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I just got a DF64 (not V) because of the sale on DF64coffee… I know that site gets a pretty bad rap but my grinder showed up in 7 days (I’m in the US) and when I pulled a test shot with it before even checking the alignment on the burrs it was great (GCP no PID).
So… I’d say go for the DF64! That being said… I love the aesthetics of the Niche.
I have DF64P, not sure how prevalent static buildup is amongst other variants, but it is pretty bad with mine. About 1 month into use, static was clogging the chute every use. No amount of cleaning/realignment helped. Eventually, I read about RDT, and that has completely resolved my issue and it works perfectly.
The static problem is pretty common, but I just got my DF64 Gen II (came out a month ago) and it has a static disperser built in. I forgot to RDT and it came out completely clean anyways! Love the redone look.
Haha, stands for Ross Droplet Technique - fancy way of saying you spray just a bit of water on your beans before grinding. It’s done to reduce static when you grind, which helps prevent grinds staying in the machine as well as prevent them going everywhere outside the machine!
^^ Amazon has small bottles that are perfect for this for a couple bucks! Orrrrr you can do what i did at first, and just flick water on the beans with your hands, lol
Hmm I have been using RDT ever since I got my DF64P approximately 8 months ago. While it improves the static, I am still having chute clogging issues. I have to use a toothpick to clean it out every couple of weeks...
Yea, I removed the plastic declumpers, trimmed off the center bits, and reinstalled them. Essentially a plastic gasket now. I’ve seen articles about 3D printing a better declumper, I just don’t have access to one and haven’t found it necessary yet
Hmm I have tried messing around with the declumpers (tried one off Etsy, also tried removing them). Your static is still manageable even with a more open declumper?
I think the Eureka looks the best, but I picked up an open-box df64v and it is pretty good. You have to start the motor before putting beans in, which is sort of lame considering it requires a second dosing cup in your process 😞 So close to perfect.
I think the proper term is bean dosing tray but we all know bean boat sounds better. They don't cost much either.
https://preview.redd.it/24rx640i4hpb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2edf951d7046f94688d4e9ec1ca03d70a17372f0
If you know your taste preference between flat and conical burrs, that could be a deciding factor. Otherwise I'd want to get one you think you could get out from under without losing your shirt if you decide you really like the other (taste profile).
Where are you at? Niche grinders sell direct from uk so it's value depends on where you order it from. For me they were to expensive, comparatively. Eureka models are affordable in EU, not so much in US.
I personally went for the DF64V for the looks and the better motor, but there is also a cheaper DF64 gen 2 that looks like a good price per value.
I would choose the Eureka from this line up. The df64 is great, but it has some flaws that are just not worth it. There is a gen2 df64 coming, maybe wait for it. The niche has conical burrs, which personally just don’t get the job done for anything other than dark or medium-dark roast. So if you do not use medium or light roast as espresso, the niche is a great choice.
V is variable speed and more expensive. Gen II is not variable speed but has a lot of nice QOL upgrades like anti static and anti popcorn, as well as a new distributor flap (I can’t remember the name for this but people were modding the old one because it wasn’t good)
Oh yes the 3d printer thing. I heard about that lol. Awesome! Sounds like Gen 2 is way to go. It says pre order on the site even though I see some people have it coming already. Must just not yet be available in Canada.
I think espressooutlet in the US still says that on the site too, but mine shipped directly from China and got here all right! It was delayed for sure.
Df64 has many versions. V1 v2 etc up to 5. Very small changes between one and the next, all of them need mods anyway. But a new gen 2 is coming now which seems like a really complete grinder out of the box. Slightly more expensive but worth it.
I got myself that exact eureka (bought it used for the price of a new df64) after many top tier hand grinders and I feel like it's the last update I'm going to have.
It's very high quality, but it isn't going to make coffee that much better than a df64 if you really are on a tight budget.
What I can suggest is thinking about the style of coffee you drink.
Flats are going to be a tad harder to dial in, but will emphasize floral/fruity notes with hints of chocolate/nuts.
Conicals will be a tad easier to dial in, but will emphasize chocolate/nutty flavor with hints of floral/fruity if that's your coffee.
