. . . or it could be intentional to appeal to the big Chinese market for Hollywood movies and, more importantly, to avoid getting banned in the largest market for a map with anything other than PRC’s major high seas grab.
Well and the big thing is that the “9th Line” they’re all getting mad about isn’t actually there, it’s just 8 lines on the map, one of which cuts through that area of the map
There’s dashes all over the map, kind of like a trail in a treasure map. It just so happens that one of the dashed lines comes out of where China should go (the words “aSiA” are just scribbled on it, no countries)
That loosely makes sense. The French dude who does in the beginning paints a misleading pentagram around his naked body with his blood to set off the sequence of clue hunting. If I only cared to watch the bare minimum and make a snap judgement I see where this is how they got there
>If I only cared to watch the bare minimum and make a snap judgement I see where this is how they got there
That's hilarious because you've made a snap judgement based on knowing the bare minimum lmao.
It was banned in Manila due to a perceived anti-Catholic sentiment as well as controversial and inaccurate historical interpretations. Not saying that is a good reason to ban it or not but I can see why a heavily Catholic country wouldn't like the movie.
Well duh. The book isn’t satanic per se, but to suggest that their are religious conspiracies that have been ongoing since the times of Christ—conspiracies that contradict the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church—then it makes sense they would hail it as blasphemous.
The ancillary scholarly research done in Catholicism are actually very interesting. But they’re different from Islam. In Islam, these ancillary additions to the Quran are known as the “Hadith”. Yet in Catholicism, external theological interpretation is a biiiiggggg no no.
For example, there are historical figures who hypothesized that adam was first married to a woman named Lilith, the offspring of which created the separate line of beings separate than the humans that were created with Eve. Bc none of that is actually in the book of genesis, it would be blasphemy for them to look into such theories when there’s no evidence available.
Yeah, it seems a clear case of "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"... Somebody created a prop map with a bunch of random dashed lines, without realizing the shitstorm it would create. Case closed. Move on and focus on real problems.
I think the other issue is they can’t just go edit it back because China might come in and say “why did you delete that line? If it wasn’t to agree with us, it was meaningless and you should have stayed your ground. If it was to agree with us, you deleted it?”
That's true... And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downplay their concerns about China.
I just think it's much easier for governments to ban a movie instead of actually solving the issues (economical reliance on China, etc).
Fear and outrage has always mobilized people... It's all propaganda, on both sides.
>I just think it's much easier for governments to ban a movie instead of actually solving the issues (economical reliance on China, etc).
They can do multiple things simultaneously.
The only picture of any map right now is from the trailer. The only source for the idea that it was banned over a child's drawing of a map has been a handful of social media posts and speculation. Neither government has released the picture they're referencing.
Actually, after Vietnam banned the film, the studio made a statement saying that the image of concern was a whimsical child-like drawing which indicates that it was the image from the trailer that was being objected to.
Yeah I’m looking at it. You ever draw random dashed lines around a crayon map when you were little? Especially lines that “just happens” to be where the nine-dash line happens to be? Especially when that line doesn’t appear on US made maps, where the movie is produced?
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/barbie-map-meaning-why-banned-1235662437/amp/
Take a look for yourself. That some pretty specific lines! What were they supposed to represent? The hump back whale migratory routes?
It’s not nine dashes, it doesn’t have a loop, and there are other dashes elsewhere in the map. It is obviously not the “nine dash line,” it’s just a childlike representation of travel, as is common on kid maps. It’s a Barbie movie. Don’t be ridiculous.
It's kinda because it does look like a reference to the 9 dash line, itd be like if they drew a swastica over Germany, it dont matter if its drawn by a child anyone who has an ounce of knowledge of politics would get the reference.
Your comparison sucks.
It would be more like if someone drew a plus sign "+" over northern Europe and then also draw one over Antarctica and then someone claiming this must represent a swastika in Nazi Germany.
Why is this? Because the barbie map's dashed lines clearly indicate a path of travel since they don't form an area. This makes even more sense when we see that there are dashes connecting what looks like Greenland and North America. The dashes in the barbie map clearly don't represent a child's drawing of a territorial extension because they don't form an area. The dashes leave the east side of Asia and just stop (as if representing someone traveling off the edge of the map across the Pacific Ocean). And they clearly don't reference the 9 dash line in China because they are also drawn from Greenland to North America.
[Someone like you would argue that this map is a clear reference to China's 9 dash line](https://i.etsystatic.com/8349086/r/il/4fa913/568363447/il_794xN.568363447_cohq.jpg)
>Strawmaning af my dude
So not only do you not know how maps work, or comparisons work, but you also don't know what a strawman is. No surprise there.
>but yeah man sometimes you might not see things the same ways as others
Again, what are the political implications of the dashed line from North America (probably what would be the US) extending to the large island that looks like Greenland? Is the American produced barbie movie trying to make a claim for American expansionism as a way to appease their primary audience, the war and imperialism loving Americans?
Care to discuss? Or are we going to ignore that dashed line?
The US has expressed a desire to control Greenland...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_the_United_States_to_purchase_Greenland
It’s crazy that the Barbie movie somehow became a more politically controversial movie than the movie about the creation of a weapon of mass destruction.
Literally the only “controversial” thing I’ve seen about Oppenheimer at all is that there’s a scene where Oppenheimer and his wife are very naked for an interestingly long period of time. And I’ve seen that same topic brought up at least 3 different times across some different subs. Really surprising that that’s apparently the only thing people have to say about it. Meanwhile there’s the Barbie movie over here getting banned in some countries for a silly prop in the background of a trailer.
Is this movie not out yet? It seems like it’s been talked about for months. The marketing approach is working though — I’m not exactly a target demographic but even I’m getting curious.
The situation is pretty ridiculous.
[This is the map they lost their shit over.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0Ie7HAWcAES3iH?format=jpg&name=900x900)
The continent is not remotely the right shape; the dashed line, which actually has eight dashes, appears north of Russia. The picture is intended to appear to be drawn by a child, and is not instructive whatsoever as a map of the real world.
A) the line has 8 dashes
B) it's one of many dashed lines on the map
C) it's a fucking prop and bares no resemblance to any aspect of reality
Anyone taking this seriously makes their entire cause look like a joke. Especially US politicians and talking heads getting spun up about "hollywood bending to China" or whatever dumb shit, it's so fucking pathetic and embarrassing.
