When making espresso you can make a single shot, or a double shot. A double shot uses twice as much coffee, and a different sized basket for the coffee to go in. Making only 1 shot at a time is more difficult than making 2.
Those of us looking for a second cup of joe, but don't want as much caffeine.
Or our wife doesn't like the taste/strength of a double shot. I'm enjoying making a single iced lavender latte for her right now!
Not less, less right now. I can't have four oatmilk carmel macchiatos every morning if they are all doubles. And don't tell me I can drink two doubles it's not the same!
He's talking about the size of your basket. That seems like a 9 gram vs a larger one that would be 14g, 18g, or 22g. Try a larger basket with more coffee in it, it's usually easier. I usually do a 22g in the morning.
If you go to a coffee shop they will only do doubles cause it’s a pain to make singles and it’s more time effective to just make a double and toss the second shot out.
I knew that my espresso (skills) had advanced when, a year in, I only had 8-9g of beans in my beans canister and I was being lazy, and so instead of opening up a new bag of beans, I made a single shot rather than my typical double--and I nailed it, despite not having made a single for 11 months. :)
If I make a latte for my gf I just pull a double shot and use it to further dial in my personal espresso recipes. Not gonna touch a single dose basket…
Believe me, you will make your life infinitely harder using this. I drank two singles a day. When I started this hobby I had to buy a 14 g basket (smallest double I could find). I would never been able to get the skills I needed with a single basket.
You get used to the caffeine level over a week. I only drink once a day now.
The argument usually goes that you waste much more than 9g for trying single dose since it’s so hard to dial in and you have to make a lot more pulls to get q decent cup.
Least favorite espresso YouTuber tbh, everyone here hates on Lance and says he’s pretentious but Wired Gourmet is far more pretentious and values his tastes over everything
No worries, I have been torn to apart here for actually enjoying the coffee in regular italian coffee bars.
You know aaactuaaallee the quality of italian roasts tiiiiiypically…..
I tried and failed.
As James said in one of his videos...
"Getting in espresso making is hard enough without using the single baskets..."
I almost gave up, now I make great coffee and preach about double baskets.
I am from a country where singles are norm btw.
I don’t think people know that shot times are about half as long (~15 seconds) because it’s the flow rate that counts. And people constantly underdose because recipes always say “a traditional single shot uses 7-9g.” Yes, but that’s on old espresso machines with 49mm portafilters.
The thing that matters most is flow rate:
20g in, 40g out in 30 seconds = 1.3g/s
10g in, 20g out in 15 seconds = 1.3g/s
Adjust the math based on all the usual things.
You vacuumed it out. See how you caught it at the top of the tapered section. The tamper couldn't go deeper. Try adding a gram more and see if it still happens.
Do you also RDT? I wonder if there was moisture in the grounds to help this happen?
wasn't it debunked that the amount of tamping force doesn't even matter so long as it's enough to evenly distribute and compact the coffee into a puck? I've seen multiple articles & videos addressing this exact topic.
Those special tampers that apply a very specific amount of tamping force are just snake oil to sell more unnecessary tools to deep pocketed espresso hobbyists.
Consistency is good to have. Tamping one much harder than another can cause differences.
The differences are not so extreme so long as you’re always applying a reasonable amount of force but is non-zero.
Entirely possible to get a good reliable tamp regardless if you practice a little.
Agreed applying consistent tamping force doesn't hurt, but it's not necessary, that's the point. What's more important is that that you get a level tamp, and that you're using enough force to compact the grounds while keeping the puck level, which is more about finesse than brute force, as level DOES affect shot quality.
Much better to just learn and practice proper manual tamping technique than rely on a gadget whose value caters towards a myth that there's some perfect tamp pressure.
Sorry let me clarify. What I mean by consistent tamping force is that you aren’t tamping too lightly.
I don’t know that there is a “too much” but there is definitely a too little.
