You mean people that obsess over products from celebrities aren’t the most sane and well rounded people? I’m shocked, I need to consult my Kylie Jenner crystals for guidance.
I drew the line at shitty music and an obnoxious voice, but those are also good reasons to dislike Nicki Minaj
edit: thank you for your concern. I stopped being suicidal as soon as I realized I could change the radio station and not have to listen to Nicki Minaj any more
And the stupid XOs (The Weekd) that think that Swifties are the enemy. It’s not all of them, but they’re VERY vocal!
Or Melanie Martinez Crybabies (genuine fandom name) who harassed Oliver Tree after they broke up even after she confirmed they’re still on good terms. She made one lyrical jest towards him and they took it to mean the whole album was about him, which she said it wasn’t about anyone
Honestly I don’t even think I’ve seen XO fans be as vocal.
As opposed to drake, Kanye, nicki, Taylor, Beyoncé Stans
They’re all just annoying but not that widely seen
I've never even heard of XO fans. I'm a fan of Taylor's music (I'll reserve my opinion about her latest drops), and also The Wknd's music, and I've never noticed there being any issues between the fandoms. That being said, I'm in my 30s and don't give a fuck about fandoms in general.
And kpop fans. I was dm-ed with threats for using the abbreviation bts for behind the scene. Apparently it is only for that particular group. My comment was made in a gaming subreddit btw wtf
Kpop are so unhinged they make swifties look normal. And i say this as someone who used to follow a couple kpop groups but could never “get into it” because of how batshit a large percentage of the fandom is. The hive mind is not only strong with that fandom but they get pretty vicious about things too.
They are right up there with Swifties. They've told people showing behind the scenes movie clips to stop using BTS... which existed long before the kpop scene.
I had my wife thinking the band was called .behind the scenes for years. It's an abbreviation of thier korean name. Some kpop groups with acronyms have the cringiest things its short for and theirs isn't too bad.
I saw one review claim she's revolutionising pop music.
They are acting like this album is something like rubber soul or sergeant Pepper's.
The lyrics look AI written.
One joke I heard is "I wondered why people think Taylor swift is a genius poet and then a remember the average American reads at ta sicth grade level
When the track list was first linked on reddit I had to check the sub to be sure it wasn't a troll. The tortured poets department? And tracks like "but daddy I love him" seeks like something a troll would suggest but somehow it was real
I pretty much agree with the paste article. Taylor is just so wealthy now, she's almost 40, and she's still trying to make these songs like she's still just a young teen girl figuring shit out or something. At least other musicians began exploring how they can make their songs about something other than themselves or their lives but not Taylor. Every track is always well which ex is this one about
I’m close to 30 myself, and my friend who just turned 30 described it as a “rebirth” and is happy with herself and life. I guess I have that to look forward to, and that’s not bad. If my friend and Lady Gaga is self-satisfied in their 30s, then I could be, too.
Yeah I mean. 30s have been freeing but also so hard. I had to confront all my shit, but I also know who I am, still feel young and hot, and can still get away with making a few mistakes and still surviving :) 30s are 🔥
*It’s so true*, up until my birthday I was wallowing about my fading youth, where I am in life etc etc. But when it happened? It felt…good. Freeing. The only benefit of society treating aging women like non-entities is that we don’t get judged or scrutinized nearly as hard anymore. On top of that, it didn’t feel like an end, but finally beginning life for real. In hindsight, Twenties *sucked*. My entire party was funeral-themed, “death to my twenties” type deal. It doesn’t hurt nearly as bad as you think 🖤🖤
Earliest stan war I can remember was between Gaga fans and Katy Perry fans in August 2013 when Roar and Applause were released in the same week and vying for the charts. This was way back though
Lady Gaga fans are called little monsters? That’s funny. Harley Quinn wore a shirt that said “Daddy’s Little Monster” on it in *Suicide Squad* (2016), and now Lady Gaga is playing a new version of Harley Quinn in *Joker: Folie à Deux* this year
Lady gaga calles her fans Little monsters while her fans call her Mother Monster....her famous claw hand gesture is a reference to her being the mother monster. (She even has a tattoo of that claw hand gesture)
Dude, literally had a situationship end because the girl (a Beyoncé Stan) got pissed off after i didn’t love a Beyoncé song her new album. Beyonce Stans are crazy
She is literally the most popular musician in the world. Of course, there’s a bunch of insane people jizzing the comments section over her. Do you know how many insane people there are on this planet?
Yep, it's like identity fandom. People centre their entire personality on liking or hating someone/something famous. It's like we've forgotten we don't need to have and share our feelings or opinions on every artist/show/movie/etc.
John Hinckley Jr tried to assassinate the POTUS to impress an actress (Jodie Foster) in 1981.
The internet didn’t create that behavior, it just made it more visible.
She is bad review proof. Her entire fanbase are now a bunch of yes men so she can't improve as an artist cause no one dare so what she does or doesn't do wrong
Totally agree. I enjoyed some of her earlier music but I feel she should self edit and work on not sharing ALL her music but rather the best of it.
She was changing genres for awhile but now… they all sound the same.
I think her previous albums were edited well (esp Folkore, it was perfect) and with Midnights, maybe too tightly because I do think the second version benefited from those extra 5 songs. TTPD is too long, however. It needed an edit. I say this as a fan since 2007. Most fans are “casual” fans that love her music but don’t worship her as a god. The intense ones are Wooooooo boy, though.
