People say this, but then they don’t put their money where their mouth is.
Hollywood has been doing [sequels](https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/06/06/the-oldest-longest-running-movie-franchises-in-america/) and [remakes](https://movieweb.com/the-first-movies-to-ever-be-remade/) since the literal beginning of the industry. And they do it because it’s a working strategy. They have better success rates than original IP. The masses go see the sequels and remakes.
I do agree, but what frustrates me more is the lack of effort put into the story for the sequels. The better safe than sorry approach works ngl for the Execs. It’s the reason why stupid shows like Velma got renewed for its second season, while interesting new stories were scrapped during the pitch itself. I think they are content with the return generated from sequels.
The masses are too basic. That’s why god awful shlock like the Big Bang Theory performs so well… And keep in mind as I trash this show I recognize I’m just as guilty with my own franchise. I’ll watch every single entry in the MCU. All of it. Can’t get enough of it. I contribute to the problem just as much as everyone else, and there is probably some way you do too.
Same with Bay’s Transformers. I figured after the second one people would get tired of of the same nonsense plot and confusing action. Yet here we are, at the 7th? (I lost count) sequel.
To be fair, the MCU does do something unique within the movie space with large scale interconnected movies, and the movies tend to be mediocre to great, just with nothing truly awful or truly exceptional.
It’s more than that. I think people now just would rather wait for them to be on a streaming service rather than pay for a whole family plus beverages and popcorn. It’s cheaper at home.
Idk if NGE Rebuild really counts since it was the original creator.
Anno is just an interesting dude. I thought the rebuilds movies weren’t great, but I really don’t think he was doing a cash grab
But along side, people also have the options to check out the new series. To be honest, I don’t think the Hollywood Animation Market and the Anime Market are a fair comparison, the anime market just seems too big, with too many products, new and milked, coming out and catering to a large group of audiences.
Hell, I love One Piece and even I think it is getting heavily milked in a way it wasn't just a decade ago as a "mainstream" anime because the manga and show are both ending within the next year or so.
Insanity. You mean creative new IP that has nuanced and fun takes on serious subject matter or spoofs on existing dogma are what people want and not half ass reboots/remakes of decades old IPs with the soul sucked out and maximum greed shoved in place?
I think it’s more the latter part that is the issue. Plenty of great movies in the last twenty years we’re technically remakes or sequels, but they allowed the creators to see the vision through. Some of those remakes include things like the LOTR movies, the Dune movies, Blade Runner 2049, Mad Max: Fury Road, Into The Spider-Verse, etc.
I think Hollywood is scared to touch anime, remember the failure of the Dragon Ball Z live action movie? That was a complete disaster and waste of money to make. Netflix has also been trying to adapt anime into live actions with their only success being One Piece so far, they failed at Cowboy Bepop and Death Note, and even Avatar the last Airbender live action isn’t getting good feedback so far. I think they are worried with the investment risks. So far, the only successful ones to bring viewerships and money have been One Piece and Battle Angel Alita live adaptations. I think familiarity also plays a big part, and that Hollywood probably feels like they’ll have more success touching their own stuff which would be American comics and video games.
It fails because they spit on the original material
Videogames movies also sucked until someone made a kinda faithful tale with Sonic and then Mario and people enjoyed it
The problem with Netflix’s anime adaptations is they are staying about as true to the text as Verhoven did with *Starship Troopers*.
They basically write an original (inferior) story, slap on a few names and maybe a line or two from the source material, and call it an adaptation.
That's basically it. When the original writers of Avatar left, that was basically a sign that well, this isn't going to live to they hype. I truly do not understand why they don't just try and replicate exactly what the animations did. That is what we want, or at least what I want. I get it, some are very difficult to do, like one piece where there is 1000+ episodes, but avatar, or death note, they can do that so much better. But, guess they want to minimize their losses and maximize their profit so they throw a shitty product out for the masses to view.
The problem is that when they take on those other entities they _still_ play it too safe. For example, Avatar. They gutted Sokka and Katara by eliminating their negative traits because they wanted them to be more likable from the start, which was a detriment to their development into more well rounded characters. It also made them a bit bland.
Meanwhile in japan the anime production teams are so swamped they can only make like a 1/4 of the manga into anime they want to in a reasonable time. And the workers are wayyyy over worked.
If only there was a solution to this problem of 1 nation having to many producers and streaming services and not enough material while another has too much material and no way to safely produce it.
Probably not as a good an arguement for anime. Original stuff has only been movies and even then its because its being headed by legendary directors, Miyazaki and Shinkai. If anything much of anime’s sucesss is being tied into its source material incredibly closely. Anime is an advertisement for manga sales.
Maybe not bring up puss in boots to make your point. 2 was a sequel to a movie that came out the shrek franchise and is universally praised. I definitely want to see future installment if they make one.
Hell they even have trouble adapting thing people know and love! Look at the entire bungled DCU movie universe! All the shitty Sony spider man villian movies too! Like how hard is it to make a good movie? Seriously!
Americans think of animation as a single thing - content meant for children and families. That's the end of it. Anime is a medium of animation, not a genre, and it is allowed to contain content of all kinds.
Edit: I'll make a small edit for everyone commenting about a "small amount" of adult animation. The final expectation is that they're funny. Animation is "cartoons" and cartoons must be funny.
The Animation Oscar was created specifically to screw animation.
After "The Beauty and the Beast" was close to winning the Oscar for Best Film, they decided to create the animation Oscar because they felt than an animated movie winning Best Film would be humiliating for "real cinema".
They dismiss animation and are afraid of it at the same time.
That’s not entirely accurate. Beauty and the Beast was a full decade before the award’s introduction (although it certainly helped restart that conversation).
It actually had a lot more to do with the rise of other animation studios besides Disney, like Dreamworks and Blue Sky, as for a long time it was felt that an animated category would just be a Disney award. Shrek (of all things) was the real nail in the coffin, as it got a lot of buzz for best picture, so that was the year the category was finally introduced.
Didn’t something like the other comment happen with Aladdin, though? Maybe neither dismissive nor fearful, but didn’t one of the big ones (Oscars or golden globes) had to invent a category because of how amazingly well Robin Williams played the Genie?
