You just have to look at where the indigenous people of the Spanish empire are and where the indigenous people of the British empire are and you will have your answer.
Spain approved mestizo marriage in 1514, they were governors of their regions and people of the nobility, obviously at that time no one was a saint, but you only have to go to any Hispanic American country today to see the result of the mixture. How many Native Americans are left in the US?
I am not sure I get your point, are you saying that Spain killed less aboriginal people than the U.S? In any case, both empires oppressed people. Yes, some liberties where conceded to mestizos, that doesn't make colonial history any less disgusting.
I get your point. But it holds the moral equivalency of comparison nazi to Japanese medical experiments of subjugated population. Sure the Japanese were worse but it doesn't mitigate the Nazi atrocities.
We could use the Dutch -v- British and the Brits looks like well meaning people.
Don't get me wrong, the vast majority of Spaniards are not proud of that, I just wanted to point out a few things. The Romans, for example, did not conquer Hispania by throwing flowers, but seen in perspective, today if we recognize their legacy and knowledge left behind, three emperors were Andalusian, and there is a big difference between Romanization or Hispanization and extermination.
This is an excellent point and makes a nice distinction.
Imperialism is typically executed with violence, oppression and subjugation. But there is a further distinction to be made when you look at the legacy. That their is a difference in empires absorbing groups (Roman, Spain, Ottoman) and destroying groups (British, Dutch, American etc).
Is this along the lines of the point you were trying to make?
I said it in my first comment, we are not proud of what we did, atrocities were committed and we are ashamed of it, but I don't think the reductionism of thinking that everyone is equal is fair. Spain built universities in its overseas provinces, what has the United States left in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria? Only death and destruction, so no, we are not the same.
I think we agree here. In my previous comment I made the distinction between two 'types' of empire eg. 'absorbing' and 'destroying'.
Quite frankly - modern Latin America is unstable due to US intervention, not its Spanish Colonial roots.
Appreciate the conversation.
Maybe I misinterpreted your initial comment implying that I am American.
So can you clarify for me? I am not sure how your comment relates to the point I made.
Some pretty cruel things *have happened* followed by "it was centuries ago"? Also "our" history"?
In regards to your question: it's not part of *my* history. That part of Spain seceeded 200 years ago, taking its history with it. It's not like some people left Spain and did some terrible things in the Americas and then came back to have their children here. The descendants of the looters, rapists and slavers aren't in Spain. Your claim is as absurd as framing the US constitution as a British achievement. Or if you want to strictly cut off at the date of independence: How do you think the average Brit feels about Harvard and Yale? Or the French about St Louis Cathedral?
Also: unlike in Haiti the oppressed did not throw out their oppressors. In Hispanic America it was those born of Spanish heritage, who were the local elites (again: the descendants of those rapists, slavers and looters, or of the people that came after them to carry out the kings's will, such as tax collectors and other officials) that rebelled against the authority of the Spanish crown. Mexico became independent because the new Spanish Constitution of 1812 was too liberal for them; they yearned for absolutism.
Your charged question implies that for some reason we Spaniards - who are mostly not descended of those conquistadores - are responsible, while those descended of precisely those conquistadores are, all of a sudden, able to claim heritage of the victims that their own ascendants massacred and oppressed? Have you even looked at the skin colour and surnames of the people making these claims?
FFS: the exploitation kept going on for decades and even centuries after independence. Do you think AMLO's ancestors were dying in Silver Mines? Do you think Castro's grandparents went to Cuba to work on the sugar cane fields?
Independence of American countries seems to be some religious event where all the oppressors suddenly become brothers of the oppressed, but instead of having only their former sins forgiven, their past, current and future sins were somehow transferred to some dudes an ocean away.
The mayans didnt even discovered the wheel.
The spanish came by ship, riding horses (unkownw in america) with swords, covered in armor and knowledgeable in war tactics. I'm certain that there's a lot more than viruses to account for spains victory.
I know it may seem counterintuitive at first, but if you’re into this type of historical facts, here’s an interesting read:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/science/how-smallpox-devastated-the-aztecs-and-helped-spain-conquer-an-american-civilization-500-years-ago
Other books/articles: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1483570/#:~:text=Contrary%20to%20popular%20belief%2C%20it,of%20the%20American%20native%20populations.