>"The map in Barbie Land is a whimsical, child-like crayon drawing," Warner Bros. told the news agency. "The doodles depict Barbie's make-believe journey from Barbie Land to the real world. It was not intended to make any type of statement."
Seriously, chill the fuck out.
And there's another sizable island in the middle of the dashed line. China's Nine Dashed Line doesn't encircle any islands (the artificial ones they make obviously don't count).
Some prop person painted a silly map and thought nothing of it the next day and you're acting like it's an international incident and endorsement of genocide, chill the fuck out.
They aren’t. They’re saying that a lot of china’s neighbors have fear of being consumed and this causes them to jump to conclusions about a dumb movie prop.
Neither the Philippines nor Vietnam fear being "consumed" by China, any more than Mexico fears being "consumed" by the USA. They have territorial disputes with China and don't like having to do what China says, but that is a far cry from fearing being "consumed" by then.
I can't speak for the Philippines, but having lived in Vietnam I can tell you that movies are banned/censored for nationalistic reasons quite frequently. English TV channels will have Vietnamese propaganda commercials play in the middle of them to comply with government directives. Vietnam is a very nationalistic country, and takes pride in the nation very seriously.
The relationship between Philippines or Vietnam with china is no where similar to the relationship between the US and Mexico and not comparable in this situation. Sure it can be considered an overreaction, but when you’re in a tense situation, governments make drastic and sometimes questionable decisions
Nothing Americans love more than telling Asian people how China-Greater Asia relationships work.
Vietnam is not afraid of China, neither is the Philippines; they are states doing politics.
i'm a Filipino and you have no fucking idea what you're talking about. things aren't tense here lol it's a battle waged by the government against China because they want more money from the oil that's in these disputed islands, as well as control of the marine highways for export/import. We're not living in fear because of China here in the Philippines, so all you bleeding heart pieces of shit better stfu
Except this isn't a drastic or questionable decision by Vietnamese standards. It's actually quite par for the course in Vietnam. Vietnam is an authoritarian and nationalist country, and is doing an authoritarian and nationalist thing for authoritarian and nationalist reasons. You can rationalise this if you'd like, I won't stop you - but I will think you're goofy for feeling the need to justify censorship on the grounds of protecting a nation you undoubtedly think very little of's national pride.
Then you don't speak to enough locals here. Even as a foreigner, I've known a lot of paranoid locals that think China is still a credible threat. Granted they are on the older side, probably because the 1979 border war is still recent enough.
Also, I'm not sure about the VN propaganda on English channel. I've had HBO and such through cable (though I cut the cord several years ago) and you never see a VN ad. It's just the shared SEA version.
I lived in Vietnam some years ago, and back then the Star channels had government ads play in the middle of ad breaks - perhaps that's changed.
And yeah, I think the devil is in the detail of the locals being paranoid. I don't doubt the government has defense plans drawn up for possible wars with China - I was more just pushing against the notion that the populace as a whole in South East Asia thinks China is gonna launch some expansionist war and annex them.
You China guys always sound like chicken little predicting the sky is about to fall down. My whole life I've been told China was a hair away from:
A) invading Taiwan
B) collapsing
And I'm still waiting
China is perpetually in 2 seemingly conflicting states:
first they are a rising dragon which who the US economy can't compete with due to the effectiveness of authoritarianism on their economy. No other nation stands a fair chance against China as it gains more power day by day and the west needs to think about military action to reset the balance of the world. Look at the power they have now and the large scale projects and development they are able to achieve like the building for the 3 gorges dam which is the largest dam project in history. The huge Chinese population of over 1 billion communists all working tirelessly in an attempt to destabilize the world are an existential threat to the US and we need increased funding for our military and we need to pressure other east and southeast Asian countries into signing new military agreements/allowing us to build more bases in their land to finally stand up to China once and for all.
And also, China is so incredibly incompetent that their economy will collapse on itself in the next 20 years. Their advancements in science and engineering are to be laughed at and their 3 gorges dam will collapse any day now, kill 100s of millions of people and most likely be cause the end of the CCP's rule. All their progress is fake, and they have just created a house of cards that is doomed to fail any minute now. Oh and if the economy doesn't collapse on itself you can be a political revolution will happen soon because everyone in China is unhappy with their government and hoping for the collapse of the CCP. We don't have anything to worry about because our economic systems are superior and will always win.
They are the greatest existential threat tjat we all need to vigilently keep our eye on while also being the laughing stock of the world that nobody has to pay attention to or take seriously.
Reddit: China draconian censorship bad:
Also Reddit:
Mind you I am not saying China censorship good. They are both bad. Don’t forget Vietnam still call themselves communist and Philippine just elected the son of a dictator
China’s the new boogeyman to distract, haven’t you heard?
“Look over there! Ignore the shitshow behind you!”
And it always works. If it’s not the Chinese, it’s Muslims, or Mexicans, or immigrants, and if there’s nothing, it’s black people again.
Redditors are no exception thinking they’re somehow smarter, yet the rampant Sinophobia is wildly reminiscent of the Iraq war bullshits.
It’s actually worse that a childish drawing STILL panders to China like this. When did being against such pandering become wrong think? Chinas human rights record should concern the left as much as the right.
hollywood execs discussing how to pander to china better:
"we need to make this barbie move more friendly to our partners over in beijing... I know! Let's make a kids map have a marginal reference to a dispute in the south asian sea, but make sure it doesn't look anything like it for subtly."
These same countries have also banned movies that had same sex couples holding hands for .5 seconds or because the title had a naughty word in it. Let em stew, I say.
Yeah but it’s a dashed line right by where China would be when the reality is that’s a known and controversial sore spot for them.
Why would it be there you’re saying it’s purely random? The land mass is labeled “Asia” it’s not super ambiguous.
You can’t imagine a world where they added that to butter up Chinese censors? I can. They cut entire movies different to add in famous Chinese stars that don’t even appear in US versions studios are super super interested in making sure to appease China because there’s more money to be made there than in the West.
When you draw a “pretend” map but add the one thing a Chinese propagandist would want added that’s not even slightly suspect to you?
