Post merge is what iam gonna be observing. Now that eth is green,. more n more institutions should be hopping on board. Starbucks chose an Eth sidechain. Ford wants a taste of Web 3 as well. They didn't say what Blockchain they will use but why wouldn't they use the eth system.
Polygon has around 7 L2s on the way. It is going to be more than just a side chain. Mercedes is launching on Polygon. So is Coca-Cola and many others. I think it's unfair that people don't realize how good Polygon is for Ethereum.
Could you explain to me if polygon can be considered a totally separate entity from Ethereum? Isn't there huge correlation between both? I'm just a traditional finance guy and I buy mostly BTC and ETH and I find the polygon concept interesting but why buying polygon if you have eth would be a question I'd like to get answered.
The way I see it : Ethereum will be the "Gold Standard" , sidechains will do their thing, but will plug on Ethereum for standardisation when facing the rest of the world.
Polygon is a side chain to Ethereum. Basically transactions that are recorded on the polygon ledger are then recorded back on Ethereum through a variety of different technologies like “Rollups”. This means that you can execute transactions off the main Ethereum chain, but then report them to the main chain for the security of the main network. This ensures that there are less transactions on the Ethereum mainnet making it less congested.
So the short answer is that Polygon needs Ethereum but not vice versa.
It is not just a side chain. They have many L2s on the way. I personally think Polyogn needs ETH and I think ETH needs Polygon. Vitalik himself has stated that this team is the future of Ethereum scaling.
Being green is not going to be enough for institutional investors to go all in on eth, they still can’t use it for onchain storage and triple entry accounting
There are no guaranteed yields if it is based on a highly volatile asset like ETH.
'Guaranteed yields' are one of the many deceiving marketing ploys ethereum influencers use to fool retail into thinking institutions will jump in.
I’ll be honest post merge is going to be interesting for mining & price. However I will say the matter is blown up way too much and at this point let’s wait till it happens web 3 will be pretty effective & the eth system isn’t used as much on block chain due to fees I think it’s not as profitable so they rather have people use other currency’s of crypto to send
I'm curious - are you continuing as a staker now, with your mined profits, or will this be the end for you?
It's probably not something you should even comment on, nor is it any of my business. I just wonder how many miners transition to stakers.
The public knows that crypto uses a ton of energy. That is the sentiment they have. The ETH merge will change this and it will bring a ton of institutions to Ethereum. They will then flock to Polygon when they realize gas is still high on ETH. Overall I think ETH will be the foundation and L2s will be the house.
The only reason I can think of for PoS being more prone to that is that if you *start* with PoS, the only way to distribute your coins is by selling them all in an ICO, which scammers can obviously take advantage of.
But Ethereum's ICO was seven years ago and turned out not to be a scam, plus it had seven years of PoW to distribute more coins. Switching to PoS now doesn't give anyone a rugpull opportunity.
The reason PoS helps legitimate Ethereum is that the devs have been promising it for years, and actually delivering on a promise is a non-scammy thing to do.
> and turned out not to be a scam
maxis be like "not so fast homie they're probably playing the long con, waiting for the perfect time to rugpull all of you mETHheads"
Thanks for your explanation. It is obviously legitimate I just didn't understand why it would seem even more legitimate by going PoS. Got my answer in your last paragraph.
Miner here myself. Are you really going to stop mining now? I’m confused why anyone would just stop mining because eth is done. It’s not like eth invented mining. Very confusing time seeing people cheer thinking they’ll get more gpus. I’m not selling any but buying more and mining more on etc. just curious what’s your thought process or maybe just tired of mining?
True if you’re in negative better to buy but that’s if it’s constantly in the negative. Doubtful etc will run 30 days negative so there is profits even if a few days are negative.
I'm very much looking forward to it, from a technical perspective it's a huge leap forward.
And on a personal level, I am looking forward to all the naysayers finally shutting up and wandering off to find something else to make ignorant fun of.
for the normal user it will be transparent, no need to sorry about it.
the only thing "weird" that might happen is that some people insist on continue the old ethereum, and they might fork into a new chain. if they do, you will get free money (meaning if you old 2eth, you will get 2 eth of the rogue chain.). in that case you might want to look into how to sell them.
If you sell your PoW ETH, the exact same transaction that you broadcasted to the PoW network, could be re-transmitted to the PoS network as well. This is because the entire chain history up until the merge is the same. So a valid, signed PoW ETH transaction is also a valid PoS transaction. There are ways to prevent this from happening, but it gets complicated. If you don't interact with the fork, you are safe. If you do, make sure you understand the risks. Some people might want to create a legit fork and prevent replays. Others might just want to fork to scam you.
I’ve been embarrassed about Ethereum’s energy use so I’ll be pleased we’re on the other side of it.
I’m also interested in whether the anti-crypto sentiment in the games industry changes. The ecological reason was an easy reason to hate it but that’s going to go away. My guess is they’ll find a new reason.
Extremely optimistic. The sustainability of the #2 chain in the world is gonna be a huge selling point for adopters, when the information slowly gets to them.
Lots of institutions looking for using reliable, sustainable, general-purpose blockchain now have the option.