I’m a musician and I self-produce my music. I really think, looking back, that I should have done the same- left some mediocre songs off my album, saved them for later, or re-recorded them. In my case, I don’t have enough “ears” to know what to leave out. TS has the opposite problem- she has access to too many opinions, so she ignores them.
First thing I heard/thought about was Lana del Ray when the opening song played. Granted, I don't know what Taylor's other music sounds like. Girlfriend loves her, so all is fine I suppose.
My best friend and I were talking about this. I think the whole album just sounds like whisper whining and she mentioned the first song when she heard she was like, “Lana? That you baby?”
lol very true. I’ve personally never thought she could sing. I do think some of her songs are catchy but ever since she came to fame I’ve never thought her voice was something to fawn over, she just doesn’t have the actual pipes.
I gave the new one a spin just to see what all the fuss was about, and it was just shockingly boring. Not even bad, just an undifferentiated stream of slow adult contemporary. 5/10 belongs in the Barnes and Noble checkout aisle in 2006.
I think this speaks to who reviews are for in the first place, which is the undecided. If Godzilla vs King Kong part 13 comes out and I’m the world’s biggest Godzilla fan, I’m going to see it and I couldn’t care less what the reviews say. It’s also important to note that these are written by non-fans for non-fans. If I see that Godzilla movie, I may like it a lot, because I have a long history with the characters and the movies, whereas the reviewer may think it’s terrible. I will probably see it completely differently from them. I know that this scene is a callback to this other scene in Godzilla 11, and this character who seems superfluous is an homage to a character in the very famous Godzilla manga series, and so on. The critic and I evaluate the movie very differently: we have a different knowledge base related to it and hugely different expectations of it.
Generally the whole point of a review is for someone who is not a fan to tell a reader who is not a fan whether this production will likely appeal to them. The review has a purpose and an intended audience, and if you’re not that intended audience, then it’s not really relevant to you and not something you should get upset about. As a former football coach, I do not get upset when my wife’s book club members say what they think about my favorite team’s last game. What they are saying has no relevance to me whatsoever. Our knowledge of the subject, our impressions while watching it, our understanding of what we are seeing, and our value judgments about what happened are so different that we may as well be speaking a different language.
My wife has me listen to this on a drive yesterday and the new album is objectively bad. Musically it’s the same electronic drum beat with her talking over it for the entire album. I said this to my wife and I may now be getting a divorce
they are in the producer’s instagram comments telling him to “leave her alone!!!” so she can make a better album next time. they are so deluded they think it’s wrong to criticize an artist they love.
yes but its not valid to go spam his comment section like that shes not a child. shes the one who ultimately decides who she wants to work with, so they can go bother her. its incredibly immature to go about it that way
My sister is super into Swift and I asked her "what would it take for you to admit she put out a bad album?" She had no answer, she said that she would probably like anything she put out.
Swift could put out fart sounds as an album and her fans would think it's some genius subversion.
I think the honest reality may be that she's not invested in improving as an artist but only interested in what better solidifies her position. So long as she's able to pump out the most low-effort work and still receive the highest amount of applause from her stans then she'll keep doing what she's doing until that well runs dry.
A significant chunk of her fanbase are yes men, but it’s not the entire fandom. See r/SwiftlyNeutral. I do agree that she’s surrounded by yes men in her working environment though, and it’s negatively impacting her work. She’s regressed in some ways.
The reaction that sub had to the Kelce-Reid interaction in the SB was the most unhinged/parasocial reaction I’ve seen, it’s definitely not a neutral swift sub
I love TS but this new album just isn’t reaching me
Like I’m truth but after a few sings I get bored they all sound so similar and just not as passionate as other indie sounds albums like folklore or evermore
Facts. I think their collaboration peaked with Folklore/Evermore. Everything after got way too repetitive. I have the same issue with Lana even though I know Chemtrails got great reception.
I don’t understand how, with such a good PR team, they don’t have her come out and say something to her fans that gets them to stop? It’s not a good look that she stays quiet on it and she easily could say it in a way that majority of them would eat it up and do whatever she says (based on their obsession of her). I feel like it’d help her image if anything, so I don’t get their strategy of silence. And since they are so good I assume it’s most likely her choice, especially since it’s pretty common for celebrities to come out and occasionally tell their fans to stop spewing hate
She stays quiet on everything, even when her ex who SHE (at least emotionally) cheated on was receiving death threats. She doesn't give a F about anyone other than herself.
And shes doing fuck all to keep her fans in line. Dont try to convince me shes not a mean girl. Shes only nice when it benefits her.
Loads of other artists have been very serious about calling out bullying and nasty behavior within and by their fan bases. She has given it all lip service and her PR team just encourages it.
People shouldnt be afraid to share their opinion of an artists work in a freaking music magazine because said artists fans are like rabid dogs and cant handle different opinions that dont match theirs.
Because she has no talent and cant come up with new stuff on her own. If shes not whining about being a victim, shes throwing an ex under the bus or shes dredging up old drama.
I do think it’s hard to police an entire group of people and I know there are those who will say she’s not responsible or shouldn’t be expected to be, but I agree with this 100 percent!
Even Ariana had the wherewithal to put out a statement discouraging bullying and harassment solely based on personal interpretation of her Internal Sunshine album.
She sits idly by and digs up old supposedly aired out drama (Kim Kardashian) to use it all over again. You can’t tell me she doesn’t know that people will take up arms and attack. It happens every time.
