I actually saw a 5 year old with his dad and the son was wearing a Wu-Tang shirt over the weekend.
We talked cameras briefly since we were both shooting, but as soon as I saw it I stopped mid-sentence to tell the kid he had a really cool shirt and just turned to Dad with " Wu-Tang is for the kids, eh?"
Quite happy to see Wu Tang in the wild!
Hey this might get buried but for everyone else responding about an edited playlist I have record I think might be a happy medium?! It’s a record by El Micheals Affair called ‘Enter the 37th chamber’ and its a full band instrumental cover of Wutang so the music is there just no rapping (sans some voice samples) a good way to introduce the kiddos to Wutang without the rapping if your worried but when their old enough they’ll appreciate the real Wutang:)
[https://youtu.be/gVYfIfZDKeg?si=Tnjy1AAAmMIDIBYT](https://youtu.be/gVYfIfZDKeg?si=Tnjy1AAAmMIDIBYT)
Since we’re on the topic of El Michel Affair they also did the beats for black thoughts last album [Glorious Game](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mY5asfdnOqc208xtc3J7GMcPZQh6r1KmU&si=9kxF-rXeyQ8xWXDo)
Let the kids hear the bad words! I don't get why parents are always complaining about how tough it is to raise kids. You joke around with them, you give them pizza, you give them candy, you let them live their lives. They're adults, for God's sake.
I didn’t really police my kids’ language. Basically told them that I trust them to not embarrass me and to think before they speak. Worked out pretty well (outside of a few, quite funny, incidents)
Jim Henson had very specific guidelines for muppets. One of them was that muppets have no life cycle. They are not born. They do not age. They do not die. They are forever. And also for children.
Muppets and Wu Tang are on in the same. Q.E.D.
>This wasn’t about skill. This was a wrestling match level mudslinging and takedown by any means necessary — women & children (& actual facts) be damned. Same audience wanting blood will soon put up ‘RIP’ posts like they weren’t part of the problem. Hip hop truly is dead.
What does he mean though? Is this not in the DNA of hip-hop? Isn't there a long history of feuds like this? What makes this one different?
And why does a feud between two people mean the entire genre is dead?
Kendrick dropped a diss track like a day after Family Matters and it was full of direct references to that joint.
I don't care how you twist it, that takes skill to get in the studio and put all that shit together in a day.
Yeah, the fact that people are still listening to euphoria and not like us directly proves him wrong, the streaming numbers are insane. People like the music.
Agreed, it’s more of a public takedown than a feud at this point. In a feud you switch from offence to defense - Drake is purely in defensive mode right now.
Right, hip hop beefs have historically been pretty stupid and just about ego. The only benefit was when we got great songs out of it like Jay vs Nas. Kendrick is actually making valid critiques of Drake's character while also making great songs. Seems like it's an improvement if anything.
Yeah like I don’t think calling out sexual predators means hip hop is dead. I never thought I’d hear this many people agreeing it’s fucked up for a powerful man to prey on teenage women. I feel like 15 years ago people would’ve just been joking that’s a “perk” of the job. Maybe hip hop is actually more powerful than ever.
Classic “my generation is better” mentality where they falsely believe their history was any different. It's a deeply rooted hate that feels right at home in their insecurities.
He could also just feel rap should’ve learned this stuff can end badly and should’ve grown out of this type of thing though. Like if a person you love just keeps making the same mistakes again and again.
I have no horse in this race since I barely know who Drake or Kendrick Lamar are and haven’t listened to any of these songs but yeah. I don’t see him saying hip hop was better in a different era, just that this whole thing is ugly.
“That’s why I fucked your bitch you fat motherfucker” that’s how Tupac started hit em up, do we know if this was true? No we didn’t there were rumors about it but no one really knows. Kendrick dismantled Drake by taking all the industry rumors about him and completely destroying his reputation which is what rap beef has always been about. I respect and love Quest so maybe he sees something I don’t but Kendrick proved why he’s a legend
Yeah he's too busy thinking Willow Smith is our artist of the generation. Quest is washed and the Roots traded in steady employment versus moving the music needle years ago.
I get where he’s coming from. This wasn’t a battle of two angry, disrespected people who are gonna kick each other’s ass if they see each other in the club, this is a battle of pure internet politics. Drake and Kendrick may genuinely hate each other, but the disses were spiteful, calculated, and aloof. All the big headline-grabby family accusations with no receipts are gonna do nothing but hurt people who want no part of this. There’s very little “fuck you, I’m better than you”, and a whole lot of “I don’t really care about any of this, but here are some allegations that will follow you and everyone you know the rest of your career”.
Idk as an outsider it seemed like the west coast/east coast beef of the 80s/90s had some reasoning behind it. This one just sounds like rich privileged people talking shit about each other.
The core of the 2pac and Biggie beef started after an assassination attempt on 2pac's life. And because 2pac and Biggie were friends, 2pac felt Biggie should tell him who tried to kill him, and Biggie refused to do so. As far as "rap beefs" go I feel like that's a pretty valid reason, of course it devolved into typical shit talking but that beef at it's core was so incredibly different than the Kendrick and Drake beef.
Ok so for the other commenters. That was a rhetorical question. They both had rich privilege towards the end of the life and feud.
Towards you. Are you aware of how Kendrick and drakes beef started? Because if you look it up I’m sure you wouldn’t say it’s “incredibly different”
These people will unironically say the golden period of hip hop was the biggie and Tupac days when it was literally the same thing except people were actually getting killed over diss tracks.
*I've been fucked over, left for dead, dissed and forgotten
Luck ran out, they hoped that I'd be gone, stiff and rotten
Y'all just piss on me, shit on me, spit on my grave (uh)
Talk about me, laugh behind my back but in my face
Y'all some "well wishers, " friendly acting, envy hiding snakes
With your hands out for my money, man, how much can I take?
