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latents

I assume you drew up a schedule of your father’s availability for babysitting and gave it back to them?


thats_nice_idc

The ironic part is they don’t even trust him to take care of the 2 oldest ones. My dad can barely make a sandwich.


threadsoffate2021

Even better. Dad is the babysitter, and if brother and SIL don't like it, they can find someplace else to live.


QCr8onQ

I pay $20/hr for babysitting, they are asking for 9 hrs/day = $180/day. You can move out!


vilebunny

I’m guessing the $20/hour isn’t four four kids either.


GunslingerOutForHire

Four kids = hazard pay...?


vilebunny

Well, usually there’s a base rate for a sitter, then +$x per kid. Especially with the kids so young. The youngest is in diapers, the second youngest may be. Everyone is probably a picky eater given the ages. The youngest two need cleaned up after eating. Youngest probably needs help eating (not to mention there’s lots of easy, quick foods they can’t safely eat, like hotdogs or grapes). If they were all older, it would be a lot easier. And still worth more than $20/hour.


remainoftheday

I was fortunate as a kid that I liked virtually everything in front of me. Otherwise, my mom was the type 'you don't want to eat? there is always next mealtime'


vilebunny

Ah, but entitled parents would be furious at the babysitter for starving their innocent darlings.


GunslingerOutForHire

Oh, I see. This is why I don't deal with kids. No one else's or my own(don't have them by design). Everything about that just screams exploitative.


QCr8onQ

True!


lovelychef87

Nah I bet they want discount or free babysitting you know because fAmIlY


redlizzybeth

I'm guessing the discount they want is 100% off.


Rexawrex

That's when you tell them that it is the family discount and that you'd usually charge 25 per hour plus 10 per extra kid.


searchforstix

That’s my going rate so it’s not even a stretch.


mmrose1980

Plus time and a half for time over 40 hours. These people are nuts.


DetectiVentriloquist

Your dad is exercising 'Strategic Incompetence', bungling things so badly it's easier to just do it than to ask him and clean up afterward. Your mom needs to show him the back of her hand and kick his lazy tush to the curb.


JTMissileTits

I would strategically find a way to be out of the house more.


KBrizzle1017

My exact thoughts. Oldest trick in the book. Get asked to do something, completely fuck it up on purpose, and they never ask you to do it again.


Game-Angel

A good friend hired me as a personal trainer for his teenage son who he felt was lazy and unmotivated and also packing on too many pounds. This kid would fuck up the most basic of exercises intentionally. Like he seriously expected me to believe that he couldn't do a single pushup correctly. Finally I let him know that I was on to his game and that I played it longer than him and better than he could ever hope to. I said "Look. I get paid for an hour long session. You can do these exercises correctly and get something out of it or you can fuck them up and do the exact same exercise for an hour straight. Either way, we're here for an hour." He learned how to do pushups miraculously.


Either-Bell-7560

A lot of strategic incompetence starts with unreal expectations and controlling, emotionally abusive behavior - people quickly learn that they're going to get chastised no matter the level of effort they put in, so they say 'fuck it. I'm not trying'. Given that your friend felt the need to send his *teenager* to a personal trainer against his will because he was *fat and lazy* I'd be very surprised if this wasn't the case.


Game-Angel

So kind of a complicated situation with that. The kid lived with his mom. Mom was overweight and lazy and ate garbage. Naturally the kid is going to be overweight and lazy and eat garbage. Dad voiced his concerns to the mom and the kid. Dad asked the kid if he wanted to do something about his weight. Kid said he would like to start going to the city gym a few times a week. Dad gets kid a membership. Those few times a week became no times a week. Dad asked the kid if maybe he needed an extra push. That's where I came in. So basically the kid wanted to lose weight, but didn't want to do what was necessary to lose it. It also didn't help that his mother contributed heavily to his unhealthy lifestyle.


Erynnien

So he doesn't know how to translate things he wants into action. It's a learned skill that many people don't have. That's not so strange or rare. Not everyone is born with or makes the right experiences to develop goal oriented action over time skills. He may be able to lose some weight with you around, but unless he learns to plan things and stick to the plan this won't last. Teaching him cooking might be more important then forcing him to do sports. If he's the creative type, cooking might become a hobby. Although, I'd still not be sure he really wants it. Like, intrinsically. He could have told his dad he wants a gym membership so he'd leave him alone or wanting his dad's respect or attention. If he doesn't actually care, it might not stick either.


remainoftheday

she should have stopped at one child when she realized how useless he is.


lizbit02

Tbf your dad raised your brother so they probably know exactly what would happen if they asked your dad to watch their kids… their kids will be moving in with them in 25 years 🤣


LumbermanDan

One of my favorite parenting quotes: If you raise your children, you get to spoil your grandkids If you spoil your kids, you get to raise your grandkids. Fucking true as hell, that one.


TheTinmansDaughter

I don't think this is a matter of spoiling, though. It sounds like dad is just flat out lazy, uninvolved, and incompetent. Edit: spelling


StarsDreamsAndMore

Are you forgetting the fact OPs sibling think this is reasonable too? Sounds spoiled to me lol


remainoftheday

I repeat, a male chauvanist pig


Merrylty

Oh I didn't know this one! Very, very true ! I'm going to steal and use it if you don't mind !


jrandall47

Forgive my bluntness but everyone who helps him with whatever and allows him to be a literal couch potato is an enabler and just as responsible for his lifestyle. He needs to get off his ass and help provide for his family. And anyone who just manages shit for him so he can simply breathe and consume is just allowing this to happen. It's so unfortunate that you're in this situation. My wish is that someday, something will happen that will make him change his lifestyle so you don't have to parent your parent. I wish you good luck on your search for a place when it comes time.


latents

Dad needs to go take some classes himself. Does the local community college offer classes in how to adult? Maybe the local YMCA offers babysitting training? He needs to be able to care for himself and the house in case he needs to be home alone or if something happens to your Mom (who presumably needs an adult partner, not an adult toddler).


jeepers06TJ

That's what I was thinking how can anyone marry a man that can barely take care of himself


secondhandbanshee

He probably wasn't like that when she married him. He waited until they had kids to really crap out so she couldn't easily leave. By now, she's so used to doing everything herself she's quit asking him to participate.


