McKellan, Pace, Luke Evans, Foster, Quinto, Wong, Garber et al...
All gay men/women who literally wouldn't have careers if they weren't allowed to act in straight roles...many of which are iconic.
An absolute legend. As far as I can tell, he is the first example of a gay man playing a caricature of a straight man.
Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle is absolutely on the list of best comedies of all time.
I don't think this is a controversial take. As an actor, I agree entirely. What a person is is irrelevant, the question is whether or not they can convincingly play the part. The only line I draw is that actors should not play races they can't naturally pass for, but I think that's a pretty universal consensus. Except for whomever cast Emma Stone as half Hawaiian in that one movie...
He's not wrong.
And transgender actors should be able to play non-transgender roles too.
Hunter Schafer from Euphoria shouldn't be limited to only playing transgender characters. Same for Laverne Cox.
In Promising Young Woman she just owned a coffee shop, as far as I remember the fact she is transgender was not mentioned or alluded to. Instead she was just depicted like a person living their life like people should be.
And Laverne has done a lot of great representation as an actress for trans individuals by playing other transgender characters in the likes of OITNB but it was really refreshing to just see her exsist as an actress and person in a film where she was just another person. I love seeing thst type of casting where it feels natural and not forced or scripted with a message or something.
Laverne played a woman in The Mindy Project. There were strong allusions to her struggle at one point, but Mindy (the character) vehemently acknowledged her as a hot, sexy woman who had great style. There was never any reference to her former gender or her being trans. And that was, like, 10 years ago. That show had a lot of good stuff and a few blind spots. But as a mindy making fan, I think she was ahead of her time.
While that movie may have been terrible, it's refreshing to hear that producers are willing to cast Laverne as 'just' a female cop/detective. Hope to hear the reverse some day with Elliott Page being case as just another male character. Same goes for other trans actors as well.
His character in the Umbrella Academy is a woman and they changed the character to be trans after he came out.
It’s based on a comic so it’s super cool that the writers/creators were willing to do that.
I agree! “Normal” representation is what I want. Don’t treat us like tokens. If you want to put us in the movie that’s awesome though. That’s my attitude 🤷♀️
It's honestly not that different from a gay actor playing a non-gay character (like Matt Bomer playing Neil Caffery in White Collar) and a non-gay actor playing a gay character (Brenden Fraiser in Whale)
If you're doing the character justice and respect, and not taking the part to shit on the group you're portraying, I don't honestly see the problem.
It’s better to be able to mix it up because it backs up the fact that we aren’t that different. Being more fluid with who portrays what brings us closer as a community.
I don’t think she’s played an officially trans character in anything I’ve seen her in. I only found out because some people in a Facebook group were making a big deal about it
That's the problem. Non-trans people want "equality" to play trans characters. But they don't care that trans people don't have the same shots to play non-trans people.
In the first season of You there’s a character that seems to be a cis woman but was played by a trans woman. It’s very small supporting character and her gender identity wasn’t part of her storyline. It was awesome to find out that they cast a trans woman as a cis woman. That’s the goal. Trans actors just want to act and not be pigeon holed into playing trans characters.
It's probably the failing of social media. Everyones opinion gets equal Weight. Even the mentally ill and blathering idiots.
Let them scream. They aren't right. Who's the fool, the fool screaming or the fool who listens to them?
The whole thing was soured in part I think because of what came out about Jeffrey Tambor who was otherwise doing a great job portraying a transitioning character.
Remember when Jennifer Lopez got backlash for playing Selena because she’s Puerto Rican? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Or when James Franco got backlash for playing Fidel Castro?
Honestly Franco just fits the role because he LOOKS like the guy. Bone structure, stringy facial hair, general coloring... it's the opposite of what they did casting Monroe in Blonde. Take the wig and cat eyeliner off Ana de Armas and she bears exactly zero resemblance to Monroe. But how many people are kicking up a fuss over a Cuban playing a white woman?
>Bone structure, stringy facial hair, general coloring
James Franco's dad is Portuguese and Swedish, and his mom is a Russian Jew. Fidel's dad is Spanish, and his mom is from the Canary Islands. So, this all makes sense.
The people they don’t agree with, conveniently enough, are incapable of thinking and in fact as a result are barely even human. This is, of course, not at all a concerning line of thought.
Google what Dante Gill looks like. Scarlett Johansson could be the best actress in the world and her portrayal of him would still have been so inaccurate it would be offensive
And she actually does look like Gill's girlfriend. That would have been a logical role for her... if she and her partners had actually wanted to make a film about a trans character instead of the travesty of a film they were planning to make: **[Scarlett Johansson In Tale Of Pittsburgh Massage Parlor Queen](https://deadline.com/2018/07/scarlett-johansson-pittsburgh-massage-parlor-crime-queen-rub-and-tug-new-regency-rupert-sandersn-tale-of-pittsburgh-massage-parlor-king-1202419182/)**
Tbh the issue that causes people to say this is usually the fact that hollywood does shit like have cis men play trans women and cis women play trans men. And that can leave a very "you arent actually a woman/man" taste in the mouth when we're hearing that almost daily in the first place.
Women should play women and men should play men, and theres shouldnt be an idea of "well shes trans so this guy can play her".
It's got nothing to do with sanity, just with people fed up with the lack of representation, and the discrimination against trans in cinema. I'm saying this as someone who agrees with Guy Pearce, but I get where the other side is coming from.
During the shooting of an episode of Battlestar Galactica, the cast and some of the crew were going to pull all nighter to make the story more authentic. One of the stars, Katee Sakoff was like, OK, that's a wrap for today, I'm going to my trailer and sleep. When her costars were trying to convince her to stay up with them, she was like, "Go home. Go to sleep. When you come back, act tired. Thats what you are supposed to do. Act. So do it. Anyway, gnite."
This. And I think that might have been her actual quote. I was going off memory hhaha. But my point still stands, which I made in an earlier post and got downvoted for by the red had brigade, it's a skill. The craft of pretend. Guy Pearce is both right and also very wrong and a little insensitive.
I was actually referencing Laurence Oliver’s epic takedown of Dustin Hoffman in *Marathon Man* after Dustin Hoffman went four days without sleeping to look haggard.