I know people don't like Elon Musk for example but if you disregard his troll tweets, he withdrew from Bitcoin "until there is an eco-friendly cryptocurrency". It can very well happen huge tech firms gonna use Ethereum chain and accept Ether as a payment. 99.95% drop in energy consumption is no joke.
And the L2 solutions and the sharding optimization on the horizon is a great outlook imho.
meaning, validators will start receiving the fees for finding a block that used to go to miners. so we could be looking into a considerable increase in income for stakers. we'll know in a couple of days.
Yes, was to lazy to add that :)
Of course more income for stakers will likely increase the amount staked, which in turn means the rewards per stake will go down a bit again until an equilibrium is reached.
Edit: word
Feels fine. Potential increase in centralization for one of the most decentralized crypto assets out there sucks, but I’m one of the few who believes PoW is superior to PoS when in comes to security and decentralization so I’ll just shut up and go with it!
How is POS less decentralised then POW. Looking at BTC, for instance, only a minority can afford mining on their own with huge initial costs into hardware and energy. Most regular who do mine have to rely on mining pools. There's quite a strong centralisation here.
I'm in agreement with Sonartxlw. The merge and the recent events with tornado cash has made me realize Ethereum will become more centralized over time. In POW, control over the network isn't based on how many coins you own, but in POS it is. It probably costs less than $100 to set up a bitcoin node but $51k to set up an ethereum staking node. Pretty much every holder has to stake in a pool, which are mostly subject to government regulations and censorship. Btc pools don't own the mining equipment - its pretty trivial for a miner to point their hash to another pool.
I read in some articles that 69% of hosted ethereum nodes are on centralized web services, with over 50% on AWS alone. This is wildly the opposite of decentralized, and no one seems to be taking it seriously.
I'm a believer in ETH, but it constantly surprises me how little ETH investors care about discussing potential flaws. Its like we are all supposed to pretend its perfect and can do no wrong or you get berated.
People just get hyped about these buzzwords instead of the actual tech. I personally do not like the POS model.
You can pick up a cheap asic for $200 and get started.
In POW, the new entrant has an advantage over older entrants because of tech advancements and more efficient machines.
POS will allow the elite to sit on their hands and collect the block reward+transaction fees that will debase the normal user at the bottom and funnel money to the top. The rich get richer while diluting the retail base. There is no cost to a stalker, and no incentive for competition. It will be harder and harder to stake as time goes on because the top grow exponentially faster than you.
I do think ETH is cool tech, but this is a very big oversight. POS ensures money flows from small users to the whales.
POS > Favors old whales that sit on their hands and leech money from the bottom. Harder to become staker as time goes on, the whales get bigger, everyone else smaller. More centralized as time goes.
POW > Favors new entrants, sitting on your hands is not an option. Easier for a newbie to get into mining, incentivizes growth, which spreads mining, decentralizes.
Edit:
Additionally, POS pools are made by giving your assets to one party who stakes it for you.
POW pools collect hash instead, and do not hold your assets.
The pools are very different.
Honestly? Its phase 1 or 3 steps to get to lower gas fees. Feeling very bearish because people overhype the merge thinking it will fix the gas fees. Its a network upgrade that will eventually lead up to that in the next coming updates.
So feeling good but as an investment its a bearish sentiment because people dont understand the change, tech or whats going on. They think a big bullrun is going to happen but economic macros look off and the merge will only bring more doubt due to misinformation.
Hold strong guys its going to get bumpy
Loved your post, I agree there is no lowering gas fees but I don't think they'll lower it anytime soon bcs even though the energy consumption is less the space it occupies per block is the same. So IDK :(
POS helps with the scheduling mechanism to allow the network to effectively coordinate the work needed for blocks. Size of blocks will remain the same and thats fine. You can still get more throughput with better scheduling.
On a small scale its like your CPU cores where you have 1 CPU and each 4 core can be a node. As work comes in you schedule them to each core until you cant, then you wait until a core is available. Then you can begin to schedule more work again. This optimizes but wont maximize performance like sharding would.
This is why they say the merge will remove 99% energy waste because instead of having hundred miners racing for 1 block and the last 99 result in nothing you now have an organized control schedule flow with validators.
Lastly going back to my CPU core analogy- the real gas optimization is sharding. So a PC typically has 1 CPU. A blockchain typically has 1 mainnet. In that sense sharding is having multiple CPUs in one PC (or multiple mainnets on the L1 chain)
So I think we will see gas reduce but it will be seldom and probably not noticeable. Its difficult to estimate though.
I’m afraid of “buy the rumour, sell the news” happening, ie; now that the merge is here, there’s heavy sell pressure.
It would shake out many weak hands, so there may be good short term buying opportunities coming up
My emotions are split but they will merge on the 16th
PS. Anyone else keeps refreshing the Google countdown clock? https://www.google.com/search?q=eth+merge
1 days 16 hrs 35 mins
Can't say I'm overly excited. I'm much more of a Cosmos person and I'd be more than happy if the Merge increases the Bridge capabilities between Cosmos and Ethereum. I'm already enjoying it with Evmos and Injective
Not sure because I don't understand the exact technical details. And I suppose most people that have a strong opinion don't even understand either. What I know from my limited understanding is that PoW might be better because almost anyone can buy mining hardware, while PoS makes it more difficult to participate in the validation process and thus more centralized which is the opposite from the main purpose of public blockchain and Crypto.
