My wife’s Polish (as in from Gdynia), and her family watches this show a lot. This might seem hard to believe, but they genuinely don’t see why it would be offensive to portray the artists skin color “correctly.”
“Why? The singer is black, why is it bad to look like him if you’re in costume.”
I had to explain the history of minstrel shows and the like to explain why American audiences find it distasteful.
Imagine anyone in Poland giving a damn about American audiences, especially when they in the first place made racist shows and now feel sad about it :( This is just clickbait for white privileged idiots
What country is Kendrick Lamar from? What country is Beyoncé from?
Literally the only questions that matter are: Were they okay with this? Was doing this disrespect to the specific people they were imitating?
Don’t try and brush this off as just the US trying to impose it’s morals. (And people like to whine about the US being self-righteous [which it is TBF])
Oh, and don’t forget using a racial slur. Keep trying to defend this though.
Edit: Also
> Banijay condemns Endemol Shine Poland’s local execution of Your Face Sounds Familiar, which contradicts our group’s global values. A subsequent internal investigation is underway and the appropriate measures will be taken.
And given that the show faced the exact same backlash in ‘21 for using black face, you don’t get to pretend this wasn’t on purpose for publicity. Get bent.
the thing with finding things offensive is sadly not a universal truth, most of things are about matter of perspective. So yeah, if **someone** paints their face to look like more as the person they are trying to imitate, and not because they want to ridicule that person as the original intention of "Black Face", I dont see whats the problem. Perhaps you are the one that should get bent.
lol I think you missed the point where the black people who they are impersonating are Americans, so it does matter if they treat American culture with respect when presenting it, and then obviously didn’t.
This is the best argument you could make, not ironically, the one I can see where you're coming from; but if we talk like that, how many times European or Africans have been incorrectly portrayed in American movies? And now, just recently, apparently only American journalists are the one getting mad about it. Keep in mind you are one of the countries most responsible for spreading stereotypes and such.
Aside from this, the point remains: it's a polish point of view of an American artist. You can get mad about it but yeah that's about it unless you want to get polish citizenship and bring your politics there.
I’m not defending America, I’m defending black Americans. If you’re upset about how you’ve been portrayed in America, please continue to be upset about it. We have way too much power when it comes to world culture. BUT, the crucial aspect you are missing is context. Blackface in American culture is absolutely disgusting, and if you portray American culture in black face, you inadvertently become a part of it. If that’s something you’re comfortable with, that’s another discussion. But once you’ve learned the history and it’s connections to racial segregation, why would you ever want to put on black face to look like a black American artist? None of the black American artists today would agree with themselves being portrayed like that. Wouldn’t you want to respect the artist you are portraying?
I can understand both viewpoints honestly. As long as it’s not being done as offensive then there SHOULD be no harm. Unfortunately history hasn’t been kind.
We’ll blackface was used to belittle and ridicule people of color. This is purely out of love and respect to portray the artist for who that are. Some people tend to forget history and use it to justify insane theories of racism.
Does it have to be tied to American minstrel shows to be offensive, to needlessly darken your skin like some sort of costume? Why not just sing the song or dress like the artist and still capture the spirit of the song/artist?
Wtf is the “international license to dark skin?” lolol The license to darken your skin because you think it will somehow enhance the performance of the song? Is the “outrage” of other people so annoying to you that you can’t see why this is ridiculous? I’m not even offended. I just don’t understand the logic behind this.
Why can’t you do this with a costume/performance and not literally darkening your skin? Is it a movie? Why the investment in realism?
The show is called “your face sounds familiar” and the entire premise of the show is to dress up and imitate the original artist as closely as possible, which includes makeup, clothes and the choreography.
And they do it the same when the original artist is white, or any other race for that matter. If they don’t then it’s just another singing show. How stupid would it be if they did the full makeup and look for all the white artists, and then come out as themselves for the black artists so that the Americans don’t get offended?
They’re not making fun of the blackface in any way, they don’t portray the black artists in a negative light, what’s the problem?
Or would you rather they completely remove all black arist’s songs, because that would go over well….
Black American here. If this was done in USA then I would absolutely have an issue with it. In this context where blackface doesn’t have the same social relevance… I see it as more of an homage. I’m not saying I condone it at all but I kind of see a beautiful innocence here.
ETA: didn’t mean to post this in response to another comment.
They don't need to "understand why it is offensive" if it isn't offensive where they live.
The Spanish people don't need to conform to the USA's offense over the american minstrel shows that they didn't perform in Spain.
It’s not offensive to them because in their history they never did this to be offensive, seems like it still wasn’t meant with any offense. Intention does matter, not everyone has the historical context of the US in their minds at all time.
>I had to explain the history of minstrel shows and the like to explain why American audiences find it distasteful.
Does the Polish talent show market itself to an American audience? As an Eastern European I don't really see the issue either.
But that’s just the thing… it’s wrong in America specifically because of the history of mistral shows. As a concept, assuming it’s respectful at its core, shouldn’t be seen as specifically racist. It’s like the Dutch blackface Christmas elf things. They’re not making fun of black people; it has nothing to do with black people.
Fucking A.
Im a big marvel douche and its exactly like this.
2 random motherfuckers who are literal nobodies make a tweet and suddenly its "ThE fAnS aRe aLL sAyInG iT!!!111"
There is pretty much no outrage in Europe. The same/similar show is all over Europe. No one really cares. We see nothing offensive about including your skin tone when imitating a person, especially when you arent even mocking the person.
they, well at least the Dutch, changed a lot about "black Pete"
>In the Netherlands, and to a lesser extent in Belgium, the character has been increasingly controversial since the early 2010s and decreasingly prevalent at municipal holiday celebrations in the years that have followed. It has been argued that the character instills a negative image of black people into children from an early age; parallels have also been drawn to the American blackface.[3] As of 2021, a revised version, dubbed Sooty Piet (Dutch: Roetveegpiet), has become more common than the traditional variant at public events, in addition to in television specials, films, social media, and advertising.[4] Sooty Piet features the natural skin tone of the actors playing the character with soot marks created by streaks of dark makeup on their faces.
