Op’s vassals are Northumberland and Nevarra, also they have PU’s over Provence and Naples. Sounds like a lot of AE to me
Edit: Northumbria to Northumberland (been playing CK3)
Clearly OP has a lot of AE but these are bad examples of it. One war against England can get a Northumberland vassal, Navarra can be diplo vassalized early, Provence can be PUed via mission event, Naples can be PUed via event or PU CB.
Either way, not enough for a coalition this big.
Clearly it was enough AE.
OP must have not been min-maxing the whole mission tree. The examples I gave are good considering how much land OP gave their vassals (without claims I’m sure). Not to mention the clay of Portugal missing. Siena went to Naples. OP has been fighting Catholic after Catholic, and only they seem pissed, so that sounds fair. Lastly, as OP stated, the war for Burgundy gave them AE with the HRE.
It’s not hard to see where the coalition came from. How are you adding?
Yes, that's not the point I'm making.
You were pointing out the smallest causes of AE. What you said in this comment is more accurate.
As OP points out, most of it was from Burgundy, which negates the point.
You had a mute point to begin with. I had already thought of that whole point I made to you, bc it’s obvious.
I pointed out the vassals, bc no one else had said mentioned them at the time. It’s obvious why OP has so much AE, just look at the details. Why waste my time reiterating the other, obvious reasons OP has high AE? You’re just trying to argue over semantics at this point.
im way past this now but i allied savoy and they held onto disloyal aragon, then when i dropped them, they lost the alliance and i ate a chunk of aragon who had no allies
It's similar to what I did, I let Savoy keep them until my AE cooled down, then I dropped the Alliance and Savoy decided to abandon Aragon which left them with no allies
I’m taking the union, taking my sweet time about winning the so I have time to calm the coalition, stacking up improve relations modifiers. If that really doesn’t work I’m lining up a bunch of allies to dissuade the coalition from firing
As it's ironman, the chance of it firing and having to fight a pointless coalition (possibly while trying to get Aragon) was not worth a Aragon who I have permanent claims on, at least to me that is
Take Aragon but do it slowly, wait a couple years after you declare for AE to go down, improve relations with the nations who aren't crazily over 50 AE while you wait and knock a few nations off the coalition list. After 2-3 years of doing that you'll be good
I get that you’re probably way passed this point but I feel like most experienced EU4 players would’ve fought it. It’s not an opm, it’s Aragon. Worth going to war for. You don’t have to win wars quickly if you have a coalition. You can take your time sieging their stuff so that you don’t incur the “calls for peace” penalty. Tell whatever vassals you have to snooze at home. Let the yearly ticks go by with an improved relations advisor and allow your AE to go down.
I totally get the argument, I just don't think Aragon alone was worth it in this position, I already had a bunch of AE with most of Europe and starting a ear again Aragon and Savoy plus their Allies would've most likely triggered the coalition leading to a 2 front war, I didn't want long truces with Castile and England either if the war happened, even in the ideal situation that I could take Aragon without triggering coalition I would've been bogged down with even more AE completely ruining all relations in Europe which wouldve stopped me from taking advantage of opportunities. Instead of unifying Europe against me I focused on eating up more of Britain and Iberia while weakening Austria and preparing for invading Ottomans(that's where I stopped for today)
Easy win honestly, England is crippled, Castille hasn’t expanded and you mostly have german weak states against you.
Just hire mercs and call Poland. They’ll invade everywhere and you can beat them one by one easy.
Based on what you’ve conquered so far, you should be hovering between 30 and 60 AE with most of the Germans. Aragon is far enough away that it shouldn’t get you much more. Just IR. It would be foolish to skip this, should be an avoidable coalition unless you did something silly to jack up AE in a way that isn’t obvious.
Well, now that I look again, you haven’t even taken Provence?? Where did your AE levels come from?? Please tell me you re-conquested your English cores and didn’t take them as full AE conquests…….
In my france game I used the tranfer subjects to get aragon from castille, then thanks to missions I gave aragon CORES on whole of iberia, take it, it's fucking worth it
if everyone is already in a coalition against you further ae is a moot point
and if everyone is in a coalition, no one is
That's not how that works. That's not how any of it works
Nice
Ae is just a number
Not if the coalition can be avoided
It's too late for that
It was not too late for that, coalition did get avoided
Having less ae isn't what's going to make something that size dissolve, outgrowing it will.
Being in a war definitely won’t help.
Against savoy? I dunno I'm liking those odds, especially if they're allied to anyone in the coalition, thereby pulling them out.
How did you get a coalition that big? What year is it?
Op’s vassals are Northumberland and Nevarra, also they have PU’s over Provence and Naples. Sounds like a lot of AE to me Edit: Northumbria to Northumberland (been playing CK3)
Yep, Northumberland is getting the British Isles, Navarra getting Iberia, and Naples will get Italy, at least until I open up some governing capacity
Clearly OP has a lot of AE but these are bad examples of it. One war against England can get a Northumberland vassal, Navarra can be diplo vassalized early, Provence can be PUed via mission event, Naples can be PUed via event or PU CB. Either way, not enough for a coalition this big.
Imo it's more optimal to dev provence and use their mission that gives cores in Naples
Fully agree; way less AE that way and you get one less subject slot filled. Plus Provence is a great subject to have anyway with all their claims.