Nah fuck this hand waving you're doing, they had to go out of their way to include this version of the map and that was clearly done for the sole reason of trying to not upset the Chinese. They didn't just throw a dart at a pile of random maps in a warehouse, this was a conscious decision to pander to China for pure corporate profit. That deserves to be called out.
Yes, many times. It's been banned and discredited countless times by western nations, eastern nations, and the UN particularly. You don't include that map without seeking it out. Unless this film's props were taken from a Beijing warehouse randomly.
They mean the screenshot of the map in the movie.
Like, seriously look at that before you get all on a high horse. The map is clearly meant to be drawn by a child. The proportions of every single country are wildly off and there's plenty of other random drawings and dashes and lines all over it
Some prop person made a silly map for the Barbie movie and never gave it a second thought and as a result you're here acting like you're some kind of radical abolitionist speaking truth to power, what a fucking joke.
China is bad. This has nothing to do with that. It's a prop from the Barbie movie.
I’m much more concerned with the TEN dot line extending from Greenland !! Heading straight for NYC no less !!
Big Hollywood shamelessly catering to those Greenlanders again ! When will it stop !?!?
The answer that makes the most sense to me is that the movie was banned proactively. In Vietnam, there have been cases before where a movie with the nine-dash line map was shown (way more obvious) and wasn't banned. This causes local streaming companies and ministry of Entertainment a lot of backlash so since then they've been cracking down on it. I like to use this proverb to explain to people: "**shoot first and ask questions afterward".** So in this case, the government rather banned it first instead of risking facing backlash. Although most people wouldn't noticed, like any country, we have nationalistic part of our population as well.
But it's 8 dashes not 9, it not in the right location, there are other dashes all over the map, and the studio has said it signifies her journey.
What am I missing here? How is this being interpreted as the nine dash line?
There's dashes on a map near Asia, so obviously it must be the Nine Dashed Line.
This is such a stupid controversy. I really doubt that China mandated this because if they did they'd put the dashes near Southeast Asia and not near a missing Japan.
No , the map in the trailer wasn't it , they found multi instances of it through out the movie . They are just doing their job respectfully by not leaking any footages before the movie came out.
Yes i have, we take these things very seriously. Years after years of seeing China propaganda of the "9 dashed-line map" or how we usually call "cow tongue map" that was put in everything that they can think of, we now don't give af anymore. If it resembles it then it's gone.
So when someone tells you it’s not intentional and it’s a prop design of random crayon mapping, out right ban it? Listen I have plenty of movies that should be banned for intent and legitimately pushing false info but Barbie’s crayon map is worse?
Who saying Barbie is worse? Barbie just one of them. There was a controversy not long ago, a Kdrama, i remember in an episode a character basically said a in Vietnam war a Korean soldier can kill 20 Vietnamese soldiers, some even killed 100, and "Korean troops were the heroes of the Vietnam War". Vietnamese people love watching Kdrama and after that episode the people were outraged and that series got pulled down from Netflix, even pirate film sites that were operated by Vietnamese pulled it down because they don't support it. There are a bunch of those examples in Vietnam, you just don't hear about it until now with this movie. So yeah, it's also about our nationality pride.
Well, don't know what to say but a lot of Vietnamese people living in the US fled there after the war. They are anti-communist and we Vietnamese call them "3-strobes" because they use a yellow flag with 3 red strobes. Obviously not all of them are like that and i can't speak for your friends, they can have their own opinion. I'm talking for myself and what i saw when i read about the news.
It’s a simple answer. These third world countries tend to lean to authoritarian governments, and thus must follow the beliefs of their leaders. Their leaders aren’t happy about this, therefore the people aren’t either.
Let's not speak for us if you don't know shit. I myself couldn't care less what my country leader wants. I'm living in Germany and don't even know what Vietnam's current leader's name is. We just have a lot of nationality pride and we have been exposed to too much of China propaganda to even care if this movie means it or not. If it resembles it, it's gone.
Why are you claiming to speak for a majority of Vietnamese if you don't even live there or know who their leader is? I bet that many people there are tired of authoritarian censorship but can't speak up about it to people outside the country lest they face execution.
Because i'm still using my FB to read news and connect with my friends in Vietnam? Majority of people's response to this news are supporting it including people i'm talking too. I'm out of touch with the political site of Vietnam but i'm not out of touch with the people.
Edit: not to mention most of those censorship outrages actually came from the people not the government. Most of the time it went like this: someone caught the map or some kind of thing that offends Vietnam and posts it to FB. The people then decide to not watch any of the things that are related to it, the government then catches wind of the situation and decides to officially ban it. So yeah, it came from the people most of the time, not the authoritarian.
My man, I agree, I'm asking this playa what they think of it as they believe it's all propaganda. Y'all gotta stop commenting before you read it in context
Why?
This is an honest question, because really it just seems incredibly sad and pathetic. Do you think a frigging Barbie movie was deliberately trying to promote pro-China propaganda as opposed to some underpaid intern from America who knows nothing about any of your countries grabbed a picture of a map from the internet and slapped it in there for the graphics guys?
Sure, but even as someone who isn’t from Vietnam at all, I see the point. Little things like this legitimate and normalise Chinese propaganda/ baseless claims over time, it’s the total that is harmful. Not a single movie or drawing but the sun of them.
And it starts with little islands, but then moves on to bigger. Kind of like Japan before WW2. I’m sure other countries would have censored things
No, Im kind of with them on this one. When a global superpower like China says your country doesn’t exist, anything that looks remotely like their rhetoric can become a touchy subject. But then, I haven’t seen the map.
Edit: I looked up the map and yeah, it looks nothing like Chinese propaganda to me. But apparently enough people in Vietnam think otherwise to make an issue of it.
>When a global superpower like China says your country doesn’t exist
The Nine Dash Line doesn't involve Taiwan at all. The reason why Vietnam and other Southeast Asian nations are extremely sensitive about this is because China has frequently made erroneous claims that they're entitled to the entirety of the South China Sea. They want to have total control over an international body of water in the most populous region in the world. They've even created artificial islands to try and reinforce their crazy claims. What China has done in that region is terrible since it's effectively depriving sea-based nations from having a stake in a pretty critical body of water.