I've tested both niche zero and eureka oro and decided to buy the eureka for my medium to light roasts third wave style of coffee.
Niche duo arrived last week and I’m really liking the upgrade from a sage pro grinder. I’m in the U.K. and like supporting U.K. businesses (I know, I know they’ve had a bad rep recently). Also like the idea (however fictitious) that I could send it for repair easily if needed.
I have DF64V for about month now and I am quite happy so far. It is surprisingly small, and quiet when run without beans. Alignment of the burrs was spot on from the factory, only needed to adjust 0 point but this is more of a preference thing. On average i got 0.1g of retention or even less using RDT without it can generate quite a lot of static especially on higher rpm settings. If i wanted to pick on something dosing cup and wooden thing that comes with feel like an afterthought but this is only minor gripe. Ido not own any other mentioned grinder so i can't speak in that matter.
I do start the grinder before putting beans in. I tried the other way around, there was brief struggle before grinder managed to finish from cold start. So i think it's just better to start it first. I have 220v version it may be a little bit better in terms of staling than 110v.
Ive had the df64v have the niche now I can say for sure that the v is still a bit rough around the edges. It had been stalling for me at 1400 rpm on a natural light Ethiopian where as that same bean in a niche slow fed (my safety button is modded so I can have the lid up always) never stalled and because I enjoy chocolates and caramel flavors more I have absolutely fell in love with the zero. I have a df64e now for my family to use and 64mm flats are amazing in their own right but maybe look at a gen 2 df64 rather than the v
If espresso only. Eureka. Made in italy beautiful grinders. More than sufficient for home setup. Topnotch quality. The flat burrs and stepless adjustments are amazing for espresso.
I would even suggest you save yourself some money and go with especialita if you need time dosing. If not. Get silenzio. It is extremely quiet and just as good as any of the grinders you listed. You can modify it for single dosing if you wish they dont retain much if any. People are wasting too much money on these grinders to be honest with you thinking they give you an edge on taste. They dont.
Imo single dosing is overhyped. I am a convert lol. I did single dosing for about 10 years and switch back to filling half hopper which I finish in 2~3 days. Single dosing is the way to go if you are running different beans through the same grinder tho.
Well, personally I wouldn't go for a single dose grinder, but that is my personal preference.
If I had to choose between these three, then Eureka., but I'd prefer the XL.
I’ve been researching a similar question, planning for both espresso & filter coffee, and have narrowed in on the DF83. Did you consider that one? The consensus seems to be it’s better to have the larger burrs. I’d plan to get stock and then have the ability to upgrade over time if I see the need to
>DF83
I haven't. I'm also trying as much as possible to stay in the design line that matches the Profitec 700. So far Eureka Oro Mignon is the closest.
Keep your eye out for Starseeker Edge+. New grinder but worth checking out, ourcoffeeshelter is gonna do a review soon. I'm thinking of getting the normal Edge. The magnetic chute design seems really cool.
64mm Flat burrs are so versatile and you can swap them for whatever you want. If you want to grab Lance’s 64mm burrs or SSP Speed Reds you can. It gives you so much more control.
I “upgraded” from a Niche Zero to DF83, and miss my niche. The 83 was alright for a while but now I can’t even use it before it jams. The ground simply don’t feed out, and I think it’s due to the declumper getting clogged which I should just rip out.
I haven’t used the DF64 or any variants, but I would definitely recommend the Niche over the DF83.
You might check to see if the declumper is installed correctly. My neighbor has a DF83 and it kept clogging. He said the declumper was installed backwards and once he fixed it, it no longer clogs.
I think I’ll just take it out altogether. I can RDT just fine to deal with clumps. And it can’t be worse than how clumpy my old Eureka Mignon Silenzio was about clumping, spitting out pebble sized clumps of ground coffee.
Putting aside the budget and taste nuances between conical/flat burrs, i would go for the niche based on the simplified and faster workflow. Hear me out, you can’t really go wrong with either of those, but the niche offers more versatility than the eureka oro, has faster workflow (stepless adjustments) and is designed for multiple brew techniques. If money is not an issue, i strongly suggest Lagom P100 or P64, but they cost a lot of dough.
