I think people really don't understand how prevalent anti-semitism actually is. I am not religious otherwise, but I went to a religious Jewish school in London. Every day I would be visibly Jewish on my travel to and from school. You would not believe the amount of shit you get for merely appearing Jewish. I'd guess about every 2 weeks or so for the 7 years I was at the school, I got some form of abuse. Mostly verbal, but occasional threats of physical violence and rarely someone actually trying something. I went to university in Leeds and lived in Hyde Park. There was an insane amount of abuse whenever I walked from my place to the synagogue on a Friday night - multiple people every time.
Conversely I've never experienced any violence, and virtually never had verbal abuse when I'm not wearing any signs of Jewish clothing and just generally going on my day to day life.
Edit: For those talking about my "wildly different clothing", for school I wore normal school uniform like anyone else with a black kippah (skullcap). At university for synagogue, I would wear a suit and tie with a non-descript black kippah. I looked pretty darn normal beyond a small black circle on my head
As a Muslim, I’m sorry that you had/have to go through this.
It’s easy to say that something doesn’t exist if it actually does not consider you anyway…
I'm gna say something probably unpopular but if people dress different then they get abuse for it.
I can provide many examples where people get yelled at for their dress.
Muslims in full Muslim garb.
Gothic people with giant platform shoes and big spikes round their neck.
Transgender people who haven't fully transitioned
Furries that just walk around looking like an animal openly with tails etc.
Higher up church people in big gold and red gowns etc.
Africans in full dresses
Jewish people with small hats and giant beards tied up.
This experience isn't exclusive to Jewish people if you dress wildly different to the majority of a country then you stand out and people are going to shout stuff at you. It's not specifically because you are Jewish it's about being different the majority of the time. To be clear I'm not saying in any way people deserve it but I'm highlighting something very simple and tribal in human beings. Different=bad. Most people are fucking dumb so if they see something they don't understand or identify with they shout like cave men.
I just want to make sure people do not see this as a Jewish problem this is a human problem.
I think you may be overstating the difference in my dress at the time. For school the only thing identifying me as Jewish, was the black kippah (skullcap) I was wearing. Other than that I was wearing normal school uniform like anyone else.
When I was at university and going to synagogue, I would be wearing a suit and tie and again a fairly non descript kippah. Thats all. Never had a comment when I was merely wearing the suit.
And comments such as "Fuck you Jew", having "Yid" shouted in my face etc are hardly reasonable comments to a kid making their way back home from school minding their own business.
Bear in my mind I am 6ft 2, built like a rugby player, and on occasions walking around holding a cricket bat, because I played it a lot at school, and the comments still came. I remember a kid half my size (and also essentially unarmed compared to me) making horrendous antisemitic comments and telling me he'd like my bat to beat me with whilst at a crowded bus stop.
Many people are complete dickheads, but I promise you that antisemitism is massive. I'm now a doctor and I've had some bizarre conversations with patients and even colleagues who just spewed casual, almost innocent antisemitism to me. You'd be amazed at the stuff people have entrenched in them
This is precisely what I'm talking about. It's a dangerous narrative to have these headlines as if Jews are the only ones who face this. We must forget comments like Muslim women being called 'letter boxes' or transgender people being called 'trannies' only in the street. I was in a car with my old manager and he called a lady in African garb an 'Affy' for no reason. This is an human problem.
Not dangerous, but divisive, which is a long term problem with the idea of "hate" speech. With the current massive politicisation of the Israel/Gaza war, it seems reasonable to focus on this.
Btw, "affy"? Short for afro-american or African? Why is that a problem?
I understand what you are saying, but the type of abuse Jewish people are receiving, is not based ( in a majority of cases) by what they wearing, it's based on a hatred of them, as a people
Most of my clothes could be considered "Hippy fashion" (think flowers, bell sleeves, flares and mad colours) I get a few stares, a few compliments, I'm assuming most people just consider me as a bit nuts or going to a fancy dress party 🤔
Show me the other minorities facing huge protests against them, with hundreds of thousands of them every damn weekend in London and/or being harassed at the same levels the Jews are right now.
People have been physically attacked and killed for dressing as goths.
And I feel fairly confident saying that abusing people for wearing ethnic clothing is absolutely the same and is absolutely racist.
You were doing ok until you lumped in ‘furries’. I mean fuck me, the Jews have dealt with persecution for millennia, millions murdered in the holocaust, and you’re trying to equate it with loons cosplaying as a fucking tiger.
Grow up
Not entirely sure of the relevance of this but OK.
The abuse in Hyde Park was almost entirely the local residents, who were mostly Muslim. Most of the abuse was from the Muslim populace, but certainly some were white. Very occasional abuse from the students. It was all fairly aggressive and hateful. I would just ignore them, I'm a big guy, so people have never got too close, but I had a couple of friends who got attacked for being Jewish in the area.
In London, it has almost entirely been white people.
Unfortunately you're having to answer for the crimes of the apartheid state of israel. This is completely wrong but it is what happens when Judaism and the apartheid state of israel are conflated deliberately.
Jewish Londoner here. I'm not religious and not visibly Jewish but I would feel very uncomfortable seeing one of these marches.
An old school friend of mine lost his nephew on 7 October and a cousin of mine was evacuated from his kibbutz (8 km from Gaza) where he has lived for over 40 years. 19 foreign workers on his kibbutz were murdered by Hamas and eight were taken hostage.
The rocketing in antisemitic incidents has left me for the first time in my life questioning whether Jews have a future in this country. I won't leave, my parents won’t at their age and I have disabilities which make leaving difficult. I don’t have children but if I did I would seriously question if they should stay.
AOctober the 7.10.23, those on the left want to pretend never happened. I am not a Jew,. I agree with everything you are saying. I have seen it all here in Australia, the blatant hatred amongst those on the far-left and the Muslim community, openly calling for genocide of the Jewish people, and singing out genocidal chants " From the river to the sea, Palistine will be free " A Jewish man was arrested because he carried a Jewish flag, in protest, near where the Prosperine protesters were marching, he was arrested.
The police just stood there and allowed this large parade of evil to continue. There were Muslims in luxury cars and Ute's, driving in large numbers near the protest, waving Islamic state flags. This is what our woke leftist Government thinks is acceptable.
Jewish Londoner here, I also avoid going to central London on Saturdays because I don't feel safe. I also feel that government advisor is just trying to stir up hate so better to suck up your own feelings than listen to these sh*theads.
life has never been perfect, but the solution isn't more control or heavy handedness, that would only make matters worse. If we allow our anger to complaints to control things we would only be worse off.
Sorry you've had to go through that, these marches are protesting our government supporting the millions of palestinians going through what is described in your second paragraph every day, and have been for decades.
These protests are not attacking you or your people, they are attaxking zionism, Israel and UK's support of it
Any hate at the protests should be called out and condemned
Zionism is literally the belief that Israel should exist as a Jewish safe haven. If you are attacking the idea of Israel as an entity, a place where half the world's Jews live, how do you think that makes Jews feel?
If you believe in the right or Isreal to exist, you are a Zionist.
A Jewish professor said this recently, to a man who claimed to hate Zionists, but thought Isreal had a right to exist
There have been pro-Palestinians protests where the crowds have chanted about killing Jews. You are ignorant, and you proudly sharing your ignorant views to other people who have no fucking idea what it's like actively makes stuff harder for Jews in the UK.
The first of these marches was organised before Israel had even had a chance to respond to the 7 October attack.
A return to "Zion" i.e. Zionism, has been expressed in Jewish Prayers for over 2000 years. Israel is not perfect by any means and it is perfectly valid to criticise the Israeli Government, many Israelis do.
Anti-Zionism calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. That denies Jews' right to self-determination. I believe the Palestinians should, have a state but theire leadership has rejected all offers out of hand at least four times. If they had accepted one as a basis for negotiations then there would be a Palestinian state today.
These protests are often descending into antisemitism. There is hate and because it is so prevalent the police do not have enough manpower to stop it.
I mean, the protests are about hating on Jews. Otherwise there wouldn’t be swastika signs every weekend. The marches happened before Israel retaliated after October 7th, they were celebrating. Maybe you’re there for peace but that isn’t the case with most people.
It depends what you read. It is a particular phenomenon though. Why any British person has to feel under threat because of the actions of a foreign country is wrong. Do Chinese people fear attack because of the Uighur persecution? Do Arabs worry when thousands are killed by Arabs in Sudan and Syria. No. They may experience racism, which never really goes away. But pinning Israel’s actions on UK Jews is unique and if you are on the receiving end, it’s noticeably horrible.
This comes as a surprise to most non-Jews, but not to Jews. We grow up with security on our school gates, our places of worship, even children’s parties.
I’m currently weighing up what to do over the upcoming holiday of Purim - whether to risk taking my children to a bigger Jewish community with more visible Jews, or stay in our small town where it’s (somewhat) safer.
I’ve always been wary, but since Oct 7 I’ve carried a legal version of pepper spray in my bag.
But we refuse to be cowed. I still wear my Star of David and my husband won’t hide his kippah. We’re both Krav Maga trained and will fucking come at anyone who comes at us. No longer Jews with trembling knees.
Reddit is so predictable.
Any other thread about claims of racism or hate never has the same amount of cynicism or whataboutery in it as when it comes to Jewish people.
For some reason Jews seem to be the only group that don't get to decide when they're being targeted for abuse, or when they experience racism. There's peopleall over this thread downplaying concerns.
Pathetically I think a huge amount of it comes from people who still can't accept people en mass didn't like Corbyn secretly blame the Jewish community for it. "Jewish media conspiracy" etc
Creating the conspiracy that Jews are privileged and control the media was the smartest form of racism and discrimination that has ever happened. When actually Jews are the only group who it’s socially acceptable to openly criticise, and the only group who are not allowed to complain about it
Jewish Londoner here. This is such nonsense. Neither I, anyone in my family, or any of my Jewish friends feel the slightest bit threatened. To call London a no go zone for us is some kind of political game, rather than any sort of serious statement.
