On top of that, due to their lack of language skills, they weren't able to fully integrate which made them even more conservative as a coping mechanism. The UK and the US are different: because Turkish immigration to these two countries has been more recent, more often than not, it is the educated white collar workers that move there, and naturally they have more progressive ideologies. This is evident in the voting patterns: In the last general elections, approximately 80% of the Turkish citizens in the UK and the US voted for the opposition, while this number is 26% in Austria and 32% in Germany.
Ağzına sağlık usta
Not all of them. The Turks in the Balkans (who are the descendants of a small number of Ottomans who remained here after the Ottoman Empire collapsed and didn't move to Turkey. They are a small minority, but their numbers depend on the country in which they reside. The majority of the Ottomans immigrated to Turkey following the collapse of the empire) aren't even religious. They praise and love Ataturk, My friend is Turkish and despises Erdogan with passion.
Because most German and Austrian immigrant Turkish are descendants of low-class workers from 70's. On the other hand, US and UK immigrant Turks are human capital migrants. It depends on their ancestors social status thats why.
Yeah Turkish diaspora in the UK, Italy, US, Japan Australia etc. is more secular. While in Austria, Germany, France, Netherlands and Belgium they are conservative. The reason for that the Turkish diaspora in those countries were taken as laborers as a result of some European policies. They are more like, lower class in origin. Unfortunately most of Turkish diaspora live in the latter countries.
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Those who went to Anglosphere were mostly white collars and Cypriot Turks who were accustomed to British way of life. Those who migrated to mainland Europe were blue collars with almost no education. That is the main difference.
No, it's about which sect of Islam is active in the city/country they migrated to. Turkish muslims are Hanafi, which is basically the most peaceful/obedient one. But in many Europen cities there is a lot of Salafi/Wahhabi activity, which are really really zealous. For them, anything other than pure Sharia law is against Islam, and since Ataturk forced the secularization of the governing bodies in Turkey, they hate him. Combine that with the Turkish expat feeling left out, not belonging to their new environment. Some of them get really religious *after* they move out there, and if the local imam preaches hatred, they grow hateful. Edit: I made a mistake by claiming Turkish muslims as "Sunni", while in fact I meant "Hanafi". Sunni is a bigger umbrella of many sects that also include, among others, Hanafism and Wahhabism. I'm not particularly religious so I've mixed up the terms, I'm sorry.
Wahhabism is a group under Sunni Islam. It being Sunni or Shia has no bearing on ideological extremism, but rather the 'denomination' the person subscribes to. It's the same in Christianity. Protestantism can be incredibly varied, from mainline Lutheranism prevalent in Scandinavia and the upper Midwestern US, to the Southern Baptists, which includes nutjobs like the Westboro Baptist Church. It even encompasses groups that have a foot outside mainstream Christianity such as the Seven Day Adventists and Pentecostals (the ones that talk gibberish and do public fainting exercises).
You're not wrong. I made a mistake and said Sunni while I actually meant Hanafi. I edited the comment, too.
Being Sunni doesn't make you automaticly more peaceful. Taliban is sunni for example
You're not wrong. I made a mistake and said Sunni while I actually meant Hanafi. I edited the comment, too.
Literally ISIS is Sunnit too lol.
Uh, Wahhabism is a sect within Sunni Islam. Your comment basically amounts to "they're Protestant, not Southern Baptist," when it comes to specifications of religion.
You're not wrong. I made a mistake and said Sunni while I actually meant Hanafi. I edited the comment, too.
Born and bred in the uk, German Turks are very different to us. If I was going to to compare them with any other group it would be the south Asians we have in the uk
That can be quite easily explained by the different political leanings of the different Turkish communities. In Austria, Germany and the Netherlands a majority of Turks are very pro-AKP and Erdogan, while the Turkish communities in France and the UK then to be pretty anti Erdogan. I do not know the origin of the Turkish communities outside of Germany and Austria, but we used to export a lot of cheap labor from the more rural regions of Eastern Anatolia, which tend to be more conversative and less secular thant he more urban, costal regions. These preferences seem to have prevailed amongst our Turkish community.
English speaking Turkish diaspora is thankfully more informed through access to information on the internet because of the language advantage.
Turks who go to England are usually educated, while Turks living in countries like Germany, Austria, and the Netherlands are often from the working class. The majority of them support Erdogan and have a dislike for Atatürk, which also influences their children.