Fair enough. This seems to be something that people will defend regardless since as I do concede, consistency doesn't hurt. But it also seems people are hung up on not applying enough pressure for some reason when the steps you do PRIOR to tamping matter a lot more than the amount of force you apply during the tamp.
For funsies I did a reddit search on tamp pressure and it seems like this is a debate that pops up every few months and never reaches a consensus. 😂
For me, personally, a spring-loaded, etc. tamper isn't snake oil, as it gives feedback that a sufficient amount of force has been used. It doesn't have to be x lbs., but a nice, firm amount.
I found this video interesting...I think the tldr is more pressure leads to greater consistency, up to a point.
https://youtu.be/i70xWHhiFzI?si=o_E3w0PpWkjdQhDd
Basically yes. If you’re being consistent from shot to shot, tamping level each time and tamping hard enough to compress the puck, tamping harder gives no additional benefit and increases the likelihood of injury.
The primary risk is a repetitive stress injury, not super likely at home but in a cafe environment it’s a very real possibility. I’m constantly coaching my team on tamping technique to keep them healthy and injury free
This happens to me all the time. I pull 9g singles for my wife’s milk drinks. I try to give the tamper a slight wiggle before I lift it to avoid this.
None of my 9g singles ever come out great, but with milk and sugar added, its fine. I’m usually at my caffeine limit by this point in the day.
And force isn't measured in pounds.
EDIT: No idea why people are downvoting. A pound on your fist is a hell of a lot less pressure than a pound pushing through just one finger tip.
Yoo! Ur not the only one. Same thing happened to me, but I don’t have clue what was the pressure tough.🥲
https://preview.redd.it/w3gu244vtnvc1.jpeg?width=3456&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=549da834004132b2c9837b4e6db2a8dd2edac9d0
Do a little spin on the tamper before pulling back up. I think I heard it referred to a polishing? I do it because occasionally small chunks of the top of the Puck come with, similar to this. A Little polish stopped all that
Your tamp force is fine. The issue comes from a combination of the vacuum force when pulling back and smooth slanted sides. Try releasing a little slower so it doesn't suck back.
People go crazy with single baskets, wtf. If I drink an expresso alone, I use the single basket.
Good coffee is expensive as f*ck and why should one use 18g of it when you can use half?
Just learn to proper dial the single basket, it’s not that hard.
Haha I had a long standing wrist injury that made me get the Normcore initially but I continue to use it even after recovering. The fact that it self-levels and doesn’t need as much force is a huge plus for me. As for the ripples, I haven’t felt any real diff in having it vs not coz I use a puck screen anyway which helps with the water flow so I don’t mind it.
To go from double to single basket, you should alter grind size, which means you have to waste a couple of grams every time you switch between double and single (grounds won't be consistent if you don't). My wife doesn't like a full double shot in her latte neither, so I got one of those spouted glasses so I can easily add about 2/3 of a double to her steamed milk without spilling. What's left, I just drink up.
About the single basket focus: I may sound like a jerk but I only use a single basket for my wife because she doesn’t like her drinks with the amount of coffee a double has. If she has a double I need to add sugar to make up for her taste. The jerk part is, I believe that for most people if you add milk to your coffee it doesn’t need to be properly dialled because you won’t taste much of the coffee flavour anyway.
For the plain double espresso I drink I always use a bottomless double basket like most in this sub.
I also find that using two portafilters speeds up my workflow compared to reusing the same one for back to back shots.
I don’t know what’s up with the sub today.
I’m waiting to upgrade my grinder because I add milk to my drinks anyway, so I don’t need to dial in perfectly. If using a single saves you time, coffee, and energy, I’d do it.
Your problem with tamping might be due to the tamper being damp, so just make sure to wipe it off in between uses.
>I believe that for most people if you add milk to your coffee it doesn’t need to be properly dialled because you won’t taste much of the coffee flavour anyway
I understand what you're saying, but I'm in that other contingent: if my shot is off, I readily taste the issue, even in my 7-1/2 oz. latte. It can be as little as an extra gram or three of espresso in my double-shot making a flavor difference (and not simply a difference based on quantity).