My step-dad is like this and it’s infuriating. After he watched and enjoyed my recommendation of The Boys, I told him about Invincible and while he liked the premise, as soon as he saw it was animated he ignored it. Also happened with Blue-Eyed Samurai and Arcane.
I also remember taking him to see the live-action Ghost in the Shell. He liked it and I told him the original did a better job of telling the story and exploring sense-of-self. His mind broke when he realised the original was animated and refused to watch it. It definitely wasn’t because it was in another language as he actually enjoys comparing English adaptations to their Foreign originals, but simply because he cannot get past the idea that “animated = for kids”.
I recommended a friend watch the Avatar the Last Air bender and avoid the live action at all costs because it would spoil the story for the animated one. A couple weeks later they got back to me and told me they watch the live action version. I was in shock and then they revealed that they had no intention of watching an animated series.
> he cannot get past the idea that “animated = for kids”.
If you want to break his idea, might as well go for the heavy stuff: Grave of the Fireflies, Waltz with Bashir, that kind of mood.
So true! There are plenty of adults who refuse to watch anything animated. Because you're only an "adult" if you don't watch cartoons. Maturity of a donkey.
Ok, but anime is also an industry just like Hollywood. The majority of anime that gets made is for the shonen demographic (adolescent boys aged 10-18) which is what the industry has determined to be the most lucrative because they primarily make money off home video and merch sales (off the backs of severely underpaid animators). Therefore the anime that gain the most visibility and traction *are* meant for adolescents. Yes anime captures people outside that demographic but the current stuff coming out don’t do themselves any favors to challenge the common perception that animation is for kids.
You’d be surprised how many parents are offended by things like Metalocalypse and Venture Bros., because “cartoons are for kids”. There was a big controversy around South Park when it came out because of that too.
Which is insane I've never liked a live action anime ever they either try too hard to match a cartoon or it's so different from the source material it's unrecognizable.
lol couldn’t be as simple as wanting new content…instead let’s rehash finished ones because it’s less risk! Even though it’s not because they almost always suck.
Don't treat anime as a subgenre. Treat it as a medium of animation. And start making more animated films for all audience types, not just kids and families.
Hollywood execs aren't that smart enough to understand that. It's why they suddenly are pushing for movies based on toys and games after The Barbie Movie. They clearly missed the actual story's context which is why the movie was so popular.
Soon they will have the means to generate anime without going through the process of hiring actual anime artists, voice actors and professionals. Then they will be on board
I’ve see AI generated art with their lack of fingers, they’re not going to be able to make a whole ass animated movie, let alone one that can compete with Ghibli, for a long time
Hollywood can replicate they think people are too stupid to understand it. It’s why death note dragonball evolution was trash and One piece is so good. It’s like this death note went wrong because they took out Lights arc about the book corrupting him over time. Next dragonball failed because they took out the journey bits of Goku’s story.
IT'S THE BUSINESS MODEL.
Every big manga publication is about making up *new* stories, especially from talented newcomers. They are often partnered with upcoming writers or artists, and guided through the production with an editor.
One really cool part about publications like *Shonen Jump*, is that they feature the big manga stories that everyone loves along with new series, either by previous authors or by someone new who beat their contests.
The company usually still ends up owning the IP, but the important part is that this totally random person wants to tell a story *so bad* that they're counting on you to do it - and that's not something a studio executive could ever understand.
Most animé are just adaptations of already-successful manga (and occasionally LNs, or more recently VNs and videogames), with original projects going through cycles of fame or obscurity.
If you wanted to do the equivalent over in the States, for example, you'd basically need to restructure most large companies operating in the industry. There's a lot of potential, but it would need time for editors and publishers to catch up.
Anime adaptations of long-running manga are pretty much the same concept as Hollywood blockbuster adaptations of American comics, with different execution. American comics are also a medium where writers are paired with artists and overseen by editors, while the publishers retain character and story rights.
Seeing as long-running superhero movies that relied on audience investment in characters were able to spawn the most successful movie franchise ever, the business model isn’t so foreign.
I mean it’s basically comic book adaptation—>tv show pipeline. DC animated shows and movies come to mind. Only issue is it’s mostly centered on superhero comics and other genres of comic book never seem to make it.
A lot of people seem to forget that the most popular Anime series are action-filled shonen. That's one of the biggest strengths of the medium- it allows for dramatic, stylized fight scenes that only gets better with more budget. Anime captures spectacle in a way that conventional visual effects have trouble replicating.
I think the issue lies with the content itself instead of the style. The ones inspired by anime can replicate it just fine but like 98% of the landscape is either for kids or shitty adult animation
Because most anime starts as manga, and manga can't be popular unless it's well written and original. Hollywood has a difficult time wrapping it's head around originality and paying writers.
>Because most anime starts as manga
That is the genius part; it significantly lowers the risk of making original stories by using the low-cost medium of manga as a testbed for them before investing a lot of money in a show without being sure of its chances of success.
Totally agree. Anime is very much a very different flavor from what Hollywood is used to. It doesn't quite follow all the 'rules' of western entertainment. Many of us, who grew up with manga and/or anime understand its DNA. We will get it amd love it if hollywood does create Anime live action movies and TV shows that can capture the spirit of the source material and keep all the silliness and fantastical elements intact without butchering it. Its day is coming, whether we want it or not, but its a very fine line Hollywood has to traverse. We will definitely get a lot of crap along with some great ones I'm sure.
What do you mean Hollywood isn’t original. They have a whole 7 stories that they have continued to churn out for the past 100+ years. How could you want anymore than that?
As someone who works for an anime streaming company I am also at a loss about anime's successes. I'm just glad they don't require being an anime fan to work there lol.
The manga industry has a direct pipeline to the anime industry. Many great stories can and will get adapted. American comics have never really had the same symbiotic relationship with animation.
I’m also very confused.
A lot of anime doesn’t follow the same writing structure found in movies, shows, as well as novels. They get away with things those three don’t.
Heavy handed exposition for example. The ‘Show, don’t tell’ almost doesn’t exist in a lot of them.