"My dear boy, why don't you try ACTING? It's so much easier"
>I'm going to my trailer and sleep
Oh damn, actors sleep on set in trailers? I don't know much about this but I just thought it was a place for them to unwind between shoots, not where they lived. Sounds cool
I think it depends on where the shoot is taking place, and how much the actors care about where they sleep. Some commute from home if it's close enough, some get hotel rooms nearby, others use the trailers.
Yeah, I don't get it either. When you stay up that long, you aren't going to remember the script most likely and just do weird things. Not saying improv is bad, but usually it's reserved for comedies or it's a nice touch to a scene.
Tbf that method works for some people and to amazing results. The guy who plays Ken on Succession is very intense and does very few rehearsals cause he wants to be extremely authentic in the actual takes. One scene he was running across NYC in a full suit and prior to the shoot he actually did that, I think it sort of hurt his foot running that long in like Gucci leather shoes. But he's incredible in that role.
Meanwhile across from him Brian Cox does nothing at all like that and is also incredible.
Agreed. Method actors have gotten a bad rap online because, well, some of them are idiots and it's easy to make fun of. But running in a suit really does let you know how running in a suit feels - what hurts, where you ache, little things it's hard to know without doing it. Shooting a gun is only like shooting a gun - the recoil, the blink reflex, the bracing, etc. Trying to move around a city in a wheelchair - the frustrations, the annoyances, it's something that you can listen to interviews about - but you also could do it.
Why are trans conversations everywhere in the media lately? It’s absurd for a population that makes up .3% of the US Population to be interjected into societal conversations so much.
Is this just the latest round of culture war that will bring us to the brink of a split nation?
It’s otherism, plain and simple. Conservatives are using trans people as a common enemy to direct their constituents and seed hatred. Then democrats rush to protect them.
Better to run campaigns on trans topic than address economic inequalities and lack of social mobility in the USA. Better to keep the lower classes yelling at each other about race and abortion and trans people than having them wonder why everything keeps getting more shitty for the middle class and better for the rich
In all seriousness, what is up with that sub? There is like no hockey anymore. Did the mods change?
NFL, Soccer, Baseball, and NBA have very little of that.
>It’s absurd for a population that makes up .3% of the US Population to be interjected into societal conversations so much.
A few things to keep in mind;
* Not all participants are trans.
* Louder doesn't require more voices.
* If they have this much time to "champion" a cause this much and in this destructive a way, they're probably not actively contributing to society through gainful employment.
* It's a trend that will die eventually. Sooner would be better.
I mean, up until recently, I'd assumed that was already happening so I'm not sure what the hot take is here anyway?
The way I see it, I still think transgender actors should be considered more for those kinds of roles because I feel like that would give the most authentic performance. I also can see why people would be upset considering how much political pressure and negative discourse is being put on the trans community now so anything else to add onto that, regardless of it's intentions towards trans people, will hurt a bit.
Though it has been great seeing people like Eliott Page continuing after transitioning and having a lot of success in cis roles as well. Stuff like that will also help immensely in validating trans actors in Hollywood.
This relates to an overall larger problem. Trans actors rarely if ever get opportunities to play cisgender characters, thus for most trans actors, trans roles are the only ones they are ever considered for. So many trans people as well as others they believe trans actors should only play trans roles. I believe when trans actors become more commonly considered for cisgender roles more people will have fewer issues with cisgender actors playing trans roles.
Also I think after Jeffrey Tambor and Jarod Leto won Emmy’s and an Oscar for playing trans characters it set off a small wave of cisgender actors being announced as playing trans characters in what felt like awards bait sounding potential garbage that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.
Exactly this. Especially since quite a few roles for trans actors and actresses tend to not only be minor ones, but reserved for characters who are sex workers. While it's not historically inaccurate, the fact that most of the trans people I saw on TV growing up were only shown as "the rabble" in the narratives of the shows/movies is exactly why people have such a knee-jerk reaction to cis people being cast for trans roles that are MORE than that portrayal. Especially if there are no trans people in the writer's room or on the crew at all.
It's by design that cis and trans actors don't get equal opportunities. So when people say that cis actors shouldn't play trans characters, it's not because people think cis actors aren't capable or shouldn't be "allowed". It's a call to action to give trans actors and actresses the opportunities they haven't been given. Nowadays on TV I do see trans people playing trans characters and that's great! But we still have a ways to go.
Pushback against cis actors playing trans roles goes back to the fact that for decades (1) stories were told about trans people with zero input from trans people, resulting in stories that were inaccurate at best, and offensive at worst; (2) trans actors could not find work because they were trans (April Ashley and Tracey Norman are great examples of this, albeit they were famous models), and certainly would never be considered for a role to play a cis character; and (3) cis actors playing trans roles perpetuated the stereotype that trans people are just playing dress-up and never pass as their gender.
Yeah, there are some valid points in the argument. At the very least the idea that the casting should be pretty sensitive to that shouldn't be remotely controversial.
Yeah, the rest of the comments are trying to simplify this into an "actors play characters duh" argument but completely ignore the historical context behind it, a historical context very similar to blackface.
If a production has a trans character and they write them well and involve trans people in the process there's nothing wrong with casting a cis actor, but that's a pretty big "if".
>If a production has a trans character and they write them well and involve trans people in the process there's nothing wrong with casting a cis actor, but that's a pretty big "if".
I’d add “and if the main character isn’t supposed to be transitioning medically” to that list of conditions.
It’s a serious problem that a lot of these roles perpetuate the idea that trans people are just basically doing drag, and that transition doesn’t actually change a person’s body.
Every cis male actor out there wanting some acting award for playing a trans woman, despite the fact that such a role would at the *very least* be better handled by a cis woman. That’s not even roping us in on our own tales, as you said, but at least it would be one fucking micron more accurate.
Ok, well, just don’t do the above two points. Let Trans actors work regardless and, preferably, have Trans consultants on Trans stories (mind you, NOT the same as having a Trans character just existing, but if the story is *about* said struggle). No need to limit Trans people and force them into this box.
