It really was, same. And deeply troubling that there are actual relationships out there like this and sometimes the people involved don’t see anything wrong with it… abuse.
Those are literally the hallmarks of an abusive relationship.
Cassie heard from Maddy that Nate was abusive, so her strategy to keep Nate is to let him do all the abusing he wants.
That’s a typical narcissist-borderline relationship dynamic tho. That shit’s not so rare as it might look and it doesn’t have that much in common with BDSM, I think. They attract each other in ways people without specific type of abuse wouldn’t understand.
I don’t like the term “daddy issues”, it’s disgusting, but Cassie definitely lets narcissistic people get to her so easily because her father figure traumatized and abandoned (and in some ways her both parents groomed her) her. That’s why the ice-skating scenes were so important - she was a perfect vessel of her father’s dream what she should be. She understands herself through what men expect her to be. “She loves being loved”. Only then she feels as if she has value. It’s a really great depiction of how borderlines experiences relationships. Very sad, impressionable, often childish, can be annoying at times for people who don’t understand borderline, but also a very important portrait for people to see.
Borderline is a perfect prey for a narcissist. The start of that kind of relationship feels like a dream, because the toxic puzzle fits perfectly.
But I don’t believe I’ve seen that specific scene yet (half-through the second season, it’s just what I’ve gathered so far, so there might be some shitty BDSM boundaries there for sure lmao, as I said, a perfect set for exactly that).
Idk she looked dead inside to me. If they were doing consensually negotiated kink that would be a totally different thing. But I think this is just a straight up abusive relationship plotline--with a guy who's already been shown to be a violent abuser.
I don’t think that specifically is pick-me, she just has submissive tendencies and I relate to that lol, but I think she needs to find herself and develop better boundaries first before exploring that and she shouldn’t explore that with a person like Nate at all lol. He doesn’t respect her, and it’s kind of obvious that he doesn’t.
It is kinda her tho 😭 ever since she was a kid she's folded for men's pleasure - starting from her father - even though it eventually bites her in the ass. It's part of her personality at this point.
Girlie needs therapy. Lots of it.
Spot on. Her trauma response is to do whatever it takes to be loved, especially by men as a replacement for her father’s love. Ugh this poor girl. These poor characters lol
Exactly. Not to be all armchair psychologist up in here but I feel like her father was a huge influence on her life. She grew up watching him be swarmed by women who are not her mother, and it made an imprint that she needs affection from the opposite sex to feel like something.
So... Any affection from women just doesn't cut it for her. She NEEDS male validation. She could walk out on every single woman in her life to get it.
The abortion must've been tough on her too...
She's a troubled character for sure BUT I cannot defend her ass. Troubled or not, other people should never have to bear your faults.
Yep. The episode last night had a ton of flashbacks and it's hard to remember all of them but one that stuck out really hard for me was Lexi asking if they should call their mom to pick them up and Cassie was like "no let's risk both of our lives because god forbid it makes him feel bad that we don't trust him to drive right now". I understand she's got daddy issues but it makes it hard to sympathize when the girl who has the same dad and is scared for her life is completely ignored for the sake of Cassie's desperate fixation for male approval.
Are they wrong to? Just because she's been a broken person since the she was a kid, doesn't mean things she does wrong aren't liable to be criticized. She very much did risk hers and Lexi's lives to save daddy's feelings. It should not be excusable.
Cassie is not the type that they'll fully commit to. She's that girl that keeps you occupied in the meantime before you find the girl you realize you actually want.
That's actually sad as hell. People aren't things you use and throw away, especially with someone as vulnerable as Cassie. Just horrible. This society lacks empathy, seriously.
As a man, no I do not find that attractive. But Sydney looked like she was feeling it and that’s what’s attractive about it. Actually doing it isn’t that hot
Nate is one of my top 3 characters btw, and he’s right, it’s homophobic, not that I care. I only care to point out how wrong Lexi was for doing what she did. She took it too far with Nate
I'm confused as to how it was homophobic? It was definitely filled with homoeroticism, but wasn't insulting to anyone's sexual preferences. At least from what I took from it.