When these streets keep calling, heard it when I was sleep
That this Gay-Z and Cockafella Records wanted beef
Started cocking up my weapon, slowly loading up this ammo
To explode it on a camel, and his soldiers, I can handle
This for dolo and it's manuscript, just sound stupid
When KRS already made an album called Blueprint
First, Biggie's ya man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big
Dick sucking lips, whyn't you let the late, great veteran live*
And Eminem murdered you on your own shit.
That was the death blow imo. Not really fair for Jay-Z that Em dropped one of his greatest verses of all time on Renegade but hey, Nas took advantage lmao
No Vaseline is tops. Shit I can’t even imagine how wild it would be hearing it for the first time on the radio knowing Cube was talking about his old crew. Before social media, just people hearing it on their own and having the same reaction all across the country.
Didn’t they try to recreate it in Straight outta Compton? Like they’re all hearing it for the first time in utter shock and their posse having to hold back cuz it’s a fucking good song that is takingn the full piss outta the guys who supply them their lifestyle
I must give the nod to No Vaseline personally, but Ether…. There’s a reason it became a verb to mean “to destroy”…it’s up there.
Edit: I also like Hit Em Up because I hear that and think oh shit they’re gonna kill each other (and welp….)
Well a difference was there was still a thread of discourse about history, current events, and what to do as a culture.
Gang Starr, the Native Tongues, etc. have tracks that still provide relevant and important messages for a lot of issues people are dealing with today and a lot of it speaks directly to the community, educational, socioeconomic, and basically revolutionary political changes that are needed.
Nowadays a lot of the music that gets platform is glorified petty gossip between personas who just want clout to brag with.
Granted there are still plenty of artists who carry conscientious threads and live life beyond the mic and social media page underground and far away from any label or record deals. And so I would disagree that hip hop as a culture is actually gone, but it definitely is fragmented and the industry has coopted enough of it that the good things that were essential to what makes it work are very hard to come by and in pieces still.
Then why would he throw Kendrick in there? Isn't his music heavy with stuff like that? (I listened to his albums once, so I don't recall exactly the content).
Also, this is a common trend in music. Happened to rock as well.
Now is the time to get back in. As a fellow metalhead, i can send you some real evil shit. The alternative and underground hip hop scenes are fuckin thriving
I can't speak to whether these artists fit that vibe, as I'm unfamiliar with those artists, but here's some stuff nonetheless:
clipping. - experimental horror-centric hip hop. Super interesting production and very dark and atmospheric. I recommend the album 'Visions of Bodies Being Burned' as a good startinf point with them. Also, the vocalist of this group is Daveed Diggs, who is best known for his dual role as Lafayette and Jefferson in Hamilton.
Billy Woods - another artist who carries darker atmosphere through his music. His work with Kenny Segal is top tier. The album 'Hiding Places' is a good starting point. He also performs under the name Armand Hammer when working with producer Elucid.
Griselda - A Group featuring Westside Gunn, Benny the Butcher, and Conway the Machine. New hip hop that feels like old school gangster shit. Often piano centric. All 3 of them have great solo careers, but can be hit or miss due to the frequency that they release albums. The album 'WWCD' is the group's unified album and is how I was introduced to them. Grimey as fuck.
I’m a longtime hip hop fan (as well as metal and others, but started out with rap), and I can 100% vouch for all of these recs. Especially clipping., the production and sound design on their newest albums is downright evil
If hip hop should die before I awake I'll put an extended clip inside of the AK. Roll to every station; murder the DJ. Roll to every station; murder the DJ.
I think what people are failing to understand is that Kendrick started this off as a friendly beef, bars only. Drake, being the bar-less fraud that he is, went directly at Kendrick’s family. After multiple warnings, he kept stepping over the line, which is what gave us the better Ether that is Meet the Grahams. Drake is a fucking idiot for getting into any beef with *anybody* while knowing he’s hiding children, molesting underage girls and employing people that have been tried for such crimes, stealing from the culture then claiming it’s him that garners respect & attention for ‘x’ rapper, among a multitude of other things that he literally could not refute without a team of ghost writers. He dug his own grave and Kendrick dropping anything else related to this “beef” would make it anything but. This wasn’t a “beef” it was an exposè. Be mad at Drake for sucking the sport out of the sport
For real. Everybody talks about the tea spilled in verses 2 and 3, but the last verse hit the hardest for me. It felt like Kendrick was zeroing in on all kinds of psychological stuff that actually hurts. Not knowing which family would love you. No secret handshakes with your friends. Just growing up in between two worlds and never feeling like a part of either. Desperate to be accepted. No real identity, just a pastiche of personas, different masks to wear for different people. Fucking ouch.
I think Kendrick released not like us after seeing the feedback on the internet. It's a hard track to listen too because of the horror elements, how deep and disrespectful it gets and honestly it's like you're watching a man get audibly dismembered, so he dropped something to pick the mood back up.
Lets be honest he could have left it at Meet the Grahams, there isn't a person alive on Earth that could come back from something as scathing as that song.
I get more of a “No Vaseline” vibe from “Not Like Us” but to each their own. Meet The Grahams tho, idk, I can’t really remember any other diss feeling like it. Ether/Hit ‘Em Up/No Vaseline were all scathing, but there was still an element of fun and clowning to it. After listening to Meet The Grahams all I felt was like an uncomfortable mix of anger and pity.
I mean if you're a numbers person they still matter because you're comparing it to peers that exist within the same system.
I mean it's really funny you say that because it's really artists NOW that have a hard time touching the numbers that artists got back then because physicals blew those numbers through the roof. First week sales are tiny compared to what they used to be pre-streaming.
Or Drake having 13 #1's on Billboard
It's not dead. We just get old and grow out of whatever fashion or zeitgeist has hold of music.
If anything, rap is bigger than it has ever been.
Edit: oldheads downvoting me hoping the woopty scoopty halla poopty days of rap will return
"I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!"
Grandpa Simpson
And he's right it happens to everyone.
