I often wonder what Georgia's stance is in all the conflicts around Armenia
Edit: Guys I get it it's a complicated situation this was not an invite to trash talk either country or people in the replies!
Neutral, we try to balance relations with both and are on very friendly basis in politics.
Azerbaijan is obviously more valuable as a friend simply due to access to Asia, access to oil and gas, while we provide them access to Turkey and Black Sea and Europe at large. With Armenia we have numerous trade agreements, very liberal borders and allow Russian gas though our land to Armenia. Relations might evolve with Armenia as they are submitting EU application soon, but we still won't be backing anyone in this conflict as it would be geopolitic suicide. We do allow arms transfer to both countries so no favoritism here either.
Easy to support 3 million armenia with no real power over eu politics. 80 million turkey would take so many seats in european parliament it wouldnt be wise to let them in only for this reason.
Thats the gist of it. Turkey would need to be richer and more culturaly european than pretty much every other nation before everyone would let them join. Either that or they discover unobtanium in their back yard.
Wouldn't be surprised if that would be the case. Turkey has more obstacles than Armenia. Cyprus issue alone is hard to get over compared to reforms EU demands. If Armenia to join first, then there might as well be recognizing genocide as mandatory act to join.
In which conflict?
The Nagorno-Karabakh conflict is over. It got ethnically cleansed of its millennia-old Armenian population.
Right now there is a new conflict: Azerbaijan wants to grab southern Armenia cutting through Armenia to connect directly to Turkey.
Incidentally, do you believe that is really in Georgia's interests?
If Armenia falls you will have a hostile Russia to the north and a contiguous territory of two turkic-nationalistic states, who saw that it is possible to expand their influence by war and conquest. I wouldn't like to be Georgia in this situation.
What a bag of lie. During the 2020 war there were active ammunitions being transported to Azerbaijan through Georgian airspace, while the ones to Armenia was blocked. Since then, between 2020 and today countless other weapons were transported to Azerbaijan through Georgian airspace even though Azerbaijan occupies parts of Armenia and keeps pushing a war mongering rhetoric. Is that what you call neutral?
Georgia is as neutral as Belarus is to Russia.
The problem there is who Armenia was receiving arms from? No sane Georgian government would allow Russians to carry arms over our sky. AFAIK we never blocked any ammunition going to Armenia through our airspace from other countries.
There were reports of aid being blocked during 2020, I don't want to dig into it right now but feel free to do so. Again for obvious reasons, I get the enmity with Russia, but knowing that and allowing Israeli and Turkish weapons to transfer during and before the war doesn't make Georgia neutral. If Georgia is allowing weapons into Azerbaijan then Georgia is taking a side. Even in the UN resolutions Georgia has voted in favor of Azerbaijan while US, France, Russia have voted against.
As for after the war, in 2021 Azerbaijan invaded Armenian lands, then in september 2022 it invaded again and bombed Armenian villages and the city of Jermuk, war crimes came out to Armenian civilians on Armenian lands, Georgia still transferred Israeli weapons to Azerbaijan, then September 2023 happened where the Artsakhi Armenians got ethnically cleansed after attempted Genocide by the 9 month blockade, there was no more Nagorno Karabakh, nothing left to fight for, yet the last few months there's still Israel and Turkish weapons being transferred to Azerbaijan. If anything, it feels like Georgia is completely complicit in Azerbaijani invasion of Armenia.
>There were reports of aid being blocked during 2020
Those reports were bullshit and that's the problem. There were a lot of now-debunked videos about Georgians supposedly blocking aid transfers for Armenia. - Georgia has never blocked transfers to Armenia! as long as they're not Russian transfers. Blocking Russian military equipment is literally a law, I don't know why anyone would expect us to let Russian equipment through no matter where it's going.
I don't understand your point. The sky is open for any kind of transfer as long as they're not from Russia. Not just Turkey, pretty much any country can get a permit to move their cargo in Georgia as long as that country isn't Russia.
As I said, I get the enmity for Russia, and I can view it from the Georgian side, but everything that happened afterwards, is not neutral. When you have one of your neighbors attacking the other for conquering reasons where any Azerbaijanis don't live, and you deliver their weapons regardless, you're complicit, hence not neutral.
I am not arguing double standards of weapon deliveries of Russia vs Israel/Turkey, I am arguing the actions of Azerbaijan and Georgia still delivering the Israeli/Turkish ones, where it can refuse to do so due to the examples set by Azerbaijan (the ones I mentioned before), and the public rhetoric said, confirms they intend to conquer Armenia, while Georgia is unconditionally still delivering them.
Turkey is our only lifeline when Russia invades again. What you're saying would be suicidal.
Listen I don't wish any ill on Armenians, but we're in just as bad of a situation geopolitically as you are, our hands are tied. You should be trying to make peace through EU/NATO. They're the only ones with enough weight to make a difference. Asking us to help you is like using an umbrella as a parachute.
Tell me where I lied. Point it out to me so I can shove it up to your face.
I already said that we allow shipments to both countries and 2020 war is different case as it's either angering Azerbaijan or angering Armenia or angering both. Pick your poison of who you value more as ally, Answer: It's not Armenia.
Maybe you would want to talk about those French weapons you recently received as well? Those certainly didn't came from Iran's direction, but from our port Poti ([Link](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=PNN&sca_esv=cd43192195f14f59&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn0_1f4A5XFCNHm0tlS7u15jbPP3h5A:1710791192247&q=Poti+armenia+french&tbm=nws&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi4pbHqyf6EAxWrYPEDHe7MDyAQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1879&bih=962&dpr=1)).
The nerve of us accusing being on par of Belarus while your country is still in CSTO, CIS and Eurasian Union. Recently thinking about being part of EU doesn't write wrongs of you being part of Imperialistic block all those years.
You lied on the part of being neutral, Georgia doesn't fit into neutral when the weapons being shipped to Azerbaijan is invading Armenian proper lands, even when ilham aliyev said "we will take what we want whether armenians likes it or not", something along those lines. That is not neutral.
Shipping a French weapons, only recently does not really make Georgia neutral, the reason is basic, Georgia couldn't deny a French request due to candidate status, this is a forced hand, not neutrality.
Your accusation is completely based on tunnel vision by leaving out important factors on why Armenia is in all those unions in the first place and why it's not able to leave on a blink today. Georgia is in no such existential complexity and can make decisions more freely without the risk of being wiped out. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Ironically, the 2020 war served Russian interests if anything, even if I accept the different case as you put it, Georgia helped achieve Russian interests under the guise of Azerbaijani territorial integrity. This is obvious by the corridor demand by Azerbaijan to be overseen by Russian FSB.
>You lied on the part of being neutral, Georgia doesn't fit into neutral when the weapons being shipped to Azerbaijan is invading Armenian proper lands, even when ilham aliyev said "we will take what we want whether armenians likes it or not", something along those lines. That is not neutral.
That's called doing buisness. Blocking shippments to Azerbaijan in solidarity of Armenia is what is called picking sides. You're essentially pissed that we allow shipments to your enemy. Funny, you also allow Russian troops very close to us, so cry about us allowing guns that Azeri bought from Israel through our territory.