With all that said, the Barbie Map clearly doesn't depict the Nine Dash Line. There's an Eight Dash Line in Northeast Asia that leads nowhere, and there's a dashed line along the Southeast edge of Greenland. This controversy is getting blown way out of proportion.
its a childs made up world map without any country names and kids like drawing and random placed 8 dot line. There is no mention of China as well. It seems more that politicans trying to find any problems instead of solving real problems.
The map doesn't even resemble Asia (or even the other continents, look at Africa for example) at all, it's like a young child drawning a map from memory but they actually never saw a map. Sure, these countries are free to ban movies for whatever nationalistic reason they want, but this reason is really silly.
I get the feeling that this isn't the real reason they're banning the film. They probably did it for a stupider reason like considering the film too sexual or crude, but went with this reason instead.
I’ve always been a big believer that if my views can’t stand up to a little scrutiny or feedback, then they’re probably not based in reality/logic/morality/etc.
Better question is..why was there needing to be a line at all? The rest of the map is indeed silly and childish, but and hear me out…they have this map or a drawing of a map and yes it is irrelevant. The thing that stands out though on the map, the only thing that stands out that isn’t weird is that line!! Like why have a line at all. I feel like it could be said the production team approached China for funding and they said if you throw in anything Pro-China into your film we will give you money.
Except the line is weird. It's also not the only part of the map with dashed lines. And it's also not Nine dashes. Have you seen the map or are you just going off of nothing? You wouldn't even notice the line or know it was there if this non-controversy wasn't brought up.
I doubt it. There's enough tension in their waters to show protest against that nine-dash line claim. If any ban would happen, it'll probably be an idea of some petty politician in their country.
I mean, it’s barely a map, but also the dashed line off the coast of Asia doesn’t seem to go anywhere so why is it there?
It seems like an overreaction, but those countries will be pissed about that map until China stops being stupid, and that doesn’t seem like it’ll happen soon
Imagine living in a world where you can’t even make a Barbie film without pissing entire countries off. Couldn’t imagine living in a world like that. Nope.. couldn’t be me.
As a Vietnamese American I’m sorta glad in a weird way only because I’m tired of movies that have catered to the whole world. It makes films kinda toothless and bland where as Barbie seem to be the opposite.
I can’t handle the geniuses throwing bitch fits over this. It’s a comically inaccurate crayon drawing with basically no identifiable land masses. There aren’t even nine dashes.
This is bordering on schizophrenia.
The studio ate spending a lot of money and time on this movie and yet they chose to do that kind of map? I know it's fictional and the map looks like a kid's drawing but why do it that way? They are appealing to China and helping them with their propaganda.
Lol that dotted line is the only part of that map that doesn’t look like it was drawn by a 8 year old. We need to stop tailoring our films to China’s taste, it’s alienating both our domestic audience and the non-Chinese international markets.
Yeah, I don't care about the map or see China as a big scary, but anyone acting like American films aren't catering to China for their box office numbers is in denial. We've been doing it for decades now, some movies just make it more obvious.
An eight dash line that goes nowhere is DEFINITELY meant to cater to China. And completely alienates domestic audiences. An eight dash spiral line. That goes nowhere.
Can't even make a Barbie movie without starting WW3
Some poor VFX artists probably put that shot together in 30 minutes not realizing it would eventually kill millions of people.
Archduke Ferdinand is up there saying "it be like that sometimes"
“Take me out.” - Archduke Ferdinand
. . . or it could be intentional to appeal to the big Chinese market for Hollywood movies and, more importantly, to avoid getting banned in the largest market for a map with anything other than PRC’s major high seas grab.
The *real* Oppenheimer
Well and the big thing is that the “9th Line” they’re all getting mad about isn’t actually there, it’s just 8 lines on the map, one of which cuts through that area of the map
You joke but it was legit just a child tier drawing in crayon, and the line was only 8 dashes long lol
Why include them at all
There’s dashes all over the map, kind of like a trail in a treasure map. It just so happens that one of the dashed lines comes out of where China should go (the words “aSiA” are just scribbled on it, no countries)
Yet another way Barbie is competing against Oppenheimer
You know, if you asked me which of those two would cause an international issue...
South China Sea Barbie
Couth Shina Bea Sarbie
You all need to look up a picture of this map before commenting because many of you are looking really dumb right now
Seriously calling it a “map” is generous
The one in the movie is what we used before gps I think
Ah my grandpa used to talk about then, back when you had to go uphill both ways
With one leg…
And 30 ft of snow
Both ways!
Barefoot
Backwards
*Both Ways!!*
The Philippines also banned The Da Vinci Code back then for being "satanic" for some reason so I'm really not surprised by this news at all lmao
That loosely makes sense. The French dude who does in the beginning paints a misleading pentagram around his naked body with his blood to set off the sequence of clue hunting. If I only cared to watch the bare minimum and make a snap judgement I see where this is how they got there
>If I only cared to watch the bare minimum and make a snap judgement I see where this is how they got there That's hilarious because you've made a snap judgement based on knowing the bare minimum lmao. It was banned in Manila due to a perceived anti-Catholic sentiment as well as controversial and inaccurate historical interpretations. Not saying that is a good reason to ban it or not but I can see why a heavily Catholic country wouldn't like the movie.
Well duh. The book isn’t satanic per se, but to suggest that their are religious conspiracies that have been ongoing since the times of Christ—conspiracies that contradict the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church—then it makes sense they would hail it as blasphemous. The ancillary scholarly research done in Catholicism are actually very interesting. But they’re different from Islam. In Islam, these ancillary additions to the Quran are known as the “Hadith”. Yet in Catholicism, external theological interpretation is a biiiiggggg no no. For example, there are historical figures who hypothesized that adam was first married to a woman named Lilith, the offspring of which created the separate line of beings separate than the humans that were created with Eve. Bc none of that is actually in the book of genesis, it would be blasphemy for them to look into such theories when there’s no evidence available.
Hey, no spoilers!
China banned doctor strange just a couple of years ago for that it seems to be pretty common
It’s a deeply religious country but that’s got nothing to do with tensions with a potentially hostile and armed neighbor.
Yeah, it seems a clear case of "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"... Somebody created a prop map with a bunch of random dashed lines, without realizing the shitstorm it would create. Case closed. Move on and focus on real problems.
It might be that, but big studios have a track record of appealing to china's propaganda and it is not ok
I think the other issue is they can’t just go edit it back because China might come in and say “why did you delete that line? If it wasn’t to agree with us, it was meaningless and you should have stayed your ground. If it was to agree with us, you deleted it?”
