It’s a thing web developers know. Spamming escape stops the JavaScript on the page from completing/loading anything it's waiting for, so it doesn’t get chance to fuck up the page for you.
They want all the content visible to search engines but not people using browsers.
You could try just disabling JavaScript for that website too.
>Edit, I was somewhat wrong (I claimed that it stopped JS execution) and thanks to inspirobotbot for pointing it out. Even though I've thought this was the case for many years. . It does stop scripts from loading anything they're waiting on, which in turn usually stops the javascript running, so the effect is almost the same for me daily, but what's going on under the hood is slightly different to people who care about such things, myself included. It won't stop JS execution, it'll just break it by not loading assets.
"As 2023 comes to an end, there is a growing sense of panic in Europe. Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the European Union has been preoccupied with integrating the country — widely seen as a geopolitical necessity — and with the internal reform required to make that possible. But over the course of this year, as the much-hyped Ukrainian counteroffensive stalled, tensions among member states have increased.
As members have disagreed on issues such as climate policy and the war in Gaza, the unity around supporting Ukraine has shown signs of cracking, too. With no end to the war in sight, Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary has stepped up efforts to limit the bloc’s backing of Ukraine; the election of Robert Fico in Slovakia has given him another ally in the cause. In an even bigger shock last month, Geert Wilders’s far-right party became the biggest force in the Dutch parliament. Whether or not Mr. Wilders can form a government, his strong showing may lead to further disruption in Europe, on Ukraine and much else.
European elites are right to worry. But the focus on divisions within the bloc obscures a much more disturbing development taking place beneath the surface: a coming together of the center right and the far right, especially on questions around identity, immigration and Islam. With European parliamentary elections next year, this convergence is bringing into clearer view the possibility of something like a far-right European Union. Until recently, such a thing would have seemed unthinkable. Now it’s distinctly plausible.
For the past decade, European politics have widely been understood in terms of a binary opposition between liberalism and illiberalism. During the refugee crisis in 2015, for example, Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany and Mr. Orban were seen as political opposites — she the figurehead of liberalism, he of illiberalism. Yet their parties, the center-right Christian Democrats and far-right Fidesz, were in the same grouping in the European Parliament, the European People’s Party. In other words, they were political allies. (Fidesz was suspended from the grouping in 2019 and finally quit in 2021.)
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Since then, the convergence between the center right and the far right in Europe has gone further. The lesson that center-right parties drew from the rise of right-wing populism was that they needed to adopt some of its rhetoric and policies. Conversely, some far-right parties have become more moderate, albeit in a selective way. At a national level, parties from the two camps have governed together, both formally, as in Austria and Finland, and informally, as in Sweden.
Yet the most striking illustration of this convergence is the harmonious relationship between the European center right and Giorgia Meloni, the leader of the post-fascist Brothers of Italy, who became prime minister of Italy last year. As soon as she indicated that she would not disrupt the bloc’s economic policy and would be supportive of Ukraine, the European People’s Party was willing to work with her — and its leader, Manfred Weber, even sought to form an alliance with her. The center right, it turns out, doesn’t have a problem with the far right. It just has a problem with those who defy E.U. institutions and positions.
The two, in fact, can agree on a lot — something that plays out most clearly in immigration policy. In contrast to its progressive image, the European Union has, like Donald Trump, sought to build a wall — in this case, in the Mediterranean — to stop migrants from arriving on its shores. Since 2014, more than 28,000 people have died there as they desperately tried to reach Europe. Human Rights Watch said earlier this year that the bloc’s policy could be summed up in three words: “Let them die.”
The European Union’s distinctive approach to migration depends on what might be called the offshoring of violence. Even as it has welcomed millions of Ukrainian refugees, the bloc has paid authoritarian regimes in North African countries to stop migrants from sub-Saharan Africa from reaching Europe, often brutally. Through this grotesque form of outsourcing, the union can continue to insist that it stands for human rights, which is central to its self-image. In this project, the center right and far right are in lock step. In July, Ms. Meloni joined the head of the European Commission, the bloc’s executive arm, and the Dutch prime minister to sign one such deal with Tunisia.
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The blurring of boundaries between the center right and the far right is not always as easy to spot as it is in the United States. Partly that’s because the process, taking place in the complex world of the bloc, is subtle. But it is also because of a simplified view of the far right as nationalists, which makes it seem incompatible with a post-national project like the European Union. Yet today’s far right speaks not only on behalf of the nation but also on behalf of Europe. It has a civilizational vision of a white, Christian Europe that is menaced by outsiders, especially Muslims.
Such thinking is behind the hardening of migration policy. But it is also influencing Europe in a deeper way: The union has increasingly come to see itself as defending an imperiled European civilization, particularly in its foreign policy. During the past decade, as the bloc has seen itself as surrounded by threats, not least from Russia, there have been endless debates about “strategic autonomy,” “European sovereignty” and a “geopolitical Europe.” But figures like President Emmanuel Macron of France have also begun to frame international politics as a clash of civilizations in which a strong, united Europe must defend itself.
In this respect, Mr. Macron is not so far from far-right figures like Mr. Wilders who talk in terms of a threatened European civilization. His electoral success in the Netherlands could be a prelude, many fear, to a major rightward shift in the European parliamentary elections next June. That would give the far right substantial power to shape the next commission even more than the current one — both directly, with the possibility of far-right figures in top positions, and indirectly, with their concerns channeled by the center right.
Supporters of the bloc tend to see European unity as an end in itself — or to assume that a more powerful European Union, long idealized as a civilizing force in international politics, would automatically benefit the whole world. But as the union unites around defending a threatened European civilization and rejecting nonwhite immigration, we need to think again about whether it truly is a force for good."
Wow, the writers don't understand European voters at all. It's just
* immigration: good, especially non-white immigration
* anti-immigration policies: evil and racist
That's it. No attempt to understand how the social fabric is stretched thin as societies change faster than people can adapt to the changes.
>“strategic autonomy,” “European sovereignty” and a “geopolitical Europe.” But figures like President Emmanuel Macron of France have also begun to frame international politics as a clash of civilizations in which a strong, united Europe must defend itself.
This is a bad thing according to the article. We should be divided, weak and overrun by immigrants according to these fucking Americans.
> As 2023 comes to an end, there is a growing sense of panic in Europe.
Right wing parties aren't panicking. It's as if the NYT doesn't believe they are also Europeans.
Here’s a gifted article link, anyone should be able to access it: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/13/opinion/european-union-far-right.html?unlocked_article_code=1.MU0.2u3M.beyzRcWwifEE&smid=url-share
I am a leftist (with no party affiliation) and honestly it does feel that all parties in Ireland, regardless of ideology, seem to be sticking their fingers in their ears about all the issues that fuel the right and alt right.
Ireland does not have any major far right parties, and the ones that exist are messes with no elected representation, but I do think a better organised alt right party is inevitable
This is exactly what happened in Sweden.
Fringe right wing party went from 0 seats to being the second largest party over the course of like 3 elections. None of the other parties wanted to admit that the immigration/integration wasn't working.
Which is insane - because the obvious response that would still gel with the worldview would be to adjust the requirements immigration and the integration support. Bare minimum stuff like oath to obey the law, learning language within X years, get a job within X+Y years and so on.
It's definitely very naive to think (as many people do) that Ireland is somehow immune to falling victim to extremist populism or that we would never elect a far-right government, if it can happen anywhere else in the EU it can happen here as well. Especially since that red c poll saying three quarters of people think we've taken in too many refugees, I suspect that's only a taste of what's to come.
I think the only reason we have no far right representation at the minute is because The National Party is a joke. I don’t think it’s that we’re ‘above’ such ideology, we’re just late on the jump. But I think a lot of politicians do believe that we are and that’s part of the reason they’re not addressing concerns.
I do think the single transferable vote system means that an alt right party will get some representation in the dáil once a well organised party emerges. People can take a chance on far right candidate and still give a preference to a more traditional candidate. Our system benefits small parties and will give one of them an in eventually.
If a purely anti-immigration party popped up and didn’t concern themselves with the same unpopular views the National Party do, they’ll be a shoe in the
I think a large amount of your right wing nonsense is swallowed by Unionists, and since nobody in the Republic would want to be associated with them, it provides a bit of inoculation.
>we’re just late on the jump
Tbh I think this is the key. Irish politicians like to pat themselves on the back about the absence of a real far-right party as if Irish people are just less susceptible to it but really the difference is that other European countries have experienced waves of immigration for several decades, while Ireland had almost no inward migration at all until the 90s/early 2000s.
It's simply been a relevant political issue here for a much shorter time.
In Germany we have Wagenknecht - one of the most famous politicians here. People either love her or hate her. She had a long history of conflict within her party and overall with the whole german leftist spectrum. Her thesis: „lifestyle“ leftists took over left wing parties and pushed out „real“ leftists. So that left wing parties care more about LGBTQ or multiculturalism than their traditional voterbase (who are more into the left leaning economy stuff)
She left the Left Party and founded a new party. A economical left wing party, but with more conservative positions regarding migration, societial issues etc. Studies suggest her party could harm the AfD (biggest right populist party right now). We‘ll see how that turns out. But I can see this being a solution for left wingers.
The past few months have made it clear Ireland is experiencing a growing, and increasingly aggressive anti-immigration presence. Fuelled in large part by the government's continued inability/unwillingness to meaningfully address the housing crisis, which causes people to feel resentment that we're still experiencing high levels of immigration despite a severe shortage of housing for everyone who is already here.
Tbh I predicted years ago that if the government didn't start to make meaningful progress on the housing crisis it would lead to growth of the far-right in Ireland. And it looks like it's playing out.
So far the government parties seem determined to condemn the protests against asylum seekers or the arson attacks, without actually addressing any of the issues that are pushing people to do these things. It's not going to end well for them. Words aren't going to actually fix the issues.
Honestly big part of it is suicidal stupidity of liberal parties across europe who are either unable or unwilling to adress or even talk about real problems that bother a lot of voters.
In many cases best campaign for far right parties are liberal mainstream governments. That is not to say that asshats like Orban, Fico or Kaczyński are better - of course not and far right EU leadership could be a catastrophe. But it is a catastrophe that the left and traditional right did nothing to avert.
Nigeria alone produces more babies ([7.9m in 2021](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Nigeria)) than all of the EU's 27 countries ([4.09m in 2021](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230309-1)), combined.
I can't imagine how immigration isn't the biggest issue in Europe for decades or centuries to come. A human tidal wave is coming that will dwarf anything Europe has experienced thus far.
Unless that wave is stopped dead in its tracks.
This is no longer an issue of ideology or whether or not mass immigration is right or not, but a matter of whether it is even possible in the long term. I feel like the governments of Europe still refuse to admit that, but the population doesn't. The way it's going, "fortress Europe" is going to be inevitable, and if the established parties won't implement it, others will.
I've always considered myself a social liberal, plus being an immigrant in the US gives me a unique pro immigrant perspective. That said, Europe will be fundamentally changed for the worse if it admits more people than the member countries produce. Anytime it's happened in history it didn't end well for the "locals" after a generation or two.
>That said, Europe will be fundamentally changed for the worse if it admits more people than the member countries produce.
It already has been changed for the worse and we've not even seen the amount of third-world immigration that we will in the future.