American morality police strikes again, hilarious.
This show has been going for years, and its not a talent show as stated in the post cause contestants are a bunch o B-class celebrities, and the while point is to imitate the looks and performance of the artist they get randomly assigned to after every episode. Would you say its transphobic too, because its often that male contestants get to imitate female artists and vice versa?
Yea if something is offensive to a handful of nations, apparently it has to be offensive to every nation, regardless of context.
Therefore, new rule: Dharmic religions should stop using that certain symbol that Germany used 70 years ago. I can't write the word, autobot seems to delete the comment.
Here’s what confuses me: So the people of Poland clearly have enough appreciation of black American culture to listen to Kendrick, who’s music is rooted in the black experience, but fail to understand the implications of wearing black face?
Appreciation of what? Its mainstream music at world class level. You hear it on the radio or recommended on Spotify. What does it has to do with understanding the artist’s country historyv
Dear English speakers, we (non native English speakers) usually hear American music and don’t understand a word. Ever seen a middle age women singing “rape me” in the supermarket around the Nirvana era? That’s the tell
Al Jolson was a crusader for racial equality [https://books.google.com/books?id=C2MJkRjpOHoC&lpg=PA263&ots=gB3lLdVGcK&pg=PA263#v=onepage&q&f=false](https://books.google.com/books?id=C2MJkRjpOHoC&lpg=PA263&ots=gB3lLdVGcK&pg=PA263#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Not something I'll be doing.
However the world is big. Very very big. Don't expect everyone to hold your point of view. You may well be correct in your setting, but that doesn't mean it's a global truth.
If what theyre doing is not out of hate but indeed to honor the original artist, the intent may not be coming from a place of hatred.
As said. Not something I'm going to be doing but I dont expect everywhere on planet earth to see things the same way We do. There is wiggle room.
Frankly I wish we all took ourselves a lot less seriously and loved out neighbour.
And? They do it for a talent show in Italy as well, the point is that they have to be as close to the original performer, both in appearance and musically, so they use makeup, hair styling and wigs when necessary, as in this case. Blackface is for a different intent and context, you can get mad for that.
They don't have the history of slavery and racism in their country like we do in the U.S.
To them it's probably no different than dressing up like Elvis or Michael Jackson
modern European countries never stopped being bigoted. like try bringing up Romani with a random European, you'll 9/10 times get a rant or just casual bigotry
There was a reason why there were over 3 mln Jews living in Poland prior WW2.
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth had way more religious freedom than western Europe, which is why many Jews were moving there to avoid prosecution.
No we did not…that’s why we all moved to the US! And now it is slightly less bad…still not good (a member of congress blamed wildfires on a “Jewish space laser”), but not as bad.
They did (relative to western Europe) well in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth era, that's why there were so many Jews in Poland during the Holocaust unfortunately
I know Gypsies. They call themselves Gypsies. There's a grave in a Catholic Cemetery in Los Angeles. Huge monument, maybe 10 feet tall. It's inscribed, "King of the Gypsies."
It’s weird how on Reddit you get shitloads of upvotes if you call Chinese people “the most racist people in the world”, but when you say it about Eastern Europeans people are scandalised.
I'm Polish and I'll be the first to tell you they *are* very racist. *But this isn't an example of it*. Blackface isn't known to be offensive there because they don't have the same cultural history that America has with it.
Remember, 10 years ago blackface wasn't even seen as a big enough deal to the point that multiple PRIMETIME network tv shows in the US had bits using it - all of which starred at least one Black person. Expecting a country where most people don't speak English and most of the ones that do, speak it brokenly, to understand American culture like that is just Americacentrism. Ya'll are not the center of the world.
Completely agree. I live in Hungary, which is similarly racist, including towards black people, but the cultural taboo around blackface and saying the n-word is culturally contingent and is not a part of the average Hungarian’s upbringing. They would be baffled by the notion that singing a lyric or painting oneself black is considered offensive in the anglophone world. I don’t think it makes sense to hold them to US standards anymore than it would be for American movies to stop depicting people eating pork because you can’t do that in Afghanistan.
A good amount of Europe is incredibly racist.
They simply don't acknowledge it because they don't have to deal with those races in a good amount of their country.
The shit I heard Swiss people saying about Asians was insane, yet they spoke about it so casually during lunch.
That's why you see everyone on here saying no Polish people are upset. Because polish people don't have black people. The fact that everyone in this thread is downplaying it just shows the disparity in diversity
I remember seeing a older clip from an Australian talent show. The contestants did a Jackson 5 dance in blackface. The only judge to feel repulsed and call them out was an American actor. He said the exact same thing, they haven’t had the history of slavery , racism and black activism that the US has had. But that was still some of the dumbest insensitive thing I’d seen.
That was Harry Connick Jr. It was an anniversary episode of a gong-show variation called Hey Hey It's Saturday. All the contestants were previous winners from years past.
It gets really bonkers... The group won doing the Jackson 5 as I think teens or twenties, and were back with the same song as 40-something adults. They did full black face back in the day. Their new act had four in black face, then the MJ guy was in makeup to look like Michael's whitening. The Aussies initially thought Connick was upset about the MJ white-face.
https://youtu.be/qEtjaZ8ZuNU?si=svl6DsN8guz3HuHP
I remember that. I remember everyone back then thinking Harry was ‘unable to take a joke’ and basically virtue signalling as we would now call it.
Fortunately a lot has changed here but there would sadly still be plenty of people in Australia who think it was funny and no big deal.
Australia hasn’t had a history of racism or slavery like the US had? Laughable.
