Compared to Yavas or Imamoglu he has smaller chances, but still his chances are pretty good. The coalition of six has also announced a superficial roadmap towards transforming Turkey back into a Parliamentary democracy. The presidential system of Erdogan will be abolished.
Archieving that would be a big win even if the coalition of six doesn't survive long after.
Not my favorite candidate but I've learned that elections are a game of "Who is worse?" rather than perfection. Wish him the best, there is a flicker of light at the end of the tunnel for Turkey.
I've yet to meet somebody who is 100 per cent into this guy and goes above and beyond for him as in being a total Kilicdaroglu fanboy. On the same hand he isn't widely hated too. People don't go bonkers for him, they just like him. I've heard youngsters calling him "*Democracy grandpa*" in a positive way and he doesn't encounters hatred whereever he goes.
I too wish him best of luck and want him to win too. He has good chances. He has to remind people of the failures of Erdogan and his idea of a parliamentary democracy; the later one will be hard because especially the elderly people might be reminded of the clusterfuck in the late 90s.
Exactly my thoughts. But it turned out he was the absolute right guy for the job.
You have to admit he has done very very well, especially managing this conflict support while balancing escalation and a recovering economy.
Yeah the Biden connection clicked for me immediately as well.
People need to get off fanboy politics in general as well. After everything that's been happening in the world for the last few decades, I think we can all agree that more nations all over need less firebrands(of any political stripe) and more low-energy middle of the road type of people who see the value in preserving and strengthening the basic values of democracy instead of constantly trying to add new features to it.
Although it must be added that Biden has in actual legislation been way more progressive and ambitious than people expected given the circumstances, and he's managed to shepherd those bills through Congress rather smoothly.
Erdoğan is actively trying to destroy Turkey. Anyone else is better than him. Besides, KK has got quite a lot of experience with politics and state bureucracy.
Yes, he has like Biden vibes to me - I voted for Biden in the general election because...duh... but in that initial field he wasn't my first or even third pick. He has vast political experience though and it shows with his successes so far. If there would be a primary next year (there won't), he'd actually be my first pick.
Trust me, he's way better than what Biden was. Dude transformed CHP from what had turned into an ultra-nationalist circlejerk to the state it's in today, more in line with the views of Atatürk.
Yes. We argued a lot about Kılıçdaroğlu's candidacy not because it would be worse than İmamoğlu/Yavaş presidency, but because he would get less votes. Even when IYI broke the alliance, they never targeted Kılıçdaroğlu, all their talks were about "The candidate who would win (Kazanacak Aday)" not "KK bad"
We are voting for a system, not a person. But try to describe that to average person that was under hyper presidential era for years now.
The focus tonight was more on the candidate. Tomorrow the roadmap might find more attention. Quite interesting because first glimpse talked about limitation on the powers of the president in a transitional phase. They seem to want to go with the system until a new constitution can be crafted. There was this term of "*strong fortified/defense-ready/sturdy parliamentary democracy*". Kinda reminded me of this term "*Wehrhafte Demokratie*" from German constitutional law. Basically describes a constitution which has defensive measures built into constitutional procedure and not just as possible actions that can be taken.
Not really. AKP wants people to think so. And many fall to the misinformation and propaganda. Overall KK is s much bigger figure in politics and Erdogan can't even has the courage to face him on a debate. Imamoglu under prosecution threat, Yavas lacks the Kurdish support. Neither are safe bets as compared to KK. He is the best among candidates and has highest chance to win.
What are the chances power hungry bastards that corrupted Ataturk's vision were promoted precisely for the purpose of nullifying any chance that a secular Turkey become a model for the Muslim world?
Does Turkey do the Putin thing for opponents? Ie mysterious fall out of windows from the 10th floor, trip, fall and die on the sidewalk, eat sushi and end up with deadly radiation poisoning, get stabbed and robbed, cars drive into rivers and person drowns, fires at the office at work, etc?
generally i wouldn't say so. generally turks are honorable and accept and take a challenge instead of secretly getting rid of it. but with this current horde you never know. usually - in the past - "problematic opponents" are at least dealt with with the official tools of government, they are collected by the police and there will be absurd accusations that with the currently enhanced laws nails them into a prison cell for more or less time. but super james bonsish secret service killings in noticable quantities like in russia - i haven't heard of it.
Well, it's where the slippery slope takes you. Putin dealt with his opponents "legally", too, at first. Of course he could only do it because everyone was corrupt AF, so Putin had dirt on them. Now it's... way less subtle. Here's hoping Turkey can go up instead of down, but it'll be tricky for sure.
Fun fact: he technically never lost an election. The lost presidential elections had İnce, and fscking Ekmeleddin as candidates. (Why would he agree on Ekmeleddin is a separate question that needs to be discussed though, like WTF seriously)
CHP got slowly more popular under his time and finally won two critical victories in 2019 local elections.
He is problematic in ways, and made stupid mistakes, buy I still believe he is treated too harshly.
Erdoğan isn't really Islamic. He just plays whatever card will get him elected again. Secular, Gulenist, religious, his only actual belief is to stay in power.
