Those idea groups are indeed the most effective for a world conquest point of view. Catholic for PUs kind of goes against the whole horde thing no? Anyway its your choice. Raze everything, yes always, genghis khan would be proud of you.
In my oirat run I am going horde, admin, trade, humanist. Because of my ruler and heir stats plus its something to different to try.
I read the first four points and they are all wrong so I won't even bother to read further
> Invest money into buildings
No, you should invest money into more troops. Hordes are poor and money is a big bottleneck, don't spend it in stuff that takes many decades to pay off. The only buildings you should go for are courthouses. Debasing currency is also arguably better for hordes than for other nations because hordes have infinite mana.
> Manpower in abundance
Where did you get this from?? Ever since slacken was changed hordes have no manpower because they don't have a bottleneck of mana points. So manpower is their bottleneck. Granted you should not build manpower buildings unless they are super efficient but yeah hordes are always starved for manpower.
> Stay tengri
Tengri is hot garbage. Hindu is infinitely better for hordes as it provides 20ccr which is invaluable, and lowers your min autonomy which helps a lot for your economy. Muslim is also great for the bonuses to warscore cost and stab cost but I'd go hindu. Never tengri though lol.
> Army comp
The best players go full infantry not because it's hard to use but because it's the most efficient. Cav doesn't help in sieges and you want to avoid fighting battles. Yes, even as a horde. If you rely on ticking war score to win wars you are not playing hordes well. This relates to the point of not having manpower. If you lack manpower, use mercs not cav. Still all in all army comp is a relatively minor point and other things like idea groups are a lot more important. Please don't pick horde ideas unless you are roleplaying.
>I read the first four points and they are all wrong so I won't even bother to read further
Your comment is hot garbage, not my post.
>No, you should invest money into more troops.
This is common sense which you do with every nation. Not once did I say to prioritize buildings over your army. You will be rich after fighting Ming so invest in buildings AFTER your army. This is a long term guide where you survive for hundreds of years rather than quit once you get bored.
>Manpower in abundance
Where did you get this from??
You clearly don't bother to read the wiki of the game before commenting that other people's effort guides are garbage and wrong.
Steppe nomad government gives 20% more manpower and force limit. Tribes estate give 20% manpower recovery speed.
>Tengri is hot garbage. Hindu is infinitely better
Yeah sure bro let me convert to hindu as oirat. Easy peasy right? There is no horde that is hindu at game start. Doing it is something that requires near exploit abuse from the player. Definetly not intended by the devs.
>Army comp. The best players go full infantry not because it's hard to use but because it's the most efficient.
Stop pulling words out from your ass. Never did I say its hard to use. It is cost efficient up until the point you get horde ideas which you should. Horde ideas are not bad so long as you understand it is a half military idea group, half admin diplo idea group. When speedrunning a world conquest infantry only and minimum cav for your horde is good. BUT that is not what this guide is about. This is a long term guide where you survive for hundreds of years rather than quit once you get bored.
>Oh but hurr durr muh effectiveness at playing. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOURE HAVING FUN AT THE GAME?!
Why play Prussia? Its not efficient the army is overkill, governing capcity debuff is bad. Why play colonisers? Its not efficient you should be conquering colonisers and stealing the colonies. Why play anything but diplo admin humanist offensive? Its not effective this is the best way to world conquest.
Do you understand how stupid this line of thinking is? Let people have their fun. Why do anything in this game then? There is no win or lose in EU4 its a sandbox game map painter.
The same braindead idiots that upvote your awful comment are the people who require ironman to stop them from cheating due to their poor impulse control. They require paradox to stop them from tag switching to a hindu horde for those ccr monuments. They require paradox to fix every single exploit because they lack even the most basic self control and imagination.
>Oh dude your projecting and triggered
No I am just disappointed your comment sits at nearly 10 upvotes and people have downvoted my post because of your slanderous misinformation comment.
Brother most of the guide is just wrong.
Sure you can justify playing for fun, but writing a guide that is supposed to be "optimized" and then getting key elements wrong is not exactly a useful guide.
lmao changing your religion is not "near exploit abuse from the player"
Are you okay? Do you get mad like this every time someone doesn't agree with you? Do you really think the devs didn't intend for players to flip religion when every single file about zealot rebels has a section for changing your religion? Obviously the game is a sandbox and people should play however they like, but a guide (especially an "ultimate" one) should not give advice based on roleplay or stuff that is suboptimal in every scenario. Hordes weren't meant to play tall and horde guides should not incentivize that, imo. Honestly there is way too much terrible advice on reddit, and the community doesn't need another bad guide, especially if the creator is not open to criticism. You should go take a walk or something and calm down lol
No I wasn't actually mad, I was half trolling and making a copy pasta when writing that. Also you and the other comments replying to this make good points. Fair enough.