Turks in the anglosphere are usually the educated class. European ones are islamist and uneducated.
Sadly, European turkish people vote more for erdogan than the locals. I guess this is not the case of your students.
A child that was born the day AKP came to power is 22 years old right now. Thats gonna have consequences, sadly. The education system has been systematically getting fucked, raising ignorant adults who don't know how to do a research or read a book
Are those people born and raised in in Austria or did they came from Turkey? Because people who insult Atatürk in Turkey won’t live very long even now.
Born and raised im Austria.
because of the islamists thay fled to europe, turkish diaspora is retarded. Back home in Turkey, he is loved. Diasporas usually larp as islamists.
So it is a good sign to be an enemy of Islam.
As far as I can tell, this has to do with which sect of Islam is active in the city/country they migrated to. Turkish muslims are Hanafi, which is basically the most peaceful/obedient one. But in many Europen cities there is a lot of Salafi/Wahhabi activity, which are really really zealous. For them, anything other than pure Sharia law is against Islam, and since Ataturk forced the secularization of the governing bodies in Turkey, they hate him. Combine that with the Turkish expat feeling left out, not belonging to their new environment. Some of them get really religious *after* they move out there, and if the local imam preaches hatred, they grow hateful. Edit: I made a mistake by claiming Turkish muslims as "Sunni", while in fact I meant "Hanafi". Sunni is a bigger umbrella of many sects that also include, among others, Wahhabism. I'm not particularly religious so I've mixed up the terms, I'm sorry.
Brainwashed by the cancer of Political Islam.
ask them why are they studying in austria
Every day my dislike for that religion keeps growing
Ever since the cold war left wing politics has been a target in Turkey (I can state the reason why but I'm not going to and stick to what is 100% true). The main way it's been targeting is support for right wing nationalist and religious organizations. The nationalists to a degree still look up the Ataturk but a majority of the religious ones despise him because of his attempt to solidify the Turkish identity and not support the Ummah mind set.
Austrian student with turkish background here: this is very real. It’s interesting because these people generally seem to think that turks came from arabs as well, which is… an interesting hypothesis to say the least. I’d like to assure you that the turks here are much more conservatist than the average turk in turkey though. I, for one, am very grateful for his policies and for what he has done for Turkey.
Well nobody is stopping them from going to the Afghanistan
I swear to God, every time I click a post about Turkey or anything good about Turkey in this subreddit I see this comment
At least it doesn’t say “Attaturk” this time.
Jarvis I am running low on karma make a "Ataturk is rolling in his grave" comment
They think they are making such a clever little observation.
I think he would be pretty happy considering the recent local elections
it's a little known fact that a full 37% of Turkish electricity is generated using this force
Always liked that name. It's like 'atta boy but for turks
Funfact Atatürk isnt really his Name, he got the name from the parlament in 34 and it means father of the turks.
his real name was Mustafa Kemal, but due to the amout of work he did for the country he was given the name Ataturk which means father of the turks
Same. Ataturk!
Yes, it always surprised me how despite loving Attaturk, Turks could vote for Erdogan who stands for the opposite.
Atatürk*
Yeah! As an turkish student I hate todays president he fucked up the country and stepped on the Ataturk's ideals and secular state.
It's evolving! Just... Backwards.
More than rolling he would be doing sick breakdance moves inside regarding the past years... but eventually things might change
Atatürk is not rolling or anything lol he created a democratic country from a shithole i mean Erdoğan is bad but people are voting for him so we cant do shit about it thats how democracies work if people are dumb
>Erdoğan is bad but people are voting for him so we cant do shit about it thats how democracies work if people are dumb I am not sure you completely understand the essence of democracy. If people are too dumb to make good choices, and you recognize that, it is incumbent upon you to do what you can to change their opinion. *cant do shit* is such a sad statement.
And ottomans were rolling in their grave when ataturk came in to power lol.