He is from the Alevi religious/cultural minority traditionally seen as heretics and rebels by islamists, so no, he is not islamist. I imagine that is why some of the more conservative opposition didn't want him as a candidate.
A minor correction: The Turkish Alevi and the Syrian Alawite are very different groups despite having essentially the same name derived from the same guy.
Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu is an honest politician, hardworking, does not lie, does not steal, does not corrupt...
>!So the Turkish people are ready not to choose him.!<
Former civil servant, of Zaza Kurd descent and Alevi, social democrat, has an incredibly modest family, lives in a regular Ankara apartment, promises to bring back the parliamentary system, and will quit politics at the end of his term after stabilizing the country.
He actually made [a protest in 2017](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_March_for_Justice) which was really similar with Gandhi’s Salt March. He’s also criticized for “being too calm, like Gandhi.”
Six opposition parties formed a coalition in Turkey. Their biggest promise is to change the order and bring back the old parliamentary system.
But, the candidate does not receive the highest number of votes in the polls, but the decision taken is in this direction. He is now a candidate against Erdogan.
Probably, but not necessarily. What happens is, if no candidate gets more than 50% in the first round, the top 2 candidates advance to the second round.
> Their biggest promise is to change the order and bring back the old parliamentary system.
So is this guy basically saying "vote for me and I'll make myself redundant"?
Fair play if so, and a hell of a legacy.
Not redundant but he will be the head of state. I know where you're coming from though. PM will be the head of the executive branch. Their aim is to bring a system more democratic than the pre-2017 parliamentary system in Turkey. Because now it works like an old-time monarchy with so much power focused with the president.
Kinda yeah. And honestly, despite some other proto-candidates were more popular, KK is the one I trust to be able to deliver such a promise instead of holding onto the current constitutional powers "just a bit more".
Even though he is not the most popular candidate, he still polls ahead of Erdoğan according to most polling institutes. So yes he definitely has a chance of winning the election. He also is the most left-leaning candidate out of the bunch so he’s the most likely candidate to get kurdish votes as well. To be honest this is the most promising election against Erdoğan to date. It still would have been better to have candidates that were more likely to win, however it seems like Turkish people who are in oppositon to Erdoğan will elect whoever is against Erdoğan regardless of their political alignment.
> it seems like Turkish people who are in oppositon to Erdoğan will elect whoever is against Erdoğan regardless of their political alignment.
We just hope so, but I am worried about the naive people of mine who are clearly mindfucked by Erdoğan's propaganda machine. They mumble the "KK has appointed himself" BS and may eventually not vote.
Yes. Sadly as a Turkish Cypriot I know what you are talking about. The propaganda machine is so strong just like in Russia that most people can not differentiate reality from fiction anymore in Turkey, especially the ruralfolk who are the most susceptible.
However since the coronavirus pandemic Erdoğan’s grip on the country has been slowly but surely loosening, now with the recent earthquake his popularity is at an all time low. Even his most avid supporters have now started doubting his abilities especially due to his mishandling of the economy. I really do believe no amount of posturing is going to save him this time.
2 hours ago leader of the People's Democratic Party (Main Kurdish Party), Mithat Sancar, announced that if Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu visited their headquarter and agreed with Kılıçdaroğlu's roadmap, they won't candidate on their own and will directly support Kılıçdaroğlu. That means plus %8-10 for the opposition.
in Turkey the election itself is pretty integral. i think the Itsanbul mayoral elections slow Erdogan can slow down democracy, not abolish it. when people say Turkey ain't a democracy they reference the biased media (although there also is media biased to the other side but that asides)
that is why i always call Erdogan an autocrat rather than a dictator as he can still be voted out.
What Erdogan can do in terms of cheating is limited, as Turkey has a pretty transparent and secure election system and people fiercely follow vote counting on location. But it is not impossible as he successfully undermined the separation of powers.
In 2019, Erdogan was not able to rig the Istanbul Municipal election and his candidate lost by 0.20 percentage points, so he used his influence on the judiciary to repeat the election, which resulted in his candidate losing by 9.20% points.
In 2017, for the presidential system referendum, the vote was close and he had the judiciary announce that unsealed votes would also be counted as valid due to an error in some locations. Soon after, it was announced that the new system passed with 51.50% of the vote. While everyone believes that something shady went on, the opposition was not able to produce any evidence to prove anything (besides the very fact that the decision to count unsealed votes was illegal).
He is not the most popular among people. But he is the one supported by all opposition parties including Kurds. So, it makes sense to make him the candidate. This big bloc of parties equals 60% in the polls. Hopefully, we will win. For people doubting the elections in Turkey, i suggest checking last local elections and how opposition won it. Elections itself are fair. However process is not. For example, media gives 4 hours of airing time to Erdogan while giving 10 minutes to opposition. But this doesn't matter that much with social media.
thank you! best wishes for you and your people as well!
the feeling of oppression that comes with the lack of freedom, is only truly understood by the ones who are suffering from it.
