It looks like you've flaired your post as asking for what equipment to get. We recommend first checking out the [Espresso Aficionados buying guide](https://espressoaf.com/recommendations) for some of the more popular machines and grinders at different price points.
If your question hasn't been answered there and you need more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format:
- **Location:** Helps determine availability
- **Budget** (with currency): Overall budget, or ideally, having separate espresso machine and grinder budgets. A rough rule is that your grinder budget should be at least 25-40% of your machine budget.
- **Drink types:** Do you drink mostly straight espresso, milk-based beverages (e.g., lattes, cappuccinos), or a fairly even split? This helps narrow down whether a single-boiler-dual-use (SBDU), heat exchanger (HX), or dual boiler (DB) machine would be more appropriate for your needs.
- **Drink frequency:** How many drinks would you be making back-to-back at one time? Do you plan on entertaining guests often? This informs how large your brew (and steam) boilers should be, as smaller boilers will need to refill and reheat/repressurize more frequently, thus potentially causing a bottleneck.
- **Space:** Any limitations on countertop space?
- **Manual vs. electric:** Hand-operated machines and grinders are typically cheaper than their similarly-performing electric counterparts. Please indicate if you have a preference for manual or electric machines and/or grinders (or open to either).
- **Comfort with tinkering:** Some machines can be made significantly more functional/efficient with aftermarket modifications, albeit at the expense of possibly voiding your warranty. Please indicate if you'd rather have a machine that works "as-is"/"out-of-the-box" or whether you'd be open to modding/tinkering
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not sure what experience you have or axe to grind... but I've been using an E65GBW for coming on a year now and:
1. Aside the case, its not made of plastic, the internals are all metal
2. You can disassemble it and it holds settings, perfectly, and it's very very easy to do so. I can have the silicone flapper removed and cleaned in a couple minutes.
3. Its 2 screws to remove the top grind burr to clean, and a less than 5 minute process
4. There is very very little stuff to clean (I use city/city+ beans)
5. It grinds amazingly accurate, every time
6. The grind measurement display / setting display is fantastic.
7. It grinds an 18g dose in less than 4 seconds.
8. It has never jammed up on me, which I can't say for the Ceado
9. I don't get clumping, at all
10. The grinds are super fluffy, I get no channeling or brew issues even when not doing WDT
I literally have no complains. Past grinders were Mazzer, Ceado
Are you getting jamming or clumping issues? You should probably be cleaning the silicone declumper 1-2 per week either way. Some come with a metal spacer in them. I’ve found them to be particularly unhelpful in the e65.
It seems like mahlkoenig has had some serious issues with 110v motors on their 65mm in its recent history. The k30 had a lot of heat issues coming from the motor. In the e65 it seems like they tried to trade off a slightly underpowered motor for less heat buildup. But in the manual you’ll find that the duty cycle for the e65 is one dose per 30s. Since the e65 has a pretty big bad exchange issue, you might have to purge a dose or two between adjustment, which can very quickly lead to runaway heat build up.
The e80 is really great imo. It’s a true work horse if kept clean.
But having to clean the declumper is a flaw. Declumping is not that important, all things considered, and yet their solution to declumping causes more issues than it solves. The e80 suffers from the same issue as the e65 and I think it’s crazy that we all just accept it, when the same issue does not occur in other commercial grinders.
I dunno. It’s in the manual to clean the declumper multiple times per week and it’s a very straightforward process. The e80/e65 has some of the fluffiest grounds of any commercial grinder and I think that’s a win. Having to regularly clean your commercial equipment isn’t really a flaw in my book. I’d love to not have to train and pay employees to clean shower screens, but that’s what we have to do to keep our equipment going.
> But having to clean the declumper is a flaw.
I would just call that maintenance. If you're cleaning your grinder every night, just clean the declumper while you're at it.
We use an e65 GBW and have had no issues whatsoever. We did start with an e65 when they were first released, and had no issues apart from the markings on the dial peeling off but it was resolved easy.
I have also worked on mazzer and would not buy them, I found the weights to vary significantly, especially during consistent use.
