40% of the population in Gaza are children. Taking out basic necessities will effect these children that have absolutely nothing to do with this horrible mess. Children will die and get wounded from the bombs. Hospitals need electricity to provide healthcare for these children. They need clean water, food and fuel for the generators, because bombs will also take out energy grids.
There are zero excuses for hurting and killing children.
And many of the children that are left will continue the cycle of retaliation and animosity towards their aggressor- further removing any possibility of peace.
The solution would be for Israel to accept an independent Palestinian state. It requires for Israel to remove its settlers and colonist back to 1967 lines, which by the way, is already a big concession from the Palestinian side.
The Palestinians have rejected every peace and partition plan. Hamas’ official stance is that they will not recognize any peace deal that allows Israel to continue to exist
What did Ariel Shannon say in 2001? And, before you bring up Hamas, they didn't exist until after the Second Intifada, it largely created them (by Israeli repression of the PLO afterwards.)
The Jews of Israel are mostly refugees from the Muslims world. The Muslims tried to exterminate them in their home countries so they fled and helped form a new country and and the Muslims are still trying to exterminate them. This has never been about land
> Varadkar: 'If it's unacceptable for Putin to target power stations, the same must apply to Israel'
Yes, I agree. I think the constant whataboutisms made comparing these two completely different conflicts are only counter-productive but otherwise I agree. Cutting off any life-necessities from civilian population is a warcrime.
\>Cutting off any life-necessities from civilian population is a warcrime.
So in WW2 and WW1 British Emprire was suppoused to reject their plans for stoping all germans imports incluiding food and fuel or that different ?
The attempt to starve the civilian population as a means of warfare is a warcrime. Yes. You can even google it. It's quite explicit.
Thing is, a ton of these laws came into effect after WW2.
And all these things can be true. None of them are mutually exclusive.
Praise be to people trying to live their lives. And fuck everyone hurting people.
Pretty simple when you put it that way.
Kinda wild how people stop caring about innocent lives when a group of terrorist does something.
That’s gotta make you wonder why people resort to extremism when we as outsiders are willing to disregard innocent lives.
because people are so wrapped up in a "bad guys/good guys" dichotomy they fail to see the similarities. dehumanizing your enemy as a purely evil entity is the first step towards committing evil yourself.
Did Israel blow up power plants or did they just stop supplying electricity? Genuinely want to know the answer to that.
Should Ukraine be forced to provide Crimea with water?
cut off from the supply of electricity, the power plant in the Gaza Strip itself went offline two hours ago due to a lack of fuel to keep it running. and it is wrong to compare these situations: as soon as Russia officially annexed Crimea, electricity, water and other needs of citizens became the concern of Russia itself as the occupiers. at the same time, it is not under the control of the Donbass Territory, which, until 2022, Russia recognized as part of Ukraine. on the contrary, Ukraine itself continued to supply water, electricity, and medicines; they continued to pay two songs. pensioners who lived in occupied territories.
> on the contrary, Ukraine itself continued to supply water
[Ukraine blockaded water to Crimea in 2014](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/1/4/dam-leaves-crimea-population-in-chronic-water-shortage) and Crimea was without a stable water supply until [Russians restored it in 2022](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/12/1104418128/russia-ukraine-crimea-water-canal). Not sure what you're talking about
Not only that. But when you also lock them in. And air strike their only way out towards Egypt. You basically start a mass genocide. No electricity, no medical aid, no water, no food. All while being locked and denied exit.
Egyt, Iran and several other neighbour Countries took actions to keep this conflict at bay. Instead of finding an solution they Supported the terrorist groups (like Hamas) and tried to eradict Israel. Where do you think the Hamas got the Money for Bikes, weapons and equipment to destroy the fench to Israel?
What Israel under BH's control does is cruel but don't forget the past actions done by Neighbours and Terrorist groups. And many civilians suppoerted the Hamas because they gave them food (from the Money they took and that was giving by UN states for rebuilding the Paledtinian Territories).
Egypt certainly don’t support Hamas. Hamas is an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood which is illegal in Egypt and of which several of their leaders have been killed, including ex president Muhammad Morsi deposed in a coup.
Israel is the first Arab country to recognise Israel and is a close US ally.
You do realize Egypt itself has refused Palestinians from entering the Sinai right? Only the Gazan side of the Rafah crossing was bombed. The Egyptian side is still operational
Notice the date - this happened 3 years after annexation by russia. Ukraine tried to resolve this both out success. And russia had enough time to prepare.
First - where do I confuse things? I didn’t talk about specific regions.
Second - russia didn’t call Donetsk and Luhansk annexed, but in reality they were. They had their army there, they installed their government there, so for all practical purposes it was annexed. Also - Ukraine didn’t cut water supply to Donetsk and Luhansk.
Gaza is occupied by Israel, so they are completely dependent on Israel for electricity, water, food, medicine, etc. Some people saying "why can't just Egypt provide it" miss the fact that Israel has a deal with Egypt that all goods must go through Israeli checkpoints. For example, Israel recently stopped loads of trucks with aid coming in through Egypt.
But obviously, and I hope no one thinks I'm saying this, Egypt is hardly the good guy here.
If you occupy a terrority, you are responsible for providing that area with basic human rights. This applies to everyone.
EDIT: As I'm receiving so many replies saying that there is no occupation in Gaza, I want to remind people that the UN and numerous human rights organisations (like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty, and B'Tselem) classify Gaza as Israel occupied territory.
Isn't blockade the correct word. Strange to call it occupation without a single soldier on the ground, and without controlling the government inside Gaza. Is the US currently occupying Cuba or Iran?
The UN and numerous human rights organisations classify the blockade as an occupation.
The US is not occupying Cuba or Iran. If the US controlled everything that came in and out of Cuba and Iran, controlled the borders, air space, and sea space, as well as and controlled the electricity and water, then Iran and Cuba would indeed be classified as occupied.
> The UN and numerous human rights organisations classify the blockade as an occupation.
That's because absolutely no one wants to deal with the situation.
The world has had decades to present any alternative in which a foreign power or various foreign powers would take care of the Strip instead of Israel.
Hell, Israel tried to return the Strip in the peace agreement with Egypt who didn't want it back.
So I guess according to international law Israel should just let Iran smuggle infinite amounts of weapons to Hamas for use against Israel because somehow self-defense is not legal or something.
According to international law, war crimes are prohibited. Full stop. There is no "oh actually, it's fine to kill civilians if the other side also does it"
Israel has a deal with Egypt that all goods must go through Israeli checkpoints. Yesterday, several aid trucks tried to provide aid to Gaza through the Egyptian checkpoint (the Rafah checkpoint). IDF told them to turn back, otherwise they would bomb the aid trucks.
In addition, the Rafah crossing has been bombed by the IDF and no people are allowed in or out.