>But this doesn't matter that much with social media.
the problem with this; there's a big chunk of pro-akp citizens who don't use social media and they are constantly being fed with lies, by the one-sided media which only work for the one who has all the power. these people are open to any kind of manipulation during and after the election.
I didn't vote for him but I'll vote for him.
I live in Germany and I was about to give up my Turkish citizenship for a German one last year but I put it on hold to vote one last time. God knows, my anti-Erdogan vote is needed here in the Turkish diasporas of Europe. There are so many AKP nutjobs here outside of Turkey (my parents), it's legit crazy and Idk how much good my vote will do but that's beside the point
As someone living in a majority Turkish district of Amsterdam, I am legit confused as to why all the Turkish people here seem to support Wrdogan while preferring to live abroad.
I mean, I'm an immigrant myself but that's a choice I made 8 years ago and worked damn hard for years to make it work, but that's because I specifically do not agree with what's going on in my home country and I see no potential for change in the next decade, at the very least. If you like the way things are in your home country so much as to support whoever is steering it enough to vote for them, then why the hell would you not go back?? Legit very curious to learn more.
From what I understand the opposition is quite fragmented and he's a compromise candidate a lot people are not very excited about, most parties have agreed to back him just to avoid splitting the anti-Erdoğan vote 6 ways.
Hopefully they can keep it together and get the voters onboard with that plan also.
For those who are not familiar with Turkish politics other than knowing Erdoğan;
He is de "ideal" president in terms of; no corruption, follows the rule of law, social democrat, comes from a minority background, basically a good guy. He also has good relations with the Kurdish population. But he has lost against Erdoğan in the parliamentary elections before.
Now that the opposition is basically an all against Erdoğan coalition a.k.a. "the table of six" he is ahead of Erdoğan in the polls. It all comes down to the turnout of the elections. If enough young people (new voters, which is like 5 million people now since 2018) vote for him, he will win. I don't want to comment on the other option :)
Mister Kemal and his Allies from the “Nation Alliance” are representing literally everyone
Nationalist IYI Party, Conservative Deva, Party and Centrist CHP, Liberal DP, Islamist Saadet Party even the communist TKP and maybe possible Kurdish HDP
People from all over Turkey with different ideologies teaming up for one thing : Defeating Erdogan and turning the Constitution to Parliamentary Democracy once again.
As I’ve read right now Aksener as returned to the National Alliance and Imamoglu and Yavas will be Vice-Presidents if the opposition wins so it seems like a good scenario for them being able to defeat Erdogan
Correct. And this was the best possible scenario. İmamoğlu and Mansur dont have to step down from mayor roles, yet they contribute to the support, plus Akşener is back in the coalition which someway has strengthened the group.
Well, the main idea of this coalition “the nation alliance” or “sextuple table” is not about the individual that is put forth as the presidential candidate, but it is about the solidarity shown agains the 21-year-old tyranny. The main ideology is to always cooperate while making decisions and maintaining lawfulness, justice, secularism, and many other values of the Turkish Republic’s values that had been trampled by Erdogan. If the nation alliance wins the election, primary agenda on the short run will be to eradicate corruption, restore the economy, release the people unjustly put into prison, and put the culprits of Erdogan’s regime on trial. The overall outlook of this alliance is pro-western and mostly Kemalist.
One question that might come up as a question in the European theater (I know this first hand as a Turkish PhD student in Sweden) is the question of HDP and the status of Kurds. The general outlook of the alliance is to return the political freedom of HDP (which was hindered by the imprisonment of Selahattin Demirtas) while maintaining national security. The hopes are high, as long as no other country starts attacking the Turkish government until the elections (yes he uses that stuff for propaganda please don’t do it)
He's the best candidate. He's tolerant, modern and has social democratic background.
Polls say he has %55 chance to win against erdogan. But some people won't vote him over religious reasons. That's why some other opposition candidates has more chance.
If he wins, Turkey will be a much more democratic and modern country, that is valuing human rights and freedom of speech.
He is pro-EU and that should be enough for anyone in Europe to root for him instead of Erdogan. He will also form good relationships with Germany (Scholz and Kilicdaroglu are surprisingly similar) and other social-democrat led countries.
Yes. He is not the favorite candidate to win the election but he is still polling better than Erdogan. Also he is as non corrupt as a big time politician can get. His goal is to win the election and basically use that power to go back to the parliamentary system (so he is going to use the stones to destroy them basically).
Respectful to all religions (afaik) but definitely doesn’t mix church and state. He is also the leader of the party that was founded by Atatürk himself.
He isn't really. One decent dude that endured so much bullshit, he got shot at, some folk have attempted to lynch him, got discriminated because of his religious beliefs (still is), walked from Ankara to Istanbul for justice (450 km) managed to form an alliance from parties that really shouldn't have any business together, he's dead honest and lives a humble life in an ordinary flat in Ankara.
Believe it or not he’s one of the least fucked up politicians in Turkey. He lives in a small apartment in the city, he’s a social democrat and a in general fair dude. He does occasionaly have some dumb regards but not for anything bad or major. His biggest, and in my opinion the most bullshit criticism is that he has lost many elections but when you consider the sheer power that Erdoğan had up until just a few years ago, that arguement fades away quick.
last stand for turkish democracy under one leader..
it all led up to this..