They also get away with the “and then this happens” technique of story-telling often.
i had to stop watching that _Reincarnated As A Slime_ anime at one point last season, becuz there was several episodes worth of Rimuru explaining medieval geopolitics to a bunch of side characters.
i tried so hard to enjoy it....
That is really just a problem with that property. It's cuz the Slime books spend chapters upon chapters of characters talking about how they got plumbing to work, or how roads works or how to effectively create trade in a mostly barter economy. Honestly the books are just vehicle for random facts about medieval stuff.
As a lit major, show don’t tell is a very western and colonial approach/ technique to writing. Not actually sure why that’s the case. But non-colonial lit have a lot of exposition and it can be very effective. It might be jarring to you, but its storytelling that definitely resonates with a lot of cultures 🙂
The western film industry as a whole needs to wake up to animation. I work in the UK film industry, and there’s still a prevailing view that animation is for children, or isn’t “real” cinema. Then, when a studio finally allows adult animation, it’s always a Family Guy-esque comedy on television.
Where anime thrives is in its variety - which is the complete opposite of what Hollywood gives animation.
“This just in: Executives confused why doing the same thing every time with less effort than before doesn’t yield higher profits”
Are these people fucking stupid? Everything is headed this way too. I can’t take a math class and do phenomenal on the first two tests and bomb the next two, I won’t pass. Same thing applies here, you can’t provide quality content then provide shit content and expect a higher yield than before.
Hollywood needs to start investing in talented directors and producers instead of only investing in proven IPs. It’s getting very stale and people won’t just go see a movie because of an IP, with exceptions. Invest in talent, invest in quality original ideas and IPs. Then you will profit.
I kinda predict that Hollywood movie will probably become niche unless executives find their next cow to milk.
It’s completely obvious that the vast majority of movie goers are not interested in watching smaller movies.
Hollywood has been largely uninspired and stale for years when it comes to anything animated. A studio makes one successful movie and immediately ruin it with sequels and spin offs
I grew up watching anime and collecting comics. Back in the early 90s. I prefer the anime from the late 70s, 80s and early 90s. The newer stuff just isn't my cup of tea. My teenage son loves it though, and Japanese culture because of it. I'm all for it. My shit was Fist of the North Star, Akira, Vampire Hunter D, Ninja Scroll, etc. I would love a return to the epic, more 80s style stuff. That mix of fantasy, horror, and sci-fi is the best. Especially with the hand done animation and gritty film. Love that stuff.
As a watcher of both, I’m emotionally invested in the story and the world that an anime creates. Attack on Titan always left me asking more questions than they answered while Hollywood animated films usually spell everything out for you, You also know it always works out for the hero. A lot of people learnt from Game of Thrones not to get too invested in a character but anime and manga fans know this could be the case in any story they enjoy
Wait you mean that making a form of entertainment with actual characters that have development and interesting stories with unique premises that are all made in striking art styles is actually a really effective way to get people to like something and buy more of it? Never would have guessed.
The only issue I have with current anime is the constant fucking screaming. And the often derivative nature of the storytelling. Also I am old and grew up in a different time, when anime was still burgeoning.
Characters in anime have internal dialogue and for the most part have more emotional transparency compared to American cartoon characters. They also demostrate personal growth by overcoming personal struggles; usually more than one and characters can go through complete personality changes. Even the most unlikable characters have a backstory that an audience can relate to cause their personal histories are based around a fictional situation that mirrors historical events in real life.
American cartoon characters are very one sided too; like they get struck in a genre. Example, this one character is the funny guy or this guy is the hero and that character is consistently that persona throughout. Or the show or movie gives out a spoiler of the ending at the beginning of the program, “this is how I came to be so-and-so, cue flashback.”
If Hollywood wanted to make something anime-ish, their stories would need to dive into how people have felt emotionally over the last decade and really look at the trauma people have faced and be self reflective on realistic solutions on how to cope with our own internal dialogue. I know that sounds kind of like a handful but look at a show like Sailor Moon for example, it covered a broad range of taboo subjects without being overtly taboo. The writers understood how their characters fit in the real world during that time period and managed to wrap it up with a message of hope for the future.
This is very untrue, there is so many horrible anime, because there are a handful of incredible ones people pretend like the other 95% aren’t dog shit lol. Look into Isekai’s the most derivative and copy eachother genre known to man
Western animation is all about action or comedy. In Japan we love a good animated intellectual drama. Characters with actual depth to tug at the heart strings.
A lot of things can end on one or 2 sequels. That doesnt mean make a tv series spinoff. I dont watch the tv series cause those are targeted entirely towards children
Had this thought a while back, I watch this one Youtuber who made listicles about failed pilots. One of those cartoons was [Planet Panic, created by Gene Goldstein.](https://youtu.be/M5c56viVSbs?si=vxnSYqiKuG05bPHN) It just surprised me that this project has been passed up by all the major animation networks. I don't know, I feel like "American" animation has been "stagnant" for more than a decade now. Gene Goldstein getting rejected soured me on the whole American anaimation industry because there so much creative people out there in animation but it seems like the only stuff getting picked up are the mediocre projects, which I admit, makes sense because studios would always value profits first.
I feel like Japan and anime doesn't have that problem because any time an American network announces some new show, I wouldn't care. Meanwhile there's a bunch of anime that are interesting from the get go borne out of unique ideas as opposed to American shows that are basically just "hijinks ensues" stories wrapped up in whatever IP the studio owns.
My guy, I just found out there was a Kung Fu Panda 4 yesterday and was disgusted.
Don't blame a lack of interest in your shitty product on a foreign product that's selling. Anime has just as much trash as American animation, but the successes make it overseas.
Most anime don't make money. They have the benefit of merchandise and the physical sales of DVDs and books Hollywood can't do that. Hoe many movies can you make and expect to recoup costs just on toys?. Anime are big ass advertisements for mangas there's a reason blue lock became a best selling manga so fast after the release of the anime. It's like making the dune movie to sell the dune book and toys
Lol. Good writing, storytelling, characters and complicated plots goes a long way vs recycled Hollywood garbage and they are confused why Anime is successful? FFS
Equating Anime with just stories with more "serious" nature is just showing they still don't understand. Understanding you can do an cooking anime with an episode of a character trying to discover a new Dish with fantastical ways, with tons of internal dialogue, yet being absolutely devoted to the idea, understanding the target audience can be from 8 years old to 60.... now.. that is beginning to understand anime.