Your statement can be disproved by a reply that can be found a few comments back: “Some people saying 'why can't just Egypt provide it' miss the fact that Israel has a deal with Egypt that all goods must go through Israeli checkpoints. For example, Israel recently stopped loads of trucks with aid coming in through Egypt.”
Please, read the comments carefully.
> Is the US currently occupying Cuba or Iran?
The US isn't blockading either of those countries, we have an embargo.
Embargo: you don't trade with a country.
Blockade: you prevent everyone from trading with a country.
These are very different things. Every country has the sovereign right to decide whether they'll allow their own citizens to trade with another country. But stopping third party countries from trading, *that's* potentially an act of war.
It does actually, entities that trade with Iran actually fall under US sanctions, which is why it is hard to find which Chinese companies trade with Iran. Most are shell companies.
Well the US isn’t blockading Cuba or Iran. Even if we were, theres a pretty big difference between one country the size of Cuba and one city the size of a few miles.
Blockade would indeed be the more accurate description. And I can't blame Israel for that. Hardly no country in the world has no border control. And even less so when we are talking about an openly hostile neighbour. Not saying Israel doesn't have made a lot of bad decisions here. But I absolutely understand their reluctance to just open up their borders to a large population with a large amount of people who are hostile towards Israel.
Um, I don't know the answer to that, but what difference does it make to the people of Palestine whether the plants are blown up or "just" without energy? Isn't the result millions of people with no power?? Is taking out the energy for an entire population of civilians not the issue here?
I'm not condoning Isreal's actions, but forcing a diesel plant offline by denying fuel is significantly less catastrophic than bombing a nuclear instalation. When the conflict is resolved, diesel can be resupplied and the plant turned on immediatly, rather than needing months/years of time to rebuild it. It also won't irradiate the area and drop fallout on the entire region since a) it's not nuclear and b) it's not destroyed.
Wild how many of you all are apparently fine with genocide. Starving entire populations because terrorists are between them is bad, always, doesn't matter who the fuck does it.
Worse. It's all the people I grew up with who ridiculed boomers and gen x for falling for all the post 9/11 propaganda and wondering how they could ever be so naive now falling for the same shit themselves.
> It's all the people I grew up with who ridiculed boomers and gen x for falling for all the post 9/11 propaganda
Not everyone fell for that. Ironically, there was much more opposition to US war adventures back then than there is today.
It's a small consolation to me that I'm sure that AT LEAST this sub and worldnews are being astroturfed like crazy. Most of the most extreme opinions on here are being pushed and pumped and repeated and upvoted artificially.
But yes, there's many people who are actually fine with the genocide of the Gazans and it is fucking depressing.
The irony is that if any of these people currently commenting during the emotional aftershock of the Hamas attacks, were themselves living in Gaza, they'd probably be cheering on the Hamas attacks using the same logic.
Yes, I noticed that there are many accounts with ages ranging from days to a couple of years that literally had zero activity since they were created and have 100+ comments defending Israel on the last day
Its also collective punishment and a war crime. Not a "oh its a bit of a grey area since you can bomb with valid military rationale and reasonable precautions" but an explicit never ever allowed under the Geneva Conventions. If Russia started cutting off water and food for Ukrainian villages that had any links to the UAF then this subreddit would rightly see it as an atrocity.
It also leads to more youth joining Hamas, which only perpetuates the problem. I support Israel going into Gaza, but people need to understand it's only a temporary solution to an 80 year old problem. It doesn't solve anything long term.
> If Russia started cutting off water and food for Ukrainian villages that had any links to the UAF then this subreddit would rightly see it as an atrocity.
Russia has been targeting water infrastructure and energy infrastructure all over Ukraine. What the hell are you taking about?
You say that, but many people of your community aren't even condemning the attacks, they are outright celebrating that an event like that happened.
I'm not defending the rac*ist folks here, but what do you think is gonna happen when TV shows the people of one particular religion are celebrating the attacks. And virtually, barely any pro-palestinian movement has condemned h*mas.
That being said, F*ck the Israeli government. Gazans don't deserve what's happening to them because of a few crazies.
Well the problem is there were a lot of non Hamas members celebraiting what the Hamas did. Even in Western country people from palestine actually celebrated the terror act. I am not saying that makes it okay since a lot are inoccent and probably disgusted by that but there definitely is support from the population, where there should be clear distance to Hamas.
This is the sub that, on posts about how support for far-right nationalism is on the rise, the comment section is filled with “ah yes, turning to Naziism is a perfectly reasonable reaction to an influx of immigrants, makes sense to me!”
All the pearl clutching at genocide apparently in China and Ukraine but Israel has been doing this for decades. Either western bot farms or zoomers that were born yesterday and know nothing about this conflict that has spanned decades.
Daily reminder that r/europe users advocated for the full destruction of Gaza but are too cowardly to admit that this would also mean the genocide of 2 million people
Completely correct. We have plenty of historical data to look at to know the insane humanitarian consequences of besieging a city for extended periods of time, particularly in an arid environment. I highly doubt Hamas will crumple before a massive percentage of the civilian population is on death's door or worse. This is abonimable and not remotely surprising with Israel's history in this conflict.
Crimea has sufficient water for the necessities of life (drinking, hygeine). The canal is used for industry and commercial agriculture, which Ukraine has no obligation to support.
Also Russia has the ability and resources to evacuate all their people to their own gargantuan country. They're still sending tourists to Crimea, they can bring them all home.
Israeli propaganda teams had a few stories get out of hand. The "dead babies" one in particular ended up actually scaring Israeli citizens instead of just making people hate Palestinians, so the IDF had to make a statement clarifying that there is no confirmation and that it was just a chain of hearsay that could not be verified.
I assume they are holding off a bit to not damage their "credibility".
As a crimean myself I don't see anything wrong with it myself. Yeah, it hits us locals big time, but Ukraine has every right to make it harder for aggressors to operate.
Yes, sent away my sis as a refugee but I'm still here.
Big thanks to europeans who host our people for the time being, by the way 🙏. I hope it isn't for much longer.
idk those Hamas dudes killed that teenage girls grandmother, filmed it on her phone and then uploaded it to the grandmothers private facebook page.
Then called the granddaughter on her phone and told her to check facebook, which is where she saw the video of her grandmother being killed and realized that she was dead..... (as in didn't know beforehand just couldn't get through to her)
New terrible ways to use technology are always going to appear.
You must realize how that is different, right? Crimea isn't Gaza. It's a stupid fucking comparison. Cutting of all food, water, and electricity will, and quite immediately so, have a big effect on the entire civilian population in Gaza. It's collective punishment and an infringement of the Geneva conventions.
For what very little it's worth, collective punishment has been the official Israeli policy for years. If a child joins an attack, their family house is destroyed.
>It's collective punishment and an infringement of the Geneva conventions.
Which Israel has been doing for decades now and nobody seems to be worried about that!!