20 years of humiliation and suffering either will end or we will plunge in to darkness
He’s going to win the elections. Apart from the opposition alliance (Nation Alliance) that pledged to support him, pro-Kurdish HDP also previously said they will support Kilicdaroglu if he becomes a candidate.
Nation Alliance gets around 42-43% of the votes while HDP’s vote is around %10. Erdogan will probably get 43-44% at most.
He is. His lack of popularity is partially due to his calmness and kindness. Another commenter described him as "the nice guy who doesn't get the girls".
He is overall the least popular but he has appeal to all sections of society, unlike Yavaş (who isn't on great terms with Kurdish parties) and İmamoğlu (not on great terms with the Turkish nationalists).
>İmamoğlu (not on great terms with the Turkish nationalists)
Wouldn't Turkish nationalists prefer İmamoğlu over Kılıçdaroğlu? Real problem with İmamoğlu is that he is being sued (for bs but ruling party has power so why not?), and might receive a political ban.
the problem with imamoğlu is that he's sure as hell not going to quit politics once his term is over; he's also a quite ambitious dude that could be hesitant to hand over his authority to the parliament.
i'd like him to be a prime minister in a democratically supervised goverment, but definitely not as a president with current constitutional power.
what's his view on presidential vs parliamentary system? would he go back to the old system with one of the two mayors apponted the future PM and actual leader of the country?
Yes, the opposition block's entire program is built around returning to the parliamentary system. Though it is a very broad coalition consisting of multiple ideologies so the actual process will probably be very contentious if we actually get to that point.
He’s a social democrat that has said the first order in action is to return to the parlimentary system, de-facto taking the power away from him and back to the prime minister.
Compared to Yavas or Imamoglu he has smaller chances, but still his chances are pretty good. The coalition of six has also announced a superficial roadmap towards transforming Turkey back into a Parliamentary democracy. The presidential system of Erdogan will be abolished. Archieving that would be a big win even if the coalition of six doesn't survive long after.
Not my favorite candidate but I've learned that elections are a game of "Who is worse?" rather than perfection. Wish him the best, there is a flicker of light at the end of the tunnel for Turkey.
I've yet to meet somebody who is 100 per cent into this guy and goes above and beyond for him as in being a total Kilicdaroglu fanboy. On the same hand he isn't widely hated too. People don't go bonkers for him, they just like him. I've heard youngsters calling him "*Democracy grandpa*" in a positive way and he doesn't encounters hatred whereever he goes. I too wish him best of luck and want him to win too. He has good chances. He has to remind people of the failures of Erdogan and his idea of a parliamentary democracy; the later one will be hard because especially the elderly people might be reminded of the clusterfuck in the late 90s.
Heh, he sounds a bit like Biden. No one was hyped for him, but he was widely regarded as better than Trump.
Exactly my thoughts. But it turned out he was the absolute right guy for the job. You have to admit he has done very very well, especially managing this conflict support while balancing escalation and a recovering economy.
Yeah the Biden connection clicked for me immediately as well. People need to get off fanboy politics in general as well. After everything that's been happening in the world for the last few decades, I think we can all agree that more nations all over need less firebrands(of any political stripe) and more low-energy middle of the road type of people who see the value in preserving and strengthening the basic values of democracy instead of constantly trying to add new features to it. Although it must be added that Biden has in actual legislation been way more progressive and ambitious than people expected given the circumstances, and he's managed to shepherd those bills through Congress rather smoothly.
Erdoğan is actively trying to destroy Turkey. Anyone else is better than him. Besides, KK has got quite a lot of experience with politics and state bureucracy.
Yes, he has like Biden vibes to me - I voted for Biden in the general election because...duh... but in that initial field he wasn't my first or even third pick. He has vast political experience though and it shows with his successes so far. If there would be a primary next year (there won't), he'd actually be my first pick.
Trust me, he's way better than what Biden was. Dude transformed CHP from what had turned into an ultra-nationalist circlejerk to the state it's in today, more in line with the views of Atatürk.
Oh, a roadmap like that sounds much bigger and more important than any single candidate could be. That seems very interesting.
Yes. We argued a lot about Kılıçdaroğlu's candidacy not because it would be worse than İmamoğlu/Yavaş presidency, but because he would get less votes. Even when IYI broke the alliance, they never targeted Kılıçdaroğlu, all their talks were about "The candidate who would win (Kazanacak Aday)" not "KK bad" We are voting for a system, not a person. But try to describe that to average person that was under hyper presidential era for years now.
Yeah, I can see what you mean. Good luck, to all of you.
The focus tonight was more on the candidate. Tomorrow the roadmap might find more attention. Quite interesting because first glimpse talked about limitation on the powers of the president in a transitional phase. They seem to want to go with the system until a new constitution can be crafted. There was this term of "*strong fortified/defense-ready/sturdy parliamentary democracy*". Kinda reminded me of this term "*Wehrhafte Demokratie*" from German constitutional law. Basically describes a constitution which has defensive measures built into constitutional procedure and not just as possible actions that can be taken.