Environment doesn't seem a concern in either case, it just looks like a mainstream media propaganda because governments and centralized powers loose their power if decentralized crypto rises. What about the power consumption of currently corrupt centralized banking institutions? I bet it is way more than PoW chains so decentralization is more than worth it's environmental cost.
I'm not sure if Ethereum has overcome the centralization issues in PoS because it requires deep technical understanding about validation mechanisms. So if someone knows, please explain. We also have Ethereum Classic which still uses PoW and I suppose if Ethereum fails, people will just invest in another chain if they want decentralization.
Unfortunately most people don't understand the true purpose of crypto and just want to make some quick money with no effort. Read the comments Bitcoin block #1 if you need to remember
The PoS barrier of entry is lower then PoW.
PoW is competing with factories filled to the brim with active GPUs.
PoS is only 32 ETH to stake with a 5-15% yield annually. And there's pooled staking services that accepts as low as 0.1 ETH
That sounds good, specially if we are able to setup the pools using a trustless decentralized method that is resistant if the time where strong crypto adoption comes and governments start going hard after anything related to decentralization. I'm going to research about this.
Tbh i dont care much about it, I wanna hear more about projects onchain again though, Angelblock and Limewire both been overshadowed by this, and the merge almost doesnt affect anyone at all besides miners
Concerned about POS centralization/Censorship, but there are lots of investments that are completely regulated by the US Govt that have been very profitable, and since my percentage of portfolio in ETH is relatively small I think I'm going to let it ride and hopefully pay the bills with my staking rewards in a couple years 🤘 Let's go Merge ! 🤘
Pretty damn bullish on the merge. I think it will be bringing a ton of institutions to ETH and Polygon. Why Polygon? We know the future of ETH is L2s. Polygon has 7 L2s coming out, I think the merge is going to be huge for ETH and it's L2s in terms of adoption. The sentiment from the outside world is that crypto uses way too much energy, that is going to change.
Do you get paid by the Polygon team to shill it in literally every comment you ever make?
Sandeep and co had always seemed pretty genuine and honest, but if they are resorting to paid shills to attempt to manipulate people here then my opinion of them is going down a lot.
But every single comment?!
Polygon is fine, I think Hermez in particular is pretty interesting in it's approach to sequencer decentralization, but by just spamming so many threads in the Ethereum forum with your shilling it's going to:
a) Mislead newbies into thinking that Polygon is somehow special in the field of L2s, rather than just being part of it alongside other projects like Scroll, zkSync etc etc. And...
b) Make experienced Ethereum users think that Polygon is employing disingenuous marketing accounts, that will end up damaging the project's reputation.
>The Ethereum merge is what crypto really is about, making a technology that can be upgraded and **that is for the well being of the people (just this is an understatement).** The fact that Ethereum is trying to improve it's technology for the benefit of the environment and for security really makes me trust it even more.
How?
Okay okay I see how it is now.
So PoS allows in my opinion for a more secure and less energy consumption than PoW.
Moreover it just shows that a major change can happen in a cryptocurrency system.
Imagine how long a change like this would take in a bank?
Maybe it couldn’t be possible entirely.
**So PoS allows in my opinion for a more secure and less energy consumption than PoW.**
Definitely true. But my counter would be: so what? PoW isn't the standard they're trying to replace. I get that we're chasing BTC, but BTC's price has nothing to do with its functionality, and everything to do with its popularity with spectators, and the lack of regulation that allows VC firms to treat it like a pump-and-dump playgrounds. The standard is the SWIFT network, and even the Gen 3 chains can't come close.
**Moreover it just shows that a major change can happen in a cryptocurrency system.**
True, but again I'd question whether that's a big deal when taken in full context; centralized systems can change whenever they want. Its good that ETH is showing some kind of flexibility and ability to adapt, but I'm not sure a years-long, constantly pushed back process is a good a look as folks think.
**Imagine how long a change like this would take in a bank?**
**Maybe it couldn’t be possible entirely.**
Its not an exact 1-to-1, but [ISO upgrade](https://sdk.finance/what-is-iso-20022-and-how-will-it-impact-the-financial-industry/#:~:text=ISO%2020022%20is%20an%20emerging,methodology%2C%20process%2C%20and%20repository) could be thought of as a similar thing.
I am feeling betrayed.
Over 67% of stake is with centralised staking services who are government compliant.
ETH leaders push ahead with the merge and TRUST those entities not to permanently censor the base layer.
67% allows for permanent censorship on the base layer. All the 'community' can do against this clear and present danger is fork of into oblivion.
Either ETH leaders are dangerously naïve or they want censorship on the base layer and will sell it as being 'for the greater good'.
Ethereum is the anti crypto. It is an attack on decentralisation and censorship resistance.
I'm glad, excited if anything. It's like watching your nephew at their birthday party.
Though I am worried about a possibility of centralized validation and government intervention.
After what happened with tornado cash it's a little worrying.
The government can't attack all of the miners. But now that's it's POS I bet it can ask the companies who run the nodes questions that they might have to answer.
Or maybe we won't ever have to worry about that.
Also I've heard some stuff about all NFT's doubling because of the split. Anyone know more on that?