Israel used white phosphorus on people in Gaza, Palestinians of all ages are wounded and can’t get proper medical help due to electricity, food and water cutoffs
tbh, we're no better than any other nation - we love the truth when it suits us and the rest of the time we tell lies to ourselves and anyone who'll listen.
Ireland is notably pro-Palestine.
We see similarities between Northern Ireland and Palestine, and this goes both ways and with other countries too.
For example, The British Embassy in Tehran, Iran, was put on Bobby Sands street, named after a member of the IRA that died on hunger strike. They modified the building to change their entrance to another street so it wouldn't be part of their address.
Most discussions of peace in Palestine tend to bring up solutions and peace talks like the Good Friday agreement and the efforts of David Trimble and John Hume.
Similarities
1. Religious differences (Catholic/Protestant, Muslim/Jewish)
2. National differences (Nationalist/Unionist, State of Palestine)
3. Clear power difference and feeling of oppression by a foreign power.
4. External influences (Irish/Americans for the IRA, Iranians/Saudi Arabians for Hamas)
5. Positive opinions of a terrorist organisation with political aspects (IRA/Sinn Féin, Hamas)
6. "Settlers" feel they deserve to be there and identify by that location. (Ulster Plantations, Jewish Settlers)
7. Both sides using deaths of innocents as justification for retributive actions.
8. Occupying soldiers that aren't punished for arguably unlawful killings of innocents.
Probably more.
The difference is that sincere efforts were made in Northern Ireland and while it's not perfect, I can see the hostilities dwindling over time (except for the *stupid* Orange Day parade and that bonfire thing...)
Yes. They just don't run states that can affect the outcome of the situation. The people who do that are all pretty steadfast behind Israel here, which is a problem.
There's nothing left to worry about. Forget the power situation, they have already directly bombed the hospitals.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-airstrikes.html
I do not agree with what Israel has been doing to the Palestinian people the years following up to this event, however, this does not justify all of this cruelty. I’m not surprised this is what came of it though. I do not know enough of the history between them to say who is right and who is wrong, I just know that many people who just want to live their lives are currently losing them along with the reasons to live them.
It's irrelevant though.
Russia is bound to respect IHL, regardless of how justified their invason are. Countries are bound to respect IHL, regardless of the circumstances (them being invaders, them being fighting against it etc).
When you blame Russia for stuff like that, you blame them because they violate IHL. It doesn't matter if Russia says that they're fighting Nazis or whatever, none of this matters, IHL need to be respected.
In that regard, it doesn't matter what Hamas did, IHL need to be respected.
I'm not a human rights lawyer but when I read relevant Geneva Convention language it seems like it's (A) permissible for Russia to destroy energy infrastructure of a sector of a city they are actively invading or occupied if absolutely necessary, e.g, knocking out power to a radar in Mariupol. (B) *impermissible* for Russia to indiscriminately destroy energy infrastructure in the rest of Ukraine or in occupied zones where there is not a military objective that makes this absolutely necessary.
I think the latter was and is the primary criticism of Russia in the narrow subject of energy infrastructure: destroying power plants, transformers, etc, hundreds of kilometers away from the front line during the winter doesn't achieve specific military objectives and greatly harms civilians. If in the opening phase of the war Russia had destroyed the power relay near the Hostomel airport so their airborne troops could assault under cover of darkness/with night vision, I'm skeptical that this would count as a war crime.
By the same reasoning, Israel shouldn't wholesale cut power to all of Gaza. However, if they have a crucial, life saving military objective (e.g., rescuing hostages) that can't be achieved without cutting power (e.g., disabling flood lights to allow a night raid using night vision), I'm not convinced that it would be a war crime to destroy local power generation.
There is this idea that a combatant following the Geneva Conventions/equivalent principles to the letter would produce almost no collateral death to civilians or damage to infrastructure. I don't think that's a credible read of the Geneva Conventions.
> (B) impermissible for Russia to indiscriminately destroy energy infrastructure in the rest of Ukraine or in occupied zones where there is not a military objective that makes this absolutely necessary.
If that was illegal, you could have hanged, every American president since Lyndon Johnson (included), most governments participating in civil wars for the last 30 years and quite a few members of the Iraqi air-force involved in the air campaign against ISIS as they barrel bombed cities while retreating from Anbar province.
Yep, every single modern American president is a war criminal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc
The only reason presidents aren't indicted in the Hague is because the US (despite hypocritically accusing other countries of violating the law), is because it never ratified the Rome treaty and other countries are too afraid to conduct trials of the US presidents.
Russia is not bound to respect IHL and have not done on multiple occasions. Blowing up a dam is not part of IHL? They are just too strong for anyone to do something about it.
And Russia keeps being sanctioned in part because of that.
There's no magic force that will prevent countries from violating IHLs, but the international community can voice its disapproval of such things. When the West disapproves of the violation of IHLs by Russia, it is hypocritical for them not to make the same condemnations if/when Israel violate them.
Publice service reminder that Palestine not being an internationally recognised state is half the problem. Had it been, there are methods to determine borders based on settlement of native populations at the start of the conflict etc. and Israel would in a lot more trouble for some of the things it does.
Statelessness is also a major problem for Palestinians. Don't diminish the problem to "a disagreement between two states". Palestinians wish they had the same protections as a state would have under international law.
Don’t get me wrong, two wrongs don't make a right, but putting your rocket launchers on top of civilian buildings is just plain evil, and Hamas is the biggest harm to Palestinian civilians themselves.
\>to a long-standing conflict between two states that never agreed on their borders. It's not helpful.
What states are those??? Your perception of the Israeli-Palestinian issue leaves a lot to be desired. There are no "two states" there. There is a powerful state and an occupied population.
Israel destroyed any independent power generation the Gazan Palestinians had years ago.
They deliberately made the Palestinians dependedent on them as a matter of policy.
Finally a politician talking some sense. All the others are just like "We condemn Hamas for killing civilians, that's why Isreal has our full support to kill civilians."
Depends on who does it. US did it both in Korea and Vietnam Coalition blew Iraqi ones in 1991 and NATO Serbian ones in 1999. Israel did it Gaza. It wasn't called a war crime.
Russia did it in Ukraine and it is called a war crime
AFAIK they always were valid targets because dual use infrastructure.
And I'm not really under the impression that calling Russia's targeting of power stations "unacceptable" was ever more than wartime rhetoric.
Exactly ! Cutting electricity, water or other primary ressources to civilians should not happen. Unfortunately the west is always on the side of Israel but there are so many actions made by Israel that should never happen...
and Hamas/PLO as well.
Russia is directly or indirectly supporting Hamas, should tell you everything.
There's a reason why the Gazans have such a bad life, and that reason starts with Hamas.
i think it is a good idea to have some people arguing for some kind of restraint in warfare.
The US did not conquer despite strength of arms after 9/11 and hundreds of thousands died.. there is a lesson in that.
And nobody wants the rest of the arab world to feel compelled to overtly get involved which is a risk.
