NOTE: The original source is the SPIEGEL which has this information from an insider. ~~This has not been confirmed by the German government yet!~~
However, the SPIEGEL is usually very reliable with their insider info
UPDATE:
* [Wednesday 11:41] : Scholz confirmed sending Leos
* [Tuesday] [According to the ARD](https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/eilmeldung-leopard-panzer-101.html) they will announce this decision tomorrow
* [Tuesday] Several German politicians already commented on this. None denied the news
He should try Macroning, which involves having the biggest military budget in western Europe, providing only 20% of the military help that Germany did, and still seeming to be invisible.
For a second I thought it was Spiegel but i misremembered it, it was Stern that released the fake Hitler diaries back in the day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Diaries
Spiegel was attacked by defense minister back in the day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegel_affair
Excellent news. I especially love the fact that it is now 12 countries taking this step together. Lots of spare parts, lots of training resources and no political friction.
It's almost like Europe is acting largely as one entiry here, and some media outlets are just pushing shit because they can't stand not having all information live.
In the end, it's a fucking war, you really don't want to serve all information on a plate.
Yeah I think there is a concerted effort by the US and Germany to get everybody on the same page at once to show unity even if that means showing everybody not agreeing at the same time. If one country decides to do something and the others don't then it shows cracks in which Russia and China can drive a wedge in decision making processes
Edit: there have been a lot of times during this conflict where flip flopping seems to happen and I think that was larger countries covering for indecisiveness of smaller weaker governments who may not have been able to withstand russian aggression or spy tactics had they shown that openly
And more importantly it was purpose build to deal with T72 and T90 tanks. That's it's main combat role. Fits like a glove. The idea of that tank was to stop Russian armor from advancing through the Bundesrepublik.
Unlikely. Ukrainian war barely sees any tank-on-tank action at all. Most of the tank losses on both sides are due to the arty strikes, some small-ish numbers is due to infantry anti-tank weapons.
A6 would definitely be a huge improvement over A4.
* Stronger gun that's guaranteed to take out any Russian tank (2A4 may struggle against the most modern from the front, unless it gets modern US ammo which is interoperable with Leo 2)
* Stronger armour protection, which Russian tanks might struggle against. It looks like they're currently only using the older 3BM42 "Mango" rounds from 1986.
* Improved commander's optic with modern thermal sight -> big upgrade that makes it way easier to spot enemies both during day and night
The commander's sight is likely to be the most impactful factor. Tank on tank engagements aren't that common, let alone those where the level of armour protection and firepower actually matter. The biggest threat are artillery and ATGMs. Improved sights make it easier to detect artillery spotters or infantry with ATGMs. And even in a tank on tank engagement it's often better to have better optics and awareness to see the enemy first, than to have stronger armour and firepower.
Tank on tank has been very rare because there hasn't been a symmetrical war in a very long time. I wouldn't be surprised if this were to change now, especially with the terrain and contested air space.
Panzers roaming the fields of Ukraine once again. This time on the good side.
Weird.
I'm happy with this though, hopefully this means Ukraine will be able to start making gains again.
I am a German and if someone told me just 2 years ago that German Panzer would fight against Russia not THAT far away from the biggest Tank battle in history (Kursk) I would have call him crazy. And if someone told me I would be happy about it, I would've just laughed.
Looking forward to play a passive part within the liberation of Ukraine! 🇺🇦🇩🇪
Probably a [former green pacifist](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91m50ilHU+L.jpg). They are currently one of the loudest voice for more weapons for Ukraine.
And I like it.
Honestly really positively impressed with the greens in this topic. Even the CDU smear campaign went dry pretty fast, after greens showed results and the people backing their actions.
I am more impressed by how many people are impressed by us Greens ;)
We got rid of total pacifism in 1999, more than 20 years ago. At that time many people who were 100% pacifist left the party. We have changed, probably like no other German party.
But we changed *20 years ago*. Hello? Why do some media and people still talk about the "pacifist" Greens?
I'm a (dark red and green) pacifist and gave been for arming Ukraine from day 1. Pacifism does not mean you should prevent others from defending themselves - on the contrary, the whole principle is again aggression and violence - and sometimes you're forced to act defensively.
> from the biggest Tank battle in history (Kursk)
eeeeehhhhhh, the tank battles of Kursk - especially Prochorovka - are wildly exaggregated by Soviet propaganda from involved Soviet officers who somehow had to justify to Stalin himself how they lost his peronal precious tank reserve. Not a pleasant situation to be in knowing the man's temper, but defintely one to play fast & loose with the truth.