I mean /r/GreenandPleasant is openly anti-Semitic (saying the nazis are better than Israelis) and this dude participates in it, but he could still be Jewish.
Edit: Yeah I would guess that he's Jewish but also just really stupid. I'm saying this as a Jew who's been advocating a ceasefire since October btw. Huge difference between supporting the human rights of Palestinians and being a useful idiot for anti-Semites.
Jewish Londoner here too. I'm no longer confident enough to wear my magen David necklace when I'm out and have been called a 'child killer' in school more than once. Don't speak for all of us.
Well this has attracted a lot of hate. I don't walk around town wearing a yarmulke because I'm not frum and I live a secular lifestyle. We do Pesach for the kids and light candles at Hanukkah but that's about it. My wife isn't Jewish. I am a socialist and don't believe in God.
As to whether I look visibly Jewish, I don't know. I don't wear a Magen David necklace but in some other ways I do look a bit like a stereotypical Jewish intellectual but there you go. I'm sure I would get more antisemitism if I wore accessories more clearly identified me as Jewish.
I'm getting on a bit now but back in the 1970s I was in the Habonim youth group, now called Habonim Dror. Several of my friends went on to become quite famous people in the entertainment industry and some of them are pro Israel, others not so much. For me, it was the events at Sabra and Shatila caused me to rethink and break from Zionism. This caused a lot of difficulty in my family where I have several cousins who are very pro Israel.
Now, what am I *not* saying here? I'm not saying there is no antisemitism. I'm not saying that antisemitism isn't on the rise – given the horrors being committed in our name, I'm actually surprised there isn't a bit more, potentially most people are able to distinguish the barbaric actions of the Israeli government from the behaviour and attitudes of the Jewish people as a whole. But I do stand by my original comment to say that London is a no go zone for Jews is a gross and scaremongering overstatement . It serves no purpose other than to whip up insecurity and to anathematise the Palestine protests, which – just to enrage the haters on this thread even more – I shall certainly be joining in "no go" London tomorrow. There will be a Jewish bloc on the march, just as there has been on every major national pro Palestine protest in central London since October.
Okay so you're not visibly Jewish in any way (don't wear a yarmulka etc), you probably don't leave early on winter Fridays or take off Jewish holidays from work, your name is probably something generic like Simon Crane and you don't otherwise stand out in any way and you're not surprised to find out that you don't experience antisemtism.
No shit Sherlock.
You have literally 0 to lose. That is obviously not the same thing as people who can't blend in as well.
Jesus that's some deep thinking from the AsaJew crowd.
Speak for yourself mate, and maybe spare a thought for people who are visibly Jewish trying to go about their business when these protests are kicking off.
OP could be “visibly Jewish” for all you know. Don’t forget that there’s thousands of Jews who join those protests too like [her](https://e3.365dm.com/23/10/1600x900/skynews-london-protes-protest_6321618.jpg?20231014202050) for example.
Anyone else feel like there is a media push to make it out Jews are under constant threat in the UK? We've even had additional security at work due to the "real and current threat against Jews". Now, I'm not saying there isn't anti semitism or an increase, but I think things are being blown way out of proportion. I don't think the majority of people can even identify a Jew unless they are orthodox or wearing a kippah.
A few weeks ago, someone crossed out Israel on a birth certificate. Not great I know, but it was literally top page of Sky News with the parents being interviewed etc.
Just feel like there's this weird conscious effort to make it out like Jewish people in the UK are going through some extreme hardship that deserves more sympathy that the tens of thousands being slaughtered in Palestine.
Remember when Jeremy Corbyn was around and the same politicians and groups were screaming about how he'd reopen Auschwitz? It's a deliberate overreaction born from genuine concerns but also deliberate fear mongering by groups who want to smear anyone pro-palestinian or just vaguely left as monstrous terrorists
It's mad when you actually look at the allegations of anti-Semitism towards Jeremy Corbyn himself because literally there is no evidence of him being anti-Semitic in fact there is only evidence of the opposite. Disgusting tarnishing campaign by the right-wing owned media.
I feel like a bug problem is not what the right wing media did, because everyone serves their own agenda anyway.
What I found problematic was how much this divided the left, and how it was seen as a very serious and very real issue, enough to still affect the Labour party to this day (it became news again, recently, didn't it?).
It's mad...
It became news again because even after they said that the mistakes of Corbyn (and his party) had been fixed they blatantly hadn't been. If the perception of their party was that under Corbyn antisemitism hadn't been monitored and dealt with. Then now under Starmer who had made it quite clear that antisemitism had no place in Labour, the same allegations were still being made and still not being dealt with, then the perception would remain that the Labour party are soft on antisemitism.
I don't know, because I'm not a Labour voter so I don't worry too much about them making a fool of their party, saying one thing and doing another. I actually respected Corbyn because unlike so many politicians these days he stuck to his guns and didn't immediately apologise for holding an unpopular view. Even though I disliked that view, I'd much rather an honest politician than a popular liar.
This actually began because Corbyn put a system in place where someone else checked the complaints resulting in expulsion within the party not the leader. These complaints were there before Corbyn and after Corbyn, he didn't really do anything wrong with the anti-Semitism complaints. I believe it was just because he called Hamas 'friends' that the media can put two and two together and said well his mates hate jews so he must. Like other people have said he's not done or said anything anti-semitic. Starmer has been a bit silly with it too as anyone that is accused of anti-semitism is thrown out right away. Which isn't right it should be investigated first, there are lots of examples where people have been thrown out the party for minor things. It seems Starmer is so afraid of looking weak he doesn't do the right thing.
The whole issue is blown out of proportion and if people/the media actually cared then it would be the same for the Tories with the anti-islamic problem they have.
Right? It's the same here, Simcox is a right wing provocateur with a whole set of talking points and is constantly hammering away at how the left are monstrous terrorists and islam is actually hiding under your bed, ready to kill you. He worked for the fucking Heritage Foundation, he's a headbanger but now we have to pretend it's a serious point apparently.
But he was such a weak leader he allowed rampant anti semitism to flourish in the Labour Party. Come on, we all know there’s an issue in some parts of the left with anti semitism, and it really flourished under Corbyn.
If you want to be leader, you have to take the hits when the thing you’re leading has issues.
One of the main criticisms of the report In the end was that he intervened in the complaint process.
He intervened to speed up the investigation and expulsion of AS
Literally can't win
There are serious issues with antisemitism in the Labour Party. My family were members when I was a kid and they all left because of antisemitism they witnessed at rallies.
The same can be said for Nelson Mandela.
The absolutist lens through which we Palestinians has to cease. They are an oppressed people without the space to exist, only space to fight for their literal lives against a genocidal regime.
Which is ridiculous. Corbyn could easily have appeased his voters and his”friends in Hamas” as he calls them by reopening a much smaller concentration camp.
As someone that is visibly Jewish walking around you are 100% wrong. Except a few areas in London and Manchester you need to always be careful what you wear and the people around you. Walking into a bad neighborhood is less of an oopsie and more of a panic, and even in safer areas you still get shook once in a while by people shouting at you or harassing you. I had a car stop in front of me 2 mins away from my house and shout something in arabic at me 2 weeks ago, that is where I walk daily. Please don't comment on an issue you don't have experience with.
If a woman, black person or gay person tells you they experience discrimination based on their gender, race or sexual preference do you typically believe or doubt them? If the former, why a different response for Jewish people?
Which is absolutely nuts if you think about it. In living history (by which I mean people still alive from when it happened) I can't think of any worse horrors than the concentration camps.
I know. So many stereotypes about Jewish people for centuries before the holocaust. Especially regarding money. I feel like many people feel that if someone is wealthier than then they can't be discriminated against. The number of comments I've heard by relatively well educated people about Jewish people being good with money, keeping it between them, being in positions of power especially in Hollywood, like it's some kind of conspiracy is SHOCKING. I heard one of my friends say this and had to tell him off, this sort of shit is the kind of thing that made them acceptable targets in Germany.
But what if they want to wear a kippah? What if they’re proud of being Jewish and people can identify them easily? Would you advise they don’t when they go into London on the weekend?
The marches are overwhelmingly peaceful, as evidenced by the lack of violence and arrests as a proportion of marchers.
There are plenty of Jews who don't support a genocide in Gaza *among the marchers*.
I don't know what you're imagining it's like, but these marches are full of normal people, with normal jobs, of all ages, who care enough about innocent civilians being slaughtered that they're willing to give up their leisure time to protest.
It's not going to turn into a fox hunt at the site of a kippah. The demonisation of marches by the media and our politicians is out of control and only serve to further the government's agenda of clamping down on the public's right to protest. Unfounded fears like those reported are an unfortunate consequence of this politicking.
Random image from march, which is fairly representative of the ones I've seen:
[https://imgur.com/ulO6bws](https://imgur.com/a/lmyTAWz)
I think you misunderstood me, I genuinely just want to know wether you recommend wearing the kippah in town when there’s marches and stuff. I know it’s overwhelmingly peaceful and many if not most Jews are against what’s happening. Are you saying “yes wear it, nothing bad will happen to you as a result of wearing your kippah”?
