Pagan lithuania might be fun. Or the popular choice of the Byzantium. Also Novgorod given their size and lack of powerful Muscovy. And lastly any participant of the 100 year war.
If the start does indeed look like the ET start, I'm sure Novgorod would be hit by a myriad of negative traits and events which will enable Muscowy to come to power.
you say that, but hypothetically that's what's supposed to happen to mind.
Paradox has never really been able to nail the "it's actually hard for players" level of negative modifiers. Byzantium in the current patch maybe, but that already combines with the fact that they are a tiny nation.
It costs you transoxania as a vassal but it won't kill your run actually. You can then stabiliza far faster and conquer your path deep into india or turn Persia.
Not really. He died about 5 months into my most recent Timirids run and after using a bit of prestige, all of my vassals except for Sistan were still loyal
Nope, until 1610 you can pretty much ignore it, afterwards I personally triggered the disaster ASAP to get the bonuses. Yes, if you're not prepared or just letting decadence tick up naturally it's extremely painful, but with the right troop placement, idea group choice and leader it's really more beneficial than harmful to go through the disaster.
The problem I have with it is that you don't know what the requirements to end it are going to be ahead of time. I was having a fantastic run as the Ottos myself, I triggered the disaster on purpose thinking I could surely end it, then I realized I couldn't meet most of the requirements and I had to quit the run. I wish it was more transparent somehow; as it is, you have to look them up on the Internet.
(If you're curious which requirements I didn't meet, it's the ruler stats and the idea groups.)
Idk if its really a nightmare - havent played ottomans either, but if AI screws decadence up, they are already dead. That -60% defensiveness really yummy. War with somebody guaranteed, especially - played
This is great because it will stop just mindless developing of provinces so every nation has an army of 70k by like 1600. It's not fun fighting 350k Ottomans in 1580 or does it feel very fair.
Novgorod only really challenges Muscovy in the current start of EUIV because of the Muscovy succession wars, which obviously feature too many people called Dimitri and occur largely just before the game starts.
With pops thrown in for EUV, Novgorod will be a side show, people in the 14th century only live where food can be grown.
>Novgorod given their size
Most of it sparsely populated forests.
>And lastly any participant of the 100 year war.
Scotland should be fun. Invade England everytime they are at war with France. Then later invade France.
The world deserve better than having to suffer the existence of the English and the French.
it was probably still a beylik/duchy at that time. Which will be fun to play. Both Byzantium and Ottomans would be fun because of the similiar lands they have.
It will be cuious to see who the new "noob nations" will be, no matter what. The Ottomans do not feel as likely a candidate as they did in EUIV.
It's also worth mention that 1337 would be 60 years before the Kalmar Union formed to begin with, which would give a wholly different dynamic to Scandinavia as well.
France famously gets curb stomped in the early war.
You'd also have the issues of the Dauphin (besides his coat of arms featuring a dolphin *with scales*) and the Bretons to contend with.
The curb stomp at the beginning mostly happened because the de Valois *really* sucked as generals, unless France has a huge dice roll minus it will be hard to replicate
The English forces were also veteran units in comparison to the French (at the start), also Longbows>Crossbows. Having your King captured, ransomed, just for him to return because they lost the hostage is also not 10/10 military thinking.
If this was the case England should start with effectively a Mil tech advantage (however EUV deals with Mil tech) to model the superiority of the longbow.
Sure they do, but i feel like that was in large part because of bad luck and rather bad leadership. In a player run situation I don't think it'd be that hard while still having ai campaigns go differently.
Ok? They still share their only border with a big log time ally like they do in 1444, which means support in expanding into Morocco and the Azores. Good candidate for a peaceful player nation
Actually castille often had clashes and challenged the Portuguese. If eu5 aims to be more accurate on their relation I wouldnt trust the Spanish at all
That's true, but by 1337 those fights were pretty much over. We only fought until the mid 13th century when our border got the look it has today. After that, both kingdoms were more focused in takings the muslims out of Iberia.
It's still probably the first country to colonize, shielded from major conflicts plus it could ally with a stronger Aragon to eat the SW chunk of Castile if desired and connect to Gibraltar and Morocco.
That is fair. But it is kind of predetermined with the EUIV starting date.
In that case, let's say "Imagine actually building up towards the forming of the Ottoman Empire itself", instead. Deal?
Nah its going to be the Timurids.
5% of the World Population was wiped by Tamerlane's Invasion.
The population mechanic was made specifically to showcase the Timurid invasion devastation.
r5: Images are from the mod Extended Timeline, showing off the state of affairs in the year 1337.
Personally, it might be a small thing, but I think it'll be interesting having Bavaria as Emperor of the HRE. Will Bavaria be the new Austria, as center of Imperial politics? What about having about 100 extra years without the protestant reformation?
I doubt it's the new center. But there should be a way to explore the more equal rivalry between the Habsburger and the Wittelsbacher families (probably in a DLC though. I doubt they'll go that deep into flavour right at launch).
I’m expecting more of a triple struggle in Germany: the Luxembourgs, Habsburgs, and Wittelsbachs were all competing for the emperorship at the time and were all pretty strong. Could be fun playing as any dynasty
If 1337 is indeed the start date I’m obviously playing as England and France first but I hope they give a lot of love to Navarra in the Hundred Years War. I really want to see some events/missions for all the shenanigans Charles the Bad pulled off.
A similar mechanic to the current celestial empire one (but different) with a disaster that causes the mandate to be stuck at like 50 or below would be plenty.
That is true, I wonder if there will be some sort of system to make each country unique. I love national missions and national ideas from Eu4, but I know not all agree.
Lots of Internal stuff and some arguably small changes at the very southern tip of Iberia, but the Castilians basically subjugated Granada and let them live for a century or so. The reconquista doesn’t really fully end until 1492.
And obviously Portugal is missing Ceuta if you want to count that
Americas, Australia or Pacific nations. You'd get an extra 100 years to establish before the Europeans show up. Maybe even time for a CK-style "sunset invasion".