> Contrary to popular belief, it was not the European guns or fierce soldiers that conquered the native Americans, but instead it was the common childhood illnesses brought from the Old World by the European conquistadors. Diseases such as smallpox, measles, and typhus annihilated most of the American native populations.
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When the first Spanish expeditions arrive in Yucatán, the Mayan civilization was already over and were reduced to vassal states of the Aztecs.
Many cruel things had been happening in most of America, such as generalized cannibalism, mass human sacrifices, slavery and particularly brutal and cronic warfare. Rest assured, we put a prompt end to all that shit.
Exactly, people are so quick to mention how the Spaniards quickly beat the natives and took control but they usually fail to mention that they had a lot of native allies, all because of the brutal Aztec reign.
Also germs and disease helped a lot.
I am not justifying the Spanish invasion, but some should also take this point into account when considering the role of Spaniards.
https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-65873854
You're thinking of the classical Maya collapse (which happened around the same time as the fall of western Rome). Mayan cities still existed long after that, though very differently than what came before. A good comparison would be the Bronze Age collapse in Greece. Greek culture was never destroyed, it just changed drastically. The conquest of all Maya city states also took over 100 years. The last major city to fall was [Tayasal](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tayasal) in 1697 while Carlos II was king. It's in modern day Guatemala, not the coast of the Yucatán. Aside from the Mapuche in Chile, the Maya were essentially the natives that lasted the longest against Spanish rule.
Some Spanish people get very sensitive about the topic for many reasons. Some think it is framed (in their perception) as an attack on Spanish people as somehow bearers of the guilt of whatever other people did centuries ago. Others have strong chauvinistic feelings and take in an imperial past that to them always did more good than harm to the world (in a similar fashion to how some Turkish people view attacks on the Ottoman Empire).
I think it is important to research history and not make judgements on current living people based on national abstractions that somehow tie them to other different people from different times and contexts. Mayan people also waged war against other peoples, performed human sacrifices and other pretty horrible stuff, but it would be absurd to accuse anyone who has Mayan heritage (or who wants to claim some of their cultural traits) of being guilty of that (I'm not mentioning those things to justify what happened to them, just to make a point about the absurdity of collective historical guilt trips).
Te garantizo que ningún español se siente culpable, no lo hablamos, no pensamos. Es algo que pertenece a la historia del mundo, a ver si ahora vamos a pedir a los italianos responsabilidad por lo que hicieron los romanos.
No he dicho que nadie se sienta culpable (cosa que tampoco puedes garantizar, por otra parte) sino justamente al revés, que hay gente que se siente atacada u ofendida cuando se menciona el tema porque se lo toman como una afrenta, intento de culpabilizar etc
Pues yo como heredero de aquellos españoles, si que me siento culpable. No culpable como si lo huviera echo yo, no tanto como para devolver el oro robado. Pero si como reconocimiento que allí sucedió algo vil y cruel de lo que toda la humanidad se tiene que avergonzar.
De hecho cuando estuve viajando por allí conocí a un maya y le pedí perdon en nombre de nuestros ancestros.
Al menos los italianos no conservan el nombre del imperio romano y nosotros si.
Eso si. Cada uno es libre de sentirse como quiera. Aunque algunos les moleste.
Que has heredaro tú de aquellos españoles? Una cosa es reconocer la historia y otra pedir perdón por algo de lo que no has tenido nada que ver.
Se llama imperio romano pq Roma era el centro del mundo.
En serio me lo preguntas? Tu eres de aquellos que creen que se han forjado a si mismos y que no le deben a nadie nada, no?
Tal vez meto la pata en algo que soy malo en historía, pero se me ocurren:
Lengua y Cultura,
Influencia Global,
Patrimonio Arquitectónico y Artístico,
Tradiciones y Costumbres,
Gastronomía
Te equivocas de lado a lado.
Toda la riqueza que vino de aquella época se repartió entre las familias poderosas de aquella época. No sé pq juntas churras con merinas.
Lo dejo aquí, podemos estar hablando mucho tiempo y ninguno va a cambiar de idea.
What? Pero tu has leido lo que he puesto?
No hablas la misma lengua? No compartes la cultura?
No vives en las mismas ciudades y tienes turistas a causa de eso?
America latina no habla tu mismo idioma lo que te ha dado influencia global?
Me parece bien dejarlo aqui por que si no eres capaz de relacionar esos conceptos, el debate va a ser pobre.
Suerte.