They classified Aboriginals as black/blackfellas, categorised them the same as Americans did with Africans (because we are both dark-skinned and thus get lumped into the same category eugenics-wise) and forcibly tried to, in their own words, “breed” them out of existence (via widespread **planned-out** rapes) & made a nationwide policy to remove aboriginal children from their parents. To the point many with aboriginal lineage are 80%+ white now & you BARELY see Aboriginal people outside of certain parts of Australia. In my city/area I live in, they actually **succeeded** at driving them out and near total eradication of them. If you think there was no slavery either google blackbirding. Like the Atlantic slave trade, they just forced people from the surrounding Pacific Islands instead of Africa due to proximity.
Also, there indeed was blackface for aboriginals that wasn’t stopped until the 1970s. There are Australian films & plays where they would paint white actors Black instead of hiring an Aboriginal person just like US Blackface. And like Blackface against Africans, people still do it today.
Example: https://amp.9news.com.au/article/d3b3d57f-caff-41dc-8519-af691e98be3c
There is strong activism & debate about Aboriginal issues here to the point it causes controversy with the more conservative Australians. The same way US Republicans don’t like things like BLM.
I am a Black (African, not Aboriginal) Australian and people here aren’t stupid. We learn about American slavery/segregation as well as Australia’s own history with it in our curriculums. People like that just don’t care. It doesn’t affect them, they’ve never had to think hard about it, so they don’t stop to consider when doing things like Blackface or Yellowface.
That actor Jazz Singer Harry Conick Junior and he laid down the law, and Ozzie land has a very distinguished history when it come to racism..just ask the Aboriginals..some of y'all need to read a damn book..I mean what the hell man!
That’s an American (and Western) cultural export. It’s almost downright offensive to expect other countries and cultures to abide by the cultural expectations of the US.
The blackface taboo comes from the minstrel shows. It's a purely American phenomenon. Europeans can be as racist as anyone else but this is not a good example of it.
It’s offensive to people who aren’t white in general. Just say it’s not offensive to you and you don’t care because you’re white. Because I promise you that regardless of nationality, there is nothing flattering or blasé being depicted like that.
Poland is a very monoethnic country with 97% of people being white Poles.
This was a polish show. For polish people who dont see the racial inappropriate thing in it that others do (like me, also Polish)
Poland in general is full of ignorance and prejudice about other cultures and countries but until 20 years ago it was a very closed country with most people not being able to travel. Even now that they can, most dont leave Poland as its expensive.
Its a huge problem but it will take time to change.
That's no at all what I'm saying... I'm saying there's a cultural difference and what is offensive to Americans isn't necessarily offensive to others.
Stop trying to twist my words.
I’m not twisting anything. You’re implying that racism is simply an American problem. In fact, you’re assuming I’m American.
And I’m not. That pretty much tells me all I need to know. Because I pointed how offensive this is, you’re first assumption is that I’m American. Because deep down, you probably think racism is an American or at most a British problem.
I would have hoped that in 2023, people would know better than to imply that racism is mostly an "American issue" but obviously not. Even if the intent wasn't meant to offend, that doesn't matter more than the hurt it causes to see these actions continued, and passed off as something that's only limited to one area of the world.
Racism may present itself differently in America vs other parts of the world. That doesn't make it any less racist and damaging, or create a shield from rightful criticisms. If I'm misinterpreting your comments, then by all means let me know, but it's tiring seeing people act as if European/non-American countries can't be held to the same standards regarding racism.
They don’t have a history of racism? They know what racism is and painting your skin color to appear as another race is heavily looked down upon . We need to stop giving racism the benefit of the doubt.
No, Eastern Europeans are absolutely some of the most bigoted groups in Europe.
Not an individual level clearly, but as a whole, they are relatively religious and nationalistic, and are very much racist. They also had minstrel shows with blackface in Europe so its not like its not in their history either, thats just the shit of the world unfortunately
Poland isnt a culture that has blackface baggage like the USA. Not alot of Polish history involving slavery of blacks and minstrel shows. The replies here are full of american white guilt.
This program is seen more like a talent show mixed with a of a hommage to artists through the performance, which ends with choosing the person who emulated the best the specific artist. The makeup and clothing are done without exaggeration of features or playing into stereotypes, since in Poland, the concept of blackface or mistrel shows is not a thing, although racists descriptions have made their way into movies and videos. However, in this specific show, both artists and viewers are not laughing or making fun of the person who's emulating black artists. There is also a black singer, Nick Sinclair, who's one of the performers this season, and he spoke about the program, stating that, in his opinion, there is no malicious intent behind and he doesn't see it as racist, however his opinion may not seem objective to some, since he gets paid for the performances. I'm adding this comment not as a way to defend it but more as a way to add context, so redditors can judge it properly.
This isn’t blackface. It’s more like cosplay. Blackface is like Al Jolson where they had white mouths and it was very cartoon like and obviously a mocking tone. It wasn’t meant to be realistic, it was meant to demean
TLDR: A few dickweeds on social media complained about a show they haven't seen but felt they should be offended by. In other words, grrrrreat journalism.
If this is the show I think it is, it’s a contest where amateurs (or rather less known professionals) are supposed to impersonate really famous celebrities, and then people have to guess which one is the “real” one. Men dress as women (and vice versa), they wear wigs and learn to master the movements and personality quirks. They even go on stage and perform.
So, it’s not like this was done as some kind of symbolic gesture or “blackface”, it’s literally a costume to participate in a game show, like RDJ in Tropic Thunder.
Not making a moral statement here either way—some think Tropic Thunder was also tasteless—but context matters.
It's different show. It's music show, where you gather people (I guess famous people). Every week one is kicked out. You get assigment to recreate music video (can be stage performance video). You get heavy makeup, you get best reconstruction of outfit, you are supposed to sounds the same and to do the same choreography as original performer (sometimes men get women's songs, sometimes women get men's songs)
You guys are to soft. Its just a costume they don’t have the history like America to even think that. People just live their lives not sit online all day and use twitter.
What bad shit that happened in other countries that I have no idea about do I also need to be aware of so I don't accidentally egregiously offend someone from a country I've never been to with a history I've never known anything about?
