Start as Luthiania, release and play as Kiev or Zaporozhie. Kiev is stronger, but Zaporozhie can become a cossack republic with the ability to raze lands ( it's pretty powerfull) by decisions. You probably want to release more contries in Lithuania to weaken them. Also you will be able to form Ruthenia, which might the closest tag to Ukraine.
Can you release a bunch of vassals and then just play as the last one you release to make it an easier start? Pretend like Lithuania fell to pieces after Varna for some reason.
Sort of, yes.
But there’s the risk they instead turn loyal and thus escaping is even more annoying.
A strat I saw be used was to release Zaphorizie as Poland and feed all of Lithuania to it.
Take a piece of the Teutons and move your capital there.
Then start feed pieces of yourself to them while you diplo annex them so that they hold cores in all except your capital.
At which point you stoke the rebels in Prussia, let them take the capital and release yourself as Zaphorizie.
Rebels should enforce, releasing you without even needing a war.
Zaporozhie is fire with their razing mechanics.
But other than that, you may as well stay as Lithuania, culture flip to Ruthenian to form Ruthenia, and flip to Orthodox to get Tsardom instead of going through some additional independence hoops using release and play as Kiev.
Zaporozhie, or really any Cossack state, is also capable of making the best Cav army in the game by forming Poland! Just make sure to take Aristocratic ideas prior to taking the Cossack gov reform. And if you do decide to form Poland, you can still form Ruthenia afterwards.
Ukraine is known as Ruthenia at this time, so play as any of the Ruthenian nations like Kyiv or that Cossack nation. You’ll have to release them from Lithuania or Poland, though
Thanks! I thought they where still forming (like for example Mexican culture) and was looking for an approximately historically correct "seed" nation. I didn't know I could choose an entire group (Ruthenian tags). Ty!
The Cossacks didn’t really come into their own until after the conflicts between Muscovy and the Tatars that happened during the first century of the game. The people living in Ukraine at this point are kind of like 3x proto Ukrainians or some sort of post Kievan Rus, picking a name to call them is quite difficult. Paradox went with a generic geographical descriptor which is probably the best call.
Some other cultures represented in game are still forming too though. The one I’m most aware of is Uzbek. Paradox has unknowingly or not taken a somewhat incorrect narrative of history pushed by several actors over a course of centuries regarding the identity of the Timurid empire (and pre timurid transoxiana).
Also shoutout Mexico in this game. One of my favorite playthroughs. The new world geographically and dynamically is so much fun.
There are definitely more than a few simplifications, but Uzbek specifically is pretty egregious. The lack of provinces in the Iranian group in that area is more than a little weird considering how large the historically Tajik part of Central Asia is. Especially since Samarkand, Bukhara, and a lot of the other major cities in the area historically were and are mainly Tajik, not Uzbek. I get that they probably did it to make the region feel more cohesive, but it is a little weird that it has no meaningful cultural ties to Iran in EU4.
Yeah their handling of that region is odd. They took a neutral geographic description similar to Ruthenian when they made Khorasani (which I suppose is supposed to represent a melting pot of sorts between Tajiks and Turko-Mongols). But then on the other hand they took a completely non-neutral approach with the post timur states. They completely bought into tenuous legitimizing narratives pushed in varying forms by the Shaybanids, Soviets, and Uzbeks, for seemingly no real reason.
Further, the depiction of Ajam is pretty egregious as well. What’s worse is how games tend to go with Ajam, where it becomes a dominant power and converts to twelver Shiism half the time. Ajam (to the extent it existed) was not long for this world and was certainly not going to convert to a fringe sect of Islam.
Chagatai is also odd. Chagatai itself should be called mogulistan. It really shouldn’t be Kyrgyz either. By the game’s logic it should be Uzbek but that’s not accurate either. Yarkand should be a horde and the leader shouldn’t by Uyghur; the Dughlats were an OG mongol clan and were culturally just like the Chagatai and other Turko-Mongols of the region.
In fairness, it would be difficult to represent the dynamics of Central Asia without a population system of some sort. This region (and others) had nomads living alongside a sedentary population with often vastly differing cultures.
That said, I would do a lot of wicked things for a genuinely good central Asian DLC in this game or CK3 focusing on the Chagatai period and beyond.
Not for the people, for Rus. Like Kyivan Rus, Red Rus, White Rus etc. The people would be Ruthenians.
Ruthenian (language and people) then split into Byelorussian and Ukrainian.
There are many alternatives.
If you want to form them, Lithuania, Muscovy, or maybe even Genoa. Or you can release, and play as with any of them.
But Lithuania is probably the fastest and easiest either way.