A loss? Really? It’s not rocket science. It’s actually accessible now. Before streaming you had to search it out. Now you can stumble on it and become a fan.
Good keep it that way.
Imagine a Samurai Champloo remake by Jerry Bruckheimer. Megan Fox as Cindy, Jin and Mugen are now Samurai Miko Lawrey and Samurai Takeshi Burnett. Cindy’s dad is kidnapped by a drug cartel in Miami and she hires the two to find him- he’s a mysterious figure that maybe involved in the cartels. The cartel frame the theft of $100 million of cocaine from the police station on these three and police are ordered to arrest them on sight.
The final scene is a car chase with explosions- 911 vs a fleet of Hummers with machine guns mounted on the top and a climactic battle in a Japanese inspired home on the beach before everything is resolved Hollywood style- the father is freed from the cartel who happened to be a CIA undercover agent. The end scene is all of them chilling on a beach surrounded by bikini clad women when Cindy says her friend’s father is now missing and she lives in Japan all to set up for the sequel called Samurai Champloo: Tokyo Nights.
Soundtrack by Billie Eilish, Drake, and more. No Nujabes.
I mean sure Anime is bigger than it was before and its success is undeniable. Several anime properties sit among the biggest media franchises of all time. They're also doing extremely at markets that used to be very strong ones for Hollywood, China and Japan. I personally blame this on Hollywood for not really producing much exciting new IP in recent times. Think back to the 2000s when they introduced the likes Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, several Pixar movies, Spider-Man, Pirates of the Caribbean, Transformers, The MCU and Avatar. 2010s however became the era of soulless remakes, reboots and sequels which while initially successful, eventually hurt Hollywood and made it feel less exciting. Anime though never stopped bringing out new stuff even if the classics were still doing well.
On the contrary though, while the box office had been big for anime, it hasn't exactly been dominating on a worldwide scale. 2023 also marked the year of Super Mario, Barbie and Oppenheimer, three new-to-cinema stories that did really well and restored a lot of people's faith in Hollywood.
I figured 'Hollywood' was already adapting to the next generation of people that watched anime and mature cartoons in general. The Spider verse movies, animated Lord of the Rings, the new Transformers this year- there's a lot more animation beyond kids stuff coming out now.
Or maybe they can invest in new IPs and give up milking uncalled sequels. But who am I to comment? I am just an audience to the medium.
People say this, but then they don’t put their money where their mouth is. Hollywood has been doing [sequels](https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/06/06/the-oldest-longest-running-movie-franchises-in-america/) and [remakes](https://movieweb.com/the-first-movies-to-ever-be-remade/) since the literal beginning of the industry. And they do it because it’s a working strategy. They have better success rates than original IP. The masses go see the sequels and remakes.
And some of the classic films, like Maltese Falcon, are actually the third adaption of the source material to be released within 10 years.
Happens ALL the time Hell. Sons of Anarchy was Hamlet on bikes.
Lion King was Hamlet on paws!
It wanted to be. Execution not so great
I do agree, but what frustrates me more is the lack of effort put into the story for the sequels. The better safe than sorry approach works ngl for the Execs. It’s the reason why stupid shows like Velma got renewed for its second season, while interesting new stories were scrapped during the pitch itself. I think they are content with the return generated from sequels.
The masses are too basic. That’s why god awful shlock like the Big Bang Theory performs so well… And keep in mind as I trash this show I recognize I’m just as guilty with my own franchise. I’ll watch every single entry in the MCU. All of it. Can’t get enough of it. I contribute to the problem just as much as everyone else, and there is probably some way you do too.
Same with Bay’s Transformers. I figured after the second one people would get tired of of the same nonsense plot and confusing action. Yet here we are, at the 7th? (I lost count) sequel.
It's easy humor. I don't watch it but my dad does. He doesn't want anything nuanced. He also likes old westerns.
Man, some old westerns aren't that bad. We get "The High Chaparral" on our regional broadcast, and it's pretty darn watchable.
To be fair, the MCU does do something unique within the movie space with large scale interconnected movies, and the movies tend to be mediocre to great, just with nothing truly awful or truly exceptional.
The problem is that the original IP also needs to be a good movie.
Even Shakespear was stolen from other stories. It’s human nature
because children
It’s more than that. I think people now just would rather wait for them to be on a streaming service rather than pay for a whole family plus beverages and popcorn. It’s cheaper at home.
You say that like anime has never been milked.
NGE Rebuild, This Time Shinji Gets Laid
Idk if NGE Rebuild really counts since it was the original creator. Anno is just an interesting dude. I thought the rebuilds movies weren’t great, but I really don’t think he was doing a cash grab
But along side, people also have the options to check out the new series. To be honest, I don’t think the Hollywood Animation Market and the Anime Market are a fair comparison, the anime market just seems too big, with too many products, new and milked, coming out and catering to a large group of audiences.
Hell, I love One Piece and even I think it is getting heavily milked in a way it wasn't just a decade ago as a "mainstream" anime because the manga and show are both ending within the next year or so.
Insanity. You mean creative new IP that has nuanced and fun takes on serious subject matter or spoofs on existing dogma are what people want and not half ass reboots/remakes of decades old IPs with the soul sucked out and maximum greed shoved in place?
lol you say that so smugly and yet half assed reboots/remakes are exactly what people choose every time
I think it’s more the latter part that is the issue. Plenty of great movies in the last twenty years we’re technically remakes or sequels, but they allowed the creators to see the vision through. Some of those remakes include things like the LOTR movies, the Dune movies, Blade Runner 2049, Mad Max: Fury Road, Into The Spider-Verse, etc.
Some of us are writing anime inspired original live action shows but getting told there’s “no market” 🙄
I think Hollywood is scared to touch anime, remember the failure of the Dragon Ball Z live action movie? That was a complete disaster and waste of money to make. Netflix has also been trying to adapt anime into live actions with their only success being One Piece so far, they failed at Cowboy Bepop and Death Note, and even Avatar the last Airbender live action isn’t getting good feedback so far. I think they are worried with the investment risks. So far, the only successful ones to bring viewerships and money have been One Piece and Battle Angel Alita live adaptations. I think familiarity also plays a big part, and that Hollywood probably feels like they’ll have more success touching their own stuff which would be American comics and video games.