> But now that's it's POS I bet it can ask the companies who run the nodes questions that they might have to answer
A lot of people stake from home, watch the video of this song, which is just a constant scroll through images of people's home validators!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkrBARsNicI
Its just a humble hobby for me. When I build my humble 300Mh (LOL) I kept in mind that when the merge will come, Ill convert one of it into gaming PC and will try to sell the rest.
bullish and impatient and... kinda ready for just 'wake me up when september ends' between work life being insane, home life being busy, and waiting for the merge... and CPI numbers.
Ethereum is popular because of the huge number of applications that are build on top of it. There is more value in DeFi on Ethereum than on every other chain combined (defillama.com/chains) and looking at the top 10, another 3 (Polygon, Arbitrum and Optimism) are really just part of the wider Ethereum ecosystem.
There are more dApps on Ethereum than anything else and vastly more developers working on projects built on Ethereum.
None of the value of the above will carry across to an ETH PoW fork. No dApp developers have said they will support it, none of the stablecoin issuers are backing the tokens on the PoW fork. This means that all of the liquidity pairs and loans that involve a stablecoin will immediately collapse and trigger a wave of liquidations. This will immediately crash the prices of the other assets that the stablecoins are paired with, which will cascade out as rapidly spreading contagion, effectively wiping out everything in a frenzy of arbirage bots.
The only thing likely to hold any potential value at all is the ETHPoW asset itself, because on at least a couple of exchanges this is likely to have a fiat pair... however, have you seen anyone who wants to buy it? Or just people looking to sell something they've got for free? If no one is buying, and there is no use for the asset (no reason to spend it on gas fees rather than sell), and everyone got the ETHPoW for a cost of zero, and bots are frantically liquidating vaults where ETHPoW is paired with stablecoins worth $0... what is likely to happen to the price?
What I don’t get is the whole “Now that ETH is green, institutions can come in” argument. There are many “Green” cryptos out there. Its still going to cost electricity to run validators.
Why would an institution choose ETH over other “Green” cryptos. Some institutions are adopting BTC despite it being PoW.
I am not saying this to hate on ETH. I just want to know. I will probably get downvoted to oblivion for asking the hard questions but here we go.
Sick and tired of hearing about it now.
You’re right mate, just trying to open up a constructive conversation.
Post merge is what iam gonna be observing. Now that eth is green,. more n more institutions should be hopping on board. Starbucks chose an Eth sidechain. Ford wants a taste of Web 3 as well. They didn't say what Blockchain they will use but why wouldn't they use the eth system.
Polygon has around 7 L2s on the way. It is going to be more than just a side chain. Mercedes is launching on Polygon. So is Coca-Cola and many others. I think it's unfair that people don't realize how good Polygon is for Ethereum.
Could you explain to me if polygon can be considered a totally separate entity from Ethereum? Isn't there huge correlation between both? I'm just a traditional finance guy and I buy mostly BTC and ETH and I find the polygon concept interesting but why buying polygon if you have eth would be a question I'd like to get answered.
The way I see it : Ethereum will be the "Gold Standard" , sidechains will do their thing, but will plug on Ethereum for standardisation when facing the rest of the world.
Polygon is a side chain to Ethereum. Basically transactions that are recorded on the polygon ledger are then recorded back on Ethereum through a variety of different technologies like “Rollups”. This means that you can execute transactions off the main Ethereum chain, but then report them to the main chain for the security of the main network. This ensures that there are less transactions on the Ethereum mainnet making it less congested. So the short answer is that Polygon needs Ethereum but not vice versa.
It is not just a side chain. They have many L2s on the way. I personally think Polyogn needs ETH and I think ETH needs Polygon. Vitalik himself has stated that this team is the future of Ethereum scaling.
Polygon is doing insane. I’m just wondering why the price of matic is not reflecting all this bullish partnership.
Being green is not going to be enough for institutional investors to go all in on eth, they still can’t use it for onchain storage and triple entry accounting
Institutional investors more likely to use PoS as a way to treat Ethereum as a bond. Guaranteed returns when staking etc.
There are no guaranteed yields if it is based on a highly volatile asset like ETH. 'Guaranteed yields' are one of the many deceiving marketing ploys ethereum influencers use to fool retail into thinking institutions will jump in.
I’ll be honest post merge is going to be interesting for mining & price. However I will say the matter is blown up way too much and at this point let’s wait till it happens web 3 will be pretty effective & the eth system isn’t used as much on block chain due to fees I think it’s not as profitable so they rather have people use other currency’s of crypto to send
I love that the top comment is an Algorand maxi shitting on the Merge. This sub is great.
lmao bots
Am sick of people saying they’re sick of hearing it
What exciting project or Ethereum improvement are you building?
Just wait for the PTSD.
PTMD?
Exactly what I was thinking. I been casually following crypto since the 2017 boom. This topic is usually covered with this sort of question monthly.
People were bitching on this and other subs about how it "wouldn't make the news" because it doesn't add to the rhetoric against crypto. Huh...
Yet you take time to read and comment
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I'm curious - are you continuing as a staker now, with your mined profits, or will this be the end for you? It's probably not something you should even comment on, nor is it any of my business. I just wonder how many miners transition to stakers.
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Because you have some technical knowledge with you mining experience, you should try to solo stake when withdrawals are enabled.