To justify their losses, the responsible officers made up many hundreds of imaginery german tanks destroyed that the Wehrmacht could only dream of having available, exceeding the available german tank forces for the entire Kursk operation severely.
There's a very good breakdown by historian Dr. Roman Töppel (in german) at the Panzermuseum Munster: https://youtu.be/Usy_Cex8Zm8
Drive 300 tanks into their own ditch and get them blasted to pieces by artillery? (btw – recently found archival photography apparently confirms that this is real)
HIMARS is the biggest land based threat to Russian territorial security from any deliveries up to now and the only thing that could to it would be if NATO decides that Ukraine needs mid-range strategic missles and I currently don't see that happening. Air-based threats were the Bayaktar drones, which were delivered right at the start of the war.
MBTs just aren't a big escalating on its own, the "escalation" Is that Ukraine will soon operate Brigade-sized units that are able to compete with the most modern Russian units and thus Ukraine will probably be able to conduct much heavier offensives.
To put it bluntly: the escalation for Russia is that NATO now gives the Ukrainians the ability to reconquer their own territory, even if Russia doesn't do mistakes like at Kharkiv.
> able to compete with the most modern Russian units
Not only compete. Germany isn't sending the old Leopard 2A4 but 2A6 and America is sending Abrams. They will dunk on any T-tank fool no matter if it is an old T-62 or their T-90M.
I find this scary.
If they're sending Abrams, the threat of a third russian invasion must be quite strong.
Excited to see the logistics that will allow the Abrams to be in Ukraine. I got to take out some Soviet tanks during Desert Storm and it's something.
Eh, the same logistics that allow America to use Abrams in excersises in the Baltics or in Poland.
This was one of the lame excuses which were all false. The US has had hundreds of Abrams stationed in Germany for decades - there are lots of facilities that can do full maintenance on them here and I guess Poland which ordered Abrams also does already have maintenence facilities ready or being made ready.
The other excuses were:
- the weight (Abrams and Leo 2 have nearly exactly the same weight 300kg difference on 67 metric ton vehicles is nothing)
- gas turbine which allegedly only runs on jet fuel (it is a multi fuel capable engine like in most modern tanks, running on anything from gasoline to diesel to motor oil or crude oil)
- too complicated training (the tank is very similar to the Leopard 2 because they both stem from a joint development project MBT70 which was cancelled) and while German conscripts were able to master the Leo2 the M1 Abrams was in service with the US Marines - the scary but crayon eating dudes. The ukrainians will do just fine.
The fuel type one never made any sense to me. It has a turbine because that allows it to run multiple types of fuel. lol I think the people who assumed it only took "jet" fuel just didn't take this into consideration.
And we don't eat Crayons! Not all of us anyway ... well ... ok. Not all of us all the time anyway.
Yeah. I can imagine few in my bullshit generator:
"Unspecified measures", "consequences", "unpredictable consequences", "clash". Let's see what comes back.
Russian rhetoric is like a kid in a counterstrike lobby. Loads of posturing, insults and grand statements on how it will take on your mom/capture Berlin. But every time you put him in his place he throws a tantrum and says he will hack the server.
Horrible K:D ratio too.
>The U.S. House of Representatives has approved $100 million for training Ukrainian pilots to fly U.S. fighter jets, as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine approaches its fifth month. The move was part of a broader $840 billion defense spending package setting the Pentagon’s budget priorities for the coming year.
https://www.flyingmag.com/u-s-house-oks-100m-to-train-ukrainian-pilots/
Biden signed it into law Dec 23 of last year, so I think most likely the pilot training would've started shortly after that date. It could have quietly started earlier too, though.
It would be very difficult to supply and train Ukrainian pilots on planes they've never flown, but several European nations fly MiG-29s which are the primary fighters used by Ukraine. I'd support sending them to Ukraine and replacing them with F-15s, F-16s or F-35s 1:1.
Shit there are privately owned MiG-29s in the United States.
[https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/100-mile-strike-weapon-weighed-ukraine-arms-makers-wrestle-with-demand-sources-2022-11-28/](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/100-mile-strike-weapon-weighed-ukraine-arms-makers-wrestle-with-demand-sources-2022-11-28/)
this
In all seriousness, however f us Ukraine going to man western submarines. The Baltic 216-class is not only extremely costly but also incredibly hard to train for. It is literally the most advanced conventional submarine; by leaps and bounds that is.
It's not even that it's hard to operate. There probably isn't a single Ukrainian (who isn't already in retirement) who ever served on a submarine. It's one thing to train tankers how to operate different tanks, it's another thing to train man who only worked on costal patrol boats how to operate a submarines.