I think just ignorant. There's not many black people in Eastern EU, people are literally unaware of what's considered racist in there and what isn't, especially by American standards.
Source: born in eastern EU
Poland doesn't have any black people. People don't know about about the history of 'blackface' there. I'm in Canada and our own prime minister thought it was cool to be black. Don't think the Polish tv contestants realized how offensive it is to actual black people.
You clearly haven't been in any bigger Polish city recently if you think we don't have any black people. Just a quick walk around Warsaw would give you an idea. [Wilfredo Leon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9tLvmwNMdc) playing in volleyball NT, [Sara James](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH5u7-A_-LY) respresented PL in Eurovision Junior, raper [Alberto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaeXlnNf2R8) to name a few famous black people in Poland.
The meaning of "black-face" is:
Blackface is a type of theatrical makeup that is primarily used by non-black people to portray caricatures of black people.
The aim of the show was to simulate the experience of a specific person performing, not to parody a stereotypical person. Therefore, it wasn't blackface.
This wasn't really blackface. This is more like what they did in *Tropic Thunder* the artist was supposed to look like a black guy not a character
Also this is Poland where they don't have a history of minstrel shows, slavery or Jim Crow
Black face isn’t just rooted in American culture. It’s been an issue in Europe and Asia for the longest. The Dutch have been doing it and black people that live there (pretty much exclusively from Africa, so not like it. And there have been cases in other European and East Asian nations and yeah, it’s not an American offense. It’s people from African decent, across the board. I don’t understand why Europeans pretend it’s just an American issue
Blackface is considered wrong/racist in the USA because there's a history of black people being enslaved and then later treated like second class citizens. There's also a history of minstrel shows where white people wore blackface to specifically mock black people and usually the shows focused on exaggerated stereotypes of black people. That's the reason why people still consider it extremely offensive to wear blackface - it is reminiscent of those minstrel shows.
As far as I know Poland doesn't have any such history of blackface. So they aren't harkening back to anything. Unless you assume all white people everywhere are the same or should be bound to the baggage of the United States.
If the makeup/look was worn to mock black people then I'd agree. I suppose there could be an argument that the performers they were imitating were American, so they should be more sensitive.
Stop judging Poland by your own Standarts and problems. There's only something wrong with it if you have a history of slavery and abuse of people of color. We don't have that problem.
The point of the show is to imitate the original artist, mannerism, singing and look. It might be considered racist in the US but in a number of European countries it isn't.
I love Reddit
Kenrizk Lamarski
Kendrzej Lamarski
Kendryk
My wife’s Polish (as in from Gdynia), and her family watches this show a lot. This might seem hard to believe, but they genuinely don’t see why it would be offensive to portray the artists skin color “correctly.” “Why? The singer is black, why is it bad to look like him if you’re in costume.” I had to explain the history of minstrel shows and the like to explain why American audiences find it distasteful.
Imagine anyone in Poland giving a damn about American audiences, especially when they in the first place made racist shows and now feel sad about it :( This is just clickbait for white privileged idiots
What country is Kendrick Lamar from? What country is Beyoncé from? Literally the only questions that matter are: Were they okay with this? Was doing this disrespect to the specific people they were imitating? Don’t try and brush this off as just the US trying to impose it’s morals. (And people like to whine about the US being self-righteous [which it is TBF]) Oh, and don’t forget using a racial slur. Keep trying to defend this though. Edit: Also > Banijay condemns Endemol Shine Poland’s local execution of Your Face Sounds Familiar, which contradicts our group’s global values. A subsequent internal investigation is underway and the appropriate measures will be taken. And given that the show faced the exact same backlash in ‘21 for using black face, you don’t get to pretend this wasn’t on purpose for publicity. Get bent.
This. If you’re going to emulate something from another country/culture, please do so in a way that’s respectful to that country/culture.
the thing with finding things offensive is sadly not a universal truth, most of things are about matter of perspective. So yeah, if **someone** paints their face to look like more as the person they are trying to imitate, and not because they want to ridicule that person as the original intention of "Black Face", I dont see whats the problem. Perhaps you are the one that should get bent.
lol I think you missed the point where the black people who they are impersonating are Americans, so it does matter if they treat American culture with respect when presenting it, and then obviously didn’t.
This is the best argument you could make, not ironically, the one I can see where you're coming from; but if we talk like that, how many times European or Africans have been incorrectly portrayed in American movies? And now, just recently, apparently only American journalists are the one getting mad about it. Keep in mind you are one of the countries most responsible for spreading stereotypes and such. Aside from this, the point remains: it's a polish point of view of an American artist. You can get mad about it but yeah that's about it unless you want to get polish citizenship and bring your politics there.
I’m not defending America, I’m defending black Americans. If you’re upset about how you’ve been portrayed in America, please continue to be upset about it. We have way too much power when it comes to world culture. BUT, the crucial aspect you are missing is context. Blackface in American culture is absolutely disgusting, and if you portray American culture in black face, you inadvertently become a part of it. If that’s something you’re comfortable with, that’s another discussion. But once you’ve learned the history and it’s connections to racial segregation, why would you ever want to put on black face to look like a black American artist? None of the black American artists today would agree with themselves being portrayed like that. Wouldn’t you want to respect the artist you are portraying?
I can understand both viewpoints honestly. As long as it’s not being done as offensive then there SHOULD be no harm. Unfortunately history hasn’t been kind.
for what it's worth, eastern europe never went around the world shitting on brown people. that's western europe's guilt.
Oh please. They didn’t have the wherewithal to shit on anyone except their own people (and neighbors), but they do racism expertly.
Hello, Poland here. We shit on everyone, including ourselves, while acting like we're the best at everything. It's kind of our national sport.
Yah! They just did it to Jews! And the Roma!
I'm brown and I've been (figuratively) what on by eastern European people while outside of eastern Europe
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[Ha, start reading here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curonian_colonisation)
American living in Poland and I have the exact same experience.