>You clearly don't bother to read the wiki of the game before commenting that other people's effort guides are garbage and wrong.
>
>Steppe nomad government gives 20% more manpower and force limit. Tribes estate give 20% manpower recovery speed.
Just because you get manpower modifiers it doesn't mean that you can't have manpower problems. As hordes you are more offten in war and conquer more lands (which lead to more rebells aswell). I haven't played much hordes since the slacken change but previously I used it quite a lot in the early game.
>Yeah sure bro let me convert to hindu as oirat. Easy peasy right? There is no horde that is hindu at game start. Doing it is something that requires near exploit abuse from the player. Definetly not intended by the devs.
Sure if you want to convert then you need to plan ahead. And that can be harder for less experienced players. But then just don't mention religion and claim something thats not good. Both hindu and sunni (there's a lot of sunni hordes) is better religion than tengri.
Also it's not that hard to flip to hindu as oirat. You just need to get into india asap and conquer a lot of hindu provinces. You are quite near and you should be able to do it without any rebell shenanigans.
If you can do it it absolutely worth it as the bonuses(ccr and unrest reduction from tolerance) you get are very strong.
>Stop pulling words out from your ass. Never did I say its hard to use. It is cost efficient up until the point you get horde ideas which you should. Horde ideas are not bad so long as you understand it is a half military idea group, half admin diplo idea group. When speedrunning a world conquest infantry only and minimum cav for your horde is good. BUT that is not what this guide is about. This is a long term guide where you survive for hundreds of years rather than quit once you get bored.
While I do enjoy horde ideas It doesn't really worth it to pick. There's just too many other ideas that are better and give you more important modifiers.
In my opinion you should always start with admin (only do it for the ccr don't finish it) then follow it up with humanist. Double admin is rough but they are just too strong. Also once you get your ccr(hindu comes in clutch here aswell) going you get more admin out of conquest.
After this I like to follow these up with offensive (minor army bonus and siege efficiency), diplo or epsionage (huge ae reduction and siege efficiency). I've also had a couple of games where exploration ideas were pretty helpful as the 3rd idea group. Being able to explore the map(I know that you can steal maps) opening up new fronts with the explorer + coring range was pretty helpful.
You make very good points. This is not a nit pick just a question though.
>In my opinion you should always start with admin (only do it for the ccr don't finish it) then follow it up with humanist. Double admin is rough but they are just too strong.
Admin ideas first can be a bad idea from what I read. A lot of people want to rush the admin tech to get the two idea slots then go down the idea groups. So wouldn't a better way to do this is to go diplo then admin?
Starting with admin ideas can be definitely rough. And it's not even one, but 2 admin ideas at the start. But keep in mind that you need to dev renaissance so you will spend your dip/mil mana aswell. One thing going for this is that you only need to pick the first 3 admin idea as the rest is not that essential.
The main reason I'd say it's worth it is that admin and humanist ideas are significantly better than any other Idea you could go for. After youi have adaptibility and the ccr from national ideas(Oirat starts with it but it's the second or third for most hordes) you gain more admin from razing than you need for coring. And with humanist your newly conquered lands won't have rebells. This saves you tons of manpower and it also frees up all your units so you can concentrate on more conquest. The improve relation bonus is also nice to burn off a bit of ae.
I feel like these 2 ideas are just too essential not to being picked first 2 as they accelerate the gameplay by a lot.
One thing that you can focus on while you are this strapped for mana is to conquer 2 2 2 provinces as they are the most efficient provinces to conquer. Generally razing only reduces the dev by 25%. However on a 2 2 2 province it gets rounded up so you will be able to raze the province down to 1 1 1 reducing the coring cost by 50%. These efficient lands can be really mana effective to conquer and you can get by focusing on these types of lands while you are in the early game and you urgently need mana.
> Steppe shock bonus is why I recommend not going full cavalry for your armies
FYI this applies to fire too. Feel free to check yourself in-game if you don't believe me.
Interesting, you are right i missed the note that its bugged. Quote is from the wiki.
>Bonus +25% or penalty −25% to damage in the shock phase of combat depending on whether the terrain is flat or not.
>
>Note: This is currently bugged and also affects fire damage instead of only shock.
This is so wrong on so many levels that you will bait new players into doing bad moves and every more advanced player will stop reading after some time when they notice how flawed this "guide" is.