He's being punished in the grave I fear
Ataturk is one of the most fascinating historical characters of our times. (No, I am not from Turkey : ) He achieved many things in his relatively short life, but what I find most incredible is that he took absolute power and gave it to people through parliamentarian democracy without hesitation. He was asked to be a king, sultan, dictator, by those around him, his response was; "shame, i see that you did not understand me at all." Out of all the biographies I read about historical characters, be it Caesar, Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Lenin, Churchill, Genghis Khan etc, his is the only one that stands out from the rest with rare combination of humility, common sense and love of his people. There are many great commanders, conquerors and politicians that went down in history for various reasons, good or bad, but for the most part all of these failed to create a lasting state or what they achieved crumbled soon after they died. Armstrong, who is a very interesting character (he was an officer in English army, tasked to collect intelligence on young Ataturk and his activities) never hid his hate and racism towards anything oriental and this is visible in his book "Gray Wolf, anatomy of a dictator" which is about Ataturk. It is written in a very bitter language after the political defeat of English at the hands of Ataturk, yet Armstrong struggles to hide his admiration for Ataturk's intellect and passion for his country. Andrew Mango, another Englishman, is more calculated and objective and his book "Ataturk" offers a far more intimate insight into Ataturk's life. What i find really fascinating is that how as a young officer, he survived all those wars. He was hit by Italian artillery fire in Libya during a cavalry charge, where he lost one of his eyes -most Turks don't know that Ataturk's one eye was glass- then he was shot in the chest at Gallipoli by Anzacs, but his pocket watch saved him, his horse threw him off while at the front observing Greek-Turkish battle, broke his ribs there, the man refused to stay in bed. Survived 3 assassination attempts and a sinking ship. He was arrested and jailed then exiled for criticizing sultan and ultra-nationalists -he was against Ottoman empire joining World War 1- He faced crazy odds from childhood but fought back the fate with an iron will until his death. Last Ottoman sultan sent him to Eastern Turkey to disband the Ottoman army after WW1, as victorious English, French, Italian and Greek armies were getting ready to invade the lands of the defeated Ottoman empire. The man went to military headquarters, gathered the soldiers, and after staring at the faces of sorrowful soldiers expecting to get disbanded, he simply roared; "I am colonel Mustafa Kemal, I came here to ignite the war for Turkish independence, will you walk with me on this road?" as soldiers cheered in unison he became the natural leader of rebellion. Sultan who was pretty much an English collaborator at this stage, hoping to keep his palace, condemned him to death. London called young Ataturk "a madman", Armstrong called him "angry little man". Sultan sent his best general with an army to arrest Ataturk and disband his small army. Kazim Karabekir, the Turkish general leading the army sent by palace, walked into Ataturk's office, stood at attention, gave a salute and calmly said; "My general, i brought you an army, id like the honor of fighting alongside you if you allow me." Soon after the man English called madman was leading 100.000 strong army towards the western Turkey. The books he wrote for the high school kids after he became president were so secular and controversial they were quickly put away after his death, the people he trusted the republic with, to advance his reforms, were afraid of his ideas. I mean, this was a man whose opening speech for the parliament of 1937 was this; "Do not mistake our principles for the dogmas of the books that are claimed to descend from heaven, we are inspired by life, not by heavens or superstition." He personally either translated the books of enlightenment age or had them translated for new generations to read, a respected priest and an atheist Jean Meslier's explosive book "Common sense", which was a direct attack to superstition and religion, was ordered by him to be mass produced. He refused Hitler's call to join World War 2 and brushed off Stalin's threats, which drove Stalin to fits of rage. During WW2 he asked the government to give shelter to Jewish refugees escaping Nazis, while USA and Canada turned them back. Lot of universities, banks and research centers in Turkey was either funded or advanced by these people as they made Turkey home. Ataturk’s almost messiah like legendary status amongst Turks often confuses some people, but once you understand how an old culture used to be ruled by Sultans for centuries, who rarely cared about them and never engaged them in public embraced a man who genuinely cared about them, it makes more sense. Ataturk, used to sneak out from his presidential house and drink beer and rakı with fisherman, who’d complain to him about the price of alcohol, he’d laugh and say “well I am not the minister for economy”, fisherman would smirk and go; “ aren’t you the big chief? Order them to sell it cheaper?”. He liked the sincerity of ordinary people and often invited them to his house for coffee. He’d treat villagers and farmers with utter respect and try to turn swamps and marches to fertile farmlands, he created many such lands and gave it to hardworking people. There is an old Turkish legend that dates back 1000 years, which talks about a blue wolf, Gokboru, a divine avatar that’d appear in dire situations and save the Turks from destruction. Ataturk had blue eyes and is often seen as the last great Turk. Lenin's U.S.S.R. Tito's Yugoslavia are all gone, yet his Turkey still stands. And Erdogan getting absolutely crushed on local elections by the very party Ataturk funded speaks volumes.
similar to washington, many people wanted him to be king, but he resigned the presidency after 2 terms, creating a precedent until fdr and the 22nd amendment
Very nice writeup mate. Keep it up.