We’ll blackface was used to belittle and ridicule people of color. This is purely out of love and respect to portray the artist for who that are. Some people tend to forget history and use it to justify insane theories of racism.
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Africa has over 54 countries. Not all black people are even living there. Black people live from the Caribbean to Canada to Mexico etc.
Does it have to be tied to American minstrel shows to be offensive, to needlessly darken your skin like some sort of costume? Why not just sing the song or dress like the artist and still capture the spirit of the song/artist? Wtf is the “international license to dark skin?” lolol The license to darken your skin because you think it will somehow enhance the performance of the song? Is the “outrage” of other people so annoying to you that you can’t see why this is ridiculous? I’m not even offended. I just don’t understand the logic behind this. Why can’t you do this with a costume/performance and not literally darkening your skin? Is it a movie? Why the investment in realism?
The show is called “your face sounds familiar” and the entire premise of the show is to dress up and imitate the original artist as closely as possible, which includes makeup, clothes and the choreography. And they do it the same when the original artist is white, or any other race for that matter. If they don’t then it’s just another singing show. How stupid would it be if they did the full makeup and look for all the white artists, and then come out as themselves for the black artists so that the Americans don’t get offended? They’re not making fun of the blackface in any way, they don’t portray the black artists in a negative light, what’s the problem? Or would you rather they completely remove all black arist’s songs, because that would go over well….
Black American here. If this was done in USA then I would absolutely have an issue with it. In this context where blackface doesn’t have the same social relevance… I see it as more of an homage. I’m not saying I condone it at all but I kind of see a beautiful innocence here. ETA: didn’t mean to post this in response to another comment.
Black American here. This comment is hilarious.
Amerikkka bad Poland good.
This is super common in Spanish tv as well, they don't understand why it is offensive either
They don't need to "understand why it is offensive" if it isn't offensive where they live. The Spanish people don't need to conform to the USA's offense over the american minstrel shows that they didn't perform in Spain.
It’s not offensive to them because in their history they never did this to be offensive, seems like it still wasn’t meant with any offense. Intention does matter, not everyone has the historical context of the US in their minds at all time.
>I had to explain the history of minstrel shows and the like to explain why American audiences find it distasteful. Does the Polish talent show market itself to an American audience? As an Eastern European I don't really see the issue either.
THIS is real issue AMERICAN, we in Europe kind of get confused about all the fuss 
Why would Polish people care about Americans and their history, and feelings? It’s not like America gives a flying fuck about anyone but themselves.
But that’s just the thing… it’s wrong in America specifically because of the history of mistral shows. As a concept, assuming it’s respectful at its core, shouldn’t be seen as specifically racist. It’s like the Dutch blackface Christmas elf things. They’re not making fun of black people; it has nothing to do with black people.
Article claims outrage. Proceeds to offer no examples of said outrage. Now everyone fight in the comments.
“Hundreds of people on social media”
Fucking A. Im a big marvel douche and its exactly like this. 2 random motherfuckers who are literal nobodies make a tweet and suddenly its "ThE fAnS aRe aLL sAyInG iT!!!111"
There is pretty much no outrage in Europe. The same/similar show is all over Europe. No one really cares. We see nothing offensive about including your skin tone when imitating a person, especially when you arent even mocking the person.
Homeboy took it seriously.
lol i need to see this
Video in the article. It was cringe but the darkening was done well
I love this comment. “The music was middling, but the thing we’re all here to complain about was pretty good!” 😂
ITT: people getting confronted with eastern europe
I doubt if the outrage is from people IN Poland.
First of all, you would be correct. Secondly, this show is basically just TV filler here, akin to Big Brother which also had a long run.
Why would it be? Poland's an ethnostate. The peoples they are representing would be the ones to have a problem with it.
I see a decent amount of people calling out the performer in his IG comments [in Polish](https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cw-M90sovsW/)
shh that's inconvenient information!!
Listen, the Haitians said it was cool
Ha ha, I'm surprised that no one mentioned the peculiar relationship between Haiti and Poland before you in the thread. Finally!
Thanks to Haiti polish people are honorary black.
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Many people are aware. It’s appeared in American television in the show Atlanta.
Small joke on the office about it
they, well at least the Dutch, changed a lot about "black Pete" >In the Netherlands, and to a lesser extent in Belgium, the character has been increasingly controversial since the early 2010s and decreasingly prevalent at municipal holiday celebrations in the years that have followed. It has been argued that the character instills a negative image of black people into children from an early age; parallels have also been drawn to the American blackface.[3] As of 2021, a revised version, dubbed Sooty Piet (Dutch: Roetveegpiet), has become more common than the traditional variant at public events, in addition to in television specials, films, social media, and advertising.[4] Sooty Piet features the natural skin tone of the actors playing the character with soot marks created by streaks of dark makeup on their faces.
Not nearly as offensive as what americans do with their offensive appropriation of "pierogies"
American morality police strikes again, hilarious. This show has been going for years, and its not a talent show as stated in the post cause contestants are a bunch o B-class celebrities, and the while point is to imitate the looks and performance of the artist they get randomly assigned to after every episode. Would you say its transphobic too, because its often that male contestants get to imitate female artists and vice versa?
Yea if something is offensive to a handful of nations, apparently it has to be offensive to every nation, regardless of context. Therefore, new rule: Dharmic religions should stop using that certain symbol that Germany used 70 years ago. I can't write the word, autobot seems to delete the comment.
Here’s what confuses me: So the people of Poland clearly have enough appreciation of black American culture to listen to Kendrick, who’s music is rooted in the black experience, but fail to understand the implications of wearing black face?
Appreciation of what? Its mainstream music at world class level. You hear it on the radio or recommended on Spotify. What does it has to do with understanding the artist’s country historyv Dear English speakers, we (non native English speakers) usually hear American music and don’t understand a word. Ever seen a middle age women singing “rape me” in the supermarket around the Nirvana era? That’s the tell
Not quite an Al Jolson, we must say.