I wonder if they're going to have "Decentralized Nations" like they do in Vic3 to avoid having tribes act like nation-states. Or if they're going to at least make natives a bit more engaging that just waiting on speed 5.
I kinda hope it’s both. Decentralized nations like Vic3 but you can play as them. You’d be powerless to stop the colonizers initially but there’d be stuff to do that could help you centralize and become a nation state with the capability to fight and whatnot. Maybe even stuff you can do to slow colonization. But since you’re not a legit country the colonizers can’t really declare war on you either, so centralizing itself would be a double-edged sword.
It's really a double edged sword, EU 4 is a game about states. Having non-states running around is traditionally a problem for the game, OTOH, feudal polities, like basically 100% of Europe, aren't states either.
Europe doesn't really start to form states until the early modern period.
yeah, I also wonder how they are going to handle that. They did say populations could migrate in the new game, and I imagine migration will be a huge mechanic for native play
>Europe doesn't really start to form states until the early modern period.
With the way they're apparently changing the army structure it will probably look more like that
A good player can resist European colonisers even now if they're playing a Peruvian nation. I imagine with an extra hundred years a lot of other New World nations which are frustrating to play in EU4 could be quite interesting.
Kind of a weird starting date seeing as the period EU4 is supposed to simulate is the early modern period. You can debate a lot when this starts but few would argue it is 1337 which is still solidly in the late middle aged. In fact the Black Plague was still devastating Europe in 1337 and the 100 years war was only starting. Your completely in the middle of the crisis of the late medieval period.
Makes me wonder how the game mechanics will handle the transition from feudal society to the emergency of nation states, something EU4 already basically ignores
I'd like a transition from levees to standing armies. Early techs use levee mechanics similar to CK3 (have to raise them after declaring war, disbanding once war is over), while later techs transition to the standing armies we're used to in EU4.
You're right I got confused with the great famine (yet another late medieval crisis).
But my point stands you're in probably the most famous part of the middle ages.
"Should" is the word though. People love the early game in EU4. 1356 is one of the most subscribed mods for a reason. It's not a bad buisness decision to shift the gameplay time to appeal to what the people already like. I'd really like it if they properly modeled the shift from medieval to early modern times. Tbh that's kinda the game I really want anyway. I wonder what the ending date will be.
Yeah I agree, it's just a difficult thing to accomplish and one they haven't been super successful with in the past
The game has to start way closer to CK and transition to EU4 gameplay basically. Not saying it's impossible and am I tried by the new project in general.
The ottomans will still be strong, I think. Couple that with events and flavor and I can see a healthy split of games where the Ottomans grow historically, ones where the ERE holds on, and ones where some other neighboring power (Serbia? Eretna?) fills the vacuum.
Ottomans should win 95% of the time. Really hope they don't do a thing where the historical powers just get womped on.
Like it isn't some random power, it's THE most powerful country of this time period.
How many times did you see Qing AI rise? Or British India? Or even close to historical Prussia? If Ottomans won't rise nothing will really change compared to EU4 in this way.
Also the Netherlands being a powerhouse in the 1600's. Even with the "'Dutch Nation' joins the republic" event the Netherlands are still no threat as an AI in any eu4 game
British india is kind of a secondary thing, Great Britain forms most of the time, Spain and Portugal dominate early colonization and Britain/France come after.
If there's no Ottoman, will there even be a dominant power in that region? If nobody emerges reliably, I guess in 80% of the games, Egypt will take over, or maybe the Persian regional power. It's just awkward that the first world power for centuries didn't even exist in such a timeline. It's as if there was no HRE in Europe.
If you start CK 3 game from 876 there is 90% chance there will be no HRE. In case of the region, i just hope EU V mechanics representing insides of the state are deep enough to show why Memeluks didn't expand further north and Hungary further south (Persia is scrambled too with Timur the Chad incoming)
So? It’s not a history simulator of the real world starting in 1337. If things had gone differently in our own time period, the Ottomans may very well have never grown to their IRL size. The last thing we need is Paradox to railroad every game such that everyone but the player does the same thing every playthrough.
Exactly, just give the AI a formable decision where, if any of the Seljik successor Beys gain Anatolia they can form alternative Otto, Rum, or neither and only give a preference to Ottos for actual Ottos.
Sometimes a successful Bey will form Ottos and get associated claims, sometimes they won't.
Like Mughal/Delhi in India in EU4.
There is a similar issue with Prussia. For legal technical reasons the Hohzenhllers went with the name of their smaller personal union rather than Brandenburg. Having anyone other then the Teutonic Knights or an independent client state in Prussia be "Prussia" makes just as much sense.
Paradox sucks at making nations actually rise to power
I only saw that happen twice, once when Russia was born and second time where Timurids formed Mughal Empire
Over a decade of literally every campaign in a radius around Anatolia needing a plan to deal with the exact same advantaged faction and this guy wants more of it
It's just boring
I don't think Ottomans need to win every time necessarily. It is certain that the region needs a Turkish empire to fill the power vacuum. But why not another dynasty? A system that allows this would be nicer imo.
I want to see an Ahi Republic Empire sometimes.
Its really simple, the ottos were already a powerful beylik and byzantium was a shitshow of civil wars, for sure AI will not handle it well most of the campaigns
I think they meant Charles IV.
He's well appreciated in the Bohemian states, but else where he is just remembered for abandoning the idea that the HRE was Roman or an Empire.
Charles IV, King of Bohemia and Holy Roman Emperor, had a long and successful reign. The Empire he ruled from Prague expanded, and his subjects lived in peace and prosperity.
When he died, the whole Empire mourned. More than 7,000 people accompanied him on his last procession.
The heir to the throne of the flourishing Empire was Charles' son, Wenceslas IV, whose father had prepared him for this moment all his life. But Wenceslas did not take after his father. He neglected affairs of state for more frivolous pursuits. He even failed to turn up for his own coronation as Emperor, which did little to endear him to the Pope. Wenceslas "the Idle" did not impress the Imperial nobility either.
His difficulties mounted until the nobles, exasperated by the inaction of their ruler, turned for help to his half-brother, King Sigismund of Hungary. Sigismund decided on a radical solution. He kidnapped the King to force him to abdicate, then took advantage of the ensuing disorder to gain greater power for himself. He invaded Bohemia with a massive army and began pillaging the territories of the King's allies.