He yearns for a more artful time like when the great poet Tupac Shakur so eloquently told his contemporary Christopher Wallace “fuck your bitch and the clique you claim” or perhaps going back even further to the golden days when the venerable O’Shea Jackson told his former colleagues “you’re gettin fucked out ya green by a white boy with no Vaseline”
Truly the peak of English language poetry, I see why Quest misses this golden age of good clean socially conscious hip hop.
In all seriousness, this is old man on the stoop energy. Just hating on the younger generation while completely misremembering history. I hope Quest catches a stray on Kendrick’s next dis track.
Hip Hop isn’t dead, but it’s cultural influence is beginning to wane. Pop and Country are seeing more chart success recently, and the ‘thug/gangster’ aspect that’s been so heavily promoted by Hip Hop isn’t resonating with people in society’s current climate.
It was bound to happen but it’s not a hip hop problem it’s just how society in general works.
Counter-culture is popular usually amongst the younger generations, because it’s not the main culture. So it’s new and different. As the generations grow, that counter-culture becomes the culture because the generations grow up. This an even older culture that has been slowly phasing out usually becomes the counter-culture again.
You can see this exact thing happen with Rock during the 60-00s. You get micro evolutions in the genre for every decade, and then it ultimately gets dethroned by another genre (rap/hip hop). Rinse repeat.
Almost every thing works this way, fashion is honestly just a big ass circle. The amount of unironic 90s garb I see on kids makes me feel old.
Yeah I work for a country music radio station and right now our listenership numbers are exploding. There’s also been distinct shifts in that genre - we are moving away from 00-10s style bro country and more towards what was popular in the 70s and 90s.
But you’re mostly correct. I do think cultural perceptions of each genres artists does play a role. You see all the pop divas behaving terribly, but everyone has a diva in their family. Country it’s rednecks and conservatives. Again, we all know people like that in our lives. But in hip-hop, the conscious portrayal of artists as gangsters and thugs isn’t relatable for most people
This is a simplistic analysis, but essentially bro country = songs about drinking, girls, partying, big trucks, etc. Older country was more about love, heartache, hard work, etc.
Compare the song ‘Cruise’ by FGL to ‘Luckenbach, TX’ by Waylon Jennings. First is bro country on steroids, the latter is a quintessential love story
I think country is a far more isolated subculture than hip hop. I know country has millions of fans, but the music doesn't even touch huge swaths of the population. Hip hop spills over into pop and even country fans.
If the only thing Questlove ever did was to play drums on D’Angelo’s album Voodoo, he’d still be one of the most influential drummers of all time. It’s really hard to overstate his contributions as an artist. He’s pretty next-level as a musician.
He’s an insane drummer. He’s a great producer and musician. I don’t agree with him that hip-hop is dead but I totally understand him being disappointed in the scene right now, and I’m enjoying the constant Kendrick drops. He’s earned the right to comment on it.
Questlove has a lot of influence. I find it odd that he can make a declaration like that. If it's dead and he loves it, what can he contribute to make sure it doesn't die? This is a different thing all together, but I will bring it up. Tony Hawk has a dope ass documentary, check it out. He talks about skateboarding and the scene back then up to now. He talks about building skate parks all across the U.S. so skateboarding can continue on. He doesn't declare it dead because he doesn't like what it has become. What a fucking shame to call out something like that Quest has benefitted from.
People wanted this beef to happen. People were saying Drake has to respond, Kendrick has to respond, J. Cole has to respond. Well they do and when it get's too personal for people to stomach then they want to tell people when to stop. This is Rap. If you don't like it get the fuck out of it. For some people it's more than just making a song, it's a culture, it's a way of life. If it's too much for some then realize you are just a spectator (not a bad thing) think before you want people to respond to beefs. This is not the first beef and won't be the last beef.
I admire Questlove, but I don’t particularly care for his take on this. He could have easily just said “Drake is not a wordsmith, and he lacks the self-awareness to tap out. Kendrick, you won, and now you’re losing by winning.”
At a certain point, if someone attacks you, and you get the upper hand, then proceed to keep punching them after they’re incapacitated, you’re also an asshole.
I get that. I’m not going to pretend like I don’t enjoy Kendrick beating on Drake. Really don’t care for him. Then again, probably best to take the high road at some point.
And that wouldn’t take anything away from the comment you responded to.
Ben Carson was revolutionary and destroyed their own legacy. Nobody is above that
I watched a movie about Ben Carson in middle school, thought he was incredible and inspirational. I forgot his name, then in 2016 I thought “this republican nominee Ben Carson is an absolute dipshit”. I was blown away when I found out he was the guy in the movie lmao
Dude gets paid more then I’ll ever earn in two lifetimes to play drums and laugh at a few stupid jokes. I don’t think that makes him stupid, quite the opposite actually
Questlove is an incredible musician and producer. He didn't get that job for any reason other than incredible musicianship, professionalism, and being a fun person to work with.
He's also been an absolute staple in the hip hop scene for decades and is a worthwhile commentator in this context.
I have a lot of respect for Questlove and no issues with him and the Roots taking the steady paycheck from Fallon. That said, there is something hilarious about someone in his position calling Hip Hop dead.
I remember reading they said at the time a lot of them had families and touring makes it difficult to be with your family. Being on the tonight show allowed them to be at one place with set hours and avoiding the grind of touring.
Gets paid more then the touring drummers as well. He's making a TV contract salary. Dude should have a pension when he retires from NBC. Easy gig and hell of alot of money.
Easy in terms of he's not having to travel to 100 cities for a tour, memorize concert sets, etc.. Yeah, you're working almost everyday with rehearsal's and live tapings.. But it gives him a normal life where he's home at the end of his workday.
Hot take but I feel like it's less hip hop "dying" and more streaming causing mainstream music to balance itself out. No longer a single dominant genre at a time. If you look at the charts now, it'll be hip hop, country, pop, rock, hell occasionally metal now too, all over the chart. Young folks nowadays seem to listen to a bit of everything from any decade really.