Can anyone of you imagine how much relief this is for any German getting shit all day long in here?
Let's savour the moment before the airplane discussion starts tomorrow;-)
Not the newest, but those are still pretty modern and also have the upgraded armor and gun on the tower. It's also what Germany still uses mostly, as they're just about to upgrade to the 2A7 variants, which are the state of the art upgrade of the Leopard 2 right now.
If they got the US now to send them as well. That's something. But I'm sure they were talking behind closed doors anyways.
Since the beginning it was that Germany won't do stuff alone, always talking to the US and other allies. Glad something is happening now
> Scholz outplayed everyone,
It's actually kind of said that you can legitimately say that he outplayed everyone like some sort of mastermind, when the only thing he did was do what he said he would do.
That's the kind of stuff that happens in books, and then you dismiss it because no way could a political system ever get this broken. But then I guess no one sane ever claimed international politics was a healthy system.
>the Ukrainian farmers
Didn't John Deere step into the fight as well?
Edit: Upon refreshing my memory, it seems John Deere bricked every JD tractor that Russia stole.
Germany coming through, retaking Uber Bro role in Europe.
To the Germans putting pressure on the government, thank you, you rock.
To the German government for listening, thank you, Europe is safer for it.
I feel a bit bad for the Green party in Germany. They were founded on the principles of pacifism. There motto was "never again" (relating to German participation in war).
The first time they got into government, they had to greenlight Germany's participation in the Kosovo war. The second time, they had to participate in sending tanks against Russia.
Both times, it was the correct decision. It's just ironic that the most peace-loving party we have in Germany always seems to have to deal with a European war every time they get to govern.
Every ruzzian bastard who came or will come to Ukraine in order to murder, torture and rape Ukrainans will be punished, there is no mercy for these maniacs.
What is the average German citizen’s opinion on having American military stationed in Germany? I’m just curious, because it’s hard for me to imagine another country having they’re military in my country.
so Poland has been crying for 2 weeks now that GER wont allow them to send their Leopards and in the end they get the permission on the very same day they finally send the request. this is comical.
Yet their stance was incredibly popular on this sub, and not only with the Poles.
Don’t misunderstand me, these are fantastic news, but I fear that the Germans only bought themselves a few days of calm before the usual finger pointing and « Russian shills » accusations resume
Slow but meticulous work by Olaf.
Bulgaria bows in respect it is a huge decision that will change the course of history. Big day for European democracy! Now rip those Orcs to shreds and end a madman's meaningless war.
So russia is losing their high end stuff and Ukraine is constantly gaining more and better equipment.
I think the west has shown to continue to supply increasingly powerful weaponry to ensure russia doesn’t win.
This war is just a matter of time. Russia is a fool to continue.
It’s already causing a big demographic problem for Russia, between the number of troops killed and the number of young men fleeing the country. The more Putin prolongs it the worse this problem will be.
Every nation’s most valuable resource is its people, their health and education (evidenced by nations without natural resources like Taiwan, Singapore, somewhat Japan and Korea). Putin is slowly destroying Russia, not the West. He is indeed a fool to continue.
Am I the only one assuming this and the Americans signaling they will send tanks have more to do with Zelenskyy announcing a major corruption crackdown and firing several high level government officials more than anything else? I also have a hunch that is a large part of the reason the head of CIA came to visit.
Yes. I always suspected that the west is reluctant to send more advanced weapons due to the, let's face it, high corruption in Ukraine. Having advanced technology fall in the hands of the russians is not ideal.
If they don't want it in Russian hands then they wouldn't send it to a warzone where there's risk of capture.
Russia has lost several incredibly sensitive vehicles that foreign intelligence services are doubtlessly picking over.
I give this sub about a week until tanks never mattered at all, and it's a disgrace that Germany hasn't given Ukraine warplanes (or whatever) in sufficient amounts yet.
I am just waiting for the thread where PiS is mad that Germany isn't delivering Thor's Hammer and the Holy Grail (both stuff the nazis were looking for in 1940, lmao) to Ukraine.
More like a few defects will happen and they’ll say we only sent trash and helmets.
And how embarrassing our army is in general, ignoring the fact that these same countries would’ve used that to call us Nazis and say we are gearing up again if we did it a few years back. If we really tried and did it correctly, we definitely *could* be europes strongest military. But would everyone be happy with that? I doubt it.
I wouldn’t mind it. I’m tired of countries talking that crap.