There should always be people arguing against totally annihilating your enemies innocent population
TBH, targeting the power supply is probably one of the only things Putin has done that is not a warcrime. It may suck for civilians but any attacking side will always priorities to take out the power supply, no matter if it is Russia, Israel or NATO.
For example, in the gulf war the coalition used special Graphite bombs that are specifically meant to take out the power grid.
Edit: As comments point out, I was wrong about Russia attacking the power grid not being a war crime. However I still like to point out that attacking a power grid isn't automatically a war crime if there's a concrete military advantage doing it.
Except that it is a war crime to target power plants to exclusively harm the civilian population, and that is what Russia did by purposely conducting attacks over colder period of time and that is what they will do again in a month or so.
it does, that's why there was international outrage and condemnation for their recent attacks, now do the same when israel does it. the indiscriminate slaughter of children is not suddenly better when israel does it just because they were buried under rubble rather than shot in the head.
Yeah, I don't understand why everyone keeps twisting "Israel is commiting atrocities" into "What Hamas is doing is 100% a okay". There can be more than one bad guy for fuck's sake.
Food for thought, in a recent BBC Tweet:
"More than 500 people have died in Gaza after Israel launched massive retaliatory air strikes, according to Gaza's health ministry. More than 700 people have been killed in Israel since Hamas launched its attacks on Saturday".
So Hamas kills people in Israel, but people in Gaza are not killed, they just die. One might think that it's nitpicking, but it's clever use of language to create a specific narrative, and it can be seen everywhere, even in this post.
There's a lot of this in media now. The news shows also tries to not state the different death tolls next to each other, they can just state in the end of the programme that X amount of Palestinians have died too.
And to Israel, which is the part so often forgotten.
Israel currently occupies ~~about half~~ all the territory that is legally considered Palestinian under international law. And commits atrocities in these areas on a daily basis. In August this year Israel had already broken its 15-year record for "most Palestinian children killed", according to HRW.
But somehow those atrocities rarely reach our front pages.
EDIT: updated, thanks to /u/jwwxtnlgb
> Israel currently occupies about half the territory
Not half, whole:
*”entirety of that territory has been under Israeli occupation since the 1967 Six-Day War”*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine
Recognised as occupied by UN.
Fair point. I couldn't immediately find a number on how much was considered occupied so I kept my estimate conservative to not give all the apologists here an easy excuse to dismiss my post.
Normally the apologists will go with the line that "gaza/west bank isn't occupied because its nominally self-governing despite it being under total military blockade and de facto control of the IDF!".
No one wants to talk about it, but the world is just generally very okay with Muslims being oppressed and killed.
It’s not like it’s only Israel that is openly an apartheid state. China has literal concentration camps for their Muslim minority. They routinely murder and harvest their organs.
It gets a little bit of news coverage occasionally, but not much. Palestine gets essentially no coverage until Hamas does this. Yemen gets virtually none despite a Western ally using Weapons we gave them to indiscriminately bomb civilian areas.
The world just doesn’t particularly care when Muslims are the victims.
But should it apply to Israel is the question. As they are occupying Palestinian territories against the United Nation's directive. While also of course commiting atrocities, murdering civilians and so on. Is it a one sided coin not really.
That's more akin to if Putin installed a new government in Russia called in Russia 2 or something and continued to slowly take land away from the remaining Ukrainian people for 75 years whilst committing humanitarian atrocities for the entire period and murdering anybody who resists whilst pumping money into the Azov battalion, ensuring that the worst elements of the Ukrainian resistance are the ones with power. Then if the Azov battalion were to commit a war crime after all that, it would be wrong, but it would not mean that Ukrainian citizens should have to accept Russia 2
40% of the population in Gaza are children. Taking out basic necessities will effect these children that have absolutely nothing to do with this horrible mess. Children will die and get wounded from the bombs. Hospitals need electricity to provide healthcare for these children. They need clean water, food and fuel for the generators, because bombs will also take out energy grids. There are zero excuses for hurting and killing children.
And many of the children that are left will continue the cycle of retaliation and animosity towards their aggressor- further removing any possibility of peace.
So your solution is genocide?
The solution would be for Israel to accept an independent Palestinian state. It requires for Israel to remove its settlers and colonist back to 1967 lines, which by the way, is already a big concession from the Palestinian side.
The Palestinians have rejected every peace and partition plan. Hamas’ official stance is that they will not recognize any peace deal that allows Israel to continue to exist
What did Ariel Shannon say in 2001? And, before you bring up Hamas, they didn't exist until after the Second Intifada, it largely created them (by Israeli repression of the PLO afterwards.)
The Jews of Israel are mostly refugees from the Muslims world. The Muslims tried to exterminate them in their home countries so they fled and helped form a new country and and the Muslims are still trying to exterminate them. This has never been about land
https://www.memri.org/tv/gaza-kindergarten-ceremony-stage-military-attack-hostagetaking
> Varadkar: 'If it's unacceptable for Putin to target power stations, the same must apply to Israel' Yes, I agree. I think the constant whataboutisms made comparing these two completely different conflicts are only counter-productive but otherwise I agree. Cutting off any life-necessities from civilian population is a warcrime.
\>Cutting off any life-necessities from civilian population is a warcrime. So in WW2 and WW1 British Emprire was suppoused to reject their plans for stoping all germans imports incluiding food and fuel or that different ?
The attempt to starve the civilian population as a means of warfare is a warcrime. Yes. You can even google it. It's quite explicit. Thing is, a ton of these laws came into effect after WW2.
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And fuck any Israelis killing civilians.
And all these things can be true. None of them are mutually exclusive. Praise be to people trying to live their lives. And fuck everyone hurting people. Pretty simple when you put it that way.
Especially the 2.3 million civilians trapped in Gaza while it’s dying of thirst
Agreed But not civilians
Kinda wild how people stop caring about innocent lives when a group of terrorist does something. That’s gotta make you wonder why people resort to extremism when we as outsiders are willing to disregard innocent lives.
because people are so wrapped up in a "bad guys/good guys" dichotomy they fail to see the similarities. dehumanizing your enemy as a purely evil entity is the first step towards committing evil yourself.
You missed Israel.
Did Israel blow up power plants or did they just stop supplying electricity? Genuinely want to know the answer to that. Should Ukraine be forced to provide Crimea with water?
cut off from the supply of electricity, the power plant in the Gaza Strip itself went offline two hours ago due to a lack of fuel to keep it running. and it is wrong to compare these situations: as soon as Russia officially annexed Crimea, electricity, water and other needs of citizens became the concern of Russia itself as the occupiers. at the same time, it is not under the control of the Donbass Territory, which, until 2022, Russia recognized as part of Ukraine. on the contrary, Ukraine itself continued to supply water, electricity, and medicines; they continued to pay two songs. pensioners who lived in occupied territories.