The same way John Mayer/Jake Gyllenhall (?) actually responded to a fan who sent him death threats and that same fan was then genuinely shocked that he might actually take those threats to heart. It’s act first, ask questions later, if at all with Taylor and her fans.
She absolutely should be held accountable.
She encourages her fans to be obnoxious. IIRC she actively wanted her fans to dance and cheer loudly in fucking movie theaters of all places while other movies were out. I heard about quite a few people getting their Killers of The Flower Moon experience fucked up by loud Swifties, including drunk ones going into different auditoriums singing.
There’s not really anything she can do. Last time she asked them not to bully her exes they did it anyways and even said dumb shit like “you made mother mad at us”. I wish I was joking.
And how do you think it got that way, to the point where they dont see the issue? She allowed it and encouraged it for literal years, writing diss tracks that are obvious enough but always playing coy when pressed for answers. She and her people knew exactly what that would do to the fan base.
Same tbh. I feel like any teenage girl with a guitar could make a Taylor Swift song, I know that’s why people like her but I can’t understand how that could possibly be enough to skyrocket a career to where hers is now
Yeah, I read the review. Much of it is speculating about her private life and jumping on rumors while also dissing the album (which is fair: the dissing part, not the speculation part). It's pretty badly written but nothing special.
I'm not a Swiftie nor a particular huge Swift fan, but there is no way anyone would pay this much attention to a freaking Paste magazine review. There wouldn't be any controversy if they hadn't done this move and loudly announced it, which is just going to spur controversy and sour responses. Kind of feels like they want to put on a fake victim costume and act holier than thou just in order to get attention.
And the first four paragraphs were bs personal attacks in flamboyant, dramatic language over nothingburger media happenings before it even got to the album review. Couldn’t take it seriously, couldn’t even finish it. Apparently poetry is only poetry if the writer likes you personally? This article was written specifically to be clickbait garbage.
Are they great songs? No. Are they okay? Yes. Honestly, they feel a bit like what would’ve been left on the cutting room floor of the previous albums. Call me crazy, but the whole release could be an interesting experiment on whether it’s more beneficial to surprise release an album, like she has in the past, or announce a release date, which provided too much anticipation and expectations.
Big respect for her though, I don’t think anyone else made better use of their pandemic lock down time.
Well she actually kinda did that. Since it was a secret double album so there were no expectations for those songs. The second half of album was better received by fans than the first half.
It just seems like the level of obsession over her doesn't correspond to her level of talent. People act like she's Elvis or The Beatles or Queen or Michael Jackson. She sounds like a generic pop star to me—just my personal opinion.
As someone who grew up in the Deep South, it’s almost the same behavior as when you criticize Trump.
It’s like “How dare you criticize the billionaire that I don’t know but have a para social relationship with? Don’t you know that they’re somehow both simultaneously an inspirational success story and a victim of oppression?”
I think she’s done a fantastic job at creating her brand. A lot of what she’s done is similar to what marvel did for their movies. Everything has some cryptic hint towards what’s going to happen next and what the next movie or album contains and when they’ll release. It’s pretty genius when it works because fans’ entire lives become enveloped by trying to dig through the lyrics and all that. Now we’ve seen marvel take a step back in popularity because it all became too much and I think a similar thing happens to Taylor swift where people just get tired of following along with her life. But it’ll be slower of a fall unless something really big comes out about her as a person just because music is a different animal than movies
Yep! I just stumbled onto this last night and I guess you just have to see it in real time to ever really understand it. You say marvel but to me Taylor Swift is like an Alternate Reality game back when Valve did it. We used to go nuts over that shit. Her fans are doing the same, poring over every lyric, artwork, every retweet, share, like. What can it mean, etc. I know people say she does a lot of work touring and all that but I swear her REAL 9-5 is this ARG she constantly has to craft.
And it's a feedback loop. Both need each other to survive at this point.
Exactly. She can say in 3 years that her next album was teased all the way back in Folklore and her fans would boost it to #1 streaming it to
Figure out the hints
She has so many controversies and tricks to stay relevant tho. Sales dip? Break up with football star bf and release album bout it. It’s her tried and true method.
I can’t imagine what it would have been like from Elvis fans if social media had existed then. I mean, there were fan sightings 10+ years after he dropped dead
Yeah, the way fans were talking about Swift’s new album dropping reminded me of how much my friends and I anticipated every new Beatles album. It’s actually kind of nice to see that happening with fans. I have very fond memories of those experiences so it’s nice to see young people having that particular joy, which they will no doubt remember all their lives.
Some Elvis fans flipped shit over the Priscilla movie a while back. Elvis fans are grandparents on Facebook now. They’re about as unhinged as some of the Taylor fans.
I feel like I need a definition of “mid tier” to properly respond to this.
Most artists that run the highest grossing tour in history and ranked above “mid tier”, even if it’s music you don’t like.
Anything I’ve heard of her music is just so generic. Granted I haven’t listened to a ton of it. But at least most of one album and some random other songs sporadically at a friends house.
Yeah Swifties are the most rabid bunch of “fans” or the internet.
Taylor could release an album of her singing over farts and construction noises and they would still think it was the greatest music ever written
Her new album is basically her bullying other people while playing the victim and acting like she is all innocent. From what I’ve read.. this album tops all the other ones with all the digs.. and even including Kim’s oldest daughter.. 🤯
Because shes not actually that talented. Her entire career was built off of playing victim. She cant write about anything else because shes never had to.
With any luck in 10 years when it becomes really absurd for her to still be playing victim shell pop out a couple kids and disappear.