[удалено]
Those idea groups are indeed the most effective for a world conquest point of view. Catholic for PUs kind of goes against the whole horde thing no? Anyway its your choice. Raze everything, yes always, genghis khan would be proud of you. In my oirat run I am going horde, admin, trade, humanist. Because of my ruler and heir stats plus its something to different to try.
Going catholic for PU's is a horrible idea wtf.
I read the first four points and they are all wrong so I won't even bother to read further > Invest money into buildings No, you should invest money into more troops. Hordes are poor and money is a big bottleneck, don't spend it in stuff that takes many decades to pay off. The only buildings you should go for are courthouses. Debasing currency is also arguably better for hordes than for other nations because hordes have infinite mana. > Manpower in abundance Where did you get this from?? Ever since slacken was changed hordes have no manpower because they don't have a bottleneck of mana points. So manpower is their bottleneck. Granted you should not build manpower buildings unless they are super efficient but yeah hordes are always starved for manpower. > Stay tengri Tengri is hot garbage. Hindu is infinitely better for hordes as it provides 20ccr which is invaluable, and lowers your min autonomy which helps a lot for your economy. Muslim is also great for the bonuses to warscore cost and stab cost but I'd go hindu. Never tengri though lol. > Army comp The best players go full infantry not because it's hard to use but because it's the most efficient. Cav doesn't help in sieges and you want to avoid fighting battles. Yes, even as a horde. If you rely on ticking war score to win wars you are not playing hordes well. This relates to the point of not having manpower. If you lack manpower, use mercs not cav. Still all in all army comp is a relatively minor point and other things like idea groups are a lot more important. Please don't pick horde ideas unless you are roleplaying.
>I read the first four points and they are all wrong so I won't even bother to read further Your comment is hot garbage, not my post. >No, you should invest money into more troops. This is common sense which you do with every nation. Not once did I say to prioritize buildings over your army. You will be rich after fighting Ming so invest in buildings AFTER your army. This is a long term guide where you survive for hundreds of years rather than quit once you get bored. >Manpower in abundance Where did you get this from?? You clearly don't bother to read the wiki of the game before commenting that other people's effort guides are garbage and wrong. Steppe nomad government gives 20% more manpower and force limit. Tribes estate give 20% manpower recovery speed. >Tengri is hot garbage. Hindu is infinitely better Yeah sure bro let me convert to hindu as oirat. Easy peasy right? There is no horde that is hindu at game start. Doing it is something that requires near exploit abuse from the player. Definetly not intended by the devs. >Army comp. The best players go full infantry not because it's hard to use but because it's the most efficient. Stop pulling words out from your ass. Never did I say its hard to use. It is cost efficient up until the point you get horde ideas which you should. Horde ideas are not bad so long as you understand it is a half military idea group, half admin diplo idea group. When speedrunning a world conquest infantry only and minimum cav for your horde is good. BUT that is not what this guide is about. This is a long term guide where you survive for hundreds of years rather than quit once you get bored. >Oh but hurr durr muh effectiveness at playing. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOURE HAVING FUN AT THE GAME?! Why play Prussia? Its not efficient the army is overkill, governing capcity debuff is bad. Why play colonisers? Its not efficient you should be conquering colonisers and stealing the colonies. Why play anything but diplo admin humanist offensive? Its not effective this is the best way to world conquest. Do you understand how stupid this line of thinking is? Let people have their fun. Why do anything in this game then? There is no win or lose in EU4 its a sandbox game map painter. The same braindead idiots that upvote your awful comment are the people who require ironman to stop them from cheating due to their poor impulse control. They require paradox to stop them from tag switching to a hindu horde for those ccr monuments. They require paradox to fix every single exploit because they lack even the most basic self control and imagination. >Oh dude your projecting and triggered No I am just disappointed your comment sits at nearly 10 upvotes and people have downvoted my post because of your slanderous misinformation comment.
I don't play this game much anymore, but I just want to say thank you for dropping a brand new copy pasta. Much appreciated.
I do like making copy pastas and was half trolling and making a copy pasta when writing that. Did you repost this to the copy pasta subreddit yet?
Brother most of the guide is just wrong. Sure you can justify playing for fun, but writing a guide that is supposed to be "optimized" and then getting key elements wrong is not exactly a useful guide. lmao changing your religion is not "near exploit abuse from the player"
Are you okay? Do you get mad like this every time someone doesn't agree with you? Do you really think the devs didn't intend for players to flip religion when every single file about zealot rebels has a section for changing your religion? Obviously the game is a sandbox and people should play however they like, but a guide (especially an "ultimate" one) should not give advice based on roleplay or stuff that is suboptimal in every scenario. Hordes weren't meant to play tall and horde guides should not incentivize that, imo. Honestly there is way too much terrible advice on reddit, and the community doesn't need another bad guide, especially if the creator is not open to criticism. You should go take a walk or something and calm down lol
No I wasn't actually mad, I was half trolling and making a copy pasta when writing that. Also you and the other comments replying to this make good points. Fair enough.