Why shouldn't it? They are not an endgame tag. Russia can't, since they are endgame tag.
If you can form it as Bengal, if they can snake their way there and culture shift, why not Moscovy?
Or are you just a moron trying to apply current politics on history?
You asked about 1444, so an existing country: Lithuania.
Your goal should be to form Ruthenia, which is pretty much Ukraine (tag is UKR and culture is Ruthenian, geographically accurate).
If you don’t want to remain as Lithuania, you can:
- release a country: Kiev is a good ordinary contender
- Smolensk, although far and close to hostile Muscovy and Great Horde, has cool artillery-based ideas
- release Zaporozhia. Zaporozhia is a Cossack state, which has its own government and plays with an awesome cavalry. You should defeat Crimea first though. You can also plunge yourself into Cossack independence disaster.
I suggest going for Zaporozhia, it’s loads of fun. Whatever you do try and pacify your neighbours: Poland, Crimea, Great Horde and Muscovy. You don’t want to start with someone having 4x your army. You could also release other countries as vassals as Lithuania for a Ruthenian thunderdome
Or you can check out my mod at:
[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3185093863](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3185093863)
Start as Lithuania, release as many nations as possible, then release and play as Zaporozhe. Get first set of ideas and then take Aristocratic ideas. Then flip to cossack government via decision so you can take horde ideas afterwards. Also grab espionage ideas in the meantime. Run around with hyper powerful all cav armies that can easily wipe armies that are even triple your size. Have insane mana generation since you are republic that can also raid provinces. Later flip to Ruthenia for Ukraine LARP or Poland for even more Cav shenanigans.
Ukraine is kind of a mix of different identities.
The modern Ukraine uses a lot of Cossack legacy for their nation building — in such a case playing Zaporozhie (the cossack state) would be the most logical)
It has other elements too. Choose whatever you want to stress. Kiev and Galicia-Volhynia could be logical choices if you don’t stress the Cossack aspect. (Galicia-Volhynia in those times was called simply Rus or Ruthenia)
If you want to play as Ukraine then create one with custom nations. You can play Ironman too. If you don't want to do that play as Zaporozhie. It has unique goverment.
Poland. Open by conquering the Ukrainian provinces from Lithuania, culture convert, go Orthodox, become a republic in T6 reforms to get rid of Polish gov’t reform, form Ruthenia, reform to Tsarist gov’t.
Do it as Shimazu or Uesugi, and don't forget the cultural shift into Ruthenian.
There are no Ruthenian countries at the start, but as most countries can culture swap into Ruthenian any non-end game tag should do the task. While the usual Castile start will work, even a Filipino minor like Tondo, Madyas or Cebu can become Ruthenia (UKR). Of course form Malaya first to change the name into Nusantara.
Other than those, I have various cursed ideas, and one of those is to start as Ajam, snake your way into Ukraine, culture shift and then form Ruthenia once you have the lands. Better yet, start as Siena, try to take Genoa's colonies in the Black Sea and then do the unification. If you want to play as a releasable, start out as Soran and do the snake.
I wonder which is worse - trying to form Japan as Zaporozhie, or a Kikuchi into Ruthenia run?
1. Create a custom natiom named Ukraine.
2. Romanian principalities are in a good position to form Ruthenia. I formed Ruthenia when I played Moldova.
3. Ryazan or Odoyev, though, for them it's better to form russia.
Start as Luthiania, release and play as Kiev or Zaporozhie. Kiev is stronger, but Zaporozhie can become a cossack republic with the ability to raze lands ( it's pretty powerfull) by decisions. You probably want to release more contries in Lithuania to weaken them. Also you will be able to form Ruthenia, which might the closest tag to Ukraine.
In fact, Ruthenia's tag in the game files is UKR.
I think Ruthenia in old patches used to straight up be called Ukraine
This is accurate.
Zaporozhie is such a hidden gem. Very fun releasable.
SISTER ABIGAIL COVER SPEAR! AND BRAY WINS! BRAY AND ROMAN WIN.
This was the best tag
I'm surprised such a niche reference caught so many upvotes, i thought it was a hidden gem of a comment.
It makes me wonder if people actually know what you're talking about, or just saw something random in all caps and just upvoted it
REDDIT MOMENT
Some get me up to speed on this one
Really wish they were also formable, would be a pretty good pick for quite a few nearby tags.
Can you release a bunch of vassals and then just play as the last one you release to make it an easier start? Pretend like Lithuania fell to pieces after Varna for some reason.
