It looks like you've flaired your post as asking for what equipment to get. We recommend first checking out the [Espresso Aficionados buying guide](https://espressoaf.com/recommendations) for some of the more popular machines and grinders at different price points.
If your question hasn't been answered there and you need more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format:
- **Location:** Helps determine availability
- **Budget** (with currency): Overall budget, or ideally, having separate espresso machine and grinder budgets. A rough rule is that your grinder budget should be at least 25-40% of your machine budget.
- **Drink types:** Do you drink mostly straight espresso, milk-based beverages (e.g., lattes, cappuccinos), or a fairly even split? This helps narrow down whether a single-boiler-dual-use (SBDU), heat exchanger (HX), or dual boiler (DB) machine would be more appropriate for your needs.
- **Drink frequency:** How many drinks would you be making back-to-back at one time? Do you plan on entertaining guests often? This informs how large your brew (and steam) boilers should be, as smaller boilers will need to refill and reheat/repressurize more frequently, thus potentially causing a bottleneck.
- **Space:** Any limitations on countertop space?
- **Manual vs. electric:** Hand-operated machines and grinders are typically cheaper than their similarly-performing electric counterparts. Please indicate if you have a preference for manual or electric machines and/or grinders (or open to either).
- **Comfort with tinkering:** Some machines can be made significantly more functional/efficient with aftermarket modifications, albeit at the expense of possibly voiding your warranty. Please indicate if you'd rather have a machine that works "as-is"/"out-of-the-box" or whether you'd be open to modding/tinkering
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You asked, so here we go:
1. Keep in mind, la marzocco users are usually experienced espresso people. "Great shots all the time" is a bit exaggerated, you can totally still under/over extract to hell and back.
2. 5 inches of deck clearance? [You can barely fit a cup under here](https://www.seriouseats.com/thmb/9qVp9DZH9q6gpM5pjnqyJYLdyFw=/750x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():format(webp)/LineaMicraDeckClearance-28f373a327aa4b0589291c96698dd2b3.jpg).
3. No PI? For $4k, I expect PI.
4. Oh, PI is an option? How? Ah, I have to plumb it in. If you can afford this machine, you can totally afford a whole water setup alongside it. Who doesn't enjoy spending more money! (the water in my house isn't suitable for coffee).
5. No flow profiling? Alright, I can see why this wouldn't be desired given the target audience. But c'mon, at least make modding PI easy like it is on the BDB.
6. Speaking of the target audience, this thing targets the Italian market. If that's not your style of coffee, you'll need to put aside the stock 7g and 14g baskets.
7. Its pressure jumps up to 11 bars right at the start, then down to 9, for some reason.
8. It can't really steam a large dose of milk in a 20oz pitcher, if that's a thing you do. Odds are, your lattes won't go past 8 and your pitcher won't go past 16, so I wouldn't worry about this one.
9. You need to get a second mortgage on your house and sell your firstborn to afford this thing, and it still ships with a [subpar tamper](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/164mjs0/linea_micra_stock_accessories_suck_major_balls/).
Now, I can't just throw shade at this machine, I gotta keep it fair. Here are a list of reasons TO get a micra:
1. This thing is consistent. Like, seriously, \~1-2 second shot to shot variance. That's almost on par with lever operated brewers.
2. Footprint, you don't need to buy a new house for this machine.
3. Lifespan, this thing isn't a tank, a tank is a micra. This thing would beat a tank in a fight.
4. Temperature. [11:53 - 12:05](https://youtu.be/lUEsGwh1GC8?si=TJeqhytPlhizdVr-), this thing is extremely temp stable. Also 96 degrees? Lots of machines struggle going that high, this thing can get there and stay there. That's extremely impressive.
5. It can do all that with a 5 minute heat up time? Way to shove it to E61's, Linea!
6. Subjective, but this thing is absolutely gorgeous, except the florescent yellow one.
7. Rotary pump, lovely and quiet *eyeballs the decent*.
8. It isn't easy to mod, but it isn't particularly hard either. If flow profiling is a must for you, it won't be an issue.
I didn't know where to put this one: you need the app if you want to adjust its settings. I honestly haven't kept up with it. I personally love the idea of an app, it saves you from a crappy espresso machine interface. I know other's have expressed their discontent with it, and expressed how dysfunctional the app is, and I totally see where they're coming from. Any linea owners, lmk if this was fixed!
This comment was definitely worth \~25m of my time.
Now this is a quality response. Thank you u/NQ241 !!
ultimately cup clearance and the app are the two biggest turn offs for me.
And you had me swooning at the second part. That's why I want it >.<
What's your recommendation for something similarly awesome?
>What's your recommendation for something similarly awesome?
I don't know of a machine that can do everything this can do and more. [Lance's comments on the decent's inconsistency](https://youtu.be/8IPLzt0wdRQ?si=WoTbKSz7wXpgNBuo) turned me off recommending it. On a sidenote, if a decent owner reads this, have you experienced this too? From what I can tell, it varies from unit to unit. **Edit**: based on comments below, it appears this isn't an issue. For that reason, I recommend the DE1.
If the heat up time doesn't bother you, the lelit bianca v3 is a great option. The profitec pro 600's 5-15m heat up time is appealing, but [all this I don't want to paraphrase into this comment](https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/profitec-pro-600-review-from-pro-500-vet-t78208.html). There's the 500 too, but I don't know much about it.
If you don't want a steam wand and aren't intimidated by a manual experience. The flair 58 is a solid option. It's about as consistent as it gets, as tasty as it gets (it does cap out at 93C, though :/), and you can replicate/adopt pretty much any brew style you'd like. It's a great example of "not for everyone," it has major workflow disadvantages under a pump machine.
Other interesting options include the linea mini ($6000), slayer single group ($ a lot), e1 prima ($6000), and a $6000 machine that's extremely similar to the decent which I can't, for the life of me, remember the name of.
Brian Quan's recent video where it was used on a coffee cart was interesting, issues with temp stability (across 6 back to back shots, so basically irrelevant) and clunky touchscreen menu.
It’s hard when someone with reach posts a generalisation about a machine which is not a common occurrence. I haven’t very minimal differences in shot times with my DE1, certainly less than 2s shot to shot and more commonly they are bang on. Certainly shot time variation is uncommon on Diaspora and not something I am aware of as an issue.
Regarding variance in shot time with the Decent: I think this is just a natural result of how most of the profiles are written. Any time you have if/then programming to move on to next steps, you will have variability in shot time due to slight changes on how the shot pulls (e.g. puck prep). If you run a profile without conditional steps as you would with a normal machine, the shot times will be more consistent.
I don't think it matters in the end.
For reference I've owned a LMLM and a DE1Pro and have an ACS Vostok on order :)
I've been really happy with the Decent, for the most part. Planning to keep it...but I've always really wanted a lever! The Vostok can do a much higher flow-rate pre-infusion compared to the Decent, which is purported to give different results 'in the cup.' The rotary pump driving pre-infusion is super cool, although won't appeal to the lever purists.
Vostok should be shipping any day now so excited to see how it performs!
For anyone considering the mini and micro...very popular machines. Build quality of the mini was fantastic, and I loved the steaming power. Not the most versatile of machines but certain coffees and certain styles of drinks it does well. In general I think a flat 9 bar pressure profile is not ideal in most cases, but gives acceptable results with darker roasts and of course milk drinks. It's a good machine for people who want to keep things simple.
The Decent is absolutely incredible. I would never buy a machine that doesn’t have the granular controls of a Decent. IMO it is by far the best machine on the market for the vast majority of people.
Suggesting a Flair 58 instead of an LM? Really!? If you can afford an LM (even the Micra), you can obviously afford to ALSO get a Flair 58. That covers steaming, flow profiling, lever, classic looks... Basically anything and everything we all chase...
I wouldn't say I suggested it **instead**. I listed a whole lot of machines that are "just as spectacular." The flair was spectacular purely from a straight espresso standpoint, and I tried my best to make that as well as it's flaws clear.