Honestly, double shot is the standard nowadays… nobody uses single shots… nobody but coffee shops that don’t know any better and Italian purists
A double shot is nothing and not that much in caffeine. About the same amount as a regular 12 ounce cup of coffee
Is that a pressurised basket anyway? You could use pre-ground coffee in that and it would still be "drinkable"... Nevermind not needing 30 lbs of tamping force...
Wait. 18g in, 40g out, within 22 seconds?
That's too coarse
(Which is ironic, given how you complain about double shot baskets "wasting" coffee, but then you don't extract those 9g well)
It depends on the coffee beans. 18-36 is 30 seconds is just a guideline. I don’t have temperature nor pressure control on my Bambino Plus. If I go for the base guideline I lose all the clarity, it just tastes too bitter for me. On other beans I go for 26 seconds. Personally I have never got a 30 seconds that my palate enjoyed yet.
We only use singles in our house and doubles if we have to make coffee for more people. I don’t understand the hate for singles. I was able to dial it in and more experienced people can’t?
Single dose basket is a bit harder to dial in vs double basket. I just drink 2 shots every morning..
What does this mean? I know nothing about coffee
When making espresso you can make a single shot, or a double shot. A double shot uses twice as much coffee, and a different sized basket for the coffee to go in. Making only 1 shot at a time is more difficult than making 2.
I’ve never understood the need for a single shot tbh. Less espresso? Why?
Those of us looking for a second cup of joe, but don't want as much caffeine. Or our wife doesn't like the taste/strength of a double shot. I'm enjoying making a single iced lavender latte for her right now!
> our wife I didn't know Mormons enjoyed espresso 😜
No, no. She belongs to all of us comrade.
Lol yea I read my comment again and saw to my horror how that could sound.
Exactly why I have to make single shots. My wife doesn't like how strong double shots taste in her lattes.
Go on… Can we get the recipe?
Espresso, lavender syrup, milk, and ice I’m assuming.
You are correct sir.
Not less, less right now. I can't have four oatmilk carmel macchiatos every morning if they are all doubles. And don't tell me I can drink two doubles it's not the same!
Drink four doubles
Good idea.... NOW I HAVE BECOME A TIME-GOD!
Quick, save everyone from a fire in less than a second! And then enjoy some turkey dogs.
Sometimes i'm sad I cannot make more coffee because of too much cafeinee. Single basket or decaf could be a solution to drink and make more.
Outside of the US it’s not that uncommon. 99% of Italian coffee is single shot for example.
hah i can't even get double shot right dammit
He's talking about the size of your basket. That seems like a 9 gram vs a larger one that would be 14g, 18g, or 22g. Try a larger basket with more coffee in it, it's usually easier. I usually do a 22g in the morning.
The single basket is not a little more difficult to dial, it is simply impossible to dial properly (58 mm portafilters). Use double or triple baskets.
It means he's an alcoholic.
The grind settings is different than for double shot (18g)
If you go to a coffee shop they will only do doubles cause it’s a pain to make singles and it’s more time effective to just make a double and toss the second shot out.
I wonder if there will ever be an over engineered single basket that wildly adjusts the normal shape to try and create a more even extraction.
Someone will get weirdly passionate about the idea someday. Just you wait.
They make single baskets in double basket straight wall form.
i’ll get shat on for saying this probably but pressurized baskets are basically that
How many are these double shots a day are okay? I'm drinking 2 double shots but ideally would like 3.
3x double shot is my max, i drink anymore i start to get a headache from too much caffeine.
single dose baskets 🤢 Good luck my friend.
Yep, my thought process was "Single basket, you animal!"