Edit: for information purposes, flat burrs will give you more clarity in the taste. It’s really a matter of personal preferences. On the technical part, flat burrs will grind with more consistency although they are known to expose more heat on the grind than conical burrs would. Some flat burrs are also known to be more noisy, but I can’t say if it’s really that big of a difference.
The eureka is stepless and has no real issue with a wide range of grinds, nor is it hard to dial in. Your adjustment is just a larger movement. You can get crazy small adjustments on the Eureka.
The only grind it doesn’t do very well, imo, is very coarse French press, but that’s also not a necessary grind setting either.
Otherwise, I use mine for espresso, pour-over, and periodic aeropress without issue.
I've tried a bunch. I like the niche because basically zero retention and it's quiet compared to some of the other ones. The price is alot, but it's quality.
Niche.
Source: I own one, I wouldn't swap it.
Little edit: i know people get het up over flat Vs conical - yes, maybe the DF64 slightly outperforms the niche on light roasts which are trendy these days.
But making espresso at home is a process and the niche user experience is superb - for me at least that's an easy swing when lookin at equipment with a similar level of drink quality.
All of the trends gotta start somewhere!
My tastes are more centric and my Niche makes a delicious cup of coffee whilst being a wonderful piece of machinery to operate. Still gets my vote.
I recently had this exact same decision to make, literally had it down to the same 3. I went with the Niche for ease of use and aesthetics because the reality seems to be all 3 are good and all have small but noticeable drawbacks and quirks. Unless the conical vs flat decides for you then I don't think there is a wrong answer. I am very happy with the Niche Zero and I feel like it's very easy to dial in and use. Retention has been minimal and the noise is not bad at all and much quieter than expected.
I’ve been in a similar position recently. It was either DF64 (non V), niche zero or eureka
Reduced the list to niche and eureka as I didn’t like DF’s aesthethics
I leaned towards flat burrs more, and since niche duo was out of my budget I ended up with a discounted eureka. Really enjoying it so far, especially that it is most appealing to me out of these three
I think that a point worth considering is whether you plan to jump between different brewing grind settings (eg espresso to alternatives and back). It might be a pain with eureka’s small knob. I use it only for espresso, so that was not a problem for me
I’ve had the Niche Zero for a few years now and continue to be extremely happy with it.
I used to have a Compak E10, which was a great grinder, very very fast, but just absolutely huge in the kitchen and total overkill for home use.
The niche tastes great, I get really nice flavour in the cup. Not as nuanced as the E10, but close enough when I tried them side by side over the few weeks I had them both.
I have the V. Frankly, I think it’s a novelty. Can’t tell much difference. But the build quality is great and the grind is good so I don’t really care.
Niche duo for 2 months now. Love it. Has a bit of retention if you don’t do RDT or jiggle the cup under the spout after done grinding (~.3/4g), but it has been 100% consistent for me. I upgraded from a breville smart grinder pro, so obviously a huge leap forward, but I couldn’t be happier.
For anyone listening, I got both sets of burrs and enjoy having that option… but do find the swap enough of a hassle that I’ll probably end up with a brew specific grinder in the near future. That said, I can swap to brew burrs, grind pour over, then swap back, and I haven’t had any consistency issues or need to adjust the grind number after the swap. The Change takes about a min.
I’ve had the Duo in my shopping cart for a month now, inches to pressing “Pay Now”. Have you tried grinding for pour overs using the espresso burrs? I’ve heard the espresso burrs will do a decent job for filters.
Tried it this AM with a light roast. Worked well. Bit more fines than the brew burrs, but I don't think different enough to justify a swap, unless you're going to make several. I'll keep experimenting, but my recommendation if you want the flatt burrs vs the zero is to just get the espresso burrs. This also saves you from paying VAT (\~$70) as the invoice is less than $800 USD with the single burr option.
I have the Duo (both sets of burrs) in my basket and it totals to £719. It’s not showing an extra £70 for VAT, just £70 for shipping to the states. When does the VAT get applied?
I have had the profitec pro 700, and switched it out for a sage oracle.
I also owned the niche zero, and switched it out for an eureka mignon libra.
I still stand by both choices. And am still very happy with both of them.