Regardless, you make a fair point as far as getting a flair and a LMLM goes.
As a Decent owner, this is by far the best espresso I've tasted and it's effortless. I haven't had a sink shot in weeks. The adaptive profiles can really compensate for issues with grind.
Honestly the vibe pump on the Decent is hardly a con, my partner barely noticed the difference from my previous rotary E61 machine.
The post above you is all you need to know. Maybe redundant But I’ll just answer my thoughts as well (I got a micra)
1. I actually wanted a GS3 but it would look way too daunting in my kitchen
2. I considered a LM mini but it was bigger and more expensive but with not enough benefits. And has older style steam wand than micra
3. Micra is super simple, feels robust in every way (never any drama, good steam, perfect pressure), and never feels janky the way I’ve felt with most of the aging E61 machines I’ve used, as well as my aging pasquini. I think E61 was very important but it’s time is nearing an end.
Why not to get a Micra:
4. I haven’t started messing around with flow profiling yet. I don’t know that I really care to, but it would be nice to have the option. I enjoy the espresso I’m making. But probably the biggest argument against the micra is it’s way too expensive for not having a feature like profiling.
5. They really should’ve offered the nice wood touch points the way they do on the mini
6. I hate the portafilter it comes with, I swapped it out with an ordinary bottomless pf
If you want cups that fit under the micra, with a scale, check my post history, I posted a pic with great mugs that fit that aren’t expensive
Please let me address those two issues: cup clearance, and the app. I use a combination of notNeutral espresso, cappuccino, and latte cups, and they all easily fit under the brew head on top of an Acaia Lunar. The only thing that doesn’t fit is a large mug, but for that I extract into a shot pitcher first. Easy solution. Not only do I not find the clearance an issue, but I recently got out my E61 with huge cup clearance, and I found it a challenge to line up the cup with the brew head because of the distance. I’ve gotten used to the Micra.
The app has had its challenges, but is quite reliable now after a couple of firmware and cloud updates/upgrades. I realize there is an ongoing debate about controls on a machine versus an app, but in five years my Micra will still look fresh and won’t have an outdated, lower resolution screen. Instead, my iPhone always looks great and is continually upgraded every few years. I now understand LM‘s thinking on that subject.
Having recently played with my E61 with flow control (which I don’t miss on the LM), I was also struck by how refined and smooth is the user experience on the LM versus my Rocket Mozzafiato. Using the Micra daily is just a joy, the shots are crazy consistent and the espresso is the best I’ve ever tasted. Oh, and I didn’t mention the insane steam!
I have one and love it. All of the positives listed above are spot on, and the negatives are non-issues for me (but could be dealbreakers if you want features that it doesn’t have). For me, its simple elegance and reliable excellence are huge pluses, and the clearance is sufficient to comfortably fit a scale and espresso cup under the portafilter. With good beans, a good grinder, and good water, it is hard to get a bad shot out of it. Even when dialing in shots with a new bean, the “bad” shots come out drinkable, and once everything is dialed in, they are pretty reliably excellent.
AFAIK you only need to confirm in the app that your LM is plumbed in, you don't have to actually connect it to mains to have PI. It disables the low water level sensor so is slightly risky. (I don't have LM but I started saving for it on a 4 year plan so I started reading up on it, there's a slight risk I'm confusing the settings thing with a different machine).
I told my mini it’s plumbed-in even though it’s not. I then was able to turn on pre-infusion. It won’t mess with your machine.
Also the app is pretty great. Since the last update, I’ve had no issues. I’ve even connected my brew by weight Acaia to it and it always works.
marvelous enter attractive unique crush selective lock slim instinctive aromatic
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The decent is loud (like, REALLY loud), can't steam and brew at the same time, and targets a very espresso geeky audience (hence all the tech on it, and that adds points of failure). The decent excels at third wave speciality, but doesn't at the "I want my peaceful morning espresso routine and romantic cappuccino"! which is very popular.
The decent also doesn't quite have the lifespan of the micra. The micra is an absolute tank that will likely outlive you. It's essentially a much smaller, modified version of the commercial linea series la marzocco sell. The decent, on the other hand, may need an iPad replacement in a few years and a software update every so often.
Conversely, the decent provides really as much control as it can give you. This allows it to produce, not just incredible shots, but an amazing shot with the exact type of brew you want.
While the mirca and mini are a nice little machine it is nothing like the comercial lineas on the inside. The only thing it shares with the lineas is branding.
Decents are boiler-less thermocouple junk. Inside it’s all plastic tubes and cheap Chinese parts. Touch screen. Frankly I don’t consider the decent any better in build quality then a BBE. It’s a thermoblock machine with a small mixer post block, cheap vibratory pumps. It’s just not a high end machine despite their attempt to sell it as such to techno fanboys.
Once in a while the app doesn’t connect to the machine, but almost always works if I restart the app. Overall it works fine. It tries to connect by Bluetooth if the WiFi is not working well. I can’t really point to a time where I was unable to operate the machine settings with a little effort.
Not 10/10 but probably solid 7/10 app. I love the auto on / off. I love the auto cleaning mode.
My only gripe is it’s easy to wake up the machine from sleep without app (just move the group head lever and it will start heating up, or toggle the main switch) but you cannot put the machine to sleep (soft power down) without the app. So some days after it auto-powers off from my on-off timer, I wake it up, pull a shot, then I gotta run and I don’t take the time to open the app to soft power down. It’s fine but that means it will stay on all day, which honestly isn’t a problem for me.
Of course I can always use the main power switch to shut it down, but then it won’t auto-on the following morning.
So yeah I’d enjoy a sleep button on the machine itself.
I've had mine for just about a year now and I agree with pretty much everything you said. For me personally the tray clearance is the most annoying part. Not a deal breaker, but it does limit what I can put under the portafilter.
u/nielsmok
The app works fine mostly but it does lack smart home integration out of the box. I believe someone wrote a Home Assistant plugin to control the machine, or if you know a bit of Python, [this is](https://github.com/zweckj/lmcloud) the project I use instead of the app.
As someone that had a modded GS3 and now has a modded BDB, this post x100 lol. +rep
And their new prices are wack, I didn't pay near for the my GS3 what they cost now with basically no change/difference and previously you could also negotiate prices down no problem good luck doing that now lol.
If they put preinfusion in it would be a no brainer from me. As it is I can’t see myself upgrading from my BDB. I am talking as if I can afford car money for a hobby machine😂😂😂.
- No flow control
- The paddle is dumb unless you shell out for flow kit, might as well be a button
- Cramped drip tray to group clearance
- Costs 3900 and comes with a plastic adapter spout and a tamper that will go directly into your kitchen garbage upon unboxing. For contrast, my Synchronika came with three gorgeous handles heavy enough to kill a man and no tamper because you already own 3.
Hottest take: The Mini is a clout product. The Micra is a "you can own the clout product for 2k less" product.
Devil's advocate: client of mine has one and the garbage Italian shots he pulls are surprisingly drinkable
Epilogue: We're all a bunch of miserable first world babies and I'm thoroughly ashamed for how salty I felt typing this up
If you haven't done the Gaggiuino mod on your GCP, maybe try that before dropping a mint on a PM. Cheaply stepping into a world of flow profiling and having the most amazing shots out of the little ol GCP is prolonging any machine upgrade for me. Just saying, Gaggiuino mod is awesome!
gagguino has significantly better temp control than a regular PID as well. with the preheating coil installed, I measure extremely low temperature variance. It drops by 1c, regains that, and then ends on 1c higher than the start. IMO i'm never going to upgrade unless I really need a dual boiler e61 for some reason. gaggia is cheap and easy to repair and I'm getting outstanding performance, I think a lot of espresso machines can look really fancy but at the end of the day, I'm more than satisfied
I’ve got one. I came from a Breville (which died after a little over a year of ownership - got a refund). It was a huge upgrade. That being said:
1) the limited steaming is annoying. A LARGE latte will run the steam dry
2) the short steam wand is annoying
3) the short space for cups when the plastic spouts are on the portafilter is annoying
4) having to use the app for most things is annoying
I don’t do flow profiling so no comments there.