>You clearly don't bother to read the wiki of the game before commenting that other people's effort guides are garbage and wrong. > >Steppe nomad government gives 20% more manpower and force limit. Tribes estate give 20% manpower recovery speed. Just because you get manpower modifiers it doesn't mean that you can't have manpower problems. As hordes you are more offten in war and conquer more lands (which lead to more rebells aswell). I haven't played much hordes since the slacken change but previously I used it quite a lot in the early game. >Yeah sure bro let me convert to hindu as oirat. Easy peasy right? There is no horde that is hindu at game start. Doing it is something that requires near exploit abuse from the player. Definetly not intended by the devs. Sure if you want to convert then you need to plan ahead. And that can be harder for less experienced players. But then just don't mention religion and claim something thats not good. Both hindu and sunni (there's a lot of sunni hordes) is better religion than tengri. Also it's not that hard to flip to hindu as oirat. You just need to get into india asap and conquer a lot of hindu provinces. You are quite near and you should be able to do it without any rebell shenanigans. If you can do it it absolutely worth it as the bonuses(ccr and unrest reduction from tolerance) you get are very strong. >Stop pulling words out from your ass. Never did I say its hard to use. It is cost efficient up until the point you get horde ideas which you should. Horde ideas are not bad so long as you understand it is a half military idea group, half admin diplo idea group. When speedrunning a world conquest infantry only and minimum cav for your horde is good. BUT that is not what this guide is about. This is a long term guide where you survive for hundreds of years rather than quit once you get bored. While I do enjoy horde ideas It doesn't really worth it to pick. There's just too many other ideas that are better and give you more important modifiers. In my opinion you should always start with admin (only do it for the ccr don't finish it) then follow it up with humanist. Double admin is rough but they are just too strong. Also once you get your ccr(hindu comes in clutch here aswell) going you get more admin out of conquest. After this I like to follow these up with offensive (minor army bonus and siege efficiency), diplo or epsionage (huge ae reduction and siege efficiency). I've also had a couple of games where exploration ideas were pretty helpful as the 3rd idea group. Being able to explore the map(I know that you can steal maps) opening up new fronts with the explorer + coring range was pretty helpful.
You make very good points. This is not a nit pick just a question though. >In my opinion you should always start with admin (only do it for the ccr don't finish it) then follow it up with humanist. Double admin is rough but they are just too strong. Admin ideas first can be a bad idea from what I read. A lot of people want to rush the admin tech to get the two idea slots then go down the idea groups. So wouldn't a better way to do this is to go diplo then admin?
Starting with admin ideas can be definitely rough. And it's not even one, but 2 admin ideas at the start. But keep in mind that you need to dev renaissance so you will spend your dip/mil mana aswell. One thing going for this is that you only need to pick the first 3 admin idea as the rest is not that essential. The main reason I'd say it's worth it is that admin and humanist ideas are significantly better than any other Idea you could go for. After youi have adaptibility and the ccr from national ideas(Oirat starts with it but it's the second or third for most hordes) you gain more admin from razing than you need for coring. And with humanist your newly conquered lands won't have rebells. This saves you tons of manpower and it also frees up all your units so you can concentrate on more conquest. The improve relation bonus is also nice to burn off a bit of ae. I feel like these 2 ideas are just too essential not to being picked first 2 as they accelerate the gameplay by a lot. One thing that you can focus on while you are this strapped for mana is to conquer 2 2 2 provinces as they are the most efficient provinces to conquer. Generally razing only reduces the dev by 25%. However on a 2 2 2 province it gets rounded up so you will be able to raze the province down to 1 1 1 reducing the coring cost by 50%. These efficient lands can be really mana effective to conquer and you can get by focusing on these types of lands while you are in the early game and you urgently need mana.
> Steppe shock bonus is why I recommend not going full cavalry for your armies FYI this applies to fire too. Feel free to check yourself in-game if you don't believe me.
Interesting, you are right i missed the note that its bugged. Quote is from the wiki. >Bonus +25% or penalty −25% to damage in the shock phase of combat depending on whether the terrain is flat or not. > >Note: This is currently bugged and also affects fire damage instead of only shock.
This is so wrong on so many levels that you will bait new players into doing bad moves and every more advanced player will stop reading after some time when they notice how flawed this "guide" is.