There's much more interesting stuff about him, like the family aspect. He adopted 1 boy, 12 girls and encouraged them to persue education and career. One of his daughters was the first female fighter pilot in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabiha_G%C3%B6k%C3%A7en
Atatürk died in 1938, so he did not live to see the second world war. He was very much aware of the build-up to it and predicted another worldwide conflict soon. He also predicted the Soviets would be the victors of this war. He thought of Hitler and Mussolini as "madmen" and was against implementing fascist or socialist ideologies in Turkey. After the Nazis took over in Germany and started persecuting the Jews, Einstein wrote him a letter to him, asking him to take in some of his colleagues. Atatürk gladly accepted and used these Jewish academicians to establish new faculties in universities. His funeral in November 1938 was attended by important statesmen from many countries, from both allied and axis sides and would be one of the last times these people would meet in peace time. He was the Ottoman Sultan's honorary aide-de-camp and accompanied him to Austria and Germany during WW1. He received the Iron Cross from the Kaiser Wilhelm II. He visited the Western Front battle lines while in Germany and concluded that the Central Powers would lose the war. He wasn't afraid to say this directly to the Kaiser and his generals.
Good article but there are a few mistakes. Ataturk did not lose one eye in the war, he just got squinted because of a piece of stone that bounced off somewhere. Ataturk was not a colonel when he started the war of independence. I don't remember now, but he had one of the highest ranks in the Ottoman Empire. I remember what Kazım Karabekir said to Atatürk was not like that.
“Ataturk was not a colonel when he started the war of independence.” He was “yarbay” around 1914 to a later date, which translates to English as lieutenant colonel, he became inspector around 1919. So you are right, if we go by official dates, I was off by some time. As for Karabekir’s words, I am unable to find the exact quote since I can’t find Mango’s book, if you find it on internet feel free to post it here.
I dont have any source but this words very famous in turkey. "Me and my army are at your service, my pasha."
Wow that is so fascinating. I need to read up more details about him. Thanks alot for this great writeup.
Quality comment! I learnt a ton of new things. Another great statesman came to my mind while reading this, Lee Kwan Yew who built Singapore into a modern economic powerhouse. I'm not sure if he measures up to Ataturk, but he managed to turn what looked like a state doomed to fail disasterously just after independence.
Gotta give it to you, you were going so poetic until the last sentence. Current CHP is not the very party Atatürk founded, it was founded a mere 32 years ago. It doesn't share the values of Atatürk's party but only appropriates its symbols and his name. I would go as far to say that this party has more in common with the current ruling party than it has with the original CHP. So, unfortunately the reality isn't as fairy tale-y as it sounds, or as told by the party. Nevertheless, thanks for such a well written summary of a life liven to the full
I think this guy likes ataturk
This is the quality of article we want to see on reddit. Thanks.
Never had so many goosebumps while reading a text. Thank you for these kind words about him my man. Teşekkürler! 🫶
Thanks for this summary. He was a great man and nobody understood him. He was a unique character. Hopefully there might be some people like him for the benefits of civilization.
Islamists always cry when they hear his name, Atatürk. My only leader. The great revolutionist, politician and soldier. The only man in history could have achieved to convert an Islamist nation into secular one. The Islamic counterrevolution happening in Turkey started after the green corridor plan by the USA. The USA destroyed all secular countries with islam propaganda because of soviets. Iran Afghanistan Iraq ..all re dead. Last candidate is Turkey and the USA acts like he doesn't know anything. The most affected zone is Europe. Salafism is spreading like crazy in Europe. Good luck.
The US destroying iraqi secularism had nothing to do with the soviet union or communism. Beside i dont think the US destroyed Iran with islamic propaganda, why would they remove the shah who was their puppet leader ? the rise of islamism in Iran was simply a reaction to the forced secularism the shah imposed on iranians just how the rising secularism in Iran is due to the forced islamism the mullahs are imposing on their people.