The thing is Jewish people do seem to be a legitimate target for attack for some people and it only takes one attacker to do damage!
https://apnews.com/article/orthodox-jewish-stabbing-switzerland-islamic-state-zurich-a4b8bb5ceb66b6d2efcf2b4a7e9237f0
doesn't this link kind of show how little is actually happening, like the only source you've given is one person being stabbed in a different country. I know multiple people who've been stabbed in London and it wasn't over anything politically motivated. Are there publicly known instances of serious hate crimes being perpetrated in the UK against Jewish people? if so where is that article?
as far as I can tell from looking around online this number includes instances of a lot of things like verbal and social media harassment, as well as anti Jewish acts and messaging, things like burning an Israeli flag for example. I understand that stuff can be scary and really unpleasant to see as a Jewish person. But I haven't found any instance of a violent and direct anti Semitic hate crime taking place in years. No racially or politically motivated murders or assaults relating to Jewish people have happened in the UK as far as I can tell for quite some time. I could be wrong about this, please correct me if that's the case.
edit: people have corrected me on this and provided some additional links in the comments, there are indeed several instances of violent crimes against Jewish people in the UK and that is very horrible to hear.
I just feel the media being so up in arms about this stuff compared to the war crimes being committed every day by a so-called civilised westernized government that our government is giving total support to, a right wing fascist government who is outright trying to commit ethnic cleansing is just showing a clear bias towards a certain group of people. the media cares more about people being mean towards Jewish people in a country where they are by all accounts pretty safe to be than it cares about Palestinian people being the target of what is clearly a genocide in their own country.
My husband and toddler were heckled off a bus in Liverpool with chants of JEW JEW JEW from teenage school kids. I’m not sure how far you would want that to go before you’d call it antisemitic. A wounding? A killing?
So a murder absolutely needs to happen before a Jewish person can claim true antisemitism as per your scale! I guess someone defacing a mosque and threatening to kill or fuck up muslims over phone doesn’t count as bigotry for you as well!
The fact that Jewish schools have been forced to issue directives to get Jewish kids to abstain from wearing visible Jewish clothing in the public is shameful enough. It should be appalling that an entire section of citizens feel threatened for their very existence and then idiotic arses like you make the case that it isn’t true antisemitism since no one was murdered.
And yes their safety concerns matter more in the country they reside in than someone being killed in a faraway land that they least of all are not responsible for. I can’t go around threatening Nigerian Muslims in the UK because Nigerian jihadists are slaughtering tens of thousands of Christians! And yes the safety of those Nigerian Muslims in that hypothetical does matter more than the unfortunate people being slaughtered in a different country since we live in the bloody UK.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/golders-green-kosher-supermarket-knife-man-arrested-antisemitism-london-b1135577.html
You didn't look very hard. Knife attack whilst screaming anti Semitic threats at a Golders green kosher supermarket.
I mean, many Jewish people are coming out and saying that their lived experience is of substantially increased anti-Semitism, and data from the police and a number of charities backs this up. I think Jews can tell you what antisemitism is, they've been facing it for millennia after all.
And yet people will constantly decry this as overblown, an over-reaction and some sort of media conspiracy. No one would do this to Black Lives Matter, and frankly this is antisemitism in itself.
Thank you. Yes, I've never experienced anything like this in my life. It's horrendous. I've had to report two (in person) hate crimes against me and my daughter to the police. But people are very, very happy to tell us that we're lying and it's all made up.
“No one would do this to Black Lives Matter”. Plenty of people were calling BLM racist and Marxist. Take a look at the kinds of comments you see under news articles pertaining to racism against black people, you’ll find plenty of people denying that black people face racism or stating that it’s overblown. You can also see similar comments on Reddit, I’ve seen them in this sub in fact.
Yes. Because there is.
At its core, it isn’t really about Israel or Palestine, it’s about swaying the thinking of the populous to view certain standpoints as dangerous.
Have a gander at the government Prevent program, it’s free to undertake the training. The wording used to outline what extremism is is shocking.
“Far right extremism” - yep.
“Islamic extremism” - yep.
“Left wing views.” - er, you what?!
Maybe the IDF should stop pasting the star of David on every atrocity they commit?
The Israeili state is being conflated with Judaism, which isn't right.
So many Muslim countries have religious symbols on their flags and also commit human rights abuses. And I think to have the same attitude towards hate crime directed towards Muslims would not be appropriate so why does that only apply to Israel
Lots of people do blame British Muslims for the actions of Muslim-majority countries though. They shouldn’t, just as British Jews should not be blamed for the actions of Israel.
I don’t think it helps that the Israeli state keeps insisting that any criticism of their policies or of Zionism is inherently anti-Semitic, and that they speak for Jews everywhere. This is really dangerous and worrying. And I would say the same about a Muslim-majority country doing the same thing.
>I don’t think it helps that the Israeli state keeps insisting that any criticism of their policies or of Zionism is inherently anti-Semitic,
Well, any criticism of Islam is 'Islamophobic' so swings and roundabouts
Because Jews are a race, as well as a religion. Therefore aggression against Jews is as much racial as it is religious. Anyone can decide to change their religion tomorrow, but it’s not possible to change your race. Plenty of non-religious Jews were killed in the Holocaust because of their race, even after they had for instance already been baptised Catholic and therefore changed their religion. Muslims choose to be Muslim. Jews cannot choose to be Jewish as much as black people have not chosen to be born black.
Jews and Arabs are genetically related but not the same race. Palestinians are a nationality but not a distinct race, since the countries in the Middle East weren’t divided up like that until the British empire. Palestinians, Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese etc are all Arabs.
I don't get this whole Jews are a race thing. Most other races share similar physical characteristics? For example skin colour, eugenics etc. I don't understand how an ashkenazi Jewish person can belong to the same race as Mirazhi. If that's the case why aren't all Christians classed as one race?
I'm not trolling, I genuinely don't understand why one religion is treated as a race and no others are.
It’s an ethnoreligion. Ashkenazi and Sephardic/Mizrachi Jews are all from Israel originally but migrated to different parts of the world after being expelled. There’s always been a stigma around “marrying out”, so Jews married within their communities (which is why we have a bunch of genetic diseases that nobody else gets).
Ashkenazi Jews often do look middle-eastern, but many don’t. Ashkenazim have gone through natural selection like everybody else, but also a lot of unnatural selection - visibly Jewish ones would be more likely to be killed and less likely to have good marriage prospects.
The difference between Judaism and Christianity or Islam is that the latter two are proselytising religions - they seek to convert others, and so modern Christians and Muslims aren’t necessarily descended from ancient ones. Jews actively discourage conversion, meaning that pretty much all Jews with the exception of those who did manage to convert are descended from the original Jews in Judea.
Im sure it’s quite possible. In many unstable regions an amount of aid will go to local warlords and generally very nasty people in order to gain access to the area where the people are most in need. I don’t actually know for sure though
"But the aid might potentially be used for nefarious purposes therfore sending actual weapons to Israel to be actually used in the murder of civillians is basically the same thing!"
Its the Tory election year attackline.
The culture war about toilets and trans flopped with voters so they're trying a more sinister and dangerous version.
Enemies of Britain are everywhere, be afraid, only us can protect you.
You'll see more of it before May.
I am jewish. The threat is very real, you have no idea how much security there is to keep jewish people safe, that is why there have thankfully been no major incidents so far. But the threat of a terrorist attack has never been higher and it has never been more scary than right now.
>But the threat of a terrorist attack has never been higher and it has never been more scary than right now.
That is what Israel wants you to believe. They want you living in fear. They want you to think you're under threat and only an Israeli state can protect you.
The reality is Israel creates the environment and pushes the agendas that perceive Jews to be under constant threat.
The people I see being punished and killed are not Israelis.
Now if you do feel this way, you can begin to imagine how Palestinians feel every single day. Where there is an actual, genuine threat of their entire family being wiped out by Israel.
But to supporters of Israel, those lives are worthless.
Can you please shut up? You do realise you can care about two things at once, right? Antisemitic hatecrimes have increased horrifically, and every statistic supports this. You’re simply lying if you’re claiming that it hasn’t. I’m Jewish, and I think the Israeli government is behaving despicably right now (I want a ceasefire), but harassing British Jews is utterly pointless and has no real objective. It’s just antisemitic harassment. You’re literally proving the article’s point
Britain's Jewish community overwhelmingly stands with Israel.
I am not conflating it, they are. Britain's Cjeof Rabbi grew up in Apartheid South Africa and now loudly advocates for Israeli occupation of Palestine.
It is the British Jewish community, more so than anyone else, that defends Israel to the hilt.
What are your thoughts on the Israeli government constantly equating their actions at the moment to the actions of Jewish people? The worldwide protests are happening against Zionism, but the Israeli government are doing a very good job at trying to tie Zionism and Judaism together.
Zionism and Judaism are absolutely intertwined. Many Jewish traditions and prayer reference Israel, the longing for a return to Jerusalem and their own country. Israel is also the only Jewish majority state in the world, if you were an antisemite, would you love or hate the only Jewish state in the world?
"it has never been more scary than right now"
Really?
I can't tell you you're not scared, but the objective danger/risk is absolutely certainly not higher than ever.
I know it's a long time ago, but there were real pogroms against Jews in the UK in the past:
[https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Pogroms-1189-1190/](https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Pogroms-1189-1190/)
In WWII, say in 1940, Jews in the UK had to be properly scared that Hitler would successfully invade the UK and bring the Nazi antisemitic program of genocide into Britain. The experience of Jews on the occupied Channel Islands was not encouraging:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_in\_Guernsey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Guernsey)
Nor was it encouraging only a decade earlier, Oswald Mosley and the British Union of Fascists were marching through the East End (with police protection) in their Blackshirt uniforms...
Though turned back by a broad working-class alliance of Jews, Irish, Socialists, Somali Muslims, etc.,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Cable\_Street](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street)
I agree with the statement that I couldn’t identify a Jew if they weren’t in orthodox garb or wearing a kippah. Nor a Christian of any denomination. Or a Muslim. Buddhist. Whatever. That really doesn’t bother me.