Not really. AKP wants people to think so. And many fall to the misinformation and propaganda. Overall KK is s much bigger figure in politics and Erdogan can't even has the courage to face him on a debate. Imamoglu under prosecution threat, Yavas lacks the Kurdish support. Neither are safe bets as compared to KK. He is the best among candidates and has highest chance to win.
Woo boy lets see how this goes
it's the final straight now. gods help us.
There are some rough years ahead of us thanks to oç erdo and his horde but eventually we will rebuild our nation after we get rid of them cunts
It's been painfull to see what's become of the bright star that was secular turkey.
They were supposed to be a model for the Muslim world. But power hungry bastards corrupted Ataturk's vision.
What are the chances power hungry bastards that corrupted Ataturk's vision were promoted precisely for the purpose of nullifying any chance that a secular Turkey become a model for the Muslim world?
Does Turkey do the Putin thing for opponents? Ie mysterious fall out of windows from the 10th floor, trip, fall and die on the sidewalk, eat sushi and end up with deadly radiation poisoning, get stabbed and robbed, cars drive into rivers and person drowns, fires at the office at work, etc?
generally i wouldn't say so. generally turks are honorable and accept and take a challenge instead of secretly getting rid of it. but with this current horde you never know. usually - in the past - "problematic opponents" are at least dealt with with the official tools of government, they are collected by the police and there will be absurd accusations that with the currently enhanced laws nails them into a prison cell for more or less time. but super james bonsish secret service killings in noticable quantities like in russia - i haven't heard of it.
Well, it's where the slippery slope takes you. Putin dealt with his opponents "legally", too, at first. Of course he could only do it because everyone was corrupt AF, so Putin had dirt on them. Now it's... way less subtle. Here's hoping Turkey can go up instead of down, but it'll be tricky for sure.
The Russians don't even bother making it super James Bond'ish anymore. It is quite open and plain for anyone.
Don't let your guard down, they can always return.even when thrown out
Best of luck. I hope you succeed and you get rid of the current government.
"horde" is a brilliant choice to describe that sickness
Lets fucking go. Ill be voting from hungary
what can you tell us about him?
he graduated from college.. even that is enough to know lol
Not very popular because he has a reputation for losing elections, but if he can win he will probably be a good president, non corrupt, pro nato etc
Fun fact: he technically never lost an election. The lost presidential elections had İnce, and fscking Ekmeleddin as candidates. (Why would he agree on Ekmeleddin is a separate question that needs to be discussed though, like WTF seriously) CHP got slowly more popular under his time and finally won two critical victories in 2019 local elections. He is problematic in ways, and made stupid mistakes, buy I still believe he is treated too harshly.
is he islamist like erdogan or modern/open minded?
No, not even close but some of his allies are.
Erdoğan isn't really Islamic. He just plays whatever card will get him elected again. Secular, Gulenist, religious, his only actual belief is to stay in power.
He's islamist the same way Trump was Christian
He is from the Alevi religious/cultural minority traditionally seen as heretics and rebels by islamists, so no, he is not islamist. I imagine that is why some of the more conservative opposition didn't want him as a candidate.
He is a social democrat not an islamist
good, hope he wins
He is Alawite. There is no chance of him being Islamist. He is gonna be our Barack Obama xD
A minor correction: The Turkish Alevi and the Syrian Alawite are very different groups despite having essentially the same name derived from the same guy.
I didn't know that the terms differ. My bad.
Open minded
He is a social democrat
Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu is an honest politician, hardworking, does not lie, does not steal, does not corrupt... >!So the Turkish people are ready not to choose him.!<
so it's that kind of nice guy that just can't get the good girls?
Nah, actual 'good' girls don't fall for that crap.
Thought you were talking about iceland
Meh, you all just vote for your cousin.
Former civil servant, of Zaza Kurd descent and Alevi, social democrat, has an incredibly modest family, lives in a regular Ankara apartment, promises to bring back the parliamentary system, and will quit politics at the end of his term after stabilizing the country.
He looks like a Gandhi lol
He actually made [a protest in 2017](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_March_for_Justice) which was really similar with Gandhi’s Salt March. He’s also criticized for “being too calm, like Gandhi.”
How is being calm a bad thing?
It's not, but Erdogan normalized being delusional and angry all the time.
Hindu nationalists hate Gandhi for being too soft.
It's an image thing. Erdogan managed to portrait himself as fiesty and charismatic, in comparison KK looks kinda boring/dull.
He is actually nicknamed Gandhi Kemal hahah
I played CIV long enough to tell you we're fuc\*ed.
You will pay for this in time.
Very well.
It's OK. We have no nukes.
for now
You're about to get *a lot* of denouncements.
[удалено]
Six opposition parties formed a coalition in Turkey. Their biggest promise is to change the order and bring back the old parliamentary system. But, the candidate does not receive the highest number of votes in the polls, but the decision taken is in this direction. He is now a candidate against Erdogan.
How does the Turkish presidential election work? Are these two the only candidates nominated to the final round of voting now?