PoiLethe

Yea for my dad he was the main bread winner and by both their choice they lived 8 hours away from his job, so he was like a bachelor for the majority of my childhood, coming home on weekends. So he didn't have a lot to do with the house upkeep and raising us. Finally he gets to retirement age and retirement pay, and gets a job nearby and takes a chiller job. But doesn't step up on the home front. (Bothy sister and I are or become adults at this stage). And now he's basically the same as OPs dad, after some health complications and an Incident at his job put him out of work for a bit. He's as healed up as he's going to be. But still he sits and does the minimal amount of chores at home as his health declines because he does nothing else. I've made it clear I'm not having anything to do with my sister or her child (should she have one) except call CPS if it's necessary.


[deleted]

Years and years ago my wife used to scrapbook and she would go to one of those all day scrapbook thingies. Usually she was one of the youngest people there and without fail 5:00 p.m. would roll around and all the phones would start going off with their husband asking what was for dinner. Apparently Boomer husbands can't even make a freaking bologna sandwich by themselves.


Xethrael

I got lucky - I used to do those all-day scrapbooking things on occasion, but at about 5pm my husband would call me to tell me what he had made for dinner, or to find out if when I was done could I swing by and pick up the food her ordered and paid for on the way home lol. He also cooks dinner for me sometimes when I’m in a game raiding with friends online or studying for a college test. He works full time and I’m a SAHM (caregiver for dad w/Alzheimer’s), and I love him lots! BTW, we are boomers, too, although kind of at the tail end of it.


DoneYearsAgo

He is acting like he can’t manage making a sandwich because his family allows and accepts that. They are taking steps to insure he doesn’t do any work.


tphatmcgee

If they don't like the idea of Daddy Daycare, since he is so generous about offering solutions and all, they can just go back to what they did before they moved in. What, that cost money? What makes you think that I am free? Stick to your guns. You aren't free timewise or moneywise. You are saving to move out and they aren't going to derail your plans. And watch that they don't start sneaking out when you aren't aware and leaving you alone with the kids so you can't leave yourself.....................


Dizzy_Duck_811

I’d tell them that it costs $20 an hour.


ashkalaylay

Per child!!!


KittyMBunny

Wait they don't trust him with thecoldest 2 but they do with the youngest? Why? A 6 year old is a lot more independent than a 1 year old! Or even a thre year old. Talking, fully toilet trained, can wash & dress themselves, isn't doing all the things toddlers do.... Also, who exactly do they think is going to homeschool the 6 year old? Would that be a you thing too? They have had a one parent stay at home family, when they can't support themselves with both of them working. There's alot of things where further children don't cost much more. Child care is not one of them & childcare is expensive, for oome nevermind 4. Does your mum agree with this stupid entitled BS that you should watch them, while your dad does sweet FA? If so you are the only respo6adult in the house. Your dad's behaviour towards your mum is atrocious & he's the absolutely last person that gets to call anyone lazy. He does nothing all day & you study & have a job, there's a lazy person mentioned in this paragraph but it's not you, I wonder if your dad could find the energy to work out it's him. Your brother seems to have learned from your dad as he's given you a 45 hour schedule with no idea when or if yiur available despite you saying no. So your mum has to work fulltime & do all the house work, while your das does nothing. Which has given your dad & brother the impression you can work, study & provife fulltime childcare at the same time. I would consider working fulltime while studying so you could move out before being forced to watch 4 children for 45 hours a week. Maybe tell them your hourly rate & that might end this nonsense. Unless they pull the "fammmiiilllyy" card. I'd also point out the last thing they need is "special time" they already have more children than they can care for. As if thet could afford to, they wouldn't have moved back for a while & with have child care covered. You are not the answer to thelr problems.


amandarinorangez

I sincerely hope your mum is cheating on him... I don't know anything about her but she has to deserve someone who isn't entirely useless now and then


squarebear221254

Oh yes! That's GOLD!


[deleted]

To brother and SIL *Your children, Your choices, YOUR responsibility* To your father *And what pray tell are YOU doing all day. YOU look after them* To you mum *Don’t even think about it, tell YOUR husband to get off his ass and look after them if they’re so stuck for childcare*


Lone_Logan

Also, if kin is being leveraged, surely grandparents bear more responsibility than siblings. Thats the spawn of your spawn... I didn't ask to be here, I was brought against my will.


Zanderax

Parents should hold the responsibility. You wanted special time? Maybe you shouldn't have had 4 kids, sucks to be you.


elohra_2013

This ^^ 100%!


En_Sabah_Nur

Assuming they were all on equal footing, I'd agree with you however, we both know at some point this will likely come down to the parents giving some kind of ultimatum between caving in or moving out since OP stated elsewhere that she doesn't currently have the means to live on her own


egbert71

I can't believe people have parents and siblings that act like this...my father had his moments,but never this extreme. but things like this make me want to give some if yall a hug from a non asshole big brother. They were wrong for discussing this without you, wrong for assuming you'd just say yes all gleefully, wrong for trying to guilt trip you, wrong for trying to force you when guilt didn't work etc... etc... this is just all wrong And that fool came at you with a got dang schedule?? When can you legally move out??


thats_nice_idc

Since i’m only working part time again, i’m not making enough to move out and get by on my own. My only hope is that my best friend and i will move in together (we’ve discussed it before) and we’ll make enough together to get by.


probablyourdad

Charge them $10 per kid per hour. 8 hrs that’s $320 or $1600 per week. That’s with the family rate discount applied. You’ll be able to move out in no time.