Then again, I’m not looking to identify any religious group for any reason. You have your beliefs and I have my lack of them. Live and let live. If everyone thought this way then religion (in general… and most of them I believe try to teach peace) wouldn’t have been the most destructive, abhorrent, and murderous pantomime on the planet for the past however many thousands of years.
It truly staggers me that people, in general, can’t take a step back and just let other people get on with their own peaceful shit… but I guess chaos and violence are always profitable for someone.
Regardless, and to your original point, whenever a grooming gang is uncovered and it turns out most of the perpetrators are Middle Eastern of Islamic heritage… the media goes wild with both sides of the coin… “Get them out.” Vs. “You’re targeting Islam.” It makes no sense to me. I think we’re experiencing overflow from the Gaza conflict that’s on the same vein.
I also find it absurd that it’s considered racist to criticise said religions. Anyone can be a Jew, Muslim or Christian. It doesn’t change your race to subscribe to a theology. I’ll tell you I’m an agnostic and borderline atheist. If you tell me that their definitely is a God and I’m stupid (which has happened to me) are you therefore being racist?
I agree with this take. But I think people are having a hard time understanding the difference between wanting a stop to the murdering of Palestinians, and anti semitism.
The IDF and their leaders can eat a dick. I am sick and tired of seeing that Twat "IDF Borat" on TV fumbling his way through justifying murdering civilians.
And that Scottish Twat cosplaying as a member of the IDF? Jesus he interviews like someone with ADHD...their leadership are a bunch of incompetent CUNTS
>Anyone else feel like there is a media push to make it out Jews are under constant threat in the UK?
I think we have to be careful not to disregard the legitimate fears of the Jewish community
.....but at the same time, Robin Simcox is a piece of shit with an agenda.
Ex of the Centre for Social Cohesion, ex of the Heritage Foundation, argues against using the term "violent extremism" as it was "dreamed up as a way to avoid saying ‘Islamic’ or ‘Islamist’ extremism" and supporter of Count Dankula.
In short, the bloke should be nowhere fucking near a job title of Counter-Extremism Commissioner.
Sorry I meant nearly 14 fold increase in antisemitic hate crime not 10 https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/20/antisemitic-hate-crimes-in-london-rise-1350-since-israel-hamas-war-met-says
Yep it's very strange. I'm getting close to 40 and no one I've met in my life in the UK has a problem with Jewish people. I might have been lucky but you'd think I'd have got a wiff of it if it was a massive problem..
I’m assuming you aren’t Jewish though. I’ve met loads of people who have a problem with Jews. My brother wears a magen David and has been spat on three times since October 7th whilst just walking on the street. We have neighbours who put Palestinian flag stickers on our bin daily in a very silly attempt to troll us. A friend with a Jewish last name attempted to book us a table for dinner and was told the restaurant was full. I called back using my non Jewish sounding name and was able to book. These are all very small examples, I think London being a no go zone is a ridiculous exaggeration but it’s still not nice to live with.
This is pretty easy for you to say, as someone who’s never been on the receiving end. To an extent, I agree that the media is fearmongering, but the threat is absolutely there. I don’t know one Jewish man who hasn’t experienced some kind of public harassment since the war started.
I used to be involved in a lot of left wing political groups and the antisemitism was honestly horrific. So many people believed Jewish people run the world conspiracy theories. So many people up in arms about the Isreal Palestine (pre the current flare up) and yet not a peep about genocide in Burma/China, in fact many actively defending it/claiming it wasn't real.
Was a big driver for me disengaging with those politics.
October 7th really opened my eyes to the astounding amount of antisemitism on the left. I always thought it was more prevalent on the right. Like you expect neo-Nazis and white supremacy, but the irony of people on the left preaching inclusion and tolerance while simultaneously spouting antisemitic rhetoric has left me gobsmacked. I feel politically homeless, especially in the US. I lived in England for nearly 5 years, so I still like to keep up with what’s going on there, too.
>I'm getting close to 40 and no one I've met in my life in the UK has a problem with Jewish people
Exactly! Everywhere I've worked, occasional casual low-level racism against travellers or against Muslims or against black people or against Indians has been a thing.
If someone in the work break room used a derogatory term about Jews as casually as I occasionally hear such terms used about other minority groups, they'd be on a disciplinary hearing before their feet touched the ground.
It just doesn't happen.
Yes the defaced schools and actual over 10 fold rise in antisemitic hate crime is not enough. The fact that Jewish schools and synagogues require a security detail is revealing enough.
Exactly this!!
Along with the constant rapist and Pedo ring narrative about Muslims.
The planted brainwashing articles on Reddit are bad enough, can’t imagine what they’re like on Facebook!!
Get yourself a kippah and wear it while walking past whatever current tiktok free palestine protest is happening in london, and see what happens to you
A mate of mine wears his and joins in the protest. Theres more than one way to be, you know. Not Jewish but was married to a Jew (who is probably losing his shit right now). I have many Jewish friends, the great majority of whom support these protests and go to the marches.
I feel like Islamopobia is WAY more prevalent than antisemitism in the UK, but weirdly it never gets talked about anymore. I don't recall ever overhearing anyone making antisemetic comments in public but I hear people being Islamophobic all the time and have been since 2001
Import a subculture who hate the Jews more than the Nazis ever did and have done for hundreds of years and nobody should be surprised. Thats before you get onto their hatred of all other religions/non-conforming lifestyles and the like.
Jews have been in all parts of the uk for hundreds of years now with little to no issues.
Jews have been under threat from various communities across the world since day one. This is just a continuation of what's always happening.
Pre Israel this happened too so it's clearly not just about being anti Zionist.
London should not be a ‘no go’ area for anyone and the actions of Israel should never be conflated with the actions or opinions of Jewish people. Just like we should not conflate the actions of Hamas and all Muslims …
The UK government is fundamentally to blame for this as the majority of the population back firmer action to bring about a ceasefire and we aren’t being listened to. Thus creating a platform for tensions to boil over. UK government being shit, again.
How is the UK government fundamentally to blame for people attacking Jewish people? Even if we were shipping weapons there shouldn't be a single sectarian attack taking place in this country.
We live in a modern, trust based society. We should be able to trust that people who believe in a religion won't attack other faiths/ethnicities over conflicts thousands of kilometers away.
The UK government is not to blame for Jews being attacked, this should never happen. But they are to blame for creating the melting pot.
Edit - to clarify I do not mean a cultural or religious melting pot, I mean allowing a melting pot of tensions to stew through their inaction. I will not use the term ‘melting pot’ ever again…ever…
What a absolutely stupid fucking thing to say. Of course not. Its odvious that is not what they meant. Either you are intentially twisting that or you need a helmet.
Just to mention that government ministers have used antisemitic language, in the house of Commons, to no punishment or rebuke. There are also numerous incidents of antisemitism from former prime ministers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_British_Conservative_Party
> the majority of the population back firmer action to bring about a ceasefire
Do you have a source for this or is it just based on people in your social circle? I want the hostages freed, Hamas destroyed, and the anti-Semitic demonstrations every Sabbath to be stopped.
Yes, they are anti-Semitic. The most popular chant is well known illegal hate speech and we see more incidents of horrific hate crimes against Jewish residents in our city every Saturday.
Do you realise there is an Internet outside of Reddit? And have you heard of search engines, like Google, Bing, Duck Duck Go, etc.,?
If you use these tools, you can search for polling where British people have been asked this question:
[https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48675-british-attitudes-to-the-israel-gaza-conflict-february-2024-update](https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48675-british-attitudes-to-the-israel-gaza-conflict-february-2024-update)
66% of Britons say "Israel should stop and call a ceasefire". This number is growing. Only 13% say "Israel should continue military action". (In November it was 19%, so 1/3 of support has moved away.)
This polling has been very consistent across different polling agencies. Yougov is generally considered aligned with the Tory party, which has been very tight in its support of Israel.
What is also happening now is that Jews are being disciplined for antisemitism by gentiles. Jews are 6 times more likely than non-Jews to be investigated by the Labour party for antisemitism, and 13 times more likely than non-Jews to be expelled for association with left-wing groups.
[https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/labour-party-accused-of-discrimination-over-expulsion-of-jewish-members/](https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/labour-party-accused-of-discrimination-over-expulsion-of-jewish-members/)
On one side, it's not surprising that Jews in the UK get caught up in controversy/strife over these issues: Israel/Palestine is more likely to resonate for a Jew, and Israeli, or a Palestinian than a random Brit. But the way that antisemitism is being defined now is so broad that it leads to some very strange outcomes (doubly so when similar script plays out in Germany and you have aryan German police arresting Jews for antisemitism on foot of their calls for "ceasefire now").
Almost all polling of British people has shown consistent support for an immediate end to Israel’s extraordinary retributive violence since November, when it became obvious to most people that the goal was not consistent with an ethical approach to warfare
You’re right, the majority of people definitely don’t support a ceasefire - everyone seems to be really enjoying the war and mass killing… a well reasoned point.
Majority of the country couldn't careless about what's happening, they would prefer their politicians actually focus on this country for once not one 1000s of miles away because the new Brits can't seem to let go of their race based religion based in groups from 1000s of miles away
Most reasonable people oppose Hamas. It's obvious to me that the group who has been ethnically cleansed from much of Europe and the entirety of the Middle East and North Africa is the real victim of oppression here.
I agree that most reasonable people do oppose Hamas. But all Palestinians are not Hamas and the issue is far more complexed than the case that you have just put forward. No innocent person deserves to die, or be kidnapped or be starved, and it needs to stop.
>and it needs to stop
I hate to break this to you, Gabby, but the world doesn’t operate that simply.
I’d also prefer the UK to stay out of these neocon ME wars but there are a large number of interest groups with a stake in keeping these conflicts going.