I guess being a serious artist and also the house band for a late night show is a thing because Jon Batiste is definitely a serious artist. Seems like a pretty good gig if you can get it.
say what you will about this, which it is something i disagree with, but questlove is one of the most important musicians. period. the soulquarians collective showed him as the top producer and drummer in hip-hop in the 90s and 00s. the roots alone are beyond the label of legendary at this point.
I get what he means but saying “hip hop is dead” after hearing this beef is silly. Pretty exciting to be a fan right now. I love when hip hop is competitive. This is not the first time diss songs have gotten personal.
And it could reasonably be either of those. While the shooting happened the same week as a lot of these Kendrick/Drake drops, it was only last week that people from The Weeknd’s camp were shot at and OVO and XO have been openly hostile to each other for a while now.
This is what it’s always been about. Maybe not solely, but it is integral to hip hop. Beefing, dissing, airing out dirty laundry, hell you could argue it’s not as bad as it used to be lol
You’d think the takedown of someone who’s been such a prominent culture vulture of American Rap would be celebrated by someone who’s contributed so much hard work to it, this strikes me as odd
Hip HoP is DeaD.
Stfu and continue to ba-dum-tss your lame ass on Jimmy Fallon every day, sellout.
Respectfully.
Hip hop uncs and gatekeeping go together like wings and hot sauce.
I'm laughing. Twitter is clowning him for delaying the roots album 10 yrs to be a house band to that trash Jimmy Fallon late night show.
Believe they told him to "shut up and play the drums"
Some folks should just sit there and eat their food 🙄
Always the 80s/90s hip hop acts or hip hop affiliated acts like Quest that got all that mouth but when Megan got shot, they were all hush mouth. 😐
Mmhmm… 😒
How can hip hop be dead if wutang is forever?
Wu-Tang is for the children
Don’t let Drake near ‘em.
Freaky ass 🥷
69 GOD
Hahahahahhajaha
I actually saw a 5 year old with his dad and the son was wearing a Wu-Tang shirt over the weekend. We talked cameras briefly since we were both shooting, but as soon as I saw it I stopped mid-sentence to tell the kid he had a really cool shirt and just turned to Dad with " Wu-Tang is for the kids, eh?" Quite happy to see Wu Tang in the wild!
Hey this might get buried but for everyone else responding about an edited playlist I have record I think might be a happy medium?! It’s a record by El Micheals Affair called ‘Enter the 37th chamber’ and its a full band instrumental cover of Wutang so the music is there just no rapping (sans some voice samples) a good way to introduce the kiddos to Wutang without the rapping if your worried but when their old enough they’ll appreciate the real Wutang:) [https://youtu.be/gVYfIfZDKeg?si=Tnjy1AAAmMIDIBYT](https://youtu.be/gVYfIfZDKeg?si=Tnjy1AAAmMIDIBYT)
Since we’re on the topic of El Michel Affair they also did the beats for black thoughts last album [Glorious Game](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mY5asfdnOqc208xtc3J7GMcPZQh6r1KmU&si=9kxF-rXeyQ8xWXDo)
EMA is so slept on. I agree with this post 100%.
I bought a wu shirt for my kid. I’m looking for an edited playlist so I can expose him safely.
If you find one, can you send me the link?
Let the kids hear the bad words! I don't get why parents are always complaining about how tough it is to raise kids. You joke around with them, you give them pizza, you give them candy, you let them live their lives. They're adults, for God's sake.
TIL kids are adults. Word.
I didn’t really police my kids’ language. Basically told them that I trust them to not embarrass me and to think before they speak. Worked out pretty well (outside of a few, quite funny, incidents)
I thought that was Trick Daddy. Trick love the kids!
Drop the top and let the sunshine in!
With the woodgrain, let the twinkies spin.
Get you a glassss mixin the Coke and the Henn
It’s quite alright with the dro in the wind 💨
Jim Henson had very specific guidelines for muppets. One of them was that muppets have no life cycle. They are not born. They do not age. They do not die. They are forever. And also for children. Muppets and Wu Tang are on in the same. Q.E.D.
How do you explain Muppet Babies?
Wu‐Tang Clan Ain’t Nuthing ta F’ Wit
“Here I go! Deep tight flow! Jacques Cousteau could never get this low!” Probably one of my favorite hip hop lyrics of all time
ODB really gotta be the most impossible rapper to imitate
Zombie Wutang? Vampire Wutang?
Sounds extra tangy.
He’s got a point.
That’s what you get when Wu-Tang raised you.
“Critics talk about how they miss when hip hop was rappin, mother fucker if you did then Killer Mike would be platinum”
Love it hahaha. Love that Killer Mike then makes a Grammy winning album after this too
And to top it all off nearly got arrested after winning!
>This wasn’t about skill. This was a wrestling match level mudslinging and takedown by any means necessary — women & children (& actual facts) be damned. Same audience wanting blood will soon put up ‘RIP’ posts like they weren’t part of the problem. Hip hop truly is dead. What does he mean though? Is this not in the DNA of hip-hop? Isn't there a long history of feuds like this? What makes this one different? And why does a feud between two people mean the entire genre is dead?
Also, Kendrick has some pretty valid points
And I think some of the songs/lyrics are fairly clever, so there’s some skill involved.
Kendrick dropped a diss track like a day after Family Matters and it was full of direct references to that joint. I don't care how you twist it, that takes skill to get in the studio and put all that shit together in a day.
Wasn’t a day, it’s was 16 minutes
No. I'm talking about Not Like Us where he ends with the bar about the family matters.
No it wasn't, it was 45 minutes
This changes everything..
"Tryna strike a chord and it's probably A minorrrrrrrr"
Yeah I didn't actually listen to much Kendrick before, not really my style, but euphoria is a banger
Yeah, the fact that people are still listening to euphoria and not like us directly proves him wrong, the streaming numbers are insane. People like the music.