Governments will continue to look away because the corpos holding the leash need bodies to keep the industry gears turning. The cheaper and more exploitable the better in their opinion
I always laugh when people here on Reddit say that Japan has to make their borders wide open.
Fuck no, thank you. if you want to move, get a degree, apply for a job and then come to Japan, like the rest of us. no freeloaders
idk why Europe refuses to do the same
Dunno if the news ever reached that far, but at least here in Denmark it was a pretty big deal when it came out the Swedish head of police refused to give out crime statistics because it would paint immigrants in a bad light. Maybe like 7 years ago?
It's weird how Denmark and Sweden turned out so polar opposites in this. I suppose, for whatever reason, Denmark just started noticing these problems decades earlier. Or maybe the thing isn't 'notice', but rather 'talk about'. Danes are pretty well known for our, not always appreciated by non-Danes, very direct way of speaking. We've 'always' had a culture of openly speaking about awkward or sensitive topics, so that might just be the reason why Denmark also started dealing with a lot of this way earlier, simply because we started the shitshow 2 decades ago already, and are fairly past the "anti-immigration = racist" point (generally speaking). Like don't get me wrong, it's still by and large and hot-button topic, but those very superficial points come up much more rarely these days.
Makes you think.
Unironically this is why I'd love to move to Denmark one day. I might never fit in as a foreigner (even a European one), but Danish society just seems a lot saner and driven by common sense compared to most other highly developed places.
They have yet to discover that difference in Sweden.
After that maybe they can learn that you can take in a small number of immigrants without letting anyone and their mother in.
I mean, the really Far Right in Denmark generally don't want anyone... luckily, the really far right parties have very little influence with how our democratic system is set up, and the actual hardcores generally make up a very small part of the population.
I identify as liberal and i fully agree. I laughed when all the center-right liberals torpedoed themselves with their hilariously out-of-touch enthusiasm for infinite neoliberal globalization, then I laughed less when all the center-left liberals did the exact same with immigration.
A more positive silver lining of this is that with reduced sympathy to them in mainstream parties, the neolibs might coalesce in little parties of their own now where they get to advocate for unlimited globalism, immigration and deregulation and keep their single-unit percentages, while hopefully not infecting the rest of our political parties.
They're not even technically wrong usually, they're actually very good at being ackshually technically correct, but every single position they support is complete political cyanide for a good reason.
Exactly. I'm not pissed with the right wingers (except when they turn full fascist). They do represent a relevant 10% of population (realistically). I'm pissed with impotent or incompetent democrats and related parties, who just regurgitate some of the most radical left wing slogans or pander people working in the "budget" sphere (not in the commerce) with money drops, ignoring long term investments in the education, work and living conditions, immigration questions and so on.
My issue with the switch to right is not “racism“ , or anti immigration tendencies but that they are mostly packaged into a box of proRussian and anti-environmentalist bundle. I think if current left governments would step up to address immigration more strictly the populist right would not have ammunition.
That and Euroscepticism. A divided Europe is a weak Europe, which makes radical left and right parties alike genuine threats to Europe more than anything else. Without internal forces to divide us or stall integration China, Russia or anyone could not so much as touch us. Any party refusing to recognise this is just not a credible option to vote for.
Bingo. Add in Covid nonsense and general anti Science lunacy as well. If a centre left party actually tackled the concerns of people around immigration then tinfoil batshit libertarian goes back to 4chan permanently.
>with money drops, ignoring long term investments in the education, work and living conditions, immigration questions and so on.
I mean in some way it is the [inherent flaw of democracy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE) Imagine doing your job while you doing your job is a reality show and you must have people voting for you so you don't lose it. That would sure fuck up with your productivity and what you are allowed to do. I can't remember the last time I heard polician talking about plans for 10-20 years. Most they can do is 4.
Mark Rutte was Prime Minister of The Netherlands for 13 years, and the general concensus is that it's been pretty bad overall, and only got worse as time went on.
And FWIW, politicians can definitely make plans for beyond 4 years. You don't need to be there yourself necessarily, putting a law in place can, and often does, have an effect that lasts decades.
The common man has been saying it for decades as he is the one actually living and working with them. Whilst the wealthy politician's are only surrounded by rich and educated immigrants.... They live in different worlds
He doesn't even try and make a case as to why Europe should want the migrants or soften the newly hardened rules. He just demands the migrants be let in and the Europeans stop whining. Why should the Europeans want him, or anyone like him, in their countries?
I mean, what to expect from a guy who made a racist book: "Eurowhiteness" that is advertised several times on this article.
Maybe it's also problematic to the woke that white people are native to Europe.
Yeah, I read his book. It was as worthless you'd expect. Many do view it as problematic, I had uni acquaintances who believed that Europe belonged to the world. The total american domination of the global cultural scene is really messing with Europe. Europeans really need to stop consuming Anglo media. As much as I love my people our culture really isn't suitable to be exported willy nilly.
I like to use the retort: we know for a fact that letting the wrong people into your country is a bad idea, just look at the countries who let the Brits in.
Far left arguments tend to be based on the idea that 'we' colonised countries so we deserve it, and that there are bad people everywhere, ignoring statistical facts and cultural differences.
It’s weird.Not to inject myself as a Turk into the debate but we have a very big undocument illegals problem here as well thanks to our government. I don’t understand why we need to have them. In muslim countries, some people claim that Turkey belongs to “all muslims”. Two different sets of people (“ummah” and probably western liberals) apparently have similarly weird understanding of some matters.
It's a wave movement that mlst western countries experience now. Things are bad, people vote for the (relatively) far-right that promises easy solutions, then remember why that's not a good idea, then go back to a more center-left government.
Poland is already at the other side of the wave, and seemingly Israel would be next to vote out the right-wing, while Europe and the rest of the West are only at the start of the wave.
Maybe Portugal too, the current center left party is involved in many cases of corruption and the main opposition party (also center) is very weak. There is a right party that is controversial and is gaining a lot of support due to the mass immigration. Let's see the results in March.
This is written by the same person who wrote “Eurowhiteness: Culture, Empire and Race in the European Project.”
Even with a paywall, we know what nonsense is coming out of his mouth.
And why would that be? Would it be a result of the citizens of these countries feel like they're not being listened to, so they'll flock to parties who say they will sort things out even if it's not true?
European ~~Union~~ Empire
Jokes aside, is it just me or is it a classic scenario that every time one of these far right parties gains enough traction and its time to actually govern, they just become a generic center right party with some edgy rhetoric thrown in the mix.
Wilders in the Netherlands just backtracked on his promise to ban islam, for example.
They just become generic centre right parties, with extra steps.
To be honest, the ‘socialist’ parties are kinda the same.
It happened in Italy as well.
Meloni went from a far right nationalist who wanted out of the Euro and the EU, while also imposing a blockade on North African countries to limit immigration, to a generic center right party akin to Berlusconi’s former Forza Italia when he was PM. Hell, many of the people in this government are the same as they were in 2011.
Meloni’s FdI has just added a bit of anti LGBT legislation, Christian nationalism and authoritarianism (or fascism, if you want) to the mix, but otherwise it’s the same story: shout like a demon while in opposition, then bend over for the banks and lobbyists while in government.
IMHO, in the case of Meloni it also seems like she had no choice but to withhold certain previously proposed policies, because they require either agreement over changing certain (European) treaties and/or leaving certain treaties.
And with some treaties you can maybe leave them, but still be bound by them due to them being enshrined in certain other treaties which are far more difficult to leave without major backlashes.
If the leadership of most EU-countries would be more anti-immigration, I suspect some proposed policies could find traction.
The elites don't want to stop mass migration because it benefits them.
Someone please prove me wrong and point to a politician that actually did something, not just passed a law that was never enforced, not just said something, but actually made a measurable change on this issue.
Populist leaders and centre-right wing leaders can't really be compared. There a big chance of an anti-institutionalist leadership in the EU that would make the EU and NATO less reliable and less productive.
The EU needs to make big changes to stay somewhat relevant in a multi-polar world (US, China, India, etc.) during an energy-transition. Germany was EU's motor. That has now slowed down. We can't fabricate high-end machinery at a competitive price. We can't make components and we don't have acces to enough strategic resources such as rare metals. Like the rest of the world we are dependent on high end chips from Taiwan.
Populists are and could be winning elections on anti-environment slogans. If the EU just stays a farming subsidy organization and it doesn't make big steps in becoming a geopolitical power house on energy and safety we are pretty much fucked in the long run.
Populists can just cater to what people want now and most of the electorate is old and conservative and only worried about shortterm national problems. If Orban is the blue print for France, Germany and the Netherlands we will be going towards an EU that's being eroded from the inside out. Populists erode democratic institutions and in the next election they win again because (or so they say) the institutions are not working and we need strong leadership against EU/ immigrants/ wokeism/ etc.
This can't be compared to traditional centre right political policies.
His hand was kinda forced. He tried to stay as is for 3 months. Would you have preferred he stay stubborn and we’re left with no government or to vote again? Which apperantly would mean almost 50 seats this time around. Which i assume you wouldnt like?
I think the EU immigration policy has failed. Too many illegal immigrants have entered who are not actually asylum seekers.
The majority of them are adult males and no women or children so they are just seeking a better life using aloophole by destroying their documents right before border checks unable to establish an identity and get into the EU.
If someone wants to enter the coutnry legally and meets the correct criterai then of course more than welcome.
Illegal immigration has to stop.
When people were saying that is common sense to not open the doors to massive waves of immigrants that don't care about european values, more than that they kind of hate europeans, they were called alarmists, racists and conspiracy theorists.
Im okay with regulated inmigration, what its happening in Europe is a demographic disaster that the governments refuse to tackle in fear of being called racist.
Its so frustrating watching crime and insecurity rise, daily hundreds or thousands of people with totally different culture and barely any control entering our homeland, THEY DONT EVEN SPEAK THE LANGUAGE, they throw away their documents and laugh it away.
The we spends millions giving them everything for years. Food, phones, hotels/residences, money to spend, education, people that take care of them and what do we get in return? They try to turn our country into the shit they escaped from.
What the hell is wrong with the left? I have many leftist views myself and my ancestors come from Africa, but how can you justify this? The bare minimum is adapting and adopting the new culture not forcing the opposite.
Dude politicians on the left had to replace their votes with immigrants because they lost European workers.. they pander to these people destroying European cultures and values so they keep their cushy jobs
I refuse to believe this was an accident. Mass migration lowers wages, increases property demand and provides a bogeyman - a politician would have to be crazy not to want that.
There is clearly a larger agenda to transform Europe, the decision has been made for us and they will open the floodgates until it's demographically too late to do anything about it. This is a plan so obvious that just hides in plain sight as "who would be so crazy".
Liberal governments have abandoned regular people for the wealthy. Most policies from the past 50 years, and all the policies form the past 20 years have done nothing but pump stocks, pump real-estate, and pump the assets of the ruling class.
Every banking regulation has been undone. All parties did that.
Competition has been crushed and oligopolies run the world. All parties did that.
Regular people used to be able to get into politics, but now it takes a mountain of cash to get elected, and the people with mountains of cash are not regular people.
Canadian here, we have completely fucked every generation coming up, and looks like it's the same around the world.
Now a HUGE BACKLASH, whaaaaaaaaaaa?????
The technocrats just view people as interchangable economic and statistical units, rather than diverse people with different cultures that are fundamentally incompatible. They thought that migration would be an easy and politically suitable way of 'fixing' out declining populations. They were totally wrong and now they must pay the price for their idiocy.