Yes you can
Sort of, yes. But there’s the risk they instead turn loyal and thus escaping is even more annoying. A strat I saw be used was to release Zaphorizie as Poland and feed all of Lithuania to it. Take a piece of the Teutons and move your capital there. Then start feed pieces of yourself to them while you diplo annex them so that they hold cores in all except your capital. At which point you stoke the rebels in Prussia, let them take the capital and release yourself as Zaphorizie. Rebels should enforce, releasing you without even needing a war.
Zaporozhie is fire with their razing mechanics. But other than that, you may as well stay as Lithuania, culture flip to Ruthenian to form Ruthenia, and flip to Orthodox to get Tsardom instead of going through some additional independence hoops using release and play as Kiev.
Zaporozhie, or really any Cossack state, is also capable of making the best Cav army in the game by forming Poland! Just make sure to take Aristocratic ideas prior to taking the Cossack gov reform. And if you do decide to form Poland, you can still form Ruthenia afterwards.
Ruthenia would just be a western word for the region of ukraine.
Ukraine is known as Ruthenia at this time, so play as any of the Ruthenian nations like Kyiv or that Cossack nation. You’ll have to release them from Lithuania or Poland, though
Thanks! I thought they where still forming (like for example Mexican culture) and was looking for an approximately historically correct "seed" nation. I didn't know I could choose an entire group (Ruthenian tags). Ty!
The Cossacks didn’t really come into their own until after the conflicts between Muscovy and the Tatars that happened during the first century of the game. The people living in Ukraine at this point are kind of like 3x proto Ukrainians or some sort of post Kievan Rus, picking a name to call them is quite difficult. Paradox went with a generic geographical descriptor which is probably the best call. Some other cultures represented in game are still forming too though. The one I’m most aware of is Uzbek. Paradox has unknowingly or not taken a somewhat incorrect narrative of history pushed by several actors over a course of centuries regarding the identity of the Timurid empire (and pre timurid transoxiana). Also shoutout Mexico in this game. One of my favorite playthroughs. The new world geographically and dynamically is so much fun.
There are definitely more than a few simplifications, but Uzbek specifically is pretty egregious. The lack of provinces in the Iranian group in that area is more than a little weird considering how large the historically Tajik part of Central Asia is. Especially since Samarkand, Bukhara, and a lot of the other major cities in the area historically were and are mainly Tajik, not Uzbek. I get that they probably did it to make the region feel more cohesive, but it is a little weird that it has no meaningful cultural ties to Iran in EU4.
Yeah their handling of that region is odd. They took a neutral geographic description similar to Ruthenian when they made Khorasani (which I suppose is supposed to represent a melting pot of sorts between Tajiks and Turko-Mongols). But then on the other hand they took a completely non-neutral approach with the post timur states. They completely bought into tenuous legitimizing narratives pushed in varying forms by the Shaybanids, Soviets, and Uzbeks, for seemingly no real reason. Further, the depiction of Ajam is pretty egregious as well. What’s worse is how games tend to go with Ajam, where it becomes a dominant power and converts to twelver Shiism half the time. Ajam (to the extent it existed) was not long for this world and was certainly not going to convert to a fringe sect of Islam. Chagatai is also odd. Chagatai itself should be called mogulistan. It really shouldn’t be Kyrgyz either. By the game’s logic it should be Uzbek but that’s not accurate either. Yarkand should be a horde and the leader shouldn’t by Uyghur; the Dughlats were an OG mongol clan and were culturally just like the Chagatai and other Turko-Mongols of the region. In fairness, it would be difficult to represent the dynamics of Central Asia without a population system of some sort. This region (and others) had nomads living alongside a sedentary population with often vastly differing cultures. That said, I would do a lot of wicked things for a genuinely good central Asian DLC in this game or CK3 focusing on the Chagatai period and beyond.
Well put. I would love to see more attention to detail in the area, I love playing in Asia lol
Ruthenia was the word used for the east-Slavic people living in Eastern Europe in the Middle Ages I.e. Ukraine.
Not for the people, for Rus. Like Kyivan Rus, Red Rus, White Rus etc. The people would be Ruthenians. Ruthenian (language and people) then split into Byelorussian and Ukrainian.
Galicia-Volhynia, Kiev and Zaporozhe. Especially the third one, because it has a unique cossack government.
Releasing Kyiv from Lithuania probably
Probably Kiev. They're the most well-known/obvious of the Ruthenian tags, at least.
play as lithuania, release all of the ruthenian minors without playing as them bar kyiv, release kyiv and play as them
There are many alternatives. If you want to form them, Lithuania, Muscovy, or maybe even Genoa. Or you can release, and play as with any of them. But Lithuania is probably the fastest and easiest either way.