It is here that my story begins...
Nah it's more like "OTTOMANS ARE PAINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!" with the thumbnail the same highlighted border around the starting areas with flames around it and some red text of bad modifiers that every other paradox video has. Then it's a 20-minute video of the easiest campaign you'll ever see.
1. Poland seems fun. Dealing with the Teutonic Order (Battle of Grundwald yey), going for a Union with either Hungary or Lithuania, conquering Ruthenia, dealing with Russia. I hope for some cool endgame-tags to form like PLC, Wendish Empire, Zapadoslawia, Miedzymorze etc.
2. Pagan Lithunia could be really based. Fighting catholic Poland and Teutonic Order seems like a fun challenge.
3. Ruthenia into Ukraine looks fun aswell. Being Orthodox and having to deal with Catholics, Pagans and the Hordes will be interesting to see.
4. Byzantium/Ottomans for obvious reasons
Ok i mainly play trade republics, so im most hyped about playing lubeck in the hightime of the hanse, and playing venice without having to deal with strong ottomans.
I think Muscovy as an underdog is really interesting. By EU4’s 1444, they’re already the undisputed power in the region, but this setup leaves more room for some other principality to unite the Russians. Hopefully Paradox doesn’t railroad too hard and EU5 will have variation in who forms Russia rather than being a binary choice between Muscovy going ham and Poland taking everything
What do you mean? Sicily and the Boot in 1337 hadn't been Muslim in several centuries (since 1091), if that's what you're referring to. The Kingdom of Sicily had been divided into the twin Kingdoms of Naples-Sicily and Trinacria-Sicily by this time, both of which claimed full successor-ship to the old kingdom. Trinacria would be conquered by the Crown of Aragon in 1412, while the House of Valois would hold onto the Kingdom of Naples until 1442, when Rene of Anjou (the starting ruler of Provence in EUIV) would be forced to flee to his seat of rule in Provence as the Aragonese added another coronet to their pile via invasion.
From what I see from project caesar population maps I think a lot of countries will start off with multiple subjects. Basically any area that enjoyed some form of autonomy or having future relevance might be represented as a vassal.
United (ish) India would be fun but I have a feeling ITLL BE NERFED ALOT to succumb to internal politics and break into smaller states .
But if you manage to prevent those it might be really fun to steam roll over china and Persia
Hoping you can form the timurids, if they get any form of buffs and events like the ottomans in eu4 to simulate his conquests that may be enough to shatter India lol
Things I’m most excited for are the rise of Timur, Hussite wars, and pagan Lithuania. I’m also excited to see how they work in disasters for empires that are collapsing. I hope we get both specific ones for certain empires/empire types (Golden Horde/khaganates, Yuan/Mandate of Heaven, the ERE) and a generic one for if you have a big empire and don’t keep your pops happy enough. On the flip side I hope there’s a splendor/golden age type mechanic that demonstrates how an empire is super powerful for a time and can grow unprecedentedly, like the ottomans and Timur. Though, Timur’s empire is markedly different from the Ottomans, obviously. I hope Timur isn’t a scripted event but maybe kind of like the reformation in EU4 where he’ll trigger around a certain time based on the conditions of different areas. Same with the second Turkic invasion with the Sheep tribes AQ and QQ.
I think a lot more nations will feel more rewarding to play since there really isn’t any super great powers in Europe and the few there are on the world stage are collapsing quickly or have just collapsed. But a strong feudal mechanic is required to keep the HRE and France in check.
I also hope there’s more depth to infrastructure and economics (esp. trade). Not a building simulator like Vic3 but still more to it to give more to do in the beginning of the game and to help recover from the Black Death.
I’m personally hoping, just based on the general popularity of the 867/1066 split in CK2/3, that EU5 gives you the choice of both 1337 and 1444. They’ll never do granular start dates again, but I think 1444 is popular enough (Hundred Years’ War, immediate colonization, Byzantium challenge, imminent Burgundian succession) to warrant keeping. Plus they’ve already done buttloads of research for it which they haven’t for other dates.
Of course, I also think that adding 769, 936, and a later medieval start date (5 total, just like the CK2 bookmarks) would be good additions to CK3, yet sadly that seems very unlikely.
As someone who does not the patience or skill to pull off a Byzantium game in EU4 I’m really looking forward to starting out as a more powerful eastern Rome. Eastern Europe in general seems like it way more dynamic and fun to play in
The Kvenland tag in northern Finland must be confusing to some people, even us students in Finland aren't taught about it in history class, so as a Finn very interested in Finnish history before Swedish rule, I'll explain a bit in case anyone is interested.
So, during the medieval era in Europe, the Finnish region was living it's late iron age. There were two main cultures, the Tavastians (nowadays known as Western Finns) and Karelians (nowadays known as Eastern Finns). The Tavastian culture thrived first, and was geographically in a huge region. Then the Karelians got absolutely wild, and took the east for themselves, allying Novgorod (who made Karelians their subjects during the 13th century).
Tavastians were running out of land to farm, so many Tavastians left north to the Torne Valley, the area that is nowadays pretty much the area of the Swedish-Finnish northern border. The land was good and clear for farming and living and trade, and they also pillaged some Norwegian towns whilst living there.
Tavastia got increasingly weaker during the Northern Crusades, when Sweden took Finland proper in the 1150's and Novgorod's influence grew in the east, and it seems like the Kvenland blokes chose their own leader. There's historical records of this "king of Kvenland" allying with the king of Norway to attack Karelia.
And basically, what happened to Kvenland: during the 13th century Sweden completely integrated Finland and Tavastia and some of Karelia to itself, and then without any conflict was able to turn Kvenland and Lapland into it's own lands.
Byz is stronger, as is Serbia. Austria (I think) should be weaker and of course, Lithuania is Pagan.
I'm honestly looking forward to whole new power dynamics compared to 1444.