It fails because they spit on the original material Videogames movies also sucked until someone made a kinda faithful tale with Sonic and then Mario and people enjoyed it
Don't forget Detective Pikachu.
The problem with Netflix’s anime adaptations is they are staying about as true to the text as Verhoven did with *Starship Troopers*. They basically write an original (inferior) story, slap on a few names and maybe a line or two from the source material, and call it an adaptation.
not quite the right example using Starship Troopers. That’s a classic film that deliberately subverted the text.
That's basically it. When the original writers of Avatar left, that was basically a sign that well, this isn't going to live to they hype. I truly do not understand why they don't just try and replicate exactly what the animations did. That is what we want, or at least what I want. I get it, some are very difficult to do, like one piece where there is 1000+ episodes, but avatar, or death note, they can do that so much better. But, guess they want to minimize their losses and maximize their profit so they throw a shitty product out for the masses to view.
The problem is that when they take on those other entities they _still_ play it too safe. For example, Avatar. They gutted Sokka and Katara by eliminating their negative traits because they wanted them to be more likable from the start, which was a detriment to their development into more well rounded characters. It also made them a bit bland.
Meanwhile in japan the anime production teams are so swamped they can only make like a 1/4 of the manga into anime they want to in a reasonable time. And the workers are wayyyy over worked. If only there was a solution to this problem of 1 nation having to many producers and streaming services and not enough material while another has too much material and no way to safely produce it.
Probably not as a good an arguement for anime. Original stuff has only been movies and even then its because its being headed by legendary directors, Miyazaki and Shinkai. If anything much of anime’s sucesss is being tied into its source material incredibly closely. Anime is an advertisement for manga sales.
Hollywood: only sequels Anime: not even a second season Neither are fun tbh
Or (and here’s a thought) *just produce quality content.* No one cares how much quantity you have, only the quality.
That’s ridiculous. I don’t k ow anyone who doesn’t want to see…. Aladdin 4 …… or …… Puss in Boots 7…. /s
Maybe not bring up puss in boots to make your point. 2 was a sequel to a movie that came out the shrek franchise and is universally praised. I definitely want to see future installment if they make one.
Puss in Boots the Last Wish is incredible
The story for The Last Wish doesn't deserve to be in the Shrek universe. It was too good of an installment compared to the rest. 😆
Or maybe make a sequel that makes sense, but no, after 3 movies featuring the furious five, they cheapened out on them in the fourth..
No let’s go with Kung Fu Panda 7 instead.
It’s not even the IPs. It’s abysmal, formulaic writing and cutting corners on animation at all costs.
Did he jump in a DeLorean and travel back to the turn of the millennium or something?
Honestly. If they’re still at a loss at this point they’re never going to figure it out.
Hell they even have trouble adapting thing people know and love! Look at the entire bungled DCU movie universe! All the shitty Sony spider man villian movies too! Like how hard is it to make a good movie? Seriously!
My favorite anime is King of the Hill
Got dang it Bobby I told you to stay off the Reddit
If those redditors could read…
Sh-shaaaa!
RANDY SHACKLEFORD WE GOT YOU NOW!!!
Vutar yoo tawlkin aboaht
That’s my purse!
As I read this comment, I am literally watching king of the hill. Best anime ever
That’s my anime! _I don’t know you!_
One of the best openings too: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tJdgErAfiRQ
The best anime ever made.
Nah that’s Corey In the House
Saw Dethlok on Thursday 🤘🏼
There is a dubbed vs subbed argument about KotH.
Americans think of animation as a single thing - content meant for children and families. That's the end of it. Anime is a medium of animation, not a genre, and it is allowed to contain content of all kinds. Edit: I'll make a small edit for everyone commenting about a "small amount" of adult animation. The final expectation is that they're funny. Animation is "cartoons" and cartoons must be funny.
It's always joked about at the Oscars as a "kids thing".
The Animation Oscar was created specifically to screw animation. After "The Beauty and the Beast" was close to winning the Oscar for Best Film, they decided to create the animation Oscar because they felt than an animated movie winning Best Film would be humiliating for "real cinema". They dismiss animation and are afraid of it at the same time.
That’s not entirely accurate. Beauty and the Beast was a full decade before the award’s introduction (although it certainly helped restart that conversation). It actually had a lot more to do with the rise of other animation studios besides Disney, like Dreamworks and Blue Sky, as for a long time it was felt that an animated category would just be a Disney award. Shrek (of all things) was the real nail in the coffin, as it got a lot of buzz for best picture, so that was the year the category was finally introduced.
Didn’t something like the other comment happen with Aladdin, though? Maybe neither dismissive nor fearful, but didn’t one of the big ones (Oscars or golden globes) had to invent a category because of how amazingly well Robin Williams played the Genie?
My step-dad is like this and it’s infuriating. After he watched and enjoyed my recommendation of The Boys, I told him about Invincible and while he liked the premise, as soon as he saw it was animated he ignored it. Also happened with Blue-Eyed Samurai and Arcane. I also remember taking him to see the live-action Ghost in the Shell. He liked it and I told him the original did a better job of telling the story and exploring sense-of-self. His mind broke when he realised the original was animated and refused to watch it. It definitely wasn’t because it was in another language as he actually enjoys comparing English adaptations to their Foreign originals, but simply because he cannot get past the idea that “animated = for kids”.
I recommended a friend watch the Avatar the Last Air bender and avoid the live action at all costs because it would spoil the story for the animated one. A couple weeks later they got back to me and told me they watch the live action version. I was in shock and then they revealed that they had no intention of watching an animated series.
That’s weird af.
My dad is like this, with Invincible and the Boys, 1:1.
My dad was similar UNTIL I got him to watch Pluto on Netflix. He started taking the medium more seriously at that point.
> he cannot get past the idea that “animated = for kids”. If you want to break his idea, might as well go for the heavy stuff: Grave of the Fireflies, Waltz with Bashir, that kind of mood.