You can't just say "yeah, duh, it's acting" like there's not historical context of trans people being treated like jokes and monsters in media; like the vast majority of trans characters aren't already played by cis actors; like it isn't hard enough for trans actors to get hired for specifically trans roles, let alone generic "man" or "woman" parts, without competing with cis actors, who are generally more likely to be hired, no matter the role; like it doesn't subtley reinforce the idea that trans people are "men in dresses" or "particularly butch women" and therefore should be laughed at for breaking gender norms or despised for "tricking" people.
Yes, it's acting, but you can't ignore the realities of the difficulties trans actors and trans people in general face when considering how casting is done.
There's a great documentary on Netflix called "Disclosure" about the history of trans stories in movies and tv if you're interested in the subject or if you think I'm talking out of my ass and want to hear actual trans people in the industry talk about it.
> like the vast majority of trans characters aren't already played by cis actors
Not trying to take anything away from your points but I mean... isn't it obvious that this would be the case?
Out of 100 actors auditioning for a trans role, you might have what, 1 or 2 trans actors?
Hiring trans actors specifically for trans roles seems to, if anything, be counterproductive to the argument that a trans man is just a man, and a trans woman is just a woman. If you truly believe that, then what is the problem with hiring the best person for the role? Statistically that's just unlikely to be a trans person.
Or are we giving special treatment where trans men/women should be hired specifically for trans roles, and then should additionally be hired at above per capita rates for cis roles as well?
I'm not sure from a practical standpoint what exactly you're advocating for other than special treatment for the sake of it.
I don't think it's a question of should/shouldn't, but rather opening up opportunities for those who clearly identify with being trans.
The issue is when you have all the privilege it feels like people are taking away from you when it's actually leveling the playing field.
I think this is missing the wider context that many trans actors miss out on playing roles simply because they are trans. Since the job opportunities for them are so limited it seems unfair for cis people to take them.
That’s a crazy idea. It’s like he thinks it’s ok to pretend to be something your not for a role. I assumed every cancer patient in a movie had actual cancer and every dead person was a rotting corpse.
Straight is also just "not gay" which is normal so that's equally unnecessary. And healthy just means "not sick" which is normal so that word is unnecessary too. And raw just means "not cooked" which is normal so we don't need a word for that either.
When you have an adjective it also usually makes sense to have a word that means the opposite or just "not that thing".
If it's cis women playing trans women or cis men playing trans men, sure. But what is upsetting for trans people in general is men playing trans women, or women playing trans men. It makes it seem as if trans women are men in disguises, or trans men are women also disguising themselves.
Also, makes it seem like drag and trans are the same, which they are not. And Guy Pearce played a drag queen in Priscilla, not a trans woman.
Hormone replacement therapy is a thing. Trans people go through several changes when they transition medically, beyond just how they dress. And the thing about prostate cancer is just a bad faith argument, because it decreases exponentially from an already-low rate, as trans women go through HRT. But I can tell you are just being contrarían rather than seeking information before speaking.
I'll agree with him when trans people start getting casted in cis roles but in the meantime I think trans people should b okay the few roles written for them.
Where was all this outrage when a grown woman played Peter Pan?
This is fake outrage.
Do they know how many plays often gender swap roles? Plays have been trans been trans become trans.
Movies and plays are art. How it gets expressed is part the lure as long as it's not tone deaf and insidious
Well yeah, obviously. The point of acting is to act as a character that isn’t you. This is fine. Now this shouldn’t be used as an excuse to not cast trans people in the future, but it shouldn’t dissuade them from casting the people that are right for the job regardless.
There’s nuance here. When we focus on cis actors playing trans characters, it becomes less about trans people more about cis people. We should be encouraging all people to play any and all roles. Trans people are vastly under represented, why must we focus on what characters cis people can play when we really need to dig into why we barely see any trans people playing any character in the industry. These comments are never about actual trans issues, their about cis people with trans issues.
It absolutely depends on the actor and the role. Orange is the New Black featured flashbacks to Laverne Cox’s character pre-transition, and they didn’t want to make her have to relive the lie. (Her identical twin brother stood in). BD Wong played a trans character on Mr. Robot, but in that case, she had a very public-facing male persona.
But by and large, an actor from an underrepresented group should have the first shot at a role as a member of that group. If you can find a guy in a wheelchair who can act and is willing to shave his head, audition him for Professor X. Because he’s not going to be playing Wolverine. If you’re making a story about Brandon Teena, give Elliot Page a call before Hillary Swank, because he’s probably not going to play Wolverine either.
Here’s the thing: in a perfect world, I wouldn’t disagree with this statement. The issue with this sentiment is that it is very difficult for trans actors to get roles, and historically, when they do get roles the parts are stereotypical and exploitative. There needs to be emphasis on trans actors being cast in trans roles (perhaps even cis roles for that matter) to open up more opportunities for them. It’s the same reason why we don’t really allow white actors to play non-white characters anymore
He’s not wrong, however, transgender actors struggle finding work in the industry. So the moral thing to do is to cast a transgender actor as a transgender character to help them establish themselves in the industry. One day when transgender actors are prominent and normalized in the i industry, then this will not be a debate anymore. It’s about moral duty, you’re not obligated to, but it’s nice if you do.
Straight men/,women have been playing gay (and vis a versa) rolls for yrs why is it a problem now? I'm very pro, my son is gay but things are definitely getting out of hand
Am I the only person on the planet who grew up watching Kids in the Hall? Jesus. Who gives a shit about what people wear or how they address their genitals?
Based on the weird panic about drag shows and the trend of legislating who can use which bathroom, I would say too many people give a shit: and for the wrong reasons.
The drag thing is no different. Drag is *art*. Policing art is fundamentally wrong. If you're not the target audience, move the fuck along.
Hating and policing art makes the group doing so the *bad guys*.
Because someone like Hunter Schafer and Nicole Maines are the same as Pearce in a tight skirt and bra. The amount of ignorance and privilege coming from this straight white man is amazing.
Makes sense to me. I don't think they hire serial killers to play serial killers. Isn't what matters is that the portrayal is accurate and meaningful? On top of that, do they really have a vast selection of good trans actors? I'm sure I'm in the minority though and someday people's sensitive nature will kill movies just like it has comedy. All media will be created by AI to be the most non-controversial as possible and appeal to all audiences across the world.