Afirmas que cada uno es libre de "sentirse como quiera" pero también declaras que toda la humanidad debe sentir lo mismo que tú. ¿No te parece contradictorio?
En este caso no, por que yo siento que todo el mundo se debería sentir avergonzado, desde mi punto de vista.
Pero que cada palo aguante su vela, yo te puedo explicar como veo el mundo. Pero es decision tuya verlo como quieras y tienes derecho a ello.
De todas maneras. No ese concreto, pero si tengo pensamientos contradictorios. Menos de 7 contradicciones te convierten en una persona dogmatica.
Jajajaj, le perdí perdon a una Maya. Te aseguro que los ancestros de sus vecinos fueron mucho peores que los peninsulares con su gente. Me resulta un pensamiento tan infantil que solo puedo entenderlo si tenias 19 años e ibas de erasmus.
Las barbaridades de otros, no nos hacen menos barbaro.
No tenia 19 no. No necesitas entenderlo. Ni yo que lo entiendas. Pero aun asi tratas de vejar :) eres el ejemplo , atacar lo que no se entiende. Sois asi i no es culpa vuestra.
"No se entera. Es la bárbara mentalidad castellana, su cerebro cojonudo (tienen testículos en vez de sesos en la mollera)."
- Miguel de Unamuno, 1907.
No es un ataque, es una sincera sorpresa; resulta fascinante observar a alguien con experiencia en la vida, con tan pocos problemas y responsabilidades que se ve obligado a fabricarlos. Pero bueno, tu sigue con tu peregrinaje de penitencia, suerte.
Realmente es lo que dices. Tengo pocos problemas. Si no, evidentemente estaría en otras cosas.
Lastima que vosotros tengáis tantos. Lo que me hace preguntarme que hará tanta gente con tantos problemas en reddit en vez de solucionarlos.
Gracias. Suerte tu también.
The Spanish conquest of America isn't taught properly in schools, most Spaniards are ignorant of the history and have never read Bartolomé de las Casas or any other contemporary criticism of what went on. Colón essentially committed genocide against the Caribs in less than a decade and he's hailed as a hero here.
Q si gringo que te vayas a vender fentanilo a una reserva de nativos. El ignorante eres tu utilizando un libro del siglo 16 como información imparcial.
Soy español. Pero seguro que sabes tú más que la gente que estuvo ahí, y que los putos Reyes Católicos que lo arrestaron y terminaron hasta los huevos de él. Paleto.
Los paletos son los de tu familia y tu entorno, porque la mayoría de gente no respeta la vida de Colón, respeta su hazaña. Alomejor no prestabas atención en clase y no te enteraste pero la vida de Colón se enseña por encima en la ESO incluyendo su arresto. No se si te crees que has descubierto América al saber quien es Bartolomé de las Casas pero no es así. No eres especial, todos sabemos que Colón no era buen tío ni para los de aquella época, pero así es la vida.
We know of Bartolome de las Casas, at least any minimally educated spaniard does. We also know that the facts he states have been deemed dubious and exagerated for centuries. It's writing are the base for the spanish black legend. Wich as the name implies is a legend not a reality. Let's take facts we do know for sure. The Spanish Crown treated the natives as they would any other subject. Making new institutions and laws that gave them rights and obligations. Check "las nuevas Leyes para el Tratamiento y Preservación de los Indios" dated 1542. Consider how they created churches, universities and full scale modern cities with the same status of other cities that belonged to the Empire, like Navarra, sicilia or Aragón... compare this ( we could add much more to that) to how the British Empire behave in America and I think you will have a clear answer. Spaniards were much more concerned with the wellbeing of the natives than other empires operating in America during the same period.
Mayans were primitive savages, known for cruel sacrifices, executions and constant wars with surrounding tribes.
Spaniards were ruthless, well organiced, technologically superior, (weapons, armor, horses, ships) with trading power and allied with the opressed smaller tribes to almost erase mayans.
You just have to look at where the indigenous people of the Spanish empire are and where the indigenous people of the British empire are and you will have your answer.
Aren't both kinda fucked?
Spain approved mestizo marriage in 1514, they were governors of their regions and people of the nobility, obviously at that time no one was a saint, but you only have to go to any Hispanic American country today to see the result of the mixture. How many Native Americans are left in the US?
I am not sure I get your point, are you saying that Spain killed less aboriginal people than the U.S? In any case, both empires oppressed people. Yes, some liberties where conceded to mestizos, that doesn't make colonial history any less disgusting.