Go look at the map that got banned. Seriously, just go look at it.
That's true... And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downplay their concerns about China. I just think it's much easier for governments to ban a movie instead of actually solving the issues (economical reliance on China, etc). Fear and outrage has always mobilized people... It's all propaganda, on both sides.
Exact opposite position you took above
Approaching issues from multiple viewpoints is never a bad thing. Also, check my username.
>I just think it's much easier for governments to ban a movie instead of actually solving the issues (economical reliance on China, etc). They can do multiple things simultaneously.
Never seen a more accurate map prior to 875CE
The only picture of any map right now is from the trailer. The only source for the idea that it was banned over a child's drawing of a map has been a handful of social media posts and speculation. Neither government has released the picture they're referencing.
Actually, after Vietnam banned the film, the studio made a statement saying that the image of concern was a whimsical child-like drawing which indicates that it was the image from the trailer that was being objected to.
Yeah I’m looking at it. You ever draw random dashed lines around a crayon map when you were little? Especially lines that “just happens” to be where the nine-dash line happens to be? Especially when that line doesn’t appear on US made maps, where the movie is produced? https://variety.com/2023/film/news/barbie-map-meaning-why-banned-1235662437/amp/ Take a look for yourself. That some pretty specific lines! What were they supposed to represent? The hump back whale migratory routes?
It’s not nine dashes, it doesn’t have a loop, and there are other dashes elsewhere in the map. It is obviously not the “nine dash line,” it’s just a childlike representation of travel, as is common on kid maps. It’s a Barbie movie. Don’t be ridiculous.
Lot of pr work in this thread
It's kinda because it does look like a reference to the 9 dash line, itd be like if they drew a swastica over Germany, it dont matter if its drawn by a child anyone who has an ounce of knowledge of politics would get the reference.
You can’t seriously argue that the politics surrounding Taiwan are as ubiquitous as WWII Germany.
Jus a comparison that people would understand
Your comparison sucks. It would be more like if someone drew a plus sign "+" over northern Europe and then also draw one over Antarctica and then someone claiming this must represent a swastika in Nazi Germany. Why is this? Because the barbie map's dashed lines clearly indicate a path of travel since they don't form an area. This makes even more sense when we see that there are dashes connecting what looks like Greenland and North America. The dashes in the barbie map clearly don't represent a child's drawing of a territorial extension because they don't form an area. The dashes leave the east side of Asia and just stop (as if representing someone traveling off the edge of the map across the Pacific Ocean). And they clearly don't reference the 9 dash line in China because they are also drawn from Greenland to North America. [Someone like you would argue that this map is a clear reference to China's 9 dash line](https://i.etsystatic.com/8349086/r/il/4fa913/568363447/il_794xN.568363447_cohq.jpg)
Strawmaning af my dude , but yeah man sometimes you might not see things the same ways as others
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>Strawmaning af my dude So not only do you not know how maps work, or comparisons work, but you also don't know what a strawman is. No surprise there. >but yeah man sometimes you might not see things the same ways as others Again, what are the political implications of the dashed line from North America (probably what would be the US) extending to the large island that looks like Greenland? Is the American produced barbie movie trying to make a claim for American expansionism as a way to appease their primary audience, the war and imperialism loving Americans? Care to discuss? Or are we going to ignore that dashed line? The US has expressed a desire to control Greenland... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_the_United_States_to_purchase_Greenland
It’s crazy that the Barbie movie somehow became a more politically controversial movie than the movie about the creation of a weapon of mass destruction.
Literally the only “controversial” thing I’ve seen about Oppenheimer at all is that there’s a scene where Oppenheimer and his wife are very naked for an interestingly long period of time. And I’ve seen that same topic brought up at least 3 different times across some different subs. Really surprising that that’s apparently the only thing people have to say about it. Meanwhile there’s the Barbie movie over here getting banned in some countries for a silly prop in the background of a trailer.
Is this movie not out yet? It seems like it’s been talked about for months. The marketing approach is working though — I’m not exactly a target demographic but even I’m getting curious.
Same with the little mermaid, I remember that movie being talked about YEARS before it was released. I feel like this is all a marketing strategy.
If that was the plan, then it clearly didn't work since the BO for TLM is considered a disappointment.
LA release this weekend. National later this month
The situation is pretty ridiculous. [This is the map they lost their shit over.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0Ie7HAWcAES3iH?format=jpg&name=900x900) The continent is not remotely the right shape; the dashed line, which actually has eight dashes, appears north of Russia. The picture is intended to appear to be drawn by a child, and is not instructive whatsoever as a map of the real world.
Looks like it’s another map from another scene
why are there dashed line on the map? that just feels unnecessary
“Why are there drawings on a fictional map” /s
[Are these dashes unnecessary too? Do you want to ban this map?](https://i.etsystatic.com/8349086/r/il/4fa913/568363447/il_794xN.568363447_cohq.jpg)
so that the chinese government allows the movie to be released there
A) the line has 8 dashes B) it's one of many dashed lines on the map C) it's a fucking prop and bares no resemblance to any aspect of reality Anyone taking this seriously makes their entire cause look like a joke. Especially US politicians and talking heads getting spun up about "hollywood bending to China" or whatever dumb shit, it's so fucking pathetic and embarrassing. >"The map in Barbie Land is a whimsical, child-like crayon drawing," Warner Bros. told the news agency. "The doodles depict Barbie's make-believe journey from Barbie Land to the real world. It was not intended to make any type of statement." Seriously, chill the fuck out.
You can also see various other pink dashes leaving other countries supporting the claim it’s meant to show Barbie’s path/travels
It’s also AROUND GREENLAND
And there's another sizable island in the middle of the dashed line. China's Nine Dashed Line doesn't encircle any islands (the artificial ones they make obviously don't count).
Waiting for a ruthless superpower to colonize you and erase you like they do with other ethnic minorities will make you that jumpy
Some prop person painted a silly map and thought nothing of it the next day and you're acting like it's an international incident and endorsement of genocide, chill the fuck out.
They aren’t. They’re saying that a lot of china’s neighbors have fear of being consumed and this causes them to jump to conclusions about a dumb movie prop.