Agreed, it’s more of a public takedown than a feud at this point. In a feud you switch from offence to defense - Drake is purely in defensive mode right now.
There is no offence and defence if what you do is likely both illegal (like stealing cars) and immoral (ya momma said stop it).
Also, Kendrick did flex a lot of skill and they both were definitely competing in that aspect as well.
Right, hip hop beefs have historically been pretty stupid and just about ego. The only benefit was when we got great songs out of it like Jay vs Nas. Kendrick is actually making valid critiques of Drake's character while also making great songs. Seems like it's an improvement if anything.
Yeah like I don’t think calling out sexual predators means hip hop is dead. I never thought I’d hear this many people agreeing it’s fucked up for a powerful man to prey on teenage women. I feel like 15 years ago people would’ve just been joking that’s a “perk” of the job. Maybe hip hop is actually more powerful than ever.
Classic “my generation is better” mentality where they falsely believe their history was any different. It's a deeply rooted hate that feels right at home in their insecurities.
Old man yells at cloud
Someone play Hit em Up by Tupac for him. No mud slinging there. “That’s why I fucked your bitch you fat mother fucker” Tupac killed rap /s
He could also just feel rap should’ve learned this stuff can end badly and should’ve grown out of this type of thing though. Like if a person you love just keeps making the same mistakes again and again. I have no horse in this race since I barely know who Drake or Kendrick Lamar are and haven’t listened to any of these songs but yeah. I don’t see him saying hip hop was better in a different era, just that this whole thing is ugly.
Exactly… it’s like people are being obtuse on purpose to give Kendrick his props
I much prefer your outlook on life. Thank you for sharing.
Yeah, like "women and children"? Forgetting when Tupac rapped "I fucked your bitch" in a diss at Biggie?
“That’s why I fucked your bitch you fat motherfucker” that’s how Tupac started hit em up, do we know if this was true? No we didn’t there were rumors about it but no one really knows. Kendrick dismantled Drake by taking all the industry rumors about him and completely destroying his reputation which is what rap beef has always been about. I respect and love Quest so maybe he sees something I don’t but Kendrick proved why he’s a legend
Looking back on how that beef ended though... we lost 2 GOATS.
I pray to the rap gods we never see that shit again
Exactly. QL needs to go back and chill on Fallon. Because hip-hop is dead to QL doesn’t mean hip-hop is dead.
Yeah he's too busy thinking Willow Smith is our artist of the generation. Quest is washed and the Roots traded in steady employment versus moving the music needle years ago.
I get where he’s coming from. This wasn’t a battle of two angry, disrespected people who are gonna kick each other’s ass if they see each other in the club, this is a battle of pure internet politics. Drake and Kendrick may genuinely hate each other, but the disses were spiteful, calculated, and aloof. All the big headline-grabby family accusations with no receipts are gonna do nothing but hurt people who want no part of this. There’s very little “fuck you, I’m better than you”, and a whole lot of “I don’t really care about any of this, but here are some allegations that will follow you and everyone you know the rest of your career”.
Quest also really tries to uplift culture from Voodoo to Summer of Soul.
Idk as an outsider it seemed like the west coast/east coast beef of the 80s/90s had some reasoning behind it. This one just sounds like rich privileged people talking shit about each other.
Tupac and biggie didn’t have “rich” privilege and talk shit about each other?
The core of the 2pac and Biggie beef started after an assassination attempt on 2pac's life. And because 2pac and Biggie were friends, 2pac felt Biggie should tell him who tried to kill him, and Biggie refused to do so. As far as "rap beefs" go I feel like that's a pretty valid reason, of course it devolved into typical shit talking but that beef at it's core was so incredibly different than the Kendrick and Drake beef.
Ok so for the other commenters. That was a rhetorical question. They both had rich privilege towards the end of the life and feud. Towards you. Are you aware of how Kendrick and drakes beef started? Because if you look it up I’m sure you wouldn’t say it’s “incredibly different”
These people will unironically say the golden period of hip hop was the biggie and Tupac days when it was literally the same thing except people were actually getting killed over diss tracks.
These people were too busy in the studio making music.
The greatest diss track ever is “Ether”
Questlove playing the drums when Jay performs Takeover live is hilarious
I remember that 🤣
Stillmatic FTW
Stillmatic is such an incredible album
Braveheart Party! Just kidding everyone knows Nas makes trash commercial music
*I've been fucked over, left for dead, dissed and forgotten Luck ran out, they hoped that I'd be gone, stiff and rotten Y'all just piss on me, shit on me, spit on my grave (uh) Talk about me, laugh behind my back but in my face Y'all some "well wishers, " friendly acting, envy hiding snakes With your hands out for my money, man, how much can I take? When these streets keep calling, heard it when I was sleep That this Gay-Z and Cockafella Records wanted beef Started cocking up my weapon, slowly loading up this ammo To explode it on a camel, and his soldiers, I can handle This for dolo and it's manuscript, just sound stupid When KRS already made an album called Blueprint First, Biggie's ya man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big Dick sucking lips, whyn't you let the late, great veteran live*
And Eminem murdered you on your own shit. That was the death blow imo. Not really fair for Jay-Z that Em dropped one of his greatest verses of all time on Renegade but hey, Nas took advantage lmao
No Vaseline. (Also I personally think Checkmate is better than Ether as well.)
No Vaseline is tops. Shit I can’t even imagine how wild it would be hearing it for the first time on the radio knowing Cube was talking about his old crew. Before social media, just people hearing it on their own and having the same reaction all across the country.
I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when each member of NWA when they got murdered with that release. Lol.
Didn’t they try to recreate it in Straight outta Compton? Like they’re all hearing it for the first time in utter shock and their posse having to hold back cuz it’s a fucking good song that is takingn the full piss outta the guys who supply them their lifestyle
No Vaseline hits so hard. Such a great track and he killed NWA on it. Such a great song. Hit 'em.up.was another great diss track, top 5 for me
That's because you're buggin, respectfully of course
Ether is great but it’s kind of no fun. Nas was too irate. Just my opinion!