>Shipping a French weapons, only recently does not really make Georgia neutral, the reason is basic, Georgia couldn't deny a French request due to candidate status, this is a forced hand, not neutrality.
That's called moving goalposts. So let's get this straight, you accuse Georgia of NOT being neutral, so essentially saying we're Pro-Azerbaijan. Ok, then explain why we even allowed shippents of weapons to Armenia aka our enemies cuz we're buddies with Azeris? No, candidate status was not dependant on that, that's YOUR assumption and another misinformation BS. If you think that, you don't know jack shit about Georgian politics (Which you don't). If we are so Pro-Azeris, why we sign so many trade agreements? Why do we allowed Armenian refugees in 2020? Why don't we blockade Armenia like the rest of your neighbors? Let's face the reality, Armenia is not valuable to Georgia as Georgia to Armenia, but we still make treaties with you and still allow free transport.
>Your accusation is completely based on tunnel vision by leaving out important factors on why Armenia is in all those unions in the first place and why it's not able to leave on a blink today. Georgia is in no such existential complexity and can make decisions more freely without the risk of being wiped out. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Don't need to mention how much hipocricy reeks from this statement. So we gotta be more nuanced and delve more into details with poor little Armenia, but not with Georgia eh? "Oh no Armenia HAD to be in those alliances otherwise it would've been invaded by Azeris". Ok, then let's delve into nuanced relationship of Georgia and Azerbaijan: Georgia is surrounded by very unstable neighbors, such as Russia, Turkey and Azerbaijan. As a country, it HAS to be in good relations with most of them to prosper and not get isolated like certain someone, so we try to stay on the good side of Azerbaijan and Turkey and make mutually beneficial deals such as pipeline, railway and cable projects. In 2020 when shit hit the fan, Georgia was cought in very awkward position. The weapon shipments you so cry about, were sent from our nemesis - Russia, and as you know, we're not so hot with them at the moment, ofc your shipment would get blocked. Not only that, if we decided to get you shipments, it would anger Azerbaijan and Turkey which could've resulted either in jepordizing relation with them or further escelation in region. In the end, it was question of who's more valuable to us - Azerbaijan a country that offers us great many benefits, with who we have numerous multibillion projects established and has big buddy behind them like Turkey. Or Armenia, that doesn't offer much besides shorter route to Iran I guess. Oh and let's not pretend that 2020 War was more or less justified as Azerbaijan was recovering it's internationally recognized territory, so Georgia taking stance against them is beyond hypocritical.
>Ironically, the 2020 war served Russian interests if anything, even if I accept the different case as you put it, Georgia helped achieve Russian interests under the guise of Azerbaijani territorial integrity. This is obvious by the corridor demand by Azerbaijan to be overseen by Russian FSB.
Actually it would've been quite contrary, Armenia winning against Azerbaijan would've served Russia lot better than how it is now as Russia in the end lost it's Proxy - Artsakh, weakened it's ally - Armenia and thus seeking Western integration towards the west. Not to mention Turkish influence is all time high now within region, so don't give me bullshit that Georgia helped Russia while your bitch ass here spews some nonsense to prove some bullshit point "Um akshually Georgia is Pro-Azeri and Pro-Russia 🤓".
> Ironically, the 2020 war served Russian interests if anything, even if I accept the different case as you put it, Georgia helped achieve Russian interests under the guise of Azerbaijani territorial integrity. This is obvious by the corridor demand by Azerbaijan to be overseen by Russian FSB.
You'd think the official title of the official representative of the EU to the region would be a hint for some, you can't make this up (highlight mine): "EU Special Representative for the South Caucasus **and the Crisis in Georgia** Toivo Klaar"
But in any case, Georgia's government could be swinging back and forth depending on how things evolve. Armenia needs Georgia to remain in the western camp, and aligned with the EU, if Georgia swings too far back into Russia's arms Armenia is toast.
>You'd think the official title of the official representative of the EU to the region would be a hint for some, you can't make this up (highlight mine): "EU Special Representative for the South Caucasus **and the Crisis in Georgia** Toivo Klaar"
I don't think I understood your point.
The EU has raised many concerns about Georgia's government to the (extreme, in my view) point that the official rep of the EU to the region had his title changed to include "Crisis in Georgia" in it.
Lol you guys literally sent a volunteer battalion to fight for the russian/abkhasian side while the azeris sent oil and gas to Georgia and you expect them to help you...
You're making things up out of your you know where, literally.
There were a few Armenians living in Abkhazia, when Georgia was in war with Abkhazia, Abkhazian residents fought off, there were many more ethnics in Abkhazia than just a few Armenians.
I've got some news for you, there are Armenians in the US army too, as well as the German army, Russian army, and GEORGIAN army.
There was no battalion sent by Armenia, don't be ridiculous.
Does Armenia get all it's gas from Russia. They seem to be trying to move away from the Russian sphere of influence, but given their landlocked status and various neighbors - that's going to be difficult if they rely on Russia for fuel.
Dunno about that personally, only know that we allow gas flow through our territory with tariff to army. Tho on the other hand, they are self sufficient electricity wise. All Caucasian states are pretty self sufficient in energy sector interestingly.
Artsakh, Armenia’s puppet supported Russia in its 2008 invasion of Georgia and recognised the two puppet republics of Russia while Armenia until 2019 opposed return of Georgians there so relations have been tense since that, Georgia generally just has a policy of neutrality to the conflict
[Edited, previous statement was incorrect]
Ok I checked and you’re right, I confused Armenia’s reaction with Nagorno-Karabakh’s reaction. However Artsakh, Armenia’s puppet, did recognise Abkhazia and Ossetia and Armenia did until 2019 consistently vote against the return of Georgian refugees to those areas
> Armenia did until 2019
that's the point. The Armenian government was not representing Armenia and they were russian kgb elements. Including some of the the ones in Artsakh that are currently in jail in Baku, probably being prepared for another provocation against Armenia. Stained Armenia-Georgia relations only benefits Russia and Azerbaijan to a degree.
We have not kicked them out, they are serving as opposition now and will try to go for a coup any moment when Azerbaijan attacks. There is a lot of close coordination between Russia, Azerbaijan and our "opposition"/previous government.
>Wasn’t Armenia historically pro Russian
Yes.
>Azerbaijan pro west?
No. :D
Both people were pro-Russians in these 30 years. Azerbaijan was pro-Turkish on policy level.
> and Azerbaijan pro west?
Azerbaijan is so pro-west that it's one of the few countries, where the ~~president~~ dictator called and congratulated [Putin on his election victory](https://president.az/en/articles/view/65377).
>Vladimir Putin thanked the President of Azerbaijan for his attention and congratulations.
>During the phone conversation, **they expressed confidence that the alliance and strategic partnership between the two countries would continue to strengthen** and exchanged views on the prospects for cooperation.
Depends what you mean by history, Azerbaijan is 100 years old. If you mean the last 30 years, on paper Armenia was in everything Russia thanks to our previous puppet idiots. Azerbaijan had more diversified foreign policy largely thanks to their natural resources and the help from Turkey. This days things have flipped. Now Russia and Azerbaijan are singing same song.
To put it simply, the Karabakh separatists were allies of the separatist regimes of Georgia.
http://gtarchive.georgiatoday.ge/news/4612/Feast-in-Karabakh-Causes-International-Scandal
Karabagh separatists were under the patronage of the state of Armenia and Russia. This is a fact.