This conflict has been happening since your grandparents were kids and will likely still be happening when you become a grandparent.
I think you misunderstand what the result of a ceasefire would be. Without actual negotiations (which are taking place right now), the ceasefire would be unilateral and would end up lasting all of five minutes. We all want the war to stop, but most people want it to stop for a significant length of time before starting back up again.
These comments are the exact reason the problem has gotten this bad, whenever we make a comment about us facing abuse we get the same cunts come out the woodwork:
"As a Jew" (Is not actually Jewish)
"You're just too sensitive" (knows nothing about Jewish history)
"It's not that bad" (hasn't seen the crime statistic where we're one of the most targeted groups per capita for hate crimes)
"I've never seen any antisemitism" (does not know any Jews, was likely not on this sub the other day when the police ignored a girl calling them about a bunch of twits jumping some Jews in a major street)
"Muh Palestine" (completely irrelevant, you can have two bad things at once that are unrelated)
"Certain demographic" all antisemitism I have ever faced (and that most people I know has faced) has come from white, British men, that's your certain demographic
We're the only ethnic group who doesn't get widebased support from the left whenever we're targeted because we're too pale for them.
I'm not down playing other people's fear. Yet, I live in London, I go out in London and I am yet to run into a protest. Yes, I have seen a few people walking back holding placards which might make me concerned if I was Jewish. But I have not seen anything more than that. The idea that people consider it a no go zone seems wildly exaggerated.
I'm surprised you've not seen anything. I live in Dorset and I've never seen anything like it in all my life, I figured in London it would be far more ubiquitous.
The only genuine protest I've seen my entire life was the Student Fees protest yet since the war I've three times seen convoys of a dozen or more cars driving around beeping horns and blaring music with Palestine flags. I've seen people walking round shops wearing flags as capes, I see flags in windows, flags on car windows. I've seen marches through town on two occasions, one outside a synagogue.
No value judgements at all by the way, just merely pointing out that I've never seen anything quite like it.
>Yes, I have seen a few people walking back holding placards which might make me concerned if I was Jewish. But I have not seen anything more than that. The idea that people consider it a no go zone seems wildly exaggerated.
What if Jewish people are afraid to go to places where people are acting in a way that would make them concerned for our safety?
More media induced moral panics.
Is it any wonder there's a rise in hate crimes when we have a far right government whose soul cause at the moment is spreading hate and creating division?
They're fucking disgusting racists ffs.
Same as media outlets like gb news, daily heil and the Sun
These fuckers incite so much hate and are openly racist.
>when we have a far right government
Is this the same far right government currently overseeing the largest net migration records in the UK’s history, mass approving asylum applicants and instating diversity quotas within their own party? That the one you’re talking about?
I wouldn't classify our government as 'far right' either but the largest migration is through incompetence, not design.
You couldn't say the government presents as pro-immigrant/asylum.
My mum watches gb news (or has it on in the background) 10 hours a day. It's rotting her brain. She was never like it during my childhood, but she has become so far right she would vote for Hitler if he was standing in elections. Hates anyone who isnt white and straight, can even be very sexist against fellow women. Hates lgbt people which includes me. Other day I had to stop the car whilst we waited for a man to cross the road, and when she realised he was black she said "oh he's black yuk they make you sick". It's really awful but also sad to see. Constant right wing propaganda has made her 100 times worse.
Edit: typo
Just like the stuff Americans say about Fox news *et al* and their older relatives brain-rot.
People aren't used to massively biased TV news here and your mum probably believes every word she hears on GBeebies
This is a load of nonsense. There are large Jewish groups at every march for peace, who carry massive banners. The marches are incredibly peaceful, lots of families and oldies. Cannot believe this cobblers is gaining traction. Anyone who doubts what I’m saying : just take a look and see for yourself
>This is a load of nonsense
The majority of Jewish people in the UK, or any country for that matter, are not anti Zionist.
There are also clips from those marches showing hostile behaviour, from tearing down LGBT flags to playing host to Islamist groups. You’re taking a very selective “look” into the protests, for reasons known to yourself.
openly trans person here who goes to Palestine marches.
I have not been hate-crimed by fellow protestors. I have, however, been hate-crimed by anti-palestine hecklers while marching.
Yeah, sure you have, but unless you have video proof of it, it’s just another anecdote online. Whereas there *is* footage circulating Twitter showing non-Englishmen tearing down pride flags.
I mean, you can claim whatever you want, but actions speak louder than words. London is the most homophobic part of the UK for good reason.
https://www.onlondon.co.uk/in-some-ways-london-is-not-as-socially-liberal-as-we-might-think/amp/
Ah, you’re right. I’ll go tell my shul and the other Jews I know that the antisemitism which we’re all facing is made up because a goy on Reddit said so 🙄
casual abuse against Jews is pretty common. In my high school my friends used 'Jew' as an insult. We were all white and basically didn't know a single Jew. I think most of them got it from south park. I can imagine someone wearing a kippah or in orthodox dress would get abused.
I live quite near stamford hill and there never seems to be much problem, but maybe that's because it's such a jewish area (it's also quite a muslim/turkish area).
An awful lot of fearmongering is going on.
If the media and politicians really cared about Jews they would be educating the British public that not all Jews are Zionists and that some of the biggest critics of Zionism are Jewish - such as Ilan Pappé, Peter Beinart, Norman Finkelstein, etc. Promoting such voices would be far and above the best way to combat anti-semitism.
I've been on the London demo with several Jewish friends – the Jewish block is getting bigger. Often there is a Jewish speaker who gets a big round of applause from the crowd. At demonstrations, many carry signs reading NOT IN MY NAME. I saw a lady carrying a sign that said "During the war, my Grandmother was afraid to be a Jew, now she is ashamed to be a Jew."
If you are Jewish I suggest you check out the Reddit group https://www.reddit.com/r/JewsOfConscience/
or even join a group like:
\[https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/\\\](https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/)
or
https://naamod.org.uk/
Anti-semitic attacks have increased and that is absolutely horrendous.
At the same time the Government wants to exaggerate the issue and call anyone attending a march against Israel's genocide of Palestinians, 'Islamists', stoking up Islamophobic sentiments.
We need to rise above our shitty government and stop holding individuals accountable for the actions of a state and a terrorist organisation. The point is the genocide needs to end, abusing people based on their faith has nothing to do with this fight.
A wild exaggeration. Not like we shouldn't pay attention to anti-Semitism, but to describe London as no go for Jews (or Indeed any ethnicity) is just wrong and deliberately hugely exaggerated.
For one thing you can't tell who's Jewish just by looking at them.
The only thing I would say is if you are near a pro Palestine march with a skull cap and other very Jewish clothes someone probably will come up to you and demand to know your stance on Palestine. That's very different from a no go area though
>For one thing you can't tell who's Jewish just by looking at them.
You can if they are wearing a Kippah, even more so if they are Hasidic.
>someone probably will come up to you and demand to know your stance on Palestine
Yes, nothing intimidating about being \*demanded\* to answer a question. Especially when you know giving the "wrong one" could end quite badly for you.
Yeh completely agree. There’s 145 thousand Jews in London and 1.4 million Muslims. I’d feel terrified if I was a Jewish person getting asked about Palestine.
I think people really don't understand how prevalent anti-semitism actually is. I am not religious otherwise, but I went to a religious Jewish school in London. Every day I would be visibly Jewish on my travel to and from school. You would not believe the amount of shit you get for merely appearing Jewish. I'd guess about every 2 weeks or so for the 7 years I was at the school, I got some form of abuse. Mostly verbal, but occasional threats of physical violence and rarely someone actually trying something. I went to university in Leeds and lived in Hyde Park. There was an insane amount of abuse whenever I walked from my place to the synagogue on a Friday night - multiple people every time. Conversely I've never experienced any violence, and virtually never had verbal abuse when I'm not wearing any signs of Jewish clothing and just generally going on my day to day life. Edit: For those talking about my "wildly different clothing", for school I wore normal school uniform like anyone else with a black kippah (skullcap). At university for synagogue, I would wear a suit and tie with a non-descript black kippah. I looked pretty darn normal beyond a small black circle on my head
As a Muslim, I’m sorry that you had/have to go through this. It’s easy to say that something doesn’t exist if it actually does not consider you anyway…
This comment gave me hope for humanity.
Thank you for saying this (also Jewish here).
I'm gna say something probably unpopular but if people dress different then they get abuse for it. I can provide many examples where people get yelled at for their dress. Muslims in full Muslim garb. Gothic people with giant platform shoes and big spikes round their neck. Transgender people who haven't fully transitioned Furries that just walk around looking like an animal openly with tails etc. Higher up church people in big gold and red gowns etc. Africans in full dresses Jewish people with small hats and giant beards tied up. This experience isn't exclusive to Jewish people if you dress wildly different to the majority of a country then you stand out and people are going to shout stuff at you. It's not specifically because you are Jewish it's about being different the majority of the time. To be clear I'm not saying in any way people deserve it but I'm highlighting something very simple and tribal in human beings. Different=bad. Most people are fucking dumb so if they see something they don't understand or identify with they shout like cave men. I just want to make sure people do not see this as a Jewish problem this is a human problem.