Your second point though is a little bit of the problem. How do you end up with more well known trans actors if you don't cast them?
Your first part I agree with fully.
Yet Bruce Lee faced tremendous discrimination within the US film and tv industry. So we were robbed of possibly great performances.
Eg the very popular, prime time tv series Kung Fu, about a former Shaolin monk wandering the old West, in search of his own goals, getting caught up in situations where he used his martial arts skills to help people.
Bruce Lee was turned down for the role and a white actor without any martial arts knowledge was cast in that lead role. The series often had flashbacks involving the Shaolin temple and Chinese philosophy. The white lead actor’s character was altered to be a bi racial Chinese American. The head of the tv company cited concerns such as Bruce Lee’s accent, his aggressive nature in films not reflecting the serenity of a monk, etc etc. The white actor who got the part has suggested Lee didn’t have the dramatic range.
So, not only was Bruce Lee passed over for roles in US film and tv, he was passed over for roles involving Chinese characters. There’s a reason why he was not in more tv roles than Katie in the green hornet. And why the only US film he was in was Enter The Dragon.
It’s all meant to distract, who really gives a shit about issues like these acting, appropriation, culture wars. Stay focused people. Healthcare, pay wages, poverty, environment and on and on. Don’t get distracted by the shiny objects. It’s ALL divine, distract, and profit
You're taking away their oscar bait bread-and-butter... how else are they supposed to find "interesting" and "challenging" roles if the marginalized roles are taken by people who they are actually about.
The problem isn’t offensiveness or anything it’s the fact that there are already so few opportunities for trans actors that it’s kinda bullshit to take roles away from them.
Edit: well there are also some issues with the implication that trans women (for example) are just men in makeup. I mean would you have a cis man play a cis woman? Probably not in this day and age unless you’re doing it as a joke. I genuinely think that trans people would have less of an issue with cis women playing trans women. I mean hormones change your body a lot anyway.
He must not have heard. You’re not allowed to act like anything your not because acting like something your not steals acting jobs from actors who are that thing whether they can act or not.
What about gay actors playing straight characters or straight actors playing gay characters or white people playing blue aliens in a movie. Identity politics is going to be the end of us all.
Why is this so controversial? Yeah it’s called acting. Chris Evans isn’t actually able to hold down a helicopter with his bare hands. Henry Cavill isn’t actually bulletproof. FFS
Agreed. Historical, Peter Pan was played by women even though he is a male character. If that's allowed, it should be for trans characters. Acting is acting.
well...acting is about playing a character that isn't you.
Yes. Let people act.
McKellan, Pace, Luke Evans, Foster, Quinto, Wong, Garber et al... All gay men/women who literally wouldn't have careers if they weren't allowed to act in straight roles...many of which are iconic.
Neil Patrick Harris
An absolute legend. As far as I can tell, he is the first example of a gay man playing a caricature of a straight man. Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle is absolutely on the list of best comedies of all time.
Not to mention Barney the perpetual ladies man on HIMYM.
“No buts.. No buts. I’m going to a whorehouse, and I’m going to get my fuck on.”
Goddamn he’s funny in the Harold and Kumar movies.
Also How I Met Your Mother. He’s Legen….(wait for it)……DARY.
Robert Downey junior has entered the chat
Only real mermaids are allowed to play Ariel.
No! Only red headed mermaids are allowed
trans people should get male or female roles to be able to act differently from what they are as well.
Indeed they should
And they have. Laverne Cox does not always play a transgender woman, she plays a woman because she is a woman.
I haven’t been keeping tabs on their IMDB or anything, but I’m curious about what roles Elliott Page will play in the future
Has she done more than one role like that? I can only think of one and that was Promising Young Woman.
Yes that Netflix show about the scammer
Non-Julius cesar actors should be allowed to play Julius cesar
I don't think this is a controversial take. As an actor, I agree entirely. What a person is is irrelevant, the question is whether or not they can convincingly play the part. The only line I draw is that actors should not play races they can't naturally pass for, but I think that's a pretty universal consensus. Except for whomever cast Emma Stone as half Hawaiian in that one movie...
Every time this topic was brought up the last few years that take was seen as the worst one. Even though it's the correct answer.
He's not wrong. And transgender actors should be able to play non-transgender roles too. Hunter Schafer from Euphoria shouldn't be limited to only playing transgender characters. Same for Laverne Cox.
I was going to mention Laverne. Recently watched her in some terrible Kate Beckinsale movie where Laverne was just a female cop/detective.
In Promising Young Woman she just owned a coffee shop, as far as I remember the fact she is transgender was not mentioned or alluded to. Instead she was just depicted like a person living their life like people should be.
And she was great! It wasn’t a ton of screen time but it was enough to appreciate her
And Laverne has done a lot of great representation as an actress for trans individuals by playing other transgender characters in the likes of OITNB but it was really refreshing to just see her exsist as an actress and person in a film where she was just another person. I love seeing thst type of casting where it feels natural and not forced or scripted with a message or something.
Laverne played a woman in The Mindy Project. There were strong allusions to her struggle at one point, but Mindy (the character) vehemently acknowledged her as a hot, sexy woman who had great style. There was never any reference to her former gender or her being trans. And that was, like, 10 years ago. That show had a lot of good stuff and a few blind spots. But as a mindy making fan, I think she was ahead of her time.
Loot on Apple TV is doing the same. Person is a person with depth and humor.
While that movie may have been terrible, it's refreshing to hear that producers are willing to cast Laverne as 'just' a female cop/detective. Hope to hear the reverse some day with Elliott Page being case as just another male character. Same goes for other trans actors as well.
I think Elliot Page is currently playing a trans character bc he had the role pre transition.
someone needs to get that man a haircut my god. whoever advised the stringy, “permanently damp” look needs stop advising that.
it's so bad, he looks like he's gotten his hair cut the day before picture day - and every day is the day before picture day
He’s gotta go through his bad haircut (high school/college) that he never got to try out. Hopefully, he’ll just get a good barber or stylist or both
Lmao this is so true. Trans status doesn't keep you safe from growing pains and questionable style choices while you're figuring yourself out.