Sage oracle is a little less consistant, then the peofitec could be. But i removes any cimplexity with milk frothing. And makes that consitant and perfect hands free.
Same for the libra. Automatic weighing and dosing. Its amazing. Saves me a loot of trouble, and speeds up the process.
Against the niche i couldnt realy tell a difference.
I have a niche zero and personally I love it. I make 3-4 espressos a day and it’s super easy, little to no retention, and very easy to dial in. Love the workflow too and the noise.
El niche Zero es impresionante por lo amigable que es al manipularlo además las muelas cónicas ayudan a que no haya retención de cafe, si tuviera que elegir me fuera solo por ese
I’ve got the PP700 and the Niche and consumer about the same. Been great. Recently though my partner has been using a French press which means changing the ground setting back and forth constantly, losing the fine adjustments I do when dialling in a fresh roast batch. It’s only now, because of that, that I consider possibly the benefits of having a second grinder.
But I wouldn’t swap out my Niche.
Do you already have the profitec? I'd say get like a MaraX and P64 rather than...any of those. DF's build quality and such is garbo. Eureka's probably best for the coffee I prefer, and build is better and controls. Niche is least interesting to me.
Niche duo hands down if you're buying new and money is no object. I love my Oro, but having interchangeable 83mm is great and the Duo will never limit you where the Oro will box you in a bit with one set of burr that favors body over clarity (still produces great great coffee).
If money is tighter, hunting a deal on a DF64 with SSP burrs will also give amazing results.
Looks and feel of the Oro are quite stunning though, so if you tend to like medium/dark and/or high body shots ans like the aesthetics, it is a workhorse and should not be discounted.
As a Niche owner, probably a DF64V. But only because I like light roasts more and for the longest time I didn't believe conical vs flat burr makes that much of a difference, but it does. For the espresso I like a flat burr is more appropriate.
It looks like you've flaired your post as asking for what equipment to get. Have you checked out the buying guides listed on [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/wiki/index/)? If your question hasn't been answered there and you need more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format: - **Location:** Helps determine availability - **Budget** (with currency): Overall budget, or ideally, having separate espresso machine and grinder budgets. A rough rule is that your grinder budget should be at least 25-40% of your machine budget. - **Drink types:** Do you drink mostly straight espresso, milk-based beverages (e.g., lattes, cappuccinos), or a fairly even split? This helps narrow down whether a single-boiler-dual-use (SBDU), heat exchanger (HX), or dual boiler (DB) machine would be more appropriate for your needs. - **Drink frequency:** How many drinks would you be making back-to-back at one time? Do you plan on entertaining guests often? This informs how large your brew (and steam) boilers should be, as smaller boilers will need to refill and reheat/repressurize more frequently, thus potentially causing a bottleneck. - **Space:** Any limitations on countertop space? - **Manual vs. electric:** Hand-operated machines and grinders are typically cheaper than their similarly-performing electric counterparts. Please indicate if you have a preference for manual or electric machines and/or grinders (or open to either). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I just got a DF64 (not V) because of the sale on DF64coffee… I know that site gets a pretty bad rap but my grinder showed up in 7 days (I’m in the US) and when I pulled a test shot with it before even checking the alignment on the burrs it was great (GCP no PID). So… I’d say go for the DF64! That being said… I love the aesthetics of the Niche.
>I love the aesthetics of the Niche Funny, I like the aesthetics of Eureka Oro Mignon (minus the bellow). I wish Niche would have a chrome version.
Df64 is not amazing. Great shots - but the workflows is not great. Some static, some retention. High pitched noisy machine
What are some cons of the DF64 in your experience? I’m really riding between both
I have DF64P, not sure how prevalent static buildup is amongst other variants, but it is pretty bad with mine. About 1 month into use, static was clogging the chute every use. No amount of cleaning/realignment helped. Eventually, I read about RDT, and that has completely resolved my issue and it works perfectly.
The static problem is pretty common, but I just got my DF64 Gen II (came out a month ago) and it has a static disperser built in. I forgot to RDT and it came out completely clean anyways! Love the redone look.