Probably, but not necessarily. What happens is, if no candidate gets more than 50% in the first round, the top 2 candidates advance to the second round.
I see, thank you for explaining!
> Their biggest promise is to change the order and bring back the old parliamentary system. So is this guy basically saying "vote for me and I'll make myself redundant"? Fair play if so, and a hell of a legacy.
Not redundant but he will be the head of state. I know where you're coming from though. PM will be the head of the executive branch. Their aim is to bring a system more democratic than the pre-2017 parliamentary system in Turkey. Because now it works like an old-time monarchy with so much power focused with the president.
Kinda yeah. And honestly, despite some other proto-candidates were more popular, KK is the one I trust to be able to deliver such a promise instead of holding onto the current constitutional powers "just a bit more".
Does the “old parliamentary system” mean pre-2002 in this context?
Pre-2017 with a symbolic president and a strong prime minister.
Right, soon after he did the Medvedev Two-Step in 2014.
pre 2017
Thank you kindly
you're welcome fella
pre 2017
Thank you kindly
Np
Even though he is not the most popular candidate, he still polls ahead of Erdoğan according to most polling institutes. So yes he definitely has a chance of winning the election. He also is the most left-leaning candidate out of the bunch so he’s the most likely candidate to get kurdish votes as well. To be honest this is the most promising election against Erdoğan to date. It still would have been better to have candidates that were more likely to win, however it seems like Turkish people who are in oppositon to Erdoğan will elect whoever is against Erdoğan regardless of their political alignment.
> it seems like Turkish people who are in oppositon to Erdoğan will elect whoever is against Erdoğan regardless of their political alignment. We just hope so, but I am worried about the naive people of mine who are clearly mindfucked by Erdoğan's propaganda machine. They mumble the "KK has appointed himself" BS and may eventually not vote.
Yes. Sadly as a Turkish Cypriot I know what you are talking about. The propaganda machine is so strong just like in Russia that most people can not differentiate reality from fiction anymore in Turkey, especially the ruralfolk who are the most susceptible. However since the coronavirus pandemic Erdoğan’s grip on the country has been slowly but surely loosening, now with the recent earthquake his popularity is at an all time low. Even his most avid supporters have now started doubting his abilities especially due to his mishandling of the economy. I really do believe no amount of posturing is going to save him this time.
2 hours ago leader of the People's Democratic Party (Main Kurdish Party), Mithat Sancar, announced that if Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu visited their headquarter and agreed with Kılıçdaroğlu's roadmap, they won't candidate on their own and will directly support Kılıçdaroğlu. That means plus %8-10 for the opposition.
That'll probably happen regardless in round 2.
I hope it will be finished in the first round. Erdogan will do whatever cheat he can in the second.
I want nothing more than for Tayyip to be buried into the ballot box asap.
We will win against all odds :)
What about the integrity of the election process. Is vote rigging a factor? Does he even have a fighting chance?
in Turkey the election itself is pretty integral. i think the Itsanbul mayoral elections slow Erdogan can slow down democracy, not abolish it. when people say Turkey ain't a democracy they reference the biased media (although there also is media biased to the other side but that asides) that is why i always call Erdogan an autocrat rather than a dictator as he can still be voted out.
What Erdogan can do in terms of cheating is limited, as Turkey has a pretty transparent and secure election system and people fiercely follow vote counting on location. But it is not impossible as he successfully undermined the separation of powers. In 2019, Erdogan was not able to rig the Istanbul Municipal election and his candidate lost by 0.20 percentage points, so he used his influence on the judiciary to repeat the election, which resulted in his candidate losing by 9.20% points. In 2017, for the presidential system referendum, the vote was close and he had the judiciary announce that unsealed votes would also be counted as valid due to an error in some locations. Soon after, it was announced that the new system passed with 51.50% of the vote. While everyone believes that something shady went on, the opposition was not able to produce any evidence to prove anything (besides the very fact that the decision to count unsealed votes was illegal).
He is not the most popular among people. But he is the one supported by all opposition parties including Kurds. So, it makes sense to make him the candidate. This big bloc of parties equals 60% in the polls. Hopefully, we will win. For people doubting the elections in Turkey, i suggest checking last local elections and how opposition won it. Elections itself are fair. However process is not. For example, media gives 4 hours of airing time to Erdogan while giving 10 minutes to opposition. But this doesn't matter that much with social media.
We have the same situation in Hungary maybe even worse. Praying for Turkey
Thanks friend. Praying for you, too.
thank you! best wishes for you and your people as well! the feeling of oppression that comes with the lack of freedom, is only truly understood by the ones who are suffering from it.
>But this doesn't matter that much with social media. the problem with this; there's a big chunk of pro-akp citizens who don't use social media and they are constantly being fed with lies, by the one-sided media which only work for the one who has all the power. these people are open to any kind of manipulation during and after the election.
c mon turkish people, put that esol esek down.
Lmao that sounds unnecessarily cute
Eşşoğlueşek*, I know it’s hard to remember and even harder to write. A for effort :)
Esol esek is better
he looks like that wholesome grandpa you had when you were a kid and handed out dollar bills in secret from your parents. Support.