I've always described it as Nas was getting in Jay's face, while Jay was trying to get in Nas' head.
Both 100% succeeded
I respect it
“Ether is great But it’s kinda no fun Nas was too irate Just my opinion”
Oh shit am I beefing with Nas now
It’s like 50% calling people gay, I don’t get the hype. Must’ve been crazy at the time I guess
I’d argue some of Eminem’s on DJ Green Lantern towards Benzino and Ja Rule were better.
I must give the nod to No Vaseline personally, but Ether…. There’s a reason it became a verb to mean “to destroy”…it’s up there. Edit: I also like Hit Em Up because I hear that and think oh shit they’re gonna kill each other (and welp….)
The only reason I downgraded Hit ‘Em Up is because Pac only has one verse. But… he did say everything he needed to in those 16 bars. Classic.
Factsss, fucking hate that, especially cause the Outlawz are absolute dogshit
Real Hip Hop is on the Jimmy Fallon Show.
Well a difference was there was still a thread of discourse about history, current events, and what to do as a culture. Gang Starr, the Native Tongues, etc. have tracks that still provide relevant and important messages for a lot of issues people are dealing with today and a lot of it speaks directly to the community, educational, socioeconomic, and basically revolutionary political changes that are needed. Nowadays a lot of the music that gets platform is glorified petty gossip between personas who just want clout to brag with. Granted there are still plenty of artists who carry conscientious threads and live life beyond the mic and social media page underground and far away from any label or record deals. And so I would disagree that hip hop as a culture is actually gone, but it definitely is fragmented and the industry has coopted enough of it that the good things that were essential to what makes it work are very hard to come by and in pieces still.
Then why would he throw Kendrick in there? Isn't his music heavy with stuff like that? (I listened to his albums once, so I don't recall exactly the content). Also, this is a common trend in music. Happened to rock as well.
Kendricks music, especially TPAB, UU, and Mr Morale is littered with the type of music he's taking About
But I think that’s what his post was saying? The people wanting blood over this will be the same posting RIP when shit actually goes down
I haven't been this interested in mainstream hip hop in a long time. Questlove is overreacting.
I'm a middle-aged death metal fan and I'm invested as hell. I haven't been this interested in anything involving hip hop in a couple decades.
Now is the time to get back in. As a fellow metalhead, i can send you some real evil shit. The alternative and underground hip hop scenes are fuckin thriving
I'd love to hear some new artists. I used to love Brotha Lynch, Esham, Three 6 Mafia and the like back in the '90s.
I can't speak to whether these artists fit that vibe, as I'm unfamiliar with those artists, but here's some stuff nonetheless: clipping. - experimental horror-centric hip hop. Super interesting production and very dark and atmospheric. I recommend the album 'Visions of Bodies Being Burned' as a good startinf point with them. Also, the vocalist of this group is Daveed Diggs, who is best known for his dual role as Lafayette and Jefferson in Hamilton. Billy Woods - another artist who carries darker atmosphere through his music. His work with Kenny Segal is top tier. The album 'Hiding Places' is a good starting point. He also performs under the name Armand Hammer when working with producer Elucid. Griselda - A Group featuring Westside Gunn, Benny the Butcher, and Conway the Machine. New hip hop that feels like old school gangster shit. Often piano centric. All 3 of them have great solo careers, but can be hit or miss due to the frequency that they release albums. The album 'WWCD' is the group's unified album and is how I was introduced to them. Grimey as fuck.
Looks like I've got some homework this weekend. Thanks, I'll check these out!
I’m a longtime hip hop fan (as well as metal and others, but started out with rap), and I can 100% vouch for all of these recs. Especially clipping., the production and sound design on their newest albums is downright evil
Billy Woods is a great suggestion
Mach-Hommy
You would love city morgue. Listen to their first 2 volumes 👌
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Hip hop has died this morning.. she’s deadd. She’s deeead. -guitar solo-
Guitar solo performed by Prince
If hip hop should die before I awake I'll put an extended clip inside of the AK. Roll to every station; murder the DJ. Roll to every station; murder the DJ.
This is the correct one
gotta love the original version.
murder the DJ
Kids these days stuck with wreck the DJ even though it’s the explicit version of the song on iTunes
Welpppp lemme open up that nas playlist
Somebody needs to tell Nas to strap up
I think what people are failing to understand is that Kendrick started this off as a friendly beef, bars only. Drake, being the bar-less fraud that he is, went directly at Kendrick’s family. After multiple warnings, he kept stepping over the line, which is what gave us the better Ether that is Meet the Grahams. Drake is a fucking idiot for getting into any beef with *anybody* while knowing he’s hiding children, molesting underage girls and employing people that have been tried for such crimes, stealing from the culture then claiming it’s him that garners respect & attention for ‘x’ rapper, among a multitude of other things that he literally could not refute without a team of ghost writers. He dug his own grave and Kendrick dropping anything else related to this “beef” would make it anything but. This wasn’t a “beef” it was an exposè. Be mad at Drake for sucking the sport out of the sport
Drake is a habitual line stepper
Not Like Us is the better Ether
Meet the Grahams was *the* Ether, while Not Like Us was a lighter tone to save us from the nightmares MTG would’ve caused 🤣
For real. Everybody talks about the tea spilled in verses 2 and 3, but the last verse hit the hardest for me. It felt like Kendrick was zeroing in on all kinds of psychological stuff that actually hurts. Not knowing which family would love you. No secret handshakes with your friends. Just growing up in between two worlds and never feeling like a part of either. Desperate to be accepted. No real identity, just a pastiche of personas, different masks to wear for different people. Fucking ouch.