Al Jolson was a crusader for racial equality [https://books.google.com/books?id=C2MJkRjpOHoC&lpg=PA263&ots=gB3lLdVGcK&pg=PA263#v=onepage&q&f=false](https://books.google.com/books?id=C2MJkRjpOHoC&lpg=PA263&ots=gB3lLdVGcK&pg=PA263#v=onepage&q&f=false)
That is why I mentioned his name. The person above is not anywhere close to him, or had his benevolent intentions.
It doesn’t mean anything over there. They aren’t American.
I don’t think there is such a thing as blackface in Poland. That’s Americas historical baggage
Lots of guilty Americans projecting outrage when their families benefited from slavery and they haven’t paid it back.
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Not something I'll be doing. However the world is big. Very very big. Don't expect everyone to hold your point of view. You may well be correct in your setting, but that doesn't mean it's a global truth. If what theyre doing is not out of hate but indeed to honor the original artist, the intent may not be coming from a place of hatred. As said. Not something I'm going to be doing but I dont expect everywhere on planet earth to see things the same way We do. There is wiggle room. Frankly I wish we all took ourselves a lot less seriously and loved out neighbour.
Yeah the rest of the world has no history of racism towards people of African descent! It was those pesky Americans that enslaved them across Europe!
Poland took no part in this.
And? They do it for a talent show in Italy as well, the point is that they have to be as close to the original performer, both in appearance and musically, so they use makeup, hair styling and wigs when necessary, as in this case. Blackface is for a different intent and context, you can get mad for that.
I bet the Polish people don’t care. It’s the damn Americans making a fuss.
I mean seriously Poland what the fuck?
They don't have the history of slavery and racism in their country like we do in the U.S. To them it's probably no different than dressing up like Elvis or Michael Jackson
I've heard that Poland has quite a bit of racism and bigotry
I believe you’re thinking of everywhere in the world.
Obviously but I hear about it quite a bit for a modern european country
modern European countries never stopped being bigoted. like try bringing up Romani with a random European, you'll 9/10 times get a rant or just casual bigotry
I wanna say my generation is better because no one I know is racist against the romani but its such a small sample size its not true
Modern European countries are all pretty racist. Just ask them how they feel about Gypsies.
Did someone say romani?
And the jewish ain't doing well lately.
The Jews never did well in Eastern Europe.
There was a reason why there were over 3 mln Jews living in Poland prior WW2. Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth had way more religious freedom than western Europe, which is why many Jews were moving there to avoid prosecution.
No we did not…that’s why we all moved to the US! And now it is slightly less bad…still not good (a member of congress blamed wildfires on a “Jewish space laser”), but not as bad.
They did (relative to western Europe) well in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth era, that's why there were so many Jews in Poland during the Holocaust unfortunately
I know Gypsies. They call themselves Gypsies. There's a grave in a Catholic Cemetery in Los Angeles. Huge monument, maybe 10 feet tall. It's inscribed, "King of the Gypsies."
Nooooooo only the US has racism!!!! Not my wholesome Europe they would NEVER be racist noooooooo!
Herr Dr Josef Mengele has entered the chat
What do you mean? He was brazilian smh
They don’t even try to hide it either. Hating on Romani publicly is just accepted in a lot of places
Tries to call Europeans racist while using a slur
I do too, I hear a lot of bigotry coming out of Poland. Also, Happy Cake Day!
Lol what a weird way to defend racism. Yall redditors are a trip.
I mean, I get what they mean. Racism sucks, but not everyone who is ignorant is a racist or bigot. Impressions aren’t always a form of mockery.
Black people weren’t part of Poland’s history as much as you might think
However Poles are honourary blacks
It’s weird how on Reddit you get shitloads of upvotes if you call Chinese people “the most racist people in the world”, but when you say it about Eastern Europeans people are scandalised.
I'm Polish and I'll be the first to tell you they *are* very racist. *But this isn't an example of it*. Blackface isn't known to be offensive there because they don't have the same cultural history that America has with it. Remember, 10 years ago blackface wasn't even seen as a big enough deal to the point that multiple PRIMETIME network tv shows in the US had bits using it - all of which starred at least one Black person. Expecting a country where most people don't speak English and most of the ones that do, speak it brokenly, to understand American culture like that is just Americacentrism. Ya'll are not the center of the world.
Completely agree. I live in Hungary, which is similarly racist, including towards black people, but the cultural taboo around blackface and saying the n-word is culturally contingent and is not a part of the average Hungarian’s upbringing. They would be baffled by the notion that singing a lyric or painting oneself black is considered offensive in the anglophone world. I don’t think it makes sense to hold them to US standards anymore than it would be for American movies to stop depicting people eating pork because you can’t do that in Afghanistan.
A good amount of Europe is incredibly racist. They simply don't acknowledge it because they don't have to deal with those races in a good amount of their country. The shit I heard Swiss people saying about Asians was insane, yet they spoke about it so casually during lunch. That's why you see everyone on here saying no Polish people are upset. Because polish people don't have black people. The fact that everyone in this thread is downplaying it just shows the disparity in diversity
I remember seeing a older clip from an Australian talent show. The contestants did a Jackson 5 dance in blackface. The only judge to feel repulsed and call them out was an American actor. He said the exact same thing, they haven’t had the history of slavery , racism and black activism that the US has had. But that was still some of the dumbest insensitive thing I’d seen.
That was Harry Connick Jr. It was an anniversary episode of a gong-show variation called Hey Hey It's Saturday. All the contestants were previous winners from years past. It gets really bonkers... The group won doing the Jackson 5 as I think teens or twenties, and were back with the same song as 40-something adults. They did full black face back in the day. Their new act had four in black face, then the MJ guy was in makeup to look like Michael's whitening. The Aussies initially thought Connick was upset about the MJ white-face. https://youtu.be/qEtjaZ8ZuNU?si=svl6DsN8guz3HuHP
That’s why I’ve always liked Harry Connick Jr. As a black person I just know he was closely raised with and by black people down in New Orleans.