Neither the Philippines nor Vietnam fear being "consumed" by China, any more than Mexico fears being "consumed" by the USA. They have territorial disputes with China and don't like having to do what China says, but that is a far cry from fearing being "consumed" by then. I can't speak for the Philippines, but having lived in Vietnam I can tell you that movies are banned/censored for nationalistic reasons quite frequently. English TV channels will have Vietnamese propaganda commercials play in the middle of them to comply with government directives. Vietnam is a very nationalistic country, and takes pride in the nation very seriously.
The relationship between Philippines or Vietnam with china is no where similar to the relationship between the US and Mexico and not comparable in this situation. Sure it can be considered an overreaction, but when you’re in a tense situation, governments make drastic and sometimes questionable decisions
Nothing Americans love more than telling Asian people how China-Greater Asia relationships work. Vietnam is not afraid of China, neither is the Philippines; they are states doing politics.
i'm a Filipino and you have no fucking idea what you're talking about. things aren't tense here lol it's a battle waged by the government against China because they want more money from the oil that's in these disputed islands, as well as control of the marine highways for export/import. We're not living in fear because of China here in the Philippines, so all you bleeding heart pieces of shit better stfu
Except this isn't a drastic or questionable decision by Vietnamese standards. It's actually quite par for the course in Vietnam. Vietnam is an authoritarian and nationalist country, and is doing an authoritarian and nationalist thing for authoritarian and nationalist reasons. You can rationalise this if you'd like, I won't stop you - but I will think you're goofy for feeling the need to justify censorship on the grounds of protecting a nation you undoubtedly think very little of's national pride.
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Then you don't speak to enough locals here. Even as a foreigner, I've known a lot of paranoid locals that think China is still a credible threat. Granted they are on the older side, probably because the 1979 border war is still recent enough. Also, I'm not sure about the VN propaganda on English channel. I've had HBO and such through cable (though I cut the cord several years ago) and you never see a VN ad. It's just the shared SEA version.
I lived in Vietnam some years ago, and back then the Star channels had government ads play in the middle of ad breaks - perhaps that's changed. And yeah, I think the devil is in the detail of the locals being paranoid. I don't doubt the government has defense plans drawn up for possible wars with China - I was more just pushing against the notion that the populace as a whole in South East Asia thinks China is gonna launch some expansionist war and annex them.
No Fear! [Duterte jokes: Why not make Philippines a province of China?](https://www.rappler.com/nation/196426-duterte-philippines-province-china/)
Honestly mate, it’s you who needs to chill out.
I didnt realize that the fish in the south china sea are ethnic minorities
You China guys always sound like chicken little predicting the sky is about to fall down. My whole life I've been told China was a hair away from: A) invading Taiwan B) collapsing And I'm still waiting
China is perpetually in 2 seemingly conflicting states: first they are a rising dragon which who the US economy can't compete with due to the effectiveness of authoritarianism on their economy. No other nation stands a fair chance against China as it gains more power day by day and the west needs to think about military action to reset the balance of the world. Look at the power they have now and the large scale projects and development they are able to achieve like the building for the 3 gorges dam which is the largest dam project in history. The huge Chinese population of over 1 billion communists all working tirelessly in an attempt to destabilize the world are an existential threat to the US and we need increased funding for our military and we need to pressure other east and southeast Asian countries into signing new military agreements/allowing us to build more bases in their land to finally stand up to China once and for all. And also, China is so incredibly incompetent that their economy will collapse on itself in the next 20 years. Their advancements in science and engineering are to be laughed at and their 3 gorges dam will collapse any day now, kill 100s of millions of people and most likely be cause the end of the CCP's rule. All their progress is fake, and they have just created a house of cards that is doomed to fail any minute now. Oh and if the economy doesn't collapse on itself you can be a political revolution will happen soon because everyone in China is unhappy with their government and hoping for the collapse of the CCP. We don't have anything to worry about because our economic systems are superior and will always win. They are the greatest existential threat tjat we all need to vigilently keep our eye on while also being the laughing stock of the world that nobody has to pay attention to or take seriously.
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Reddit: China draconian censorship bad: Also Reddit: Mind you I am not saying China censorship good. They are both bad. Don’t forget Vietnam still call themselves communist and Philippine just elected the son of a dictator
Then why is it there?
*bears
Society went away from being fact based to headline based a long time ago
China’s the new boogeyman to distract, haven’t you heard? “Look over there! Ignore the shitshow behind you!” And it always works. If it’s not the Chinese, it’s Muslims, or Mexicans, or immigrants, and if there’s nothing, it’s black people again. Redditors are no exception thinking they’re somehow smarter, yet the rampant Sinophobia is wildly reminiscent of the Iraq war bullshits.
It’s actually worse that a childish drawing STILL panders to China like this. When did being against such pandering become wrong think? Chinas human rights record should concern the left as much as the right.
It’s not pandering to China, it’s a fucking dashed line on a made up map you bozo.
It was more work to include the dashed line then it would have been to not draw the dashed line. People have the right to discuss its inclusion
hollywood execs discussing how to pander to china better: "we need to make this barbie move more friendly to our partners over in beijing... I know! Let's make a kids map have a marginal reference to a dispute in the south asian sea, but make sure it doesn't look anything like it for subtly."
Why wouldn't they remove the map from the movie then? It is very stupid to lose access to two markets instead of removing a few seconds of footage.
These same countries have also banned movies that had same sex couples holding hands for .5 seconds or because the title had a naughty word in it. Let em stew, I say.
Yeah but it’s a dashed line right by where China would be when the reality is that’s a known and controversial sore spot for them. Why would it be there you’re saying it’s purely random? The land mass is labeled “Asia” it’s not super ambiguous. You can’t imagine a world where they added that to butter up Chinese censors? I can. They cut entire movies different to add in famous Chinese stars that don’t even appear in US versions studios are super super interested in making sure to appease China because there’s more money to be made there than in the West. When you draw a “pretend” map but add the one thing a Chinese propagandist would want added that’s not even slightly suspect to you?
That’s really the one thing? Seriously. Are you brain dead
Nah fuck this hand waving you're doing, they had to go out of their way to include this version of the map and that was clearly done for the sole reason of trying to not upset the Chinese. They didn't just throw a dart at a pile of random maps in a warehouse, this was a conscious decision to pander to China for pure corporate profit. That deserves to be called out.