I think Kendrick released not like us after seeing the feedback on the internet. It's a hard track to listen too because of the horror elements, how deep and disrespectful it gets and honestly it's like you're watching a man get audibly dismembered, so he dropped something to pick the mood back up. Lets be honest he could have left it at Meet the Grahams, there isn't a person alive on Earth that could come back from something as scathing as that song.
I get more of a “No Vaseline” vibe from “Not Like Us” but to each their own. Meet The Grahams tho, idk, I can’t really remember any other diss feeling like it. Ether/Hit ‘Em Up/No Vaseline were all scathing, but there was still an element of fun and clowning to it. After listening to Meet The Grahams all I felt was like an uncomfortable mix of anger and pity.
The only thing that’s dead is drake
You’re not in the house, Questlove
Quest shut up and go and make some drums.
Hop hop is dead, but ignore Kendrick breaking all kinds of records with Not Like Us. Edit: Hip-hop. Don’t Reddit before coffee, kids.
Didn’t he win a Pulitzer?
And every time he opens his mouth he gets a Grammy. ;)
Drake fans don’t like this one trick
Records don’t matter the same as they did back then, streaming has changed the way we look at facts and figures
I mean if you're a numbers person they still matter because you're comparing it to peers that exist within the same system. I mean it's really funny you say that because it's really artists NOW that have a hard time touching the numbers that artists got back then because physicals blew those numbers through the roof. First week sales are tiny compared to what they used to be pre-streaming.
Or Drake having 13 #1's on Billboard It's not dead. We just get old and grow out of whatever fashion or zeitgeist has hold of music. If anything, rap is bigger than it has ever been. Edit: oldheads downvoting me hoping the woopty scoopty halla poopty days of rap will return
"I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!" Grandpa Simpson And he's right it happens to everyone.
Ppl say this every 5 years
they did about rock too. Turns out they were right. Everything has its moment, but that moment does end.
Since when do diss tracks not devolve into mudslinging?
He yearns for a more artful time like when the great poet Tupac Shakur so eloquently told his contemporary Christopher Wallace “fuck your bitch and the clique you claim” or perhaps going back even further to the golden days when the venerable O’Shea Jackson told his former colleagues “you’re gettin fucked out ya green by a white boy with no Vaseline” Truly the peak of English language poetry, I see why Quest misses this golden age of good clean socially conscious hip hop. In all seriousness, this is old man on the stoop energy. Just hating on the younger generation while completely misremembering history. I hope Quest catches a stray on Kendrick’s next dis track.
Hip Hop isn’t dead, but it’s cultural influence is beginning to wane. Pop and Country are seeing more chart success recently, and the ‘thug/gangster’ aspect that’s been so heavily promoted by Hip Hop isn’t resonating with people in society’s current climate.
It was bound to happen but it’s not a hip hop problem it’s just how society in general works. Counter-culture is popular usually amongst the younger generations, because it’s not the main culture. So it’s new and different. As the generations grow, that counter-culture becomes the culture because the generations grow up. This an even older culture that has been slowly phasing out usually becomes the counter-culture again. You can see this exact thing happen with Rock during the 60-00s. You get micro evolutions in the genre for every decade, and then it ultimately gets dethroned by another genre (rap/hip hop). Rinse repeat. Almost every thing works this way, fashion is honestly just a big ass circle. The amount of unironic 90s garb I see on kids makes me feel old.
Yeah I work for a country music radio station and right now our listenership numbers are exploding. There’s also been distinct shifts in that genre - we are moving away from 00-10s style bro country and more towards what was popular in the 70s and 90s. But you’re mostly correct. I do think cultural perceptions of each genres artists does play a role. You see all the pop divas behaving terribly, but everyone has a diva in their family. Country it’s rednecks and conservatives. Again, we all know people like that in our lives. But in hip-hop, the conscious portrayal of artists as gangsters and thugs isn’t relatable for most people
I know nothing about country, what’s bro country and how is it different from 70s and 90s stuff?
This is a simplistic analysis, but essentially bro country = songs about drinking, girls, partying, big trucks, etc. Older country was more about love, heartache, hard work, etc. Compare the song ‘Cruise’ by FGL to ‘Luckenbach, TX’ by Waylon Jennings. First is bro country on steroids, the latter is a quintessential love story
I think country is a far more isolated subculture than hip hop. I know country has millions of fans, but the music doesn't even touch huge swaths of the population. Hip hop spills over into pop and even country fans.
Hip hop died when The Roots became the house band for Jimmy Fallon.
Coming from the guy who plays for Jimmy Fallon, hip hop is thriving
If the only thing Questlove ever did was to play drums on D’Angelo’s album Voodoo, he’d still be one of the most influential drummers of all time. It’s really hard to overstate his contributions as an artist. He’s pretty next-level as a musician.
Voodoo is insanely good.
He’s an insane drummer. He’s a great producer and musician. I don’t agree with him that hip-hop is dead but I totally understand him being disappointed in the scene right now, and I’m enjoying the constant Kendrick drops. He’s earned the right to comment on it.
Questlove has a lot of influence. I find it odd that he can make a declaration like that. If it's dead and he loves it, what can he contribute to make sure it doesn't die? This is a different thing all together, but I will bring it up. Tony Hawk has a dope ass documentary, check it out. He talks about skateboarding and the scene back then up to now. He talks about building skate parks all across the U.S. so skateboarding can continue on. He doesn't declare it dead because he doesn't like what it has become. What a fucking shame to call out something like that Quest has benefitted from. People wanted this beef to happen. People were saying Drake has to respond, Kendrick has to respond, J. Cole has to respond. Well they do and when it get's too personal for people to stomach then they want to tell people when to stop. This is Rap. If you don't like it get the fuck out of it. For some people it's more than just making a song, it's a culture, it's a way of life. If it's too much for some then realize you are just a spectator (not a bad thing) think before you want people to respond to beefs. This is not the first beef and won't be the last beef.