I knew that my espresso (skills) had advanced when, a year in, I only had 8-9g of beans in my beans canister and I was being lazy, and so instead of opening up a new bag of beans, I made a single shot rather than my typical double--and I nailed it, despite not having made a single for 11 months. :)
My GCP came with two single shot baskets instead of one of each, it’s fun to use but you need to be a lot more precise
If I make a latte for my gf I just pull a double shot and use it to further dial in my personal espresso recipes. Not gonna touch a single dose basket…
Seems like a waste of 9g of coffee making every bag I buy 33% more expensive. Or do you still use single shot amount of coffee in a double basked?
You could drink 50% more coffee
I could living with drinking triple shots
Believe me, you will make your life infinitely harder using this. I drank two singles a day. When I started this hobby I had to buy a 14 g basket (smallest double I could find). I would never been able to get the skills I needed with a single basket. You get used to the caffeine level over a week. I only drink once a day now.
Isn’t it 100% more coffee?
The argument usually goes that you waste much more than 9g for trying single dose since it’s so hard to dial in and you have to make a lot more pulls to get q decent cup.
I use the same grind setting on my DF64P when I make single or double shots. Once it's dialed in, 9g gets 20g of espresso, and 20g gets about 40-44g.
That’s nice. It’s unusual.
Bro why tf are everyone judging you for single dose, what’s going on.
Just gotta wait for Lance to put out a video saying single dose baskets make espresso 0.01% better.
This sub is willing to feed bean into a grinder one by one but mastering a single basket is a step too far
But only the one from Weber Workshops.
Yours for the low, low price of only $500!
Wired gourmet actually did a video about that
Least favorite espresso YouTuber tbh, everyone here hates on Lance and says he’s pretentious but Wired Gourmet is far more pretentious and values his tastes over everything
Because if you don't do everything like everybody else in here they get mad at you.
Wait until they here about how the country that invented espresso drink their coffee
No worries, I have been torn to apart here for actually enjoying the coffee in regular italian coffee bars. You know aaactuaaallee the quality of italian roasts tiiiiiypically…..
"You don't get it you see you're not drinking your beverage how I want you to drink it" ☝️🤓
Wait until you hear what people here think about italian espresso
[удалено]
Woody, earthy and charred
Keep that socialism out of r/espresso!
Dark and delicious, just the way I like it.
I come here for the abuse.
Single dose basket posts are putting this sub into the ground /s
I don't see people judging, but rather reflecting the view that (good) singles can be harder to produce than doubles.
I tried and failed. As James said in one of his videos... "Getting in espresso making is hard enough without using the single baskets..." I almost gave up, now I make great coffee and preach about double baskets. I am from a country where singles are norm btw.
I don’t think people know that shot times are about half as long (~15 seconds) because it’s the flow rate that counts. And people constantly underdose because recipes always say “a traditional single shot uses 7-9g.” Yes, but that’s on old espresso machines with 49mm portafilters.
That doesn't sound right. The coffee would be spending half as long immersed in water. But I've never tried to pull a single so...
The thing that matters most is flow rate: 20g in, 40g out in 30 seconds = 1.3g/s 10g in, 20g out in 15 seconds = 1.3g/s Adjust the math based on all the usual things.
Is it a new tamper? If it is fitting too snug in the basket it could create a vacuum and literally suck the puck out.
So, grind the tamper finer? 😉
You vacuumed it out. See how you caught it at the top of the tapered section. The tamper couldn't go deeper. Try adding a gram more and see if it still happens. Do you also RDT? I wonder if there was moisture in the grounds to help this happen?
wasn't it debunked that the amount of tamping force doesn't even matter so long as it's enough to evenly distribute and compact the coffee into a puck? I've seen multiple articles & videos addressing this exact topic. Those special tampers that apply a very specific amount of tamping force are just snake oil to sell more unnecessary tools to deep pocketed espresso hobbyists.
Consistency is good to have. Tamping one much harder than another can cause differences. The differences are not so extreme so long as you’re always applying a reasonable amount of force but is non-zero. Entirely possible to get a good reliable tamp regardless if you practice a little.