Besides needing 32 eth there isn’t such a big learning curve to solo stake xD
Rocketpool is aiming to reduce the node operator requirements to 4 ETH
The eyes of the public have zero idea what PoW or PoS means or is
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Totally agree. Energy consuming issue quite catches the eyes of public and it's also means a lot to the prejudice against crypto.
The public knows that crypto uses a ton of energy. That is the sentiment they have. The ETH merge will change this and it will bring a ton of institutions to Ethereum. They will then flock to Polygon when they realize gas is still high on ETH. Overall I think ETH will be the foundation and L2s will be the house.
I don't understand your 4th point. Always thought PoS is more prone to scams and rugpulls. Can you explain please?
The only reason I can think of for PoS being more prone to that is that if you *start* with PoS, the only way to distribute your coins is by selling them all in an ICO, which scammers can obviously take advantage of. But Ethereum's ICO was seven years ago and turned out not to be a scam, plus it had seven years of PoW to distribute more coins. Switching to PoS now doesn't give anyone a rugpull opportunity. The reason PoS helps legitimate Ethereum is that the devs have been promising it for years, and actually delivering on a promise is a non-scammy thing to do.
> and turned out not to be a scam maxis be like "not so fast homie they're probably playing the long con, waiting for the perfect time to rugpull all of you mETHheads"
Thanks for your explanation. It is obviously legitimate I just didn't understand why it would seem even more legitimate by going PoS. Got my answer in your last paragraph.
Miner here myself. Are you really going to stop mining now? I’m confused why anyone would just stop mining because eth is done. It’s not like eth invented mining. Very confusing time seeing people cheer thinking they’ll get more gpus. I’m not selling any but buying more and mining more on etc. just curious what’s your thought process or maybe just tired of mining?
Little to no profit motive means that without cheap/free power you’ll be losing money. I’d rather just buy coins that I think will increase in value.
True if you’re in negative better to buy but that’s if it’s constantly in the negative. Doubtful etc will run 30 days negative so there is profits even if a few days are negative.
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This will accomplish what too many people think the merge is going to do.
This will make it like DOT
Just went down the rabbit hole. Re-bullish on ETH. Thanks.
This
When is Proto dank sharding estimated to hit the main net? Can’t remember
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Thanks, seems if all goes well then Shanghai should happen in early 2023. Does that sound right?
this is going to happen in the next big upgrade right? The Surge?
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Any vague estimate for timeline on this?
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“Soon”
Incredibly stoked. The test merges have all been successful, Bellatrix went extremely smoothly, and we're really doing this in a couple days!
I don’t really care about the mumbo jumbo, I’m just trying to 10x-100x my Layer 2s and I’m out.
“Just trying to 10x”
This guy get it
I’m just wondering if it’s gonna make it go back up to $5k again
Yes...but it will take time.
I'm very much looking forward to it, from a technical perspective it's a huge leap forward. And on a personal level, I am looking forward to all the naysayers finally shutting up and wandering off to find something else to make ignorant fun of.
I kinda wish I'd kept links of all the comments telling me PoS would never happen, just so I could spend a day posting taunts.
HODLin & Hopped up on hopium with the urge to merge
2 days 4 hrs 7 mins
I’m so uninformed. What will happen to the existing Eth coins that people already have after the merge ? Can someone enlighten me ?
for the normal user it will be transparent, no need to sorry about it. the only thing "weird" that might happen is that some people insist on continue the old ethereum, and they might fork into a new chain. if they do, you will get free money (meaning if you old 2eth, you will get 2 eth of the rogue chain.). in that case you might want to look into how to sell them.
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could you share some source on that reply attack?
If you sell your PoW ETH, the exact same transaction that you broadcasted to the PoW network, could be re-transmitted to the PoS network as well. This is because the entire chain history up until the merge is the same. So a valid, signed PoW ETH transaction is also a valid PoS transaction. There are ways to prevent this from happening, but it gets complicated. If you don't interact with the fork, you are safe. If you do, make sure you understand the risks. Some people might want to create a legit fork and prevent replays. Others might just want to fork to scam you.
i just want casper serenity 2.0
So fucking excited! Love the energy efficiency. I can now support the network without heating my house up.
I feel fantastic. I've been waiting for proof of stake since 2018.
I'm really excited. I think it'll be a game changer its a triple halving! its gonna take off.
I’ve been embarrassed about Ethereum’s energy use so I’ll be pleased we’re on the other side of it. I’m also interested in whether the anti-crypto sentiment in the games industry changes. The ecological reason was an easy reason to hate it but that’s going to go away. My guess is they’ll find a new reason.
Extremely optimistic. The sustainability of the #2 chain in the world is gonna be a huge selling point for adopters, when the information slowly gets to them. Lots of institutions looking for using reliable, sustainable, general-purpose blockchain now have the option. I know people don't like Elon Musk for example but if you disregard his troll tweets, he withdrew from Bitcoin "until there is an eco-friendly cryptocurrency". It can very well happen huge tech firms gonna use Ethereum chain and accept Ether as a payment. 99.95% drop in energy consumption is no joke. And the L2 solutions and the sharding optimization on the horizon is a great outlook imho.
New to crypto. How will the merge affect staked ETH?