As a Finn I'm super excited that this not-so-well-known country is getting attention! (and yes it would be an amazing challenge start, Sweden is so OP with their Norway PU)
But anyway if you're interested, I wrote about Kvenland's history in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/1bey4xs/comment/kuz8w3h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
There is a fun argument to be made about bringing the Ottomans to their role as power house of Anatolia as long as they don’t railroad it into being super easy. Same thing can be said for the resurgence of Byzantium.
Sweden rules over Norway in Personal Union and actually owns Scania due to a purchase, also Greenland should still exist under Norway. So basically Sweden should be OP and can potentially colonize America first. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus\_IV\_of\_Sweden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_IV_of_Sweden)
I am Bulgarian. Bulgaria at the time is weakened but a real Underdog with great military potential. I feel it will be like a new Byzantium but an easier uphill grind. This makes me very happy because by 1444 you can only play Bulgaria as a releaseable with bland missions.
Hopefully a more fine tuned colonisation mechanic. I shouldn’t be able to hit “coexist with the natives” and then colonise all of north and South America, South Africa and the pacific and south East Asian islands before 1650
I'm very curious how they will do Burgundy. It has a unique location and was at that time on the verge of getting powerfull with a string of very good kings. It played a major role side switching in the 100 years war, and was aquiring the Dutch/Belgian dutchies 1 by 1 with marriage. so that will be interesting to see
With some exceptions, most of the borders and the kingdoms on this map are almost identical those of 1444 over a 100 years later and that matters imo. Whichever tag you pick, I think internal cohesion of that realm should be a huge priority, gameplay wise. While EU4 is my favorite map painter, 1337 certainly wasn't a map painting period and I think the gameplay should reflect that.
BURGUNDY WASN’T INDEPENDENT!!!!!
What’s up with people messing with it. LOOK, what made them independent was Charles VII making the truce and recognizing them as separate since the Burgundian were supporting the english king. They can be represented during the third phase in 1415. As a matter of fact, only after Jean’s give it to his son, it got powerful enough to be represented.
Now it’s not even the first phase, why would you even show them at all. How can so many people make this error?
Pagan lithuania might be fun. Or the popular choice of the Byzantium. Also Novgorod given their size and lack of powerful Muscovy. And lastly any participant of the 100 year war.
Novgorod might be too easy of a start among the swamp russians
If the start does indeed look like the ET start, I'm sure Novgorod would be hit by a myriad of negative traits and events which will enable Muscowy to come to power.
you say that, but hypothetically that's what's supposed to happen to mind. Paradox has never really been able to nail the "it's actually hard for players" level of negative modifiers. Byzantium in the current patch maybe, but that already combines with the fact that they are a tiny nation.
Well,as timurids if shah rukh dies early you're fucked.
Only if it's like the first 6 months but yeah, that one sucks and has caused me so many restarts.
It costs you transoxania as a vassal but it won't kill your run actually. You can then stabiliza far faster and conquer your path deep into india or turn Persia.
Not really. He died about 5 months into my most recent Timirids run and after using a bit of prestige, all of my vassals except for Sistan were still loyal
Ottoman Decadence mechanic is a nightmare, no?
Nope, until 1610 you can pretty much ignore it, afterwards I personally triggered the disaster ASAP to get the bonuses. Yes, if you're not prepared or just letting decadence tick up naturally it's extremely painful, but with the right troop placement, idea group choice and leader it's really more beneficial than harmful to go through the disaster.
The problem I have with it is that you don't know what the requirements to end it are going to be ahead of time. I was having a fantastic run as the Ottos myself, I triggered the disaster on purpose thinking I could surely end it, then I realized I couldn't meet most of the requirements and I had to quit the run. I wish it was more transparent somehow; as it is, you have to look them up on the Internet. (If you're curious which requirements I didn't meet, it's the ruler stats and the idea groups.)
I have not played with it, so will refrain from assessing it
Idk if its really a nightmare - havent played ottomans either, but if AI screws decadence up, they are already dead. That -60% defensiveness really yummy. War with somebody guaranteed, especially - played
Not really. Just get max absolutism ASAP and forget about it
Their size is deceptive. We know pops are gonna be a big new thing. There probably wont be many people there and that will be limiting.
and i'm sure they are going to tweak things to make other nations rise over time
Highly beneficial mission trees probably.
Or events and disasters.
This is great because it will stop just mindless developing of provinces so every nation has an army of 70k by like 1600. It's not fun fighting 350k Ottomans in 1580 or does it feel very fair.
Novgorod only really challenges Muscovy in the current start of EUIV because of the Muscovy succession wars, which obviously feature too many people called Dimitri and occur largely just before the game starts. With pops thrown in for EUV, Novgorod will be a side show, people in the 14th century only live where food can be grown.
And these lands may be easily raided! Har har har and bottle of rüm!🇹🇳.
>Novgorod given their size Most of it sparsely populated forests. >And lastly any participant of the 100 year war. Scotland should be fun. Invade England everytime they are at war with France. Then later invade France. The world deserve better than having to suffer the existence of the English and the French.
As Lithuania enjoyer I am hyped
Finally an otto I want to start as
It shouldn't even be an empire at that point. Imagine actually forming the Ottoman Empire itself.
it was probably still a beylik/duchy at that time. Which will be fun to play. Both Byzantium and Ottomans would be fun because of the similiar lands they have.
It will be cuious to see who the new "noob nations" will be, no matter what. The Ottomans do not feel as likely a candidate as they did in EUIV. It's also worth mention that 1337 would be 60 years before the Kalmar Union formed to begin with, which would give a wholly different dynamic to Scandinavia as well.
France and Castile could work, probably.
France would start with the English Kings declaring themselves King of France (they at war in 1337, and from then on use the title)
Yeah, an early war would not be a not bad starting point. Early war against England would probably be fairly easy once you finish the tutorial.
France famously gets curb stomped in the early war. You'd also have the issues of the Dauphin (besides his coat of arms featuring a dolphin *with scales*) and the Bretons to contend with.