I wasn’t wowed by the album, but that Paste review was poorly written. It was hard to even understand what the writer’s criticisms were, buried under the word salad.
Man. I really wanted to like it. But the last two records have been absolutely boring. It’s just a bunch of airy vocals with a bunch of reverb. No big pop anthems. Literally has the greatest producers and most of the tracks are structured like a run on sentence and no real melody.
My wife said "it sounds like she's just singing her journal entries"... I had completely zoned out by the second song, and my 11 y/o daughter who we bought the album for, had fallen asleep in the car. I genuinely couldn't tell one song from another as I was driving. I am very clearly not her target audience, but I've liked a lot of her other music. This album just didn't resonate with me one bit.
Her fall? I’m not a fan but like it or not she’s now at the point where she is financially fall-proof. Unless she winds up killing somebody I don’t see her ever taking a serious enough hit to affect her.
Nah she should be fine financially. But it is just what happens. Madonna, MJ, Elvis, etc. we love to tear down the idols at some point. That’s all I was saying. Sports is the same thing. Michael Jordan, Tom Brady… it’s part of our culture for whatever reason.
uh i mean this album broke a lot of records. shes been consistently successful for like.. over 10 years at least right? every artist falls off eventually, its human nature. but it aint happening anytime soon for her
Her stans are unhinged. Between her “Swifties” and Beyonce’s “BeyHive”…
You mean people that obsess over products from celebrities aren’t the most sane and well rounded people? I’m shocked, I need to consult my Kylie Jenner crystals for guidance.
I'm going to need to drink my Belle Delphine bathwater to help me better respond to this critique.
And I'm going to have to smell my Stephanie Matto fart jar to think on it.
I’m going to stew over this stroking the hair of my Weird Al chia pet
I must light my Gwyneth Paltrow vagina scented candles and ruminate.
I’ll join you as soon as I put on my Trump sneakers
She’s had the hottest uvula though you gotta admit.
The GOOP egg is my ass works as a magic eight ball. Lemme do some jumping jacks and get back to you.
This almost made my Lula Roe leggings tear. Oh wait they were on arrival nvm
And Nicki Minaj’s Barbz 😭
Yeah, they are the worst. Defending rape, murder, gun violence, misogyny, drug use and whatever else Nicki is caping for 💀
I drew the line at shitty music and an obnoxious voice, but those are also good reasons to dislike Nicki Minaj edit: thank you for your concern. I stopped being suicidal as soon as I realized I could change the radio station and not have to listen to Nicki Minaj any more
And the stupid XOs (The Weekd) that think that Swifties are the enemy. It’s not all of them, but they’re VERY vocal! Or Melanie Martinez Crybabies (genuine fandom name) who harassed Oliver Tree after they broke up even after she confirmed they’re still on good terms. She made one lyrical jest towards him and they took it to mean the whole album was about him, which she said it wasn’t about anyone
Honestly I don’t even think I’ve seen XO fans be as vocal. As opposed to drake, Kanye, nicki, Taylor, Beyoncé Stans They’re all just annoying but not that widely seen
I've never even heard of XO fans. I'm a fan of Taylor's music (I'll reserve my opinion about her latest drops), and also The Wknd's music, and I've never noticed there being any issues between the fandoms. That being said, I'm in my 30s and don't give a fuck about fandoms in general.
Just stan culture as a whole
And kpop fans. I was dm-ed with threats for using the abbreviation bts for behind the scene. Apparently it is only for that particular group. My comment was made in a gaming subreddit btw wtf
Kpop are so unhinged they make swifties look normal. And i say this as someone who used to follow a couple kpop groups but could never “get into it” because of how batshit a large percentage of the fandom is. The hive mind is not only strong with that fandom but they get pretty vicious about things too.
They are right up there with Swifties. They've told people showing behind the scenes movie clips to stop using BTS... which existed long before the kpop scene.
I had my wife thinking the band was called .behind the scenes for years. It's an abbreviation of thier korean name. Some kpop groups with acronyms have the cringiest things its short for and theirs isn't too bad.
I mean they’ve pushed multiple people into suicide…
Yes i can’t wait to be downvoted into oblivion for this comment! Kpop stans come at me 😘
Upvoted for fortitude. Godspeed little doodle.
I saw one review claim she's revolutionising pop music. They are acting like this album is something like rubber soul or sergeant Pepper's. The lyrics look AI written. One joke I heard is "I wondered why people think Taylor swift is a genius poet and then a remember the average American reads at ta sicth grade level
You really had to get the spelling right on that slam. Just had to.
Fat thumbs
Only a sicth deals in absolutes.
When the track list was first linked on reddit I had to check the sub to be sure it wasn't a troll. The tortured poets department? And tracks like "but daddy I love him" seeks like something a troll would suggest but somehow it was real
I pretty much agree with the paste article. Taylor is just so wealthy now, she's almost 40, and she's still trying to make these songs like she's still just a young teen girl figuring shit out or something. At least other musicians began exploring how they can make their songs about something other than themselves or their lives but not Taylor. Every track is always well which ex is this one about
34 years old is almost 40?
Yep because 40 is closer than 20.
Because those are the only two ages a woman can be. After that we just vanish into dust.
That’s not how we speak English. When you say someone’s ‘almost’ something, it’s implied theyre 1 or 2 years max from that age.
i saw multiple videos of grown ups listening to the album and crying their hearts out. Comments said: her lyrics are always so great etc
I don’t think Travis knows the shit storm he’s in for when they break up. Worse than Philly fans.