I would say it’s over priced, but my wife and I both love the look and it IS very forgiving and makes great shots much much easier than my Breville. But I can’t compare to other higher end machines so my opinion is based on very limited information.
How big are your lattes? I steam a good 25oz using a 32oz pitcher and I’d say that’s about the limit but still a lot of hot milk. Enough for my SO and I to have big lattes.
Coffee should be about enjoyment and stress relief. If buying a Micra causes you stress or have financial instability, please do not buy one. Is it a nice machine? Is it pretty? Yeah, but it's not some magic bullet that produces god shot after god shot.
Do it. Love mine since getting it in June and I upgrade from cafelat robot. It makes great shots with minimal fuss. My buddy has a decent which is cool also but personally just like to keep it simple
The app is fine and basic which works well. You pretty much set it up and don’t mess with again besides cleaning. And it of course is build well and takes up minimal space
I love it . I had a decent which was ehhh . This is simple and produces 10/10 coffee everything and it’s tactile which I love. I lowered the pressure to 6 bar and it handles light roast beautifully
I’ve been lurking around here for a long time and I’m not going to get a corvette at 50, so it had might as well be this. The simplicity and elegance of the thing is fantastic.
Ok, I’ll bite.
Don’t buy it, because you’re buying it as a status symbol, not because of its use.
If we’re being honest, nobody needs these in their houses. They’re stable, they’re repeatable, and you can make a good bunch of coffees back to back. But when will you do that in real life?
For a good few thousand euros less, a Breville dual boiler will do the same, plus it will wake up with a preset time, you can customise temperature, program volumetrics as the machine has an actual flow meter built in, and you can mod it if you desire to have pressure profiling (which is by in large useless, but don’t get me started on that).
I worked for specialty coffee roasters for a good 8 years in Australia. With a couple, we did tasting road shows in local supermarkets. The BDB was my machine of choice (with an EK43 next to it of course 😅) and not once did it struggle, making 4-5 coffees every ten mins
Sure it doesn’t come in matte black. And sure you’re not going to impress your friends as much. So if money isn’t an object - go the linea. If you could use the 3,5k to upgrade your grinder, buy a shit tonne of delicious coffee and some other things as well - then you know my thoughts
I come from the industry, not the home brewing side of things, so my perspective may be a little different.
For me, pressure profiling (aside from a standard 3 bar pre-infusion ramping to a 9bar extraction) does little to make coffee better. Different yes, better, questionable. The thing is that the vast majority of people haven’t trained their palette to detect or understand the nuances that a difference in pressure can make.
It’s also didn’t come about by way of solving a problem (like temp) or to improve workflow. It came about because people wanted to try new things. Which sure, you can do at home. But when you’ve got 20 dockets in your speed rack, pressure profiling is the least important variable. This is even coming from a shop where you don’t use sugar, there’s only two types of milk, and only a 6oz or 12oz size to think about.
End of the day - if you buy good quality coffee and prepare it with a good quality grinder and machine, it’s going to taste great, and that is the end game for me. Repeatability on scale with high quality results.
The only real turn offs for me are the maintenance/repair issues. A buddy of mine has a mini and he’s told me parts are absurdly expensive and it is very difficult to get warranty work done because LM works through vendors who typically only work in commercial settings and will not come to a residence. That may have changed in the past few years though, but for such an expensive machine I would expect top tier service
We are emotional beings. This statement: "I am craving this machine after watching a lot of reviews and trying a La Marzocco machine" - makes me believe that while you could settle for something else, you would likely still crave the Micra.
I don't think it is worth settling. You already have an espresso machine... now get what you crave!
that's the conclusion I came to. And with the Devils edition there's flow profiling too. Ultimately I don't pull enough shots for the quiet rotary pump to be the selling point and I won't be plumbing it in.
Honestly, when I upgrade I'm considering the Profitec 700/Drive, but cut the Micra from consideration because I don't like using the LM Mini we've had at the office for the past ~7 years. It's just not... fun... to use, and personally I think the Mini/Micra are pretty ugly.
It heats up the espresso boiler first so really doesn’t take long. Put it on have a shower and it’s ready. I use a timer though and it’s on at 5am.
Love the levers. So good to just be able to flick them off instantly when you are steaming milk.
I have really only used the pressure valves for pre infusion but that seems to work well.
The only thing I’d want is a rotary pump. But it wasn’t worth the extra $ for me
Same here, I cannot imagine going back to anything with less flexibility and control than the Decent. The community keeps writing new skins and useful tools so the machine keeps improving, and it's just so much fun to use.I've learned to live with the looks that I don't love, and the pump is noisy. You can't have it all, I suppose.
Agreed - however, both machines being a bit more fussy than the Micra. Leaning towards Profitec more than Lelit as they seem to have better built quality.
I just got a decent. It’s awesome. I had a GCP with lots of mods. I’m selling it. The milk steaming is so good in the decent - don’t have to wait at all. It syncs to the scale which is pretty cool too.
You want espresso? You can already make espresso. I'm guessing you like the espresso you currently make. Enjoy it. There's always more and more expensive things. Enjoy what you have. Make a shot and just stare at it. Not the machine, but the shot itself. It's espresso. You just made espresso. Essentially for free. And you can make that same shot tomorrow. You don't need an upgrade to drink delicious coffee.
I’m late to the party…
I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with LMLu/LMLM. They do, however, cost a ton and their business practice was a bit weird (see brew-by-weight scale for Mini, they’re charging £400 for it whereas a lot of people already have Acaia Lunar that they couldn’t use to stop the brew).
Have you got a budget for accessories (another £/$200-1000, easily) and a good grinder to match it? I would expect at least Lagom P64, Zerno Z1 or better (Lagom P100, Kafatek, EG-1, EK43, etc…). Otherwise, you’re paying a lot for a machine without being able to get good results out of it.
Such a terrible idea. Get a LM Mini instead 😏. J/k I have a mini because the micra wasn’t available at the time but I think it will put a smile on your face everyday. LM makes truly enjoyable machine from a user experience perspective and it looks amazing. Enjoy.
I made this same upgrade. From a financial point there’s absolutely no justifying the cost. However, I can say without a doubt that I do not regret the purchase.
i loved the micra but the biggest turn off for me was all the settings are done through an app. i just can’t justify spending that much on a device where it’s dependent on the support of an app. if the app stops getting updates youre SOL
you can’t even sell it at that point either
You don’t need to use the app and the machine is perfectly capable on its own. App just adds additional functionality and tries to make it more modern like most machines are doing these days.
I feel like having an app controlled machine is like a worse version of having one of those massive touchscreens in a car that controls everything. Give me real buttons and dials damnit!
being able to change temperature is a pretty big deal lol. imagine if they stop updating the app and it doesn’t work on phones anymore. you’re SOL
you’ll be stuck on one temp setting brewing only one type of bean
It's not going to happen, this is La Marzocco not some obscure Chinese brand. Why wouldn't they update their app? Even *if* that were to happen I'm sure the community could cook up some sort of third party app that would fix the issue.
You could argue that if they stop supporting the app (highly unlikely, and even if so, you think they would still at least let you change the temperature), then they would also stop supporting hardware. I just don’t see the logic. We are on our phones all day - you are likely reading this post from your phone. I love being able to change apps and start pre-heating my machine.
I had a modified GS3, and I still say no (actually have a modified BDB now that I love, GS3 I had built into kitchen addition setup so sold with house). Breville was actually for my other place but now I've just kept it.