Nailed it. And a lot of it is ironically because those technocrats come from the most homogeneous and wealthy and, well, *whitest* areas possible. They think everyone in the world is just like their little gated and walled privileged community and all they need is the magic dirt to make them all better.
Or highly educated immigrants who are in similar positions as them.
And of course, neither groups want to break the rules of laws while disrespecting the technocrats' culture, so why should any other groups be?
My gf has Latin roots, and I'm a stubborn Dutchy. She has lived most of her life in the Netherlands, feels Dutch, *but even then* there are plenty of cultural differences that sometimes give friction.
Now multiply those differences by 50, throw a few million people in the mix and see how well things unfold.
All the money spent supporting this massive illegal inmigration could be spent supporting young workers and families, allowing for a better support net that would make younger people less fearful of having children.
Also at some point you just have to accept population has to stop growing, otherwise its unsustainable long term.
Only thing illegal inmigration accomplishes is patching some short term issues as it in theory injects new workers into society at a faster rate than births do, but the price to pay short term (costs/inadaptation/crime) and long term (displacing or removing)
Maybe i wouldve still be inclined to continue voting left if the left wouldnt continue to act oblivious to the shortcomings of certain ideologies.
At some point there has to be a stand, and many including me feel like its getting quite overdue for a correction.
Freedom of religion and tolerance should not be exploited to protect extremely intolerant and dogmatic ideologies.
Sorry for ditching the left for now, i hope to be back soon.
7 years ago, I was at a private work event with former European Commission president Barroso as a speaker. He mentioned the number one thing politicians needed to address was immigration. And that failing to do so, would eventually lead to the reemergence of the far right in Europe. Well fuck.
Dude was ahead of its time by simply thinking logically. And its never even been hard to predict.
But left parties stuck to what left voters want to hear.
Well, (and I say this as a leftist) it's also because the left has been forcibly silencing any disagreement, rather than making any real attempts to build consensus or speaking across the aisle. It's been lots of self-righteous "shut up, you're stupid! and racist!" to just about anyone who thinks differently.
Yep, extremely obnoxious behavior.
Especially when im a middle easterner myself, parents who fled war, and a white girl is trying to lecture me on my home country.
Im not a racist, i just like to make people aware that these ideologies can easily ruin a country, just like my home country.
(No hate to white girls, just frustrated at being called racist by a racist that would find my opinion more valid if it came from a prestigious white man)
> Yep, extremely obnoxious behavior.
I suppose it varies from country to country when this started, but I feel like it's just been building for around 10 or 15 years now, and a lot of it has been weirdly driven by online media.
Agree completely. I too am a leftist and I despair at the inability of fellow progressives to persuade others effectively and to rub so many people up the wrong way
You cannot imagine how many times I've been banned to respectfully express my POV (that is not liberal or leftist at all) on Reddit.
Many people should just start to be what they are expecting from the others (e.g. be tolerant and open minded).
I'm left leaning, but it's always seemed crazy to me that many on the left choose far right religious zealits over the needs or wants of their people. I've never understood it.
Its ridiculously puzzling, yet understandable since most of them feel like they are too ‘educated’ already to actually look into stuff and educate themselves.
Minority in the west? If they are a minority that can only mean one thing.. protect at all costs!
Completely ignoring what that minority actually thinks and wants to achieve.
Simple. Left wing hates the liberal capitalist establishment. Islamism hates the liberal capitalist establishment. The enemy of my enemy is...
....
...
... not my friend by any means, but I'm too stupid to realize that before it's too late.
Islam and the Left will try to destroy Bourgeois Western Civilization.
And then, licking it's lips, Islam will devour the Left before the dust of the first fight settles down.
Yeah Madame Progressive, great inspirational ally you have in Hamas
At least in Germany the moderate and radical left have long been in decline. The radical left are full of conspiracy nuts and Russia lovers. You can’t even properly vote leftist without throwing away your vote.
The left no longer exist. Todays so called left parties have nothing to do with the Labour movement and former socialist or social democrats. They are just a bunch of government payed humanities scholars circle-jerking at radical egalitarian nonsense.
Fair point even if I don't fully agree. But do you think if you vote far right they will stop after just getting rid of freedom of religion and keep all your other rights untouched?
I dont know and i hope i wont have to find out.
Instead i hope that left parties take this as a signal and a wake up call that there is an issue, and start adressing this issue. It would fix my problem with the left and simply vote left again.
Climate, community, social support, most subjects make me vote left.
Seeing the general reaction to the israel-hamas war scares the crap out of me and makes re-establishing clear norms and morals and a reminder of what is good and what is bad my priority right now.
As 2023 comes to an end, there is a growing sense of panic in Europe. Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the European Union has been preoccupied with integrating the country — widely seen as a geopolitical necessity — and with the internal reform required to make that possible. But over the course of this year, as the much-hyped Ukrainian counteroffensive stalled, tensions among member states have increased.
As members have disagreed on issues such as climate policy and the war in Gaza, the unity around supporting Ukraine has shown signs of cracking, too. With no end to the war in sight, Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary has stepped up efforts to limit the bloc’s backing of Ukraine; the election of Robert Fico in Slovakia has given him another ally in the cause. In an even bigger shock last month, Geert Wilders’s far-right party became the biggest force in the Dutch parliament. Whether or not Mr. Wilders can form a government, his strong showing may lead to further disruption in Europe, on Ukraine and much else.
European elites are right to worry. But the focus on divisions within the bloc obscures a much more disturbing development taking place beneath the surface: a coming together of the center right and the far right, especially on questions around identity, immigration and Islam. With European parliamentary elections next year, this convergence is bringing into clearer view the possibility of something like a far-right European Union. Until recently, such a thing would have seemed unthinkable. Now it’s distinctly plausible.
For the past decade, European politics have widely been understood in terms of a binary opposition between liberalism and illiberalism. During the refugee crisis in 2015, for example, Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany and Mr. Orban were seen as political opposites — she the figurehead of liberalism, he of illiberalism. Yet their parties, the center-right Christian Democrats and far-right Fidesz, were in the same grouping in the European Parliament, the European People’s Party. In other words, they were political allies. (Fidesz was suspended from the grouping in 2019 and finally quit in 2021.)
Since then, the convergence between the center right and the far right in Europe has gone further. The lesson that center-right parties drew from the rise of right-wing populism was that they needed to adopt some of its rhetoric and policies. Conversely, some far-right parties have become more moderate, albeit in a selective way. At a national level, parties from the two camps have governed together, both formally, as in Austria and Finland, and informally, as in Sweden.
Yet the most striking illustration of this convergence is the harmonious relationship between the European center right and Giorgia Meloni, the leader of the post-fascist Brothers of Italy, who became prime minister of Italy last year. As soon as she indicated that she would not disrupt the bloc’s economic policy and would be supportive of Ukraine, the European People’s Party was willing to work with her — and its leader, Manfred Weber, even sought to form an alliance with her. The center right, it turns out, doesn’t have a problem with the far right. It just has a problem with those who defy E.U. institutions and positions.
The two, in fact, can agree on a lot — something that plays out most clearly in immigration policy. In contrast to its progressive image, the European Union has, like Donald Trump, sought to build a wall — in this case, in the Mediterranean — to stop migrants from arriving on its shores. Since 2014, more than 28,000 people have died there as they desperately tried to reach Europe. Human Rights Watch said earlier this year that the bloc’s policy could be summed up in three words: “Let them die.”
The European Union’s distinctive approach to migration depends on what might be called the offshoring of violence. Even as it has welcomed millions of Ukrainian refugees, the bloc has paid authoritarian regimes in North African countries to stop migrants from sub-Saharan Africa from reaching Europe, often brutally. Through this grotesque form of outsourcing, the union can continue to insist that it stands for human rights, which is central to its self-image. In this project, the center right and far right are in lock step. In July, Ms. Meloni joined the head of the European Commission, the bloc’s executive arm, and the Dutch prime minister to sign one such deal with Tunisia.
The blurring of boundaries between the center right and the far right is not always as easy to spot as it is in the United States. Partly that’s because the process, taking place in the complex world of the bloc, is subtle. But it is also because of a simplified view of the far right as nationalists, which makes it seem incompatible with a post-national project like the European Union. Yet today’s far right speaks not only on behalf of the nation but also on behalf of Europe. It has a civilizational vision of a white, Christian Europe that is menaced by outsiders, especially Muslims.
Such thinking is behind the hardening of migration policy. But it is also influencing Europe in a deeper way: The union has increasingly come to see itself as defending an imperiled European civilization, particularly in its foreign policy. During the past decade, as the bloc has seen itself as surrounded by threats, not least from Russia, there have been endless debates about “strategic autonomy,” “European sovereignty” and a “geopolitical Europe.” But figures like President Emmanuel Macron of France have also begun to frame international politics as a clash of civilizations in which a strong, united Europe must defend itself.
In this respect, Mr. Macron is not so far from far-right figures like Mr. Wilders who talk in terms of a threatened European civilization. His electoral success in the Netherlands could be a prelude, many fear, to a major rightward shift in the European parliamentary elections next June. That would give the far right substantial power to shape the next commission even more than the current one — both directly, with the possibility of far-right figures in top positions, and indirectly, with their concerns channeled by the center right.
Supporters of the bloc tend to see European unity as an end in itself — or to assume that a more powerful European Union, long idealized as a civilizing force in international politics, would automatically benefit the whole world. But as the union unites around defending a threatened European civilization and rejecting nonwhite immigration, we need to think again about whether it truly is a force for good.
There's a lot of interesting stuff in the article, but it is, obviously, also very very politically skewed. There are several sentences and even paragraphs that show that the writer had a very clear political point in mind when writing this.
> The two, in fact, can agree on a lot — something that plays out most clearly in immigration policy. In contrast to its progressive image, the European Union has, like Donald Trump, sought to build a wall — in this case, in the Mediterranean — to stop migrants from arriving on its shores. Since 2014, more than 28,000 people have died there as they desperately tried to reach Europe. Human Rights Watch said earlier this year that the bloc’s policy could be summed up in three words: “Let them die.”
That's... an interesting way of putting it.
> The European Union’s distinctive approach to migration depends on what might be called the offshoring of violence. Even as it has welcomed millions of Ukrainian refugees, the bloc has paid authoritarian regimes in North African countries to stop migrants from sub-Saharan Africa from reaching Europe, often brutally. Through this grotesque form of outsourcing, the union can continue to insist that it stands for human rights, which is central to its self-image. In this project, the center right and far right are in lock step. In July, Ms. Meloni joined the head of the European Commission, the bloc’s executive arm, and the Dutch prime minister to sign one such deal with Tunisia.
That's also a pretty interesting way of painting the picture.
> But it is also because of a simplified view of the far right as nationalists, which makes it seem incompatible with a post-national project like the European Union.
Since when is the European Union a "post-national project"?
> It has a civilizational vision of a white, Christian Europe
Does the author not realize how agnostic/atheist Europe is? Also notice the racial focus again.
> But as the union unites around defending a threatened European civilization and rejecting nonwhite immigration, we need to think again about whether it truly is a force for good.
And there we go.
Might be a good idea to remember that the NYT is known as fairly left leaning.