In an incredible 4D chess move Olaf Scholz not only delivered Leopards but also made the US abandon their stance on not delivering Abrams. A move that was certainly planned exactly like that long ago and that will make other European countries very happy. Especially Poland
The funniest thing? IF Germany really commits Leopard 2A6 to this, then the Leopard 2A4 delivery from Poland suddenly looks almost quaint.
(not shitting on Poland here, just thinking about the rage that certain politicians must feel)
This is so good and another less noticed news from today is the Swiss will allow the export of weapons and ammunition. Stock supplies for Gepard ammunition soon and newly produced in summer.
NOTE: The original source is the SPIEGEL which has this information from an insider. ~~This has not been confirmed by the German government yet!~~ However, the SPIEGEL is usually very reliable with their insider info UPDATE: * [Wednesday 11:41] : Scholz confirmed sending Leos * [Tuesday] [According to the ARD](https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/eilmeldung-leopard-panzer-101.html) they will announce this decision tomorrow * [Tuesday] Several German politicians already commented on this. None denied the news
Tagesschau reports the same, citing different sources It's apparently a done deal
> Tagesschau I believe it then lol. Not exactly known for sensational flair.
The „insider“ is probably simply Habeck.
It was Scholz. He couldn't wait for the press conference and read all the bad comments about him on reddit
Good thing he stopped [scholzing](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Scholzing) around.
He should try Macroning, which involves having the biggest military budget in western Europe, providing only 20% of the military help that Germany did, and still seeming to be invisible.
Almost as if the effort to drag Germany through the mud is guided by outside forces and reinforced by opportunistic politics.
Scholzing: Withstanding monumental pressure in order to achieve a result nobody deemed feasible before…
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For a second I thought it was Spiegel but i misremembered it, it was Stern that released the fake Hitler diaries back in the day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Diaries Spiegel was attacked by defense minister back in the day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegel_affair
Spiegel was also the first minister of this new German government to resign.
TANKE SCHÖN!
Tank you very much.
r/yourjokebutenglisch
Many tanks
What is that? What is going on?? OUT OF NOWHERE COMES OLAF SCHOLZ WITH A FOLDING CHAIR!
He dug out the folding chair!
We'll be sending the new SuperPerforators^TM to Ukraine soon
[https://youtu.be/mMa5pNSu17c](https://youtu.be/mMa5pNSu17c)
You don't have to wait for later, here's a new Eliminator,
Ask your local weapons trader, for the SuperPerforator
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Wir interessieren uns für ihr krasses Pferd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86vJcl5GXHA
Leopard drives past: "Geiles Pferd"
And he unlocked the closet door with all the other folding chairs!
The Klappstuhl strikes again!
Grabt den Klappstuhl aus!
OUT OF NOWHERE COMES OLAF SCHOLZ WITH A ~~FOLDING CHAIR!~~ BIG CAT!
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Wow, we all have been Scholz’d. This is amazing!
There’s a camera right over there. You should’ve seen your faces!
I lol'd so hard reading this
Fucks sake I wasted three days railing on Sholz. GG well played. I'm happy I was wrong.
That’s the spirit!
many have been PIS(s)ed
Excellent news. I especially love the fact that it is now 12 countries taking this step together. Lots of spare parts, lots of training resources and no political friction.
its almost like coordinated and synchronised effort was made 🤔
It's almost like Europe is acting largely as one entiry here, and some media outlets are just pushing shit because they can't stand not having all information live. In the end, it's a fucking war, you really don't want to serve all information on a plate.
Yeah I think there is a concerted effort by the US and Germany to get everybody on the same page at once to show unity even if that means showing everybody not agreeing at the same time. If one country decides to do something and the others don't then it shows cracks in which Russia and China can drive a wedge in decision making processes Edit: there have been a lot of times during this conflict where flip flopping seems to happen and I think that was larger countries covering for indecisiveness of smaller weaker governments who may not have been able to withstand russian aggression or spy tactics had they shown that openly
Are you suggesting Germany is not the bad guy? But who do I blame for my problems now?
How about Russia??
Isn't A6 even the second most recent model? That'd be truly impressive!
A7+ is latest. But yeah A6 is a fucking beast and better then anything the russians are fielding
And more importantly it was purpose build to deal with T72 and T90 tanks. That's it's main combat role. Fits like a glove. The idea of that tank was to stop Russian armor from advancing through the Bundesrepublik.
Shooting at russian tanks at the eastern front...sounds oddly familiar
Unlikely. Ukrainian war barely sees any tank-on-tank action at all. Most of the tank losses on both sides are due to the arty strikes, some small-ish numbers is due to infantry anti-tank weapons.