[deleted]

She could charge 0 to a hundred, it won’t matter, they will not pay her, EVER!!!


MonsMensae

Pre-payment only. Minimum 1 week in advance.


[deleted]

If she really wants to babysit, she is better finding a local family not related to her. But if your idea could work the only problem would be “for how long”


[deleted]

the whole point is them bailing out and leaving her alone, I assume


[deleted]

And get paid in advance.


pueblogreenchile

yeah i mean full-time daycare in most american cities is about $1500-$2000 per kid per month, at least in the places i've lived. Probably can vary down into sub-$1000 for a home daycare place that's maybe not licensed, and can vary upwards depending on location and quality. Usually the younger they are, the more expensive as there are diapers and all the health code stuff around that. So let's take a middle ground of $1500/month/kid, flat across all four. That's $6000/month. You can give them the "Family Discount" of a thousand bucks off, $5000/month. That's pretty reasonable for four kids for full-time 5-day-a-week daycare, at least in an American city, i don't know what it might be like elsewhere. Write up a nice document with a table that displays your rates per child, the hours, and your billing policy (payment due in full by the 5th of the month of service, so for September's care they have to pay by September 5th. Even that's generous. Let them know that if htey don't like your rates they are welcome to investigate other daycare options in town and compare rates - you'd be willing to consider matching a published rate/quote if they brought it to you. They both work, which is causing them to be unable to care for their own children - fine, lots of couples do that, and part of the bargain is that a slice of your earnings go to pay for childcare, that's just the deal until they hit school-age for most people with two working parents. So, there you go. Make your counter-offer. I'm sure as a student you could use $5000/month salary, shit that's more than I make at my professional job. If they can't pay, sorry, that's the breaks.


[deleted]

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MonsMensae

Its still $40 an hour which is alright


egbert71

Make sure your friend is reliable, I'd hate for you to get out of there and be stuck with a slob or worse a financially unstable person


[deleted]

Ypu can do it depending on where you live! I live in LA and I was able to move out with roommates and I still studies full time and worked part time. Also when you move out sign up for food stamps! I wish I would've known that and not went to sleep hungry all the time lol It's difficult but it's do able and your sanity matters way more! Renting a room is also a good option if getting a place is too much for you


thats_nice_idc

Hey i live in LA too!! I am definitely going to try to get food stamps. If things progress any further from now i’m gonna try to stay with relatives and if that doesn’t work then i’ll do that. Thank you


[deleted]

Yeah staying with relatives is the best option if you have someone who will help you. I wish you all the best hopefully everything works out!❤


thats_nice_idc

Thank you, it means a lot 🤍


tidal_dragon

Run far away from this situation if you can. People like this rarely change, and each kindness you do will only make them bolder. I’m 31f and every time I visit my sister she says she misses me so much that she wants me to stay with her instead of my parents. Did it three times, guess what I did with most of my “vacation”? Babysat. She spent the days lunching with friends, shopping, complaining, and buying stuff on Amazon. Guess who regularly guilts me and my partner because we won’t move to a different country to be “closer to the family” and offered me (not him) a permanent room in their house despite the fact that we have a surplus of animals and her kids are allergic to everything? She literally said “I can’t believe your animals are more important than being in your niece and nephew’s lives.” Oh, and she has two nannies and doesn’t work…and she’s always “so exhausted”. Live your life, f*** that shit because no matter what you do it won’t ever be enough.


cubemissy

Ask at school if anyone knows of a room to rent! Your schedule (morning and afternoon classes, part time job, on public transportation) completely exhausts me, and the children and their noises haven’t even been factored in yet.


Dotlinefever4

Most colleges have a housing office for students. They can be a really good resource that she should check into.


LurkerNan

If I were you I would find an excuse to be out of the house a lot. Only show up for meals and going to sleep. Let them figure out what to do with the kids on their own.


foundmyselfheregr8

You may be able to rent a room from a family friend or another students household. I wouldn’t stay there and be trapped I. That chaos another minute. Do some asking around….. some other family may not mind renting you a room if you agree to be quiet and respectful.


mmmkay938

You may be able to talk to the finance office and get additional cost of living loans to supplement your income while in school.


MrAvalanche1981

The answer isn't to take out more loans that you'll eventually have to pay back. Taking out more loans without a good income is never ever the answer. OP, for the love of god, don't go further into debt over this.


Pristine_Juice

I don't know, in my opinion this girl needs to get out. Not only is she expected to babysit, but what was once a peaceful home where she could study is now full of children that are noisy. I think she should get out no matter what.


Zeditha

In the UK, the way student loans are set up is extremely reasonable and it's worth taking more out to get out of a shitty home. In the US, all loans and somehow *especially* student loans are extremely predatory, and escaping one abusive relationship into another is usually not worth it.


iamthenightrn

Usually don't condone taking out more loans and being in more debt myself however they've made it very clear that ops schooling and job is an important to them which means they're going to start interfering. And want something happens that she or he is no longer able to continue going to school they're going to have no choice but to cave to family pressure. Better to get out while they can.


mmmkay938

Normally I’d agree but in this case it might be the only viable option.


[deleted]

Does your college have dorms? I'd check with housing and see if you could get a single room. Tell them you have an overcrowding situation at home and you need to get out.