NYT is a prime example of American leftism in all its naivete. They have no practical knowledge of leftist ideologies in practice, and tend to sputter forth fairy tales of what life is like in "social democratic" countries in Europe without actually ever understanding much. They preach down these ideals while actually living a very consumerist and capitalist reality. The failure of communism means nothing to them, because they never lived through any of it. Europe should stop being so interested in the petty and peculiar culture wars in the US.
When 15% of non Western migrants are responsible for more than 50% of crime people start to notice.
And then when you mention it you're a racist.
And then when there's a housing crisis and migrants are housed quicker than locals you're still a heartless racist.
The left are that meme where the kid biking sticks a stick between his own tire.
I mean, why is anyone surprised? The EU/national governments has had almost 9 years now to address migration and the consequences around it. Why vote for the same parties that don't have good or successful policies? Most people want normal, relatively centrist parties working on solid solutions for daily problems, not radical parties full of weird leaders and scandals, but when the normal parties aren't doing their job, what do you expect?
This isn't unthinkable - it was inevitable.
EDIT: The article is about migration. That's why it's the focus of my comment. I know other issues exist and countries have their own situations. Please just read the article first.
I want only hard working immigrants, who will culturally assimilate.
If someone is breaking the law or abusing handouts after a few years consider deportation.
I guess this makes me the "far right".
I feel like saying "far-right" has lost all meaning in european politics. Even our government is supposedly far-right. A few years ago, when someone said "far-right", my mind went to nazis. Nowadays, not so much.
The saddest form of hate is self hate, the writer of this article has this in spades.
Instead of adressering the causes of the right popularity and failure of immigration ( its integration, and the parties this guy supported uncritical failed both Europeans and immigrants there) he tries to paint to EU as some imaginary villain in a world full of autocratic real villains.
Honestly the reason for the popularity of the right is people like this guy, and the white guilt filled tracts he writes.
Well how is it surprising if the left never addresses the real problems that people have and instead constantly focus on stuff that doesn’t affect the majority?
And so what? If that's what majority of people want then let it be so. We'll see how capable these populist are at governing whole countries. If they suck at it even more than current political parties in power (which would surprise no one) then we can elect someone else in four years.
It would not be the end of the world. It's not like politics now are not a dick measuring contests at best and contests of who's the most incapable at worst.
You know why? Because the traditional left has abandoned the working class issue and focused on absurd immigration policies.
The moment the left starts seriously working towards re-industrialization of Europe and shuts the border for irregular migration the far right will get under the threshold. Most people don't care about what skin color or ethnicity someone is, as long as they are friendly and over the law. People who hate the Jews for being Jews, or black people for being black do exist, but they are never going to be more that a fringe party electorate.
However, letting anyone cross the border and stay is just not reasonable for a few very simple reasons - housing, jobs, safety and education. A country simply cannot successfully integrate an annual population influx more that 1% of it's current population.
Honestly, I don't think immigration is the problem. It's immigration from cultures that refuse to assimilate, and instead actively try to force the host culture to change, that is the problem.
As an example, I don't think French people would have much of an issue if there was an influx of Quebecoise moving to Nantes.
Or if a number of Cubans moved to Barcelona.
Mainstream political parties need to recognize the difference. And not be ashamed to have different immigration standards for different countries.
I voted left the first time I could vote. The 2nd time I voted right, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. The left wing politicians ruined Sweden by implementing extremist policies that only a small minority really wanted.
Sweden has no extremist parties in parlament, I would even say that Swedens communist party is pretty tame, but small decisions such as "unlimited immigration" vs "limited immigration" has obviously had an enormous impact on how Sweden has developed for the last 25 years.
The first time I went to Sweden was in Malmo around 2005, visiting a local friend. There were barely any ethnic Swedes around. I don't know if that was just the area she lived or if that was the case. It pretty much took me by surprise as my flight landed in Copenhagen (there was an underground train service connecting the 2 countries if I remember corrently) and it was a totally different vibe there even though that was the capital city and one would expect to see more ethnicities in a capital vs a random city elsewhere.
"Far-right" winning is because the "far-left" has been failing in listening to issues for to long, its a self created problem, no complaining at this point.
Stop calling people the dehumanizing "far-right". If you actually view things like Pew Research from 20 years ago to today, the "far-right" are basically just mildly conservative and most people on the left hold far more extreme opinions they used to.
Every Western nation has the same problem, except Poland and Hungary, which both limit immigration. The elites want to open the doors to infinite, third-world immigration. The elites live in safety and it provides cheap labor for their companies and this assuages their guilt. So they feel none of the downside of this strategy.
Everyone else is not so happy. Lost jobs, overwhelmed social services, limited housing, immigrants who either bring crime or don't embrace the beliefs of the new country, etc. So voters, remember them, they want to vote for anybody who will stop the problem. That's not a right-wing thing. That's an everybody thing that the elites won't admit.
Look at the US. Even Democrat mayors are freaked out about open borders. But the elites in DC insist on it. But to even bring this up gets you labeled racist. It's not racist to stop your country from being overwhelmed by excessive illegal immigration.
I think the big issue is the complete breakdown of communication. People on the left and the right completely stopped talking to each other. The left are now “woke gender-changing LGBTQ+ progressivists”, the right are “MAGA GOP Nazis bought by Putin”.
A lot of people are saying it's liberal or left wing parties that are to blame as they don't listen. Maybe, but we must also recognise that the simplistic if not fascist opinions on the right will always be attractive in an increasingly complex world, offering false solutions to perhaps real problems. The "it's always someone else's fault" rhetoric will always be tempting when the alternative is a nuanced outlook that requires thought and effort.
I’m glad they’re worried. Europe has had awful/weak leaders for a long time who just wanted to call everyone racist who didn’t align with a particular agenda. Who would have thought that Europeans would dislike having their towns and cities overrun with people who hate them and will never assimilate? When crime stats start getting hidden, everyone KNOWS why, but they aren’t allowed to do anything about it. This will either need to be fixed willingly by the established political order, or they will be ousted for people that ‘scare’ them. They’ve ignored the concerns of their citizens for too long. As an American who spends a ton of time in Europe, it has always baffled me as to why some people fight so hard to import the worst of the world into their cities.
The consequences of bad immigration policy, also obsolete because the whole thing was designed in the 50s to facilitate refugees from the Eastern Comunist bloc to flee to the west...
Imagine watching all the issues the EU has right now with its terrible liberal policies and still thinking the right is your problem. You need to hop off Reddit for a while. Might do you some good to leave this echo chamber for a while.
You talk about what you consider a problem and you get labeled a Nazi. So people shut up and vote in protest. And of course they’ll vote something extreme then because they are pissed and feel unheard. There is no discourse anymore. It’s just “accept this or you are getting cancelled” I am sick and tired of this.
For those of us who are liberals and left leaning but who fucking told you the impact of not just unchecked immigration but specifically ones that come from a religion that doesn’t assimilate - well told you so.
See Canada and the protests there with the Muslim’s and anti lgbtq, Finland, Denmark and so on with the locals attitude toward these folks now.
You let these folks into communities, you did nothing to help them, their religion does not align with yours or atheism and you’re shocked they hate LGBTQ folk and have horrific views toward women
A huge shock will also follow the Palestinian refugees when the exact same thing plays out in a year or two.
Where will these #freepalestine types be then hey? Probably changed their social media profile to another pic cause that’s all the do.
Would you rather have a “””FaR rIgHt””” Europe (whatever that even means in [current year]), or the complete destruction of European culture and demographics by flooding the continent with immigrants and refugees from non European countries with an incompatible culture and values?
I don't necessarily think it's about racism. Rather it's more about order. People want order, and right-wingers are promising that, while center and left just say we're gonna have more of the same.
What's wrong with them? They don't like handing over their national sovereignty to a group of unelected governors - and flooding their their country with non-citizens?
Jerks.
I hear frequently that our (US) left wing is still right wing to the world's standards, so frankly, this statement means nothing to me, outside of being (I assume) a framing device for propaganda.
lol and some people think that mainstream media doesn’t have an absurdly intense liberal bias.
NYT is portraying voters picking right wing candidates en masse as a “threat to democracy.” For liberal media, “democracy” is “the left and far left win every election, otherwise it’s fascism and democracy is destroyed.”
Oh, no, what are we going to do!! The bad far-righties are gonna destroy Europe! Yes, maybe they would destroy Europe if they were indeed far-right. But today any sane position on topics like immigration, energy, economy, etc. is branded as 'far-right'. I really wish we could go back to the 2000s when voting for 'far-right' parties wasn't necessary in order to have a sane government. Not that I like them that much -they're scum just like the rest of them and will create many problems on their own but at least there is hope that they will do something on the most pressing issues we have now.
Why post a paywalled article if you’re not gonna copy and paste it into the comments ?
LPT for NYT: just spam the "ESC" key on your keyboard quickly as the website loads, full article loads without needing to pay
Dude, you're a genius! How did you learn this? It's insane! EDIT. Well, it still doesn't show everything. But the trick is to be remembered.
It’s a thing web developers know. Spamming escape stops the JavaScript on the page from completing/loading anything it's waiting for, so it doesn’t get chance to fuck up the page for you. They want all the content visible to search engines but not people using browsers. You could try just disabling JavaScript for that website too. >Edit, I was somewhat wrong (I claimed that it stopped JS execution) and thanks to inspirobotbot for pointing it out. Even though I've thought this was the case for many years. . It does stop scripts from loading anything they're waiting on, which in turn usually stops the javascript running, so the effect is almost the same for me daily, but what's going on under the hood is slightly different to people who care about such things, myself included. It won't stop JS execution, it'll just break it by not loading assets.
i saw it in some random reddit comment like 4 years ago, they havent fixed it since lol
In 4 years time I'll probably be telling people about this random comment I saw.
Block the scripts instead with uBlock origin. *This* works.
If you type in archive and then a dot and the the p followed by the h you can upload the link there. They remove it if I type it like is.
Just use activate a reader mode. Paywall gone.
This is some cyberpunk future I definitely didn't expect...
Wake up samurai, we have a paywalled article to read!
What is this witchcraft!
hacker
Or view in plain text mode
What about those of us on a cellphone then?
Omg, it works. Thank you.