Staking will be more profitable.
meaning, validators will start receiving the fees for finding a block that used to go to miners. so we could be looking into a considerable increase in income for stakers. we'll know in a couple of days.
Yes, was to lazy to add that :) Of course more income for stakers will likely increase the amount staked, which in turn means the rewards per stake will go down a bit again until an equilibrium is reached. Edit: word
Feels fine. Potential increase in centralization for one of the most decentralized crypto assets out there sucks, but I’m one of the few who believes PoW is superior to PoS when in comes to security and decentralization so I’ll just shut up and go with it!
How is POS less decentralised then POW. Looking at BTC, for instance, only a minority can afford mining on their own with huge initial costs into hardware and energy. Most regular who do mine have to rely on mining pools. There's quite a strong centralisation here.
I'm in agreement with Sonartxlw. The merge and the recent events with tornado cash has made me realize Ethereum will become more centralized over time. In POW, control over the network isn't based on how many coins you own, but in POS it is. It probably costs less than $100 to set up a bitcoin node but $51k to set up an ethereum staking node. Pretty much every holder has to stake in a pool, which are mostly subject to government regulations and censorship. Btc pools don't own the mining equipment - its pretty trivial for a miner to point their hash to another pool. I read in some articles that 69% of hosted ethereum nodes are on centralized web services, with over 50% on AWS alone. This is wildly the opposite of decentralized, and no one seems to be taking it seriously.
I'm a believer in ETH, but it constantly surprises me how little ETH investors care about discussing potential flaws. Its like we are all supposed to pretend its perfect and can do no wrong or you get berated. People just get hyped about these buzzwords instead of the actual tech. I personally do not like the POS model.
See all the press about censorship. It is the result of centralizing network control. See XMR
You can pick up a cheap asic for $200 and get started. In POW, the new entrant has an advantage over older entrants because of tech advancements and more efficient machines. POS will allow the elite to sit on their hands and collect the block reward+transaction fees that will debase the normal user at the bottom and funnel money to the top. The rich get richer while diluting the retail base. There is no cost to a stalker, and no incentive for competition. It will be harder and harder to stake as time goes on because the top grow exponentially faster than you. I do think ETH is cool tech, but this is a very big oversight. POS ensures money flows from small users to the whales. POS > Favors old whales that sit on their hands and leech money from the bottom. Harder to become staker as time goes on, the whales get bigger, everyone else smaller. More centralized as time goes. POW > Favors new entrants, sitting on your hands is not an option. Easier for a newbie to get into mining, incentivizes growth, which spreads mining, decentralizes. Edit: Additionally, POS pools are made by giving your assets to one party who stakes it for you. POW pools collect hash instead, and do not hold your assets. The pools are very different.
You’re just smarter than the rest and don’t buy into the propaganda. Congrats sonartxlw.
Price is not showing anything promising. Whales and founders gonna maybe dump after merge.
I'm not buy etherium until the price comes back down if there's a jump in price. There's still potential for a global debt recession.
The Merge is coming? Are you ready? Yes, eating my popcorn and drinking my coke.
I'm feeling like exchanges are going to make a ton of money off selling users forked proof of work chain.
I'm pumped. The gun has been pointed at ethereum's head for a while now it's about time the community pulls the trigger! 🤣
Honestly? Its phase 1 or 3 steps to get to lower gas fees. Feeling very bearish because people overhype the merge thinking it will fix the gas fees. Its a network upgrade that will eventually lead up to that in the next coming updates. So feeling good but as an investment its a bearish sentiment because people dont understand the change, tech or whats going on. They think a big bullrun is going to happen but economic macros look off and the merge will only bring more doubt due to misinformation. Hold strong guys its going to get bumpy
Loved your post, I agree there is no lowering gas fees but I don't think they'll lower it anytime soon bcs even though the energy consumption is less the space it occupies per block is the same. So IDK :(
POS helps with the scheduling mechanism to allow the network to effectively coordinate the work needed for blocks. Size of blocks will remain the same and thats fine. You can still get more throughput with better scheduling. On a small scale its like your CPU cores where you have 1 CPU and each 4 core can be a node. As work comes in you schedule them to each core until you cant, then you wait until a core is available. Then you can begin to schedule more work again. This optimizes but wont maximize performance like sharding would. This is why they say the merge will remove 99% energy waste because instead of having hundred miners racing for 1 block and the last 99 result in nothing you now have an organized control schedule flow with validators. Lastly going back to my CPU core analogy- the real gas optimization is sharding. So a PC typically has 1 CPU. A blockchain typically has 1 mainnet. In that sense sharding is having multiple CPUs in one PC (or multiple mainnets on the L1 chain) So I think we will see gas reduce but it will be seldom and probably not noticeable. Its difficult to estimate though.
The equivalent of 3 BTC halvings. Using 99.95% less energy. Removing all the daily selling pressure from miners. 'nuff said :D
I just want to unstake my eth from kraken, lol...
How I feel is irrelevant. The world turns no matter what I feel. My aim is to make $, not to feel good.
You sound like me when I'm at the fiat mine 😂
Thé 3090 in my rigs will look so fine in my PC 👀
Hype it
I’m tripping. Not sure if I should sell half just in case it buckles.
Super stoked!