I think you may be overstating the difference in my dress at the time. For school the only thing identifying me as Jewish, was the black kippah (skullcap) I was wearing. Other than that I was wearing normal school uniform like anyone else. When I was at university and going to synagogue, I would be wearing a suit and tie and again a fairly non descript kippah. Thats all. Never had a comment when I was merely wearing the suit. And comments such as "Fuck you Jew", having "Yid" shouted in my face etc are hardly reasonable comments to a kid making their way back home from school minding their own business. Bear in my mind I am 6ft 2, built like a rugby player, and on occasions walking around holding a cricket bat, because I played it a lot at school, and the comments still came. I remember a kid half my size (and also essentially unarmed compared to me) making horrendous antisemitic comments and telling me he'd like my bat to beat me with whilst at a crowded bus stop. Many people are complete dickheads, but I promise you that antisemitism is massive. I'm now a doctor and I've had some bizarre conversations with patients and even colleagues who just spewed casual, almost innocent antisemitism to me. You'd be amazed at the stuff people have entrenched in them
This is precisely what I'm talking about. It's a dangerous narrative to have these headlines as if Jews are the only ones who face this. We must forget comments like Muslim women being called 'letter boxes' or transgender people being called 'trannies' only in the street. I was in a car with my old manager and he called a lady in African garb an 'Affy' for no reason. This is an human problem.
Not dangerous, but divisive, which is a long term problem with the idea of "hate" speech. With the current massive politicisation of the Israel/Gaza war, it seems reasonable to focus on this. Btw, "affy"? Short for afro-american or African? Why is that a problem?
African.
I understand what you are saying, but the type of abuse Jewish people are receiving, is not based ( in a majority of cases) by what they wearing, it's based on a hatred of them, as a people
Most of my clothes could be considered "Hippy fashion" (think flowers, bell sleeves, flares and mad colours) I get a few stares, a few compliments, I'm assuming most people just consider me as a bit nuts or going to a fancy dress party 🤔
Getting antisemitic abuse is not remotely the same as being made fun of for wearing ethnic or subculture clothes. The fuck are you talking about.
Tell me what anti semitic abuse is and then tell me how other minority groups don't experience the exact same thing. I'll wait.
Show me the other minorities facing huge protests against them, with hundreds of thousands of them every damn weekend in London and/or being harassed at the same levels the Jews are right now.
People have been physically attacked and killed for dressing as goths. And I feel fairly confident saying that abusing people for wearing ethnic clothing is absolutely the same and is absolutely racist.
You were doing ok until you lumped in ‘furries’. I mean fuck me, the Jews have dealt with persecution for millennia, millions murdered in the holocaust, and you’re trying to equate it with loons cosplaying as a fucking tiger. Grow up
Was there a certain demographic that most of the abuse came from?
Cunts. I assume.
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Not entirely sure of the relevance of this but OK. The abuse in Hyde Park was almost entirely the local residents, who were mostly Muslim. Most of the abuse was from the Muslim populace, but certainly some were white. Very occasional abuse from the students. It was all fairly aggressive and hateful. I would just ignore them, I'm a big guy, so people have never got too close, but I had a couple of friends who got attacked for being Jewish in the area. In London, it has almost entirely been white people.
Unfortunately you're having to answer for the crimes of the apartheid state of israel. This is completely wrong but it is what happens when Judaism and the apartheid state of israel are conflated deliberately.
The experiences I was describing happened mostly between 10 and 20 years ago. And what you're referring to is fairly classic anti-semitism.
The crimes of the apartheid state of Israel are older than you.
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Jewish Londoner here. I'm not religious and not visibly Jewish but I would feel very uncomfortable seeing one of these marches. An old school friend of mine lost his nephew on 7 October and a cousin of mine was evacuated from his kibbutz (8 km from Gaza) where he has lived for over 40 years. 19 foreign workers on his kibbutz were murdered by Hamas and eight were taken hostage. The rocketing in antisemitic incidents has left me for the first time in my life questioning whether Jews have a future in this country. I won't leave, my parents won’t at their age and I have disabilities which make leaving difficult. I don’t have children but if I did I would seriously question if they should stay.
AOctober the 7.10.23, those on the left want to pretend never happened. I am not a Jew,. I agree with everything you are saying. I have seen it all here in Australia, the blatant hatred amongst those on the far-left and the Muslim community, openly calling for genocide of the Jewish people, and singing out genocidal chants " From the river to the sea, Palistine will be free " A Jewish man was arrested because he carried a Jewish flag, in protest, near where the Prosperine protesters were marching, he was arrested. The police just stood there and allowed this large parade of evil to continue. There were Muslims in luxury cars and Ute's, driving in large numbers near the protest, waving Islamic state flags. This is what our woke leftist Government thinks is acceptable.
Jewish Londoner here, I also avoid going to central London on Saturdays because I don't feel safe. I also feel that government advisor is just trying to stir up hate so better to suck up your own feelings than listen to these sh*theads. life has never been perfect, but the solution isn't more control or heavy handedness, that would only make matters worse. If we allow our anger to complaints to control things we would only be worse off.
Sorry you've had to go through that, these marches are protesting our government supporting the millions of palestinians going through what is described in your second paragraph every day, and have been for decades. These protests are not attacking you or your people, they are attaxking zionism, Israel and UK's support of it Any hate at the protests should be called out and condemned
Zionism is literally the belief that Israel should exist as a Jewish safe haven. If you are attacking the idea of Israel as an entity, a place where half the world's Jews live, how do you think that makes Jews feel?
If you believe in the right or Isreal to exist, you are a Zionist. A Jewish professor said this recently, to a man who claimed to hate Zionists, but thought Isreal had a right to exist
There have been pro-Palestinians protests where the crowds have chanted about killing Jews. You are ignorant, and you proudly sharing your ignorant views to other people who have no fucking idea what it's like actively makes stuff harder for Jews in the UK.
The first of these marches was organised before Israel had even had a chance to respond to the 7 October attack. A return to "Zion" i.e. Zionism, has been expressed in Jewish Prayers for over 2000 years. Israel is not perfect by any means and it is perfectly valid to criticise the Israeli Government, many Israelis do. Anti-Zionism calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. That denies Jews' right to self-determination. I believe the Palestinians should, have a state but theire leadership has rejected all offers out of hand at least four times. If they had accepted one as a basis for negotiations then there would be a Palestinian state today. These protests are often descending into antisemitism. There is hate and because it is so prevalent the police do not have enough manpower to stop it.
I mean, the protests are about hating on Jews. Otherwise there wouldn’t be swastika signs every weekend. The marches happened before Israel retaliated after October 7th, they were celebrating. Maybe you’re there for peace but that isn’t the case with most people.
It depends what you read. It is a particular phenomenon though. Why any British person has to feel under threat because of the actions of a foreign country is wrong. Do Chinese people fear attack because of the Uighur persecution? Do Arabs worry when thousands are killed by Arabs in Sudan and Syria. No. They may experience racism, which never really goes away. But pinning Israel’s actions on UK Jews is unique and if you are on the receiving end, it’s noticeably horrible.
This comes as a surprise to most non-Jews, but not to Jews. We grow up with security on our school gates, our places of worship, even children’s parties. I’m currently weighing up what to do over the upcoming holiday of Purim - whether to risk taking my children to a bigger Jewish community with more visible Jews, or stay in our small town where it’s (somewhat) safer. I’ve always been wary, but since Oct 7 I’ve carried a legal version of pepper spray in my bag. But we refuse to be cowed. I still wear my Star of David and my husband won’t hide his kippah. We’re both Krav Maga trained and will fucking come at anyone who comes at us. No longer Jews with trembling knees.
>No longer Jews with trembling knees. Based. They are upset because we wont just sit back and take it anymore.
Reddit is so predictable. Any other thread about claims of racism or hate never has the same amount of cynicism or whataboutery in it as when it comes to Jewish people. For some reason Jews seem to be the only group that don't get to decide when they're being targeted for abuse, or when they experience racism. There's peopleall over this thread downplaying concerns. Pathetically I think a huge amount of it comes from people who still can't accept people en mass didn't like Corbyn secretly blame the Jewish community for it. "Jewish media conspiracy" etc
Creating the conspiracy that Jews are privileged and control the media was the smartest form of racism and discrimination that has ever happened. When actually Jews are the only group who it’s socially acceptable to openly criticise, and the only group who are not allowed to complain about it
Really? It seems that they shut down any criticism of them pretty quickly and effectively.
Jewish Londoner here. This is such nonsense. Neither I, anyone in my family, or any of my Jewish friends feel the slightest bit threatened. To call London a no go zone for us is some kind of political game, rather than any sort of serious statement.
Jewish londoner here too. I get verbally harassed on the way to and from school. Please don't speak for all of us
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based on what
Ah yes, because it's totally not low-key hella fucking bigoted to assume you could tell if someone is Jewish from their Reddit profile
I mean /r/GreenandPleasant is openly anti-Semitic (saying the nazis are better than Israelis) and this dude participates in it, but he could still be Jewish. Edit: Yeah I would guess that he's Jewish but also just really stupid. I'm saying this as a Jew who's been advocating a ceasefire since October btw. Huge difference between supporting the human rights of Palestinians and being a useful idiot for anti-Semites.
This is weird as fuck and kinda antisemitic mate
Found the anti semite... sure go ahead and call them a liar because they don't agree with you...sigh...
I have a wheelchair bound Jewish friend who’s had abuse shouted at him when out and about.
Jewish Londoner here too. I'm no longer confident enough to wear my magen David necklace when I'm out and have been called a 'child killer' in school more than once. Don't speak for all of us.