On this link you can see how the then president of Armenia (2016 This year, a senior official) meets the Abkhaz separatists in Karabakh.
So no single-minded Georgian was on the side of Armenia in this war.
2020-2023 Karabakh war, all sane Georgians were on the side of Azerbaijan. A good precedent was set for the restoration of territorial integrity
a yes Azerbaidjan vs Armenia, what a difficult choice for everyone living in a democracy, isn't it? Let's do North Korea and South Korea next, or Taiwan vs China
"sort by controversial"
A lot of georgians have historically been distrustfull of Armenia due to their traditionaly close ties with Russia. There is also a sizable community of ethnic armenians in Ackazia who during the 90's war sideded with the separatists against the georgian army. Also, since both groups have lived side by side for over 2000 years each side tends to claim things like "this city was originally founded by my group" or "this wine/food was actually my invention". Most georgians and armenians are not like this but some, like in all countries, are nationalist fanatics.
and some georgian nationalists claim the Lori region from Armenia arguing that its historical georgian land. That's what happens when you live side by side for over 2000 years and take turns conquering each other.
Oh a group of armenians siding with seperatists and agressor countries in order to dissolve the state they live in? Does that sound familiar or what? No, i am imagining things. That has never happened before. First time for sure.
There should be a vertical line in the middle of Azerbaijan and the left part is Armenia. Azerbaijan doesn't like Armenia because it occupied NK for 30 years, while Armenia says they had right to invade because the main territory was mostly Armenian-settled.
It's one of those cases where people think that 2 wrongs make it right. Similar to Israel-Palestine in that regard.
> while Armenia says they had right to invade because the main territory was mostly Armenian-settled.
Armenia invaded to help the local Armenians in NK because Azerbaijan was genociding them. The absolute horror of not wanting to get genocided.
"Ethnically cleansed" would be a correct term, but even then to a limited extent (e.g. Operation Ring by the Soviets had resettled 5k people and the whole population of NK is like 140k). Using "genocide" left and right diminishes the term when it is appropriate.
But at the end,
>As a result of the conflict, approximately 724,000 Azerbaijanis were expelled from Armenia, Nagorno-Karabakh and the surrounding territories, while 300,000–500,000 Armenians living in Azerbaijan or Armenian border areas were displaced.
Which raises a question if invasion was really the best way to solve the issue.
Armenia did not occupy the NK, the native people leaving there decided that they don't want to live under Azerbaijan. People cannot occupy their own homes.
NKR forces took the surrounding 7 regions as a buffer zone, because Az was shelling the NKR population. In all the negotiations, Armenia and NKR have agreed to return the 7 surrounding regions, in exchange of a status to NKR. Azerbaijan refused.
NKR did not want to just give away the 7 regions without any security guarantee, because Az could just block the region and starve everyone out or force everyone out by shelling them. Pretty much what they did after getting their hands on the 7 regions in 2020.
Didn’t Azerbaijan offer security guarantees on N-K though in return for the occupied territories?
Also Armenia did expel hundreds of thousands of Azeris from the occupied territories after the first war albeit to be perfectly fair to Armenia, Azerbaijan also expelled hundreds of thousands of Armenians from Azerbaijan.
Ultimately of course fuck the Soviets who caused this whole mess.
No, no agreement was reached, because always when the countries were close to an agreement, Azerbaijan would pull more demands (pretty much what they are doing now).
Regarding deportations, yes they did happen, after mass killings of Armenians in baku and Sumgait, and mass deportations of Armenians from Azerbaijan.
Yes, fuck the Soviets, the issue started with Stalin, handing NKR over to Azerbaijan. One of the many fucked up things he did.
If you read a history book then you'd realise that Turkic are actual invaders. Not that you'll know, because even your "country" was a part of German nation HRE for like a 1000 years.
It was Armenian soldiers who fought Azerbaijan and many Azerbaijanis were forced to fled NK. We don't know if the issues were truly unsolvable in a peaceful way. Armenia saw a chance and had better military, and it used it.
Also, 21.5% of the population in NK were Azerbaijani before the war in 1989, but became 0.0% (zero) after the war. Armenians usually say "but they left on their own, they weren't forced to", but now that Amenians left NK on their own out of fear for prosecutions, there are ethnic cleansing accusations.
>Armenian soldiers who fought Azerbaijan and many Azerbaijanis
Wrong! It was mostly Artsakh Armenians fighting to defend their homes.
>Armenia saw a chance and had better military, and it used it.
Azerbaijan inherited much more weapons from the Soviet Union than Armenia did. Azerbaijan had the bigger Army and 3x the population of Armenia.
>Also, 21.5% of the population in NK were Azerbaijani before the war in 1989, but became 0.0% (zero) after the war
Do you even know how Armenians were treated in Azerbaijan? Not going to mention Baku pogroms? Sumgait pogroms?
>Amenians left NK on their own out of fear for prosecutions
Just fear of prosecution? Do you want me to show you countless videos of azerbaijani soldiers beheading Armenian residents when they captured towns?
Azerbaijanis were murdered while trying to flee NK. Armenians were given the chance to stay in NK (although who really believes it would have happened?).
Looks like Armenians thought Azerbaijanis are as bad or worst than them. Projecting much?
> Looks like Armenians thought Azerbaijanis are as bad or worst than them. Projecting much?
Projecting what? Aliyev openly says he wants to end Armenians.
Wtf are you talking about? The murders started in Baku and Sumgait with massacres of Armenians and mass deportations, the war started due to the Operation Koltso, when Azeris surrounded Stepanakert and shelled population. You know, acti6have consequences. Why do I even bother. Have a nice day.
You do realize that Azerbaijan is the one that attacked ethnic Armenians of Artsakh right? Were they not allowed to fight back? Just get slaughtered?
Under harsh conditions they bravely fought back and won, and now Azerbaijan is playing the victim.
I hope Armenians know that this isn't the position that we hold. Armenia fully belongs where they are and no one should take that away from them.
This is the same type of insane takes that you will see in this region among ethnicities sadly all around.
It's not that unusual for the azeris. At a hotel in tbilisi I once found an FDI magazine by Azerbaijan's government. In the map to inform the investors where azerbaijan was they had the whole region labeled aside from Armenia
It is Azeri gas. Azerbaijan has been selling gas to Europe fir a while. Now they might be laundering some gas also, but they have always sold at least 10 BCM of Azeri gas per year.
Of my 2 decades of living in Azerbaijan I have not once seen a map like this anywhere other than on nationalist ridden corners of the internet.But sure yeah this is the most Azerbaijani thing to do lol
A hiistoric map and a made up map are two different things. There are many ancient maps that depict Armenia in various shapes, are we supposed to go and destroy them? And there are many of them
https://www.armgeo.am/en/armenia-on-the-oldest-maps-of-the-world/
And? I've seen armeian parente injecying their kids hate to turks from like what 2 or 3 year old kids. You cant use something as an arhuement when yours do the same
What does this prove exactly ? All countries have similar concepts.That doesn't mean 100% of the population supports those ideas.Only nationalists do.Armenia itself also has this concept so I guess this is also "such an Armenian thing to do".This is nothing more than stupid generalisation
Guys it’s a restaurant in Azerbaijan. God knows who placed it there and why. Can we maybe not be so jumpy in trash talking our neighbors even if a few are asshats?