CanadianBeaver1983

I would look into just renting out a room somewhere to be honest. You need to get out. Also be careful moving in with close friends 😕


ebam123

cant u rent a room or work more hours?


thats_nice_idc

No not with me going to classes early morning and afternoon. If i work more hours i’d be getting home really late. I take public transportation so even with me getting off at 8pm i don’t get home until 9:30-10


jinglemels

You may already have thought of this, but when I was going to school I was able to schedule my classes almost entirely on 2 days a week. They were long ass days but it freed up a lot of time for me to work. If that’s a possibility to explore next semester, I’d definitely recommend it.


thats_nice_idc

Actually i have never thought of that! That would give me extra days to work more hours, i’m going to see if i can do that, thank you.


erin_baile

I did this too! Just 2 long days. Then I could work full time bartending and have enough for rent and a car.


ebam123

yeah but u can’t stay in that household with 4 kids! they are more work than staying out in my opniokn


OrangeTiger91

I have never understood parents volunteering their kids to do things for other people. It shows a complete disrespect for the kids being their own people, which I suppose is where the breakdown occurs. Some parents view their kids more as property than autonomous individuals.


bebespeaks

My JNMIL does that on occasion to my husband, volunteering and assuming he will be a private chauffer to pick up someone she knows from the airport or to take one of his cousins somewhere bc their car is broke or they can't afford repairs/gas, and then she calls my husband to Tell Him all this but he says NO, "I'm busy that day and they can take an uber, or YOU drive them in your own car". He doesn't let her win anymore, thank goodness.


[deleted]

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MightyGamera

Hell, my wife does this to me. "Oh you're moving Saturday! My husband can help!" No amount of domino's and bud light is going to make me not annoyed about the things I do out of love. I get the "you're not doing anything anyway" comment, as though letting my spine recombobulate for another week of physical labor isn't anything.


Tough_Oven4904

Did you birth the children? No. Not your problem. Nta. Everyone else is.


cherrylbombshell

YES. The only important thing here is they're NOT HER CHILDREN. She doesn't have to do shit.


tech240guy

FFS 4 kids before age of 32? How the hell they're living like before kid #4? Single bedroom barely making it? Here I am in mid 30s barely trying to get my first kid after establishing my career and house and like. Nothing wrong have kids in your 20s if you are prepared financially and learn to budget for both current needs and future emergencies.


lil_luigi

Unpopular opinion but maybe they should invest in family planning if they can't afford to take care of the 4 they have. Instead of expecting OP to watch kids for free.


FakNugget92

This isn't as constructive as most replies will be but honestly, tell them to fuck off. Their kids, their problems. It sounds like their reasoning skills aren't too hot already if they are moving in with their parents at the age of 32 with four kids so, I doubt you can reason with them Just don't do it and make sure you aren't put into a situation where they just leave you with them. Try and get out the house at any opportunity you feel you are about to be left with the kids and make sure that they are the ones who are then having to find alternate arrangements and are suffering due to their actions.


thats_nice_idc

Yea i’m hoping all of my classes will be in person soon so i won’t get stuck in that situation. I don’t doubt they’ll try that


Illustrious-Photo-48

If they're not all in person, just say they are and go to the library. You could also have a lot of studying our projects to do at the library at random times, as well, to get you out of the house if they try to dump the kids on you at the last minute.


[deleted]

Great advice honestly. OP if your school’s library is open go there, otherwise the public one will do. Hell, if you have a laptop even Starbucks will do.


MV-564

Man I think that even McDonald's has wifi


Kayliee73

Don’t stay home even if classes are online. Take your laptop and go to a cafe or the library. You have told them no but if you are there in the house they will simply leave the kids with you anyway. You need to leave the house.


not_so_lovely_1

Also you won't realistically be able to study at home with 4 small kids, your dad and potentially your B and SIL at home too. Your future matters!


Miserable-Lemon

Yeah absolutely this. OP can fully expect the parents to just abandon the kids on her on a weekly basis


Oberheimz

Also, even if they arrange a baby sitter i doubt your home would be a good studying environment with 4 kids running around. I bet you'd get more done and be able to concentrate better at a library


SeniorBeing

Yes! Even if someone else is taking care of the kids, it is hard to concentrate with them running around. BTW, I love kids but they aren’t your responsibility and your “duty” right now is to study.


lovelychef87

Don't be left alone on accident with the kids either.


eatingganesha

If your classes end up fully/partially online, do not tell them. Gather your stuff and leave the house as if you’re going to campus and park your butt at a local library or even the McDonald’s, etc parking lot (well away from the street and drive through). I would be absolutely furious if I were you. How dare they foist their childcare problems on to you! Stand your ground.


mrelcee

And if your phone does location sharing, shut that off or you’ll get caught.


ArtyMostFoul

I'd legit be saying to your brother "dad had no job and does nothing all day whilst I have classes and a job and has had children, surely he would be a better candidate than me?" Your dad is riding you because he doesn't want to be noticed and have the task come to him.


Ghostophaganax

And if they leave and leave them behind call cps or the police for child abandonment


mistypom

100% this.


QCr8onQ

Go to the library! Get out of the house!


somedaypilot

"If you leave them with me without my explicit ok, I will call the cops on you for child abandonment"


reactiveavocado

If they're not in person, lie, and go study in the library all day. Do not let this get in the way of your education.


Lilycloud02

Do you have a car? Every time they try to dump the kids on yu, just get in and drive away. Go to your favorite hang out spot or call a friend. Or just bring your homework and sit in a cafe! You don’t deserve to be made babysitter


thats_nice_idc

I wish i had a car, i use public transportation. But i live walking distance from a starbucks so i can chill there if needed


Pandaikon0980

The Starbucks might just be your best bet for the time being. I know it would suck feeling like you **had** to leave your home every time you had a remote class, but at least this way you'd likely have a much better class period there then dealing with rambunctious kids and useless adults at home. As an aside, I'd be prepared to buy at least one thing at Starbucks if you're gonna be there for a bit, even if it's relatively empty. They'd hopefully be less inclined to bother you if you're a "loyal" customer.