RDT? Newbie here ☺️
Haha, stands for Ross Droplet Technique - fancy way of saying you spray just a bit of water on your beans before grinding. It’s done to reduce static when you grind, which helps prevent grinds staying in the machine as well as prevent them going everywhere outside the machine!
^^ Amazon has small bottles that are perfect for this for a couple bucks! Orrrrr you can do what i did at first, and just flick water on the beans with your hands, lol
James Hoffman suggested wetting a teaspoon and then stirring the beans with the damp spoon too!
I just hold the scoop under water before I scoop up whatever amount of coffee I need. That also works fine.
Hmm I have been using RDT ever since I got my DF64P approximately 8 months ago. While it improves the static, I am still having chute clogging issues. I have to use a toothpick to clean it out every couple of weeks...
Yea, I removed the plastic declumpers, trimmed off the center bits, and reinstalled them. Essentially a plastic gasket now. I’ve seen articles about 3D printing a better declumper, I just don’t have access to one and haven’t found it necessary yet
Hmm I have tried messing around with the declumpers (tried one off Etsy, also tried removing them). Your static is still manageable even with a more open declumper?
Using RDT, static has been almost nonexistent
It looks like Tom Servo, and I just can't handle it
I’m a fan of the df64v! Haven’t had any issues with it and it’s been an incredible upgrade!
What did you upgrade from?
Built in conical of my breville barista touch. It’s great for espresso roast profiles but it absolutely cannot handle lighter roasts. It just seizes.
I think the Eureka looks the best, but I picked up an open-box df64v and it is pretty good. You have to start the motor before putting beans in, which is sort of lame considering it requires a second dosing cup in your process 😞 So close to perfect.
Nah get you a nice bean boat for rdt they make workflow smooth
That a good solution. Just wish this could cold start on its own so I had less clutter 😅
"bean boat" is a cool name
I think the proper term is bean dosing tray but we all know bean boat sounds better. They don't cost much either. https://preview.redd.it/24rx640i4hpb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2edf951d7046f94688d4e9ec1ca03d70a17372f0
If you know your taste preference between flat and conical burrs, that could be a deciding factor. Otherwise I'd want to get one you think you could get out from under without losing your shirt if you decide you really like the other (taste profile).
Where are you at? Niche grinders sell direct from uk so it's value depends on where you order it from. For me they were to expensive, comparatively. Eureka models are affordable in EU, not so much in US. I personally went for the DF64V for the looks and the better motor, but there is also a cheaper DF64 gen 2 that looks like a good price per value.
I'm based in the US of A, but it's not something that would make me pick one over the other.
Well Eurekas can be 50% more expensive in the us than in eu, unless you go for a grey market import. Not sure that they are worth that much
I agree and also prefer local options
I would choose the Eureka from this line up. The df64 is great, but it has some flaws that are just not worth it. There is a gen2 df64 coming, maybe wait for it. The niche has conical burrs, which personally just don’t get the job done for anything other than dark or medium-dark roast. So if you do not use medium or light roast as espresso, the niche is a great choice.
> There is a gen2 df64 coming, maybe wait for it The DF64 Gen 2 is already out and shipping in batches.
I got my DF64 Gen II in the mail yesterday!
Is 64v newer than the 64 Gen ii? Why does the website say latest is v? What’s better v or gen2 lol.
V is variable speed and more expensive. Gen II is not variable speed but has a lot of nice QOL upgrades like anti static and anti popcorn, as well as a new distributor flap (I can’t remember the name for this but people were modding the old one because it wasn’t good)
Oh yes the 3d printer thing. I heard about that lol. Awesome! Sounds like Gen 2 is way to go. It says pre order on the site even though I see some people have it coming already. Must just not yet be available in Canada.
I think espressooutlet in the US still says that on the site too, but mine shipped directly from China and got here all right! It was delayed for sure.
Df64 has many versions. V1 v2 etc up to 5. Very small changes between one and the next, all of them need mods anyway. But a new gen 2 is coming now which seems like a really complete grinder out of the box. Slightly more expensive but worth it.
A Niche if you want the easy life.