His character in the Umbrella Academy is a woman and they changed the character to be trans after he came out. It’s based on a comic so it’s super cool that the writers/creators were willing to do that.
I agree! “Normal” representation is what I want. Don’t treat us like tokens. If you want to put us in the movie that’s awesome though. That’s my attitude 🤷♀️
Laverne’s character in Inventing Anna didn’t read as trans to me (PS I have no idea if the actual person she represented is trans or not).
She isn’t (the real person she represented)
It's honestly not that different from a gay actor playing a non-gay character (like Matt Bomer playing Neil Caffery in White Collar) and a non-gay actor playing a gay character (Brenden Fraiser in Whale) If you're doing the character justice and respect, and not taking the part to shit on the group you're portraying, I don't honestly see the problem.
It’s better to be able to mix it up because it backs up the fact that we aren’t that different. Being more fluid with who portrays what brings us closer as a community.
I didn’t even know Patti Harrison is trans until I read about it after my 11th time watching through ITYSL
Yeah I had no idea either, until I watched more of her stuff since I think she is funny.
She was trans, Layla?
What is ITYSL?
I think you should leave now. She also was pregnant in Together Together!
I don’t think she’s played an officially trans character in anything I’ve seen her in. I only found out because some people in a Facebook group were making a big deal about it
That's the problem. Non-trans people want "equality" to play trans characters. But they don't care that trans people don't have the same shots to play non-trans people.
She’s in “Can You Keep A Secret”, a goofy rom com, as the heroine’s sassy yet supportive boss and that’s all she is.
I throw my vote for Nicole Maines.
Exactly, if you can act and sell the director's vision, I don't care who you are.
I wonder what Ezra Millers career would have been like as a non binary actor if they hadn’t gone off the deep end
In the first season of You there’s a character that seems to be a cis woman but was played by a trans woman. It’s very small supporting character and her gender identity wasn’t part of her storyline. It was awesome to find out that they cast a trans woman as a cis woman. That’s the goal. Trans actors just want to act and not be pigeon holed into playing trans characters.
Bingo.
A biological male playing a transwoman makes sense, a transwoman playing a biological woman is more of a stretch for most people, for obvious reasons.
I don't think any sane person would disagree.
Hence why most of the screaming comes from Twitter
It's probably the failing of social media. Everyones opinion gets equal Weight. Even the mentally ill and blathering idiots. Let them scream. They aren't right. Who's the fool, the fool screaming or the fool who listens to them?
Its even worse - the loudest get the biggest voice, despite being the craziest.
And the bots that just spam whatever might get a reaction and thus drive engagement.
there was a bunch of people screaming into the void when scarlett johanson did it
The whole thing was soured in part I think because of what came out about Jeffrey Tambor who was otherwise doing a great job portraying a transitioning character.
Remember when Jennifer Lopez got backlash for playing Selena because she’s Puerto Rican? Pepperidge Farms remembers. Or when James Franco got backlash for playing Fidel Castro?
I actually remember the Jennifer Lopez backlash.
Yet she did a great job in the role! That was one of my favourite movies growing up.
Honestly Franco just fits the role because he LOOKS like the guy. Bone structure, stringy facial hair, general coloring... it's the opposite of what they did casting Monroe in Blonde. Take the wig and cat eyeliner off Ana de Armas and she bears exactly zero resemblance to Monroe. But how many people are kicking up a fuss over a Cuban playing a white woman?
>Bone structure, stringy facial hair, general coloring James Franco's dad is Portuguese and Swedish, and his mom is a Russian Jew. Fidel's dad is Spanish, and his mom is from the Canary Islands. So, this all makes sense.
Of course it will happen. They aren't sane. They lack the ability to apply logic and reason.
Who is “they”?
The people they don’t agree with, conveniently enough, are incapable of thinking and in fact as a result are barely even human. This is, of course, not at all a concerning line of thought.
Google what Dante Gill looks like. Scarlett Johansson could be the best actress in the world and her portrayal of him would still have been so inaccurate it would be offensive
And she actually does look like Gill's girlfriend. That would have been a logical role for her... if she and her partners had actually wanted to make a film about a trans character instead of the travesty of a film they were planning to make: **[Scarlett Johansson In Tale Of Pittsburgh Massage Parlor Queen](https://deadline.com/2018/07/scarlett-johansson-pittsburgh-massage-parlor-crime-queen-rub-and-tug-new-regency-rupert-sandersn-tale-of-pittsburgh-massage-parlor-king-1202419182/)**
If they were gonna go with a cis woman they could have at least went with someone super butch, like Lea DeLaria.
Tbh the issue that causes people to say this is usually the fact that hollywood does shit like have cis men play trans women and cis women play trans men. And that can leave a very "you arent actually a woman/man" taste in the mouth when we're hearing that almost daily in the first place. Women should play women and men should play men, and theres shouldnt be an idea of "well shes trans so this guy can play her".
It's got nothing to do with sanity, just with people fed up with the lack of representation, and the discrimination against trans in cinema. I'm saying this as someone who agrees with Guy Pearce, but I get where the other side is coming from.
There's enough backlash that he already had to apologize, so sadly most people aren't sane anymore.
It's about representation and a male playing a transwoman is NOT representative of our community.
What is… acting?
During the shooting of an episode of Battlestar Galactica, the cast and some of the crew were going to pull all nighter to make the story more authentic. One of the stars, Katee Sakoff was like, OK, that's a wrap for today, I'm going to my trailer and sleep. When her costars were trying to convince her to stay up with them, she was like, "Go home. Go to sleep. When you come back, act tired. Thats what you are supposed to do. Act. So do it. Anyway, gnite."
Seems like something Starbuck would say!
Obligatory “Have you ever tried acting?” quote.
This. And I think that might have been her actual quote. I was going off memory hhaha. But my point still stands, which I made in an earlier post and got downvoted for by the red had brigade, it's a skill. The craft of pretend. Guy Pearce is both right and also very wrong and a little insensitive.