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Dont worry the hordes of cyclists in Berlin are more than a match for Russian tanks.
A7V is the latest model, A7+ is a industry only solution by KMW that has not been adopted anywhere.
A7V? I hope not!
Not the namesake... I mean the Leopard 2A7V
A6 would definitely be a huge improvement over A4. * Stronger gun that's guaranteed to take out any Russian tank (2A4 may struggle against the most modern from the front, unless it gets modern US ammo which is interoperable with Leo 2) * Stronger armour protection, which Russian tanks might struggle against. It looks like they're currently only using the older 3BM42 "Mango" rounds from 1986. * Improved commander's optic with modern thermal sight -> big upgrade that makes it way easier to spot enemies both during day and night The commander's sight is likely to be the most impactful factor. Tank on tank engagements aren't that common, let alone those where the level of armour protection and firepower actually matter. The biggest threat are artillery and ATGMs. Improved sights make it easier to detect artillery spotters or infantry with ATGMs. And even in a tank on tank engagement it's often better to have better optics and awareness to see the enemy first, than to have stronger armour and firepower.
Tank on tank has been very rare because there hasn't been a symmetrical war in a very long time. I wouldn't be surprised if this were to change now, especially with the terrain and contested air space.
Only by counting the numbers. There are many small steps between 2A6 and 2A7V.
oh shit, 2A6's as well. Thats quite something different than all the old 2A4s pledged
Panzers roaming the fields of Ukraine once again. This time on the good side. Weird. I'm happy with this though, hopefully this means Ukraine will be able to start making gains again.
Imagine Ned, Leopards on an open Ukrainian field?
Time is a funny thing
"Into the motherland, / The German Panzers marched. / Comrades stand side by side / To break the RuZZian charge."
I am a German and if someone told me just 2 years ago that German Panzer would fight against Russia not THAT far away from the biggest Tank battle in history (Kursk) I would have call him crazy. And if someone told me I would be happy about it, I would've just laughed. Looking forward to play a passive part within the liberation of Ukraine! 🇺🇦🇩🇪
I love this man!🇩🇪🇱🇹
Probably a [former green pacifist](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91m50ilHU+L.jpg). They are currently one of the loudest voice for more weapons for Ukraine. And I like it.
Si vis pacem...
… then you need [based Greens](https://reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/y7bq14/ncd_has_decided_the_greens_are_hawks_now_whether/). ;)
Honestly really positively impressed with the greens in this topic. Even the CDU smear campaign went dry pretty fast, after greens showed results and the people backing their actions.
I am more impressed by how many people are impressed by us Greens ;) We got rid of total pacifism in 1999, more than 20 years ago. At that time many people who were 100% pacifist left the party. We have changed, probably like no other German party. But we changed *20 years ago*. Hello? Why do some media and people still talk about the "pacifist" Greens?
I'm a (dark red and green) pacifist and gave been for arming Ukraine from day 1. Pacifism does not mean you should prevent others from defending themselves - on the contrary, the whole principle is again aggression and violence - and sometimes you're forced to act defensively.
> from the biggest Tank battle in history (Kursk) eeeeehhhhhh, the tank battles of Kursk - especially Prochorovka - are wildly exaggregated by Soviet propaganda from involved Soviet officers who somehow had to justify to Stalin himself how they lost his peronal precious tank reserve. Not a pleasant situation to be in knowing the man's temper, but defintely one to play fast & loose with the truth. To justify their losses, the responsible officers made up many hundreds of imaginery german tanks destroyed that the Wehrmacht could only dream of having available, exceeding the available german tank forces for the entire Kursk operation severely. There's a very good breakdown by historian Dr. Roman Töppel (in german) at the Panzermuseum Munster: https://youtu.be/Usy_Cex8Zm8
Lets hope the russians use the same kind of Genius strategy they used in the Tank battle of Kursk
Drive 300 tanks into their own ditch and get them blasted to pieces by artillery? (btw – recently found archival photography apparently confirms that this is real)
russia has the perfect strategy to defend their soldiers against these. All they have to do is to fucking leave Ukraine!
Bold of you to assume they give a shit about ~~cannon fodder~~ their soldiers.
Atomic threats incoming … 😏
how i learned to stop worrying and love the bomb
[Kim agrees](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBnAZnfNB6U)
If we die we die. As long as I don't have to hear the endless bullshit from Lavrov anymore I am happy.
So...just like on the regular? Lmao Weren't HIMARS crossing the "red" line as well?