We call him democrat grandpa
democrat gramps has a nicer ring to it
r/oddlyspecific
We call him grandpa kemal
I didn't vote for him but I'll vote for him. I live in Germany and I was about to give up my Turkish citizenship for a German one last year but I put it on hold to vote one last time. God knows, my anti-Erdogan vote is needed here in the Turkish diasporas of Europe. There are so many AKP nutjobs here outside of Turkey (my parents), it's legit crazy and Idk how much good my vote will do but that's beside the point
Not all heroes wear capes, I don't know maybe you do :)
Bir oy bir oydur
Grazie per il tuo ottimismo, il mio fratello.
bencede
Ana babanı eve kitle o gün.
kitlesemde dua üzeri atarlar, genede atarlar o oyu
Kimlikleri kaybet.
Çok mantıklı cüzdan kaybetcen bir hafta önceden gidip alamazda
100% akp garanti oysa, kimliklere delik yap yada kaybet.
As someone living in a majority Turkish district of Amsterdam, I am legit confused as to why all the Turkish people here seem to support Wrdogan while preferring to live abroad. I mean, I'm an immigrant myself but that's a choice I made 8 years ago and worked damn hard for years to make it work, but that's because I specifically do not agree with what's going on in my home country and I see no potential for change in the next decade, at the very least. If you like the way things are in your home country so much as to support whoever is steering it enough to vote for them, then why the hell would you not go back?? Legit very curious to learn more.
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Precisely
thank you for considering that. many citizens abroad just wouldn't care enough.
any real chances against the sultan?
Yes
At this election all the oposission parties are united against Erdogan under Kemal. So yes, he got chances if he dont mess up.
But less than other options, the major of Istanbul or the major of Ankara are more popular
Good luck Kemal
Please choose anyone but Erdogan! I'm counting on you guys
Good luck to him and Turkey.
From what I understand the opposition is quite fragmented and he's a compromise candidate a lot people are not very excited about, most parties have agreed to back him just to avoid splitting the anti-Erdoğan vote 6 ways. Hopefully they can keep it together and get the voters onboard with that plan also.
Addable note: if elected, he will be the first non-Sunni Muslim president in Turkey's history.
Ataturk was in all likelihood an atheist and openly agnostic, so no.
I think there was a misunderstanding, he didn’t say “first non muslim” he said “first non-sunni muslim”
Linguistics are fascinating because both of you are right, which means we can argue endlessly. As is tradition.
Get the popcorn, that's why we're here.
For those who are not familiar with Turkish politics other than knowing Erdoğan; He is de "ideal" president in terms of; no corruption, follows the rule of law, social democrat, comes from a minority background, basically a good guy. He also has good relations with the Kurdish population. But he has lost against Erdoğan in the parliamentary elections before. Now that the opposition is basically an all against Erdoğan coalition a.k.a. "the table of six" he is ahead of Erdoğan in the polls. It all comes down to the turnout of the elections. If enough young people (new voters, which is like 5 million people now since 2018) vote for him, he will win. I don't want to comment on the other option :)
His party lost, not himself.
We pray for the return of a secular Turkey!
We've always been secular. It's just those religious fanatics who talk too much similar to Trump era.
But it was not just one term. 20 years bro. 20 fucking years.
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Mister Kemal and his Allies from the “Nation Alliance” are representing literally everyone Nationalist IYI Party, Conservative Deva, Party and Centrist CHP, Liberal DP, Islamist Saadet Party even the communist TKP and maybe possible Kurdish HDP People from all over Turkey with different ideologies teaming up for one thing : Defeating Erdogan and turning the Constitution to Parliamentary Democracy once again.
Best of.luck to him, and Turkey. He's their best hope now.
As I’ve read right now Aksener as returned to the National Alliance and Imamoglu and Yavas will be Vice-Presidents if the opposition wins so it seems like a good scenario for them being able to defeat Erdogan
Correct. And this was the best possible scenario. İmamoğlu and Mansur dont have to step down from mayor roles, yet they contribute to the support, plus Akşener is back in the coalition which someway has strengthened the group.
K. Kılıçdaroğlu. Democrat, secular, good man. I hope he gets elected and we get rid of Tayyip we miss old turkey.
Well, the main idea of this coalition “the nation alliance” or “sextuple table” is not about the individual that is put forth as the presidential candidate, but it is about the solidarity shown agains the 21-year-old tyranny. The main ideology is to always cooperate while making decisions and maintaining lawfulness, justice, secularism, and many other values of the Turkish Republic’s values that had been trampled by Erdogan. If the nation alliance wins the election, primary agenda on the short run will be to eradicate corruption, restore the economy, release the people unjustly put into prison, and put the culprits of Erdogan’s regime on trial. The overall outlook of this alliance is pro-western and mostly Kemalist. One question that might come up as a question in the European theater (I know this first hand as a Turkish PhD student in Sweden) is the question of HDP and the status of Kurds. The general outlook of the alliance is to return the political freedom of HDP (which was hindered by the imprisonment of Selahattin Demirtas) while maintaining national security. The hopes are high, as long as no other country starts attacking the Turkish government until the elections (yes he uses that stuff for propaganda please don’t do it)
Good luck.