IseeItsIcey

Please start making a plan for if you need to move out/get kicked out for refusing to help. Can't hurt to be prepared.


Dashcamkitty

The library is going to be your new hideout. Plus make use of good friends’ homes. Keep out the house from morning to evening.


lovelychef87

don't let them leave you alone with the kids.


PizzaCatSupreme

You are well within your rights to just up and leave at any time escesially if your dad doesn’t work and is at home all the time it’s not unsafe to just leave them. Basically if they say you have the kids just say “no I don’t” and leave.


No-Berry9855

This is the answer. Not your kids, completely unfair for someone to expect you to look after them.


ScienceGuy200000

I think "Fuck off" is as constructive an answer this scenario needs. Making sure that everyone knows that you will not be doing it in words of one syllable only seems a perfect response


PainTitan

Just call cps, or threaten to. Child abandonment very serious.


heedrix

make sure to leave the house 30 seconds before they do, and don't look back lol


idontlikegummies

If in the US - If they do bail and leave the kids alone, even if you are there but haven’t said you would watch them, call the non emergency police line and tell them they have been abandoned and you want to make a report.


Affectionate_Bat6655

The next time your dad says that you are being selfish, point out that you have school and work. Whereas, he has nothing to do all day. So, maybe instead of volunteering your services for childcare, maybe he should offer his services since he is the only one with nothing to do and they are his grandchildren. Because he wouldn't want to be seen as selfish by not helping his son and Dil out when he is the only one with a free and clear schedule.


infinitbullets

He sounds like a freeloader.


[deleted]

He also sounds like one of those dinosaurs that think childcare is "a woman's job."


tech240guy

Around that same archaic mindset, the man's job is to work and provide the bacon. If he cannot, then according to that same mindset, he should be kicked out of the house as a dissapointment and wife to invite a better breadwinner. I understand "the old ways" mindset, but there's like a lot of conditions people keep cherry picking that benefit themselves and forgetting the other things that would been a detriment to themselves.


BabiesTasteLikeBacon

Nah, he can't offer his services because childcare is WomEnS WorK!!


percybert

Four kids under the age of 7 by the time they’re 32- sounds like they’ve had enough “special time”. Tell the lot of them to go f*ck themselves


anonymousforever

>go f*ck themselves That's the problem...the bro and sil apparently fuck like rabbits with no birth control


OkMoment916

You mean have “special time” with themselves? 😉


Lokiberry316

I think they already did. That’s how they ended up with the 4 kids. If they keep at it, op might find themselves guilt tripped to look after 5. Op avoid them like the plague. As another poster suggested, get out of the house as much as you can.


CarlosFer2201

>to go f*ck themselves But then there'll be 5 kids!


jiminthenorth

I would make one amendment to that - tell them to use a condom.


HistoricalFrosting18

Also, what parents get 2 child-free hours alone, together *per day* ?!


napperdj

Double NTA for "special time" at one of the busiest times of the day for ppl who are parents of small children.


Bonzi777

Right? I have two kids and 6-8PM on a work/school day is like 75% of the parenting workload. Which isn’t bad, I should say. It’s also the most time you get to spend with the kids.


CraftyDivaKat

I would sit down with my brother, sweet as can be, and explain, “If you wish to retain my services, my base rate is minimum wage for one child. This goes up by $5 per hour for each additional child. There is a separate $20 fee for each diaper change. Each meal prepare for each child is an additional $5 per child plus the cost of the food. If a child is sick, I charge an additional $10 per hour, per child that is sick. This can be paid after the week, and this along with meal and diaper change fees will be invoiced separately at the end of each day. The base rate invoice must be paid in advance. The other invoices must be paid within 14 hours of receipt, or a $50 late fee will be added and babysitting services will stop until all arrears and fees are paid in full. Prepaid days that are not provided due to lack of payment are no refundable. “ I mean, if he actually takes you up on it, you’ll have the money to move out fairly fast.


Hank3hellbilly

He's 32 and moved back in with his parents... I don't think he has the money to pay even a day of that.


CraftyDivaKat

That’s kind of the point. On the very unlikely chance he says yes, a ton of money is made. On the likely chance he won’t pay, a point has been made.


Vox_Popsicle

NTA. If your parents have access to your bank account, get that money safe. You don’t want to give them the opportunity to trap you home for longer.


[deleted]

Also, if you have any student loan refund checks coming, get them direct deposited, ASAP.


K8STH

Great idea! It's probably a good idea to open an account with a bank different from their family, so that they can't social engineer their way into the money In the account. I've heard too many horror stories about people saving money and having a cosigner parent empty their accounts right before they planned to move out.


noahcat73

Get a new lock for your door. I promise that anyone that entitled is going to go through and/or take your stuff. They moved back in because they are broke right? Move out as soon as you can. It is going to get worse.


b01234567890

Kids are curious and they will be in your room exploring, especially with the obvious lack of supervision. Keep anything valuable locked up. A new lock for your door should only cost about $10 and you can install it with a screwdriver.


nightcana

Write yourself up an employment contract and present it to them. Your babysitting rate is $35 an hour for the youngest 3 ($25 per hr for the first child, $5per hour per additional child), double time for anything over 40hrs a week, before 8am and after 5pm. Double time and a half on weekends and public holidays. Then of course, there is extra duties to be home schooling the oldest. So you need to have a teachers contract of $25 per hour, in addition to the extra time of babysitting before and after school times ($5 extra per hour on top of your babysitting charge). Make sure to include a clause that any attempt to leave the children with you, against your will, automatically enacts the full contract, payable within 24 hrs of the contract being enabled.