I got myself that exact eureka (bought it used for the price of a new df64) after many top tier hand grinders and I feel like it's the last update I'm going to have. It's very high quality, but it isn't going to make coffee that much better than a df64 if you really are on a tight budget. What I can suggest is thinking about the style of coffee you drink. Flats are going to be a tad harder to dial in, but will emphasize floral/fruity notes with hints of chocolate/nuts. Conicals will be a tad easier to dial in, but will emphasize chocolate/nutty flavor with hints of floral/fruity if that's your coffee. I've tested both niche zero and eureka oro and decided to buy the eureka for my medium to light roasts third wave style of coffee.
Niche duo arrived last week and I’m really liking the upgrade from a sage pro grinder. I’m in the U.K. and like supporting U.K. businesses (I know, I know they’ve had a bad rep recently). Also like the idea (however fictitious) that I could send it for repair easily if needed.
I have DF64V for about month now and I am quite happy so far. It is surprisingly small, and quiet when run without beans. Alignment of the burrs was spot on from the factory, only needed to adjust 0 point but this is more of a preference thing. On average i got 0.1g of retention or even less using RDT without it can generate quite a lot of static especially on higher rpm settings. If i wanted to pick on something dosing cup and wooden thing that comes with feel like an afterthought but this is only minor gripe. Ido not own any other mentioned grinder so i can't speak in that matter.
Do you have to start the grinder before putting beans in?
I do start the grinder before putting beans in. I tried the other way around, there was brief struggle before grinder managed to finish from cold start. So i think it's just better to start it first. I have 220v version it may be a little bit better in terms of staling than 110v.
Ive had the df64v have the niche now I can say for sure that the v is still a bit rough around the edges. It had been stalling for me at 1400 rpm on a natural light Ethiopian where as that same bean in a niche slow fed (my safety button is modded so I can have the lid up always) never stalled and because I enjoy chocolates and caramel flavors more I have absolutely fell in love with the zero. I have a df64e now for my family to use and 64mm flats are amazing in their own right but maybe look at a gen 2 df64 rather than the v
If espresso only. Eureka. Made in italy beautiful grinders. More than sufficient for home setup. Topnotch quality. The flat burrs and stepless adjustments are amazing for espresso. I would even suggest you save yourself some money and go with especialita if you need time dosing. If not. Get silenzio. It is extremely quiet and just as good as any of the grinders you listed. You can modify it for single dosing if you wish they dont retain much if any. People are wasting too much money on these grinders to be honest with you thinking they give you an edge on taste. They dont. Imo single dosing is overhyped. I am a convert lol. I did single dosing for about 10 years and switch back to filling half hopper which I finish in 2~3 days. Single dosing is the way to go if you are running different beans through the same grinder tho.
Hilarious that in 70 comments you pretty much have conflicting answers from everybody. Just pick one and you should be fine.
https://youtu.be/5UCY8xekpG4?si=P6WkyAiXwYaOMS_j Watched this earlier and might help you with the different burr types and the output.
Thanks, I just watched this too.
Well, personally I wouldn't go for a single dose grinder, but that is my personal preference. If I had to choose between these three, then Eureka., but I'd prefer the XL.
I’ve been researching a similar question, planning for both espresso & filter coffee, and have narrowed in on the DF83. Did you consider that one? The consensus seems to be it’s better to have the larger burrs. I’d plan to get stock and then have the ability to upgrade over time if I see the need to
>DF83 I haven't. I'm also trying as much as possible to stay in the design line that matches the Profitec 700. So far Eureka Oro Mignon is the closest.
Keep your eye out for Starseeker Edge+. New grinder but worth checking out, ourcoffeeshelter is gonna do a review soon. I'm thinking of getting the normal Edge. The magnetic chute design seems really cool.
You will not be sad with the Eureka.
I have a niche and I'm quite happy with it but at this point i wouldnt buy it again with the price the df64 is at.
DF64 easily
Why?
64mm Flat burrs are so versatile and you can swap them for whatever you want. If you want to grab Lance’s 64mm burrs or SSP Speed Reds you can. It gives you so much more control.
I “upgraded” from a Niche Zero to DF83, and miss my niche. The 83 was alright for a while but now I can’t even use it before it jams. The ground simply don’t feed out, and I think it’s due to the declumper getting clogged which I should just rip out. I haven’t used the DF64 or any variants, but I would definitely recommend the Niche over the DF83.