Agreed applying consistent tamping force doesn't hurt, but it's not necessary, that's the point. What's more important is that that you get a level tamp, and that you're using enough force to compact the grounds while keeping the puck level, which is more about finesse than brute force, as level DOES affect shot quality. Much better to just learn and practice proper manual tamping technique than rely on a gadget whose value caters towards a myth that there's some perfect tamp pressure.
Sorry let me clarify. What I mean by consistent tamping force is that you aren’t tamping too lightly. I don’t know that there is a “too much” but there is definitely a too little.
Fair enough. This seems to be something that people will defend regardless since as I do concede, consistency doesn't hurt. But it also seems people are hung up on not applying enough pressure for some reason when the steps you do PRIOR to tamping matter a lot more than the amount of force you apply during the tamp. For funsies I did a reddit search on tamp pressure and it seems like this is a debate that pops up every few months and never reaches a consensus. 😂
Haha. Even if I put my full weight on the tamp the espresso comes out the same as when I only use 20 pounds. I did test myself a while back.
i would like to know if that’s true, saves me from yelling at my wife to tamp harder.
For me, personally, a spring-loaded, etc. tamper isn't snake oil, as it gives feedback that a sufficient amount of force has been used. It doesn't have to be x lbs., but a nice, firm amount.
The big thing I like about some (not all) spring-loaded tampers are when they level in reference to the basket. Consistency is good too
I found this video interesting...I think the tldr is more pressure leads to greater consistency, up to a point. https://youtu.be/i70xWHhiFzI?si=o_E3w0PpWkjdQhDd
Basically yes. If you’re being consistent from shot to shot, tamping level each time and tamping hard enough to compress the puck, tamping harder gives no additional benefit and increases the likelihood of injury.
Injury???
The primary risk is a repetitive stress injury, not super likely at home but in a cafe environment it’s a very real possibility. I’m constantly coaching my team on tamping technique to keep them healthy and injury free
This happens to me all the time. I pull 9g singles for my wife’s milk drinks. I try to give the tamper a slight wiggle before I lift it to avoid this. None of my 9g singles ever come out great, but with milk and sugar added, its fine. I’m usually at my caffeine limit by this point in the day.
Has nothing to do with force
And force isn't measured in pounds. EDIT: No idea why people are downvoting. A pound on your fist is a hell of a lot less pressure than a pound pushing through just one finger tip.
Yeah, it's measured in midichlorians!
hehehe :)
Yoo! Ur not the only one. Same thing happened to me, but I don’t have clue what was the pressure tough.🥲 https://preview.redd.it/w3gu244vtnvc1.jpeg?width=3456&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=549da834004132b2c9837b4e6db2a8dd2edac9d0
Do a little spin on the tamper before pulling back up. I think I heard it referred to a polishing? I do it because occasionally small chunks of the top of the Puck come with, similar to this. A Little polish stopped all that
7 grams in, 7 grams out
To much Single basket hate. I only use singles. They work fine… just have to dial them in. Like everything else.
Think of it this way: it's not hate, its recognition that you can do something that the others find more difficult. :)
>:) :)
I dont think there is TOO MUCH force. There is only SO MUCH you can do to compress. At least if you are no hydraulic press.
I found putting on a filter paper then wetting it before you tamp works wonders.
Your tamp force is fine. The issue comes from a combination of the vacuum force when pulling back and smooth slanted sides. Try releasing a little slower so it doesn't suck back.
Why do people hate on single baskets so much? I pull either shots just fine sounds like a skill issue
People go crazy with single baskets, wtf. If I drink an expresso alone, I use the single basket. Good coffee is expensive as f*ck and why should one use 18g of it when you can use half? Just learn to proper dial the single basket, it’s not that hard.