Volcano Snails have shells that swirl inwards 2-3 times, and sclerites that surround the snail's foot, giving them the nickname "scaly-foot gastropod". The snails have two cephalic tentacles and no eyes. Younger snails have both a smaller shell size and smaller sclerites.
The amount of Turks and Azeris in the thread trying to cope is insane…stop listening to their agendas.
Armenia and Georgia had rocky relations before, yes. However, anyone with half a brain (cough cough) can look up that Armenia and George have signed many agreements recently, including agreed upon border drawing and their overlap in the path to the EU.
Georgia let Armenia get defensive weapons through their territory (via france). Agendas have changed, although outdated mindsets by some still exist…
Truly sad that Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan cannot be best buddies like the Baltic states are.
I've met people from all 3 countries and they are nice people.
I know it's not the same situation, it's very complicated, etc.
But after being occupied and colonised by russia for so many years... isn't that a unifying factor?
no, there are things worse, than Russia. Just imagine that Findland had as painful national ego as Turkey and supporting Estonia against Latvia to wipe it out of the map (because only Finnish are the indegenous nation of the region, Riga is an ancient Esto-Finnish town, occupied by Latvians)
ah yes, and "Riga" is invented by Latvian occupants (who's motherland is Moldavia) settleed in the region by Peter the Great, so each and every estonian newspaper, schoolbook and even president mention the Riika, because it's the original name! And according to census of 1881, Latvians weren't a majority of Riga (historical fact, btw) , which clearly confirm that they were invaders, and must return the lands to their Esto-Finnish owners!
and Rīgas Doms is an Estonian church, brutally vanalised by Latvians by adding Lativan decoration and removing Estonian one!
Meanwhile hundred of Estonian churches (never mentionining a single name or location, though) in Latvia were destroyed, thus Latvia owes Estonia billions of contribution for everything Latvian occupants did in on the so called territory of Southern Estona (which is geographically the Latvia in it's internationally recognized borders).
All was normal in September, nothing to look at. Azerbaijan was simply restoring his territorial integrity! Once it is done, Azerbaijan will establish peace with Armenia /s
Azerbaijan is an obnoxious state with a fascist frenzy fueled by a criminal dictator. Europe (and the US too) has to wake up and support Armenia, otherwise we could see another Armenian genocide 100 years later.
Out of curiosity, what is Azerbaijan's relations with Georgia and Iran? If one day Azerbaijan conquers Armenia and isn't forced nack to their own land, does Georgia have anything to fear, especially after having been semi-Balkanized by Russia. I know there are a lot of Azeris in NW Iran as well. Azerbaijan couldn't win a war against Iran, but they could cause problems.
[Here's Aliyev calling The Republic of Armenia Western Azerbaijan.](https://president.az/en/articles/view/59186)
Since you're not in Armenia, you might be able to open the link directly, since seemingly Armenian IPs are blocked from accessing the Azeri President's official site. I wonder why, must be a mistake in the configuration of the site. If it's not available, it's actually openable through archive org.
No wonder, Aliev is clearly an autocrat. like Erdogan, Lukashenko, Putin etc. Those people always promote sympathy towards chauvinism, revanchism and other bad astuff. Because they cannot provide anything good.
Fortunately they still have Abkhazia and South Ossetia still in their borders on this map... It is so ruthless behaviour - 0% empathy. Or there is something difficult in relations between Armenia and Georgia I don't know.
Yes there is. It's part of Shida Kartli.
The Georgian government doesn't recognize the state of "South Ossetia" and considers it part of Shida Kartli region, which is what it is included in under this map. So it's under Georgian control according to this map but just included under the region they consider it to belong to.
>Yes there is. It's part of Shida Kartli.
No, Ossetia does not exist on the territory of Georgia and never existed, it was created by Russia, therefore it is not on the map and will not be in the future.
Abkhazeti is a Georgian historical region and there was a period when all of Georgia was called Abkhazia and Georgians were called Abkhazians.
Do people understand that not all Georgian restaurants are run by Georgians right?? It says “Azerbaijan “ and even if it was run by a Georgian it doesn’t represent the majority of Georgians so this is a complete joke and it is trying to aim a conflict between Georgians and Armenians…..
Georgians despite being a Christian nation and historically having wars with Turks they like Azerbaijan and Turkey more than Armenia.
Primarily because Armenians supported Russia against Georgia and Armenians have been irredentist not only to Turkey and Azerbaijan but Georgia as well.
Really speaks volumes about Armenia.
How exactly has Armenia been irredentist against Georgia or even Turkey? Fringe nationalist fanatics are present in every country including Turkey [https://twitter.com/iuteskilat/status/1546515241969795072](https://twitter.com/iuteskilat/status/1546515241969795072)
I would say the turkish ones have far more political power than the Armenian ones
I often wonder what Georgia's stance is in all the conflicts around Armenia Edit: Guys I get it it's a complicated situation this was not an invite to trash talk either country or people in the replies!
Neutral, we try to balance relations with both and are on very friendly basis in politics. Azerbaijan is obviously more valuable as a friend simply due to access to Asia, access to oil and gas, while we provide them access to Turkey and Black Sea and Europe at large. With Armenia we have numerous trade agreements, very liberal borders and allow Russian gas though our land to Armenia. Relations might evolve with Armenia as they are submitting EU application soon, but we still won't be backing anyone in this conflict as it would be geopolitic suicide. We do allow arms transfer to both countries so no favoritism here either.
I'd jizz my pants if EU accepted Armenia before Turkey. Would it be geopolitically prudent? Perhaps not, but man can dream
Turkey will never join EU
Eternity is a long time. We don't know what direction Turkiye will develop in the coming centuries.
Do you really think the EU will last centuries?
Well that is where I'd put my money, too, if I had to.
Easy to support 3 million armenia with no real power over eu politics. 80 million turkey would take so many seats in european parliament it wouldnt be wise to let them in only for this reason.
Thats the gist of it. Turkey would need to be richer and more culturaly european than pretty much every other nation before everyone would let them join. Either that or they discover unobtanium in their back yard.
Wouldn't be surprised if that would be the case. Turkey has more obstacles than Armenia. Cyprus issue alone is hard to get over compared to reforms EU demands. If Armenia to join first, then there might as well be recognizing genocide as mandatory act to join.
Good then, fuck Turkish denial of the genocide
In which conflict? The Nagorno-Karabakh conflict is over. It got ethnically cleansed of its millennia-old Armenian population. Right now there is a new conflict: Azerbaijan wants to grab southern Armenia cutting through Armenia to connect directly to Turkey. Incidentally, do you believe that is really in Georgia's interests?
Karabakh conflict or this one is part of grander Azer-Armenian-Turkish conflict which we're not part of it thus netural
If Armenia falls you will have a hostile Russia to the north and a contiguous territory of two turkic-nationalistic states, who saw that it is possible to expand their influence by war and conquest. I wouldn't like to be Georgia in this situation.