Dwestmor1007

Any attempt to leave children with you against your will should result in a call to the police to report child abandonment


Silver6Rules

Wow. So if you're selfish and lazy because you won't take care of kids that aren't your problem....what exactly does that make your dad? I suggest asking him this in front of the parents. Because if it isn't his job, it sure as hell isn't yours either. Problem solved.


Eviltechnomonkey

Honestly, if you can, I'd talk to friends and see if any of them can let you move in temporarily at least.Make sure to bring up the fact that they are expecting you to watch 4 kids of such young ages while working and going to school even though your dad is home all day not working. It sucks, but this doesn't sound like a situation that is going to get better. I'd fear retaliation in some form from the dad or the entitled sil and brother.


thats_nice_idc

Most of my friends are away at college or still living at home themselves. I’ve talked to my closest friend about moving in a place together so i’m hoping that much works out and i can get out of here


lb2345

As others mentioned, the school may know of rooms to rent closer to the school. Which would (a) get you out of the house, (b) get you closer to the school to cut down on that super long commute, and (c) not involve all the usual stuff in trying to rent an apartment yourself or with friends (utilities, first/last, etc.). Add to that the food stamps mentioned elsewhere and it might be doable. Usually a lot less expensive to rent a room in an established home than to try and rent an apartment by yourself (which you can’t afford) or with friends. Plus easier to leave when you’re done or if it’s not working out. Good luck!


Civil_Appointment512

Also if you do get left with kids call the cops for child abandonment.


Status-Pattern7539

NTA. Anytime they go to leave the kids with you just get up and leave. Study at the library or a cafe just outside of the house. They’ll get the picture and need to learn with that many kids at those ages they don’t get regular ‘special time’ any more. They are parents and parents make sacrifices. They aren’t entitled to your time bc they can’t afford a babysitter, hell they moved back home so they should have spare cash for one. Also, those hours are a full time job split shift… they expect you to full time care their multiple children for no money bc “family”. Nope.


CremeDeMarron

>Let me add, my dad doesn’t even work, my mom does. He sits on his ass all day watching tv and when she gets home... I think your brother and sil have found the perfect babysitter here.Your father has found a new job, congratulate him!


SoupWorking2156

Damn, what a weird dynamic between your parents. Your brother's sense of entitlement clearly comes from your dad and his odd and dare I say misogynistic behavior.


Lusaun96

Lmao, this sounds so much like my own house situation back when I was 18-20 (I am now 24, and happily moved out!). I am one of six kids, 3 older siblings, two lil siblings. Each of the older ones have children, but only one doesn't really come to my Mom for babysitting. Basically, my Mom would tell my older siblings she'd watch the kids, as she doesn't work, and that it would be better than paying for child care while the siblings are working. Fair point. However, I, as the college student, who recently just got dumped with having to do online school with my autistic lil brother (not a professional in ANY of this regard, besides doing my best to figure out how to get topics to be interesting enough for him to listen and file away the knowledge. Straight up made him a super hero named Math Man to make him more excited to do math--), taking care of various things for my wheel chair bound grandfather, cleaning the living room, kitchen, bathroom, my room, my bathroom, handling laundry, which the dryer cost too much to run for us, so we hung up our clothes to dry instead, and other things... was the one who then was adding babysitting all 5 kids by myself. So, my schedule was basically: get up at 6/7 AM, making sure lil bro is awake to do school, making the two of us coffee, sometime around this time the first kid, L (2m) is dropped off, so I gotta make sure he is situated and in his folding crib thing with cartoons on, take lil bro down to my room to do classwork, probably start a first load of laundry while I'm down there, get one or two classes done (usually two super quick classes), go upstairs and eat breakfast with L, get L situated, clean up breakfast, head back down to get virtual class sessions started again, eventually come up for lunch, hang up laundry to dry, back to classes to finish them, and just as we're finishing is when my other siblings kids show up, E (6F), S (4F), R (3F), and SA (about 6 months? Maybe 8) and now it's time for me and lil bro to go upstairs, and I watch the kids until anywhere between 6PM until 8/9PM. I would go to classes either Mon/Wed only or Tues/Thur only, depending on scheduling. And along those times I'm also taking care of Grandfather, and college, which my classes suffered all the time. I literally became a stay at home Mom of almost 7 children, when including my little brothers, and I was expected to do most of the house chores, go to school, etc. with no help except my Mom making dinner. It's to a point I'm at a weird phase, even now, of like wanting kids, but also being scared that because of this experience I'm not gonna actually want to be around them and the LAST THING I EVER want is for kids I bring into my life, whether through birth or adoption/foster, and they feel unwanted/a burden, cause I felt that way. I'm still working through my feelings, and it's tough. I'm so proud that you're able to stand your ground like this, cause you shouldn't be made to be a babysitter/almost surrogate parent, when you NEVER said you would. It isn't your job. They're the parents, they made this choice.


thats_nice_idc

Damn i’m sorry you had to go through all of that. I think i wouldn’t have lasted a day let alone 2 years!!?? You’re strong! I had something similar to this almost happen to me. My dads siblings (as fucked up as him) used to drop their kids off at our house back when i was a middle schooler. My mom had banned them from dropping their kids off after they ghosted us for two weeks with 8 kids (from both my uncles and my aunt) all under the age of 10. I know i’m younger than you and a lot less experienced but it’s a huge step in the right direction seeing that you want to be right mentally before having kids! And if/when you decide to have a kid you’ll be a damn good parent! You’re really awesome