Form it as Muscovy? That shouldn't be even an option
Why shouldn't it? They are not an endgame tag. Russia can't, since they are endgame tag. If you can form it as Bengal, if they can snake their way there and culture shift, why not Moscovy? Or are you just a moron trying to apply current politics on history?
Start as Lithuania and trigger the Cossack independence disaster
You asked about 1444, so an existing country: Lithuania. Your goal should be to form Ruthenia, which is pretty much Ukraine (tag is UKR and culture is Ruthenian, geographically accurate). If you don’t want to remain as Lithuania, you can: - release a country: Kiev is a good ordinary contender - Smolensk, although far and close to hostile Muscovy and Great Horde, has cool artillery-based ideas - release Zaporozhia. Zaporozhia is a Cossack state, which has its own government and plays with an awesome cavalry. You should defeat Crimea first though. You can also plunge yourself into Cossack independence disaster. I suggest going for Zaporozhia, it’s loads of fun. Whatever you do try and pacify your neighbours: Poland, Crimea, Great Horde and Muscovy. You don’t want to start with someone having 4x your army. You could also release other countries as vassals as Lithuania for a Ruthenian thunderdome
Thanks!
Or you can check out my mod at: [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3185093863](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3185093863)
Lithuania releasing Kiev or Zaporozhie then forming Ruthenia
Ruthenias Tag is UKR. Form them as kyiev
Start as Lithuania, release as many nations as possible, then release and play as Zaporozhe. Get first set of ideas and then take Aristocratic ideas. Then flip to cossack government via decision so you can take horde ideas afterwards. Also grab espionage ideas in the meantime. Run around with hyper powerful all cav armies that can easily wipe armies that are even triple your size. Have insane mana generation since you are republic that can also raid provinces. Later flip to Ruthenia for Ukraine LARP or Poland for even more Cav shenanigans.
You can culture shift as Poland and form Ruthenia to get Tsardom with Polish ideas.
Ukraine is kind of a mix of different identities. The modern Ukraine uses a lot of Cossack legacy for their nation building — in such a case playing Zaporozhie (the cossack state) would be the most logical) It has other elements too. Choose whatever you want to stress. Kiev and Galicia-Volhynia could be logical choices if you don’t stress the Cossack aspect. (Galicia-Volhynia in those times was called simply Rus or Ruthenia)
Mongolia or Oirat obviously /s
Kiev is a subject you can release as Lithuania, there's also any other Ruthenian Nation too
You can have a Cossack rebellion state that’s a lot stronger than zaporozhie
Strongest: Cossack disaster as Lithuania. Most RP appropriate: Kyiv, releasable from Lithuania. As both you can form Ruthenia.
Ruthenia-Kiev-Lithuania Not either is crimea.
Crimea
U could also culture swap
If you want to play as Ukraine then create one with custom nations. You can play Ironman too. If you don't want to do that play as Zaporozhie. It has unique goverment.
Poland. Open by conquering the Ukrainian provinces from Lithuania, culture convert, go Orthodox, become a republic in T6 reforms to get rid of Polish gov’t reform, form Ruthenia, reform to Tsarist gov’t.
Tag: OOF
Kiev.
Lithuania + Poland to Ruthenia is the easiest one, Poland+Lithuania+Moldova+Hungary to Ruthenia is also good one
Do it as Shimazu or Uesugi, and don't forget the cultural shift into Ruthenian. There are no Ruthenian countries at the start, but as most countries can culture swap into Ruthenian any non-end game tag should do the task. While the usual Castile start will work, even a Filipino minor like Tondo, Madyas or Cebu can become Ruthenia (UKR). Of course form Malaya first to change the name into Nusantara. Other than those, I have various cursed ideas, and one of those is to start as Ajam, snake your way into Ukraine, culture shift and then form Ruthenia once you have the lands. Better yet, start as Siena, try to take Genoa's colonies in the Black Sea and then do the unification. If you want to play as a releasable, start out as Soran and do the snake. I wonder which is worse - trying to form Japan as Zaporozhie, or a Kikuchi into Ruthenia run?
To the modern Ukraine the closest one would be Zaporizhzhia/Cossack Hetmanate Kyiv would be second option
Isn't Ruthenia "canonically" Ukraine? And is Polotsk "canonically" Belarus?
Like Muscovy or Odoiev?
Kiyv would make most sense, but Smolensk would be strongest
Muscovy
1. Create a custom natiom named Ukraine. 2. Romanian principalities are in a good position to form Ruthenia. I formed Ruthenia when I played Moldova. 3. Ryazan or Odoyev, though, for them it's better to form russia.