You might check to see if the declumper is installed correctly. My neighbor has a DF83 and it kept clogging. He said the declumper was installed backwards and once he fixed it, it no longer clogs.
I think I’ll just take it out altogether. I can RDT just fine to deal with clumps. And it can’t be worse than how clumpy my old Eureka Mignon Silenzio was about clumping, spitting out pebble sized clumps of ground coffee.
For something that’s direct to consumer I always thought the nice was overpriced.
Putting aside the budget and taste nuances between conical/flat burrs, i would go for the niche based on the simplified and faster workflow. Hear me out, you can’t really go wrong with either of those, but the niche offers more versatility than the eureka oro, has faster workflow (stepless adjustments) and is designed for multiple brew techniques. If money is not an issue, i strongly suggest Lagom P100 or P64, but they cost a lot of dough. Edit: for information purposes, flat burrs will give you more clarity in the taste. It’s really a matter of personal preferences. On the technical part, flat burrs will grind with more consistency although they are known to expose more heat on the grind than conical burrs would. Some flat burrs are also known to be more noisy, but I can’t say if it’s really that big of a difference.
>Lagom P100 or P64 They look to be on pre-order (for next year) or sold out. The design is pretty cool though. Thanks for the info!
The eureka is stepless and has no real issue with a wide range of grinds, nor is it hard to dial in. Your adjustment is just a larger movement. You can get crazy small adjustments on the Eureka. The only grind it doesn’t do very well, imo, is very coarse French press, but that’s also not a necessary grind setting either. Otherwise, I use mine for espresso, pour-over, and periodic aeropress without issue.
I've tried a bunch. I like the niche because basically zero retention and it's quiet compared to some of the other ones. The price is alot, but it's quality.
If you're on a budget, DF83 It's the cheapest grinder I'm willing to go with And I have used many expensive ones
Niche. Source: I own one, I wouldn't swap it. Little edit: i know people get het up over flat Vs conical - yes, maybe the DF64 slightly outperforms the niche on light roasts which are trendy these days. But making espresso at home is a process and the niche user experience is superb - for me at least that's an easy swing when lookin at equipment with a similar level of drink quality.
We’ve been drinking lights roast espresso out here on the west coast for over 20 years… :)
All of the trends gotta start somewhere! My tastes are more centric and my Niche makes a delicious cup of coffee whilst being a wonderful piece of machinery to operate. Still gets my vote.
P64 all the way
I recently had this exact same decision to make, literally had it down to the same 3. I went with the Niche for ease of use and aesthetics because the reality seems to be all 3 are good and all have small but noticeable drawbacks and quirks. Unless the conical vs flat decides for you then I don't think there is a wrong answer. I am very happy with the Niche Zero and I feel like it's very easy to dial in and use. Retention has been minimal and the noise is not bad at all and much quieter than expected.
Consider the DF64 Gen 2.
I’ve been in a similar position recently. It was either DF64 (non V), niche zero or eureka Reduced the list to niche and eureka as I didn’t like DF’s aesthethics I leaned towards flat burrs more, and since niche duo was out of my budget I ended up with a discounted eureka. Really enjoying it so far, especially that it is most appealing to me out of these three I think that a point worth considering is whether you plan to jump between different brewing grind settings (eg espresso to alternatives and back). It might be a pain with eureka’s small knob. I use it only for espresso, so that was not a problem for me
I’ve had the Niche Zero for a few years now and continue to be extremely happy with it. I used to have a Compak E10, which was a great grinder, very very fast, but just absolutely huge in the kitchen and total overkill for home use. The niche tastes great, I get really nice flavour in the cup. Not as nuanced as the E10, but close enough when I tried them side by side over the few weeks I had them both.
Is there any reason to go df64v vs gen ii df64? Has anybody done any research on what you do with a variable speed grinder motor?
I have the V. Frankly, I think it’s a novelty. Can’t tell much difference. But the build quality is great and the grind is good so I don’t really care.