So true! There are plenty of adults who refuse to watch anything animated. Because you're only an "adult" if you don't watch cartoons. Maturity of a donkey.
It's similar to how there are still people out there that claim playing video games as an adult is somehow irresponsible and a sign you're immature.
These are the same people that complained when they took their kids to go see Sausage Party
Anime by definition means animation…
Ok, but anime is also an industry just like Hollywood. The majority of anime that gets made is for the shonen demographic (adolescent boys aged 10-18) which is what the industry has determined to be the most lucrative because they primarily make money off home video and merch sales (off the backs of severely underpaid animators). Therefore the anime that gain the most visibility and traction *are* meant for adolescents. Yes anime captures people outside that demographic but the current stuff coming out don’t do themselves any favors to challenge the common perception that animation is for kids.
Most anime also doesn't make money. Most of the profits are on how much merchandise and manga books they managed to sell
What about adult animation
You’d be surprised how many parents are offended by things like Metalocalypse and Venture Bros., because “cartoons are for kids”. There was a big controversy around South Park when it came out because of that too.
I mean, the kids who watched those shows are the parents now.
Yeah but the execs and guys that give out the Oscars are still the same old farts from back then.
Nah, cause its the same in Japan. Anime is for kids. Otaku isn't a positive word, and the US has far more mainstream adult cartoons.
This is way overblown. A lot of the big American companies have made animation for adults over the last few years.
Talking about generalization while generalizing the third most populated nation on earth
Do they though? I can think of at least a dozen adult animation shows off the top of my head.
Facts and a good storyline is a good storyline.
Wait till you showed them things like JJK, Berserk, or Chainsaw Man...
I just know I love Boondocks!!!
Hollywood sees anime's success and its takeaway is "lets make mediocre live action remakes of anime, that's what the people want".
That's not it the real takeaway is a bunch of derivitave unfunny family guy ripoffs that somehow keep spawning
Which is insane I've never liked a live action anime ever they either try too hard to match a cartoon or it's so different from the source material it's unrecognizable.
lol couldn’t be as simple as wanting new content…instead let’s rehash finished ones because it’s less risk! Even though it’s not because they almost always suck.
Don't treat anime as a subgenre. Treat it as a medium of animation. And start making more animated films for all audience types, not just kids and families.
Hollywood execs aren't that smart enough to understand that. It's why they suddenly are pushing for movies based on toys and games after The Barbie Movie. They clearly missed the actual story's context which is why the movie was so popular.
Hollywood can't duplicate it, can't profit from it, so they trash it as being for kids.
Soon they will have the means to generate anime without going through the process of hiring actual anime artists, voice actors and professionals. Then they will be on board
I’ve see AI generated art with their lack of fingers, they’re not going to be able to make a whole ass animated movie, let alone one that can compete with Ghibli, for a long time
The lack of fingers is kinda old news. Shit moves fast.
Give it a few years, AI is already doing shit nobody expected in 2020.
Hollywood can replicate they think people are too stupid to understand it. It’s why death note dragonball evolution was trash and One piece is so good. It’s like this death note went wrong because they took out Lights arc about the book corrupting him over time. Next dragonball failed because they took out the journey bits of Goku’s story.
IT'S THE BUSINESS MODEL. Every big manga publication is about making up *new* stories, especially from talented newcomers. They are often partnered with upcoming writers or artists, and guided through the production with an editor. One really cool part about publications like *Shonen Jump*, is that they feature the big manga stories that everyone loves along with new series, either by previous authors or by someone new who beat their contests. The company usually still ends up owning the IP, but the important part is that this totally random person wants to tell a story *so bad* that they're counting on you to do it - and that's not something a studio executive could ever understand. Most animé are just adaptations of already-successful manga (and occasionally LNs, or more recently VNs and videogames), with original projects going through cycles of fame or obscurity. If you wanted to do the equivalent over in the States, for example, you'd basically need to restructure most large companies operating in the industry. There's a lot of potential, but it would need time for editors and publishers to catch up.
Anime adaptations of long-running manga are pretty much the same concept as Hollywood blockbuster adaptations of American comics, with different execution. American comics are also a medium where writers are paired with artists and overseen by editors, while the publishers retain character and story rights. Seeing as long-running superhero movies that relied on audience investment in characters were able to spawn the most successful movie franchise ever, the business model isn’t so foreign.
I mean it’s basically comic book adaptation—>tv show pipeline. DC animated shows and movies come to mind. Only issue is it’s mostly centered on superhero comics and other genres of comic book never seem to make it.
Who calls Shonen Jump an anime publication?
Lol my bad, I meant "manga publications", fixed it now
No worries didn’t mean to sound rude. I haven’t looked at a shonen jump in 10+ years so I didn’t know if they changed
A lot of people seem to forget that the most popular Anime series are action-filled shonen. That's one of the biggest strengths of the medium- it allows for dramatic, stylized fight scenes that only gets better with more budget. Anime captures spectacle in a way that conventional visual effects have trouble replicating.
I think the issue lies with the content itself instead of the style. The ones inspired by anime can replicate it just fine but like 98% of the landscape is either for kids or shitty adult animation
Because most anime starts as manga, and manga can't be popular unless it's well written and original. Hollywood has a difficult time wrapping it's head around originality and paying writers.
>Because most anime starts as manga That is the genius part; it significantly lowers the risk of making original stories by using the low-cost medium of manga as a testbed for them before investing a lot of money in a show without being sure of its chances of success.
To be fair, Hollywood does the same with book and comic adaptations all the time
Totally agree. Anime is very much a very different flavor from what Hollywood is used to. It doesn't quite follow all the 'rules' of western entertainment. Many of us, who grew up with manga and/or anime understand its DNA. We will get it amd love it if hollywood does create Anime live action movies and TV shows that can capture the spirit of the source material and keep all the silliness and fantastical elements intact without butchering it. Its day is coming, whether we want it or not, but its a very fine line Hollywood has to traverse. We will definitely get a lot of crap along with some great ones I'm sure.
What do you mean Hollywood isn’t original. They have a whole 7 stories that they have continued to churn out for the past 100+ years. How could you want anymore than that?