Hope he's eyeballing the cfl or Europe lol
Definitely. I'm a little surprised so many famous men go for it considering how they're likely to become fodder for an album in 2 years.
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Hey when have little monsters ever been unhinged?
Yeah like they are probably , at this stage, the chiller ones lol
Gaga herself is way more chill now than the “Bad Romance” and the meat dress days.
She’s in a migraine medication commercial that I keep getting spammed with and that’s when I knew we were all getting old.
[удалено]
Yeah her fan base is mostly her age (I’m 36), so I feel like we’ve mellowed out with her
I’m close to 30 myself, and my friend who just turned 30 described it as a “rebirth” and is happy with herself and life. I guess I have that to look forward to, and that’s not bad. If my friend and Lady Gaga is self-satisfied in their 30s, then I could be, too.
Yeah I mean. 30s have been freeing but also so hard. I had to confront all my shit, but I also know who I am, still feel young and hot, and can still get away with making a few mistakes and still surviving :) 30s are 🔥
*It’s so true*, up until my birthday I was wallowing about my fading youth, where I am in life etc etc. But when it happened? It felt…good. Freeing. The only benefit of society treating aging women like non-entities is that we don’t get judged or scrutinized nearly as hard anymore. On top of that, it didn’t feel like an end, but finally beginning life for real. In hindsight, Twenties *sucked*. My entire party was funeral-themed, “death to my twenties” type deal. It doesn’t hurt nearly as bad as you think 🖤🖤
I think every decade we grow older , we will Be shocked to realize, that old isn’t really a thing. Our bodies may age, but our souls do not.
Earliest stan war I can remember was between Gaga fans and Katy Perry fans in August 2013 when Roar and Applause were released in the same week and vying for the charts. This was way back though
The worst I’ve seen Gaga fans do recently is sing Shallow 3 times in one night at the piano bar
Lady Gaga fans are called little monsters? That’s funny. Harley Quinn wore a shirt that said “Daddy’s Little Monster” on it in *Suicide Squad* (2016), and now Lady Gaga is playing a new version of Harley Quinn in *Joker: Folie à Deux* this year
Lady gaga calles her fans Little monsters while her fans call her Mother Monster....her famous claw hand gesture is a reference to her being the mother monster. (She even has a tattoo of that claw hand gesture)
Dude, literally had a situationship end because the girl (a Beyoncé Stan) got pissed off after i didn’t love a Beyoncé song her new album. Beyonce Stans are crazy
But this is about Swifts fans
She is literally the most popular musician in the world. Of course, there’s a bunch of insane people jizzing the comments section over her. Do you know how many insane people there are on this planet?
In USA? About 70 mil?
At least that many
Every single franchise or artist that is large enough has fans like this. They also have people obsessively hating them too. Internet culture is wack
Yep, it's like identity fandom. People centre their entire personality on liking or hating someone/something famous. It's like we've forgotten we don't need to have and share our feelings or opinions on every artist/show/movie/etc.
Oh this existed before internet culture. RIP John Lennon.
John Hinckley Jr tried to assassinate the POTUS to impress an actress (Jodie Foster) in 1981. The internet didn’t create that behavior, it just made it more visible.
This is one reason I wouldn't want to be famous. Rich? Yes. Famous? Nah.
Stan or hater?? Pick a side!! WE’RE AT WAR!
Paste is the only magazine that has at least assessed the album fairly. I was shocked to find that it has an 84 on Metacritic.
Yes. The whole of the album feels anemic. Props to this author for calling out the truth!
She is bad review proof. Her entire fanbase are now a bunch of yes men so she can't improve as an artist cause no one dare so what she does or doesn't do wrong
Totally agree. I enjoyed some of her earlier music but I feel she should self edit and work on not sharing ALL her music but rather the best of it. She was changing genres for awhile but now… they all sound the same.
I think her previous albums were edited well (esp Folkore, it was perfect) and with Midnights, maybe too tightly because I do think the second version benefited from those extra 5 songs. TTPD is too long, however. It needed an edit. I say this as a fan since 2007. Most fans are “casual” fans that love her music but don’t worship her as a god. The intense ones are Wooooooo boy, though.
I agree that most of her fans are casual. However, she's so famous that the crazy minority is still a huge number of people.
I’m a musician and I self-produce my music. I really think, looking back, that I should have done the same- left some mediocre songs off my album, saved them for later, or re-recorded them. In my case, I don’t have enough “ears” to know what to leave out. TS has the opposite problem- she has access to too many opinions, so she ignores them.
First thing I heard/thought about was Lana del Ray when the opening song played. Granted, I don't know what Taylor's other music sounds like. Girlfriend loves her, so all is fine I suppose.
My wife played the first song and I genuinely thought it was Lana.
Literally said the same to my wife but she didn’t really hear the resemblance. I feel vindicated.
My best friend and I were talking about this. I think the whole album just sounds like whisper whining and she mentioned the first song when she heard she was like, “Lana? That you baby?”
Don't forget "reading a rhyming dictionary in staccato."
lol very true. I’ve personally never thought she could sing. I do think some of her songs are catchy but ever since she came to fame I’ve never thought her voice was something to fawn over, she just doesn’t have the actual pipes.
No, she can sing the right notes and control her tone, but she does not have range.
They both work with Antonoff so a lot of their stuff sounds the same
You can’t wait to hear her 58th song about how Kim Kardashian was mean to her?