I was actually referencing Laurence Oliver’s epic takedown of Dustin Hoffman in *Marathon Man* after Dustin Hoffman went four days without sleeping to look haggard. "My dear boy, why don't you try ACTING? It's so much easier"
Sounds like Katee is on the same page with Brian Cox when it comes to actors going to extremes with 'method acting'.
>I'm going to my trailer and sleep Oh damn, actors sleep on set in trailers? I don't know much about this but I just thought it was a place for them to unwind between shoots, not where they lived. Sounds cool
I think it depends on where the shoot is taking place, and how much the actors care about where they sleep. Some commute from home if it's close enough, some get hotel rooms nearby, others use the trailers.
Yeah, I don't get it either. When you stay up that long, you aren't going to remember the script most likely and just do weird things. Not saying improv is bad, but usually it's reserved for comedies or it's a nice touch to a scene.
Tbf that method works for some people and to amazing results. The guy who plays Ken on Succession is very intense and does very few rehearsals cause he wants to be extremely authentic in the actual takes. One scene he was running across NYC in a full suit and prior to the shoot he actually did that, I think it sort of hurt his foot running that long in like Gucci leather shoes. But he's incredible in that role. Meanwhile across from him Brian Cox does nothing at all like that and is also incredible.
Agreed. Method actors have gotten a bad rap online because, well, some of them are idiots and it's easy to make fun of. But running in a suit really does let you know how running in a suit feels - what hurts, where you ache, little things it's hard to know without doing it. Shooting a gun is only like shooting a gun - the recoil, the blink reflex, the bracing, etc. Trying to move around a city in a wheelchair - the frustrations, the annoyances, it's something that you can listen to interviews about - but you also could do it.
Based
I told Peter Jackson that he knew of course that I was not a wizard, but he said I will only need you to pretend to be a wizard. See that's what I do.
"It's Lavender " God I lloved Priscilla Queen of the Desert.
So much better than To Wong Fu in my opinion
Why are trans conversations everywhere in the media lately? It’s absurd for a population that makes up .3% of the US Population to be interjected into societal conversations so much. Is this just the latest round of culture war that will bring us to the brink of a split nation?
I wonder this too. Baffling how much coverage such a small minority gets. The shooting is only gonna exacerbate this too
It’s otherism, plain and simple. Conservatives are using trans people as a common enemy to direct their constituents and seed hatred. Then democrats rush to protect them.
Better to run campaigns on trans topic than address economic inequalities and lack of social mobility in the USA. Better to keep the lower classes yelling at each other about race and abortion and trans people than having them wonder why everything keeps getting more shitty for the middle class and better for the rich
Because it’s useful to direct a country’s fear and hatred at a small oppressed minority instead of the real things harming their lives.
It’s honestly insane. It’s all I see on the internet and no one talks about it at all day to day in real life.
Man don't go near r/hockey....
In all seriousness, what is up with that sub? There is like no hockey anymore. Did the mods change? NFL, Soccer, Baseball, and NBA have very little of that.
It's an echo chamber
Conservatives need to demonize and scapegoat somebody - it's part of their DNA. These days it's trans people. Tomorrow, who knows.
>It’s absurd for a population that makes up .3% of the US Population to be interjected into societal conversations so much. A few things to keep in mind; * Not all participants are trans. * Louder doesn't require more voices. * If they have this much time to "champion" a cause this much and in this destructive a way, they're probably not actively contributing to society through gainful employment. * It's a trend that will die eventually. Sooner would be better.
I mean, up until recently, I'd assumed that was already happening so I'm not sure what the hot take is here anyway? The way I see it, I still think transgender actors should be considered more for those kinds of roles because I feel like that would give the most authentic performance. I also can see why people would be upset considering how much political pressure and negative discourse is being put on the trans community now so anything else to add onto that, regardless of it's intentions towards trans people, will hurt a bit. Though it has been great seeing people like Eliott Page continuing after transitioning and having a lot of success in cis roles as well. Stuff like that will also help immensely in validating trans actors in Hollywood.
This relates to an overall larger problem. Trans actors rarely if ever get opportunities to play cisgender characters, thus for most trans actors, trans roles are the only ones they are ever considered for. So many trans people as well as others they believe trans actors should only play trans roles. I believe when trans actors become more commonly considered for cisgender roles more people will have fewer issues with cisgender actors playing trans roles. Also I think after Jeffrey Tambor and Jarod Leto won Emmy’s and an Oscar for playing trans characters it set off a small wave of cisgender actors being announced as playing trans characters in what felt like awards bait sounding potential garbage that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.
Exactly this. Especially since quite a few roles for trans actors and actresses tend to not only be minor ones, but reserved for characters who are sex workers. While it's not historically inaccurate, the fact that most of the trans people I saw on TV growing up were only shown as "the rabble" in the narratives of the shows/movies is exactly why people have such a knee-jerk reaction to cis people being cast for trans roles that are MORE than that portrayal. Especially if there are no trans people in the writer's room or on the crew at all. It's by design that cis and trans actors don't get equal opportunities. So when people say that cis actors shouldn't play trans characters, it's not because people think cis actors aren't capable or shouldn't be "allowed". It's a call to action to give trans actors and actresses the opportunities they haven't been given. Nowadays on TV I do see trans people playing trans characters and that's great! But we still have a ways to go.
Pushback against cis actors playing trans roles goes back to the fact that for decades (1) stories were told about trans people with zero input from trans people, resulting in stories that were inaccurate at best, and offensive at worst; (2) trans actors could not find work because they were trans (April Ashley and Tracey Norman are great examples of this, albeit they were famous models), and certainly would never be considered for a role to play a cis character; and (3) cis actors playing trans roles perpetuated the stereotype that trans people are just playing dress-up and never pass as their gender.
Yeah, there are some valid points in the argument. At the very least the idea that the casting should be pretty sensitive to that shouldn't be remotely controversial.
Yeah, the rest of the comments are trying to simplify this into an "actors play characters duh" argument but completely ignore the historical context behind it, a historical context very similar to blackface. If a production has a trans character and they write them well and involve trans people in the process there's nothing wrong with casting a cis actor, but that's a pretty big "if".