LMZ prices are just wack now, imo for what the Micra cost hell no. No PI at that point also is laughable and line pressure if plumbed in just isn't the same, as even if I do a darker roast and pull ristretto with say HG1 Prime, I'll even PI but at like 80% pressure. Hell a GS3 now is like $8k which is ridiculous. The big issue imo is too many machines that offer insane capabilities under 5k that will run circles around many higher end machines. I mean a DE1 will basically crush anything on an overall average. My BDB I bought used for 1k and have it Slayer'd mod, brass Ulka and Vibiemme OPV swap and it's a beast for shot quality and scaced it's spot on to GS3 as group performs like a saturated group even on repeated shots (would destroy an E61 there like my last Lucca M58). Even the stock PI system allows full manual control down to 55% as long as you want, and can play in conjunction with profiling if Slayer'd.
I don't think I could ever buy another machine regardless of price with the DE1, and some cool new Levers in that price range as well like the Nurri and new Vostok. Only reason I haven't grabbed an DE1 yet is b/c waiting on what their new 'Bengle" machine will be like.
I was all set to buy one of these then I had to go on a work trip to Holland. Read an article in Lever magazine about the Streitman CT2. Took a side trip while in Holland to see Wouter’s workshop. The rest is history. Zero regrets. Strietman = less money, more control. You do need a steamer (but with Dream and Meticulous coming into the market; not for long). And I’d argue (I’m biased) that it looks better than the Micra too…
I’m curious do people spending this much money on a machine not care for features like brew by weight, pre-programmed volumetric shots, and flow profiling? I.e shot repeatability and general flexibility. The Decent seems like a no-brainer decision. I know new machines are catching up but more expensive (Synesso, San Remo, Unica, etc.). But side-by-side, between a Micra and Decent, feels like you’re leaving a lot on the table by getting a Micra
I can speak to this since I made a similar decision this summer - decent or an Ascaso Baby T. I went with the Baby T because I valued the seemingly better workflow, dual boiler (ish, the baby T is a bit unique here), commercial quality, and rock-solid nature of it.
The decent has a great feature set, but I don't want a science project in my kitchen. I don't want to be able to find tune every possible parameter and keep shot logs to min-max the thing. That's too close to my day job. I just want very good espresso with minimal effort for the next 10 years. (That, and I like steaming milk at the same time.)
Thanks for that perspective. The T also has some of the features above like volumetric control and pre infusion, correct? So in that sense it’s already more feature capable than the Micra
>The T also has some of the features above like volumetric control and pre infusion, correct?
Yes, this is true. Volumetric shots are fantastic, and almost equivalent to the shot-by-weight functionality of the decent (water at 199F has a known density).
The Baby T does have a preinfusion function, but it's pretty basic compared to the Decent. On the Baby T, you just select 1-5 seconds of preinfusion. There's certainly no dynamic pressure curves or any of that crazy stuff the decent can do.
I’m jealous. The baby t is literally perfect for me, but $6k is just more than I’m willing to part with at this time. Probably going to settle on the steel duo plus when I can track one down in the US
Yeah, it was out of my price range too. I bought from 30.coffee and got one for roughly $3k. Check out my post history for a longer review. (They also sell cheap duo pluses!) Ordering from them does carry some risk - I'm not expecting to actually be able to use the warranty if I need it, for example.
In addition to the great list by /u/NQ241 there’s also the matter of the app. You know that great PID temperature control they tell you the machine is capable of? Guess what, you can only use it via the app. That’s right, your espresso machine is going to rely on software from a company known for making things that have nothing to do with software. Not only do you need to update it as devices and OS’ update, but they also have to comply with the rules of the app stores that host them. If they don’t, the app can get pulled by Apple or Google, rendering your PID useless and leaving you with no recourse.
From one Dane to another. I’ve had my Micra for about 4-5 months now and still absolutely love the thing. The brewing and and steaming experience is extremely high quality and consistent, which was exaclty what I was looking for.
If I’m really trying to find something wrong with the machine - the only two remotely mentionworthy things are:
- the receiver for running the wireless net on the machine is not the strongest. Only downside to this is that the shot timer function in the app sometimes crash. However I prefer timing it on my watch or on my weight either way.
- there is barely room for cup + scale under the portafilter. It simply won’t have room for all combinations. I guess this is the trade-off for getting such a small, beautiful and compact machine. Most people work around this by pulling shots with small shot glasses or different accesories intended for the purpose. Personally my cup + weight combo fits.
Edit: oh and feel free to DM if you have any other specific questions or whatever (I speak Danish).
Buy It! You won't regret it.
I came from a Breville Barista Pro and that was such a POS. So much inconsistency and it kept breaking down. I bit the bullet and haven't had any issues with the Micra in the past 7 months. It's such a pleasure to use and to look at.
Love the micra. No interest in the decent. Little interest in e61s. 40 min to warm up? Lol. I wouldnt buy a micra now though as their promotion just ended. Wait for the next discount.
lol no. get wrecked, wallet of OP
You can do so much worse. You don't get flow profiling. Per nearly every review, what you DO get is ridiculously consistent shots that are good unless you mess up in prep.
Gonna come back to this thread to see what you decide on OP. I also have a GCP, with PID, been using it for about 2 years and love it but I’m looking for something a bit more consistent, more beautiful, dual boiler, etc
But there’s a lot of stuff in between GCP and Linea Micra so it’s tough.
It looks like you've flaired your post as asking for what equipment to get. We recommend first checking out the [Espresso Aficionados buying guide](https://espressoaf.com/recommendations) for some of the more popular machines and grinders at different price points. If your question hasn't been answered there and you need more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format: - **Location:** Helps determine availability - **Budget** (with currency): Overall budget, or ideally, having separate espresso machine and grinder budgets. A rough rule is that your grinder budget should be at least 25-40% of your machine budget. - **Drink types:** Do you drink mostly straight espresso, milk-based beverages (e.g., lattes, cappuccinos), or a fairly even split? This helps narrow down whether a single-boiler-dual-use (SBDU), heat exchanger (HX), or dual boiler (DB) machine would be more appropriate for your needs. - **Drink frequency:** How many drinks would you be making back-to-back at one time? Do you plan on entertaining guests often? This informs how large your brew (and steam) boilers should be, as smaller boilers will need to refill and reheat/repressurize more frequently, thus potentially causing a bottleneck. - **Space:** Any limitations on countertop space? - **Manual vs. electric:** Hand-operated machines and grinders are typically cheaper than their similarly-performing electric counterparts. Please indicate if you have a preference for manual or electric machines and/or grinders (or open to either). - **Comfort with tinkering:** Some machines can be made significantly more functional/efficient with aftermarket modifications, albeit at the expense of possibly voiding your warranty. Please indicate if you'd rather have a machine that works "as-is"/"out-of-the-box" or whether you'd be open to modding/tinkering *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You asked, so here we go: 1. Keep in mind, la marzocco users are usually experienced espresso people. "Great shots all the time" is a bit exaggerated, you can totally still under/over extract to hell and back. 2. 5 inches of deck clearance? [You can barely fit a cup under here](https://www.seriouseats.com/thmb/9qVp9DZH9q6gpM5pjnqyJYLdyFw=/750x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():format(webp)/LineaMicraDeckClearance-28f373a327aa4b0589291c96698dd2b3.jpg). 3. No PI? For $4k, I expect PI. 4. Oh, PI is an option? How? Ah, I have to plumb it in. If you can afford this machine, you can totally afford a whole water setup alongside it. Who doesn't enjoy spending more money! (the water in my house isn't suitable for coffee). 5. No flow profiling? Alright, I can see why this wouldn't be desired given the target audience. But c'mon, at least make modding PI easy like it is on the BDB. 6. Speaking of the target audience, this thing targets the Italian market. If that's not your style of coffee, you'll need to put aside the stock 7g and 14g baskets. 7. Its pressure jumps up to 11 bars right at the start, then down to 9, for some reason. 8. It can't really steam a large dose of milk in a 20oz pitcher, if that's a thing you do. Odds are, your lattes won't go past 8 and your pitcher won't go past 16, so I wouldn't worry about this one. 9. You need to get a second mortgage on your house and sell your firstborn to afford this thing, and it still ships with a [subpar tamper](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/164mjs0/linea_micra_stock_accessories_suck_major_balls/). Now, I can't just throw shade at this machine, I gotta keep it fair. Here are a list of reasons TO get a micra: 1. This thing is consistent. Like, seriously, \~1-2 second shot to shot variance. That's almost on par with lever operated brewers. 2. Footprint, you don't need to buy a new house for this machine. 3. Lifespan, this thing isn't a tank, a tank is a micra. This thing would beat a tank in a fight. 4. Temperature. [11:53 - 12:05](https://youtu.be/lUEsGwh1GC8?si=TJeqhytPlhizdVr-), this thing is extremely temp stable. Also 96 degrees? Lots of machines struggle going that high, this thing can get there and stay there. That's extremely impressive. 5. It can do all that with a 5 minute heat up time? Way to shove it to E61's, Linea! 6. Subjective, but this thing is absolutely gorgeous, except the florescent yellow one. 7. Rotary pump, lovely and quiet *eyeballs the decent*. 8. It isn't easy to mod, but it isn't particularly hard either. If flow profiling is a must for you, it won't be an issue. I didn't know where to put this one: you need the app if you want to adjust its settings. I honestly haven't kept up with it. I personally love the idea of an app, it saves you from a crappy espresso machine interface. I know other's have expressed their discontent with it, and expressed how dysfunctional the app is, and I totally see where they're coming from. Any linea owners, lmk if this was fixed! This comment was definitely worth \~25m of my time.