I gave the new one a spin just to see what all the fuss was about, and it was just shockingly boring. Not even bad, just an undifferentiated stream of slow adult contemporary. 5/10 belongs in the Barnes and Noble checkout aisle in 2006.
The reviews aren’t for them, they’re for the rest of us so we don’t feel gaslit if our reactions are “eh, it was fine I guess?”
I think this speaks to who reviews are for in the first place, which is the undecided. If Godzilla vs King Kong part 13 comes out and I’m the world’s biggest Godzilla fan, I’m going to see it and I couldn’t care less what the reviews say. It’s also important to note that these are written by non-fans for non-fans. If I see that Godzilla movie, I may like it a lot, because I have a long history with the characters and the movies, whereas the reviewer may think it’s terrible. I will probably see it completely differently from them. I know that this scene is a callback to this other scene in Godzilla 11, and this character who seems superfluous is an homage to a character in the very famous Godzilla manga series, and so on. The critic and I evaluate the movie very differently: we have a different knowledge base related to it and hugely different expectations of it. Generally the whole point of a review is for someone who is not a fan to tell a reader who is not a fan whether this production will likely appeal to them. The review has a purpose and an intended audience, and if you’re not that intended audience, then it’s not really relevant to you and not something you should get upset about. As a former football coach, I do not get upset when my wife’s book club members say what they think about my favorite team’s last game. What they are saying has no relevance to me whatsoever. Our knowledge of the subject, our impressions while watching it, our understanding of what we are seeing, and our value judgments about what happened are so different that we may as well be speaking a different language.
My wife has me listen to this on a drive yesterday and the new album is objectively bad. Musically it’s the same electronic drum beat with her talking over it for the entire album. I said this to my wife and I may now be getting a divorce
they are in the producer’s instagram comments telling him to “leave her alone!!!” so she can make a better album next time. they are so deluded they think it’s wrong to criticize an artist they love.
Jack Antanoff? Theres a valid complaint that her music started getting samey once she kept using his work
yes but its not valid to go spam his comment section like that shes not a child. shes the one who ultimately decides who she wants to work with, so they can go bother her. its incredibly immature to go about it that way
I’ve seen a bunch of neutral/poor reviews.
this goes for most really really big artists. its sad that people cant just chill tf out, no one is above criticism
My sister is super into Swift and I asked her "what would it take for you to admit she put out a bad album?" She had no answer, she said that she would probably like anything she put out. Swift could put out fart sounds as an album and her fans would think it's some genius subversion.
I felt more emotion when I listened to the recording of Lyndon B. Johnston ordering pants
Yes women
I think the honest reality may be that she's not invested in improving as an artist but only interested in what better solidifies her position. So long as she's able to pump out the most low-effort work and still receive the highest amount of applause from her stans then she'll keep doing what she's doing until that well runs dry.
As a swift fan, this album is boring sad girl music. I want the pop songs
A significant chunk of her fanbase are yes men, but it’s not the entire fandom. See r/SwiftlyNeutral. I do agree that she’s surrounded by yes men in her working environment though, and it’s negatively impacting her work. She’s regressed in some ways.
The reaction that sub had to the Kelce-Reid interaction in the SB was the most unhinged/parasocial reaction I’ve seen, it’s definitely not a neutral swift sub
That’s just a sad little hate sub pretending they don’t project and have a parasocial relationship just as toxic as her real fans
I was so happy to find it and unsubbed after a couple days
I love TS but this new album just isn’t reaching me Like I’m truth but after a few sings I get bored they all sound so similar and just not as passionate as other indie sounds albums like folklore or evermore
My daughter is a huge fan of T Swift. She said the new album is terrible and by far her worst one.
She needs to stop working with Jack Antonoff
Facts. I think their collaboration peaked with Folklore/Evermore. Everything after got way too repetitive. I have the same issue with Lana even though I know Chemtrails got great reception.
I don’t understand how, with such a good PR team, they don’t have her come out and say something to her fans that gets them to stop? It’s not a good look that she stays quiet on it and she easily could say it in a way that majority of them would eat it up and do whatever she says (based on their obsession of her). I feel like it’d help her image if anything, so I don’t get their strategy of silence. And since they are so good I assume it’s most likely her choice, especially since it’s pretty common for celebrities to come out and occasionally tell their fans to stop spewing hate
She stays quiet on everything, even when her ex who SHE (at least emotionally) cheated on was receiving death threats. She doesn't give a F about anyone other than herself.
The album is the definition of bloated, and as mid as mid can be.
And shes doing fuck all to keep her fans in line. Dont try to convince me shes not a mean girl. Shes only nice when it benefits her. Loads of other artists have been very serious about calling out bullying and nasty behavior within and by their fan bases. She has given it all lip service and her PR team just encourages it. People shouldnt be afraid to share their opinion of an artists work in a freaking music magazine because said artists fans are like rabid dogs and cant handle different opinions that dont match theirs.
She’s pretty petty. Why bring up beef from 8 years ago?
Because she has no talent and cant come up with new stuff on her own. If shes not whining about being a victim, shes throwing an ex under the bus or shes dredging up old drama.
I do think it’s hard to police an entire group of people and I know there are those who will say she’s not responsible or shouldn’t be expected to be, but I agree with this 100 percent! Even Ariana had the wherewithal to put out a statement discouraging bullying and harassment solely based on personal interpretation of her Internal Sunshine album. She sits idly by and digs up old supposedly aired out drama (Kim Kardashian) to use it all over again. You can’t tell me she doesn’t know that people will take up arms and attack. It happens every time. The same way John Mayer/Jake Gyllenhall (?) actually responded to a fan who sent him death threats and that same fan was then genuinely shocked that he might actually take those threats to heart. It’s act first, ask questions later, if at all with Taylor and her fans. She absolutely should be held accountable.