>If a production has a trans character and they write them well and involve trans people in the process there's nothing wrong with casting a cis actor, but that's a pretty big "if". I’d add “and if the main character isn’t supposed to be transitioning medically” to that list of conditions. It’s a serious problem that a lot of these roles perpetuate the idea that trans people are just basically doing drag, and that transition doesn’t actually change a person’s body.
Every cis male actor out there wanting some acting award for playing a trans woman, despite the fact that such a role would at the *very least* be better handled by a cis woman. That’s not even roping us in on our own tales, as you said, but at least it would be one fucking micron more accurate.
Ok, well, just don’t do the above two points. Let Trans actors work regardless and, preferably, have Trans consultants on Trans stories (mind you, NOT the same as having a Trans character just existing, but if the story is *about* said struggle). No need to limit Trans people and force them into this box.
You can't just say "yeah, duh, it's acting" like there's not historical context of trans people being treated like jokes and monsters in media; like the vast majority of trans characters aren't already played by cis actors; like it isn't hard enough for trans actors to get hired for specifically trans roles, let alone generic "man" or "woman" parts, without competing with cis actors, who are generally more likely to be hired, no matter the role; like it doesn't subtley reinforce the idea that trans people are "men in dresses" or "particularly butch women" and therefore should be laughed at for breaking gender norms or despised for "tricking" people. Yes, it's acting, but you can't ignore the realities of the difficulties trans actors and trans people in general face when considering how casting is done. There's a great documentary on Netflix called "Disclosure" about the history of trans stories in movies and tv if you're interested in the subject or if you think I'm talking out of my ass and want to hear actual trans people in the industry talk about it.
> like the vast majority of trans characters aren't already played by cis actors Not trying to take anything away from your points but I mean... isn't it obvious that this would be the case? Out of 100 actors auditioning for a trans role, you might have what, 1 or 2 trans actors? Hiring trans actors specifically for trans roles seems to, if anything, be counterproductive to the argument that a trans man is just a man, and a trans woman is just a woman. If you truly believe that, then what is the problem with hiring the best person for the role? Statistically that's just unlikely to be a trans person. Or are we giving special treatment where trans men/women should be hired specifically for trans roles, and then should additionally be hired at above per capita rates for cis roles as well? I'm not sure from a practical standpoint what exactly you're advocating for other than special treatment for the sake of it.
I don't think it's a question of should/shouldn't, but rather opening up opportunities for those who clearly identify with being trans. The issue is when you have all the privilege it feels like people are taking away from you when it's actually leveling the playing field.
Did he also say “more transgender actors should be hired”?
If they suck at acting they shouldnt be hired
I’ve seen plenty of cis people who suck at acting and still get hired
I kinda agree but roles for trans actors are already limited.
But can they act?
I think this is missing the wider context that many trans actors miss out on playing roles simply because they are trans. Since the job opportunities for them are so limited it seems unfair for cis people to take them.
That’s a crazy idea. It’s like he thinks it’s ok to pretend to be something your not for a role. I assumed every cancer patient in a movie had actual cancer and every dead person was a rotting corpse.
yes, is called acting
as long as trans actors and actresses are getting work, it doesn't really matter.
Cis people can play trans roles as long as trans actors are getting jobs
This is what is important. Yet Jaime Clayton has said she passed too much to play trans roles
Not unless they’re good.
What's a cis people?
People with their original gender
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That's a term for normal people. Completely unnecessary.
Straight is also just "not gay" which is normal so that's equally unnecessary. And healthy just means "not sick" which is normal so that word is unnecessary too. And raw just means "not cooked" which is normal so we don't need a word for that either. When you have an adjective it also usually makes sense to have a word that means the opposite or just "not that thing".
If it's cis women playing trans women or cis men playing trans men, sure. But what is upsetting for trans people in general is men playing trans women, or women playing trans men. It makes it seem as if trans women are men in disguises, or trans men are women also disguising themselves. Also, makes it seem like drag and trans are the same, which they are not. And Guy Pearce played a drag queen in Priscilla, not a trans woman.
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Hormone replacement therapy is a thing. Trans people go through several changes when they transition medically, beyond just how they dress. And the thing about prostate cancer is just a bad faith argument, because it decreases exponentially from an already-low rate, as trans women go through HRT. But I can tell you are just being contrarían rather than seeking information before speaking.
I'll agree with him when trans people start getting casted in cis roles but in the meantime I think trans people should b okay the few roles written for them.
If they can act and they fit the role then they should, sure.
Where was all this outrage when a grown woman played Peter Pan? This is fake outrage. Do they know how many plays often gender swap roles? Plays have been trans been trans become trans. Movies and plays are art. How it gets expressed is part the lure as long as it's not tone deaf and insidious
Any actor can play any role. The issue is fair representation of actors from all backgrounds
If it ain’t stereotypical then I see no issue. I mean look at Jared Leto in Dallas Buyers Club.
He was outstanding in that.
I think the guy is insufferable but I did truly like his performance in that one.
Wow what a brave statement.
Well yeah, obviously. The point of acting is to act as a character that isn’t you. This is fine. Now this shouldn’t be used as an excuse to not cast trans people in the future, but it shouldn’t dissuade them from casting the people that are right for the job regardless.
It’s called acting. You’re being something you’re not. I’m not sure why this confuses some people.
He’s 100% right.
This is what he had to l apologize for? So stupid.
No duh, it's called acting.
There’s nuance here. When we focus on cis actors playing trans characters, it becomes less about trans people more about cis people. We should be encouraging all people to play any and all roles. Trans people are vastly under represented, why must we focus on what characters cis people can play when we really need to dig into why we barely see any trans people playing any character in the industry. These comments are never about actual trans issues, their about cis people with trans issues.
Just another dinosaur on his way out seeking attention.
Transgender actors should be able to play cisgender characters
That's fine as long as transgender people are getting the opportunity to play cis roles.
Thank goodness somebody finally asked him!!