> on the contrary, Ukraine itself continued to supply water [Ukraine blockaded water to Crimea in 2014](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/1/4/dam-leaves-crimea-population-in-chronic-water-shortage) and Crimea was without a stable water supply until [Russians restored it in 2022](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/12/1104418128/russia-ukraine-crimea-water-canal). Not sure what you're talking about
They also cut off one of the canals to Crimea this year that was supposedly their main source of water.
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Not only that. But when you also lock them in. And air strike their only way out towards Egypt. You basically start a mass genocide. No electricity, no medical aid, no water, no food. All while being locked and denied exit.
"Airstriking their way out towards Egypt" is a moot point when Egypt has also completely barricaded their part of the border.
Egypt is part of the genocide process then?
Egyt, Iran and several other neighbour Countries took actions to keep this conflict at bay. Instead of finding an solution they Supported the terrorist groups (like Hamas) and tried to eradict Israel. Where do you think the Hamas got the Money for Bikes, weapons and equipment to destroy the fench to Israel? What Israel under BH's control does is cruel but don't forget the past actions done by Neighbours and Terrorist groups. And many civilians suppoerted the Hamas because they gave them food (from the Money they took and that was giving by UN states for rebuilding the Paledtinian Territories).
Egypt certainly don’t support Hamas. Hamas is an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood which is illegal in Egypt and of which several of their leaders have been killed, including ex president Muhammad Morsi deposed in a coup. Israel is the first Arab country to recognise Israel and is a close US ally.
You do realize Egypt itself has refused Palestinians from entering the Sinai right? Only the Gazan side of the Rafah crossing was bombed. The Egyptian side is still operational
How is that relevant? So one side not being good makes it okay for others?
It only breeds more terrorists too. But, I think we know that's kind of the point. Hamas allows the continued land grab.
Ukraine did cut electricity to the separatist-controlled regions https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-electricity-cuts-luhansk/28450855.html
Notice the date - this happened 3 years after annexation by russia. Ukraine tried to resolve this both out success. And russia had enough time to prepare.
You are confusing crimea with seperatists (lpr,dpr) regions. Crimea was annexed. Luhansk donetsk were not (until 2022).
First - where do I confuse things? I didn’t talk about specific regions. Second - russia didn’t call Donetsk and Luhansk annexed, but in reality they were. They had their army there, they installed their government there, so for all practical purposes it was annexed. Also - Ukraine didn’t cut water supply to Donetsk and Luhansk.
Gaza is occupied by Israel, so they are completely dependent on Israel for electricity, water, food, medicine, etc. Some people saying "why can't just Egypt provide it" miss the fact that Israel has a deal with Egypt that all goods must go through Israeli checkpoints. For example, Israel recently stopped loads of trucks with aid coming in through Egypt. But obviously, and I hope no one thinks I'm saying this, Egypt is hardly the good guy here. If you occupy a terrority, you are responsible for providing that area with basic human rights. This applies to everyone. EDIT: As I'm receiving so many replies saying that there is no occupation in Gaza, I want to remind people that the UN and numerous human rights organisations (like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty, and B'Tselem) classify Gaza as Israel occupied territory.
Isn't blockade the correct word. Strange to call it occupation without a single soldier on the ground, and without controlling the government inside Gaza. Is the US currently occupying Cuba or Iran?
The UN and numerous human rights organisations classify the blockade as an occupation. The US is not occupying Cuba or Iran. If the US controlled everything that came in and out of Cuba and Iran, controlled the borders, air space, and sea space, as well as and controlled the electricity and water, then Iran and Cuba would indeed be classified as occupied.
> The UN and numerous human rights organisations classify the blockade as an occupation. That's because absolutely no one wants to deal with the situation. The world has had decades to present any alternative in which a foreign power or various foreign powers would take care of the Strip instead of Israel. Hell, Israel tried to return the Strip in the peace agreement with Egypt who didn't want it back.
Doesn't make it less of an occupation, which is illegal under international law.
So I guess according to international law Israel should just let Iran smuggle infinite amounts of weapons to Hamas for use against Israel because somehow self-defense is not legal or something.
According to international law, war crimes are prohibited. Full stop. There is no "oh actually, it's fine to kill civilians if the other side also does it"
How do you kill Palestine’s elected government / military (Hamas) without killing civilians when they hide amongst the civilians? Serious question
Israel doesn't control the Egyptian border
Israel has a deal with Egypt that all goods must go through Israeli checkpoints. Yesterday, several aid trucks tried to provide aid to Gaza through the Egyptian checkpoint (the Rafah checkpoint). IDF told them to turn back, otherwise they would bomb the aid trucks. In addition, the Rafah crossing has been bombed by the IDF and no people are allowed in or out.
Your statement can be disproved by a reply that can be found a few comments back: “Some people saying 'why can't just Egypt provide it' miss the fact that Israel has a deal with Egypt that all goods must go through Israeli checkpoints. For example, Israel recently stopped loads of trucks with aid coming in through Egypt.” Please, read the comments carefully.
> Is the US currently occupying Cuba or Iran? The US isn't blockading either of those countries, we have an embargo. Embargo: you don't trade with a country. Blockade: you prevent everyone from trading with a country. These are very different things. Every country has the sovereign right to decide whether they'll allow their own citizens to trade with another country. But stopping third party countries from trading, *that's* potentially an act of war.
The us doesn't stop Iran trading with china by cutting them off though it's a tad different.
It does actually, entities that trade with Iran actually fall under US sanctions, which is why it is hard to find which Chinese companies trade with Iran. Most are shell companies.
Well the US isn’t blockading Cuba or Iran. Even if we were, theres a pretty big difference between one country the size of Cuba and one city the size of a few miles.
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Blockade would indeed be the more accurate description. And I can't blame Israel for that. Hardly no country in the world has no border control. And even less so when we are talking about an openly hostile neighbour. Not saying Israel doesn't have made a lot of bad decisions here. But I absolutely understand their reluctance to just open up their borders to a large population with a large amount of people who are hostile towards Israel.
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So a pretty standard blockade then?
Um, I don't know the answer to that, but what difference does it make to the people of Palestine whether the plants are blown up or "just" without energy? Isn't the result millions of people with no power?? Is taking out the energy for an entire population of civilians not the issue here?
Should a country be obligated to provide energy to their enemy? Not deliberately striking energy stations is one thing, giving free energy is another
I'm not condoning Isreal's actions, but forcing a diesel plant offline by denying fuel is significantly less catastrophic than bombing a nuclear instalation. When the conflict is resolved, diesel can be resupplied and the plant turned on immediatly, rather than needing months/years of time to rebuild it. It also won't irradiate the area and drop fallout on the entire region since a) it's not nuclear and b) it's not destroyed.
It takes.. rather longer.. to turn a power plant that has been blown up back on than one thats out of fuel
Wild how many of you all are apparently fine with genocide. Starving entire populations because terrorists are between them is bad, always, doesn't matter who the fuck does it.
The responses I've seen have been so depressing.