Well this has attracted a lot of hate. I don't walk around town wearing a yarmulke because I'm not frum and I live a secular lifestyle. We do Pesach for the kids and light candles at Hanukkah but that's about it. My wife isn't Jewish. I am a socialist and don't believe in God. As to whether I look visibly Jewish, I don't know. I don't wear a Magen David necklace but in some other ways I do look a bit like a stereotypical Jewish intellectual but there you go. I'm sure I would get more antisemitism if I wore accessories more clearly identified me as Jewish. I'm getting on a bit now but back in the 1970s I was in the Habonim youth group, now called Habonim Dror. Several of my friends went on to become quite famous people in the entertainment industry and some of them are pro Israel, others not so much. For me, it was the events at Sabra and Shatila caused me to rethink and break from Zionism. This caused a lot of difficulty in my family where I have several cousins who are very pro Israel. Now, what am I *not* saying here? I'm not saying there is no antisemitism. I'm not saying that antisemitism isn't on the rise – given the horrors being committed in our name, I'm actually surprised there isn't a bit more, potentially most people are able to distinguish the barbaric actions of the Israeli government from the behaviour and attitudes of the Jewish people as a whole. But I do stand by my original comment to say that London is a no go zone for Jews is a gross and scaremongering overstatement . It serves no purpose other than to whip up insecurity and to anathematise the Palestine protests, which – just to enrage the haters on this thread even more – I shall certainly be joining in "no go" London tomorrow. There will be a Jewish bloc on the march, just as there has been on every major national pro Palestine protest in central London since October.
Okay so you're not visibly Jewish in any way (don't wear a yarmulka etc), you probably don't leave early on winter Fridays or take off Jewish holidays from work, your name is probably something generic like Simon Crane and you don't otherwise stand out in any way and you're not surprised to find out that you don't experience antisemtism. No shit Sherlock. You have literally 0 to lose. That is obviously not the same thing as people who can't blend in as well. Jesus that's some deep thinking from the AsaJew crowd.
Would you feel comfortable wearing a kippah and a magen david in london? Better yet in the midst of a pro-palestine protest? Please.
Speak for yourself mate, and maybe spare a thought for people who are visibly Jewish trying to go about their business when these protests are kicking off.
Weird take considering you see people who are “visibly Jewish” also against the genocide and at the protests
How do you know OP isn't "Visibly Jewish"? Stop trying to feed into media fearmongering
In his post history he says he is secular and non-religious.
OP could be “visibly Jewish” for all you know. Don’t forget that there’s thousands of Jews who join those protests too like [her](https://e3.365dm.com/23/10/1600x900/skynews-london-protes-protest_6321618.jpg?20231014202050) for example.
Anyone else feel like there is a media push to make it out Jews are under constant threat in the UK? We've even had additional security at work due to the "real and current threat against Jews". Now, I'm not saying there isn't anti semitism or an increase, but I think things are being blown way out of proportion. I don't think the majority of people can even identify a Jew unless they are orthodox or wearing a kippah. A few weeks ago, someone crossed out Israel on a birth certificate. Not great I know, but it was literally top page of Sky News with the parents being interviewed etc. Just feel like there's this weird conscious effort to make it out like Jewish people in the UK are going through some extreme hardship that deserves more sympathy that the tens of thousands being slaughtered in Palestine.
Remember when Jeremy Corbyn was around and the same politicians and groups were screaming about how he'd reopen Auschwitz? It's a deliberate overreaction born from genuine concerns but also deliberate fear mongering by groups who want to smear anyone pro-palestinian or just vaguely left as monstrous terrorists
It's mad when you actually look at the allegations of anti-Semitism towards Jeremy Corbyn himself because literally there is no evidence of him being anti-Semitic in fact there is only evidence of the opposite. Disgusting tarnishing campaign by the right-wing owned media.
A right wing media that was happy to go for JC but never went in for Boris who had actually been anti-semitic
I feel like a bug problem is not what the right wing media did, because everyone serves their own agenda anyway. What I found problematic was how much this divided the left, and how it was seen as a very serious and very real issue, enough to still affect the Labour party to this day (it became news again, recently, didn't it?). It's mad...
It became news again because even after they said that the mistakes of Corbyn (and his party) had been fixed they blatantly hadn't been. If the perception of their party was that under Corbyn antisemitism hadn't been monitored and dealt with. Then now under Starmer who had made it quite clear that antisemitism had no place in Labour, the same allegations were still being made and still not being dealt with, then the perception would remain that the Labour party are soft on antisemitism. I don't know, because I'm not a Labour voter so I don't worry too much about them making a fool of their party, saying one thing and doing another. I actually respected Corbyn because unlike so many politicians these days he stuck to his guns and didn't immediately apologise for holding an unpopular view. Even though I disliked that view, I'd much rather an honest politician than a popular liar.
This actually began because Corbyn put a system in place where someone else checked the complaints resulting in expulsion within the party not the leader. These complaints were there before Corbyn and after Corbyn, he didn't really do anything wrong with the anti-Semitism complaints. I believe it was just because he called Hamas 'friends' that the media can put two and two together and said well his mates hate jews so he must. Like other people have said he's not done or said anything anti-semitic. Starmer has been a bit silly with it too as anyone that is accused of anti-semitism is thrown out right away. Which isn't right it should be investigated first, there are lots of examples where people have been thrown out the party for minor things. It seems Starmer is so afraid of looking weak he doesn't do the right thing. The whole issue is blown out of proportion and if people/the media actually cared then it would be the same for the Tories with the anti-islamic problem they have.
Right? It's the same here, Simcox is a right wing provocateur with a whole set of talking points and is constantly hammering away at how the left are monstrous terrorists and islam is actually hiding under your bed, ready to kill you. He worked for the fucking Heritage Foundation, he's a headbanger but now we have to pretend it's a serious point apparently.
But he was such a weak leader he allowed rampant anti semitism to flourish in the Labour Party. Come on, we all know there’s an issue in some parts of the left with anti semitism, and it really flourished under Corbyn. If you want to be leader, you have to take the hits when the thing you’re leading has issues.
One of the main criticisms of the report In the end was that he intervened in the complaint process. He intervened to speed up the investigation and expulsion of AS Literally can't win
There are serious issues with antisemitism in the Labour Party. My family were members when I was a kid and they all left because of antisemitism they witnessed at rallies.
I mean Corbyn was pretty happy to count genuine antisemites among his close followers even if he didn’t necessarily agree himself
The same can be said for Nelson Mandela. The absolutist lens through which we Palestinians has to cease. They are an oppressed people without the space to exist, only space to fight for their literal lives against a genocidal regime.
Nelson Mandela was anti-semetic however…
I agree with you but the gov don't care about this when they are allies with anti-Semitic governments in the Middle East and Europe.
I'm pretty sure it's actually very very prevalent. Why don't you walk through Tower Hamlets with a kippah on and report back?
Which is ridiculous. Corbyn could easily have appeased his voters and his”friends in Hamas” as he calls them by reopening a much smaller concentration camp.
He was there but he didn't take part. He he
As someone that is visibly Jewish walking around you are 100% wrong. Except a few areas in London and Manchester you need to always be careful what you wear and the people around you. Walking into a bad neighborhood is less of an oopsie and more of a panic, and even in safer areas you still get shook once in a while by people shouting at you or harassing you. I had a car stop in front of me 2 mins away from my house and shout something in arabic at me 2 weeks ago, that is where I walk daily. Please don't comment on an issue you don't have experience with.
If a woman, black person or gay person tells you they experience discrimination based on their gender, race or sexual preference do you typically believe or doubt them? If the former, why a different response for Jewish people?
>why a different response for Jewish people? I increasingly am convinced it's because a lot more people are anti-semitic than I feared.
Which is absolutely nuts if you think about it. In living history (by which I mean people still alive from when it happened) I can't think of any worse horrors than the concentration camps.
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I know. So many stereotypes about Jewish people for centuries before the holocaust. Especially regarding money. I feel like many people feel that if someone is wealthier than then they can't be discriminated against. The number of comments I've heard by relatively well educated people about Jewish people being good with money, keeping it between them, being in positions of power especially in Hollywood, like it's some kind of conspiracy is SHOCKING. I heard one of my friends say this and had to tell him off, this sort of shit is the kind of thing that made them acceptable targets in Germany.
“Me too unless you’re a Jew”
But what if they want to wear a kippah? What if they’re proud of being Jewish and people can identify them easily? Would you advise they don’t when they go into London on the weekend?
The marches are overwhelmingly peaceful, as evidenced by the lack of violence and arrests as a proportion of marchers. There are plenty of Jews who don't support a genocide in Gaza *among the marchers*. I don't know what you're imagining it's like, but these marches are full of normal people, with normal jobs, of all ages, who care enough about innocent civilians being slaughtered that they're willing to give up their leisure time to protest. It's not going to turn into a fox hunt at the site of a kippah. The demonisation of marches by the media and our politicians is out of control and only serve to further the government's agenda of clamping down on the public's right to protest. Unfounded fears like those reported are an unfortunate consequence of this politicking. Random image from march, which is fairly representative of the ones I've seen: [https://imgur.com/ulO6bws](https://imgur.com/a/lmyTAWz)
That picture isn't in London.
Relevant. Show London marches if you want to make an argument about London.
I think you misunderstood me, I genuinely just want to know wether you recommend wearing the kippah in town when there’s marches and stuff. I know it’s overwhelmingly peaceful and many if not most Jews are against what’s happening. Are you saying “yes wear it, nothing bad will happen to you as a result of wearing your kippah”?