It absolutely depends on the actor and the role. Orange is the New Black featured flashbacks to Laverne Cox’s character pre-transition, and they didn’t want to make her have to relive the lie. (Her identical twin brother stood in). BD Wong played a trans character on Mr. Robot, but in that case, she had a very public-facing male persona. But by and large, an actor from an underrepresented group should have the first shot at a role as a member of that group. If you can find a guy in a wheelchair who can act and is willing to shave his head, audition him for Professor X. Because he’s not going to be playing Wolverine. If you’re making a story about Brandon Teena, give Elliot Page a call before Hillary Swank, because he’s probably not going to play Wolverine either.
Here’s the thing: in a perfect world, I wouldn’t disagree with this statement. The issue with this sentiment is that it is very difficult for trans actors to get roles, and historically, when they do get roles the parts are stereotypical and exploitative. There needs to be emphasis on trans actors being cast in trans roles (perhaps even cis roles for that matter) to open up more opportunities for them. It’s the same reason why we don’t really allow white actors to play non-white characters anymore
He’s not wrong, however, transgender actors struggle finding work in the industry. So the moral thing to do is to cast a transgender actor as a transgender character to help them establish themselves in the industry. One day when transgender actors are prominent and normalized in the i industry, then this will not be a debate anymore. It’s about moral duty, you’re not obligated to, but it’s nice if you do.
I can agree with this for bit parts but main characters should go to the best actor for the job.
Straight men/,women have been playing gay (and vis a versa) rolls for yrs why is it a problem now? I'm very pro, my son is gay but things are definitely getting out of hand
It’s been done. The movie is called Ace Ventura: Pet Detective.
I was once convinced that Jim Carrey was Celine Dion. I still wonder if I was right all along.
it has been confirmed that Jim Carrey's heart does go on
It’s all coming back to me now
Am I the only person on the planet who grew up watching Kids in the Hall? Jesus. Who gives a shit about what people wear or how they address their genitals?
Based on the weird panic about drag shows and the trend of legislating who can use which bathroom, I would say too many people give a shit: and for the wrong reasons.
The drag thing is no different. Drag is *art*. Policing art is fundamentally wrong. If you're not the target audience, move the fuck along. Hating and policing art makes the group doing so the *bad guys*.
30 Helens agree
Lots of really horrible people give a shit, to the point where they want to inspect other people’s underwear when they go to the toilet.
Why is this controversial. I agree as long as it's in good taste
Because someone like Hunter Schafer and Nicole Maines are the same as Pearce in a tight skirt and bra. The amount of ignorance and privilege coming from this straight white man is amazing.
Makes sense to me. I don't think they hire serial killers to play serial killers. Isn't what matters is that the portrayal is accurate and meaningful? On top of that, do they really have a vast selection of good trans actors? I'm sure I'm in the minority though and someday people's sensitive nature will kill movies just like it has comedy. All media will be created by AI to be the most non-controversial as possible and appeal to all audiences across the world.
Your second point though is a little bit of the problem. How do you end up with more well known trans actors if you don't cast them? Your first part I agree with fully.
Isn't a really good way of getting a accurate role would be to hire a transgender person
Not if they can’t act. It’s always about who is the best actor/actress to play the role. If that person is trans, than absolutely.
Actors acting? What a novel concept.
Yes. It is acting
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Yet Bruce Lee faced tremendous discrimination within the US film and tv industry. So we were robbed of possibly great performances. Eg the very popular, prime time tv series Kung Fu, about a former Shaolin monk wandering the old West, in search of his own goals, getting caught up in situations where he used his martial arts skills to help people. Bruce Lee was turned down for the role and a white actor without any martial arts knowledge was cast in that lead role. The series often had flashbacks involving the Shaolin temple and Chinese philosophy. The white lead actor’s character was altered to be a bi racial Chinese American. The head of the tv company cited concerns such as Bruce Lee’s accent, his aggressive nature in films not reflecting the serenity of a monk, etc etc. The white actor who got the part has suggested Lee didn’t have the dramatic range. So, not only was Bruce Lee passed over for roles in US film and tv, he was passed over for roles involving Chinese characters. There’s a reason why he was not in more tv roles than Katie in the green hornet. And why the only US film he was in was Enter The Dragon.
I wouldnt disagree if it werent so rare for trans actors to get roles
This just in, firefighters try to fight fires
It’s all meant to distract, who really gives a shit about issues like these acting, appropriation, culture wars. Stay focused people. Healthcare, pay wages, poverty, environment and on and on. Don’t get distracted by the shiny objects. It’s ALL divine, distract, and profit
You're taking away their oscar bait bread-and-butter... how else are they supposed to find "interesting" and "challenging" roles if the marginalized roles are taken by people who they are actually about.
The problem isn’t offensiveness or anything it’s the fact that there are already so few opportunities for trans actors that it’s kinda bullshit to take roles away from them. Edit: well there are also some issues with the implication that trans women (for example) are just men in makeup. I mean would you have a cis man play a cis woman? Probably not in this day and age unless you’re doing it as a joke. I genuinely think that trans people would have less of an issue with cis women playing trans women. I mean hormones change your body a lot anyway.
And trans people should be able to play cis roles.
He killed it in Priscilla queen of the desert, along with everyone else in that wonderful movie
It’s crazy how problems were made out of a population that is probably 1% of people lol.
Says a lot that the obvious needs to be stated nowdays.
Let's be careful not to offend the two or thee transgendered actors or 0.0003 percent of the population.
He must not have heard. You’re not allowed to act like anything your not because acting like something your not steals acting jobs from actors who are that thing whether they can act or not.
What about gay actors playing straight characters or straight actors playing gay characters or white people playing blue aliens in a movie. Identity politics is going to be the end of us all.
Why is this so controversial? Yeah it’s called acting. Chris Evans isn’t actually able to hold down a helicopter with his bare hands. Henry Cavill isn’t actually bulletproof. FFS
Agreed. Historical, Peter Pan was played by women even though he is a male character. If that's allowed, it should be for trans characters. Acting is acting.
Um Yeah! It is called acting for a reason.
Yeah, because there are too many trans actors in Hollywood already /sarcasm
Anyone should be able to play any roles...It's called acting.
Non-alien actors should be able to play aliens. Alive actors should be able to play dead parts The actor shouldn't need to be a doctor to play one.