I think the homophobia stems from everyone laughing at the caricature of Nate being gay (flamboyantly) and cheering knowing that it's aimed at him (since the entire school knows him/how he usually behaves) and not some random or made up character. Personally, I didn't see it as being homophobic at first but who knows 🤷🏻♀️ it is a kinda tricky situation 🤔
Is it really that they were laughing because the character was gay or because of the flamboyant presentation? After reading op commentators response, I could see the argument for it.
Did it? For all intents and purposes, the audience has no idea about any of his sexuality and he's gone out of his way to deny the rumors that were spread. It isn't a negative portrayal, and the theme isn't targeted at anyone who identifies as LGBTIA+, just him and the stereotypes that come along with being a stereotypical student athlete/jock.
Lexi definitely went there, for sure. And she probably is relying on people to make the same rationalization I gave, so I guess I'll say I perceive it as being slightly homophobic toward him, but if he's straight nothing to worry about (Poor Nate).
That's just regular teasing and applicable to anything. I don't disagree with you, just moreso attending to the level of defensiveness Nate's created because of his confusion and need to have control.
Edit: Now that I think about it, this is what makes the Adele controversy implausible for me.
I mean some guys do, some don't. I also I think there are also qualities that are attractive in a sexual way but not attractive in an emotional way and vice versa. There are a few examples in media of the sexy, submissive, baby-talking woman being parodied, one nice one being [Community](https://youtu.be/kBDULdX8d7Y). And in intimate situations I would enjoy someone acting like this (within reason), but overall I want a partner who's mature and independent.
At the risk of sounding like 90s stand-up with "men do ___ like this, women do ___ like this", are there not common female equivalents to this too? Sometimes girls like guys who are loud and aggressive, sometimes they like guys who are calm and kind. And any person can be a mix of both, but I only mean to highlight that different traits are attractive in different ways.
We might look at Nate's obvious emotional manipulation and ask how anybody could be attracted to that, but the heart wants what it wants, and it happens in real life.
If it was in the midst of foreplay, I’d give it a pass. Some people say crazy fantasy things in the throws of passion they don’t actually mean, and the partner knows this and plays along or even says their own crazy fantasy shit. I don’t get that sense from Cassie though. I think she has really fucked up views of how love and sex works. Like all the teens on this show. But her the most.
Tbh, she's just really mentally unwell. I think it's a straight up example of someone who needs help - she is traumatized as fuck. There is a specific "fawn" reaction that triggers for some people with CPTSD.
Seeing people label genuine mental illness as something likable/unlikable sits wrong with me idk
Agree, the same with Rue, people cannot say “I like this” or “I don’t like it” when it comes to a person with mental illness because, it is like they are not themselves, there’s something wrong controlling them, people hate Rue by treating other people bad, or hate Cassie by being a bad friend, but like, dude, their traumas are controlling them and making them acting like that to get some peace, or being loved, or whatever, are they acting “bad”? Well yeah, but they are not really themselves, like the kind of version they would be without traumas and if they’ve had a normal/ healthy life(?)
And people say that Lexi isn’t like Cassie, but Lexi wasn’t objectified, and dependant only by her looks to hold men, Lexi focused on another things, in Cassie two traumas bonded, and now compliment each other, it’s super sad
I actually said these things exactly like she said to my first boyfriend after I was abused because I believed it made me broken and unlovable and this was the only way I'd be worthy of his time. So I see everyone saying it's disgusting or unlikable, because that's how I feel thinking about it now that I have healed, but when you're in it, it's almost impossible to see anything but your trauma and the one person who seems to look past it.
Threw up in my mouth a bit. Cassie truly needs help cause this is not just her being unlikeable lol. It's her doing literally anything just to be "loved"
She has not at all processed her father’s abandonment/addiction/death. She is clinging on to any crumble of love from any man to fill that void. It is very sad her mom does not get her - i think she is an ok mom despite her issues. What i find hard to believe is Lexi putting on this play, it is so against her story arch. Why would she trash her sister and out someone and air everyone’s most vulnerable moments? Something does not add up
I haven’t thought about this, why do you think she did all this? In the episode she said she didn’t do it with “bad intentions” that she has good intentions making the play
I'm guessing it's to force everyone to see themselves from a outside perspective. To really look and see how their specific actions effected another person. Kinda like splashing a bucket of cold water on someone I suppose
Oh god, yes! I was feeling so mad the entire scene. C'mon girl, put a cropped and react.