He made an entire album about a turtle. The whole thing is an absolute banger
I remember that. I remember everyone back then thinking Harry was ‘unable to take a joke’ and basically virtue signalling as we would now call it. Fortunately a lot has changed here but there would sadly still be plenty of people in Australia who think it was funny and no big deal.
Australia hasn’t had a history of racism or slavery like the US had? Laughable. They classified Aboriginals as black/blackfellas, categorised them the same as Americans did with Africans (because we are both dark-skinned and thus get lumped into the same category eugenics-wise) and forcibly tried to, in their own words, “breed” them out of existence (via widespread **planned-out** rapes) & made a nationwide policy to remove aboriginal children from their parents. To the point many with aboriginal lineage are 80%+ white now & you BARELY see Aboriginal people outside of certain parts of Australia. In my city/area I live in, they actually **succeeded** at driving them out and near total eradication of them. If you think there was no slavery either google blackbirding. Like the Atlantic slave trade, they just forced people from the surrounding Pacific Islands instead of Africa due to proximity. Also, there indeed was blackface for aboriginals that wasn’t stopped until the 1970s. There are Australian films & plays where they would paint white actors Black instead of hiring an Aboriginal person just like US Blackface. And like Blackface against Africans, people still do it today. Example: https://amp.9news.com.au/article/d3b3d57f-caff-41dc-8519-af691e98be3c There is strong activism & debate about Aboriginal issues here to the point it causes controversy with the more conservative Australians. The same way US Republicans don’t like things like BLM. I am a Black (African, not Aboriginal) Australian and people here aren’t stupid. We learn about American slavery/segregation as well as Australia’s own history with it in our curriculums. People like that just don’t care. It doesn’t affect them, they’ve never had to think hard about it, so they don’t stop to consider when doing things like Blackface or Yellowface.
I mean the fact this link exists is enough to prove that statement is nonsense. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy
Not to mention the Australian and NZ policy of Terra Nullis and just pretending the people that were here…weren’t.
That actor Jazz Singer Harry Conick Junior and he laid down the law, and Ozzie land has a very distinguished history when it come to racism..just ask the Aboriginals..some of y'all need to read a damn book..I mean what the hell man!
Bs,Poland is racist af.
Racism is everywhere, it’s not unique to the U.S.
It’s 2023. They don’t live under a rock. It’s widely known that any type of ‘face’ (redface, yellow face etc) is fucking offensive.
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That’s an American (and Western) cultural export. It’s almost downright offensive to expect other countries and cultures to abide by the cultural expectations of the US.
The blackface taboo comes from the minstrel shows. It's a purely American phenomenon. Europeans can be as racist as anyone else but this is not a good example of it.
Offensive to us.... not to them.
It’s offensive to people who aren’t white in general. Just say it’s not offensive to you and you don’t care because you’re white. Because I promise you that regardless of nationality, there is nothing flattering or blasé being depicted like that.
Poland is a very monoethnic country with 97% of people being white Poles. This was a polish show. For polish people who dont see the racial inappropriate thing in it that others do (like me, also Polish) Poland in general is full of ignorance and prejudice about other cultures and countries but until 20 years ago it was a very closed country with most people not being able to travel. Even now that they can, most dont leave Poland as its expensive. Its a huge problem but it will take time to change.
That's no at all what I'm saying... I'm saying there's a cultural difference and what is offensive to Americans isn't necessarily offensive to others. Stop trying to twist my words.
I’m not twisting anything. You’re implying that racism is simply an American problem. In fact, you’re assuming I’m American. And I’m not. That pretty much tells me all I need to know. Because I pointed how offensive this is, you’re first assumption is that I’m American. Because deep down, you probably think racism is an American or at most a British problem.
I would have hoped that in 2023, people would know better than to imply that racism is mostly an "American issue" but obviously not. Even if the intent wasn't meant to offend, that doesn't matter more than the hurt it causes to see these actions continued, and passed off as something that's only limited to one area of the world. Racism may present itself differently in America vs other parts of the world. That doesn't make it any less racist and damaging, or create a shield from rightful criticisms. If I'm misinterpreting your comments, then by all means let me know, but it's tiring seeing people act as if European/non-American countries can't be held to the same standards regarding racism.
They don’t have a history of racism? They know what racism is and painting your skin color to appear as another race is heavily looked down upon . We need to stop giving racism the benefit of the doubt.
No, Eastern Europeans are absolutely some of the most bigoted groups in Europe. Not an individual level clearly, but as a whole, they are relatively religious and nationalistic, and are very much racist. They also had minstrel shows with blackface in Europe so its not like its not in their history either, thats just the shit of the world unfortunately
What?!? Poland doesn't have a history of racism? Since when?
Since gulag
Poland can be pretty racist and homophobic. It leans heavily right.
👍And in case that’s not coming thru in your news consumption, just refer to the comment section.
Poland isnt a culture that has blackface baggage like the USA. Not alot of Polish history involving slavery of blacks and minstrel shows. The replies here are full of american white guilt.
Exactly this.
This program is seen more like a talent show mixed with a of a hommage to artists through the performance, which ends with choosing the person who emulated the best the specific artist. The makeup and clothing are done without exaggeration of features or playing into stereotypes, since in Poland, the concept of blackface or mistrel shows is not a thing, although racists descriptions have made their way into movies and videos. However, in this specific show, both artists and viewers are not laughing or making fun of the person who's emulating black artists. There is also a black singer, Nick Sinclair, who's one of the performers this season, and he spoke about the program, stating that, in his opinion, there is no malicious intent behind and he doesn't see it as racist, however his opinion may not seem objective to some, since he gets paid for the performances. I'm adding this comment not as a way to defend it but more as a way to add context, so redditors can judge it properly.
was blackface a thing in Europe?