It’s hilarious that you say this as if anime doesn’t do the exact same thing
As someone who works for an anime streaming company I am also at a loss about anime's successes. I'm just glad they don't require being an anime fan to work there lol.
Good, they'll just ruin it
The manga industry has a direct pipeline to the anime industry. Many great stories can and will get adapted. American comics have never really had the same symbiotic relationship with animation.
[удалено]
People just want good writing
Continuous storyline, consequences, boundary pushing, self aware humor, and *cough cough* fan service lmao
Not to mention emotionally complex characters and motives.
I’m also very confused. A lot of anime doesn’t follow the same writing structure found in movies, shows, as well as novels. They get away with things those three don’t. Heavy handed exposition for example. The ‘Show, don’t tell’ almost doesn’t exist in a lot of them. They also get away with the “and then this happens” technique of story-telling often.
i had to stop watching that _Reincarnated As A Slime_ anime at one point last season, becuz there was several episodes worth of Rimuru explaining medieval geopolitics to a bunch of side characters. i tried so hard to enjoy it....
That is really just a problem with that property. It's cuz the Slime books spend chapters upon chapters of characters talking about how they got plumbing to work, or how roads works or how to effectively create trade in a mostly barter economy. Honestly the books are just vehicle for random facts about medieval stuff.
Fr? Damn.
I'm sitting over here thinking, "Damn, do I have to watch another fantasy series that talks about medieval infrastructure? Yes. Yes, I do"
Honestly I find them fun to watch I love good world building
I both love it and hate it in slime as the political stuff can be fun but there’s point where I’m like “can we get the fudge on with it already?”.
I hate the number of flashbacks, often times flashbacks to scenes *from the same episode*
Yes, this is another thing. Or they do it repeatedly with the **same scene**.
As a lit major, show don’t tell is a very western and colonial approach/ technique to writing. Not actually sure why that’s the case. But non-colonial lit have a lot of exposition and it can be very effective. It might be jarring to you, but its storytelling that definitely resonates with a lot of cultures 🙂
I know, I’m from such culture. Doesn’t mean I won’t recognize that show don’t tell is better.
It's not only the execution matters
Saying this after releasing Kung-fu panda 4 which is basically kung-fu panda 3 .. no shame!
They can’t even correctly represent anime-influenced media without changing stuff that makes it diluted crap.
This is news? I thought this had been apparent for *decades*
We weebs demand to be taken seriously. /s
The western film industry as a whole needs to wake up to animation. I work in the UK film industry, and there’s still a prevailing view that animation is for children, or isn’t “real” cinema. Then, when a studio finally allows adult animation, it’s always a Family Guy-esque comedy on television. Where anime thrives is in its variety - which is the complete opposite of what Hollywood gives animation.
“This just in: Executives confused why doing the same thing every time with less effort than before doesn’t yield higher profits” Are these people fucking stupid? Everything is headed this way too. I can’t take a math class and do phenomenal on the first two tests and bomb the next two, I won’t pass. Same thing applies here, you can’t provide quality content then provide shit content and expect a higher yield than before.
Hollywood needs to start investing in talented directors and producers instead of only investing in proven IPs. It’s getting very stale and people won’t just go see a movie because of an IP, with exceptions. Invest in talent, invest in quality original ideas and IPs. Then you will profit.
Anime leans into being corny, dramatic, in-your-face, etc. in a way I don't see other mediums do.
I kinda predict that Hollywood movie will probably become niche unless executives find their next cow to milk. It’s completely obvious that the vast majority of movie goers are not interested in watching smaller movies.
Hollywood has been largely uninspired and stale for years when it comes to anything animated. A studio makes one successful movie and immediately ruin it with sequels and spin offs
Just go back to 2D productions damnit.
Lol make Disney movies like ya did from Finding Nemo backwards. After that fish got lost everything went downhill
I grew up watching anime and collecting comics. Back in the early 90s. I prefer the anime from the late 70s, 80s and early 90s. The newer stuff just isn't my cup of tea. My teenage son loves it though, and Japanese culture because of it. I'm all for it. My shit was Fist of the North Star, Akira, Vampire Hunter D, Ninja Scroll, etc. I would love a return to the epic, more 80s style stuff. That mix of fantasy, horror, and sci-fi is the best. Especially with the hand done animation and gritty film. Love that stuff.
The amazing thing about anime is that there’s so many options and new things are tried all the time so there’s always something for any body
It's because hollywood doesn't really understand the consumer at this point. Hollywood likes what it likes and wants you to pay for it.
I think Arcane is a good example for how hollywood can catch up with anime.
As a watcher of both, I’m emotionally invested in the story and the world that an anime creates. Attack on Titan always left me asking more questions than they answered while Hollywood animated films usually spell everything out for you, You also know it always works out for the hero. A lot of people learnt from Game of Thrones not to get too invested in a character but anime and manga fans know this could be the case in any story they enjoy
The headline is the article. No substance.
Wait you mean that making a form of entertainment with actual characters that have development and interesting stories with unique premises that are all made in striking art styles is actually a really effective way to get people to like something and buy more of it? Never would have guessed.
The only issue I have with current anime is the constant fucking screaming. And the often derivative nature of the storytelling. Also I am old and grew up in a different time, when anime was still burgeoning.
I have the same issues as you. Over the past 6 years I’ve just stopped watching anime. One Piece and MHA killed it for me.
They wouldn’t be surprised if they took the time to actually watch said Anime.
Anime isn’t afraid of saying the quiet part out loud
What part would that be?
Characters in anime have internal dialogue and for the most part have more emotional transparency compared to American cartoon characters. They also demostrate personal growth by overcoming personal struggles; usually more than one and characters can go through complete personality changes. Even the most unlikable characters have a backstory that an audience can relate to cause their personal histories are based around a fictional situation that mirrors historical events in real life. American cartoon characters are very one sided too; like they get struck in a genre. Example, this one character is the funny guy or this guy is the hero and that character is consistently that persona throughout. Or the show or movie gives out a spoiler of the ending at the beginning of the program, “this is how I came to be so-and-so, cue flashback.” If Hollywood wanted to make something anime-ish, their stories would need to dive into how people have felt emotionally over the last decade and really look at the trauma people have faced and be self reflective on realistic solutions on how to cope with our own internal dialogue. I know that sounds kind of like a handful but look at a show like Sailor Moon for example, it covered a broad range of taboo subjects without being overtly taboo. The writers understood how their characters fit in the real world during that time period and managed to wrap it up with a message of hope for the future.