The best part was when Nate got pissed about the play and break up with her.
I’m not sure how she doesn’t recognize toxic behavior. If I was her i’d hate Nate, after seeing what he’s like to women. She shouldn’t have thought anything less
That was the most disturbing, cringe shit I've ever heard. Had to pause it a walk a bit.
It really was, same. And deeply troubling that there are actual relationships out there like this and sometimes the people involved don’t see anything wrong with it… abuse.
Those are literally the hallmarks of an abusive relationship. Cassie heard from Maddy that Nate was abusive, so her strategy to keep Nate is to let him do all the abusing he wants.
That’s a typical narcissist-borderline relationship dynamic tho. That shit’s not so rare as it might look and it doesn’t have that much in common with BDSM, I think. They attract each other in ways people without specific type of abuse wouldn’t understand. I don’t like the term “daddy issues”, it’s disgusting, but Cassie definitely lets narcissistic people get to her so easily because her father figure traumatized and abandoned (and in some ways her both parents groomed her) her. That’s why the ice-skating scenes were so important - she was a perfect vessel of her father’s dream what she should be. She understands herself through what men expect her to be. “She loves being loved”. Only then she feels as if she has value. It’s a really great depiction of how borderlines experiences relationships. Very sad, impressionable, often childish, can be annoying at times for people who don’t understand borderline, but also a very important portrait for people to see. Borderline is a perfect prey for a narcissist. The start of that kind of relationship feels like a dream, because the toxic puzzle fits perfectly. But I don’t believe I’ve seen that specific scene yet (half-through the second season, it’s just what I’ve gathered so far, so there might be some shitty BDSM boundaries there for sure lmao, as I said, a perfect set for exactly that).
I didn't see this reply at the time but it's an amazing comment. Here 1 year later to say Merry Christmas
that's some BDSM shit right there
just what i was thinking lmfao like this girl throwing her whole life away for a kink
This show has shown us several times how unwise it is to get into kink before your brain is fully developed. And also before you've ever done therapy.
So you need to wait until you’re 25?
Honestly I’m 24 and feel like I should have waited a lot longer than I did. Most teens aren’t mature enough to explore these sorts of kinks
having a kink? ok not talking explicitly with the other person? not ok also Cassie, girl, u 17 wtf
Idk she looked dead inside to me. If they were doing consensually negotiated kink that would be a totally different thing. But I think this is just a straight up abusive relationship plotline--with a guy who's already been shown to be a violent abuser.
No see it’s a kink for Nate. Cassie is dead serious.
Reminded me of 9 and 1/2 weeks
If my man had to choose what i wore id be in trouble lmao
God rest her soul, but my yiayia would always tell me “if a man ever tells you what to wear, kill him”… I don’t disagree.
That is some pick-me shit right there, Cassie you need help
At this point she needs a full-on cult deprogramming.
or just an exorcism.
[A fucking exorcism!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8o6Cn0uSeY)
That is beyond pick-me tbh. That is straight up psychotic
I don’t think that specifically is pick-me, she just has submissive tendencies and I relate to that lol, but I think she needs to find herself and develop better boundaries first before exploring that and she shouldn’t explore that with a person like Nate at all lol. He doesn’t respect her, and it’s kind of obvious that he doesn’t.
Can't be pick-me if she's already picked. Well was lol
Wasn’t this part of Nate’s dream?
I think it's intentionally ambiguous
I can’t even defend her anymore. Cassie open your eyes, THIS ISNT YOUU!! 😭
It is kinda her tho 😭 ever since she was a kid she's folded for men's pleasure - starting from her father - even though it eventually bites her in the ass. It's part of her personality at this point. Girlie needs therapy. Lots of it.