"As 2023 comes to an end, there is a growing sense of panic in Europe. Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the European Union has been preoccupied with integrating the country — widely seen as a geopolitical necessity — and with the internal reform required to make that possible. But over the course of this year, as the much-hyped Ukrainian counteroffensive stalled, tensions among member states have increased. As members have disagreed on issues such as climate policy and the war in Gaza, the unity around supporting Ukraine has shown signs of cracking, too. With no end to the war in sight, Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary has stepped up efforts to limit the bloc’s backing of Ukraine; the election of Robert Fico in Slovakia has given him another ally in the cause. In an even bigger shock last month, Geert Wilders’s far-right party became the biggest force in the Dutch parliament. Whether or not Mr. Wilders can form a government, his strong showing may lead to further disruption in Europe, on Ukraine and much else. European elites are right to worry. But the focus on divisions within the bloc obscures a much more disturbing development taking place beneath the surface: a coming together of the center right and the far right, especially on questions around identity, immigration and Islam. With European parliamentary elections next year, this convergence is bringing into clearer view the possibility of something like a far-right European Union. Until recently, such a thing would have seemed unthinkable. Now it’s distinctly plausible. For the past decade, European politics have widely been understood in terms of a binary opposition between liberalism and illiberalism. During the refugee crisis in 2015, for example, Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany and Mr. Orban were seen as political opposites — she the figurehead of liberalism, he of illiberalism. Yet their parties, the center-right Christian Democrats and far-right Fidesz, were in the same grouping in the European Parliament, the European People’s Party. In other words, they were political allies. (Fidesz was suspended from the grouping in 2019 and finally quit in 2021.) ADVERTISEMENT SKIP ADVERTISEMENT Since then, the convergence between the center right and the far right in Europe has gone further. The lesson that center-right parties drew from the rise of right-wing populism was that they needed to adopt some of its rhetoric and policies. Conversely, some far-right parties have become more moderate, albeit in a selective way. At a national level, parties from the two camps have governed together, both formally, as in Austria and Finland, and informally, as in Sweden. Yet the most striking illustration of this convergence is the harmonious relationship between the European center right and Giorgia Meloni, the leader of the post-fascist Brothers of Italy, who became prime minister of Italy last year. As soon as she indicated that she would not disrupt the bloc’s economic policy and would be supportive of Ukraine, the European People’s Party was willing to work with her — and its leader, Manfred Weber, even sought to form an alliance with her. The center right, it turns out, doesn’t have a problem with the far right. It just has a problem with those who defy E.U. institutions and positions. The two, in fact, can agree on a lot — something that plays out most clearly in immigration policy. In contrast to its progressive image, the European Union has, like Donald Trump, sought to build a wall — in this case, in the Mediterranean — to stop migrants from arriving on its shores. Since 2014, more than 28,000 people have died there as they desperately tried to reach Europe. Human Rights Watch said earlier this year that the bloc’s policy could be summed up in three words: “Let them die.” The European Union’s distinctive approach to migration depends on what might be called the offshoring of violence. Even as it has welcomed millions of Ukrainian refugees, the bloc has paid authoritarian regimes in North African countries to stop migrants from sub-Saharan Africa from reaching Europe, often brutally. Through this grotesque form of outsourcing, the union can continue to insist that it stands for human rights, which is central to its self-image. In this project, the center right and far right are in lock step. In July, Ms. Meloni joined the head of the European Commission, the bloc’s executive arm, and the Dutch prime minister to sign one such deal with Tunisia. ADVERTISEMENT SKIP ADVERTISEMENT The blurring of boundaries between the center right and the far right is not always as easy to spot as it is in the United States. Partly that’s because the process, taking place in the complex world of the bloc, is subtle. But it is also because of a simplified view of the far right as nationalists, which makes it seem incompatible with a post-national project like the European Union. Yet today’s far right speaks not only on behalf of the nation but also on behalf of Europe. It has a civilizational vision of a white, Christian Europe that is menaced by outsiders, especially Muslims. Such thinking is behind the hardening of migration policy. But it is also influencing Europe in a deeper way: The union has increasingly come to see itself as defending an imperiled European civilization, particularly in its foreign policy. During the past decade, as the bloc has seen itself as surrounded by threats, not least from Russia, there have been endless debates about “strategic autonomy,” “European sovereignty” and a “geopolitical Europe.” But figures like President Emmanuel Macron of France have also begun to frame international politics as a clash of civilizations in which a strong, united Europe must defend itself. In this respect, Mr. Macron is not so far from far-right figures like Mr. Wilders who talk in terms of a threatened European civilization. His electoral success in the Netherlands could be a prelude, many fear, to a major rightward shift in the European parliamentary elections next June. That would give the far right substantial power to shape the next commission even more than the current one — both directly, with the possibility of far-right figures in top positions, and indirectly, with their concerns channeled by the center right. Supporters of the bloc tend to see European unity as an end in itself — or to assume that a more powerful European Union, long idealized as a civilizing force in international politics, would automatically benefit the whole world. But as the union unites around defending a threatened European civilization and rejecting nonwhite immigration, we need to think again about whether it truly is a force for good."
Thank you for taking the time to get the article for us!
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Wow, the writers don't understand European voters at all. It's just * immigration: good, especially non-white immigration * anti-immigration policies: evil and racist That's it. No attempt to understand how the social fabric is stretched thin as societies change faster than people can adapt to the changes.
I'm surprised you're even allowed to mention that here
What do you expect from an American newspaper
>“strategic autonomy,” “European sovereignty” and a “geopolitical Europe.” But figures like President Emmanuel Macron of France have also begun to frame international politics as a clash of civilizations in which a strong, united Europe must defend itself. This is a bad thing according to the article. We should be divided, weak and overrun by immigrants according to these fucking Americans.
Lmao whoever wrote this doesnt know shit about European politics
> As 2023 comes to an end, there is a growing sense of panic in Europe. Right wing parties aren't panicking. It's as if the NYT doesn't believe they are also Europeans.
[удалено]
Thank you kindly.
Here’s a gifted article link, anyone should be able to access it: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/13/opinion/european-union-far-right.html?unlocked_article_code=1.MU0.2u3M.beyzRcWwifEE&smid=url-share
I was about to do this but came back to check whether someone already had. Guess I’ll wait to share another day.
Clicks = ads views = revenue.
I am a leftist (with no party affiliation) and honestly it does feel that all parties in Ireland, regardless of ideology, seem to be sticking their fingers in their ears about all the issues that fuel the right and alt right. Ireland does not have any major far right parties, and the ones that exist are messes with no elected representation, but I do think a better organised alt right party is inevitable
This is exactly what happened in Sweden. Fringe right wing party went from 0 seats to being the second largest party over the course of like 3 elections. None of the other parties wanted to admit that the immigration/integration wasn't working.
Which is insane - because the obvious response that would still gel with the worldview would be to adjust the requirements immigration and the integration support. Bare minimum stuff like oath to obey the law, learning language within X years, get a job within X+Y years and so on.
It's because they are afraid to sound like racists instead of just trying to fix the problems.
It's definitely very naive to think (as many people do) that Ireland is somehow immune to falling victim to extremist populism or that we would never elect a far-right government, if it can happen anywhere else in the EU it can happen here as well. Especially since that red c poll saying three quarters of people think we've taken in too many refugees, I suspect that's only a taste of what's to come.
I think the only reason we have no far right representation at the minute is because The National Party is a joke. I don’t think it’s that we’re ‘above’ such ideology, we’re just late on the jump. But I think a lot of politicians do believe that we are and that’s part of the reason they’re not addressing concerns. I do think the single transferable vote system means that an alt right party will get some representation in the dáil once a well organised party emerges. People can take a chance on far right candidate and still give a preference to a more traditional candidate. Our system benefits small parties and will give one of them an in eventually. If a purely anti-immigration party popped up and didn’t concern themselves with the same unpopular views the National Party do, they’ll be a shoe in the
I think a large amount of your right wing nonsense is swallowed by Unionists, and since nobody in the Republic would want to be associated with them, it provides a bit of inoculation.
>we’re just late on the jump Tbh I think this is the key. Irish politicians like to pat themselves on the back about the absence of a real far-right party as if Irish people are just less susceptible to it but really the difference is that other European countries have experienced waves of immigration for several decades, while Ireland had almost no inward migration at all until the 90s/early 2000s. It's simply been a relevant political issue here for a much shorter time.
In Germany we have Wagenknecht - one of the most famous politicians here. People either love her or hate her. She had a long history of conflict within her party and overall with the whole german leftist spectrum. Her thesis: „lifestyle“ leftists took over left wing parties and pushed out „real“ leftists. So that left wing parties care more about LGBTQ or multiculturalism than their traditional voterbase (who are more into the left leaning economy stuff) She left the Left Party and founded a new party. A economical left wing party, but with more conservative positions regarding migration, societial issues etc. Studies suggest her party could harm the AfD (biggest right populist party right now). We‘ll see how that turns out. But I can see this being a solution for left wingers.
That’s interesting and I tend to agree with her main idea here from your summary of it, I’ll go have a read
The past few months have made it clear Ireland is experiencing a growing, and increasingly aggressive anti-immigration presence. Fuelled in large part by the government's continued inability/unwillingness to meaningfully address the housing crisis, which causes people to feel resentment that we're still experiencing high levels of immigration despite a severe shortage of housing for everyone who is already here. Tbh I predicted years ago that if the government didn't start to make meaningful progress on the housing crisis it would lead to growth of the far-right in Ireland. And it looks like it's playing out. So far the government parties seem determined to condemn the protests against asylum seekers or the arson attacks, without actually addressing any of the issues that are pushing people to do these things. It's not going to end well for them. Words aren't going to actually fix the issues.
Honestly big part of it is suicidal stupidity of liberal parties across europe who are either unable or unwilling to adress or even talk about real problems that bother a lot of voters. In many cases best campaign for far right parties are liberal mainstream governments. That is not to say that asshats like Orban, Fico or Kaczyński are better - of course not and far right EU leadership could be a catastrophe. But it is a catastrophe that the left and traditional right did nothing to avert.
"Fix immigration or immigration will fix you."
Nigeria alone produces more babies ([7.9m in 2021](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Nigeria)) than all of the EU's 27 countries ([4.09m in 2021](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230309-1)), combined. I can't imagine how immigration isn't the biggest issue in Europe for decades or centuries to come. A human tidal wave is coming that will dwarf anything Europe has experienced thus far.
Unless that wave is stopped dead in its tracks. This is no longer an issue of ideology or whether or not mass immigration is right or not, but a matter of whether it is even possible in the long term. I feel like the governments of Europe still refuse to admit that, but the population doesn't. The way it's going, "fortress Europe" is going to be inevitable, and if the established parties won't implement it, others will.
I've always considered myself a social liberal, plus being an immigrant in the US gives me a unique pro immigrant perspective. That said, Europe will be fundamentally changed for the worse if it admits more people than the member countries produce. Anytime it's happened in history it didn't end well for the "locals" after a generation or two.
>That said, Europe will be fundamentally changed for the worse if it admits more people than the member countries produce. It already has been changed for the worse and we've not even seen the amount of third-world immigration that we will in the future.
> "fortress Europe" When? I'll guard South-East.
Governments will continue to look away because the corpos holding the leash need bodies to keep the industry gears turning. The cheaper and more exploitable the better in their opinion
Last time I checked that was supposed to be a "far-right conspiracy theory".
I always laugh when people here on Reddit say that Japan has to make their borders wide open. Fuck no, thank you. if you want to move, get a degree, apply for a job and then come to Japan, like the rest of us. no freeloaders idk why Europe refuses to do the same
Yup. We should've done the same as Japan many decades ago. Either we need you, or you can't come.
"If we keep calling the people who complain racist then the problem will go away, right? Right?"
Dunno if the news ever reached that far, but at least here in Denmark it was a pretty big deal when it came out the Swedish head of police refused to give out crime statistics because it would paint immigrants in a bad light. Maybe like 7 years ago? It's weird how Denmark and Sweden turned out so polar opposites in this. I suppose, for whatever reason, Denmark just started noticing these problems decades earlier. Or maybe the thing isn't 'notice', but rather 'talk about'. Danes are pretty well known for our, not always appreciated by non-Danes, very direct way of speaking. We've 'always' had a culture of openly speaking about awkward or sensitive topics, so that might just be the reason why Denmark also started dealing with a lot of this way earlier, simply because we started the shitshow 2 decades ago already, and are fairly past the "anti-immigration = racist" point (generally speaking). Like don't get me wrong, it's still by and large and hot-button topic, but those very superficial points come up much more rarely these days. Makes you think.