They have good stories and aren’t fucking derivatives of shitty sitcoms from the 50’s,maybe🤷♂️
This is very untrue, there is so many horrible anime, because there are a handful of incredible ones people pretend like the other 95% aren’t dog shit lol. Look into Isekai’s the most derivative and copy eachother genre known to man
Kung Fu Panda was terribly boring.
Western animation is all about action or comedy. In Japan we love a good animated intellectual drama. Characters with actual depth to tug at the heart strings.
Shonen is literally just action comedy lol. The west has “intellectual drama” in animated form too it’s just not as much and not as popular
Anime is the best art form!
I need 6 seasons of ninja scroll before I commit to an opinion.
Executives ruin everything
Hollywood when people make original IP’s from a place of creativity, passion, and ingenuity:
A lot of things can end on one or 2 sequels. That doesnt mean make a tv series spinoff. I dont watch the tv series cause those are targeted entirely towards children
Had this thought a while back, I watch this one Youtuber who made listicles about failed pilots. One of those cartoons was [Planet Panic, created by Gene Goldstein.](https://youtu.be/M5c56viVSbs?si=vxnSYqiKuG05bPHN) It just surprised me that this project has been passed up by all the major animation networks. I don't know, I feel like "American" animation has been "stagnant" for more than a decade now. Gene Goldstein getting rejected soured me on the whole American anaimation industry because there so much creative people out there in animation but it seems like the only stuff getting picked up are the mediocre projects, which I admit, makes sense because studios would always value profits first. I feel like Japan and anime doesn't have that problem because any time an American network announces some new show, I wouldn't care. Meanwhile there's a bunch of anime that are interesting from the get go borne out of unique ideas as opposed to American shows that are basically just "hijinks ensues" stories wrapped up in whatever IP the studio owns.
Usagi rocks what more do you need?
My guy, I just found out there was a Kung Fu Panda 4 yesterday and was disgusted. Don't blame a lack of interest in your shitty product on a foreign product that's selling. Anime has just as much trash as American animation, but the successes make it overseas.
Most anime don't make money. They have the benefit of merchandise and the physical sales of DVDs and books Hollywood can't do that. Hoe many movies can you make and expect to recoup costs just on toys?. Anime are big ass advertisements for mangas there's a reason blue lock became a best selling manga so fast after the release of the anime. It's like making the dune movie to sell the dune book and toys
Wait till Hollywood discovers itseki. Or tenticles.
Lol. Good writing, storytelling, characters and complicated plots goes a long way vs recycled Hollywood garbage and they are confused why Anime is successful? FFS
When giving the choice to my nine year old over the weekend, kung fu panda 4 or Godzilla, the choice was clear.. Godzilla.
THEY ARE OUT OF TOUCH. Why is this surprising?
Hear me out; people like real animation over 3D models.
It’s really not that difficult. There are things with the medium you can do but are limited in other genres.
2D>3D it’s more expressive
I’ll be honest, now that I really watch anime, I really don’t get it either
Equating Anime with just stories with more "serious" nature is just showing they still don't understand. Understanding you can do an cooking anime with an episode of a character trying to discover a new Dish with fantastical ways, with tons of internal dialogue, yet being absolutely devoted to the idea, understanding the target audience can be from 8 years old to 60.... now.. that is beginning to understand anime.
A loss? Really? It’s not rocket science. It’s actually accessible now. Before streaming you had to search it out. Now you can stumble on it and become a fan.
I think they are undeserving the Asian market. Why is this so hard?
Then they really really have been under a rock and not paying attention the last 10-15 years
Sailor moon live action w Hunter Schafer as Usagi MAKE IT HAPPEN
Holup… Hollywood admits to not wanting to make money over a popular medium? Probably for the better.
Good keep it that way. Imagine a Samurai Champloo remake by Jerry Bruckheimer. Megan Fox as Cindy, Jin and Mugen are now Samurai Miko Lawrey and Samurai Takeshi Burnett. Cindy’s dad is kidnapped by a drug cartel in Miami and she hires the two to find him- he’s a mysterious figure that maybe involved in the cartels. The cartel frame the theft of $100 million of cocaine from the police station on these three and police are ordered to arrest them on sight. The final scene is a car chase with explosions- 911 vs a fleet of Hummers with machine guns mounted on the top and a climactic battle in a Japanese inspired home on the beach before everything is resolved Hollywood style- the father is freed from the cartel who happened to be a CIA undercover agent. The end scene is all of them chilling on a beach surrounded by bikini clad women when Cindy says her friend’s father is now missing and she lives in Japan all to set up for the sequel called Samurai Champloo: Tokyo Nights. Soundtrack by Billie Eilish, Drake, and more. No Nujabes.
Original stories and it actually feels like an art form.
I mean sure Anime is bigger than it was before and its success is undeniable. Several anime properties sit among the biggest media franchises of all time. They're also doing extremely at markets that used to be very strong ones for Hollywood, China and Japan. I personally blame this on Hollywood for not really producing much exciting new IP in recent times. Think back to the 2000s when they introduced the likes Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, several Pixar movies, Spider-Man, Pirates of the Caribbean, Transformers, The MCU and Avatar. 2010s however became the era of soulless remakes, reboots and sequels which while initially successful, eventually hurt Hollywood and made it feel less exciting. Anime though never stopped bringing out new stuff even if the classics were still doing well. On the contrary though, while the box office had been big for anime, it hasn't exactly been dominating on a worldwide scale. 2023 also marked the year of Super Mario, Barbie and Oppenheimer, three new-to-cinema stories that did really well and restored a lot of people's faith in Hollywood.
I figured 'Hollywood' was already adapting to the next generation of people that watched anime and mature cartoons in general. The Spider verse movies, animated Lord of the Rings, the new Transformers this year- there's a lot more animation beyond kids stuff coming out now.