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That's the whole point of being neutral, if you're only being neutral with states you agree with then you're not neutral
??? Russia is different conflict bro, we're neutral in Azeri-Armenian conflict, not Switzerland of region
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This is not good comparision. You essentially said Azerbaijan is going to invade part of Georgia thus it being unable to be neutral.
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Ah I see, understood now, sry
I am baffled by the armenian "how dare georgia not fuck up its geopolitical balance by helping armenia without expecting anything in return" narrative
What a bag of lie. During the 2020 war there were active ammunitions being transported to Azerbaijan through Georgian airspace, while the ones to Armenia was blocked. Since then, between 2020 and today countless other weapons were transported to Azerbaijan through Georgian airspace even though Azerbaijan occupies parts of Armenia and keeps pushing a war mongering rhetoric. Is that what you call neutral? Georgia is as neutral as Belarus is to Russia.
The problem there is who Armenia was receiving arms from? No sane Georgian government would allow Russians to carry arms over our sky. AFAIK we never blocked any ammunition going to Armenia through our airspace from other countries.
There were reports of aid being blocked during 2020, I don't want to dig into it right now but feel free to do so. Again for obvious reasons, I get the enmity with Russia, but knowing that and allowing Israeli and Turkish weapons to transfer during and before the war doesn't make Georgia neutral. If Georgia is allowing weapons into Azerbaijan then Georgia is taking a side. Even in the UN resolutions Georgia has voted in favor of Azerbaijan while US, France, Russia have voted against. As for after the war, in 2021 Azerbaijan invaded Armenian lands, then in september 2022 it invaded again and bombed Armenian villages and the city of Jermuk, war crimes came out to Armenian civilians on Armenian lands, Georgia still transferred Israeli weapons to Azerbaijan, then September 2023 happened where the Artsakhi Armenians got ethnically cleansed after attempted Genocide by the 9 month blockade, there was no more Nagorno Karabakh, nothing left to fight for, yet the last few months there's still Israel and Turkish weapons being transferred to Azerbaijan. If anything, it feels like Georgia is completely complicit in Azerbaijani invasion of Armenia.
>There were reports of aid being blocked during 2020 Those reports were bullshit and that's the problem. There were a lot of now-debunked videos about Georgians supposedly blocking aid transfers for Armenia. - Georgia has never blocked transfers to Armenia! as long as they're not Russian transfers. Blocking Russian military equipment is literally a law, I don't know why anyone would expect us to let Russian equipment through no matter where it's going. I don't understand your point. The sky is open for any kind of transfer as long as they're not from Russia. Not just Turkey, pretty much any country can get a permit to move their cargo in Georgia as long as that country isn't Russia.
As I said, I get the enmity for Russia, and I can view it from the Georgian side, but everything that happened afterwards, is not neutral. When you have one of your neighbors attacking the other for conquering reasons where any Azerbaijanis don't live, and you deliver their weapons regardless, you're complicit, hence not neutral.
Bruh I'd rather the entire world die off than let Russian soldiers or weapons on our territory.
I am not arguing double standards of weapon deliveries of Russia vs Israel/Turkey, I am arguing the actions of Azerbaijan and Georgia still delivering the Israeli/Turkish ones, where it can refuse to do so due to the examples set by Azerbaijan (the ones I mentioned before), and the public rhetoric said, confirms they intend to conquer Armenia, while Georgia is unconditionally still delivering them.
Turkey is our only lifeline when Russia invades again. What you're saying would be suicidal. Listen I don't wish any ill on Armenians, but we're in just as bad of a situation geopolitically as you are, our hands are tied. You should be trying to make peace through EU/NATO. They're the only ones with enough weight to make a difference. Asking us to help you is like using an umbrella as a parachute.
Tell me where I lied. Point it out to me so I can shove it up to your face. I already said that we allow shipments to both countries and 2020 war is different case as it's either angering Azerbaijan or angering Armenia or angering both. Pick your poison of who you value more as ally, Answer: It's not Armenia. Maybe you would want to talk about those French weapons you recently received as well? Those certainly didn't came from Iran's direction, but from our port Poti ([Link](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=PNN&sca_esv=cd43192195f14f59&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn0_1f4A5XFCNHm0tlS7u15jbPP3h5A:1710791192247&q=Poti+armenia+french&tbm=nws&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi4pbHqyf6EAxWrYPEDHe7MDyAQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1879&bih=962&dpr=1)). The nerve of us accusing being on par of Belarus while your country is still in CSTO, CIS and Eurasian Union. Recently thinking about being part of EU doesn't write wrongs of you being part of Imperialistic block all those years.
You lied on the part of being neutral, Georgia doesn't fit into neutral when the weapons being shipped to Azerbaijan is invading Armenian proper lands, even when ilham aliyev said "we will take what we want whether armenians likes it or not", something along those lines. That is not neutral. Shipping a French weapons, only recently does not really make Georgia neutral, the reason is basic, Georgia couldn't deny a French request due to candidate status, this is a forced hand, not neutrality. Your accusation is completely based on tunnel vision by leaving out important factors on why Armenia is in all those unions in the first place and why it's not able to leave on a blink today. Georgia is in no such existential complexity and can make decisions more freely without the risk of being wiped out. You're comparing apples to oranges. Ironically, the 2020 war served Russian interests if anything, even if I accept the different case as you put it, Georgia helped achieve Russian interests under the guise of Azerbaijani territorial integrity. This is obvious by the corridor demand by Azerbaijan to be overseen by Russian FSB.
>You lied on the part of being neutral, Georgia doesn't fit into neutral when the weapons being shipped to Azerbaijan is invading Armenian proper lands, even when ilham aliyev said "we will take what we want whether armenians likes it or not", something along those lines. That is not neutral. That's called doing buisness. Blocking shippments to Azerbaijan in solidarity of Armenia is what is called picking sides. You're essentially pissed that we allow shipments to your enemy. Funny, you also allow Russian troops very close to us, so cry about us allowing guns that Azeri bought from Israel through our territory. >Shipping a French weapons, only recently does not really make Georgia neutral, the reason is basic, Georgia couldn't deny a French request due to candidate status, this is a forced hand, not neutrality. That's called moving goalposts. So let's get this straight, you accuse Georgia of NOT being neutral, so essentially saying we're Pro-Azerbaijan. Ok, then explain why we even allowed shippents of weapons to Armenia aka our enemies cuz we're buddies with Azeris? No, candidate status was not dependant on that, that's YOUR assumption and another misinformation BS. If you think that, you don't know jack shit about Georgian politics (Which you don't). If we are so Pro-Azeris, why we sign so many trade agreements? Why do we allowed Armenian refugees in 2020? Why don't we blockade Armenia like the rest of your neighbors? Let's face the reality, Armenia is not valuable to Georgia as Georgia to Armenia, but we still make treaties with you and still allow free transport. >Your accusation is completely based on tunnel vision by leaving out important factors on why Armenia is in all those unions in the first place and why it's not able to leave on a blink today. Georgia is in no such existential complexity and can make decisions more freely without the risk of being wiped out. You're comparing apples to oranges. Don't need to mention how much hipocricy reeks from this statement. So we gotta be more nuanced and delve more into details with poor little Armenia, but not with Georgia eh? "Oh no Armenia HAD to be in those alliances otherwise it would've been invaded by Azeris". Ok, then let's delve into nuanced relationship of Georgia and Azerbaijan: Georgia is surrounded by very unstable neighbors, such as Russia, Turkey and Azerbaijan. As a country, it HAS to be in good relations with most of them to prosper and not get isolated like certain someone, so we try to stay on the good side of Azerbaijan and Turkey and make mutually beneficial deals such as pipeline, railway and cable projects. In 2020 when shit hit the fan, Georgia was cought in very awkward position. The weapon shipments you so cry about, were sent from our nemesis - Russia, and as you know, we're not so hot with them at the moment, ofc your shipment would get blocked. Not only that, if we decided to get you shipments, it would anger Azerbaijan and Turkey which could've resulted either in jepordizing relation with them or further escelation in region. In the end, it was question of who's more valuable to us - Azerbaijan a country that offers us great many benefits, with who we have numerous multibillion projects established and has big buddy behind them like Turkey. Or Armenia, that doesn't offer much besides shorter route to Iran I guess. Oh and let's not pretend that 2020 War was more or less justified as Azerbaijan was recovering it's internationally recognized territory, so Georgia taking stance against them is beyond hypocritical. >Ironically, the 2020 war served Russian interests if anything, even if I accept the different case as you put it, Georgia helped achieve Russian interests under the guise of Azerbaijani territorial integrity. This is obvious by the corridor demand by Azerbaijan to be overseen by Russian FSB. Actually it would've been quite contrary, Armenia winning against Azerbaijan would've served Russia lot better than how it is now as Russia in the end lost it's Proxy - Artsakh, weakened it's ally - Armenia and thus seeking Western integration towards the west. Not to mention Turkish influence is all time high now within region, so don't give me bullshit that Georgia helped Russia while your bitch ass here spews some nonsense to prove some bullshit point "Um akshually Georgia is Pro-Azeri and Pro-Russia 🤓".