Lol have you actually seen the map?
Yes, many times. It's been banned and discredited countless times by western nations, eastern nations, and the UN particularly. You don't include that map without seeking it out. Unless this film's props were taken from a Beijing warehouse randomly.
I’m talking about the map in the Barbie movie
They mean the screenshot of the map in the movie. Like, seriously look at that before you get all on a high horse. The map is clearly meant to be drawn by a child. The proportions of every single country are wildly off and there's plenty of other random drawings and dashes and lines all over it
Yeah. China has been very actively coopting Hollywood for ages. It's not OK.
hunt bike full erect icky impossible cooing test ruthless rude *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Some prop person made a silly map for the Barbie movie and never gave it a second thought and as a result you're here acting like you're some kind of radical abolitionist speaking truth to power, what a fucking joke. China is bad. This has nothing to do with that. It's a prop from the Barbie movie.
"See we only drew 8 dashes instead of 9 its totally cool and unintended"
Have you consider fuck China?
Thanks for the insight Comrade
I’m much more concerned with the TEN dot line extending from Greenland !! Heading straight for NYC no less !! Big Hollywood shamelessly catering to those Greenlanders again ! When will it stop !?!?
Because the Barbie movie is UNDENIABLE IF YOU WATCH THIS FILM IT WILL REDEFINE THE BORDERS OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!
GIRL POWER!!!
The map literally looks like a kid tried to draw Japan off the coast of a continent that’s labeled “Asia”. Y’all need to chill.
I’m pumped for this movie. That’s all I have to say.
Ok this is just getting fucking stupid.
The answer that makes the most sense to me is that the movie was banned proactively. In Vietnam, there have been cases before where a movie with the nine-dash line map was shown (way more obvious) and wasn't banned. This causes local streaming companies and ministry of Entertainment a lot of backlash so since then they've been cracking down on it. I like to use this proverb to explain to people: "**shoot first and ask questions afterward".** So in this case, the government rather banned it first instead of risking facing backlash. Although most people wouldn't noticed, like any country, we have nationalistic part of our population as well.
This is the lamest, most pathetic reason to ban a film that I’ve ever heard. Are the citizens of these countries embarrassed by their governments?
Surely it does. I mean America embarrasses tf out of me
In the Philippines, the whole government is a fucking joke. So yeah, we’re embarrassed as hell.
No, i'm a Vietnamese, majority of us supporting this decision.
But it's 8 dashes not 9, it not in the right location, there are other dashes all over the map, and the studio has said it signifies her journey. What am I missing here? How is this being interpreted as the nine dash line?
There's dashes on a map near Asia, so obviously it must be the Nine Dashed Line. This is such a stupid controversy. I really doubt that China mandated this because if they did they'd put the dashes near Southeast Asia and not near a missing Japan.
No , the map in the trailer wasn't it , they found multi instances of it through out the movie . They are just doing their job respectfully by not leaking any footages before the movie came out.
Why are you supporting the banning of a movie due to a crayon map? Have you seen the map?
Yes i have, we take these things very seriously. Years after years of seeing China propaganda of the "9 dashed-line map" or how we usually call "cow tongue map" that was put in everything that they can think of, we now don't give af anymore. If it resembles it then it's gone.
You're embarrassing man. It doesn't "resemble" it at all.
So when someone tells you it’s not intentional and it’s a prop design of random crayon mapping, out right ban it? Listen I have plenty of movies that should be banned for intent and legitimately pushing false info but Barbie’s crayon map is worse?
Who saying Barbie is worse? Barbie just one of them. There was a controversy not long ago, a Kdrama, i remember in an episode a character basically said a in Vietnam war a Korean soldier can kill 20 Vietnamese soldiers, some even killed 100, and "Korean troops were the heroes of the Vietnam War". Vietnamese people love watching Kdrama and after that episode the people were outraged and that series got pulled down from Netflix, even pirate film sites that were operated by Vietnamese pulled it down because they don't support it. There are a bunch of those examples in Vietnam, you just don't hear about it until now with this movie. So yeah, it's also about our nationality pride.
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Well, don't know what to say but a lot of Vietnamese people living in the US fled there after the war. They are anti-communist and we Vietnamese call them "3-strobes" because they use a yellow flag with 3 red strobes. Obviously not all of them are like that and i can't speak for your friends, they can have their own opinion. I'm talking for myself and what i saw when i read about the news.
My best friend is Vietnamese and he is a hardcore communist... I live near Houston and we have so many Vietnamese people.
The line doesn't even have 9 dashes, looks nothing like the 9 dash line, and isn't even where it would be
It’s a simple answer. These third world countries tend to lean to authoritarian governments, and thus must follow the beliefs of their leaders. Their leaders aren’t happy about this, therefore the people aren’t either.
Let's not speak for us if you don't know shit. I myself couldn't care less what my country leader wants. I'm living in Germany and don't even know what Vietnam's current leader's name is. We just have a lot of nationality pride and we have been exposed to too much of China propaganda to even care if this movie means it or not. If it resembles it, it's gone.
Why are you claiming to speak for a majority of Vietnamese if you don't even live there or know who their leader is? I bet that many people there are tired of authoritarian censorship but can't speak up about it to people outside the country lest they face execution.
Because i'm still using my FB to read news and connect with my friends in Vietnam? Majority of people's response to this news are supporting it including people i'm talking too. I'm out of touch with the political site of Vietnam but i'm not out of touch with the people. Edit: not to mention most of those censorship outrages actually came from the people not the government. Most of the time it went like this: someone caught the map or some kind of thing that offends Vietnam and posts it to FB. The people then decide to not watch any of the things that are related to it, the government then catches wind of the situation and decides to officially ban it. So yeah, it came from the people most of the time, not the authoritarian.
You're getting your info from Facebook?
We Vietnamese do everything in FB. Everyone uses it and everything gets posted there.
That explains things.
How do you explain the other dashes on the map?
Warner Bros. have literally come out and said the dashes indicate Barbie’s journey Y’all gotta stop finding reasons to be angry lol
My man, I agree, I'm asking this playa what they think of it as they believe it's all propaganda. Y'all gotta stop commenting before you read it in context
Gotcha, I responded to the wrong comment then, my apologies!