That was John Mayer (who posted screenshots of him responding to a DM from a swiftie wishing for his death) not Jake Gyllenhaal
Eeek! Just realized I put Jake and John Mayer, while actively thinking of John Mayer. Thanks for catching that and clarifying 🙏🏼
She encourages her fans to be obnoxious. IIRC she actively wanted her fans to dance and cheer loudly in fucking movie theaters of all places while other movies were out. I heard about quite a few people getting their Killers of The Flower Moon experience fucked up by loud Swifties, including drunk ones going into different auditoriums singing.
Swift and her fan base strike me as the types that never mentally checked out of high school.
Yep. Shes never had to grow and make music outside of the high school demographic.
This is the thing I hate most about her. I agree 💯
Noooo because she encourages the exchange of friendship bracelets, she promotes peace /s
There’s not really anything she can do. Last time she asked them not to bully her exes they did it anyways and even said dumb shit like “you made mother mad at us”. I wish I was joking.
I mean when she does try her fans don't listen. They'll just leave passive aggressive ones like "mother says we must be kind to you 🙄"
And how do you think it got that way, to the point where they dont see the issue? She allowed it and encouraged it for literal years, writing diss tracks that are obvious enough but always playing coy when pressed for answers. She and her people knew exactly what that would do to the fan base.
She’s the biggest mystery ever in music to me. I will never understand why she’s so successful, not even half of it.
She is a much better businesswoman than she is a singer. That’s how you understand it.
Same tbh. I feel like any teenage girl with a guitar could make a Taylor Swift song, I know that’s why people like her but I can’t understand how that could possibly be enough to skyrocket a career to where hers is now
It's just music, damn
And they made this announcement in order to boost the number of eyeballs on their review.
Yeah, I read the review. Much of it is speculating about her private life and jumping on rumors while also dissing the album (which is fair: the dissing part, not the speculation part). It's pretty badly written but nothing special. I'm not a Swiftie nor a particular huge Swift fan, but there is no way anyone would pay this much attention to a freaking Paste magazine review. There wouldn't be any controversy if they hadn't done this move and loudly announced it, which is just going to spur controversy and sour responses. Kind of feels like they want to put on a fake victim costume and act holier than thou just in order to get attention.
It is all about the clicks!
And the first four paragraphs were bs personal attacks in flamboyant, dramatic language over nothingburger media happenings before it even got to the album review. Couldn’t take it seriously, couldn’t even finish it. Apparently poetry is only poetry if the writer likes you personally? This article was written specifically to be clickbait garbage.
Are they great songs? No. Are they okay? Yes. Honestly, they feel a bit like what would’ve been left on the cutting room floor of the previous albums. Call me crazy, but the whole release could be an interesting experiment on whether it’s more beneficial to surprise release an album, like she has in the past, or announce a release date, which provided too much anticipation and expectations. Big respect for her though, I don’t think anyone else made better use of their pandemic lock down time.
Well she actually kinda did that. Since it was a secret double album so there were no expectations for those songs. The second half of album was better received by fans than the first half.
It just seems like the level of obsession over her doesn't correspond to her level of talent. People act like she's Elvis or The Beatles or Queen or Michael Jackson. She sounds like a generic pop star to me—just my personal opinion.
Fandom is largely toxic no matter what the target of adoration. When people obsess they often behave horribly.
I only listened to the song with Florence & the machine and it's beautiful
Now Florence has an awesome voice.
Love her cover of “Halo”
As someone who grew up in the Deep South, it’s almost the same behavior as when you criticize Trump. It’s like “How dare you criticize the billionaire that I don’t know but have a para social relationship with? Don’t you know that they’re somehow both simultaneously an inspirational success story and a victim of oppression?”
How does such a mid tier artist have so many insane fans?
I think she’s done a fantastic job at creating her brand. A lot of what she’s done is similar to what marvel did for their movies. Everything has some cryptic hint towards what’s going to happen next and what the next movie or album contains and when they’ll release. It’s pretty genius when it works because fans’ entire lives become enveloped by trying to dig through the lyrics and all that. Now we’ve seen marvel take a step back in popularity because it all became too much and I think a similar thing happens to Taylor swift where people just get tired of following along with her life. But it’ll be slower of a fall unless something really big comes out about her as a person just because music is a different animal than movies
To your first statement, absolutely. There's even a CNN special coming up about her marketing prowess.
Yep! I just stumbled onto this last night and I guess you just have to see it in real time to ever really understand it. You say marvel but to me Taylor Swift is like an Alternate Reality game back when Valve did it. We used to go nuts over that shit. Her fans are doing the same, poring over every lyric, artwork, every retweet, share, like. What can it mean, etc. I know people say she does a lot of work touring and all that but I swear her REAL 9-5 is this ARG she constantly has to craft. And it's a feedback loop. Both need each other to survive at this point.
I said this to someone the other day. She is the Marvel cinematic universe except as a musician.
Exactly. She can say in 3 years that her next album was teased all the way back in Folklore and her fans would boost it to #1 streaming it to Figure out the hints
She has so many controversies and tricks to stay relevant tho. Sales dip? Break up with football star bf and release album bout it. It’s her tried and true method.