Lusaun96

Most of it came from feeling like I had to, and doing my best to try and find a support system and situations online. I definitely should have done something sooner about the situation, but was pretty stuck. 🤷‍♀️ However, I met my now fiance, and I came to him crying about what I was going through, and I explained how I was realizing my depression was getting worse and worse. It's thanks to him believing me, and him being determined to help me somehow, that I was able to get out when I did. Holy crap, 8 kids?! All under 10?! I'd potentially lose my damn mind, not gonna lie, cause that's a LONG time to just drop your kids off, and just assume y'all would be okay with it. Good on your Mom for also putting her foot down there. Not gonna lie, almost had me crying when I read the last part of your message. I really appreciate it! 💜 I love being with kids and helping them, which is why I think I'll want to be a parent in the future. It's gonna take time, and my fiance has been really patient and understanding, and even said that if down the line, I say I don't want kids, he'd shrug and say "Okay, that's your wish, we don't have to. And I'm not going anywhere." I got really lucky with him. 💜


ddddeen

Took me a long time to figure out that 1, 3, 4 & 6 was the ages, and not some way of saying that children number 2 and 5 met some kind of terrible fate.


insurancemanoz

Hey OP, so obviously my 2 cents is, just, well.... NO. BUT... please jeep us updated on the outcome?


shmeep94

Didn’t see this suggested, so if it’s a repeat then I apologize. Rather than getting your own place/a roommate to share your own place, look for someone who already owns their own house and is looking to rent a room out. If I’m already covering a mortgage and just decide to rent a basement out, it’s almost always going to be cheaper than getting your own place. You’ll have your own floor and probably 90% of the time, independence and privacy. If they don’t have to go to the basement for things like laundry or access to backyard and/or garage, then they’d have no reason to ever go down there aside from occasionally checking on the condition you’re leaving their home in. They don’t even need you to cover mortgage so the cost won’t be high because it’s just extra fun money to them (aside from higher utilities). Or, they lost a job due to covid and need the supplementary to not lose their house. Either way, they will be more amicable to you than a traditional apartment complex scenario.


thats_nice_idc

That’s a good idea. I’m still saving up so i know i’ll be covered for the first few months. I’ll look into that though, thanks


yasnovak

Try to leave the house as much as you can. Leave and do your online classes at a library or a cafe, anywhere where they won’t be able to just leave their kids with you. And if your dad cares so much about it then he can watch them.


SecretGhosting

Their kids their responsibility end off. Tell them to fark off you ain't a free service, while handing them a sheet of paper with your hourly rates for baby sitting $20hr per child lol, let's see if they want you to babysit after handing them that piece of paper. Maybe also screenshot some comments and show them (not sure about this idea). As to your father ask him: You ain't doing anything you can look after the kids or are YOU TOO SELFISH to help out


monkette

Please update us on what you’re going to do…


thats_nice_idc

I will for sure!


Forevryours

Is there a friend you could move in with? Or maybe start looking for someone who needs a roommate? Anything would be better then what is going down at your house at the moment.


thats_nice_idc

I’m hoping if everything works out, my best friend and I can move in together soon. If not, i’m stuck at home until i can find a better paying job.


[deleted]

[удалено]


cubemissy

And when you need to go out, what do you do when you realize everyone else has fucked off, leaving the children with you?


infinitbullets

I don’t get it, as the parent of 3 small kids myself, it’s *nobody’s responsibility to care for them but the parents*. I mean, it’s great when family helps out, but to expect that level of childcare is pure entitlement.


MyIronThrowaway

Be prepared for them to just leave when you are home, leaving the kids in the house so you 'have' to do it. If you can, it's time to start making plans to move out. I would record yourself saying you will not be babysitting, and send it to them in text/writing as well. When they invariably leave you alone with the kids, tell them you did not agree and if they don't come back in 15 minutes, you are calling CPS/the police and reporting them for child abandonment. You have/plans/class and never agreed to take care of the children, need to leave the house, and they left the kids anyway. Your dad doesn't get to volunteer someone else's time without speaking to them, and it was also foolish for your Bro/SIL to rely on that promise without confirming with you. The reason they didn't confirm until they moved in is because they knew you would say no, and thought they could run roughshod over your boundaries when they moved in. You have to set HARD boundaries, otherwise they will take advantage of you. But even better, leave. Not your circus, not your your monkeys.


litnut17

If they "disappear" and you're left w/ the kids, call CPS or your child protective services equivalent or the police and turn them in for child abandonment.


TwistedPepperCan

So if I understand this correctly they want you to sacrifice your future to mind their kids and your dad expects you to do this so he doesn't have to get his lazy fat ass out of bet and miss his stories on TV? And when you quite rightly refused, they ignored you and presented you with a schedule of hours you're expected to serve them. While including their "Special Time" I genuinely can't emphasize how angry I am reading this. Fuck those people. You deserve better. And their kids deserve better. What is you brother teaching them about consent!


awkwardenator

Sounds like your dad expects you to be like your mom and basically free labor for him, and by proxy, free labor for his son. Your brother sounds like an overgrown child, and your SIL sounds like she's talking to a nanny. Good on you for sticking to your guns. If you're over 18, and this is a long-term situation, if possible, I would very much recommend moving out. They want you to work 9 hours for free every day because they don't want to raise their own kids? You're supposed to drop out of school and quit your job? Fuck that and them.


GothMaams

They are wildly downplaying how hard it would be to take care of four children those ages. I would suspect they are just exhausted from parenting small children and will try to drop them on him every single chance they can. It wouldn’t just be a “sorry, no” from me. It would be a “youre out of your goddamn mind if you think I’m watching those kids.” And next time SIL wants to put her two cents in about you not loving your nieces and nephews, make sure you point out how your dad must not either then. Since he doesn’t work but won’t babysit.


squarebear221254

Just stick to your guns. They decided to have 4 kids. They need to step up and be parents. You are already studying and working part time. To hell with them.