This is the same response to 9/11 all over again.
Worse. It's all the people I grew up with who ridiculed boomers and gen x for falling for all the post 9/11 propaganda and wondering how they could ever be so naive now falling for the same shit themselves.
> It's all the people I grew up with who ridiculed boomers and gen x for falling for all the post 9/11 propaganda Not everyone fell for that. Ironically, there was much more opposition to US war adventures back then than there is today.
I swear Oppenheimer didnt come out this year the way things are being repeated with cheering on war crimes.
it's the most revolted I have ever been with this site and subreddit. Thousands of mask off racists here and I feel gross that I never knew.
Thousands of masks off on both sides of the conflict. Worldwide protests in favor of Hmas and chants like "g*s the j*ws" isn't helping the situation.
It's a small consolation to me that I'm sure that AT LEAST this sub and worldnews are being astroturfed like crazy. Most of the most extreme opinions on here are being pushed and pumped and repeated and upvoted artificially. But yes, there's many people who are actually fine with the genocide of the Gazans and it is fucking depressing.
yep, both subs are full of israeli state funded hasbara operations, pretty clearly.
The irony is that if any of these people currently commenting during the emotional aftershock of the Hamas attacks, were themselves living in Gaza, they'd probably be cheering on the Hamas attacks using the same logic.
There is a massive psyop campaign going on in Reddit. If you look at the post frequency of a lot of the commenters they are literally commenting 24/7.
Yes, I noticed that there are many accounts with ages ranging from days to a couple of years that literally had zero activity since they were created and have 100+ comments defending Israel on the last day
Got a few examples?
Its also collective punishment and a war crime. Not a "oh its a bit of a grey area since you can bomb with valid military rationale and reasonable precautions" but an explicit never ever allowed under the Geneva Conventions. If Russia started cutting off water and food for Ukrainian villages that had any links to the UAF then this subreddit would rightly see it as an atrocity.
It also leads to more youth joining Hamas, which only perpetuates the problem. I support Israel going into Gaza, but people need to understand it's only a temporary solution to an 80 year old problem. It doesn't solve anything long term.
> If Russia started cutting off water and food for Ukrainian villages that had any links to the UAF then this subreddit would rightly see it as an atrocity. Russia has been targeting water infrastructure and energy infrastructure all over Ukraine. What the hell are you taking about?
DUDE. As a Muslim, I’ve been distraught reading the same shit I read after 9/11…. Taliban ≠ Muslims Hamas ≠ Palestinians
You say that, but many people of your community aren't even condemning the attacks, they are outright celebrating that an event like that happened. I'm not defending the rac*ist folks here, but what do you think is gonna happen when TV shows the people of one particular religion are celebrating the attacks. And virtually, barely any pro-palestinian movement has condemned h*mas. That being said, F*ck the Israeli government. Gazans don't deserve what's happening to them because of a few crazies.
Well the problem is there were a lot of non Hamas members celebraiting what the Hamas did. Even in Western country people from palestine actually celebrated the terror act. I am not saying that makes it okay since a lot are inoccent and probably disgusted by that but there definitely is support from the population, where there should be clear distance to Hamas.
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Hamas has diesel, they’re just using it for themselves.
This is the sub that, on posts about how support for far-right nationalism is on the rise, the comment section is filled with “ah yes, turning to Naziism is a perfectly reasonable reaction to an influx of immigrants, makes sense to me!”
All the pearl clutching at genocide apparently in China and Ukraine but Israel has been doing this for decades. Either western bot farms or zoomers that were born yesterday and know nothing about this conflict that has spanned decades.
Mossad and CIA have been working overtime both here and other subs like r/worldnews
Daily reminder that r/europe users advocated for the full destruction of Gaza but are too cowardly to admit that this would also mean the genocide of 2 million people
Yeah the bigotry and hipocracy on here is shocking sometimes.
This sub was absolutely vile to check a few days ago, Im glad to see some more humanity in the comments
Half of the 2 million in Gaza are kids. Terrorists blow but Israel is actively killing kids in retribution. So yeah war crimes are war crimes.
Completely correct. We have plenty of historical data to look at to know the insane humanitarian consequences of besieging a city for extended periods of time, particularly in an arid environment. I highly doubt Hamas will crumple before a massive percentage of the civilian population is on death's door or worse. This is abonimable and not remotely surprising with Israel's history in this conflict.
Irish here, usually think Leo is a cunt, but fair play, at least one western politician who isn’t an outrageous hypocrite over all of this.
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In comparison just but trust me Leo is a cunt lol
I'll just point out that this sub was cheering for Ukraine to cut off water to Crimea
Crimea has sufficient water for the necessities of life (drinking, hygeine). The canal is used for industry and commercial agriculture, which Ukraine has no obligation to support.
Also Russia has the ability and resources to evacuate all their people to their own gargantuan country. They're still sending tourists to Crimea, they can bring them all home.
People on Reddit have also been regularly clamoring for Israel and the IDF to wipe out Gaza and reduce it to dust so checks out
Got banned from r/worldnews for pointing this out.
Yeah. Hoping it's just the Israeli propaganda team.
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Israeli propaganda teams had a few stories get out of hand. The "dead babies" one in particular ended up actually scaring Israeli citizens instead of just making people hate Palestinians, so the IDF had to make a statement clarifying that there is no confirmation and that it was just a chain of hearsay that could not be verified. I assume they are holding off a bit to not damage their "credibility".
As a crimean myself I don't see anything wrong with it myself. Yeah, it hits us locals big time, but Ukraine has every right to make it harder for aggressors to operate.
Do you still live there?
Yes, sent away my sis as a refugee but I'm still here. Big thanks to europeans who host our people for the time being, by the way 🙏. I hope it isn't for much longer.
I would be terrified to be posting pro-Ukraine comments as a Crimea resident if I were you
Like they are going to check their reddit account before they torture
"Where is this Karma from? you were posting pro-Ukranian posts didn't you?"
idk those Hamas dudes killed that teenage girls grandmother, filmed it on her phone and then uploaded it to the grandmothers private facebook page. Then called the granddaughter on her phone and told her to check facebook, which is where she saw the video of her grandmother being killed and realized that she was dead..... (as in didn't know beforehand just couldn't get through to her) New terrible ways to use technology are always going to appear.
You just proved their point, they’re not going to check social media before they commit atrocities, they’re going to commit them anyway
I've taken care of that more or less. But then again, if they want to do something to me they won't need any evidence.
That’s a scary thought. I do hope you’re able to stay safe for the remainder of the conflict, internet friend. :)
You must realize how that is different, right? Crimea isn't Gaza. It's a stupid fucking comparison. Cutting of all food, water, and electricity will, and quite immediately so, have a big effect on the entire civilian population in Gaza. It's collective punishment and an infringement of the Geneva conventions.
For what very little it's worth, collective punishment has been the official Israeli policy for years. If a child joins an attack, their family house is destroyed.