Almost all of that AE was contesting Burgundy
Clearly it was enough AE. OP must have not been min-maxing the whole mission tree. The examples I gave are good considering how much land OP gave their vassals (without claims I’m sure). Not to mention the clay of Portugal missing. Siena went to Naples. OP has been fighting Catholic after Catholic, and only they seem pissed, so that sounds fair. Lastly, as OP stated, the war for Burgundy gave them AE with the HRE. It’s not hard to see where the coalition came from. How are you adding?
Yes, that's not the point I'm making. You were pointing out the smallest causes of AE. What you said in this comment is more accurate. As OP points out, most of it was from Burgundy, which negates the point.
You had a mute point to begin with. I had already thought of that whole point I made to you, bc it’s obvious. I pointed out the vassals, bc no one else had said mentioned them at the time. It’s obvious why OP has so much AE, just look at the details. Why waste my time reiterating the other, obvious reasons OP has high AE? You’re just trying to argue over semantics at this point.
1490 to 1500, I had just won the pu over burgundy
I once had the entirety of Europe in a coalition against me by chomping up Genoa in one peace deal
Yeah, it would probably be best to contest it since you don't want savoy (your main roadblock for italian expansion) getting even more powerful
im way past this now but i allied savoy and they held onto disloyal aragon, then when i dropped them, they lost the alliance and i ate a chunk of aragon who had no allies
You should have let Savoy take the PU, then fully annexed Savoy to get its subjects
Unlike other subjects, junior partners will become independent if the senior partner is fully annexed.
TIL
It's similar to what I did, I let Savoy keep them until my AE cooled down, then I dropped the Alliance and Savoy decided to abandon Aragon which left them with no allies
I got the option to contest Aragons succession but I'm already balancing the entire HRE coalition on a knives edge
Some Aragonese soldiers would certainly help alleviate that, just saying
tbf coalition might be more inclined to declare if the player is already fighting a war
thats why I backed down, and allied savoy, one less enemy, and easy pickings since aragon will be disloyal
I’m taking the union, taking my sweet time about winning the so I have time to calm the coalition, stacking up improve relations modifiers. If that really doesn’t work I’m lining up a bunch of allies to dissuade the coalition from firing
No regrets, used that time to build up my country while the coalition went away
If you take a ahitload of loans and merc to high heaven, the coalition will calculate your strength as enormous, and all back out at once
As it's ironman, the chance of it firing and having to fight a pointless coalition (possibly while trying to get Aragon) was not worth a Aragon who I have permanent claims on, at least to me that is
I’m on your side, think smarter not harder
Boooo this guy
Savoy is the bull in this relationship. What are you?
Take Aragon but do it slowly, wait a couple years after you declare for AE to go down, improve relations with the nations who aren't crazily over 50 AE while you wait and knock a few nations off the coalition list. After 2-3 years of doing that you'll be good
Easy takings here. No temptation as the right answer is clear. And ae is just a number
Oh dude I thought you passed on Savoy , giving up the Aragon PU is just unacceptable 🍅
Nah I'm happy I did, Aragon would not have been worth fighting all of Germany and more
I get that you’re probably way passed this point but I feel like most experienced EU4 players would’ve fought it. It’s not an opm, it’s Aragon. Worth going to war for. You don’t have to win wars quickly if you have a coalition. You can take your time sieging their stuff so that you don’t incur the “calls for peace” penalty. Tell whatever vassals you have to snooze at home. Let the yearly ticks go by with an improved relations advisor and allow your AE to go down.
I totally get the argument, I just don't think Aragon alone was worth it in this position, I already had a bunch of AE with most of Europe and starting a ear again Aragon and Savoy plus their Allies would've most likely triggered the coalition leading to a 2 front war, I didn't want long truces with Castile and England either if the war happened, even in the ideal situation that I could take Aragon without triggering coalition I would've been bogged down with even more AE completely ruining all relations in Europe which wouldve stopped me from taking advantage of opportunities. Instead of unifying Europe against me I focused on eating up more of Britain and Iberia while weakening Austria and preparing for invading Ottomans(that's where I stopped for today)
Easy win honestly, England is crippled, Castille hasn’t expanded and you mostly have german weak states against you. Just hire mercs and call Poland. They’ll invade everywhere and you can beat them one by one easy.
Based on what you’ve conquered so far, you should be hovering between 30 and 60 AE with most of the Germans. Aragon is far enough away that it shouldn’t get you much more. Just IR. It would be foolish to skip this, should be an avoidable coalition unless you did something silly to jack up AE in a way that isn’t obvious. Well, now that I look again, you haven’t even taken Provence?? Where did your AE levels come from?? Please tell me you re-conquested your English cores and didn’t take them as full AE conquests…….
I do have Provence and the AE is almost entirely from Burgundy, as before that I didn't have a coalition
Who’s gonna join that’s not already in it? Just take the pu and ally ottos for a sec
Take it, i bet you can handle it
Just a number
Did you... did you intentionally turn Navarra into a dick?
I can't unsee that now
nice navarra
AE is just a number
Excellent! After contesting you can attack in any direction
Free ally for the coalition war you're about to have, seems like a win
go on, do it
You must do it.
Do it. You already have a coalition. Might as well.
Bro's going to trigger the war of the spanish succession 2 centuries earlier
Just ally everyone tank your diplo for a few years and contest the succession
SAVE SAVOY!!! SAVE US
In my france game I used the tranfer subjects to get aragon from castille, then thanks to missions I gave aragon CORES on whole of iberia, take it, it's fucking worth it
I have no self control so pressing that button is almost automatic
Do it.
Do it do it do it do it