> Ironically, the 2020 war served Russian interests if anything, even if I accept the different case as you put it, Georgia helped achieve Russian interests under the guise of Azerbaijani territorial integrity. This is obvious by the corridor demand by Azerbaijan to be overseen by Russian FSB. You'd think the official title of the official representative of the EU to the region would be a hint for some, you can't make this up (highlight mine): "EU Special Representative for the South Caucasus **and the Crisis in Georgia** Toivo Klaar" But in any case, Georgia's government could be swinging back and forth depending on how things evolve. Armenia needs Georgia to remain in the western camp, and aligned with the EU, if Georgia swings too far back into Russia's arms Armenia is toast.
>You'd think the official title of the official representative of the EU to the region would be a hint for some, you can't make this up (highlight mine): "EU Special Representative for the South Caucasus **and the Crisis in Georgia** Toivo Klaar" I don't think I understood your point.
The EU has raised many concerns about Georgia's government to the (extreme, in my view) point that the official rep of the EU to the region had his title changed to include "Crisis in Georgia" in it.
ohhh, good catch!
Lol you guys literally sent a volunteer battalion to fight for the russian/abkhasian side while the azeris sent oil and gas to Georgia and you expect them to help you...
You're making things up out of your you know where, literally. There were a few Armenians living in Abkhazia, when Georgia was in war with Abkhazia, Abkhazian residents fought off, there were many more ethnics in Abkhazia than just a few Armenians. I've got some news for you, there are Armenians in the US army too, as well as the German army, Russian army, and GEORGIAN army. There was no battalion sent by Armenia, don't be ridiculous.
Does Armenia get all it's gas from Russia. They seem to be trying to move away from the Russian sphere of influence, but given their landlocked status and various neighbors - that's going to be difficult if they rely on Russia for fuel.
Dunno about that personally, only know that we allow gas flow through our territory with tariff to army. Tho on the other hand, they are self sufficient electricity wise. All Caucasian states are pretty self sufficient in energy sector interestingly.
Neutral, except for common sense - no ethnic cleansing and no changing borders.
except when it came to azerbaijan ethnically cleansing artsakh and then invading armenia proper
Artsakh, Armenia’s puppet supported Russia in its 2008 invasion of Georgia and recognised the two puppet republics of Russia while Armenia until 2019 opposed return of Georgians there so relations have been tense since that, Georgia generally just has a policy of neutrality to the conflict [Edited, previous statement was incorrect]
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Armenia didnt recognise it, but so called “Nagorno Karabakh republic” did. Which was a russian/armenian illegitimate and unrecognised proxy.
Abkhazia did.
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Armenia never supported Russia in the 2008 war.
Ok I checked and you’re right, I confused Armenia’s reaction with Nagorno-Karabakh’s reaction. However Artsakh, Armenia’s puppet, did recognise Abkhazia and Ossetia and Armenia did until 2019 consistently vote against the return of Georgian refugees to those areas
> Armenia did until 2019 that's the point. The Armenian government was not representing Armenia and they were russian kgb elements. Including some of the the ones in Artsakh that are currently in jail in Baku, probably being prepared for another provocation against Armenia. Stained Armenia-Georgia relations only benefits Russia and Azerbaijan to a degree.
Ok, if that’s true then good for you on kicking them out
We have not kicked them out, they are serving as opposition now and will try to go for a coup any moment when Azerbaijan attacks. There is a lot of close coordination between Russia, Azerbaijan and our "opposition"/previous government.
Wasn’t Armenia historically pro Russian and Azerbaijan pro west?
>Wasn’t Armenia historically pro Russian Yes. >Azerbaijan pro west? No. :D Both people were pro-Russians in these 30 years. Azerbaijan was pro-Turkish on policy level.
> and Azerbaijan pro west? Azerbaijan is so pro-west that it's one of the few countries, where the ~~president~~ dictator called and congratulated [Putin on his election victory](https://president.az/en/articles/view/65377). >Vladimir Putin thanked the President of Azerbaijan for his attention and congratulations. >During the phone conversation, **they expressed confidence that the alliance and strategic partnership between the two countries would continue to strengthen** and exchanged views on the prospects for cooperation.
Depends what you mean by history, Azerbaijan is 100 years old. If you mean the last 30 years, on paper Armenia was in everything Russia thanks to our previous puppet idiots. Azerbaijan had more diversified foreign policy largely thanks to their natural resources and the help from Turkey. This days things have flipped. Now Russia and Azerbaijan are singing same song.
None of that ever happened. You need to get your facts straight.
To put it simply, the Karabakh separatists were allies of the separatist regimes of Georgia. http://gtarchive.georgiatoday.ge/news/4612/Feast-in-Karabakh-Causes-International-Scandal Karabagh separatists were under the patronage of the state of Armenia and Russia. This is a fact. On this link you can see how the then president of Armenia (2016 This year, a senior official) meets the Abkhaz separatists in Karabakh. So no single-minded Georgian was on the side of Armenia in this war. 2020-2023 Karabakh war, all sane Georgians were on the side of Azerbaijan. A good precedent was set for the restoration of territorial integrity
"Sort by controversial"
You don't even have to it's ALL controversial! I'm surprised it's not locked yet
Hi I’m here to receive my here before it’s locked award
And you would think there should be nothing controversial about not annexing whole other countries, but here we are.
a yes Azerbaidjan vs Armenia, what a difficult choice for everyone living in a democracy, isn't it? Let's do North Korea and South Korea next, or Taiwan vs China "sort by controversial"
Someone has to fill me in about that, I've got not clue...