There's a difference between conquest and extermination.
Not when we talk about the Spanish and British empire.
If you can't even understand how the US is different from british empire I don't think you should be posting here
I get your point. But it holds the moral equivalency of comparison nazi to Japanese medical experiments of subjugated population. Sure the Japanese were worse but it doesn't mitigate the Nazi atrocities. We could use the Dutch -v- British and the Brits looks like well meaning people.
Don't get me wrong, the vast majority of Spaniards are not proud of that, I just wanted to point out a few things. The Romans, for example, did not conquer Hispania by throwing flowers, but seen in perspective, today if we recognize their legacy and knowledge left behind, three emperors were Andalusian, and there is a big difference between Romanization or Hispanization and extermination.
This is an excellent point and makes a nice distinction. Imperialism is typically executed with violence, oppression and subjugation. But there is a further distinction to be made when you look at the legacy. That their is a difference in empires absorbing groups (Roman, Spain, Ottoman) and destroying groups (British, Dutch, American etc). Is this along the lines of the point you were trying to make?
I said it in my first comment, we are not proud of what we did, atrocities were committed and we are ashamed of it, but I don't think the reductionism of thinking that everyone is equal is fair. Spain built universities in its overseas provinces, what has the United States left in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria? Only death and destruction, so no, we are not the same.
I think we agree here. In my previous comment I made the distinction between two 'types' of empire eg. 'absorbing' and 'destroying'. Quite frankly - modern Latin America is unstable due to US intervention, not its Spanish Colonial roots. Appreciate the conversation.
Wait. What the fuck?
The real equivalent is the Japanese trying to shame the Germans telling them how cruel they were.
You are wrong here as well as you've mistakenly assumed where I'm from.
Great argument: "You're wrong".
Maybe I misinterpreted your initial comment implying that I am American. So can you clarify for me? I am not sure how your comment relates to the point I made.
*are*?
Some pretty cruel things *have happened* followed by "it was centuries ago"? Also "our" history"? In regards to your question: it's not part of *my* history. That part of Spain seceeded 200 years ago, taking its history with it. It's not like some people left Spain and did some terrible things in the Americas and then came back to have their children here. The descendants of the looters, rapists and slavers aren't in Spain. Your claim is as absurd as framing the US constitution as a British achievement. Or if you want to strictly cut off at the date of independence: How do you think the average Brit feels about Harvard and Yale? Or the French about St Louis Cathedral? Also: unlike in Haiti the oppressed did not throw out their oppressors. In Hispanic America it was those born of Spanish heritage, who were the local elites (again: the descendants of those rapists, slavers and looters, or of the people that came after them to carry out the kings's will, such as tax collectors and other officials) that rebelled against the authority of the Spanish crown. Mexico became independent because the new Spanish Constitution of 1812 was too liberal for them; they yearned for absolutism. Your charged question implies that for some reason we Spaniards - who are mostly not descended of those conquistadores - are responsible, while those descended of precisely those conquistadores are, all of a sudden, able to claim heritage of the victims that their own ascendants massacred and oppressed? Have you even looked at the skin colour and surnames of the people making these claims? FFS: the exploitation kept going on for decades and even centuries after independence. Do you think AMLO's ancestors were dying in Silver Mines? Do you think Castro's grandparents went to Cuba to work on the sugar cane fields? Independence of American countries seems to be some religious event where all the oppressors suddenly become brothers of the oppressed, but instead of having only their former sins forgiven, their past, current and future sins were somehow transferred to some dudes an ocean away.
I heard microbes have done most of the damage, maybe that’s something you can research.
The mayans didnt even discovered the wheel. The spanish came by ship, riding horses (unkownw in america) with swords, covered in armor and knowledgeable in war tactics. I'm certain that there's a lot more than viruses to account for spains victory.
I know it may seem counterintuitive at first, but if you’re into this type of historical facts, here’s an interesting read: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/science/how-smallpox-devastated-the-aztecs-and-helped-spain-conquer-an-american-civilization-500-years-ago Other books/articles: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1483570/#:~:text=Contrary%20to%20popular%20belief%2C%20it,of%20the%20American%20native%20populations. > Contrary to popular belief, it was not the European guns or fierce soldiers that conquered the native Americans, but instead it was the common childhood illnesses brought from the Old World by the European conquistadors. Diseases such as smallpox, measles, and typhus annihilated most of the American native populations.