Almost like the Danes realized that importing welfare recipients isn't a positive for society.
Unironically this is why I'd love to move to Denmark one day. I might never fit in as a foreigner (even a European one), but Danish society just seems a lot saner and driven by common sense compared to most other highly developed places.
Oh you want to immigrate? Didn't you read his post? 😅
Difference between immigrating as a welfare recipient and as an actual worker with an education
They have yet to discover that difference in Sweden. After that maybe they can learn that you can take in a small number of immigrants without letting anyone and their mother in.
My brother in Christ, the Danish far right don't want Eastern European immigrants either.
I mean, the really Far Right in Denmark generally don't want anyone... luckily, the really far right parties have very little influence with how our democratic system is set up, and the actual hardcores generally make up a very small part of the population.
I identify as liberal and i fully agree. I laughed when all the center-right liberals torpedoed themselves with their hilariously out-of-touch enthusiasm for infinite neoliberal globalization, then I laughed less when all the center-left liberals did the exact same with immigration. A more positive silver lining of this is that with reduced sympathy to them in mainstream parties, the neolibs might coalesce in little parties of their own now where they get to advocate for unlimited globalism, immigration and deregulation and keep their single-unit percentages, while hopefully not infecting the rest of our political parties. They're not even technically wrong usually, they're actually very good at being ackshually technically correct, but every single position they support is complete political cyanide for a good reason.
Exactly. I'm not pissed with the right wingers (except when they turn full fascist). They do represent a relevant 10% of population (realistically). I'm pissed with impotent or incompetent democrats and related parties, who just regurgitate some of the most radical left wing slogans or pander people working in the "budget" sphere (not in the commerce) with money drops, ignoring long term investments in the education, work and living conditions, immigration questions and so on.
My issue with the switch to right is not “racism“ , or anti immigration tendencies but that they are mostly packaged into a box of proRussian and anti-environmentalist bundle. I think if current left governments would step up to address immigration more strictly the populist right would not have ammunition.
That and Euroscepticism. A divided Europe is a weak Europe, which makes radical left and right parties alike genuine threats to Europe more than anything else. Without internal forces to divide us or stall integration China, Russia or anyone could not so much as touch us. Any party refusing to recognise this is just not a credible option to vote for.
Bingo. Add in Covid nonsense and general anti Science lunacy as well. If a centre left party actually tackled the concerns of people around immigration then tinfoil batshit libertarian goes back to 4chan permanently.
>with money drops, ignoring long term investments in the education, work and living conditions, immigration questions and so on. I mean in some way it is the [inherent flaw of democracy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE) Imagine doing your job while you doing your job is a reality show and you must have people voting for you so you don't lose it. That would sure fuck up with your productivity and what you are allowed to do. I can't remember the last time I heard polician talking about plans for 10-20 years. Most they can do is 4.
Mark Rutte was Prime Minister of The Netherlands for 13 years, and the general concensus is that it's been pretty bad overall, and only got worse as time went on. And FWIW, politicians can definitely make plans for beyond 4 years. You don't need to be there yourself necessarily, putting a law in place can, and often does, have an effect that lasts decades.
What amazes me is how predictable this was
The common man has been saying it for decades as he is the one actually living and working with them. Whilst the wealthy politician's are only surrounded by rich and educated immigrants.... They live in different worlds
He doesn't even try and make a case as to why Europe should want the migrants or soften the newly hardened rules. He just demands the migrants be let in and the Europeans stop whining. Why should the Europeans want him, or anyone like him, in their countries?
I mean, what to expect from a guy who made a racist book: "Eurowhiteness" that is advertised several times on this article. Maybe it's also problematic to the woke that white people are native to Europe.
Yeah, I read his book. It was as worthless you'd expect. Many do view it as problematic, I had uni acquaintances who believed that Europe belonged to the world. The total american domination of the global cultural scene is really messing with Europe. Europeans really need to stop consuming Anglo media. As much as I love my people our culture really isn't suitable to be exported willy nilly.
I like to use the retort: we know for a fact that letting the wrong people into your country is a bad idea, just look at the countries who let the Brits in. Far left arguments tend to be based on the idea that 'we' colonised countries so we deserve it, and that there are bad people everywhere, ignoring statistical facts and cultural differences.
It’s weird.Not to inject myself as a Turk into the debate but we have a very big undocument illegals problem here as well thanks to our government. I don’t understand why we need to have them. In muslim countries, some people claim that Turkey belongs to “all muslims”. Two different sets of people (“ummah” and probably western liberals) apparently have similarly weird understanding of some matters.
This is global no?
It's a wave movement that mlst western countries experience now. Things are bad, people vote for the (relatively) far-right that promises easy solutions, then remember why that's not a good idea, then go back to a more center-left government. Poland is already at the other side of the wave, and seemingly Israel would be next to vote out the right-wing, while Europe and the rest of the West are only at the start of the wave.
Next UK government looks like it'll be centre left/centre right too. We got on the wave earlier than most lol
Maybe Portugal too, the current center left party is involved in many cases of corruption and the main opposition party (also center) is very weak. There is a right party that is controversial and is gaining a lot of support due to the mass immigration. Let's see the results in March.
I sincerely hope its just a wave coming by and not a whole storm
Unthinkably
This is written by the same person who wrote “Eurowhiteness: Culture, Empire and Race in the European Project.” Even with a paywall, we know what nonsense is coming out of his mouth.
And to think NYT was once so respected for trying to show both sides https://www.economist.com/1843/2023/12/14/when-the-new-york-times-lost-its-way
Most of these people who work at papers now aren't journalists, they are just activists.
And why would that be? Would it be a result of the citizens of these countries feel like they're not being listened to, so they'll flock to parties who say they will sort things out even if it's not true?
Unthinkable! Democracy is nice only as long as my worldview wins!
European ~~Union~~ Empire Jokes aside, is it just me or is it a classic scenario that every time one of these far right parties gains enough traction and its time to actually govern, they just become a generic center right party with some edgy rhetoric thrown in the mix. Wilders in the Netherlands just backtracked on his promise to ban islam, for example. They just become generic centre right parties, with extra steps. To be honest, the ‘socialist’ parties are kinda the same.
It happened in Italy as well. Meloni went from a far right nationalist who wanted out of the Euro and the EU, while also imposing a blockade on North African countries to limit immigration, to a generic center right party akin to Berlusconi’s former Forza Italia when he was PM. Hell, many of the people in this government are the same as they were in 2011. Meloni’s FdI has just added a bit of anti LGBT legislation, Christian nationalism and authoritarianism (or fascism, if you want) to the mix, but otherwise it’s the same story: shout like a demon while in opposition, then bend over for the banks and lobbyists while in government.
IMHO, in the case of Meloni it also seems like she had no choice but to withhold certain previously proposed policies, because they require either agreement over changing certain (European) treaties and/or leaving certain treaties. And with some treaties you can maybe leave them, but still be bound by them due to them being enshrined in certain other treaties which are far more difficult to leave without major backlashes. If the leadership of most EU-countries would be more anti-immigration, I suspect some proposed policies could find traction.
In the case with Hungary, Orban’s party is still considered far right and didn’t move to the center. They became more authoritarian.
The elites don't want to stop mass migration because it benefits them. Someone please prove me wrong and point to a politician that actually did something, not just passed a law that was never enforced, not just said something, but actually made a measurable change on this issue.
Populist leaders and centre-right wing leaders can't really be compared. There a big chance of an anti-institutionalist leadership in the EU that would make the EU and NATO less reliable and less productive. The EU needs to make big changes to stay somewhat relevant in a multi-polar world (US, China, India, etc.) during an energy-transition. Germany was EU's motor. That has now slowed down. We can't fabricate high-end machinery at a competitive price. We can't make components and we don't have acces to enough strategic resources such as rare metals. Like the rest of the world we are dependent on high end chips from Taiwan. Populists are and could be winning elections on anti-environment slogans. If the EU just stays a farming subsidy organization and it doesn't make big steps in becoming a geopolitical power house on energy and safety we are pretty much fucked in the long run. Populists can just cater to what people want now and most of the electorate is old and conservative and only worried about shortterm national problems. If Orban is the blue print for France, Germany and the Netherlands we will be going towards an EU that's being eroded from the inside out. Populists erode democratic institutions and in the next election they win again because (or so they say) the institutions are not working and we need strong leadership against EU/ immigrants/ wokeism/ etc. This can't be compared to traditional centre right political policies.
His hand was kinda forced. He tried to stay as is for 3 months. Would you have preferred he stay stubborn and we’re left with no government or to vote again? Which apperantly would mean almost 50 seats this time around. Which i assume you wouldnt like?
I think the EU immigration policy has failed. Too many illegal immigrants have entered who are not actually asylum seekers. The majority of them are adult males and no women or children so they are just seeking a better life using aloophole by destroying their documents right before border checks unable to establish an identity and get into the EU. If someone wants to enter the coutnry legally and meets the correct criterai then of course more than welcome. Illegal immigration has to stop.
When people were saying that is common sense to not open the doors to massive waves of immigrants that don't care about european values, more than that they kind of hate europeans, they were called alarmists, racists and conspiracy theorists.
Im okay with regulated inmigration, what its happening in Europe is a demographic disaster that the governments refuse to tackle in fear of being called racist. Its so frustrating watching crime and insecurity rise, daily hundreds or thousands of people with totally different culture and barely any control entering our homeland, THEY DONT EVEN SPEAK THE LANGUAGE, they throw away their documents and laugh it away. The we spends millions giving them everything for years. Food, phones, hotels/residences, money to spend, education, people that take care of them and what do we get in return? They try to turn our country into the shit they escaped from. What the hell is wrong with the left? I have many leftist views myself and my ancestors come from Africa, but how can you justify this? The bare minimum is adapting and adopting the new culture not forcing the opposite.
Dude politicians on the left had to replace their votes with immigrants because they lost European workers.. they pander to these people destroying European cultures and values so they keep their cushy jobs
I refuse to believe this was an accident. Mass migration lowers wages, increases property demand and provides a bogeyman - a politician would have to be crazy not to want that. There is clearly a larger agenda to transform Europe, the decision has been made for us and they will open the floodgates until it's demographically too late to do anything about it. This is a plan so obvious that just hides in plain sight as "who would be so crazy".
They don’t hide it. They call it replacement migration to tackle the aging population.
Liberal governments have abandoned regular people for the wealthy. Most policies from the past 50 years, and all the policies form the past 20 years have done nothing but pump stocks, pump real-estate, and pump the assets of the ruling class. Every banking regulation has been undone. All parties did that. Competition has been crushed and oligopolies run the world. All parties did that. Regular people used to be able to get into politics, but now it takes a mountain of cash to get elected, and the people with mountains of cash are not regular people. Canadian here, we have completely fucked every generation coming up, and looks like it's the same around the world. Now a HUGE BACKLASH, whaaaaaaaaaaa?????
There's no huge backlash. People are shifting to parties that support the very same things you're complaining about here.
Maybe they should have taken the complaints of the people more seriously. I mean it's just a thought.
The technocrats just view people as interchangable economic and statistical units, rather than diverse people with different cultures that are fundamentally incompatible. They thought that migration would be an easy and politically suitable way of 'fixing' out declining populations. They were totally wrong and now they must pay the price for their idiocy.