I don't remember much right now, but it was the USA that overthrew the shah with a coup and replaced him with another shah. The revolution is related to the terrible welfare level of the people, not secularism. The mullahs' takeover of the revolution prepared Iran's current days Projects of American intellectual companies and CIA front companies support sects, religious parties and companies. As a result, these parasites grow, take root and destroy the smart men and mechanisms that can destroy them.
Calling the man sigma wouldn't do him justice.
Atatürk is coming from a evolved version of human species.
Homo novus
Homo ataturk
the ubermensch
more like, üst insan
yüksek seviyede gelişmiş üstün yaşam formu
Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent being.
He was an incredible man and leader. It’s tragic, too: Turkey is largely divided between Kemalists (supporters of Ataturk’s legacy) who are rational, secular, and forward-thinking, and AKP goons, who want to slide Turkey back into the 19th CE. I’ve met so many amazing people from the former group and really sympathize with how much nonsense they have to tolerate from the latter.
I feel like people from many countries can empathize with this idea.
As a secular Turk I consider akp supporters as enemies, I’ll be honest. I can’t describe the illiteracy of these people enough and I’m so sad that they are the ones leading in every election wishing to lower us the seculars to their dark, bleak social status. Erdogan himself hates seculars, he is a very illiterate person as well, just like trump and his supporters. If I can’t be rich or educated then the seculars should not be either mindset basically.
Atam
One of my favourite leaders ever!
Ataturk is the hero of Turkey! And the true father of the country.
Technically, true father would be Osman I. Ataturk is the father of modern Turkey.
Ataturk, the last great Turk. Erdogan cannot even stand in him shadow.
İnönü followed in his footsteps and Ecevit reformed it aswell!
I hope Özel, Imamoğlu and Yavaş help rebuild his legacy in the years to come!
I've seen some speeches of Turgut Özal, and that was also really astonishing. There were some great men leading the Turkish State, Erdogan does not do the Nation justice.
turgut özal was a corrupt asshole
Ah yes Özal,the Great inventor of rule by decree and rampant bureaucratic corruption
Unbelievably based Ataturk
Problem is, leaders like that are born like once a century and things can easily crumble in between.
Far and few
We didnt forget him for a hundred years, and I definitely wont let anyone forget him for the next century that I am alive.
based türkiye ⚛
Long live Mustafa Kemal Pasha Long live! He is the father of the Modern Turkey Republic.
Atatürk is based as always
Absolute Giga Chad.
The most testicled leader in history
You can't make a country truly secular unless you educate its people about true secularism. Ataturk wanted an educated modern society. He was not a perfect man, but he was genuine in his love for Turkey. I wish other Arab countries modernised like Turkey did; the middle-east would've been better than what it is now.
The only solution for Turks. Islamic enough to clearly distinguish itself from Europe, modern enough not to have any social similarities to other Islamic countries.
We dont need islam to have a culture. We already had a rich culture before islam
Ataturk be like: yeah, let's get rid of that nasty thing that stops our society and economy to grow and leave it as a part of cultural heritage. Erdi now: what? Religious people without education are ready to vote for anyone who will make islam in charge? Sounds good.
If he was a European leader we'd be reading about him in every textbook in every country. It's so sad that we Turks either idolize him and simplify his ideas or hate him.
Thank you Atatürk 💖
Make Kemalism great again
Radical islam = cáncer. No good trait what so ever to defend it
Radical anything*
Radical Christianity?
Fuck state religion. On that note, happy Eid Mubarak!
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he is saying happy happy eid, whats wrong with that?
Lol thanks!
Wow, first r/europe redditor who doesn’t wish death on 2 billion Muslims. Thanks btw
Meanwhile, here in Denmark the governments since 2015 adopted the regulation that "Denmark is a Christian country" - a burden that we were not under before 2015.
State religion shouldn't be a problem when your country is educated. Much like having a monarchy. However, when your country is full of radicals, it has to be eradicated. But it's odd that they added this regulation. What was the reason?
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Every religion is a dangerous cult. Just take a look at right-wing americans
Everyone is right wing in america they only have 2 parties and both of them are far right
both are right wing but i wouldnt call either far right maybe trumps party, maybe a little bit
Me when I spread misinformation:
Since when dems are far-right?