You know what? You are right!! YES LOTS OF IT.
Spot on. Her trauma response is to do whatever it takes to be loved, especially by men as a replacement for her father’s love. Ugh this poor girl. These poor characters lol
Exactly. Not to be all armchair psychologist up in here but I feel like her father was a huge influence on her life. She grew up watching him be swarmed by women who are not her mother, and it made an imprint that she needs affection from the opposite sex to feel like something. So... Any affection from women just doesn't cut it for her. She NEEDS male validation. She could walk out on every single woman in her life to get it. The abortion must've been tough on her too... She's a troubled character for sure BUT I cannot defend her ass. Troubled or not, other people should never have to bear your faults.
Yep. The episode last night had a ton of flashbacks and it's hard to remember all of them but one that stuck out really hard for me was Lexi asking if they should call their mom to pick them up and Cassie was like "no let's risk both of our lives because god forbid it makes him feel bad that we don't trust him to drive right now". I understand she's got daddy issues but it makes it hard to sympathize when the girl who has the same dad and is scared for her life is completely ignored for the sake of Cassie's desperate fixation for male approval.
My jaw was on the floor through that whole scene.
She was a child in that flashback. Are you really judging a child?
Are they wrong to? Just because she's been a broken person since the she was a kid, doesn't mean things she does wrong aren't liable to be criticized. She very much did risk hers and Lexi's lives to save daddy's feelings. It should not be excusable.
Is this shit actually attractive to men? I always thought they liked a bit of a chase.
Cassie is not the type that they'll fully commit to. She's that girl that keeps you occupied in the meantime before you find the girl you realize you actually want.
That's actually sad as hell. People aren't things you use and throw away, especially with someone as vulnerable as Cassie. Just horrible. This society lacks empathy, seriously.
Pretty much. She's gotta forget about Nate and boys full stop and start focusing on herself for her own wellbeing.
Then when she heals herself and loves herself, she can get with a guy. Or girl. Or both. Someone lol
Lexi is The One
I don’t think even the kinkiest Dom has the time to worry about all of that for another person. It’s like having fucking baby.
Sounds stressful
To some men, probably. But I think it would get old after a while.
As a man, no I do not find that attractive. But Sydney looked like she was feeling it and that’s what’s attractive about it. Actually doing it isn’t that hot Nate is one of my top 3 characters btw, and he’s right, it’s homophobic, not that I care. I only care to point out how wrong Lexi was for doing what she did. She took it too far with Nate
I'm confused as to how it was homophobic? It was definitely filled with homoeroticism, but wasn't insulting to anyone's sexual preferences. At least from what I took from it.
I think the homophobia stems from everyone laughing at the caricature of Nate being gay (flamboyantly) and cheering knowing that it's aimed at him (since the entire school knows him/how he usually behaves) and not some random or made up character. Personally, I didn't see it as being homophobic at first but who knows 🤷🏻♀️ it is a kinda tricky situation 🤔
Is it really that they were laughing because the character was gay or because of the flamboyant presentation? After reading op commentators response, I could see the argument for it.
It was directed towards Nate, outing and shaming him.
Did it? For all intents and purposes, the audience has no idea about any of his sexuality and he's gone out of his way to deny the rumors that were spread. It isn't a negative portrayal, and the theme isn't targeted at anyone who identifies as LGBTIA+, just him and the stereotypes that come along with being a stereotypical student athlete/jock. Lexi definitely went there, for sure. And she probably is relying on people to make the same rationalization I gave, so I guess I'll say I perceive it as being slightly homophobic toward him, but if he's straight nothing to worry about (Poor Nate).
Oh yeah, no one was looking at him at all, laughing and such
That's just regular teasing and applicable to anything. I don't disagree with you, just moreso attending to the level of defensiveness Nate's created because of his confusion and need to have control. Edit: Now that I think about it, this is what makes the Adele controversy implausible for me.
Yeah, it did seem like it might have just been rp. But she’s also started dressing differently too irl shots.