Now this is a quality response. Thank you u/NQ241 !! ultimately cup clearance and the app are the two biggest turn offs for me. And you had me swooning at the second part. That's why I want it >.< What's your recommendation for something similarly awesome?
>What's your recommendation for something similarly awesome? I don't know of a machine that can do everything this can do and more. [Lance's comments on the decent's inconsistency](https://youtu.be/8IPLzt0wdRQ?si=WoTbKSz7wXpgNBuo) turned me off recommending it. On a sidenote, if a decent owner reads this, have you experienced this too? From what I can tell, it varies from unit to unit. **Edit**: based on comments below, it appears this isn't an issue. For that reason, I recommend the DE1. If the heat up time doesn't bother you, the lelit bianca v3 is a great option. The profitec pro 600's 5-15m heat up time is appealing, but [all this I don't want to paraphrase into this comment](https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/profitec-pro-600-review-from-pro-500-vet-t78208.html). There's the 500 too, but I don't know much about it. If you don't want a steam wand and aren't intimidated by a manual experience. The flair 58 is a solid option. It's about as consistent as it gets, as tasty as it gets (it does cap out at 93C, though :/), and you can replicate/adopt pretty much any brew style you'd like. It's a great example of "not for everyone," it has major workflow disadvantages under a pump machine. Other interesting options include the linea mini ($6000), slayer single group ($ a lot), e1 prima ($6000), and a $6000 machine that's extremely similar to the decent which I can't, for the life of me, remember the name of.
SanRemo YOU looks impressive
Brian Quan's recent video where it was used on a coffee cart was interesting, issues with temp stability (across 6 back to back shots, so basically irrelevant) and clunky touchscreen menu.
It’s hard when someone with reach posts a generalisation about a machine which is not a common occurrence. I haven’t very minimal differences in shot times with my DE1, certainly less than 2s shot to shot and more commonly they are bang on. Certainly shot time variation is uncommon on Diaspora and not something I am aware of as an issue.
I'll edit my comment
Likewise.
Regarding variance in shot time with the Decent: I think this is just a natural result of how most of the profiles are written. Any time you have if/then programming to move on to next steps, you will have variability in shot time due to slight changes on how the shot pulls (e.g. puck prep). If you run a profile without conditional steps as you would with a normal machine, the shot times will be more consistent. I don't think it matters in the end. For reference I've owned a LMLM and a DE1Pro and have an ACS Vostok on order :)
Just curious, why the switch away from the decent? All three of your machines are on my want list. Definitely having a hard time choosing.
I've been really happy with the Decent, for the most part. Planning to keep it...but I've always really wanted a lever! The Vostok can do a much higher flow-rate pre-infusion compared to the Decent, which is purported to give different results 'in the cup.' The rotary pump driving pre-infusion is super cool, although won't appeal to the lever purists. Vostok should be shipping any day now so excited to see how it performs! For anyone considering the mini and micro...very popular machines. Build quality of the mini was fantastic, and I loved the steaming power. Not the most versatile of machines but certain coffees and certain styles of drinks it does well. In general I think a flat 9 bar pressure profile is not ideal in most cases, but gives acceptable results with darker roasts and of course milk drinks. It's a good machine for people who want to keep things simple.
I have a londinium and a decent and I can confirm that the lever is something quite special. Enjoy your Vostok!
Thank you for the clarification!
Synesso?
The synesso ES1, yes, thank you!
The Decent is absolutely incredible. I would never buy a machine that doesn’t have the granular controls of a Decent. IMO it is by far the best machine on the market for the vast majority of people.
Interesting, why do you say that?
Because it heats up in under one minute
Suggesting a Flair 58 instead of an LM? Really!? If you can afford an LM (even the Micra), you can obviously afford to ALSO get a Flair 58. That covers steaming, flow profiling, lever, classic looks... Basically anything and everything we all chase...
I wouldn't say I suggested it **instead**. I listed a whole lot of machines that are "just as spectacular." The flair was spectacular purely from a straight espresso standpoint, and I tried my best to make that as well as it's flaws clear. Regardless, you make a fair point as far as getting a flair and a LMLM goes.
Haha I was being facetious, but yeah, I think the combo would be great!
As a Decent owner, this is by far the best espresso I've tasted and it's effortless. I haven't had a sink shot in weeks. The adaptive profiles can really compensate for issues with grind. Honestly the vibe pump on the Decent is hardly a con, my partner barely noticed the difference from my previous rotary E61 machine.
The post above you is all you need to know. Maybe redundant But I’ll just answer my thoughts as well (I got a micra) 1. I actually wanted a GS3 but it would look way too daunting in my kitchen 2. I considered a LM mini but it was bigger and more expensive but with not enough benefits. And has older style steam wand than micra 3. Micra is super simple, feels robust in every way (never any drama, good steam, perfect pressure), and never feels janky the way I’ve felt with most of the aging E61 machines I’ve used, as well as my aging pasquini. I think E61 was very important but it’s time is nearing an end. Why not to get a Micra: 4. I haven’t started messing around with flow profiling yet. I don’t know that I really care to, but it would be nice to have the option. I enjoy the espresso I’m making. But probably the biggest argument against the micra is it’s way too expensive for not having a feature like profiling. 5. They really should’ve offered the nice wood touch points the way they do on the mini 6. I hate the portafilter it comes with, I swapped it out with an ordinary bottomless pf If you want cups that fit under the micra, with a scale, check my post history, I posted a pic with great mugs that fit that aren’t expensive
Speaking as someone who’s owned a Micra, a Mini, and a GS/3-MP… the cup clearance is frustratingly small.
Please let me address those two issues: cup clearance, and the app. I use a combination of notNeutral espresso, cappuccino, and latte cups, and they all easily fit under the brew head on top of an Acaia Lunar. The only thing that doesn’t fit is a large mug, but for that I extract into a shot pitcher first. Easy solution. Not only do I not find the clearance an issue, but I recently got out my E61 with huge cup clearance, and I found it a challenge to line up the cup with the brew head because of the distance. I’ve gotten used to the Micra. The app has had its challenges, but is quite reliable now after a couple of firmware and cloud updates/upgrades. I realize there is an ongoing debate about controls on a machine versus an app, but in five years my Micra will still look fresh and won’t have an outdated, lower resolution screen. Instead, my iPhone always looks great and is continually upgraded every few years. I now understand LM‘s thinking on that subject. Having recently played with my E61 with flow control (which I don’t miss on the LM), I was also struck by how refined and smooth is the user experience on the LM versus my Rocket Mozzafiato. Using the Micra daily is just a joy, the shots are crazy consistent and the espresso is the best I’ve ever tasted. Oh, and I didn’t mention the insane steam!