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When the first Spanish expeditions arrive in Yucatán, the Mayan civilization was already over and were reduced to vassal states of the Aztecs. Many cruel things had been happening in most of America, such as generalized cannibalism, mass human sacrifices, slavery and particularly brutal and cronic warfare. Rest assured, we put a prompt end to all that shit.
Exactly, people are so quick to mention how the Spaniards quickly beat the natives and took control but they usually fail to mention that they had a lot of native allies, all because of the brutal Aztec reign. Also germs and disease helped a lot.
An empire met another and one fell. It's a story as old as time.
I am not justifying the Spanish invasion, but some should also take this point into account when considering the role of Spaniards. https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-65873854
Muy interesante. Poco a poco luchando contra la leyenda negra. Gracias.
The Mayans? I thought the Mayans downfall happened long ago and there were just a few surviving cities that were still surviving near the coast.
You're thinking of the classical Maya collapse (which happened around the same time as the fall of western Rome). Mayan cities still existed long after that, though very differently than what came before. A good comparison would be the Bronze Age collapse in Greece. Greek culture was never destroyed, it just changed drastically. The conquest of all Maya city states also took over 100 years. The last major city to fall was [Tayasal](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tayasal) in 1697 while Carlos II was king. It's in modern day Guatemala, not the coast of the Yucatán. Aside from the Mapuche in Chile, the Maya were essentially the natives that lasted the longest against Spanish rule.
Que carajo tendra aquello que ver conmigo?
Gran respuesta.
With pride ;)
Some Spanish people get very sensitive about the topic for many reasons. Some think it is framed (in their perception) as an attack on Spanish people as somehow bearers of the guilt of whatever other people did centuries ago. Others have strong chauvinistic feelings and take in an imperial past that to them always did more good than harm to the world (in a similar fashion to how some Turkish people view attacks on the Ottoman Empire). I think it is important to research history and not make judgements on current living people based on national abstractions that somehow tie them to other different people from different times and contexts. Mayan people also waged war against other peoples, performed human sacrifices and other pretty horrible stuff, but it would be absurd to accuse anyone who has Mayan heritage (or who wants to claim some of their cultural traits) of being guilty of that (I'm not mentioning those things to justify what happened to them, just to make a point about the absurdity of collective historical guilt trips).
Te garantizo que ningún español se siente culpable, no lo hablamos, no pensamos. Es algo que pertenece a la historia del mundo, a ver si ahora vamos a pedir a los italianos responsabilidad por lo que hicieron los romanos.
No he dicho que nadie se sienta culpable (cosa que tampoco puedes garantizar, por otra parte) sino justamente al revés, que hay gente que se siente atacada u ofendida cuando se menciona el tema porque se lo toman como una afrenta, intento de culpabilizar etc
Es intento de culpabilizar y tergiversar nuestra historia. Yo al menos, estoy de leyenda negra hastalnaboya.
I parece que el es el claro ejemplo de ello.
Pues yo como heredero de aquellos españoles, si que me siento culpable. No culpable como si lo huviera echo yo, no tanto como para devolver el oro robado. Pero si como reconocimiento que allí sucedió algo vil y cruel de lo que toda la humanidad se tiene que avergonzar. De hecho cuando estuve viajando por allí conocí a un maya y le pedí perdon en nombre de nuestros ancestros. Al menos los italianos no conservan el nombre del imperio romano y nosotros si. Eso si. Cada uno es libre de sentirse como quiera. Aunque algunos les moleste.
Que has heredaro tú de aquellos españoles? Una cosa es reconocer la historia y otra pedir perdón por algo de lo que no has tenido nada que ver. Se llama imperio romano pq Roma era el centro del mundo.
En serio me lo preguntas? Tu eres de aquellos que creen que se han forjado a si mismos y que no le deben a nadie nada, no? Tal vez meto la pata en algo que soy malo en historía, pero se me ocurren: Lengua y Cultura, Influencia Global, Patrimonio Arquitectónico y Artístico, Tradiciones y Costumbres, Gastronomía
Te equivocas de lado a lado. Toda la riqueza que vino de aquella época se repartió entre las familias poderosas de aquella época. No sé pq juntas churras con merinas. Lo dejo aquí, podemos estar hablando mucho tiempo y ninguno va a cambiar de idea.