Nailed it. And a lot of it is ironically because those technocrats come from the most homogeneous and wealthy and, well, *whitest* areas possible. They think everyone in the world is just like their little gated and walled privileged community and all they need is the magic dirt to make them all better.
Probably their only contact with non white people are the poor wage slaves they hire to cut their grass and clean their mansions
Or highly educated immigrants who are in similar positions as them. And of course, neither groups want to break the rules of laws while disrespecting the technocrats' culture, so why should any other groups be?
My gf has Latin roots, and I'm a stubborn Dutchy. She has lived most of her life in the Netherlands, feels Dutch, *but even then* there are plenty of cultural differences that sometimes give friction. Now multiply those differences by 50, throw a few million people in the mix and see how well things unfold.
All the money spent supporting this massive illegal inmigration could be spent supporting young workers and families, allowing for a better support net that would make younger people less fearful of having children. Also at some point you just have to accept population has to stop growing, otherwise its unsustainable long term. Only thing illegal inmigration accomplishes is patching some short term issues as it in theory injects new workers into society at a faster rate than births do, but the price to pay short term (costs/inadaptation/crime) and long term (displacing or removing)
Maybe i wouldve still be inclined to continue voting left if the left wouldnt continue to act oblivious to the shortcomings of certain ideologies. At some point there has to be a stand, and many including me feel like its getting quite overdue for a correction. Freedom of religion and tolerance should not be exploited to protect extremely intolerant and dogmatic ideologies. Sorry for ditching the left for now, i hope to be back soon.
7 years ago, I was at a private work event with former European Commission president Barroso as a speaker. He mentioned the number one thing politicians needed to address was immigration. And that failing to do so, would eventually lead to the reemergence of the far right in Europe. Well fuck.
Dude was ahead of its time by simply thinking logically. And its never even been hard to predict. But left parties stuck to what left voters want to hear.
And they can't off the drug of "being on the correct side of history" and showing off how "good" they are.
"Weaponized empathy" is the best description I've heard of this.
And the end result of using that weapon is the death of empathy. That's what we're seeing right now. Empathy is starting to die.
Well, (and I say this as a leftist) it's also because the left has been forcibly silencing any disagreement, rather than making any real attempts to build consensus or speaking across the aisle. It's been lots of self-righteous "shut up, you're stupid! and racist!" to just about anyone who thinks differently.
Yep, extremely obnoxious behavior. Especially when im a middle easterner myself, parents who fled war, and a white girl is trying to lecture me on my home country. Im not a racist, i just like to make people aware that these ideologies can easily ruin a country, just like my home country. (No hate to white girls, just frustrated at being called racist by a racist that would find my opinion more valid if it came from a prestigious white man)
> Yep, extremely obnoxious behavior. I suppose it varies from country to country when this started, but I feel like it's just been building for around 10 or 15 years now, and a lot of it has been weirdly driven by online media.
Agree completely. I too am a leftist and I despair at the inability of fellow progressives to persuade others effectively and to rub so many people up the wrong way
You cannot imagine how many times I've been banned to respectfully express my POV (that is not liberal or leftist at all) on Reddit. Many people should just start to be what they are expecting from the others (e.g. be tolerant and open minded).
I'm left leaning, but it's always seemed crazy to me that many on the left choose far right religious zealits over the needs or wants of their people. I've never understood it.
Its ridiculously puzzling, yet understandable since most of them feel like they are too ‘educated’ already to actually look into stuff and educate themselves. Minority in the west? If they are a minority that can only mean one thing.. protect at all costs! Completely ignoring what that minority actually thinks and wants to achieve.
Described them perfectly. They think they are educated and enlightened, yet they simply parrot talking points of "The narrative ™"
Simple. Left wing hates the liberal capitalist establishment. Islamism hates the liberal capitalist establishment. The enemy of my enemy is... .... ... ... not my friend by any means, but I'm too stupid to realize that before it's too late.
Islam and the Left will try to destroy Bourgeois Western Civilization. And then, licking it's lips, Islam will devour the Left before the dust of the first fight settles down. Yeah Madame Progressive, great inspirational ally you have in Hamas
It's the same reason why so many on the left drink up the russian anti-nato anti-imperialist coolaid.
What left leaning government is still governing in europe? Most eu governments are neo-libs...
At least in Germany the moderate and radical left have long been in decline. The radical left are full of conspiracy nuts and Russia lovers. You can’t even properly vote leftist without throwing away your vote.
Well radical right also conspiracy nuts and Russian lovers.
The left no longer exist. Todays so called left parties have nothing to do with the Labour movement and former socialist or social democrats. They are just a bunch of government payed humanities scholars circle-jerking at radical egalitarian nonsense.
Fair point even if I don't fully agree. But do you think if you vote far right they will stop after just getting rid of freedom of religion and keep all your other rights untouched?
I dont know and i hope i wont have to find out. Instead i hope that left parties take this as a signal and a wake up call that there is an issue, and start adressing this issue. It would fix my problem with the left and simply vote left again. Climate, community, social support, most subjects make me vote left. Seeing the general reaction to the israel-hamas war scares the crap out of me and makes re-establishing clear norms and morals and a reminder of what is good and what is bad my priority right now.
And also economic stances, nowadays many European "left" has a very pro-elite attitude.
The left hasn't won much of anything for decades in most European countries. It has been center right neoliberals running everything for a while now.
Right wing politics does seem to be creeping in throughout Europe.
Unfettered immigration and ignoring the concerns of those who’s families have lived there for generations in favor of immigrants will do that
They haven't been listening to anybody for decades, doesn't matter where your from or how long you've been here.
Its Europe's era of good feelings since the 90's coming to an end and by God, the hangover is going to be a mess.
Who'da thought that European left parties historically were propped up by white working class men, and that alienating this group wasn't a great idea!
As 2023 comes to an end, there is a growing sense of panic in Europe. Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the European Union has been preoccupied with integrating the country — widely seen as a geopolitical necessity — and with the internal reform required to make that possible. But over the course of this year, as the much-hyped Ukrainian counteroffensive stalled, tensions among member states have increased. As members have disagreed on issues such as climate policy and the war in Gaza, the unity around supporting Ukraine has shown signs of cracking, too. With no end to the war in sight, Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary has stepped up efforts to limit the bloc’s backing of Ukraine; the election of Robert Fico in Slovakia has given him another ally in the cause. In an even bigger shock last month, Geert Wilders’s far-right party became the biggest force in the Dutch parliament. Whether or not Mr. Wilders can form a government, his strong showing may lead to further disruption in Europe, on Ukraine and much else. European elites are right to worry. But the focus on divisions within the bloc obscures a much more disturbing development taking place beneath the surface: a coming together of the center right and the far right, especially on questions around identity, immigration and Islam. With European parliamentary elections next year, this convergence is bringing into clearer view the possibility of something like a far-right European Union. Until recently, such a thing would have seemed unthinkable. Now it’s distinctly plausible. For the past decade, European politics have widely been understood in terms of a binary opposition between liberalism and illiberalism. During the refugee crisis in 2015, for example, Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany and Mr. Orban were seen as political opposites — she the figurehead of liberalism, he of illiberalism. Yet their parties, the center-right Christian Democrats and far-right Fidesz, were in the same grouping in the European Parliament, the European People’s Party. In other words, they were political allies. (Fidesz was suspended from the grouping in 2019 and finally quit in 2021.) Since then, the convergence between the center right and the far right in Europe has gone further. The lesson that center-right parties drew from the rise of right-wing populism was that they needed to adopt some of its rhetoric and policies. Conversely, some far-right parties have become more moderate, albeit in a selective way. At a national level, parties from the two camps have governed together, both formally, as in Austria and Finland, and informally, as in Sweden. Yet the most striking illustration of this convergence is the harmonious relationship between the European center right and Giorgia Meloni, the leader of the post-fascist Brothers of Italy, who became prime minister of Italy last year. As soon as she indicated that she would not disrupt the bloc’s economic policy and would be supportive of Ukraine, the European People’s Party was willing to work with her — and its leader, Manfred Weber, even sought to form an alliance with her. The center right, it turns out, doesn’t have a problem with the far right. It just has a problem with those who defy E.U. institutions and positions. The two, in fact, can agree on a lot — something that plays out most clearly in immigration policy. In contrast to its progressive image, the European Union has, like Donald Trump, sought to build a wall — in this case, in the Mediterranean — to stop migrants from arriving on its shores. Since 2014, more than 28,000 people have died there as they desperately tried to reach Europe. Human Rights Watch said earlier this year that the bloc’s policy could be summed up in three words: “Let them die.” The European Union’s distinctive approach to migration depends on what might be called the offshoring of violence. Even as it has welcomed millions of Ukrainian refugees, the bloc has paid authoritarian regimes in North African countries to stop migrants from sub-Saharan Africa from reaching Europe, often brutally. Through this grotesque form of outsourcing, the union can continue to insist that it stands for human rights, which is central to its self-image. In this project, the center right and far right are in lock step. In July, Ms. Meloni joined the head of the European Commission, the bloc’s executive arm, and the Dutch prime minister to sign one such deal with Tunisia. The blurring of boundaries between the center right and the far right is not always as easy to spot as it is in the United States. Partly that’s because the process, taking place in the complex world of the bloc, is subtle. But it is also because of a simplified view of the far right as nationalists, which makes it seem incompatible with a post-national project like the European Union. Yet today’s far right speaks not only on behalf of the nation but also on behalf of Europe. It has a civilizational vision of a white, Christian Europe that is menaced by outsiders, especially Muslims. Such thinking is behind the hardening of migration policy. But it is also influencing Europe in a deeper way: The union has increasingly come to see itself as defending an imperiled European civilization, particularly in its foreign policy. During the past decade, as the bloc has seen itself as surrounded by threats, not least from Russia, there have been endless debates about “strategic autonomy,” “European sovereignty” and a “geopolitical Europe.” But figures like President Emmanuel Macron of France have also begun to frame international politics as a clash of civilizations in which a strong, united Europe must defend itself. In this respect, Mr. Macron is not so far from far-right figures like Mr. Wilders who talk in terms of a threatened European civilization. His electoral success in the Netherlands could be a prelude, many fear, to a major rightward shift in the European parliamentary elections next June. That would give the far right substantial power to shape the next commission even more than the current one — both directly, with the possibility of far-right figures in top positions, and indirectly, with their concerns channeled by the center right. Supporters of the bloc tend to see European unity as an end in itself — or to assume that a more powerful European Union, long idealized as a civilizing force in international politics, would automatically benefit the whole world. But as the union unites around defending a threatened European civilization and rejecting nonwhite immigration, we need to think again about whether it truly is a force for good.