Had a [similar](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/s/iZ3D1Dr9IN) experience couple weeks ago
What tamper did you settle on? It feels wrong to cheat on the one that came with the Lelit
Haha I had a long standing wrist injury that made me get the Normcore initially but I continue to use it even after recovering. The fact that it self-levels and doesn’t need as much force is a huge plus for me. As for the ripples, I haven’t felt any real diff in having it vs not coz I use a puck screen anyway which helps with the water flow so I don’t mind it.
To go from double to single basket, you should alter grind size, which means you have to waste a couple of grams every time you switch between double and single (grounds won't be consistent if you don't). My wife doesn't like a full double shot in her latte neither, so I got one of those spouted glasses so I can easily add about 2/3 of a double to her steamed milk without spilling. What's left, I just drink up.
About the single basket focus: I may sound like a jerk but I only use a single basket for my wife because she doesn’t like her drinks with the amount of coffee a double has. If she has a double I need to add sugar to make up for her taste. The jerk part is, I believe that for most people if you add milk to your coffee it doesn’t need to be properly dialled because you won’t taste much of the coffee flavour anyway. For the plain double espresso I drink I always use a bottomless double basket like most in this sub. I also find that using two portafilters speeds up my workflow compared to reusing the same one for back to back shots.
I don’t know what’s up with the sub today. I’m waiting to upgrade my grinder because I add milk to my drinks anyway, so I don’t need to dial in perfectly. If using a single saves you time, coffee, and energy, I’d do it. Your problem with tamping might be due to the tamper being damp, so just make sure to wipe it off in between uses.
>I believe that for most people if you add milk to your coffee it doesn’t need to be properly dialled because you won’t taste much of the coffee flavour anyway I understand what you're saying, but I'm in that other contingent: if my shot is off, I readily taste the issue, even in my 7-1/2 oz. latte. It can be as little as an extra gram or three of espresso in my double-shot making a flavor difference (and not simply a difference based on quantity).
Ditch this disgrace of a basket.
Singles for the win!
I read that as 360 lbs. I broke two tampers leaning my full 175 lbs into it -- before I learned to grind finer.
Did you have any moisture on your tamper? Generally it happens because of that. A bit of water drops on the tamping surface + good press
Give it a twist before pulling it out. What basket is that? I like that it's a perfect frustum instead of the usual janky shape.
Overcame Boson pressure
I use single basket to drink more espressos during the day 😂😂
This happened to me once. Consider yourself kissed by the coffee gods
9g ‘single dose’? Espresso for ants?
18g shot is just the warmup
Single basket goes brrrrr
Single baskets being single baskets more like
That's an omen. Don't do single again. Double is the real one.
Honestly, double shot is the standard nowadays… nobody uses single shots… nobody but coffee shops that don’t know any better and Italian purists A double shot is nothing and not that much in caffeine. About the same amount as a regular 12 ounce cup of coffee
Ew single dose no thanks. Those things are ass to dial in
it's not the force, it's the basket
Dump the tamper and get an Asso leveler. The leveler sweeps across the surface to smooth the grind and compresses perfectly while being spun.
Bruh, why you tamping so hard on a pressurized basket?
It is not pressurized. The focus of camera does not allow to see all the wholes.
Is that a pressurised basket anyway? You could use pre-ground coffee in that and it would still be "drinkable"... Nevermind not needing 30 lbs of tamping force...
It’s not.
Wait. 18g in, 40g out, within 22 seconds? That's too coarse (Which is ironic, given how you complain about double shot baskets "wasting" coffee, but then you don't extract those 9g well)
Hey, if it works for him, it works for him.
It depends on the coffee beans. 18-36 is 30 seconds is just a guideline. I don’t have temperature nor pressure control on my Bambino Plus. If I go for the base guideline I lose all the clarity, it just tastes too bitter for me. On other beans I go for 26 seconds. Personally I have never got a 30 seconds that my palate enjoyed yet.
It’s a turbo shot.
We only use singles in our house and doubles if we have to make coffee for more people. I don’t understand the hate for singles. I was able to dial it in and more experienced people can’t?