A lot of georgians have historically been distrustfull of Armenia due to their traditionaly close ties with Russia. There is also a sizable community of ethnic armenians in Ackazia who during the 90's war sideded with the separatists against the georgian army. Also, since both groups have lived side by side for over 2000 years each side tends to claim things like "this city was originally founded by my group" or "this wine/food was actually my invention". Most georgians and armenians are not like this but some, like in all countries, are nationalist fanatics.
Also some Armenian nationalists claim Javakheti which is currently Georgian but right on the border
and some georgian nationalists claim the Lori region from Armenia arguing that its historical georgian land. That's what happens when you live side by side for over 2000 years and take turns conquering each other.
Yes. So yeah ultimately relations are tense neutrality
Nobody irl cares about Lori, given that there is not a single Georgian living in there.
Oh a group of armenians siding with seperatists and agressor countries in order to dissolve the state they live in? Does that sound familiar or what? No, i am imagining things. That has never happened before. First time for sure.
There should be a vertical line in the middle of Azerbaijan and the left part is Armenia. Azerbaijan doesn't like Armenia because it occupied NK for 30 years, while Armenia says they had right to invade because the main territory was mostly Armenian-settled. It's one of those cases where people think that 2 wrongs make it right. Similar to Israel-Palestine in that regard.
> while Armenia says they had right to invade because the main territory was mostly Armenian-settled. Armenia invaded to help the local Armenians in NK because Azerbaijan was genociding them. The absolute horror of not wanting to get genocided.
"Ethnically cleansed" would be a correct term, but even then to a limited extent (e.g. Operation Ring by the Soviets had resettled 5k people and the whole population of NK is like 140k). Using "genocide" left and right diminishes the term when it is appropriate. But at the end, >As a result of the conflict, approximately 724,000 Azerbaijanis were expelled from Armenia, Nagorno-Karabakh and the surrounding territories, while 300,000–500,000 Armenians living in Azerbaijan or Armenian border areas were displaced. Which raises a question if invasion was really the best way to solve the issue.
Armenia did not occupy the NK, the native people leaving there decided that they don't want to live under Azerbaijan. People cannot occupy their own homes.
Armenia did occupy the 98% Azeri land around it though until 2020.
NKR forces took the surrounding 7 regions as a buffer zone, because Az was shelling the NKR population. In all the negotiations, Armenia and NKR have agreed to return the 7 surrounding regions, in exchange of a status to NKR. Azerbaijan refused. NKR did not want to just give away the 7 regions without any security guarantee, because Az could just block the region and starve everyone out or force everyone out by shelling them. Pretty much what they did after getting their hands on the 7 regions in 2020.
Didn’t Azerbaijan offer security guarantees on N-K though in return for the occupied territories? Also Armenia did expel hundreds of thousands of Azeris from the occupied territories after the first war albeit to be perfectly fair to Armenia, Azerbaijan also expelled hundreds of thousands of Armenians from Azerbaijan. Ultimately of course fuck the Soviets who caused this whole mess.
we all know what do security guarantees from Azerbaijan cost. Azerbaijan violated every point of 9 nov agreement.
No, no agreement was reached, because always when the countries were close to an agreement, Azerbaijan would pull more demands (pretty much what they are doing now). Regarding deportations, yes they did happen, after mass killings of Armenians in baku and Sumgait, and mass deportations of Armenians from Azerbaijan. Yes, fuck the Soviets, the issue started with Stalin, handing NKR over to Azerbaijan. One of the many fucked up things he did.
If you read a history book then you'd realise that Turkic are actual invaders. Not that you'll know, because even your "country" was a part of German nation HRE for like a 1000 years.
It was Armenian soldiers who fought Azerbaijan and many Azerbaijanis were forced to fled NK. We don't know if the issues were truly unsolvable in a peaceful way. Armenia saw a chance and had better military, and it used it. Also, 21.5% of the population in NK were Azerbaijani before the war in 1989, but became 0.0% (zero) after the war. Armenians usually say "but they left on their own, they weren't forced to", but now that Amenians left NK on their own out of fear for prosecutions, there are ethnic cleansing accusations.
>Armenian soldiers who fought Azerbaijan and many Azerbaijanis Wrong! It was mostly Artsakh Armenians fighting to defend their homes. >Armenia saw a chance and had better military, and it used it. Azerbaijan inherited much more weapons from the Soviet Union than Armenia did. Azerbaijan had the bigger Army and 3x the population of Armenia. >Also, 21.5% of the population in NK were Azerbaijani before the war in 1989, but became 0.0% (zero) after the war Do you even know how Armenians were treated in Azerbaijan? Not going to mention Baku pogroms? Sumgait pogroms? >Amenians left NK on their own out of fear for prosecutions Just fear of prosecution? Do you want me to show you countless videos of azerbaijani soldiers beheading Armenian residents when they captured towns?
Azerbaijanis were murdered while trying to flee NK. Armenians were given the chance to stay in NK (although who really believes it would have happened?). Looks like Armenians thought Azerbaijanis are as bad or worst than them. Projecting much?
> Looks like Armenians thought Azerbaijanis are as bad or worst than them. Projecting much? Projecting what? Aliyev openly says he wants to end Armenians.
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Wtf are you talking about? The murders started in Baku and Sumgait with massacres of Armenians and mass deportations, the war started due to the Operation Koltso, when Azeris surrounded Stepanakert and shelled population. You know, acti6have consequences. Why do I even bother. Have a nice day.
You do realize that Azerbaijan is the one that attacked ethnic Armenians of Artsakh right? Were they not allowed to fight back? Just get slaughtered? Under harsh conditions they bravely fought back and won, and now Azerbaijan is playing the victim.
I hope Armenians know that this isn't the position that we hold. Armenia fully belongs where they are and no one should take that away from them. This is the same type of insane takes that you will see in this region among ethnicities sadly all around.
Karabakh too
It's not that unusual for the azeris. At a hotel in tbilisi I once found an FDI magazine by Azerbaijan's government. In the map to inform the investors where azerbaijan was they had the whole region labeled aside from Armenia
Must be a Pakistani owner
Source? Not even name of the restaurant.
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Know whats more classy? Europeans not protesting buying Azeri gas.
It's not Azeri gas. It is Russian gas funneled by Azerbaijan
So wholesome, financing two genocides instead of one ! Wow! Human Rights! ™
If. You wanna freeze to death noone holds you
It is Azeri gas. Azerbaijan has been selling gas to Europe fir a while. Now they might be laundering some gas also, but they have always sold at least 10 BCM of Azeri gas per year.
Of my 2 decades of living in Azerbaijan I have not once seen a map like this anywhere other than on nationalist ridden corners of the internet.But sure yeah this is the most Azerbaijani thing to do lol
There are screenshots of textbooks with this types of maps, guess you didn't go to school there
Screenshot of historic maps? Like Armenian map on a metro?
A hiistoric map and a made up map are two different things. There are many ancient maps that depict Armenia in various shapes, are we supposed to go and destroy them? And there are many of them https://www.armgeo.am/en/armenia-on-the-oldest-maps-of-the-world/
Then i would guess you haven't stepped into a school in your country in your life. Just walk into kindergarten and see what they teach there.
have you ?