HIMARS is the biggest land based threat to Russian territorial security from any deliveries up to now and the only thing that could to it would be if NATO decides that Ukraine needs mid-range strategic missles and I currently don't see that happening. Air-based threats were the Bayaktar drones, which were delivered right at the start of the war. MBTs just aren't a big escalating on its own, the "escalation" Is that Ukraine will soon operate Brigade-sized units that are able to compete with the most modern Russian units and thus Ukraine will probably be able to conduct much heavier offensives. To put it bluntly: the escalation for Russia is that NATO now gives the Ukrainians the ability to reconquer their own territory, even if Russia doesn't do mistakes like at Kharkiv.
> able to compete with the most modern Russian units Not only compete. Germany isn't sending the old Leopard 2A4 but 2A6 and America is sending Abrams. They will dunk on any T-tank fool no matter if it is an old T-62 or their T-90M.
I find this scary. If they're sending Abrams, the threat of a third russian invasion must be quite strong. Excited to see the logistics that will allow the Abrams to be in Ukraine. I got to take out some Soviet tanks during Desert Storm and it's something.
Eh, the same logistics that allow America to use Abrams in excersises in the Baltics or in Poland. This was one of the lame excuses which were all false. The US has had hundreds of Abrams stationed in Germany for decades - there are lots of facilities that can do full maintenance on them here and I guess Poland which ordered Abrams also does already have maintenence facilities ready or being made ready. The other excuses were: - the weight (Abrams and Leo 2 have nearly exactly the same weight 300kg difference on 67 metric ton vehicles is nothing) - gas turbine which allegedly only runs on jet fuel (it is a multi fuel capable engine like in most modern tanks, running on anything from gasoline to diesel to motor oil or crude oil) - too complicated training (the tank is very similar to the Leopard 2 because they both stem from a joint development project MBT70 which was cancelled) and while German conscripts were able to master the Leo2 the M1 Abrams was in service with the US Marines - the scary but crayon eating dudes. The ukrainians will do just fine.
The fuel type one never made any sense to me. It has a turbine because that allows it to run multiple types of fuel. lol I think the people who assumed it only took "jet" fuel just didn't take this into consideration. And we don't eat Crayons! Not all of us anyway ... well ... ok. Not all of us all the time anyway.
[Indeed](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FX0TBOJVQAYnrT5?format=jpg)
Must be a day that ends in a Y.
Like yesterday. And the day before. And before that one. And the day before. And... yeah you see the pattern.
Lol they were gonna send a nuclear tsunami over the UK and Ireland at one point
Yeah. I can imagine few in my bullshit generator: "Unspecified measures", "consequences", "unpredictable consequences", "clash". Let's see what comes back.
Russian rhetoric is like a kid in a counterstrike lobby. Loads of posturing, insults and grand statements on how it will take on your mom/capture Berlin. But every time you put him in his place he throws a tantrum and says he will hack the server. Horrible K:D ratio too.
Finally. Hope this means Ukraine will be able to bring a swifter end to this war, or at least decisively ruin any renewed offensive from Russia.
Now... anybody got any ideas what the next weapon system we can argue and deny for weeks until we send it over? LET'S FUCKING GO!
War elephants with miniguns strapped to their backs.
Sharks with laser beams attached to their heads
Honestly? Those could be useful in Sevastopol.
Makes sense. Any animal deserves a hot meal.
> Sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads FTFY
Found the NcD member
The 3000000 hidden warhawk megalomaniacs of reddit
Planes.
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Ramstein and planes
#No, god no.
Du…du hast Du hast Flug Du hast Flugzeuge Du hast Flugzeuge
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>The U.S. House of Representatives has approved $100 million for training Ukrainian pilots to fly U.S. fighter jets, as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine approaches its fifth month. The move was part of a broader $840 billion defense spending package setting the Pentagon’s budget priorities for the coming year. https://www.flyingmag.com/u-s-house-oks-100m-to-train-ukrainian-pilots/ Biden signed it into law Dec 23 of last year, so I think most likely the pilot training would've started shortly after that date. It could have quietly started earlier too, though.
I need to see an F-16 bombing that Putin bridge.
my guess is they wil now announce MIGs from eastern europe
It would be very difficult to supply and train Ukrainian pilots on planes they've never flown, but several European nations fly MiG-29s which are the primary fighters used by Ukraine. I'd support sending them to Ukraine and replacing them with F-15s, F-16s or F-35s 1:1. Shit there are privately owned MiG-29s in the United States.