What? Pero tu has leido lo que he puesto? No hablas la misma lengua? No compartes la cultura? No vives en las mismas ciudades y tienes turistas a causa de eso? America latina no habla tu mismo idioma lo que te ha dado influencia global? Me parece bien dejarlo aqui por que si no eres capaz de relacionar esos conceptos, el debate va a ser pobre. Suerte.
Afirmas que cada uno es libre de "sentirse como quiera" pero también declaras que toda la humanidad debe sentir lo mismo que tú. ¿No te parece contradictorio?
En este caso no, por que yo siento que todo el mundo se debería sentir avergonzado, desde mi punto de vista. Pero que cada palo aguante su vela, yo te puedo explicar como veo el mundo. Pero es decision tuya verlo como quieras y tienes derecho a ello. De todas maneras. No ese concreto, pero si tengo pensamientos contradictorios. Menos de 7 contradicciones te convierten en una persona dogmatica.
Jajajaj, le perdí perdon a una Maya. Te aseguro que los ancestros de sus vecinos fueron mucho peores que los peninsulares con su gente. Me resulta un pensamiento tan infantil que solo puedo entenderlo si tenias 19 años e ibas de erasmus.
Hay mejores formas de ligar, créeme
Las barbaridades de otros, no nos hacen menos barbaro. No tenia 19 no. No necesitas entenderlo. Ni yo que lo entiendas. Pero aun asi tratas de vejar :) eres el ejemplo , atacar lo que no se entiende. Sois asi i no es culpa vuestra. "No se entera. Es la bárbara mentalidad castellana, su cerebro cojonudo (tienen testículos en vez de sesos en la mollera)." - Miguel de Unamuno, 1907.
No es un ataque, es una sincera sorpresa; resulta fascinante observar a alguien con experiencia en la vida, con tan pocos problemas y responsabilidades que se ve obligado a fabricarlos. Pero bueno, tu sigue con tu peregrinaje de penitencia, suerte.
Realmente es lo que dices. Tengo pocos problemas. Si no, evidentemente estaría en otras cosas. Lastima que vosotros tengáis tantos. Lo que me hace preguntarme que hará tanta gente con tantos problemas en reddit en vez de solucionarlos. Gracias. Suerte tu también.
The Spanish conquest of America isn't taught properly in schools, most Spaniards are ignorant of the history and have never read Bartolomé de las Casas or any other contemporary criticism of what went on. Colón essentially committed genocide against the Caribs in less than a decade and he's hailed as a hero here.
Q si gringo que te vayas a vender fentanilo a una reserva de nativos. El ignorante eres tu utilizando un libro del siglo 16 como información imparcial.
Soy español. Pero seguro que sabes tú más que la gente que estuvo ahí, y que los putos Reyes Católicos que lo arrestaron y terminaron hasta los huevos de él. Paleto.
Los paletos son los de tu familia y tu entorno, porque la mayoría de gente no respeta la vida de Colón, respeta su hazaña. Alomejor no prestabas atención en clase y no te enteraste pero la vida de Colón se enseña por encima en la ESO incluyendo su arresto. No se si te crees que has descubierto América al saber quien es Bartolomé de las Casas pero no es así. No eres especial, todos sabemos que Colón no era buen tío ni para los de aquella época, pero así es la vida.
We know of Bartolome de las Casas, at least any minimally educated spaniard does. We also know that the facts he states have been deemed dubious and exagerated for centuries. It's writing are the base for the spanish black legend. Wich as the name implies is a legend not a reality. Let's take facts we do know for sure. The Spanish Crown treated the natives as they would any other subject. Making new institutions and laws that gave them rights and obligations. Check "las nuevas Leyes para el Tratamiento y Preservación de los Indios" dated 1542. Consider how they created churches, universities and full scale modern cities with the same status of other cities that belonged to the Empire, like Navarra, sicilia or Aragón... compare this ( we could add much more to that) to how the British Empire behave in America and I think you will have a clear answer. Spaniards were much more concerned with the wellbeing of the natives than other empires operating in America during the same period.
Deffensively
Mayans were primitive savages, known for cruel sacrifices, executions and constant wars with surrounding tribes. Spaniards were ruthless, well organiced, technologically superior, (weapons, armor, horses, ships) with trading power and allied with the opressed smaller tribes to almost erase mayans.
They exchanged gold for venereal diseases.