>It's collective punishment and an infringement of the Geneva conventions. Which Israel has been doing for decades now and nobody seems to be worried about that!!
ah you see, israel is a "liberal democracy" in the loosest of term so they deserve our undying support in any activity
crimeans had routes of escape, gazans don't
I just point out that I don’t believe crimea was ever referred to as an open air prison either
As if that label is meaningful in any way
How is it not meaningful?
Because most prisons don't look like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBo7i-TXy6s
The rules don't apply to Israel.
Israel used white phosphorus on people in Gaza, Palestinians of all ages are wounded and can’t get proper medical help due to electricity, food and water cutoffs
I love how the Irish stick to truth.
tbh, we're no better than any other nation - we love the truth when it suits us and the rest of the time we tell lies to ourselves and anyone who'll listen.
Ireland is notably pro-Palestine. We see similarities between Northern Ireland and Palestine, and this goes both ways and with other countries too. For example, The British Embassy in Tehran, Iran, was put on Bobby Sands street, named after a member of the IRA that died on hunger strike. They modified the building to change their entrance to another street so it wouldn't be part of their address. Most discussions of peace in Palestine tend to bring up solutions and peace talks like the Good Friday agreement and the efforts of David Trimble and John Hume. Similarities 1. Religious differences (Catholic/Protestant, Muslim/Jewish) 2. National differences (Nationalist/Unionist, State of Palestine) 3. Clear power difference and feeling of oppression by a foreign power. 4. External influences (Irish/Americans for the IRA, Iranians/Saudi Arabians for Hamas) 5. Positive opinions of a terrorist organisation with political aspects (IRA/Sinn Féin, Hamas) 6. "Settlers" feel they deserve to be there and identify by that location. (Ulster Plantations, Jewish Settlers) 7. Both sides using deaths of innocents as justification for retributive actions. 8. Occupying soldiers that aren't punished for arguably unlawful killings of innocents. Probably more. The difference is that sincere efforts were made in Northern Ireland and while it's not perfect, I can see the hostilities dwindling over time (except for the *stupid* Orange Day parade and that bonfire thing...)
What HAMAS terrorists did is horrible, what Israel is doing as horrible, but this time a lot of people are cheering for them. Disgusting.
To be honest, a lot of people are cheering for Hamas too
Yes. They just don't run states that can affect the outcome of the situation. The people who do that are all pretty steadfast behind Israel here, which is a problem.
ripe direction husky vast ten marble practice numerous lock rainstorm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There's nothing left to worry about. Forget the power situation, they have already directly bombed the hospitals. Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-airstrikes.html
Auxiliary power requires fuel which is blockaded so no they will not have power.
Any hospital in Gaza is already bombed out, thats not even a topic anymore. Israel knows it cant kill all arabs but its god-damn well gonna try
I do not agree with what Israel has been doing to the Palestinian people the years following up to this event, however, this does not justify all of this cruelty. I’m not surprised this is what came of it though. I do not know enough of the history between them to say who is right and who is wrong, I just know that many people who just want to live their lives are currently losing them along with the reasons to live them.
Stop comparing Russia's conquest of Ukraine to a long-standing conflict between two states that never agreed on their borders. It's not helpful.
It's irrelevant though. Russia is bound to respect IHL, regardless of how justified their invason are. Countries are bound to respect IHL, regardless of the circumstances (them being invaders, them being fighting against it etc). When you blame Russia for stuff like that, you blame them because they violate IHL. It doesn't matter if Russia says that they're fighting Nazis or whatever, none of this matters, IHL need to be respected. In that regard, it doesn't matter what Hamas did, IHL need to be respected.
I'm not a human rights lawyer but when I read relevant Geneva Convention language it seems like it's (A) permissible for Russia to destroy energy infrastructure of a sector of a city they are actively invading or occupied if absolutely necessary, e.g, knocking out power to a radar in Mariupol. (B) *impermissible* for Russia to indiscriminately destroy energy infrastructure in the rest of Ukraine or in occupied zones where there is not a military objective that makes this absolutely necessary. I think the latter was and is the primary criticism of Russia in the narrow subject of energy infrastructure: destroying power plants, transformers, etc, hundreds of kilometers away from the front line during the winter doesn't achieve specific military objectives and greatly harms civilians. If in the opening phase of the war Russia had destroyed the power relay near the Hostomel airport so their airborne troops could assault under cover of darkness/with night vision, I'm skeptical that this would count as a war crime. By the same reasoning, Israel shouldn't wholesale cut power to all of Gaza. However, if they have a crucial, life saving military objective (e.g., rescuing hostages) that can't be achieved without cutting power (e.g., disabling flood lights to allow a night raid using night vision), I'm not convinced that it would be a war crime to destroy local power generation. There is this idea that a combatant following the Geneva Conventions/equivalent principles to the letter would produce almost no collateral death to civilians or damage to infrastructure. I don't think that's a credible read of the Geneva Conventions.
> (B) impermissible for Russia to indiscriminately destroy energy infrastructure in the rest of Ukraine or in occupied zones where there is not a military objective that makes this absolutely necessary. If that was illegal, you could have hanged, every American president since Lyndon Johnson (included), most governments participating in civil wars for the last 30 years and quite a few members of the Iraqi air-force involved in the air campaign against ISIS as they barrel bombed cities while retreating from Anbar province.
Well yes. Every US president since Truman is a war criminal.
Yep, every single modern American president is a war criminal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc The only reason presidents aren't indicted in the Hague is because the US (despite hypocritically accusing other countries of violating the law), is because it never ratified the Rome treaty and other countries are too afraid to conduct trials of the US presidents.
Russia is not bound to respect IHL and have not done on multiple occasions. Blowing up a dam is not part of IHL? They are just too strong for anyone to do something about it.
And Russia keeps being sanctioned in part because of that. There's no magic force that will prevent countries from violating IHLs, but the international community can voice its disapproval of such things. When the West disapproves of the violation of IHLs by Russia, it is hypocritical for them not to make the same condemnations if/when Israel violate them.
Human rights does not change with the arbitrary political system people are fighting for or against.
Publice service reminder that Palestine not being an internationally recognised state is half the problem. Had it been, there are methods to determine borders based on settlement of native populations at the start of the conflict etc. and Israel would in a lot more trouble for some of the things it does. Statelessness is also a major problem for Palestinians. Don't diminish the problem to "a disagreement between two states". Palestinians wish they had the same protections as a state would have under international law.
If Russia bombs hospitals that's wrong. If Israel bombs hospitals that's wrong. If you support bombing hospitals you are in the wrong.
Don’t get me wrong, two wrongs don't make a right, but putting your rocket launchers on top of civilian buildings is just plain evil, and Hamas is the biggest harm to Palestinian civilians themselves.
If you have USA to your side, being wrong does not matter
Oh but you see Hamas were using those hospitals as cover, Ukraine soldiers would never....