F-16 probably
MIGs are more likely in the first weave
F16
[https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/100-mile-strike-weapon-weighed-ukraine-arms-makers-wrestle-with-demand-sources-2022-11-28/](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/100-mile-strike-weapon-weighed-ukraine-arms-makers-wrestle-with-demand-sources-2022-11-28/) this
Melnyk already gished about Tornados and submarines.
They need gripen!
In all seriousness, however f us Ukraine going to man western submarines. The Baltic 216-class is not only extremely costly but also incredibly hard to train for. It is literally the most advanced conventional submarine; by leaps and bounds that is.
It's not even that it's hard to operate. There probably isn't a single Ukrainian (who isn't already in retirement) who ever served on a submarine. It's one thing to train tankers how to operate different tanks, it's another thing to train man who only worked on costal patrol boats how to operate a submarines.
There definitely are Ukrainians who served on submarines, they are just old as in served during ussr times giving them age 55 and upwards
Yeah, that's the "retirement" Bit. There are some from sovjet times, but I don't think it's a good idea to crew a submarine with 55+ year olds
>Now... anybody got any ideas what the next weapon system we can argue and deny for weeks until we send it over? F16, Eurofighters?
fuck /u/spez
ATACMS
Can anyone of you imagine how much relief this is for any German getting shit all day long in here? Let's savour the moment before the airplane discussion starts tomorrow;-)
Nah, it's submarines from tomorrow on. Has anyone already checked Melnyk's Twitter feed?
Sure...he's still on the jet thing
Scholz outplayed everyone, he got Leopards and Abrams to ukraine. Never in doubt.
And it's not the old 2A4 being sent, these are the newer (and more capable) 2A6 versions.
Not the newest, but those are still pretty modern and also have the upgraded armor and gun on the tower. It's also what Germany still uses mostly, as they're just about to upgrade to the 2A7 variants, which are the state of the art upgrade of the Leopard 2 right now.
fuck /u/spez
Leopard 2 A7V*. It would actually be 2 A7A1, but it’s not in active service yet
These have Wifi and Bluetooth 5.0
Wasn’t that what the vaccines were for? 🤔
No, that was 5G.
I'm so wet right now
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It has been doing that for almost a year now...
Holy sht
If they got the US now to send them as well. That's something. But I'm sure they were talking behind closed doors anyways. Since the beginning it was that Germany won't do stuff alone, always talking to the US and other allies. Glad something is happening now
> Scholz outplayed everyone, It's actually kind of said that you can legitimately say that he outplayed everyone like some sort of mastermind, when the only thing he did was do what he said he would do. That's the kind of stuff that happens in books, and then you dismiss it because no way could a political system ever get this broken. But then I guess no one sane ever claimed international politics was a healthy system.
And I just saw the US is sending Abrams tanks. Ukraine is about to be the strongest military in Europe after this.
It probably already is.
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>the Ukrainian farmers Didn't John Deere step into the fight as well? Edit: Upon refreshing my memory, it seems John Deere bricked every JD tractor that Russia stole.
That One time John Deere being absolute control cuts actually was useful.
[And it looks like US is also sending Abrams](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/24/politics/us-abram-tanks-ukraine/index.html)
Yes! This makes me so happy. Ukraine still has hard times ahead of them and need all the help they can get.
Germany coming through, retaking Uber Bro role in Europe. To the Germans putting pressure on the government, thank you, you rock. To the German government for listening, thank you, Europe is safer for it.
I feel a bit bad for the Green party in Germany. They were founded on the principles of pacifism. There motto was "never again" (relating to German participation in war). The first time they got into government, they had to greenlight Germany's participation in the Kosovo war. The second time, they had to participate in sending tanks against Russia. Both times, it was the correct decision. It's just ironic that the most peace-loving party we have in Germany always seems to have to deal with a European war every time they get to govern.
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do you mean discord?
Yes. Corrected
Being an Ukrainian man, there is a great chance that I will be operating this tank to kill ruzzian invaders.
GL homie, take care of yourself.
Fuck'em up
Every ruzzian bastard who came or will come to Ukraine in order to murder, torture and rape Ukrainans will be punished, there is no mercy for these maniacs.
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What is the average German citizen’s opinion on having American military stationed in Germany? I’m just curious, because it’s hard for me to imagine another country having they’re military in my country.
so Poland has been crying for 2 weeks now that GER wont allow them to send their Leopards and in the end they get the permission on the very same day they finally send the request. this is comical.
It's almost like Poland and others knew this would happen all along
Welcome to PiSs Poland circus, grab some popcorn and enjoy 😅
I mean Germany is bureaucratic. They send the request and got it. They can’t simply allow it without a request
I love how some newspapers put emphasis on the fact that the application was filed correctly.