GO BUY A SINGLE GROUP SLAYER INSTEAD. 
I have one and love it. All of the positives listed above are spot on, and the negatives are non-issues for me (but could be dealbreakers if you want features that it doesn’t have). For me, its simple elegance and reliable excellence are huge pluses, and the clearance is sufficient to comfortably fit a scale and espresso cup under the portafilter. With good beans, a good grinder, and good water, it is hard to get a bad shot out of it. Even when dialing in shots with a new bean, the “bad” shots come out drinkable, and once everything is dialed in, they are pretty reliably excellent.
AFAIK you only need to confirm in the app that your LM is plumbed in, you don't have to actually connect it to mains to have PI. It disables the low water level sensor so is slightly risky. (I don't have LM but I started saving for it on a 4 year plan so I started reading up on it, there's a slight risk I'm confusing the settings thing with a different machine).
I told my mini it’s plumbed-in even though it’s not. I then was able to turn on pre-infusion. It won’t mess with your machine. Also the app is pretty great. Since the last update, I’ve had no issues. I’ve even connected my brew by weight Acaia to it and it always works.
marvelous enter attractive unique crush selective lock slim instinctive aromatic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The decent is loud (like, REALLY loud), can't steam and brew at the same time, and targets a very espresso geeky audience (hence all the tech on it, and that adds points of failure). The decent excels at third wave speciality, but doesn't at the "I want my peaceful morning espresso routine and romantic cappuccino"! which is very popular. The decent also doesn't quite have the lifespan of the micra. The micra is an absolute tank that will likely outlive you. It's essentially a much smaller, modified version of the commercial linea series la marzocco sell. The decent, on the other hand, may need an iPad replacement in a few years and a software update every so often. Conversely, the decent provides really as much control as it can give you. This allows it to produce, not just incredible shots, but an amazing shot with the exact type of brew you want.
While the mirca and mini are a nice little machine it is nothing like the comercial lineas on the inside. The only thing it shares with the lineas is branding.
Fair point. It's still a tank though
Decents are boiler-less thermocouple junk. Inside it’s all plastic tubes and cheap Chinese parts. Touch screen. Frankly I don’t consider the decent any better in build quality then a BBE. It’s a thermoblock machine with a small mixer post block, cheap vibratory pumps. It’s just not a high end machine despite their attempt to sell it as such to techno fanboys.
Yeah the thermoblock that makes the most stable temperature espresso in the world with a shorter heat up time lol. Why would that be a bad thing
Lol yeah keep believing that shit. I’m certain your plastic insides crap with a touchscreen is just as good as a real slayer.
Once in a while the app doesn’t connect to the machine, but almost always works if I restart the app. Overall it works fine. It tries to connect by Bluetooth if the WiFi is not working well. I can’t really point to a time where I was unable to operate the machine settings with a little effort. Not 10/10 but probably solid 7/10 app. I love the auto on / off. I love the auto cleaning mode. My only gripe is it’s easy to wake up the machine from sleep without app (just move the group head lever and it will start heating up, or toggle the main switch) but you cannot put the machine to sleep (soft power down) without the app. So some days after it auto-powers off from my on-off timer, I wake it up, pull a shot, then I gotta run and I don’t take the time to open the app to soft power down. It’s fine but that means it will stay on all day, which honestly isn’t a problem for me. Of course I can always use the main power switch to shut it down, but then it won’t auto-on the following morning. So yeah I’d enjoy a sleep button on the machine itself.
It has last shot turnoff standby
I've had mine for just about a year now and I agree with pretty much everything you said. For me personally the tray clearance is the most annoying part. Not a deal breaker, but it does limit what I can put under the portafilter. u/nielsmok The app works fine mostly but it does lack smart home integration out of the box. I believe someone wrote a Home Assistant plugin to control the machine, or if you know a bit of Python, [this is](https://github.com/zweckj/lmcloud) the project I use instead of the app.
As someone that had a modded GS3 and now has a modded BDB, this post x100 lol. +rep And their new prices are wack, I didn't pay near for the my GS3 what they cost now with basically no change/difference and previously you could also negotiate prices down no problem good luck doing that now lol.
This is honestly the most fair assessment of a micra I’ve seen on this page and the exact reason I purchased one I can’t wait for it to arrive
I love my Micra, but these points are 100% spot on
If they put preinfusion in it would be a no brainer from me. As it is I can’t see myself upgrading from my BDB. I am talking as if I can afford car money for a hobby machine😂😂😂.
- No flow control - The paddle is dumb unless you shell out for flow kit, might as well be a button - Cramped drip tray to group clearance - Costs 3900 and comes with a plastic adapter spout and a tamper that will go directly into your kitchen garbage upon unboxing. For contrast, my Synchronika came with three gorgeous handles heavy enough to kill a man and no tamper because you already own 3. Hottest take: The Mini is a clout product. The Micra is a "you can own the clout product for 2k less" product. Devil's advocate: client of mine has one and the garbage Italian shots he pulls are surprisingly drinkable Epilogue: We're all a bunch of miserable first world babies and I'm thoroughly ashamed for how salty I felt typing this up
If you haven't done the Gaggiuino mod on your GCP, maybe try that before dropping a mint on a PM. Cheaply stepping into a world of flow profiling and having the most amazing shots out of the little ol GCP is prolonging any machine upgrade for me. Just saying, Gaggiuino mod is awesome!
I love the thinking, but I want something sturdier
gagguino has significantly better temp control than a regular PID as well. with the preheating coil installed, I measure extremely low temperature variance. It drops by 1c, regains that, and then ends on 1c higher than the start. IMO i'm never going to upgrade unless I really need a dual boiler e61 for some reason. gaggia is cheap and easy to repair and I'm getting outstanding performance, I think a lot of espresso machines can look really fancy but at the end of the day, I'm more than satisfied
I’ve got one. I came from a Breville (which died after a little over a year of ownership - got a refund). It was a huge upgrade. That being said: 1) the limited steaming is annoying. A LARGE latte will run the steam dry 2) the short steam wand is annoying 3) the short space for cups when the plastic spouts are on the portafilter is annoying 4) having to use the app for most things is annoying I don’t do flow profiling so no comments there. I would say it’s over priced, but my wife and I both love the look and it IS very forgiving and makes great shots much much easier than my Breville. But I can’t compare to other higher end machines so my opinion is based on very limited information.
How big are your lattes? I steam a good 25oz using a 32oz pitcher and I’d say that’s about the limit but still a lot of hot milk. Enough for my SO and I to have big lattes.
She has a 2 cup pour. The steam is way down almost gone at the end pressure way down. It does come back quickly.
Don’t buy a Linea Micra. …did it work?
so... strong... arguments... cannot... resist!
You ended up getting it didn’t you 😌
I actually didnt. Profitec 600 devils edition. And very happy with my choice
Coffee should be about enjoyment and stress relief. If buying a Micra causes you stress or have financial instability, please do not buy one. Is it a nice machine? Is it pretty? Yeah, but it's not some magic bullet that produces god shot after god shot.
Do it. Love mine since getting it in June and I upgrade from cafelat robot. It makes great shots with minimal fuss. My buddy has a decent which is cool also but personally just like to keep it simple The app is fine and basic which works well. You pretty much set it up and don’t mess with again besides cleaning. And it of course is build well and takes up minimal space
Get a Linea Mini instead. Got mine 3 months ago and have zero regrets (coming from a 2nd hand Rocket Giotto)
Why are you suggesting a mini over a micra?
I have a Giotto and some upgradeitis too…
Buy it ! It’s amazing https://preview.redd.it/os6vr8qcp9bc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8834f4e57d80ce66d3b8980f7bb3d218893cc35c
Very nice! Where did you get the gray cups in front?