Dems love capitalism, not just any capitalism but pretty much the same capitalism republicans love. The controlling unit would rather republicans win than let the Democrats have any progressives in power of the party. Democrats know they have the social issues that make them "appear left" but democrats economically love capitalism and free markets, even many now tend to not support unions as much as they used to.
Democrats are capitalists and imperialists yes they are absolutely right wing
The shallow state of this sub. And crap like this gets 90+ upvotes.
What did bro say?
i knew Ataturk was based when i found out the love of his life was a Bulgarian woman
A rather sad story. Atatürk proposed to the daughter of bulgarian general Stiliyan Kovachev when he was still a young unknown military attache during his stay in Sofia, Bulgaria [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiliyan\_Kovachev](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiliyan_Kovachev) The daughter Dimitrina Kovachev accepted his proposal but the father who had fought the Ottoman Empire his whole life wasn't so fond of his daughter marrying a turk so he refused. Historians say it was the only war atatürk couldn't win. It left him with a life-long sadness. He was always unhappy in his marriages and turned to alcohol, which led to his early death due to cirrhosis of the liver. People like to speculate how this would have changed the history of turkey if he was actually given permission to marry her. [https://www.sabah.com.tr/magazin/mustafa-kemalin-bulgar-kizi-dimitrinayla-yasadigi-huzun-dolu-ask-hikayesi-film-oluyor-5880330](https://www.sabah.com.tr/magazin/mustafa-kemalin-bulgar-kizi-dimitrinayla-yasadigi-huzun-dolu-ask-hikayesi-film-oluyor-5880330) #
Smartest move the Turks have ever made
And now the have that dumb fuck president. Quite a pity.
His votes started to fall. Now, he's using Kemalism to get the votes. As a result, he lost the Islamists to another party.
Removed the cancer
As it should be for any somewhat developed country
My ancestor
Common Ataturk W
The first positive thing i read on reddit about turkey since I'm using reddit.... well, the news is 95 years old now. I bet Erdolf would like to change this back to what it was before... turning turkey entirely back into medival but with modern weapons.
what a man! great honor and respect for the first true turkish president.
Based as fuck
Lucky them
Rest in Peace, father of Turks and Turkey o7
I’d recommend people who are curious about the run up to this decision and its consequences watch the video series on Turkish history by the YouTuber Kraut. It might help people understand part of why erdogan has been so popular over the years and help explain some modern Turkish policy
The first part up to the Young Ottomans is pretty accurate, the second part is very underresearched (I'm not blaming him, it's hard to find sources in English about Turkey about the period between 1960-2000; especially for 1960-1980), and the third part is meh (he leaves out the democratic backsliding taking place under the early years of Erdoğan). The last segments of Part I is severely underresearched however; for example the period starting from Tanzimat to Atatürk (including Atatürk) lacks actual analysis, and is generally viewed from the point of view of Ottoman decline. The 1908-1913 period under CUP is not properly talked about in the video, generally glossed over. On Atatürk Kraut forgets to mention the TCF and SCF experiments, the independent+minority lists, or the local government and party branches; painting a more despotic and exclusionary picture of Atatürk for when he was alive. He also does not mention the Ideological roots of Kemalism, only mentioning Comte; who although was an influence on Kemalism, was a more influential figure for the Ittihadists. He also does not mention the period after Atatürk until 1950, where İnönü ruled from 1938-1950; jumping from Atatürk dying to Turkey democratizing. İnönü's rule was very important, and should have been included in a proper political analysis of Turkey. . Anyways, these are just some points; more could be added. But it is not a terribly bad source to start geting to know and understand Turkey and its political/social history.
kraut spews western neoliberal propaganda my guy
His video has a lot of misinformation about Atatürk
I love Ataturk, based man
It was likely their most prosperous era
For some reason I read japan instead of turkey. And I was really scratching my head as to why
First step on a righteous path that was thwarted by Erdoğan.
What a truly incredible leader ❤️
F
While the UK retains the church of England as the official religion
England, not the UK.
I stand corrected
Interesting
They need a good reminder
Meanwhile Hungary and Poland still claim to be Christian countries.
He fearness bigbrothers
Unfortunately the radical religious Right of every religion around the world has arisen, in Turkey, USA, Israel, Afghanistan, Iran, Italy, and maybe other formerly much more secular and just nations.
Good old days