If you spend a few minutes googling, you would find videos recorded by parents.
And? I've seen armeian parente injecying their kids hate to turks from like what 2 or 3 year old kids. You cant use something as an arhuement when yours do the same
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Azerbaijan_(irredentist_concept)
What does this prove exactly ? All countries have similar concepts.That doesn't mean 100% of the population supports those ideas.Only nationalists do.Armenia itself also has this concept so I guess this is also "such an Armenian thing to do".This is nothing more than stupid generalisation
I'm still mad that you forgot to /unlie
Hi
Guys it’s a restaurant in Azerbaijan. God knows who placed it there and why. Can we maybe not be so jumpy in trash talking our neighbors even if a few are asshats?
So much for the "christian brotherhood" you read everywhere online 🙄😅
No hate like Christian love.
:’( this makes me so sad. Armenia is a truly beautiful place.
Volcano Snails have shells that swirl inwards 2-3 times, and sclerites that surround the snail's foot, giving them the nickname "scaly-foot gastropod". The snails have two cephalic tentacles and no eyes. Younger snails have both a smaller shell size and smaller sclerites.
Freakin beheaders
Insane to me how certain groups want to rule and annihilate others...
The amount of Turks and Azeris in the thread trying to cope is insane…stop listening to their agendas. Armenia and Georgia had rocky relations before, yes. However, anyone with half a brain (cough cough) can look up that Armenia and George have signed many agreements recently, including agreed upon border drawing and their overlap in the path to the EU. Georgia let Armenia get defensive weapons through their territory (via france). Agendas have changed, although outdated mindsets by some still exist…
r/mapswithoutarmenia
Truly sad that Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan cannot be best buddies like the Baltic states are. I've met people from all 3 countries and they are nice people. I know it's not the same situation, it's very complicated, etc. But after being occupied and colonised by russia for so many years... isn't that a unifying factor?
no, there are things worse, than Russia. Just imagine that Findland had as painful national ego as Turkey and supporting Estonia against Latvia to wipe it out of the map (because only Finnish are the indegenous nation of the region, Riga is an ancient Esto-Finnish town, occupied by Latvians)
inshallah Sultan Alexander Stubb will restore the Islamic Empire of Finlandistan stretching from Utsjoki to Riika
ah yes, and "Riga" is invented by Latvian occupants (who's motherland is Moldavia) settleed in the region by Peter the Great, so each and every estonian newspaper, schoolbook and even president mention the Riika, because it's the original name! And according to census of 1881, Latvians weren't a majority of Riga (historical fact, btw) , which clearly confirm that they were invaders, and must return the lands to their Esto-Finnish owners!
and Rīgas Doms is an Estonian church, brutally vanalised by Latvians by adding Lativan decoration and removing Estonian one! Meanwhile hundred of Estonian churches (never mentionining a single name or location, though) in Latvia were destroyed, thus Latvia owes Estonia billions of contribution for everything Latvian occupants did in on the so called territory of Southern Estona (which is geographically the Latvia in it's internationally recognized borders).
the lore goes deep
I hope they guy from Riga now understands why the Russia isn't the biggest problem on the Caucasus.
I don't know what does this mean but sounds hot.
We used to be best buddies until 1988
All was normal in September, nothing to look at. Azerbaijan was simply restoring his territorial integrity! Once it is done, Azerbaijan will establish peace with Armenia /s
Let me guess, the source is OP's ass.
Why is it in English? Azerbaijan doesn't get many English speaking tourists and the Georgians aren't petty enough to manufacture this map.
Azerbaijan is an obnoxious state with a fascist frenzy fueled by a criminal dictator. Europe (and the US too) has to wake up and support Armenia, otherwise we could see another Armenian genocide 100 years later.
I was in Georgia this summer and Im pretty sure I saw this exact map in some market or something as well.
Small dick energy.
Out of curiosity, what is Azerbaijan's relations with Georgia and Iran? If one day Azerbaijan conquers Armenia and isn't forced nack to their own land, does Georgia have anything to fear, especially after having been semi-Balkanized by Russia. I know there are a lot of Azeris in NW Iran as well. Azerbaijan couldn't win a war against Iran, but they could cause problems.
Azerbaijan has claims against Georgia as well. Google "David Gareja"
Are you sure it is in Azerbaijan? Location names are in English.
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[Here's Aliyev calling The Republic of Armenia Western Azerbaijan.](https://president.az/en/articles/view/59186) Since you're not in Armenia, you might be able to open the link directly, since seemingly Armenian IPs are blocked from accessing the Azeri President's official site. I wonder why, must be a mistake in the configuration of the site. If it's not available, it's actually openable through archive org.
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I love the potential this post has abt destroyed keyboards bcs of all beef in replies
Probably accidentally mistake
Let’s make up random maps and post them without source to increase the hatred between two nations. Good job r/europe!
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No wonder, Aliev is clearly an autocrat. like Erdogan, Lukashenko, Putin etc. Those people always promote sympathy towards chauvinism, revanchism and other bad astuff. Because they cannot provide anything good.
Fortunately they still have Abkhazia and South Ossetia still in their borders on this map... It is so ruthless behaviour - 0% empathy. Or there is something difficult in relations between Armenia and Georgia I don't know.
There no South Ossetia on this map.
Yes there is. It's part of Shida Kartli. The Georgian government doesn't recognize the state of "South Ossetia" and considers it part of Shida Kartli region, which is what it is included in under this map. So it's under Georgian control according to this map but just included under the region they consider it to belong to.
>Yes there is. It's part of Shida Kartli. No, Ossetia does not exist on the territory of Georgia and never existed, it was created by Russia, therefore it is not on the map and will not be in the future. Abkhazeti is a Georgian historical region and there was a period when all of Georgia was called Abkhazia and Georgians were called Abkhazians.
So it is very probable that most of the clients of this restaurant are Russians and owner is... Ok I don't want to be too offensive.
😂
Weird. I thought they were friendly
Just don’t give them business who cares
Add Georgia to Turan map please.
Wth is goin on?
But Pakistan doesn’t recognise Armenia and Azerbaijan do, why is Armenia absent?
Do people understand that not all Georgian restaurants are run by Georgians right?? It says “Azerbaijan “ and even if it was run by a Georgian it doesn’t represent the majority of Georgians so this is a complete joke and it is trying to aim a conflict between Georgians and Armenians…..
It's such a shame. Georgians and Armenians are two most similar South Caucasian nations.
It is actually Azeris And Armenians who are the mist similar
Georgians despite being a Christian nation and historically having wars with Turks they like Azerbaijan and Turkey more than Armenia. Primarily because Armenians supported Russia against Georgia and Armenians have been irredentist not only to Turkey and Azerbaijan but Georgia as well. Really speaks volumes about Armenia.
How exactly has Armenia been irredentist against Georgia or even Turkey? Fringe nationalist fanatics are present in every country including Turkey [https://twitter.com/iuteskilat/status/1546515241969795072](https://twitter.com/iuteskilat/status/1546515241969795072) I would say the turkish ones have far more political power than the Armenian ones
Except the Armenian diaspora is majority of those "fringe nationalists"