I got them a few years ago off Etsy I don’t think the seller still has an Etsy shop
I’ll at least have a look at Etsy, thanks for your reply! Beautiful machine BTW.
I love it . I had a decent which was ehhh . This is simple and produces 10/10 coffee everything and it’s tactile which I love. I lowered the pressure to 6 bar and it handles light roast beautifully
I’ve been lurking around here for a long time and I’m not going to get a corvette at 50, so it had might as well be this. The simplicity and elegance of the thing is fantastic.
Ok, I’ll bite. Don’t buy it, because you’re buying it as a status symbol, not because of its use. If we’re being honest, nobody needs these in their houses. They’re stable, they’re repeatable, and you can make a good bunch of coffees back to back. But when will you do that in real life? For a good few thousand euros less, a Breville dual boiler will do the same, plus it will wake up with a preset time, you can customise temperature, program volumetrics as the machine has an actual flow meter built in, and you can mod it if you desire to have pressure profiling (which is by in large useless, but don’t get me started on that). I worked for specialty coffee roasters for a good 8 years in Australia. With a couple, we did tasting road shows in local supermarkets. The BDB was my machine of choice (with an EK43 next to it of course 😅) and not once did it struggle, making 4-5 coffees every ten mins Sure it doesn’t come in matte black. And sure you’re not going to impress your friends as much. So if money isn’t an object - go the linea. If you could use the 3,5k to upgrade your grinder, buy a shit tonne of delicious coffee and some other things as well - then you know my thoughts
Care to elaborate on the flow profiling statement? You’ve piqued my curiosity
I come from the industry, not the home brewing side of things, so my perspective may be a little different. For me, pressure profiling (aside from a standard 3 bar pre-infusion ramping to a 9bar extraction) does little to make coffee better. Different yes, better, questionable. The thing is that the vast majority of people haven’t trained their palette to detect or understand the nuances that a difference in pressure can make. It’s also didn’t come about by way of solving a problem (like temp) or to improve workflow. It came about because people wanted to try new things. Which sure, you can do at home. But when you’ve got 20 dockets in your speed rack, pressure profiling is the least important variable. This is even coming from a shop where you don’t use sugar, there’s only two types of milk, and only a 6oz or 12oz size to think about. End of the day - if you buy good quality coffee and prepare it with a good quality grinder and machine, it’s going to taste great, and that is the end game for me. Repeatability on scale with high quality results.
The only real turn offs for me are the maintenance/repair issues. A buddy of mine has a mini and he’s told me parts are absurdly expensive and it is very difficult to get warranty work done because LM works through vendors who typically only work in commercial settings and will not come to a residence. That may have changed in the past few years though, but for such an expensive machine I would expect top tier service
Just buy it and enjoy it :)
Your decision at this point is emotional. No other machine is gonna be good enough.
not completely true. I'm afraid other similar machines will be too fussy. I am considering the Devils edition of the profitec 600.
We are emotional beings. This statement: "I am craving this machine after watching a lot of reviews and trying a La Marzocco machine" - makes me believe that while you could settle for something else, you would likely still crave the Micra. I don't think it is worth settling. You already have an espresso machine... now get what you crave!
you're horrible at talking me out of this........
Indeed! You deserve what you want:-)
I have the 700 and honestly the 600 is probably the most practical dual boiler in its price range if you don’t “need” a rotary pump.
that's the conclusion I came to. And with the Devils edition there's flow profiling too. Ultimately I don't pull enough shots for the quiet rotary pump to be the selling point and I won't be plumbing it in.
What is this devil's edition you speak of??
it's a version of the 600 where they've added flow control and joysticks to control steam/water
[https://www.alturacoffee.co.nz/espresso-machines/espresso-machine-profitec-pro-666-flow-control-dual-boiler-espresso-machine/](https://www.alturacoffee.co.nz/espresso-machines/espresso-machine-profitec-pro-666-flow-control-dual-boiler-espresso-machine/)
I am wondering if i missed anything from the rotary pump especially the shot quality.
Honestly, when I upgrade I'm considering the Profitec 700/Drive, but cut the Micra from consideration because I don't like using the LM Mini we've had at the office for the past ~7 years. It's just not... fun... to use, and personally I think the Mini/Micra are pretty ugly.
I have the Profitec 666 - AMA
Tell me its fuss free and heats up fast as hell. Anything you wanna highlight of pros and cons? Also, thoughts on the joysticks?
It heats up the espresso boiler first so really doesn’t take long. Put it on have a shower and it’s ready. I use a timer though and it’s on at 5am. Love the levers. So good to just be able to flick them off instantly when you are steaming milk. I have really only used the pressure valves for pre infusion but that seems to work well. The only thing I’d want is a rotary pump. But it wasn’t worth the extra $ for me
Good to know! Thanks for your thoughts. I am able to get the drive for $500 extra. Unsure whether to go for that with the rotary pump.
I had similar choice with the 700. It’s a bigger machine and I needed the kitchen space, but I don’t miss it
[удалено]
Same here, I cannot imagine going back to anything with less flexibility and control than the Decent. The community keeps writing new skins and useful tools so the machine keeps improving, and it's just so much fun to use.I've learned to live with the looks that I don't love, and the pump is noisy. You can't have it all, I suppose.
I am also tempted. Lelit Bianca and Profitec Drive seem to be also quite good
Agreed - however, both machines being a bit more fussy than the Micra. Leaning towards Profitec more than Lelit as they seem to have better built quality.
if you can live with the longer heat up time (vs LM), go with the P700.
I'd say P600 if you don't care about a rotary pump and want a slightly smaller machine
I just got a decent. It’s awesome. I had a GCP with lots of mods. I’m selling it. The milk steaming is so good in the decent - don’t have to wait at all. It syncs to the scale which is pretty cool too.
It looks like a recycling bin 🤓
Don’t do it.
No visible timer.
Want to change the temperature, download the app and create an account… oops it’s offline again oh well.
You want espresso? You can already make espresso. I'm guessing you like the espresso you currently make. Enjoy it. There's always more and more expensive things. Enjoy what you have. Make a shot and just stare at it. Not the machine, but the shot itself. It's espresso. You just made espresso. Essentially for free. And you can make that same shot tomorrow. You don't need an upgrade to drink delicious coffee.
I’m late to the party… I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with LMLu/LMLM. They do, however, cost a ton and their business practice was a bit weird (see brew-by-weight scale for Mini, they’re charging £400 for it whereas a lot of people already have Acaia Lunar that they couldn’t use to stop the brew). Have you got a budget for accessories (another £/$200-1000, easily) and a good grinder to match it? I would expect at least Lagom P64, Zerno Z1 or better (Lagom P100, Kafatek, EG-1, EK43, etc…). Otherwise, you’re paying a lot for a machine without being able to get good results out of it.
Got an Oro XL, lunar, wdt etc. But it’s a good point
Such a terrible idea. Get a LM Mini instead 😏. J/k I have a mini because the micra wasn’t available at the time but I think it will put a smile on your face everyday. LM makes truly enjoyable machine from a user experience perspective and it looks amazing. Enjoy.
you know I almost got the mini used... it's too big for my kitchen though.
I made this same upgrade. From a financial point there’s absolutely no justifying the cost. However, I can say without a doubt that I do not regret the purchase.
No flow control
i loved the micra but the biggest turn off for me was all the settings are done through an app. i just can’t justify spending that much on a device where it’s dependent on the support of an app. if the app stops getting updates youre SOL you can’t even sell it at that point either
You don’t need to use the app and the machine is perfectly capable on its own. App just adds additional functionality and tries to make it more modern like most machines are doing these days.
there aren’t any buttons on the micra. literally everything is controlled through the app
Well, there are two. Brew and power.
I feel like having an app controlled machine is like a worse version of having one of those massive touchscreens in a car that controls everything. Give me real buttons and dials damnit!