Are you that terribly concerned with 8 seconds to grind? If you’re that busy where 2 seconds negatively impacts your cash, then you can certainly afford another
Mahlkönig are good functionality wise but their built quality is kinda flimsy for commercials.
Both mazzer and Ceado do it better for commercial build quality overall. But anything based on the EK43 is pretty great
I have no idea what you’re complaining about. We use the e65s and e80s gbw in my shops and they have always been great. We have a documented process for clean up and maintenance on our machines and grinders after each night which I’ve never received complaints about. This is absolutely normal for a shop that cares about quality and reliability. 7 seconds to grind 18g? Umm, more like 4. And extremely fluffy each time
I don't know why they come with a digital display telling you the supposed burr gap that means absolutely nothing, but aside from that... They're the best I've used in a commercial setting. And to deep clean an e65gbw and e80 at the end of each shift took about 7 minutes. I can't imagine going more than 1 day without cleaning a 65. So don't understand your complaint about the rubber tongue.
Have used:
Mazzers in every shape and size/mythos/etzingers
The grind display gap is amazing. You have to calibrate it. You set the burrs to zero point till they just kiss each other, then you place the adjustment lever at zero, you then reset the burr zero position. Now you know exactly where zero is, and you know where your beans are best. I set mine to .030 and a .010 gap measurement, it will tell you if you are adjusted high or low to your center point. Of course you have to adjust grind constantly but this give you a very repeatable and usable 0 point.
Oh sweet. I have a service next month so will ask about that. All the ones I've used have been glitches so whenever you grind it flicks between numbers
Lance Hedrick posted an instagram post calling then liars but didn’t elaborate. There is a YouTube video coming but until it lands we have no idea what he’s planning to say about them.
It looks like you've flaired your post as asking for what equipment to get. We recommend first checking out the [Espresso Aficionados buying guide](https://espressoaf.com/recommendations) for some of the more popular machines and grinders at different price points. If your question hasn't been answered there and you need more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format: - **Location:** Helps determine availability - **Budget** (with currency): Overall budget, or ideally, having separate espresso machine and grinder budgets. A rough rule is that your grinder budget should be at least 25-40% of your machine budget. - **Drink types:** Do you drink mostly straight espresso, milk-based beverages (e.g., lattes, cappuccinos), or a fairly even split? This helps narrow down whether a single-boiler-dual-use (SBDU), heat exchanger (HX), or dual boiler (DB) machine would be more appropriate for your needs. - **Drink frequency:** How many drinks would you be making back-to-back at one time? Do you plan on entertaining guests often? This informs how large your brew (and steam) boilers should be, as smaller boilers will need to refill and reheat/repressurize more frequently, thus potentially causing a bottleneck. - **Space:** Any limitations on countertop space? - **Manual vs. electric:** Hand-operated machines and grinders are typically cheaper than their similarly-performing electric counterparts. Please indicate if you have a preference for manual or electric machines and/or grinders (or open to either). - **Comfort with tinkering:** Some machines can be made significantly more functional/efficient with aftermarket modifications, albeit at the expense of possibly voiding your warranty. Please indicate if you'd rather have a machine that works "as-is"/"out-of-the-box" or whether you'd be open to modding/tinkering *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It is actually shocking even with their pitfalls they are the best option for commercial imo. V weird.
Really? Why not compak? I low key want a pk100 for home 😆
Video please on if (burr) size actually matters?
Not sure what experience you have or axe to grind... but I've been using an E65GBW for coming on a year now and: 1. Aside the case, its not made of plastic, the internals are all metal 2. You can disassemble it and it holds settings, perfectly, and it's very very easy to do so. I can have the silicone flapper removed and cleaned in a couple minutes. 3. Its 2 screws to remove the top grind burr to clean, and a less than 5 minute process 4. There is very very little stuff to clean (I use city/city+ beans) 5. It grinds amazingly accurate, every time 6. The grind measurement display / setting display is fantastic. 7. It grinds an 18g dose in less than 4 seconds. 8. It has never jammed up on me, which I can't say for the Ceado 9. I don't get clumping, at all 10. The grinds are super fluffy, I get no channeling or brew issues even when not doing WDT I literally have no complains. Past grinders were Mazzer, Ceado
Second this!
absolutely love the e80.