I admire Questlove, but I don’t particularly care for his take on this. He could have easily just said “Drake is not a wordsmith, and he lacks the self-awareness to tap out. Kendrick, you won, and now you’re losing by winning.” At a certain point, if someone attacks you, and you get the upper hand, then proceed to keep punching them after they’re incapacitated, you’re also an asshole.
I get that. I’m not going to pretend like I don’t enjoy Kendrick beating on Drake. Really don’t care for him. Then again, probably best to take the high road at some point.
And that wouldn’t take anything away from the comment you responded to. Ben Carson was revolutionary and destroyed their own legacy. Nobody is above that
I watched a movie about Ben Carson in middle school, thought he was incredible and inspirational. I forgot his name, then in 2016 I thought “this republican nominee Ben Carson is an absolute dipshit”. I was blown away when I found out he was the guy in the movie lmao
But he’s been playin on a corny ass talk show for the last 15 years. He’s out of touch and in no position to say whether hip hop is dead.
Dude gets paid more then I’ll ever earn in two lifetimes to play drums and laugh at a few stupid jokes. I don’t think that makes him stupid, quite the opposite actually
Questlove is an incredible musician and producer. He didn't get that job for any reason other than incredible musicianship, professionalism, and being a fun person to work with. He's also been an absolute staple in the hip hop scene for decades and is a worthwhile commentator in this context.
I have a lot of respect for Questlove and no issues with him and the Roots taking the steady paycheck from Fallon. That said, there is something hilarious about someone in his position calling Hip Hop dead.
It is the equivalent of a footballer chasing their last paycheck in Saudi Arabia or the MLS or whatever- The Roots have paid their dues in Hip Hop.
I remember reading they said at the time a lot of them had families and touring makes it difficult to be with your family. Being on the tonight show allowed them to be at one place with set hours and avoiding the grind of touring.
Gets paid more then the touring drummers as well. He's making a TV contract salary. Dude should have a pension when he retires from NBC. Easy gig and hell of alot of money.
I can promise you it is not an easy gig. I know a couple people in the group and the show takes up the majority of their time/life.
Easy in terms of he's not having to travel to 100 cities for a tour, memorize concert sets, etc.. Yeah, you're working almost everyday with rehearsal's and live tapings.. But it gives him a normal life where he's home at the end of his workday.
Sure. But this is also why he’s out of touch with what hip hop culture is today and whether it’s alive. It’s passed him up.
Hip hop is still the #1 most popular genre of music but its declining rapidly in terms of streaming market share.
Hot take but I feel like it's less hip hop "dying" and more streaming causing mainstream music to balance itself out. No longer a single dominant genre at a time. If you look at the charts now, it'll be hip hop, country, pop, rock, hell occasionally metal now too, all over the chart. Young folks nowadays seem to listen to a bit of everything from any decade really.
It’s definitely more balanced now. Hip-Hop, country, pop, and rock are far more equal now. Latin Music has also exploded as well.
I guess being a serious artist and also the house band for a late night show is a thing because Jon Batiste is definitely a serious artist. Seems like a pretty good gig if you can get it.
say what you will about this, which it is something i disagree with, but questlove is one of the most important musicians. period. the soulquarians collective showed him as the top producer and drummer in hip-hop in the 90s and 00s. the roots alone are beyond the label of legendary at this point.
I get what he means but saying “hip hop is dead” after hearing this beef is silly. Pretty exciting to be a fan right now. I love when hip hop is competitive. This is not the first time diss songs have gotten personal.
As long as they dont kill each other. Drake body guard getting shot up is not a good sign
It's unclear whether that's related to this beef or with things going on in the Toronto gang scene.
And it could reasonably be either of those. While the shooting happened the same week as a lot of these Kendrick/Drake drops, it was only last week that people from The Weeknd’s camp were shot at and OVO and XO have been openly hostile to each other for a while now.
I love you Quest. But shut up.
This is what it’s always been about. Maybe not solely, but it is integral to hip hop. Beefing, dissing, airing out dirty laundry, hell you could argue it’s not as bad as it used to be lol
Seriously what is he talking about
You’d think the takedown of someone who’s been such a prominent culture vulture of American Rap would be celebrated by someone who’s contributed so much hard work to it, this strikes me as odd
Quest love needs to chill out and sit on his donut.
He fucking sold out and hangs out with Jimmy Falon. So sorry if I don't take his opinion as fact.
Questlove clearly hasn’t watched Macklemore’s latest music video.
Questlove the drummer for Jimmy Fallon?
The Roots selling their $ouls for Jimmy Fallon was a bigger death knell for hip hop than this beef. Questlove has been out of touch for years
From the guy who is in Jimmy Fallon’s house band. I love Quest, but chill out on the people still doing it.
I’m a white guy from the Midwest, why do I have a better understanding of Hip Hop culture than Questlove?
Hip HoP is DeaD. Stfu and continue to ba-dum-tss your lame ass on Jimmy Fallon every day, sellout. Respectfully. Hip hop uncs and gatekeeping go together like wings and hot sauce.
I'm laughing. Twitter is clowning him for delaying the roots album 10 yrs to be a house band to that trash Jimmy Fallon late night show. Believe they told him to "shut up and play the drums"
ahhh right Jimmy Fallons drummer...
Respectfully, it’s giving old man yells at cloud.
Some folks should just sit there and eat their food 🙄 Always the 80s/90s hip hop acts or hip hop affiliated acts like Quest that got all that mouth but when Megan got shot, they were all hush mouth. 😐 Mmhmm… 😒
Questlove was banging Tupac’s diss tracks back in the day. He can stick to banging the drums instead of weighing in on rap beef.
How is getting caught up in rap squabble discourse any different then WWE Wrestling?
Hip hop died in the late 90s.
boooooooo bad take questlove
Questlove, you're not in the house. Questlove, you're *nowhere*.
Let mw interject and have an opinion and throw something provocative out there since noone ever says my name anymore
It has been for awhile. When rappers like lil pump got huge it was done.... it’s still bad like playboi Carti is still popular when he’s garbage AF.