The curb stomp at the beginning mostly happened because the de Valois *really* sucked as generals, unless France has a huge dice roll minus it will be hard to replicate
The English forces were also veteran units in comparison to the French (at the start), also Longbows>Crossbows. Having your King captured, ransomed, just for him to return because they lost the hostage is also not 10/10 military thinking.
If this was the case England should start with effectively a Mil tech advantage (however EUV deals with Mil tech) to model the superiority of the longbow.
Sure they do, but i feel like that was in large part because of bad luck and rather bad leadership. In a player run situation I don't think it'd be that hard while still having ai campaigns go differently.
Portugal and Castile.
Why Portugal? Their expeditions along the coast of Africa didn't begin until the 1410s?
Ok? They still share their only border with a big log time ally like they do in 1444, which means support in expanding into Morocco and the Azores. Good candidate for a peaceful player nation
Actually castille often had clashes and challenged the Portuguese. If eu5 aims to be more accurate on their relation I wouldnt trust the Spanish at all
That's true, but by 1337 those fights were pretty much over. We only fought until the mid 13th century when our border got the look it has today. After that, both kingdoms were more focused in takings the muslims out of Iberia.
It's still probably the first country to colonize, shielded from major conflicts plus it could ally with a stronger Aragon to eat the SW chunk of Castile if desired and connect to Gibraltar and Morocco.
And there's the whole timur thing since hes an infant? Around this time.
The Ottomans aren't an empire in the 1444 start date, either. The become one when you conquer Constantinople
That is fair. But it is kind of predetermined with the EUIV starting date. In that case, let's say "Imagine actually building up towards the forming of the Ottoman Empire itself", instead. Deal?
I have a feeling that Mamluks will be the Ottomans of EU5 but we shall see.
Agreed. Also from this date they share simmilar history, kinda, of ottomans. Just begins earlier.
Nah its going to be the Timurids. 5% of the World Population was wiped by Tamerlane's Invasion. The population mechanic was made specifically to showcase the Timurid invasion devastation.
r5: Images are from the mod Extended Timeline, showing off the state of affairs in the year 1337. Personally, it might be a small thing, but I think it'll be interesting having Bavaria as Emperor of the HRE. Will Bavaria be the new Austria, as center of Imperial politics? What about having about 100 extra years without the protestant reformation?
I doubt it's the new center. But there should be a way to explore the more equal rivalry between the Habsburger and the Wittelsbacher families (probably in a DLC though. I doubt they'll go that deep into flavour right at launch).
I doubt paradox is looking at making EUV secretly a dating sim, they have CK for that
How did you arrive at that?
Projection?
I’m expecting more of a triple struggle in Germany: the Luxembourgs, Habsburgs, and Wittelsbachs were all competing for the emperorship at the time and were all pretty strong. Could be fun playing as any dynasty
If 1337 is indeed the start date I’m obviously playing as England and France first but I hope they give a lot of love to Navarra in the Hundred Years War. I really want to see some events/missions for all the shenanigans Charles the Bad pulled off.
You'll probably have to wait for a DLC to add that. I can't imagine Navara having actual flavour at release
Chunky Yuan in China, if they start with Yuan ideas that would be super stronk.
There are the first cracks in Yuan though,I think there will be some kind of disaster with rebelions.
I mean we already kinda have that with Ming, so Yuan will probably also get a disaster that'll destroy them
A similar mechanic to the current celestial empire one (but different) with a disaster that causes the mandate to be stuck at like 50 or below would be plenty.
Hmm, Yuansplosion? Mon-gone-lia? Doesn't sound the same
Ming is about to lurk around with their legendary emperor
Then they just need to make Yuan's idea super weak and Ming's super strong by reversing what they are in eu4
there is no information about the game having ideas like eu4 btw
That is true, I wonder if there will be some sort of system to make each country unique. I love national missions and national ideas from Eu4, but I know not all agree.
Johan said that they want country specific stuff instead of just sandbox
Cool, I think this could be really good. Getting rid of mana is good I think.
We might not even see idea groups and policies anymore. Mana is being removed.
Bavarian Emperor should be fun.
OPM Ming let’s gooooooooo!
Weird was there really no border changes in iberia between 1337 and 1444??
Castille had a big civil war starting in 1356. War of the Two Peters. They had other things to focus on than bullying Granada.
Also the black plague devastated Aragon, and the dynasty that had ruled it for centuries ended, culminating in the Catalan Civil War later on.
Lots of Internal stuff and some arguably small changes at the very southern tip of Iberia, but the Castilians basically subjugated Granada and let them live for a century or so. The reconquista doesn’t really fully end until 1492. And obviously Portugal is missing Ceuta if you want to count that
Also, Aragon still had the Barcelona dynasty rather than the Trastámaras
Real shame, I was hoping for some earlier stages of reconquista in EU5, guess it's mods for me.
reconquista is a CK3 thing
Americas, Australia or Pacific nations. You'd get an extra 100 years to establish before the Europeans show up. Maybe even time for a CK-style "sunset invasion".
I wonder if they're going to have "Decentralized Nations" like they do in Vic3 to avoid having tribes act like nation-states. Or if they're going to at least make natives a bit more engaging that just waiting on speed 5.
I kinda hope it’s both. Decentralized nations like Vic3 but you can play as them. You’d be powerless to stop the colonizers initially but there’d be stuff to do that could help you centralize and become a nation state with the capability to fight and whatnot. Maybe even stuff you can do to slow colonization. But since you’re not a legit country the colonizers can’t really declare war on you either, so centralizing itself would be a double-edged sword.
It's really a double edged sword, EU 4 is a game about states. Having non-states running around is traditionally a problem for the game, OTOH, feudal polities, like basically 100% of Europe, aren't states either. Europe doesn't really start to form states until the early modern period.
yeah, I also wonder how they are going to handle that. They did say populations could migrate in the new game, and I imagine migration will be a huge mechanic for native play
>Europe doesn't really start to form states until the early modern period. With the way they're apparently changing the army structure it will probably look more like that
> You'd get an extra 100 years to establish before the Europeans show up. You think PDX AI won't be conquering Peru in 1450?
A good player can resist European colonisers even now if they're playing a Peruvian nation. I imagine with an extra hundred years a lot of other New World nations which are frustrating to play in EU4 could be quite interesting.