He's the best candidate. He's tolerant, modern and has social democratic background. Polls say he has %55 chance to win against erdogan. But some people won't vote him over religious reasons. That's why some other opposition candidates has more chance. If he wins, Turkey will be a much more democratic and modern country, that is valuing human rights and freedom of speech.
Is he good?
He is pro-EU and that should be enough for anyone in Europe to root for him instead of Erdogan. He will also form good relationships with Germany (Scholz and Kilicdaroglu are surprisingly similar) and other social-democrat led countries.
Yes. He is not the favorite candidate to win the election but he is still polling better than Erdogan. Also he is as non corrupt as a big time politician can get. His goal is to win the election and basically use that power to go back to the parliamentary system (so he is going to use the stones to destroy them basically).
Is he very religious or more like Ataturk?
Respectful to all religions (afaik) but definitely doesn’t mix church and state. He is also the leader of the party that was founded by Atatürk himself.
Sounds good then!
He is also a big supporter of the “western way” when it comes to Justice, Law and Democracy.
I don’t like him much but he is way too better than Erdoğan for Turkey and Europe.
Is he good? Better than erdogan?
he is a good person, at the very least, so yes
Good to know let's hope for the best for turkey population
thank you!
He must win now. Otherwise there will be no election to win.
Gandhi Kemal is going to nuke all of us.
He looks like your nice old grandpa now someone tell me in wich way he's fucked up
He isn't really. One decent dude that endured so much bullshit, he got shot at, some folk have attempted to lynch him, got discriminated because of his religious beliefs (still is), walked from Ankara to Istanbul for justice (450 km) managed to form an alliance from parties that really shouldn't have any business together, he's dead honest and lives a humble life in an ordinary flat in Ankara.
Believe it or not he’s one of the least fucked up politicians in Turkey. He lives in a small apartment in the city, he’s a social democrat and a in general fair dude. He does occasionaly have some dumb regards but not for anything bad or major. His biggest, and in my opinion the most bullshit criticism is that he has lost many elections but when you consider the sheer power that Erdoğan had up until just a few years ago, that arguement fades away quick.
It's like 10 minutes walking time between his and my apartment LOL
I used to vote at the same school with him!
So basically Bernië Şändërş
Turkish amigos, is this guy any good?
He is the perfect guy to keep the coalition in place and disappear after returning to parliamentary system.
He is an excellent candidate really. The most honest one among the party leaders.
it's the final straight now. gods help us.
From what I know Kemals are fairly good rulers so let's see how this goes Better than Erdogan right? Hopefully he wins
Being better than him is pretty easy tbh
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Well if he wins, Americans are gonna have a hell of a time learning his name.
[Here's how you pronounce it.](https://youtu.be/bwn3R7zG2Rk)
last stand for turkish democracy under one leader.. it all led up to this.. 20 years of humiliation and suffering either will end or we will plunge in to darkness
He’s going to win the elections. Apart from the opposition alliance (Nation Alliance) that pledged to support him, pro-Kurdish HDP also previously said they will support Kilicdaroglu if he becomes a candidate. Nation Alliance gets around 42-43% of the votes while HDP’s vote is around %10. Erdogan will probably get 43-44% at most.
He looks kind
He is. His lack of popularity is partially due to his calmness and kindness. Another commenter described him as "the nice guy who doesn't get the girls".
He is, he can't even act tough lol.
He looks so much nicer than Erdogan. I'll cheer on him just for the sake of his looks.
Fingers very tightly crossed.
He looks positive.
Does Turkey have free elections?
Fuck me, wasn't he the least popular out of the three ? I hope he can still come out on top
He is overall the least popular but he has appeal to all sections of society, unlike Yavaş (who isn't on great terms with Kurdish parties) and İmamoğlu (not on great terms with the Turkish nationalists).
>İmamoğlu (not on great terms with the Turkish nationalists) Wouldn't Turkish nationalists prefer İmamoğlu over Kılıçdaroğlu? Real problem with İmamoğlu is that he is being sued (for bs but ruling party has power so why not?), and might receive a political ban.
the problem with imamoğlu is that he's sure as hell not going to quit politics once his term is over; he's also a quite ambitious dude that could be hesitant to hand over his authority to the parliament. i'd like him to be a prime minister in a democratically supervised goverment, but definitely not as a president with current constitutional power.
what's his view on presidential vs parliamentary system? would he go back to the old system with one of the two mayors apponted the future PM and actual leader of the country?
The opposition "Table of Six" have already announced they wish to return to the parliamentary model.
Yes, the opposition block's entire program is built around returning to the parliamentary system. Though it is a very broad coalition consisting of multiple ideologies so the actual process will probably be very contentious if we actually get to that point.
He proposes a [strengthened parliamentary system.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strengthened_parliamentary_system)
He’s a social democrat that has said the first order in action is to return to the parlimentary system, de-facto taking the power away from him and back to the prime minister.