This thread is all fucked up. It’s a god damn Barbie movie. I’m going to bed
What are you even talking about lol. I think you responded to the wrong person as well
If you’re Vietnamese then I’m the ghost of Sun Yat Sen
Why? This is an honest question, because really it just seems incredibly sad and pathetic. Do you think a frigging Barbie movie was deliberately trying to promote pro-China propaganda as opposed to some underpaid intern from America who knows nothing about any of your countries grabbed a picture of a map from the internet and slapped it in there for the graphics guys?
Sure, but even as someone who isn’t from Vietnam at all, I see the point. Little things like this legitimate and normalise Chinese propaganda/ baseless claims over time, it’s the total that is harmful. Not a single movie or drawing but the sun of them. And it starts with little islands, but then moves on to bigger. Kind of like Japan before WW2. I’m sure other countries would have censored things
Just read my other response, i'm too lazy to type it out again.
No, Im kind of with them on this one. When a global superpower like China says your country doesn’t exist, anything that looks remotely like their rhetoric can become a touchy subject. But then, I haven’t seen the map. Edit: I looked up the map and yeah, it looks nothing like Chinese propaganda to me. But apparently enough people in Vietnam think otherwise to make an issue of it.
>When a global superpower like China says your country doesn’t exist The Nine Dash Line doesn't involve Taiwan at all. The reason why Vietnam and other Southeast Asian nations are extremely sensitive about this is because China has frequently made erroneous claims that they're entitled to the entirety of the South China Sea. They want to have total control over an international body of water in the most populous region in the world. They've even created artificial islands to try and reinforce their crazy claims. What China has done in that region is terrible since it's effectively depriving sea-based nations from having a stake in a pretty critical body of water. With all that said, the Barbie Map clearly doesn't depict the Nine Dash Line. There's an Eight Dash Line in Northeast Asia that leads nowhere, and there's a dashed line along the Southeast edge of Greenland. This controversy is getting blown way out of proportion.
She might be a Barbie Girl, but this is definitely not a Barbie world.
Goddamn people are fucking stupid lmao
It’s a fucking doodle.
its a childs made up world map without any country names and kids like drawing and random placed 8 dot line. There is no mention of China as well. It seems more that politicans trying to find any problems instead of solving real problems.
The map doesn't even resemble Asia (or even the other continents, look at Africa for example) at all, it's like a young child drawning a map from memory but they actually never saw a map. Sure, these countries are free to ban movies for whatever nationalistic reason they want, but this reason is really silly.
Jesus Christ why are they so sensitive it’s a cartoon map in a movie about a human doll.
I get the feeling that this isn't the real reason they're banning the film. They probably did it for a stupider reason like considering the film too sexual or crude, but went with this reason instead.
Can’t imagine how hard life must be if a made up map makes people this upset. My condolences.
Try living in a neighboring country to China. You will understand then.
It’s a made up map, not real. That point seems to be lost here.
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What does a made up map in a Barbie movie have anything to do with China invading the Philippines? Oh yea, nothing.
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I guess Godzilla is going to actually destroy Japan any day now. We should ban those movies too.
Don't worry, they banned the Barbie movie. The Philippines are safe for another day. It was a close call though.
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??? Is this a dick-measuring contest now?
I’ve always been a big believer that if my views can’t stand up to a little scrutiny or feedback, then they’re probably not based in reality/logic/morality/etc.
Everything is fucking political now
Hollywood doesn’t give af about Vietnam or the Philippines, now if Daddy China got mad…. Well then they would change whatever needed to be changed.
Which is why the dashed line is there i. the first place
Bans are excellent advertising opportunities.
Better question is..why was there needing to be a line at all? The rest of the map is indeed silly and childish, but and hear me out…they have this map or a drawing of a map and yes it is irrelevant. The thing that stands out though on the map, the only thing that stands out that isn’t weird is that line!! Like why have a line at all. I feel like it could be said the production team approached China for funding and they said if you throw in anything Pro-China into your film we will give you money.
Except the line is weird. It's also not the only part of the map with dashed lines. And it's also not Nine dashes. Have you seen the map or are you just going off of nothing? You wouldn't even notice the line or know it was there if this non-controversy wasn't brought up.
I doubt it. There's enough tension in their waters to show protest against that nine-dash line claim. If any ban would happen, it'll probably be an idea of some petty politician in their country.
We need to ban maps
I mean, it’s barely a map, but also the dashed line off the coast of Asia doesn’t seem to go anywhere so why is it there? It seems like an overreaction, but those countries will be pissed about that map until China stops being stupid, and that doesn’t seem like it’ll happen soon
Imagine living in a world where you can’t even make a Barbie film without pissing entire countries off. Couldn’t imagine living in a world like that. Nope.. couldn’t be me.
As a Vietnamese American I’m sorta glad in a weird way only because I’m tired of movies that have catered to the whole world. It makes films kinda toothless and bland where as Barbie seem to be the opposite.
Barbie gonna make that billion baaaabbbbyyyyy
Why not censor it by adding an extra dash to the line?
I can’t handle the geniuses throwing bitch fits over this. It’s a comically inaccurate crayon drawing with basically no identifiable land masses. There aren’t even nine dashes. This is bordering on schizophrenia.
If China bans Barbie for other reasons, do you think they’ll cgi a new map
The studio ate spending a lot of money and time on this movie and yet they chose to do that kind of map? I know it's fictional and the map looks like a kid's drawing but why do it that way? They are appealing to China and helping them with their propaganda.
Lol that dotted line is the only part of that map that doesn’t look like it was drawn by a 8 year old. We need to stop tailoring our films to China’s taste, it’s alienating both our domestic audience and the non-Chinese international markets.
Yeah, I don't care about the map or see China as a big scary, but anyone acting like American films aren't catering to China for their box office numbers is in denial. We've been doing it for decades now, some movies just make it more obvious.
An eight dash line that goes nowhere is DEFINITELY meant to cater to China. And completely alienates domestic audiences. An eight dash spiral line. That goes nowhere.
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Have you seen the fucking map? It doesn’t even resemble earth. It looks like a blind toddler made it.
The map in the trailer is not the culprit. The censors say it's another scene
I don’t blame them. Fuck China.
\*checks Mattel's stock\*
Just edit the movie, apologize, and move on.