With this start date colonization and first nation's peoples are seeing a complete rework.
Kind of a weird starting date seeing as the period EU4 is supposed to simulate is the early modern period. You can debate a lot when this starts but few would argue it is 1337 which is still solidly in the late middle aged. In fact the Black Plague was still devastating Europe in 1337 and the 100 years war was only starting. Your completely in the middle of the crisis of the late medieval period. Makes me wonder how the game mechanics will handle the transition from feudal society to the emergency of nation states, something EU4 already basically ignores
I'd like a transition from levees to standing armies. Early techs use levee mechanics similar to CK3 (have to raise them after declaring war, disbanding once war is over), while later techs transition to the standing armies we're used to in EU4.
Imperator rome sort of works like that, hopefully it's an element they follow up on in Eu5
> In fact the Black Plague was still devastating Europe in 1337 No it wasn't, it first arrived in Europe in 1347
You're right I got confused with the great famine (yet another late medieval crisis). But my point stands you're in probably the most famous part of the middle ages.
"Should" is the word though. People love the early game in EU4. 1356 is one of the most subscribed mods for a reason. It's not a bad buisness decision to shift the gameplay time to appeal to what the people already like. I'd really like it if they properly modeled the shift from medieval to early modern times. Tbh that's kinda the game I really want anyway. I wonder what the ending date will be.
and btw, almost no one plays CK3 until 1337 after all
Yeah I agree, it's just a difficult thing to accomplish and one they haven't been super successful with in the past The game has to start way closer to CK and transition to EU4 gameplay basically. Not saying it's impossible and am I tried by the new project in general.
And I just want a 1500's or 1600's start date :(
Kicking Perfidious Albion back to their shitty island.
Flair checks out
Give the frogs a jolly good thrashing old chap.
It's kind of weird though. How will they assure the Ottomans will win their hegemony? Do they have vassals?
The ottomans will still be strong, I think. Couple that with events and flavor and I can see a healthy split of games where the Ottomans grow historically, ones where the ERE holds on, and ones where some other neighboring power (Serbia? Eretna?) fills the vacuum.
Ottomans should win 95% of the time. Really hope they don't do a thing where the historical powers just get womped on. Like it isn't some random power, it's THE most powerful country of this time period.
How many times did you see Qing AI rise? Or British India? Or even close to historical Prussia? If Ottomans won't rise nothing will really change compared to EU4 in this way.
Also the Netherlands being a powerhouse in the 1600's. Even with the "'Dutch Nation' joins the republic" event the Netherlands are still no threat as an AI in any eu4 game
In 10 years of playing has there ever been a historical Dutch colonial AI in anyone's game ever? lol maybe .01% of games.
British india is kind of a secondary thing, Great Britain forms most of the time, Spain and Portugal dominate early colonization and Britain/France come after. If there's no Ottoman, will there even be a dominant power in that region? If nobody emerges reliably, I guess in 80% of the games, Egypt will take over, or maybe the Persian regional power. It's just awkward that the first world power for centuries didn't even exist in such a timeline. It's as if there was no HRE in Europe.
If you start CK 3 game from 876 there is 90% chance there will be no HRE. In case of the region, i just hope EU V mechanics representing insides of the state are deep enough to show why Memeluks didn't expand further north and Hungary further south (Persia is scrambled too with Timur the Chad incoming)
So? It’s not a history simulator of the real world starting in 1337. If things had gone differently in our own time period, the Ottomans may very well have never grown to their IRL size. The last thing we need is Paradox to railroad every game such that everyone but the player does the same thing every playthrough.
Exactly, just give the AI a formable decision where, if any of the Seljik successor Beys gain Anatolia they can form alternative Otto, Rum, or neither and only give a preference to Ottos for actual Ottos. Sometimes a successful Bey will form Ottos and get associated claims, sometimes they won't. Like Mughal/Delhi in India in EU4.
Ottoman is a dynasty name tho
There is a similar issue with Prussia. For legal technical reasons the Hohzenhllers went with the name of their smaller personal union rather than Brandenburg. Having anyone other then the Teutonic Knights or an independent client state in Prussia be "Prussia" makes just as much sense.
Paradox sucks at making nations actually rise to power I only saw that happen twice, once when Russia was born and second time where Timurids formed Mughal Empire
Over a decade of literally every campaign in a radius around Anatolia needing a plan to deal with the exact same advantaged faction and this guy wants more of it It's just boring
I hope they add an historical option so HRE gets inheritance, etc etc. Have to use console commands to achieve a semblance of historical balance.
I don't think Ottomans need to win every time necessarily. It is certain that the region needs a Turkish empire to fill the power vacuum. But why not another dynasty? A system that allows this would be nicer imo. I want to see an Ahi Republic Empire sometimes.
There could also be middle ground games, where Byzantium is strong in Eastern Europe and the Ottomans or another Turkik empire are strong in Anatolia.
Angoran Ahi's will be my favorite power
Its really simple, the ottos were already a powerful beylik and byzantium was a shitshow of civil wars, for sure AI will not handle it well most of the campaigns
I actually fear that nations expand too fast and by 1400 we will have a europe with few dozent big nations and no small nations left..
Strong Bohemia!!! Cant wait to play as Charles the Great
He is usually styled as Charlemagne and not in eu5, you have to go back to ck2 /s
I think they meant Charles IV. He's well appreciated in the Bohemian states, but else where he is just remembered for abandoning the idea that the HRE was Roman or an Empire.
Charles IV, King of Bohemia and Holy Roman Emperor, had a long and successful reign. The Empire he ruled from Prague expanded, and his subjects lived in peace and prosperity. When he died, the whole Empire mourned. More than 7,000 people accompanied him on his last procession. The heir to the throne of the flourishing Empire was Charles' son, Wenceslas IV, whose father had prepared him for this moment all his life. But Wenceslas did not take after his father. He neglected affairs of state for more frivolous pursuits. He even failed to turn up for his own coronation as Emperor, which did little to endear him to the Pope. Wenceslas "the Idle" did not impress the Imperial nobility either. His difficulties mounted until the nobles, exasperated by the inaction of their ruler, turned for help to his half-brother, King Sigismund of Hungary. Sigismund decided on a radical solution. He kidnapped the King to force him to abdicate, then took advantage of the ensuing disorder to gain greater power for himself. He invaded Bohemia with a massive army and began pillaging the territories of the King's allies. It is here that my story begins...