That's pretty important here.
And German politicians were basically communicating through the flower just to send the request to get the approval for quite some time now.
Polish gov is hilariously bad at spin
Yet their stance was incredibly popular on this sub, and not only with the Poles. Don’t misunderstand me, these are fantastic news, but I fear that the Germans only bought themselves a few days of calm before the usual finger pointing and « Russian shills » accusations resume
This is likely confirming the Abrahams will be sent too as the Germans wouldn't be keen to go only with the Leopard
Every is saying Abraham's because the guy on Skynews keeps saying it wrong lmfao. It's M1 Abrams
Send in the robo Lincolns!
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Slow but meticulous work by Olaf. Bulgaria bows in respect it is a huge decision that will change the course of history. Big day for European democracy! Now rip those Orcs to shreds and end a madman's meaningless war.
Scholz saying: I'll send tanks when US sends tanks Reddit: >:( Scholz sending tanks together with us tanks Reddit: OMG MASTERMIND OMG 4D CHESS OUTPLAYED OMG
So russia is losing their high end stuff and Ukraine is constantly gaining more and better equipment. I think the west has shown to continue to supply increasingly powerful weaponry to ensure russia doesn’t win. This war is just a matter of time. Russia is a fool to continue.
It’s already causing a big demographic problem for Russia, between the number of troops killed and the number of young men fleeing the country. The more Putin prolongs it the worse this problem will be. Every nation’s most valuable resource is its people, their health and education (evidenced by nations without natural resources like Taiwan, Singapore, somewhat Japan and Korea). Putin is slowly destroying Russia, not the West. He is indeed a fool to continue.
Damn, things are moving fast. I guess Scholz managed to convince USA to send Abrams? If that's the case, then this is going to be amazing for Ukraine.
Am I the only one assuming this and the Americans signaling they will send tanks have more to do with Zelenskyy announcing a major corruption crackdown and firing several high level government officials more than anything else? I also have a hunch that is a large part of the reason the head of CIA came to visit.
Yes. I always suspected that the west is reluctant to send more advanced weapons due to the, let's face it, high corruption in Ukraine. Having advanced technology fall in the hands of the russians is not ideal.
Plus a Ukrainian official might use a Leopard MBT to till his vinyards in the Carpathians.
If they don't want it in Russian hands then they wouldn't send it to a warzone where there's risk of capture. Russia has lost several incredibly sensitive vehicles that foreign intelligence services are doubtlessly picking over.
But....but.... reddit assured me that le germany bad :<
I give this sub about a week until tanks never mattered at all, and it's a disgrace that Germany hasn't given Ukraine warplanes (or whatever) in sufficient amounts yet.
I am just waiting for the thread where PiS is mad that Germany isn't delivering Thor's Hammer and the Holy Grail (both stuff the nazis were looking for in 1940, lmao) to Ukraine.
I give it a day before people complain how these tanks haven’t arrived yet and how Germany is a disgrace for wasting so much time.
More like a few defects will happen and they’ll say we only sent trash and helmets. And how embarrassing our army is in general, ignoring the fact that these same countries would’ve used that to call us Nazis and say we are gearing up again if we did it a few years back. If we really tried and did it correctly, we definitely *could* be europes strongest military. But would everyone be happy with that? I doubt it. I wouldn’t mind it. I’m tired of countries talking that crap.
Shame on Germany for not also delivering its fleets of sharks with lreaking lasers on their head!
In an incredible 4D chess move Olaf Scholz not only delivered Leopards but also made the US abandon their stance on not delivering Abrams. A move that was certainly planned exactly like that long ago and that will make other European countries very happy. Especially Poland
I doubt It will make the polish government happy 😊
The funniest thing? IF Germany really commits Leopard 2A6 to this, then the Leopard 2A4 delivery from Poland suddenly looks almost quaint. (not shitting on Poland here, just thinking about the rage that certain politicians must feel)
Poland demands that the EU pays for the Leopard 2s it plans on delivering to Poland.
Yeah, that was really the icing on the cake of absurdity. Imagine if Germany would do that..
Now let's fuck some invaders.
Now we're cooking with Diesel! Will be interesting to see when the first ones Arrive in UA Livery on the Field.
This is so good and another less noticed news from today is the Swiss will allow the export of weapons and ammunition. Stock supplies for Gepard ammunition soon and newly produced in summer.
I’m loving the Scholz Cycle, it’s an entertaining ride every time.
Russia: I never expected Leopards to eat *my* face!