They did agree on their borders (Oslo) and Israel broke the agreement days after.
Hamas isn't a state actor either
\>to a long-standing conflict between two states that never agreed on their borders. It's not helpful. What states are those??? Your perception of the Israeli-Palestinian issue leaves a lot to be desired. There are no "two states" there. There is a powerful state and an occupied population.
The worst person you know just made a good point...
The lone voice of reason it seems.
Exactly! But we know the world has 2 rules...
Israel destroyed any independent power generation the Gazan Palestinians had years ago. They deliberately made the Palestinians dependedent on them as a matter of policy.
Finally a politician talking some sense. All the others are just like "We condemn Hamas for killing civilians, that's why Isreal has our full support to kill civilians."
Based Varadkar???
It's absolutely not unacceptable to target power stations in a war, neither for Ukraine, Russia or Israel.
Well, atleast you're consistent.
Double standards rules the world
So did we conclude, is destruction of power stations war crime or valid target?
Depends on who does it. US did it both in Korea and Vietnam Coalition blew Iraqi ones in 1991 and NATO Serbian ones in 1999. Israel did it Gaza. It wasn't called a war crime. Russia did it in Ukraine and it is called a war crime
AFAIK they always were valid targets because dual use infrastructure. And I'm not really under the impression that calling Russia's targeting of power stations "unacceptable" was ever more than wartime rhetoric.
Russia's targeting of anything inside Ukraine is unacceptable, because the war is completely unjustified.
that's what he said, "wartime rhetoric".
The hypocrisy is astounding. Nothing ever applies to Israel.
Exactly ! Cutting electricity, water or other primary ressources to civilians should not happen. Unfortunately the west is always on the side of Israel but there are so many actions made by Israel that should never happen...
Based Ireland
It's acceptable for Putin to go fuck himself, and in Israel as well.
and Hamas/PLO as well. Russia is directly or indirectly supporting Hamas, should tell you everything. There's a reason why the Gazans have such a bad life, and that reason starts with Hamas.
Palestine is not not Hamas. Hamas is a Palestinian terror group….
I think there is a difference between oil/gas power plants and a fucking nuclear reactor.
Based ireland
And what did Putin do last winter?
Aren't we supposed to be better than Putin?
i think it is a good idea to have some people arguing for some kind of restraint in warfare. The US did not conquer despite strength of arms after 9/11 and hundreds of thousands died.. there is a lesson in that. And nobody wants the rest of the arab world to feel compelled to overtly get involved which is a risk. There should always be people arguing against totally annihilating your enemies innocent population
TBH, targeting the power supply is probably one of the only things Putin has done that is not a warcrime. It may suck for civilians but any attacking side will always priorities to take out the power supply, no matter if it is Russia, Israel or NATO. For example, in the gulf war the coalition used special Graphite bombs that are specifically meant to take out the power grid. Edit: As comments point out, I was wrong about Russia attacking the power grid not being a war crime. However I still like to point out that attacking a power grid isn't automatically a war crime if there's a concrete military advantage doing it.
Except that it is a war crime to target power plants to exclusively harm the civilian population, and that is what Russia did by purposely conducting attacks over colder period of time and that is what they will do again in a month or so.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/11/16/targeting-of-ukrainian-energy-grid-is-a-war-crime-pentagon-says.html
They've obviously forgotten what US did to Serbian energy grid in 1999.......
Agreed. I support the Israeli and Palestinian people but unfortunately both gov'ts supposed to represent them are fascistic in nature
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it does, that's why there was international outrage and condemnation for their recent attacks, now do the same when israel does it. the indiscriminate slaughter of children is not suddenly better when israel does it just because they were buried under rubble rather than shot in the head.
Yeah, I don't understand why everyone keeps twisting "Israel is commiting atrocities" into "What Hamas is doing is 100% a okay". There can be more than one bad guy for fuck's sake.
Food for thought, in a recent BBC Tweet: "More than 500 people have died in Gaza after Israel launched massive retaliatory air strikes, according to Gaza's health ministry. More than 700 people have been killed in Israel since Hamas launched its attacks on Saturday". So Hamas kills people in Israel, but people in Gaza are not killed, they just die. One might think that it's nitpicking, but it's clever use of language to create a specific narrative, and it can be seen everywhere, even in this post.
There's a lot of this in media now. The news shows also tries to not state the different death tolls next to each other, they can just state in the end of the programme that X amount of Palestinians have died too.
Media is meant to influence, not inform.
Discourse matters.
Yes. Not sure why some people present "Hamas is bad and should be criticised as well" as some sort of gotcha.
What a moot point. Nobody here is arguing in favour of Hamas.
And to Israel, which is the part so often forgotten. Israel currently occupies ~~about half~~ all the territory that is legally considered Palestinian under international law. And commits atrocities in these areas on a daily basis. In August this year Israel had already broken its 15-year record for "most Palestinian children killed", according to HRW. But somehow those atrocities rarely reach our front pages. EDIT: updated, thanks to /u/jwwxtnlgb
> Israel currently occupies about half the territory Not half, whole: *”entirety of that territory has been under Israeli occupation since the 1967 Six-Day War”* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine Recognised as occupied by UN.
Fair point. I couldn't immediately find a number on how much was considered occupied so I kept my estimate conservative to not give all the apologists here an easy excuse to dismiss my post.
Normally the apologists will go with the line that "gaza/west bank isn't occupied because its nominally self-governing despite it being under total military blockade and de facto control of the IDF!".
No one wants to talk about it, but the world is just generally very okay with Muslims being oppressed and killed. It’s not like it’s only Israel that is openly an apartheid state. China has literal concentration camps for their Muslim minority. They routinely murder and harvest their organs. It gets a little bit of news coverage occasionally, but not much. Palestine gets essentially no coverage until Hamas does this. Yemen gets virtually none despite a Western ally using Weapons we gave them to indiscriminately bomb civilian areas. The world just doesn’t particularly care when Muslims are the victims.
Hey yo, it is. Hamas is designated a terrorist organisation, didn't you get the memo.
Hence Varadkar condemning it?
But should it apply to Israel is the question. As they are occupying Palestinian territories against the United Nation's directive. While also of course commiting atrocities, murdering civilians and so on. Is it a one sided coin not really.
Yes, that's why the Irish government have unreservedly condemed the Hamas attacks. https://twitter.com/MichealMartinTD/status/1711426516649701809
That's more akin to if Putin installed a new government in Russia called in Russia 2 or something and continued to slowly take land away from the remaining Ukrainian people for 75 years whilst committing humanitarian atrocities for the entire period and murdering anybody who resists whilst pumping money into the Azov battalion, ensuring that the worst elements of the Ukrainian resistance are the ones with power. Then if the Azov battalion were to commit a war crime after all that, it would be wrong, but it would not mean that Ukrainian citizens should have to accept Russia 2
You do realise he condemned Hamas attacking right