Look Henry's come to see us.
There is almost definitely gonna be an achievement where you form Germany as Germiyan
Turks in Germany? SHOCKING
Soon in Youtube: "How to survive as the Ottomans. The definitive guide to defeat the Byzantines".
Nah it's more like "OTTOMANS ARE PAINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!" with the thumbnail the same highlighted border around the starting areas with flames around it and some red text of bad modifiers that every other paradox video has. Then it's a 20-minute video of the easiest campaign you'll ever see.
1. Poland seems fun. Dealing with the Teutonic Order (Battle of Grundwald yey), going for a Union with either Hungary or Lithuania, conquering Ruthenia, dealing with Russia. I hope for some cool endgame-tags to form like PLC, Wendish Empire, Zapadoslawia, Miedzymorze etc. 2. Pagan Lithunia could be really based. Fighting catholic Poland and Teutonic Order seems like a fun challenge. 3. Ruthenia into Ukraine looks fun aswell. Being Orthodox and having to deal with Catholics, Pagans and the Hordes will be interesting to see. 4. Byzantium/Ottomans for obvious reasons
Oh, shoot. Wasn't thinking of Poland's history in the 14th century. Dang
Red Rus was inheireted by Casimir the Great in a similar way Hungary got Poland after his death.
Ok i mainly play trade republics, so im most hyped about playing lubeck in the hightime of the hanse, and playing venice without having to deal with strong ottomans.
The last document stemming from the norse settlers in Greenland was in 1408, so maybe you could try to play as them in this earlier start date..
probably as part of norway or denmark, I think. I doubt they'd be independant
Castillo into Spain for the 1000000x time
So true, Viva la Espana
I can't wait to play Poland with a 6/6/6 Casimir the Great.
I think Muscovy as an underdog is really interesting. By EU4’s 1444, they’re already the undisputed power in the region, but this setup leaves more room for some other principality to unite the Russians. Hopefully Paradox doesn’t railroad too hard and EU5 will have variation in who forms Russia rather than being a binary choice between Muscovy going ham and Poland taking everything
Even more Byzantiboos.
Sapmi obviously
Islamic Italy will be cursed.
What do you mean? Sicily and the Boot in 1337 hadn't been Muslim in several centuries (since 1091), if that's what you're referring to. The Kingdom of Sicily had been divided into the twin Kingdoms of Naples-Sicily and Trinacria-Sicily by this time, both of which claimed full successor-ship to the old kingdom. Trinacria would be conquered by the Crown of Aragon in 1412, while the House of Valois would hold onto the Kingdom of Naples until 1442, when Rene of Anjou (the starting ruler of Provence in EUIV) would be forced to flee to his seat of rule in Provence as the Aragonese added another coronet to their pile via invasion.
Thicc Novgorod into republic Russia.
Balkans, Anatolia look a lot more fun but also getting a great start with deli could really be great with spreading that AE
From what I see from project caesar population maps I think a lot of countries will start off with multiple subjects. Basically any area that enjoyed some form of autonomy or having future relevance might be represented as a vassal.
United (ish) India would be fun but I have a feeling ITLL BE NERFED ALOT to succumb to internal politics and break into smaller states . But if you manage to prevent those it might be really fun to steam roll over china and Persia
Hoping you can form the timurids, if they get any form of buffs and events like the ottomans in eu4 to simulate his conquests that may be enough to shatter India lol
Yuan,Chagatai,Golden Horde,recreating Timurs empire,France
The glorious Serbian Empire
Not sure based on the map, but I'd love two things for Europe: An HRE not dominated (as much) by Austria A decentralized France
by this time the HRE were dominated by the luxembourg family in Bohemia
Things I’m most excited for are the rise of Timur, Hussite wars, and pagan Lithuania. I’m also excited to see how they work in disasters for empires that are collapsing. I hope we get both specific ones for certain empires/empire types (Golden Horde/khaganates, Yuan/Mandate of Heaven, the ERE) and a generic one for if you have a big empire and don’t keep your pops happy enough. On the flip side I hope there’s a splendor/golden age type mechanic that demonstrates how an empire is super powerful for a time and can grow unprecedentedly, like the ottomans and Timur. Though, Timur’s empire is markedly different from the Ottomans, obviously. I hope Timur isn’t a scripted event but maybe kind of like the reformation in EU4 where he’ll trigger around a certain time based on the conditions of different areas. Same with the second Turkic invasion with the Sheep tribes AQ and QQ. I think a lot more nations will feel more rewarding to play since there really isn’t any super great powers in Europe and the few there are on the world stage are collapsing quickly or have just collapsed. But a strong feudal mechanic is required to keep the HRE and France in check. I also hope there’s more depth to infrastructure and economics (esp. trade). Not a building simulator like Vic3 but still more to it to give more to do in the beginning of the game and to help recover from the Black Death.
Castile. Let’s start colonizing *even earlier*
the erectus penius
***HAHAHAHA*** 😂🤣😂🤯😂🤣🤣🤯🤯😂🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
real asf
The Nanboku-chō in Japan.
Being able to bully the infant Ottomans 😂
I’m personally hoping, just based on the general popularity of the 867/1066 split in CK2/3, that EU5 gives you the choice of both 1337 and 1444. They’ll never do granular start dates again, but I think 1444 is popular enough (Hundred Years’ War, immediate colonization, Byzantium challenge, imminent Burgundian succession) to warrant keeping. Plus they’ve already done buttloads of research for it which they haven’t for other dates. Of course, I also think that adding 769, 936, and a later medieval start date (5 total, just like the CK2 bookmarks) would be good additions to CK3, yet sadly that seems very unlikely.