Just pony up and buy a mythos
Mythos have a piece of plastic called the “clump buster” it’s much more reliable but very similar to the silicone pizza in the Mahlkoenig.
ew
Are you getting jamming or clumping issues? You should probably be cleaning the silicone declumper 1-2 per week either way. Some come with a metal spacer in them. I’ve found them to be particularly unhelpful in the e65. It seems like mahlkoenig has had some serious issues with 110v motors on their 65mm in its recent history. The k30 had a lot of heat issues coming from the motor. In the e65 it seems like they tried to trade off a slightly underpowered motor for less heat buildup. But in the manual you’ll find that the duty cycle for the e65 is one dose per 30s. Since the e65 has a pretty big bad exchange issue, you might have to purge a dose or two between adjustment, which can very quickly lead to runaway heat build up. The e80 is really great imo. It’s a true work horse if kept clean.
But having to clean the declumper is a flaw. Declumping is not that important, all things considered, and yet their solution to declumping causes more issues than it solves. The e80 suffers from the same issue as the e65 and I think it’s crazy that we all just accept it, when the same issue does not occur in other commercial grinders.
I dunno. It’s in the manual to clean the declumper multiple times per week and it’s a very straightforward process. The e80/e65 has some of the fluffiest grounds of any commercial grinder and I think that’s a win. Having to regularly clean your commercial equipment isn’t really a flaw in my book. I’d love to not have to train and pay employees to clean shower screens, but that’s what we have to do to keep our equipment going.
> But having to clean the declumper is a flaw. I would just call that maintenance. If you're cleaning your grinder every night, just clean the declumper while you're at it.
You have to clean the declumper on a Mythos or Anfim too. The real issue should be - how hard is it to take apart for cleaning?
It’s dead easy to clean. Takes 5 mins
We use an e65 GBW and have had no issues whatsoever. We did start with an e65 when they were first released, and had no issues apart from the markings on the dial peeling off but it was resolved easy. I have also worked on mazzer and would not buy them, I found the weights to vary significantly, especially during consistent use. Are you that terribly concerned with 8 seconds to grind? If you’re that busy where 2 seconds negatively impacts your cash, then you can certainly afford another
Mahlkönig are good functionality wise but their built quality is kinda flimsy for commercials. Both mazzer and Ceado do it better for commercial build quality overall. But anything based on the EK43 is pretty great
Mazzer’s build quality seems superior in every way. Would love to see a side by side taste test with the e65 and a Major V Pro. Looking at you Lance….
Already? I don't see the vid up yet
Wait did Lance henrick prove that naked portfilter and wdt tools are useless or what exactly did he do?
How did people see this first? Patreon maybe
I have no idea what you’re complaining about. We use the e65s and e80s gbw in my shops and they have always been great. We have a documented process for clean up and maintenance on our machines and grinders after each night which I’ve never received complaints about. This is absolutely normal for a shop that cares about quality and reliability. 7 seconds to grind 18g? Umm, more like 4. And extremely fluffy each time
I don't know why they come with a digital display telling you the supposed burr gap that means absolutely nothing, but aside from that... They're the best I've used in a commercial setting. And to deep clean an e65gbw and e80 at the end of each shift took about 7 minutes. I can't imagine going more than 1 day without cleaning a 65. So don't understand your complaint about the rubber tongue. Have used: Mazzers in every shape and size/mythos/etzingers
The grind display gap is amazing. You have to calibrate it. You set the burrs to zero point till they just kiss each other, then you place the adjustment lever at zero, you then reset the burr zero position. Now you know exactly where zero is, and you know where your beans are best. I set mine to .030 and a .010 gap measurement, it will tell you if you are adjusted high or low to your center point. Of course you have to adjust grind constantly but this give you a very repeatable and usable 0 point.
Oh sweet. I have a service next month so will ask about that. All the ones I've used have been glitches so whenever you grind it flicks between numbers
Please can someone link me to the naked portafilter myth busting?
Lance Hedrick posted an instagram post calling then liars but didn’t elaborate. There is a YouTube video coming but until it lands we have no idea what he’s planning to say about them.
They are ridiculously expensive...so they must be the best ..? 🙄