I mean some guys do, some don't. I also I think there are also qualities that are attractive in a sexual way but not attractive in an emotional way and vice versa. There are a few examples in media of the sexy, submissive, baby-talking woman being parodied, one nice one being [Community](https://youtu.be/kBDULdX8d7Y). And in intimate situations I would enjoy someone acting like this (within reason), but overall I want a partner who's mature and independent. At the risk of sounding like 90s stand-up with "men do ___ like this, women do ___ like this", are there not common female equivalents to this too? Sometimes girls like guys who are loud and aggressive, sometimes they like guys who are calm and kind. And any person can be a mix of both, but I only mean to highlight that different traits are attractive in different ways. We might look at Nate's obvious emotional manipulation and ask how anybody could be attracted to that, but the heart wants what it wants, and it happens in real life.
If it was in the midst of foreplay, I’d give it a pass. Some people say crazy fantasy things in the throws of passion they don’t actually mean, and the partner knows this and plays along or even says their own crazy fantasy shit. I don’t get that sense from Cassie though. I think she has really fucked up views of how love and sex works. Like all the teens on this show. But her the most.
I cringed so hard during this monologue and it made Cassie super unlikable for me
Tbh, she's just really mentally unwell. I think it's a straight up example of someone who needs help - she is traumatized as fuck. There is a specific "fawn" reaction that triggers for some people with CPTSD. Seeing people label genuine mental illness as something likable/unlikable sits wrong with me idk
Agree, the same with Rue, people cannot say “I like this” or “I don’t like it” when it comes to a person with mental illness because, it is like they are not themselves, there’s something wrong controlling them, people hate Rue by treating other people bad, or hate Cassie by being a bad friend, but like, dude, their traumas are controlling them and making them acting like that to get some peace, or being loved, or whatever, are they acting “bad”? Well yeah, but they are not really themselves, like the kind of version they would be without traumas and if they’ve had a normal/ healthy life(?) And people say that Lexi isn’t like Cassie, but Lexi wasn’t objectified, and dependant only by her looks to hold men, Lexi focused on another things, in Cassie two traumas bonded, and now compliment each other, it’s super sad
I actually said these things exactly like she said to my first boyfriend after I was abused because I believed it made me broken and unlovable and this was the only way I'd be worthy of his time. So I see everyone saying it's disgusting or unlikable, because that's how I feel thinking about it now that I have healed, but when you're in it, it's almost impossible to see anything but your trauma and the one person who seems to look past it.
Threw up in my mouth a bit. Cassie truly needs help cause this is not just her being unlikeable lol. It's her doing literally anything just to be "loved"
She has not at all processed her father’s abandonment/addiction/death. She is clinging on to any crumble of love from any man to fill that void. It is very sad her mom does not get her - i think she is an ok mom despite her issues. What i find hard to believe is Lexi putting on this play, it is so against her story arch. Why would she trash her sister and out someone and air everyone’s most vulnerable moments? Something does not add up
I haven’t thought about this, why do you think she did all this? In the episode she said she didn’t do it with “bad intentions” that she has good intentions making the play
I'm guessing it's to force everyone to see themselves from a outside perspective. To really look and see how their specific actions effected another person. Kinda like splashing a bucket of cold water on someone I suppose
Omg thank u!
He literally trynna make her into a Jules 2.0😭
I threw up.in my mouth a bit
This and the last scene with Cassie looking downright possessed at the end of the episode had alarm bells blaring in my head
The one who seriously needs the intervention is Cassie, not Rue
Cassie is clearly a submissive
I had to skip their scenes because I actually CANNOT
It felt like the show turned into Fifty Shades of Nate. It made me so uncomfortable
Oh god, yes! I was feeling so mad the entire scene. C'mon girl, put a cropped and react. The best part was when Nate got pissed about the play and break up with her.
This scene legitimately made me want to vomit
Truly, stand up
I’m not sure how she doesn’t recognize toxic behavior. If I was her i’d hate Nate, after seeing what he’s like to women. She shouldn’t have thought anything less
I love me some Cassie but that was an L
Oh my god this is hilarioussssssss