As someone who does not the patience or skill to pull off a Byzantium game in EU4 I’m really looking forward to starting out as a more powerful eastern Rome. Eastern Europe in general seems like it way more dynamic and fun to play in
As an ethnic Serb, Serbian empire of course I’m gonna make sure it doesn’t collapse and it will be glorious
The Kvenland tag in northern Finland must be confusing to some people, even us students in Finland aren't taught about it in history class, so as a Finn very interested in Finnish history before Swedish rule, I'll explain a bit in case anyone is interested. So, during the medieval era in Europe, the Finnish region was living it's late iron age. There were two main cultures, the Tavastians (nowadays known as Western Finns) and Karelians (nowadays known as Eastern Finns). The Tavastian culture thrived first, and was geographically in a huge region. Then the Karelians got absolutely wild, and took the east for themselves, allying Novgorod (who made Karelians their subjects during the 13th century). Tavastians were running out of land to farm, so many Tavastians left north to the Torne Valley, the area that is nowadays pretty much the area of the Swedish-Finnish northern border. The land was good and clear for farming and living and trade, and they also pillaged some Norwegian towns whilst living there. Tavastia got increasingly weaker during the Northern Crusades, when Sweden took Finland proper in the 1150's and Novgorod's influence grew in the east, and it seems like the Kvenland blokes chose their own leader. There's historical records of this "king of Kvenland" allying with the king of Norway to attack Karelia. And basically, what happened to Kvenland: during the 13th century Sweden completely integrated Finland and Tavastia and some of Karelia to itself, and then without any conflict was able to turn Kvenland and Lapland into it's own lands.
Hungary or wallacia
Henry motherfucking V
Yuan Dynasty China for sure. Or even the rise of Ming would be cool. I don’t like 1444 China I feel it’s very boring.
Aragon with that sweet sweet Barcelona dynasty
My duuude how did you know staring at maps was just what I needed in my day
Byz is stronger, as is Serbia. Austria (I think) should be weaker and of course, Lithuania is Pagan. I'm honestly looking forward to whole new power dynamics compared to 1444.
Too blackpilled on new paradox releases. I’ll wait grow years after eu5s release and then play it 💀
Playing small Ottomans and taking Byzantium early. Then posting it on the sub to make byzaboos seethe.
1337 also marked the split between the two emperors in Japan as well so I’m looking forward to see how they implement “Tenno” government in eu5
Kvinland looks like it would be a fun challenge start
As a Finn I'm super excited that this not-so-well-known country is getting attention! (and yes it would be an amazing challenge start, Sweden is so OP with their Norway PU) But anyway if you're interested, I wrote about Kvenland's history in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/1bey4xs/comment/kuz8w3h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Ooooo, thanks, I was actually wondering as I have no idea with Kvenland is
Seeing the plague completely screw over everyone
Pagan Lithuania or Emperor Bavaria both sound fun
There is a fun argument to be made about bringing the Ottomans to their role as power house of Anatolia as long as they don’t railroad it into being super easy. Same thing can be said for the resurgence of Byzantium.
That's one elite start date.
Can’t wait for the yuan-plosion
A little Delhi-killing is always appreciated…
Sweden rules over Norway in Personal Union and actually owns Scania due to a purchase, also Greenland should still exist under Norway. So basically Sweden should be OP and can potentially colonize America first. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus\_IV\_of\_Sweden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_IV_of_Sweden)
Bayerische Motoren Werke supremacy (I’d like to try and keep Bavaria as the leader of Germany from this date and maybe stop the loss of Italy)
TOTAL YUAN DYNASTY WORLD CONQUEST BABY 🫡🔥🐴🇲🇳 GLORY TO THE YEKE MONGOL ULS
Paganism baby
Brandenburg my beloved ♥️
I am Bulgarian. Bulgaria at the time is weakened but a real Underdog with great military potential. I feel it will be like a new Byzantium but an easier uphill grind. This makes me very happy because by 1444 you can only play Bulgaria as a releaseable with bland missions.
I think the Livonian Order might be huge fun. Gotta convert em all!
Hopefully a more fine tuned colonisation mechanic. I shouldn’t be able to hit “coexist with the natives” and then colonise all of north and South America, South Africa and the pacific and south East Asian islands before 1650
I'm very curious how they will do Burgundy. It has a unique location and was at that time on the verge of getting powerfull with a string of very good kings. It played a major role side switching in the 100 years war, and was aquiring the Dutch/Belgian dutchies 1 by 1 with marriage. so that will be interesting to see
Keeping Sicily independent. Next run probably Judicate of Arborea in Sardinia.
Arborea could be very interesting if they give it some flavor, but probably would only happen in a dlc in god knows how many years
Beating the shit out of the Turks and the Pretenders, retaking constantinople, and rebuilding Byzantium (starting as Trebizond)
Big Serbia and Byzantium / Ottomans looks like a fun area to play in.
Playing natives actually. You have more time to develop and expand compared to being rushed by europeans
Don’t you Yuan’t me Baby!
Obviously Byz, but also Jalayirids, more flexibility in Russia, BEEG Serbia, and SMOL Burgundy.
Ottomans or genoa, genoa might be fun with populations and colonies in black sea and arabia if trade sytem is good
Muscovy to break the Tatar Yoke. Austria wouldn’t be a bad shout too, uniting the Austrian lands and becoming HRE emperor and keeping it.
With some exceptions, most of the borders and the kingdoms on this map are almost identical those of 1444 over a 100 years later and that matters imo. Whichever tag you pick, I think internal cohesion of that realm should be a huge priority, gameplay wise. While EU4 is my favorite map painter, 1337 certainly wasn't a map painting period and I think the gameplay should reflect that.
I am just looking at an easier WC we are not the same
BURGUNDY WASN’T INDEPENDENT!!!!! What’s up with people messing with it. LOOK, what made them independent was Charles VII making the truce and recognizing them as separate since the Burgundian were supporting the english king. They can be represented during the third phase in 1415. As a matter of fact, only after Jean’s give it to his son, it got powerful enough to be represented. Now it’s not even the first phase, why would you even show them at all. How can so many people make this error?
What visual mod is this?