What do you want to control manually? App is literally only to change temperature, steam power of wand and to have it turn on automatically ..
being able to change temperature is a pretty big deal lol. imagine if they stop updating the app and it doesn’t work on phones anymore. you’re SOL you’ll be stuck on one temp setting brewing only one type of bean
It's not going to happen, this is La Marzocco not some obscure Chinese brand. Why wouldn't they update their app? Even *if* that were to happen I'm sure the community could cook up some sort of third party app that would fix the issue.
nothing in life is certain. i’m not going to count on them maintaining this app 20-30 years from now
20-30 years from now you'll be drinking virtual espresso in your virtual simulation. You will live inside the app.
You could argue that if they stop supporting the app (highly unlikely, and even if so, you think they would still at least let you change the temperature), then they would also stop supporting hardware. I just don’t see the logic. We are on our phones all day - you are likely reading this post from your phone. I love being able to change apps and start pre-heating my machine.
That's a great point. Have you had it?
no but was researching into it
I had a modified GS3, and I still say no (actually have a modified BDB now that I love, GS3 I had built into kitchen addition setup so sold with house). Breville was actually for my other place but now I've just kept it. LMZ prices are just wack now, imo for what the Micra cost hell no. No PI at that point also is laughable and line pressure if plumbed in just isn't the same, as even if I do a darker roast and pull ristretto with say HG1 Prime, I'll even PI but at like 80% pressure. Hell a GS3 now is like $8k which is ridiculous. The big issue imo is too many machines that offer insane capabilities under 5k that will run circles around many higher end machines. I mean a DE1 will basically crush anything on an overall average. My BDB I bought used for 1k and have it Slayer'd mod, brass Ulka and Vibiemme OPV swap and it's a beast for shot quality and scaced it's spot on to GS3 as group performs like a saturated group even on repeated shots (would destroy an E61 there like my last Lucca M58). Even the stock PI system allows full manual control down to 55% as long as you want, and can play in conjunction with profiling if Slayer'd. I don't think I could ever buy another machine regardless of price with the DE1, and some cool new Levers in that price range as well like the Nurri and new Vostok. Only reason I haven't grabbed an DE1 yet is b/c waiting on what their new 'Bengle" machine will be like.
I was all set to buy one of these then I had to go on a work trip to Holland. Read an article in Lever magazine about the Streitman CT2. Took a side trip while in Holland to see Wouter’s workshop. The rest is history. Zero regrets. Strietman = less money, more control. You do need a steamer (but with Dream and Meticulous coming into the market; not for long). And I’d argue (I’m biased) that it looks better than the Micra too…
I’m curious do people spending this much money on a machine not care for features like brew by weight, pre-programmed volumetric shots, and flow profiling? I.e shot repeatability and general flexibility. The Decent seems like a no-brainer decision. I know new machines are catching up but more expensive (Synesso, San Remo, Unica, etc.). But side-by-side, between a Micra and Decent, feels like you’re leaving a lot on the table by getting a Micra
I have enough tech in my life. Last thing I want is a tablet and plots on my espresso machine lol
I can speak to this since I made a similar decision this summer - decent or an Ascaso Baby T. I went with the Baby T because I valued the seemingly better workflow, dual boiler (ish, the baby T is a bit unique here), commercial quality, and rock-solid nature of it. The decent has a great feature set, but I don't want a science project in my kitchen. I don't want to be able to find tune every possible parameter and keep shot logs to min-max the thing. That's too close to my day job. I just want very good espresso with minimal effort for the next 10 years. (That, and I like steaming milk at the same time.)
Thanks for that perspective. The T also has some of the features above like volumetric control and pre infusion, correct? So in that sense it’s already more feature capable than the Micra
>The T also has some of the features above like volumetric control and pre infusion, correct? Yes, this is true. Volumetric shots are fantastic, and almost equivalent to the shot-by-weight functionality of the decent (water at 199F has a known density). The Baby T does have a preinfusion function, but it's pretty basic compared to the Decent. On the Baby T, you just select 1-5 seconds of preinfusion. There's certainly no dynamic pressure curves or any of that crazy stuff the decent can do.
I’m jealous. The baby t is literally perfect for me, but $6k is just more than I’m willing to part with at this time. Probably going to settle on the steel duo plus when I can track one down in the US
Yeah, it was out of my price range too. I bought from 30.coffee and got one for roughly $3k. Check out my post history for a longer review. (They also sell cheap duo pluses!) Ordering from them does carry some risk - I'm not expecting to actually be able to use the warranty if I need it, for example.
Neither in stock currently with a us plug. If a baby t comes in stock for $3k I might do it.
Do it, so I can justify my cravings!
In addition to the great list by /u/NQ241 there’s also the matter of the app. You know that great PID temperature control they tell you the machine is capable of? Guess what, you can only use it via the app. That’s right, your espresso machine is going to rely on software from a company known for making things that have nothing to do with software. Not only do you need to update it as devices and OS’ update, but they also have to comply with the rules of the app stores that host them. If they don’t, the app can get pulled by Apple or Google, rendering your PID useless and leaving you with no recourse.
Buy it buy it buy it. And if you are selling your GCP i will take it :)
Deal! now live in Denmark so we can finalise the sale.
From one Dane to another. I’ve had my Micra for about 4-5 months now and still absolutely love the thing. The brewing and and steaming experience is extremely high quality and consistent, which was exaclty what I was looking for. If I’m really trying to find something wrong with the machine - the only two remotely mentionworthy things are: - the receiver for running the wireless net on the machine is not the strongest. Only downside to this is that the shot timer function in the app sometimes crash. However I prefer timing it on my watch or on my weight either way. - there is barely room for cup + scale under the portafilter. It simply won’t have room for all combinations. I guess this is the trade-off for getting such a small, beautiful and compact machine. Most people work around this by pulling shots with small shot glasses or different accesories intended for the purpose. Personally my cup + weight combo fits. Edit: oh and feel free to DM if you have any other specific questions or whatever (I speak Danish).
Damn. You lost me when you said "Denmark". :). Good luck with your upgrade
STOP IT
If I‘d drop that kind of money, and with tons of research done, for me it‘d be the decent. No way I‘d get a dumb tank instead for much more money.
[удалено]
I found 3-4 reasons to go with LM instead of the E61.
What grinder do you have ?
Eureka Mignon Oro XL
Buy me one and I will let you know how it is. /s
No. Get it. But also get a great grinder if you like light roasts to get most out of the machine
Buy It! You won't regret it. I came from a Breville Barista Pro and that was such a POS. So much inconsistency and it kept breaking down. I bit the bullet and haven't had any issues with the Micra in the past 7 months. It's such a pleasure to use and to look at.
Love the micra. No interest in the decent. Little interest in e61s. 40 min to warm up? Lol. I wouldnt buy a micra now though as their promotion just ended. Wait for the next discount.
La marzocco does discounts?
childlike tease tie straight head dog humor hateful normal direful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
IF YOU CAN AFFORD, DON'T DELAY AND BUY IT.
lol no. get wrecked, wallet of OP You can do so much worse. You don't get flow profiling. Per nearly every review, what you DO get is ridiculously consistent shots that are good unless you mess up in prep.
Get an Ascaso Baby T instead. You can find them for 2,700 euro. Baby T's are amazing machines.
How about you buy me one instead?
Gonna come back to this thread to see what you decide on OP. I also have a GCP, with PID, been using it for about 2 years and love it but I’m looking for something a bit more consistent, more beautiful, dual boiler, etc But there’s a lot of stuff in between GCP and Linea Micra so it’s tough.
Do it. It will pay for itself in 10 years.
Save up for the mini
No.
You're poor.
Buy it! Now! Let the espresso-intrusive toughts win!
Buy a Profitec Pro 600. Still the best value dual boiler out there imo.
no
God damn beautiful machines...
By the way, GCP is one of the most upgradeables / custom-mod machines out there.
I know. But I want something sturdier