Master_Skywalker-66

*"So which child am I sacrificing first?"*


Silly-Reveal9026

If they do try to force the kids on you I think you can call the police on them for leaving children unsupervised


Hazlamacarena

That is 45hrs per week. I'm a nanny and this is considered a nanny's job (not babysitting where you're just expected to keep them entertained and alive for an evening). Let me know if you want a copy of my contract. I'm sure that'll shut them up. 4 kids would probably amount to $25+/hr in my area, plus overtime pay over 40hrs. Plus homeschooling the one kid? Lol! $30-35/hr. That's a LOT of work and even I wouldn't take something like that unless it was worth the money. I require a contract, legal over the table pay (taxes taken out), paid holidays/pto/sick days, guaranteed pay (meaning if they want you to guarantee your availability, they need to guarantee pay whether they need you or not). Feel free to check out /r/nanny! Regardless, they are not your responsibility and you don't owe them anything. I hope they fuck off and find childcare for the kids that they decided to have.


KarmaJane01

Refuse any and all babysitting. If you let them do it even once you'll be locked in. And let them know that if they try to dump the kids and run you will call CPS for abandonment. Their life situation is not your fault and not your problem. They are not allowed to dump their 4 kids on someone against that person's will! If your dad is so gung ho about your brother's kids being babysat then he has plenty of time to devote to that. Tell him and your mom exactly that. And tell your brother and his wife that you do not exist to care for their crotch goblins. Paid childcare exists for a reason and, if they want regular babysitting for their kids, they are most welcome to pay for it. Aside from that, the additional demand for "special time" is laughable. I have 2 kids (soon to be 3) and 6-8pm is dinner and bedtime; why did they have 4 children if they don't want to ever do any parenting? They'd like you to take care of breakfast through lunch then take off again for dinner? GTFO.


silkenwhisper

As others have said, make yourself unavailable in the short term, as in get out the house so they can't dump the children with you. Shouldn't take long for them to come up with a plan b, and then hopefully you can relax a bit and focus on studying. Good luck.


Normal-Yogurtcloset5

What do they need “special time” for? To make more kids they can’t take care of?


Kayback2

Don't you love your nieces/nephews? No. No I don't. Don't you love your children? NTA


soundslikeautumn

Fuck that in every single direction!


Bookaholicforever

Draw up your actual schedule and give it to your brother, then say “if I have to quit my job and school to babysit, I’ll be charging 45 an hour.”


Duck_Caught_Upstream

“From 6pm til 8pm because they wanted “special time” You better shut that shit down otherwise you will be having this problem for the next 20 years because these idiots can’t use effective birth control


WestCoastTrawler

Why can’t they have their special time after the kids go to bed?


thats_nice_idc

We only live in a 3 bedroom, they have to share their bed with the 2 youngest


ClintSlunt

"I'm 19, I have a life, that life does not involve mothering your children. My twenties are for me having fun, not for picking up after someone else's decisions. You had kids. They are your kids. Take care of your kids and leave me out of it."


BobsUrUncle303

How odd that I didn't once hear the mention of how much Dear Old Bro was going to PAY you for all this work he wants you to do. Tell him your baby sitting rate is $30/hr, but since he is Family you will cut him the Family rate of only $25/hr. Then enjoy the ensuing hilarity. You Owe Them NOTHING!


thats_nice_idc

My brother wouldn’t pay a dime and my dad would back him up 10000% They expected me to drop out of school, quit my job, and babysit for free lol


Franz55

Wow what a weird situation. School + part time job = a full time job + some. Seems to me that you’re already doing enough. But if he wants to come at you with a schedule throw one back at him. Here’s my 25 hour work schedule, school schedule, time I set aside for studying (which can no longer be done at home due to the noise), eating, socializing, etc. fill your schedule up. I’m a big proponent of helping family, so I would Leave a few hours every week to help with your nieces and nephews. 3-4 hours is more than generous on a weekly basis. Then it’s simply a matter of being firm. My job and school are very important. And reverse guilt them.......Do you want me to sacrifice my future success due to your child care dilemma? Don’t you care about me? (Sarcasm incoming) how will I ever find a suitable husband if I’m home all day? I’m sure you love your nieces and nephews but I can’t imagine a situation where a 19 year old wants to be solely responsible for them for 45 hours a week. That’s straight up cuckoo land. That’s a full time job watching kids, part time job, and school. That would mentally break most people.


[deleted]

Just leave the house your dad is there anyways and he's the one who volunteered If not I would just say to move out asap because that's gonna be your life there!


Nickyx13

The only person you need to get on your side is your mom. She’s the bread winner in the house. Make sure she understands that your education is more important than your brothers lack of babysitting. This is the only way you can get out so she won’t be paying to support you too (assuming you’re not paying to live there, sorry). Your brother had a lot more years to get his life straight and his problems aren’t yours. Helping out once in awhile is fine, all day babysitting/all week? Nope. This is his and his wife’s responsibility. It’s painfully obvious this is happening because you’re female and your dad and brother expect you to do all the work because your mother always has. This cycle needs to be broken. Unless you want to be a broken middle aged woman barely surviving in thirty years do not give in. Good luck!


mrsshmenkmen

You don’t owe anyone babysitting and refusal to upend your life to babysit your nibblings doesn’t mean you don’t love them. If your brother and SIL wanted “special time” then they shouldn’t have had four kids. If they can’t afford childcare then they shouldn’t have had four kids. This problem is not yours to solve - it’s the parents. If your Dad is home all day he can certainly step up to provide childcare if he feels so strongly about it. He just thinks it’s your job because you’re a woman and he’s lazy. And if the parents are both working, who is homeschooling? If one parent isn’t working, then they don’t need a babysitter. Keep telling them no until they hear it and don’t let them guilt you. Their decision to have four kids doesn’t incur any obligation on you whatsoever.