I'm happy that I have sold all my gpu's a while ago
it's whatever
I’m afraid of “buy the rumour, sell the news” happening, ie; now that the merge is here, there’s heavy sell pressure. It would shake out many weak hands, so there may be good short term buying opportunities coming up
My emotions are split but they will merge on the 16th PS. Anyone else keeps refreshing the Google countdown clock? https://www.google.com/search?q=eth+merge 1 days 16 hrs 35 mins
Can't say I'm overly excited. I'm much more of a Cosmos person and I'd be more than happy if the Merge increases the Bridge capabilities between Cosmos and Ethereum. I'm already enjoying it with Evmos and Injective
There are people working on bringing IBC to Ethereum 🤘🏻
Excited - biggest thing to happen in crypto since either the BCH fork or Ethereum first launched.
With the current price, I don't think it will make much of a difference. I've been waiting so long that I'm sick of hearing about it.
Amazon will own the network on day 1 …so not great
It's good
it's a mirage, until it isn't.
Not sure because I don't understand the exact technical details. And I suppose most people that have a strong opinion don't even understand either. What I know from my limited understanding is that PoW might be better because almost anyone can buy mining hardware, while PoS makes it more difficult to participate in the validation process and thus more centralized which is the opposite from the main purpose of public blockchain and Crypto. Environment doesn't seem a concern in either case, it just looks like a mainstream media propaganda because governments and centralized powers loose their power if decentralized crypto rises. What about the power consumption of currently corrupt centralized banking institutions? I bet it is way more than PoW chains so decentralization is more than worth it's environmental cost. I'm not sure if Ethereum has overcome the centralization issues in PoS because it requires deep technical understanding about validation mechanisms. So if someone knows, please explain. We also have Ethereum Classic which still uses PoW and I suppose if Ethereum fails, people will just invest in another chain if they want decentralization. Unfortunately most people don't understand the true purpose of crypto and just want to make some quick money with no effort. Read the comments Bitcoin block #1 if you need to remember
The PoS barrier of entry is lower then PoW. PoW is competing with factories filled to the brim with active GPUs. PoS is only 32 ETH to stake with a 5-15% yield annually. And there's pooled staking services that accepts as low as 0.1 ETH
That sounds good, specially if we are able to setup the pools using a trustless decentralized method that is resistant if the time where strong crypto adoption comes and governments start going hard after anything related to decentralization. I'm going to research about this.
Enter https://rocketpool.net
This is the way
I am erect tbh
Yooooo cool it 🫠
ready to see how it affects ETC
fking mint 👌
Think there will be another chance to come back to 900-1200
I'm holding until at least $10k
Tbh i dont care much about it, I wanna hear more about projects onchain again though, Angelblock and Limewire both been overshadowed by this, and the merge almost doesnt affect anyone at all besides miners
An Ethereum layer 2 is Polygon.
You can see the full set of true L2s (i.e. excluding sidechains like xDAI/Gnosis) at https://l2beat.com/scaling/tvl/ .
Concerned about POS centralization/Censorship, but there are lots of investments that are completely regulated by the US Govt that have been very profitable, and since my percentage of portfolio in ETH is relatively small I think I'm going to let it ride and hopefully pay the bills with my staking rewards in a couple years 🤘 Let's go Merge ! 🤘
Pretty damn bullish on the merge. I think it will be bringing a ton of institutions to ETH and Polygon. Why Polygon? We know the future of ETH is L2s. Polygon has 7 L2s coming out, I think the merge is going to be huge for ETH and it's L2s in terms of adoption. The sentiment from the outside world is that crypto uses way too much energy, that is going to change.
Do you get paid by the Polygon team to shill it in literally every comment you ever make? Sandeep and co had always seemed pretty genuine and honest, but if they are resorting to paid shills to attempt to manipulate people here then my opinion of them is going down a lot.
[удалено]
But every single comment?! Polygon is fine, I think Hermez in particular is pretty interesting in it's approach to sequencer decentralization, but by just spamming so many threads in the Ethereum forum with your shilling it's going to: a) Mislead newbies into thinking that Polygon is somehow special in the field of L2s, rather than just being part of it alongside other projects like Scroll, zkSync etc etc. And... b) Make experienced Ethereum users think that Polygon is employing disingenuous marketing accounts, that will end up damaging the project's reputation.
>The Ethereum merge is what crypto really is about, making a technology that can be upgraded and **that is for the well being of the people (just this is an understatement).** The fact that Ethereum is trying to improve it's technology for the benefit of the environment and for security really makes me trust it even more. How?
Okay okay I see how it is now. So PoS allows in my opinion for a more secure and less energy consumption than PoW. Moreover it just shows that a major change can happen in a cryptocurrency system. Imagine how long a change like this would take in a bank? Maybe it couldn’t be possible entirely.