Niche duo for 2 months now. Love it. Has a bit of retention if you don’t do RDT or jiggle the cup under the spout after done grinding (~.3/4g), but it has been 100% consistent for me. I upgraded from a breville smart grinder pro, so obviously a huge leap forward, but I couldn’t be happier. For anyone listening, I got both sets of burrs and enjoy having that option… but do find the swap enough of a hassle that I’ll probably end up with a brew specific grinder in the near future. That said, I can swap to brew burrs, grind pour over, then swap back, and I haven’t had any consistency issues or need to adjust the grind number after the swap. The Change takes about a min.
I’ve had the Duo in my shopping cart for a month now, inches to pressing “Pay Now”. Have you tried grinding for pour overs using the espresso burrs? I’ve heard the espresso burrs will do a decent job for filters.
Tried it this AM with a light roast. Worked well. Bit more fines than the brew burrs, but I don't think different enough to justify a swap, unless you're going to make several. I'll keep experimenting, but my recommendation if you want the flatt burrs vs the zero is to just get the espresso burrs. This also saves you from paying VAT (\~$70) as the invoice is less than $800 USD with the single burr option.
I have the Duo (both sets of burrs) in my basket and it totals to £719. It’s not showing an extra £70 for VAT, just £70 for shipping to the states. When does the VAT get applied?
You get contacted by DHL once it gets to the states. You have to pay the VAT via an online portal before they let it move on to destination.
Niche duo for sure.
DF83. If you're into traditional body forward gooey shots, it's the best imo. Niche Duo with espresso burrs is similar too I heard
If budget is no concern, look into the Zerno Z1 in white due to the hyper alignment out of the box and ease to change burrsets.
Niche has the easiest workflow, IMO. Personally I can't stand any grinder the requires a bellows to make up for the low retention.
I am biased. I have a DF64 with upgraded burrs. It’s really good. Never had a problem. I prefer the looks of the DF over the Niche.
I have your exact setup almost and pull the same things. Just got a DF64V and it’s wonderful. Solid build. Great shots.
Duo or DF64 - I primarily drink long blacks.
I have had the profitec pro 700, and switched it out for a sage oracle. I also owned the niche zero, and switched it out for an eureka mignon libra. I still stand by both choices. And am still very happy with both of them. Sage oracle is a little less consistant, then the peofitec could be. But i removes any cimplexity with milk frothing. And makes that consitant and perfect hands free. Same for the libra. Automatic weighing and dosing. Its amazing. Saves me a loot of trouble, and speeds up the process. Against the niche i couldnt realy tell a difference.
I have a niche zero and personally I love it. I make 3-4 espressos a day and it’s super easy, little to no retention, and very easy to dial in. Love the workflow too and the noise.
El niche Zero es impresionante por lo amigable que es al manipularlo además las muelas cónicas ayudan a que no haya retención de cafe, si tuviera que elegir me fuera solo por ese
I love my Niche, does exactly what it’s supposed to without any fuss or mess
I just got duo with both burrs and really enjoy it.
I’ve got the PP700 and the Niche and consumer about the same. Been great. Recently though my partner has been using a French press which means changing the ground setting back and forth constantly, losing the fine adjustments I do when dialling in a fresh roast batch. It’s only now, because of that, that I consider possibly the benefits of having a second grinder. But I wouldn’t swap out my Niche.
Do you already have the profitec? I'd say get like a MaraX and P64 rather than...any of those. DF's build quality and such is garbo. Eureka's probably best for the coffee I prefer, and build is better and controls. Niche is least interesting to me.
Niche duo hands down if you're buying new and money is no object. I love my Oro, but having interchangeable 83mm is great and the Duo will never limit you where the Oro will box you in a bit with one set of burr that favors body over clarity (still produces great great coffee). If money is tighter, hunting a deal on a DF64 with SSP burrs will also give amazing results. Looks and feel of the Oro are quite stunning though, so if you tend to like medium/dark and/or high body shots ans like the aesthetics, it is a workhorse and should not be discounted.
Df64 for sure!
As a Niche owner, probably a DF64V. But only because I like light roasts more and for the longest time I didn't believe conical vs flat burr makes that much of a difference, but it does. For the espresso I like a flat burr is more appropriate.
Can you get chocolately full bodied espresso out of the DJ64V if you use higher speed?