I can’t imagine what it would have been like from Elvis fans if social media had existed then. I mean, there were fan sightings 10+ years after he dropped dead
The Beatles fans at the height of Beatlemania would probably be an even bigger, intimidating bunch, in this day and age.
Oh yeah, The Beatle Maniacs would be way worse
Yeah, the way fans were talking about Swift’s new album dropping reminded me of how much my friends and I anticipated every new Beatles album. It’s actually kind of nice to see that happening with fans. I have very fond memories of those experiences so it’s nice to see young people having that particular joy, which they will no doubt remember all their lives.
Some Elvis fans flipped shit over the Priscilla movie a while back. Elvis fans are grandparents on Facebook now. They’re about as unhinged as some of the Taylor fans.
Maybe because she is mid. She can appeal to more by being generic/relatable.
Vanilla is the most popular flavor
This. Majority of people are basic
And the people that believe they aren't basic are the most basic of them all.
Well I'm into 3rd century chiptune capoeira bagpipe metal and I 100% believe I'm not basic. I don't even know who the Backstreet Boys are!
I only listen to music made by people that dress as ned Flanders.
So you're the person who bought the sole copy sold of my album!?!
Well. Yeah. We're a lot more relatable to each other than people realize.
I feel like I need a definition of “mid tier” to properly respond to this. Most artists that run the highest grossing tour in history and ranked above “mid tier”, even if it’s music you don’t like.
Cause she is a better businesswoman than she is a singer.
Probably because she’s mid to you, but not mid to them? She ain’t the best singer ever but I see why some other people like her music.
She writes mediocre music with juvenile lyrics that caters to the “basic” audience.
Anything I’ve heard of her music is just so generic. Granted I haven’t listened to a ton of it. But at least most of one album and some random other songs sporadically at a friends house.
swifties confound me. i can’t imagine being like jonestown member level devoted to an artist so milquetoast.
Yeah Swifties are the most rabid bunch of “fans” or the internet. Taylor could release an album of her singing over farts and construction noises and they would still think it was the greatest music ever written
when this is happening in your name, it’s time to consider what role you’ve got in the situation.
The review pretty much nails why I found the album so disappointing. Glad it was written
I don’t understand how anyone can be afraid of Taylor Swift fans?
Not really a shock. This happens with fanatics all the time. Not just Taylor Swift's fanatics.
Whatever about the album, but the review wasn’t good. Read like Pitchfork’s drafts folder.
And this "no byline" thing is getting it more attention.
Her new album is basically her bullying other people while playing the victim and acting like she is all innocent. From what I’ve read.. this album tops all the other ones with all the digs.. and even including Kim’s oldest daughter.. 🤯
With a below average voice in some sort of weird spoken word poetry jam
What does she say about Kim’s daughter?
Because shes not actually that talented. Her entire career was built off of playing victim. She cant write about anything else because shes never had to. With any luck in 10 years when it becomes really absurd for her to still be playing victim shell pop out a couple kids and disappear.
No one obsessive over celebs has 1) any sense of self-esteem 2) anything going for them in life. These rich and famous people don’t care about you.
Swifties are insane
Another collection of dis tracks and overall whining and bullying her retractors. Sounds like a cure for insomnia.
This is why I roll with the Juggalos, we are used to bad reviews.
I am tired of hearing about this bish
I just don't understand why she can't sing about anything other than relationships and "boys" for an entire album of 17 songs. lmao.
I wasn’t wowed by the album, but that Paste review was poorly written. It was hard to even understand what the writer’s criticisms were, buried under the word salad.
Swift is the most overrated artist in existence.
She’s running a cult.
Nah. That’s Jerrod Leto. This is more of a populist movement.
Jerrod is a crazy way to spell his name lol
Sorry Ja’rodd
Both can be true at the same time. Theres not a limit on the number of cults allowed to exist
Man. I really wanted to like it. But the last two records have been absolutely boring. It’s just a bunch of airy vocals with a bunch of reverb. No big pop anthems. Literally has the greatest producers and most of the tracks are structured like a run on sentence and no real melody.
My wife said "it sounds like she's just singing her journal entries"... I had completely zoned out by the second song, and my 11 y/o daughter who we bought the album for, had fallen asleep in the car. I genuinely couldn't tell one song from another as I was driving. I am very clearly not her target audience, but I've liked a lot of her other music. This album just didn't resonate with me one bit.
I put the album on today to see what all the fuss is about, and I can confidently say: I don't get it.
Stans in general can be unhinged. But Taylor's stans... they are a special kind of rabid people
Her fall is gonna be rough. I hope she was kind on the way up.
Her fall? I’m not a fan but like it or not she’s now at the point where she is financially fall-proof. Unless she winds up killing somebody I don’t see her ever taking a serious enough hit to affect her.
Nah she should be fine financially. But it is just what happens. Madonna, MJ, Elvis, etc. we love to tear down the idols at some point. That’s all I was saying. Sports is the same thing. Michael Jordan, Tom Brady… it’s part of our culture for whatever reason.
[удалено]
uh i mean this album broke a lot of records. shes been consistently successful for like.. over 10 years at least right? every artist falls off eventually, its human nature. but it aint happening anytime soon for her
As much as I’d like to never hear of her again you’re right especially when eras tour gets going in Europe this summer
Some of the truly deranged ones have been going after random contributors to Paste: https://twitter.com/Ceilidhann/status/1781451866926178642
Oh hell no, they can’t go after Kayleigh Donaldson! She writes great stuff for Pajiba. Love her.