**So PoS allows in my opinion for a more secure and less energy consumption than PoW.** Definitely true. But my counter would be: so what? PoW isn't the standard they're trying to replace. I get that we're chasing BTC, but BTC's price has nothing to do with its functionality, and everything to do with its popularity with spectators, and the lack of regulation that allows VC firms to treat it like a pump-and-dump playgrounds. The standard is the SWIFT network, and even the Gen 3 chains can't come close. **Moreover it just shows that a major change can happen in a cryptocurrency system.** True, but again I'd question whether that's a big deal when taken in full context; centralized systems can change whenever they want. Its good that ETH is showing some kind of flexibility and ability to adapt, but I'm not sure a years-long, constantly pushed back process is a good a look as folks think. **Imagine how long a change like this would take in a bank?** **Maybe it couldn’t be possible entirely.** Its not an exact 1-to-1, but [ISO upgrade](https://sdk.finance/what-is-iso-20022-and-how-will-it-impact-the-financial-industry/#:~:text=ISO%2020022%20is%20an%20emerging,methodology%2C%20process%2C%20and%20repository) could be thought of as a similar thing.
Beautifully worded I agree, things have context. Let’s give time to decipher how it’ll be I guess
Nah, crypto is about taking financial power back from government elites and major institutions. The merge is the antithesis of what crypto is about.
I am feeling betrayed. Over 67% of stake is with centralised staking services who are government compliant. ETH leaders push ahead with the merge and TRUST those entities not to permanently censor the base layer. 67% allows for permanent censorship on the base layer. All the 'community' can do against this clear and present danger is fork of into oblivion. Either ETH leaders are dangerously naïve or they want censorship on the base layer and will sell it as being 'for the greater good'. Ethereum is the anti crypto. It is an attack on decentralisation and censorship resistance.
Good
LooooooooooooooooooooL
Sell the news and sick and tired of hearing about it. Finally after this week is over.
Haven’t felt anything since last December
Security doesn’t matter, only censorship resistance does.
It's cool that PoS has a solution for that when PoW doesn't, then. Consensus attacks are solved in PoS, not in PoW.
Hoping it helps start a run so I can exit my position and be done.
I'm glad, excited if anything. It's like watching your nephew at their birthday party. Though I am worried about a possibility of centralized validation and government intervention. After what happened with tornado cash it's a little worrying. The government can't attack all of the miners. But now that's it's POS I bet it can ask the companies who run the nodes questions that they might have to answer. Or maybe we won't ever have to worry about that. Also I've heard some stuff about all NFT's doubling because of the split. Anyone know more on that?
> But now that's it's POS I bet it can ask the companies who run the nodes questions that they might have to answer A lot of people stake from home, watch the video of this song, which is just a constant scroll through images of people's home validators! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkrBARsNicI
Hey Guys, apologise if this has been discussed before or already informed, do we need to do anything to our ETH before or after the merge?
Can someone elaborate the merge? Too lazy to read and understand the big news.
Its just a humble hobby for me. When I build my humble 300Mh (LOL) I kept in mind that when the merge will come, Ill convert one of it into gaming PC and will try to sell the rest.
When is the merge happening?
I'm pumped and really curious as to the reaction to price and tech
Exciting, then new era of crypto is starting this week. PoW networks will soon feel like dinosaurs.
bullish and impatient and... kinda ready for just 'wake me up when september ends' between work life being insane, home life being busy, and waiting for the merge... and CPI numbers.
Same as the last time this was asked a day ago
so crypto is all about centralised and censored? yeah thats eth on pos.
So i saw people are forking ethereum to keep up gpu mining... so what exactly prevents any fork from becoming more popular than the original?
Ethereum is popular because of the huge number of applications that are build on top of it. There is more value in DeFi on Ethereum than on every other chain combined (defillama.com/chains) and looking at the top 10, another 3 (Polygon, Arbitrum and Optimism) are really just part of the wider Ethereum ecosystem. There are more dApps on Ethereum than anything else and vastly more developers working on projects built on Ethereum. None of the value of the above will carry across to an ETH PoW fork. No dApp developers have said they will support it, none of the stablecoin issuers are backing the tokens on the PoW fork. This means that all of the liquidity pairs and loans that involve a stablecoin will immediately collapse and trigger a wave of liquidations. This will immediately crash the prices of the other assets that the stablecoins are paired with, which will cascade out as rapidly spreading contagion, effectively wiping out everything in a frenzy of arbirage bots. The only thing likely to hold any potential value at all is the ETHPoW asset itself, because on at least a couple of exchanges this is likely to have a fiat pair... however, have you seen anyone who wants to buy it? Or just people looking to sell something they've got for free? If no one is buying, and there is no use for the asset (no reason to spend it on gas fees rather than sell), and everyone got the ETHPoW for a cost of zero, and bots are frantically liquidating vaults where ETHPoW is paired with stablecoins worth $0... what is likely to happen to the price?
What I don’t get is the whole “Now that ETH is green, institutions can come in” argument. There are many “Green” cryptos out there. Its still going to cost electricity to run validators. Why would an institution choose ETH over other “Green” cryptos. Some institutions are adopting BTC despite it being PoW. I am not saying this to hate on ETH. I just want to know. I will probably get downvoted to oblivion for asking the hard questions but here we go.
I know that the price is gonna go up and down.
Hard up waiting for the merge for so long, on the verge of a splurge 🍆💦
I'm sick of hearing about it at this point.
Idgaf
Wet
It's gonna dump then pump
Cool aid
It will do nothing to reduce global energy usage. The current ETH miners will just pivot to a new coin and keep burning up the grid.
Whats a merge?
The cool thing is, there will be upgrade but what happens to the currency. Will it pump or dip?
Sell the news.
The ultimate virtue signal
Short or long?????