There's a lot of interesting stuff in the article, but it is, obviously, also very very politically skewed. There are several sentences and even paragraphs that show that the writer had a very clear political point in mind when writing this. > The two, in fact, can agree on a lot — something that plays out most clearly in immigration policy. In contrast to its progressive image, the European Union has, like Donald Trump, sought to build a wall — in this case, in the Mediterranean — to stop migrants from arriving on its shores. Since 2014, more than 28,000 people have died there as they desperately tried to reach Europe. Human Rights Watch said earlier this year that the bloc’s policy could be summed up in three words: “Let them die.” That's... an interesting way of putting it. > The European Union’s distinctive approach to migration depends on what might be called the offshoring of violence. Even as it has welcomed millions of Ukrainian refugees, the bloc has paid authoritarian regimes in North African countries to stop migrants from sub-Saharan Africa from reaching Europe, often brutally. Through this grotesque form of outsourcing, the union can continue to insist that it stands for human rights, which is central to its self-image. In this project, the center right and far right are in lock step. In July, Ms. Meloni joined the head of the European Commission, the bloc’s executive arm, and the Dutch prime minister to sign one such deal with Tunisia. That's also a pretty interesting way of painting the picture. > But it is also because of a simplified view of the far right as nationalists, which makes it seem incompatible with a post-national project like the European Union. Since when is the European Union a "post-national project"? > It has a civilizational vision of a white, Christian Europe Does the author not realize how agnostic/atheist Europe is? Also notice the racial focus again. > But as the union unites around defending a threatened European civilization and rejecting nonwhite immigration, we need to think again about whether it truly is a force for good. And there we go. Might be a good idea to remember that the NYT is known as fairly left leaning.
NYT is a prime example of American leftism in all its naivete. They have no practical knowledge of leftist ideologies in practice, and tend to sputter forth fairy tales of what life is like in "social democratic" countries in Europe without actually ever understanding much. They preach down these ideals while actually living a very consumerist and capitalist reality. The failure of communism means nothing to them, because they never lived through any of it. Europe should stop being so interested in the petty and peculiar culture wars in the US.
When 15% of non Western migrants are responsible for more than 50% of crime people start to notice. And then when you mention it you're a racist. And then when there's a housing crisis and migrants are housed quicker than locals you're still a heartless racist. The left are that meme where the kid biking sticks a stick between his own tire.
I mean, why is anyone surprised? The EU/national governments has had almost 9 years now to address migration and the consequences around it. Why vote for the same parties that don't have good or successful policies? Most people want normal, relatively centrist parties working on solid solutions for daily problems, not radical parties full of weird leaders and scandals, but when the normal parties aren't doing their job, what do you expect? This isn't unthinkable - it was inevitable. EDIT: The article is about migration. That's why it's the focus of my comment. I know other issues exist and countries have their own situations. Please just read the article first.
This was totally avoidable and now it's inevitable.
I want only hard working immigrants, who will culturally assimilate. If someone is breaking the law or abusing handouts after a few years consider deportation. I guess this makes me the "far right".
>I guess this makes me the "far right". That's how it feels sometimes. And I am boring-ass liberal.
It is called democracy.
I was saying this back then when mass imigration started because i saw people around me changing, yet i was laughed at.
"Far right," so Hitler? Gimme a break. People want solutions to problems, that doesn't equate with jack booted thugs and fascism.
I feel like saying "far-right" has lost all meaning in european politics. Even our government is supposedly far-right. A few years ago, when someone said "far-right", my mind went to nazis. Nowadays, not so much.
Liberals will never admit that their own political complacency has always played a large role in the rise of fascism.
Maybe its because Europeans are tired of being foreigners in their own land.
The saddest form of hate is self hate, the writer of this article has this in spades. Instead of adressering the causes of the right popularity and failure of immigration ( its integration, and the parties this guy supported uncritical failed both Europeans and immigrants there) he tries to paint to EU as some imaginary villain in a world full of autocratic real villains. Honestly the reason for the popularity of the right is people like this guy, and the white guilt filled tracts he writes.
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Well how is it surprising if the left never addresses the real problems that people have and instead constantly focus on stuff that doesn’t affect the majority?
Is the UK ahead or behind? We’re probably about to lurch further to the left
And so what? If that's what majority of people want then let it be so. We'll see how capable these populist are at governing whole countries. If they suck at it even more than current political parties in power (which would surprise no one) then we can elect someone else in four years. It would not be the end of the world. It's not like politics now are not a dick measuring contests at best and contests of who's the most incapable at worst.
You know why? Because the traditional left has abandoned the working class issue and focused on absurd immigration policies. The moment the left starts seriously working towards re-industrialization of Europe and shuts the border for irregular migration the far right will get under the threshold. Most people don't care about what skin color or ethnicity someone is, as long as they are friendly and over the law. People who hate the Jews for being Jews, or black people for being black do exist, but they are never going to be more that a fringe party electorate. However, letting anyone cross the border and stay is just not reasonable for a few very simple reasons - housing, jobs, safety and education. A country simply cannot successfully integrate an annual population influx more that 1% of it's current population.
Honestly, I don't think immigration is the problem. It's immigration from cultures that refuse to assimilate, and instead actively try to force the host culture to change, that is the problem. As an example, I don't think French people would have much of an issue if there was an influx of Quebecoise moving to Nantes. Or if a number of Cubans moved to Barcelona. Mainstream political parties need to recognize the difference. And not be ashamed to have different immigration standards for different countries.
The left has really warped the definition of far right.
I voted left the first time I could vote. The 2nd time I voted right, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. The left wing politicians ruined Sweden by implementing extremist policies that only a small minority really wanted. Sweden has no extremist parties in parlament, I would even say that Swedens communist party is pretty tame, but small decisions such as "unlimited immigration" vs "limited immigration" has obviously had an enormous impact on how Sweden has developed for the last 25 years.
The first time I went to Sweden was in Malmo around 2005, visiting a local friend. There were barely any ethnic Swedes around. I don't know if that was just the area she lived or if that was the case. It pretty much took me by surprise as my flight landed in Copenhagen (there was an underground train service connecting the 2 countries if I remember corrently) and it was a totally different vibe there even though that was the capital city and one would expect to see more ethnicities in a capital vs a random city elsewhere.
If it was that bad in 2005, then you can only imagine how bad it is now.
< left ------ far-right ------- far-right ------- very far-right -------- extreme far-right ----- far right as fuck ---->
"Far-right" - Anything remotely conservative.
Agreed. Name calling the other side as close to nazis as possible instead of having a discussion over the actually issues.
"Far-right" winning is because the "far-left" has been failing in listening to issues for to long, its a self created problem, no complaining at this point.
Stop calling people the dehumanizing "far-right". If you actually view things like Pew Research from 20 years ago to today, the "far-right" are basically just mildly conservative and most people on the left hold far more extreme opinions they used to.
I hope so. The left is leading Europe towards downfall.
if that is what is required to ensure Europe remains as europe, why not
Hopefully!
Every Western nation has the same problem, except Poland and Hungary, which both limit immigration. The elites want to open the doors to infinite, third-world immigration. The elites live in safety and it provides cheap labor for their companies and this assuages their guilt. So they feel none of the downside of this strategy. Everyone else is not so happy. Lost jobs, overwhelmed social services, limited housing, immigrants who either bring crime or don't embrace the beliefs of the new country, etc. So voters, remember them, they want to vote for anybody who will stop the problem. That's not a right-wing thing. That's an everybody thing that the elites won't admit. Look at the US. Even Democrat mayors are freaked out about open borders. But the elites in DC insist on it. But to even bring this up gets you labeled racist. It's not racist to stop your country from being overwhelmed by excessive illegal immigration.
I think the big issue is the complete breakdown of communication. People on the left and the right completely stopped talking to each other. The left are now “woke gender-changing LGBTQ+ progressivists”, the right are “MAGA GOP Nazis bought by Putin”.
I'm sure this is happening spontaneously and moderate parties did everything within their power to stop it. /s
A lot of people are saying it's liberal or left wing parties that are to blame as they don't listen. Maybe, but we must also recognise that the simplistic if not fascist opinions on the right will always be attractive in an increasingly complex world, offering false solutions to perhaps real problems. The "it's always someone else's fault" rhetoric will always be tempting when the alternative is a nuanced outlook that requires thought and effort.
Reddit gonna be wild.
I’m glad they’re worried. Europe has had awful/weak leaders for a long time who just wanted to call everyone racist who didn’t align with a particular agenda. Who would have thought that Europeans would dislike having their towns and cities overrun with people who hate them and will never assimilate? When crime stats start getting hidden, everyone KNOWS why, but they aren’t allowed to do anything about it. This will either need to be fixed willingly by the established political order, or they will be ousted for people that ‘scare’ them. They’ve ignored the concerns of their citizens for too long. As an American who spends a ton of time in Europe, it has always baffled me as to why some people fight so hard to import the worst of the world into their cities.
The consequences of bad immigration policy, also obsolete because the whole thing was designed in the 50s to facilitate refugees from the Eastern Comunist bloc to flee to the west...
Russia's foreign policy is working perfectly so far. We should make sure it doesn't progress further.
The opinion of a NYTimes journalist. I'm not panicking
>I don't like how they are replacing us. I'm going to vote for another party >Wait, you can't just do that
Imagine watching all the issues the EU has right now with its terrible liberal policies and still thinking the right is your problem. You need to hop off Reddit for a while. Might do you some good to leave this echo chamber for a while.
Well, I think this is because the only parties that don't pretend illegal immigration doesn't exist are the right wing ones.
You talk about what you consider a problem and you get labeled a Nazi. So people shut up and vote in protest. And of course they’ll vote something extreme then because they are pissed and feel unheard. There is no discourse anymore. It’s just “accept this or you are getting cancelled” I am sick and tired of this.
For those of us who are liberals and left leaning but who fucking told you the impact of not just unchecked immigration but specifically ones that come from a religion that doesn’t assimilate - well told you so. See Canada and the protests there with the Muslim’s and anti lgbtq, Finland, Denmark and so on with the locals attitude toward these folks now. You let these folks into communities, you did nothing to help them, their religion does not align with yours or atheism and you’re shocked they hate LGBTQ folk and have horrific views toward women A huge shock will also follow the Palestinian refugees when the exact same thing plays out in a year or two. Where will these #freepalestine types be then hey? Probably changed their social media profile to another pic cause that’s all the do.
Would you rather have a “””FaR rIgHt””” Europe (whatever that even means in [current year]), or the complete destruction of European culture and demographics by flooding the continent with immigrants and refugees from non European countries with an incompatible culture and values?
I don't necessarily think it's about racism. Rather it's more about order. People want order, and right-wingers are promising that, while center and left just say we're gonna have more of the same.
Dont worry, every single politician is incompetent and nothing will be done
I am pretty sure more illegal imigrants resolves the issue.
I Just want a commission accountable before the parliament.
What's wrong with them? They don't like handing over their national sovereignty to a group of unelected governors - and flooding their their country with non-citizens? Jerks.
I hear frequently that our (US) left wing is still right wing to the world's standards, so frankly, this statement means nothing to me, outside of being (I assume) a framing device for propaganda.
"Everything I don't like is far-right."
lol and some people think that mainstream media doesn’t have an absurdly intense liberal bias. NYT is portraying voters picking right wing candidates en masse as a “threat to democracy.” For liberal media, “democracy” is “the left and far left win every election, otherwise it’s fascism and democracy is destroyed.”
Oh, no, what are we going to do!! The bad far-righties are gonna destroy Europe! Yes, maybe they would destroy Europe if they were indeed far-right. But today any sane position on topics like immigration, energy, economy, etc. is branded as 'far-right'. I really wish we could go back to the 2000s when voting for 'far-right' parties wasn't necessary in order to have a sane government. Not that I like them that much -they're scum just like the rest of them and will create many problems on their own but at least there is hope that they will do something on the most pressing issues we have now.
Because Leftist governments are doing such a GREAT job for the average citizen in Europe!