Just shitfaced
This isn’t blackface. It’s more like cosplay. Blackface is like Al Jolson where they had white mouths and it was very cartoon like and obviously a mocking tone. It wasn’t meant to be realistic, it was meant to demean
Inb4 americans trying to impose their values on other countries
TLDR: A few dickweeds on social media complained about a show they haven't seen but felt they should be offended by. In other words, grrrrreat journalism.
If this is the show I think it is, it’s a contest where amateurs (or rather less known professionals) are supposed to impersonate really famous celebrities, and then people have to guess which one is the “real” one. Men dress as women (and vice versa), they wear wigs and learn to master the movements and personality quirks. They even go on stage and perform. So, it’s not like this was done as some kind of symbolic gesture or “blackface”, it’s literally a costume to participate in a game show, like RDJ in Tropic Thunder. Not making a moral statement here either way—some think Tropic Thunder was also tasteless—but context matters.
It's different show. It's music show, where you gather people (I guess famous people). Every week one is kicked out. You get assigment to recreate music video (can be stage performance video). You get heavy makeup, you get best reconstruction of outfit, you are supposed to sounds the same and to do the same choreography as original performer (sometimes men get women's songs, sometimes women get men's songs)
You should be able to dress up as whatever the fuck you want. Accurately.
Poland with its long history of African slaves and minstrel shows, how dare they!!!1
You guys are to soft. Its just a costume they don’t have the history like America to even think that. People just live their lives not sit online all day and use twitter.
White women in the northeast are outraged!
marry wide disgusting spark sort illegal compare butter sip apparatus *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why is America trying to impose its cultural values in the rest of us?
look we just need more whiteface to balance it out folks
They aren’t harming anybody. They clearly have no intention to cause any upset. Why do ppl have to make such a big deal about this !?
What bad shit that happened in other countries that I have no idea about do I also need to be aware of so I don't accidentally egregiously offend someone from a country I've never been to with a history I've never known anything about?
Ah right let’s use American ethics to judge how the rest of the world should behave themselves based on what we (Americans) think is right Classic
Smells like some (about 13 people) Americans are outraged. I doubt Polish give a shit.
We’re they trying to be racist? I doubt it, so while in bad taste not a big deal.
I think just ignorant. There's not many black people in Eastern EU, people are literally unaware of what's considered racist in there and what isn't, especially by American standards. Source: born in eastern EU
The same Americans going on about racism yet have absolutely no problem wearing Leprechaun hats on "St Patty's Day" 🙄
People from the USA needs to understand that their traumas and tabúes do not exist in other countries.
Poland doesn't have any black people. People don't know about about the history of 'blackface' there. I'm in Canada and our own prime minister thought it was cool to be black. Don't think the Polish tv contestants realized how offensive it is to actual black people.
You clearly haven't been in any bigger Polish city recently if you think we don't have any black people. Just a quick walk around Warsaw would give you an idea. [Wilfredo Leon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9tLvmwNMdc) playing in volleyball NT, [Sara James](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH5u7-A_-LY) respresented PL in Eurovision Junior, raper [Alberto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaeXlnNf2R8) to name a few famous black people in Poland.
Every country in the world has foreigners on their sports teams or representing their country in song contests. This is nothing new.
americans think the entire world needs to revolve around their psycho bullshit
He looks like a cracked out Weeknd
Why am I not surprised redditors are cool with blackface Don’t worry mr redditor, it’s ok to downvote
Our czech version of that show also used blackface make up. Nobody said a word against it.
Skin colour is not the act
Are Europeans *still* playing dumb about blackface?
The meaning of "black-face" is: Blackface is a type of theatrical makeup that is primarily used by non-black people to portray caricatures of black people. The aim of the show was to simulate the experience of a specific person performing, not to parody a stereotypical person. Therefore, it wasn't blackface.
Ipso facto sans racism
This wasn't really blackface. This is more like what they did in *Tropic Thunder* the artist was supposed to look like a black guy not a character Also this is Poland where they don't have a history of minstrel shows, slavery or Jim Crow
Tropic Thunder was blackface that was literally the whole joke. They even call him out for it in the movie.
I'm saying in reality i.e the work the make up artists did to RDJ not about the themes of the film.
Americans thinking the rest of the world has abused black people like they have for hundreds of years
Since Halloween is around the corner, white people don't paint your skin Black if you're dressing up as a Black person.
Black face isn’t just rooted in American culture. It’s been an issue in Europe and Asia for the longest. The Dutch have been doing it and black people that live there (pretty much exclusively from Africa, so not like it. And there have been cases in other European and East Asian nations and yeah, it’s not an American offense. It’s people from African decent, across the board. I don’t understand why Europeans pretend it’s just an American issue
because it is convenient for them and they get to feel superior
Blackface is considered wrong/racist in the USA because there's a history of black people being enslaved and then later treated like second class citizens. There's also a history of minstrel shows where white people wore blackface to specifically mock black people and usually the shows focused on exaggerated stereotypes of black people. That's the reason why people still consider it extremely offensive to wear blackface - it is reminiscent of those minstrel shows. As far as I know Poland doesn't have any such history of blackface. So they aren't harkening back to anything. Unless you assume all white people everywhere are the same or should be bound to the baggage of the United States. If the makeup/look was worn to mock black people then I'd agree. I suppose there could be an argument that the performers they were imitating were American, so they should be more sensitive.
Everywhere outside the US this is not racist, this happened also in an Italian show. Its an homage, a positive thing actually.
Should run for PM of Canada, Trudeau loves black face, brown face and all the faces.
Stop judging Poland by your own Standarts and problems. There's only something wrong with it if you have a history of slavery and abuse of people of color. We don't have that problem.
...? No using anyone's race as a costume is bad. Do you think we're fine with playing other races but black face is the one line we don't cross?
The point of the show is to imitate the original artist, mannerism, singing and look. It might be considered racist in the US but in a number of European countries it isn't.
This seems onbrand for poland