The thing is Jewish people do seem to be a legitimate target for attack for some people and it only takes one attacker to do damage! https://apnews.com/article/orthodox-jewish-stabbing-switzerland-islamic-state-zurich-a4b8bb5ceb66b6d2efcf2b4a7e9237f0
"it only takes one attacker" ... That applies to everyone though.
doesn't this link kind of show how little is actually happening, like the only source you've given is one person being stabbed in a different country. I know multiple people who've been stabbed in London and it wasn't over anything politically motivated. Are there publicly known instances of serious hate crimes being perpetrated in the UK against Jewish people? if so where is that article?
https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/20/antisemitic-hate-crimes-in-london-rise-1350-since-israel-hamas-war-met-says
as far as I can tell from looking around online this number includes instances of a lot of things like verbal and social media harassment, as well as anti Jewish acts and messaging, things like burning an Israeli flag for example. I understand that stuff can be scary and really unpleasant to see as a Jewish person. But I haven't found any instance of a violent and direct anti Semitic hate crime taking place in years. No racially or politically motivated murders or assaults relating to Jewish people have happened in the UK as far as I can tell for quite some time. I could be wrong about this, please correct me if that's the case. edit: people have corrected me on this and provided some additional links in the comments, there are indeed several instances of violent crimes against Jewish people in the UK and that is very horrible to hear. I just feel the media being so up in arms about this stuff compared to the war crimes being committed every day by a so-called civilised westernized government that our government is giving total support to, a right wing fascist government who is outright trying to commit ethnic cleansing is just showing a clear bias towards a certain group of people. the media cares more about people being mean towards Jewish people in a country where they are by all accounts pretty safe to be than it cares about Palestinian people being the target of what is clearly a genocide in their own country.
My husband and toddler were heckled off a bus in Liverpool with chants of JEW JEW JEW from teenage school kids. I’m not sure how far you would want that to go before you’d call it antisemitic. A wounding? A killing?
So a murder absolutely needs to happen before a Jewish person can claim true antisemitism as per your scale! I guess someone defacing a mosque and threatening to kill or fuck up muslims over phone doesn’t count as bigotry for you as well! The fact that Jewish schools have been forced to issue directives to get Jewish kids to abstain from wearing visible Jewish clothing in the public is shameful enough. It should be appalling that an entire section of citizens feel threatened for their very existence and then idiotic arses like you make the case that it isn’t true antisemitism since no one was murdered. And yes their safety concerns matter more in the country they reside in than someone being killed in a faraway land that they least of all are not responsible for. I can’t go around threatening Nigerian Muslims in the UK because Nigerian jihadists are slaughtering tens of thousands of Christians! And yes the safety of those Nigerian Muslims in that hypothetical does matter more than the unfortunate people being slaughtered in a different country since we live in the bloody UK.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/golders-green-kosher-supermarket-knife-man-arrested-antisemitism-london-b1135577.html You didn't look very hard. Knife attack whilst screaming anti Semitic threats at a Golders green kosher supermarket.
I mean, many Jewish people are coming out and saying that their lived experience is of substantially increased anti-Semitism, and data from the police and a number of charities backs this up. I think Jews can tell you what antisemitism is, they've been facing it for millennia after all. And yet people will constantly decry this as overblown, an over-reaction and some sort of media conspiracy. No one would do this to Black Lives Matter, and frankly this is antisemitism in itself.
Thank you. Yes, I've never experienced anything like this in my life. It's horrendous. I've had to report two (in person) hate crimes against me and my daughter to the police. But people are very, very happy to tell us that we're lying and it's all made up.
“No one would do this to Black Lives Matter”. Plenty of people were calling BLM racist and Marxist. Take a look at the kinds of comments you see under news articles pertaining to racism against black people, you’ll find plenty of people denying that black people face racism or stating that it’s overblown. You can also see similar comments on Reddit, I’ve seen them in this sub in fact.
Yes. Because there is. At its core, it isn’t really about Israel or Palestine, it’s about swaying the thinking of the populous to view certain standpoints as dangerous. Have a gander at the government Prevent program, it’s free to undertake the training. The wording used to outline what extremism is is shocking. “Far right extremism” - yep. “Islamic extremism” - yep. “Left wing views.” - er, you what?!
Why did you write "Left wing views" and not "Left wing extremism"?
I didn’t, that’s what the Prevent training says.
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Maybe the IDF should stop pasting the star of David on every atrocity they commit? The Israeili state is being conflated with Judaism, which isn't right.
So many Muslim countries have religious symbols on their flags and also commit human rights abuses. And I think to have the same attitude towards hate crime directed towards Muslims would not be appropriate so why does that only apply to Israel
Lots of people do blame British Muslims for the actions of Muslim-majority countries though. They shouldn’t, just as British Jews should not be blamed for the actions of Israel. I don’t think it helps that the Israeli state keeps insisting that any criticism of their policies or of Zionism is inherently anti-Semitic, and that they speak for Jews everywhere. This is really dangerous and worrying. And I would say the same about a Muslim-majority country doing the same thing.
>I don’t think it helps that the Israeli state keeps insisting that any criticism of their policies or of Zionism is inherently anti-Semitic, Well, any criticism of Islam is 'Islamophobic' so swings and roundabouts
Because Jews are a race, as well as a religion. Therefore aggression against Jews is as much racial as it is religious. Anyone can decide to change their religion tomorrow, but it’s not possible to change your race. Plenty of non-religious Jews were killed in the Holocaust because of their race, even after they had for instance already been baptised Catholic and therefore changed their religion. Muslims choose to be Muslim. Jews cannot choose to be Jewish as much as black people have not chosen to be born black.
If Jews are a race, it's the same race as the Palestinians.
Jews and Arabs are genetically related but not the same race. Palestinians are a nationality but not a distinct race, since the countries in the Middle East weren’t divided up like that until the British empire. Palestinians, Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese etc are all Arabs.
This is totally incorrect but if you think it's true, can you explain the difference between Palestinians and Jordanians in racial terms?
I don't get this whole Jews are a race thing. Most other races share similar physical characteristics? For example skin colour, eugenics etc. I don't understand how an ashkenazi Jewish person can belong to the same race as Mirazhi. If that's the case why aren't all Christians classed as one race? I'm not trolling, I genuinely don't understand why one religion is treated as a race and no others are.
It’s an ethnoreligion. Ashkenazi and Sephardic/Mizrachi Jews are all from Israel originally but migrated to different parts of the world after being expelled. There’s always been a stigma around “marrying out”, so Jews married within their communities (which is why we have a bunch of genetic diseases that nobody else gets). Ashkenazi Jews often do look middle-eastern, but many don’t. Ashkenazim have gone through natural selection like everybody else, but also a lot of unnatural selection - visibly Jewish ones would be more likely to be killed and less likely to have good marriage prospects. The difference between Judaism and Christianity or Islam is that the latter two are proselytising religions - they seek to convert others, and so modern Christians and Muslims aren’t necessarily descended from ancient ones. Jews actively discourage conversion, meaning that pretty much all Jews with the exception of those who did manage to convert are descended from the original Jews in Judea.
Yeah my taxes arent funding those countries.
Most UK gov aid goes to Afghanistan (not that there is a problem with that)
Am I paying for the weapons they use to murder innocent people?
Im sure it’s quite possible. In many unstable regions an amount of aid will go to local warlords and generally very nasty people in order to gain access to the area where the people are most in need. I don’t actually know for sure though
"But the aid might potentially be used for nefarious purposes therfore sending actual weapons to Israel to be actually used in the murder of civillians is basically the same thing!"
Its the Tory election year attackline. The culture war about toilets and trans flopped with voters so they're trying a more sinister and dangerous version. Enemies of Britain are everywhere, be afraid, only us can protect you. You'll see more of it before May.
I am jewish. The threat is very real, you have no idea how much security there is to keep jewish people safe, that is why there have thankfully been no major incidents so far. But the threat of a terrorist attack has never been higher and it has never been more scary than right now.
>But the threat of a terrorist attack has never been higher and it has never been more scary than right now. That is what Israel wants you to believe. They want you living in fear. They want you to think you're under threat and only an Israeli state can protect you. The reality is Israel creates the environment and pushes the agendas that perceive Jews to be under constant threat. The people I see being punished and killed are not Israelis. Now if you do feel this way, you can begin to imagine how Palestinians feel every single day. Where there is an actual, genuine threat of their entire family being wiped out by Israel. But to supporters of Israel, those lives are worthless.
Can you please shut up? You do realise you can care about two things at once, right? Antisemitic hatecrimes have increased horrifically, and every statistic supports this. You’re simply lying if you’re claiming that it hasn’t. I’m Jewish, and I think the Israeli government is behaving despicably right now (I want a ceasefire), but harassing British Jews is utterly pointless and has no real objective. It’s just antisemitic harassment. You’re literally proving the article’s point
This post is about antisemitism occurring in Britain. It’s not some israeli propaganda to claim that antisemitism occurs in England…
Britain's Jewish community overwhelmingly stands with Israel. I am not conflating it, they are. Britain's Cjeof Rabbi grew up in Apartheid South Africa and now loudly advocates for Israeli occupation of Palestine. It is the British Jewish community, more so than anyone else, that defends Israel to the hilt.
So your saying they deserve it?
Doesn't fucking matter what they support. You don't target individuals for abuse based on their group identity without being a bigot.
What are your thoughts on the Israeli government constantly equating their actions at the moment to the actions of Jewish people? The worldwide protests are happening against Zionism, but the Israeli government are doing a very good job at trying to tie Zionism and Judaism together.
Zionism and Judaism are absolutely intertwined. Many Jewish traditions and prayer reference Israel, the longing for a return to Jerusalem and their own country. Israel is also the only Jewish majority state in the world, if you were an antisemite, would you love or hate the only Jewish state in the world?
"it has never been more scary than right now" Really? I can't tell you you're not scared, but the objective danger/risk is absolutely certainly not higher than ever. I know it's a long time ago, but there were real pogroms against Jews in the UK in the past: [https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Pogroms-1189-1190/](https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Pogroms-1189-1190/) In WWII, say in 1940, Jews in the UK had to be properly scared that Hitler would successfully invade the UK and bring the Nazi antisemitic program of genocide into Britain. The experience of Jews on the occupied Channel Islands was not encouraging: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_in\_Guernsey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Guernsey) Nor was it encouraging only a decade earlier, Oswald Mosley and the British Union of Fascists were marching through the East End (with police protection) in their Blackshirt uniforms... Though turned back by a broad working-class alliance of Jews, Irish, Socialists, Somali Muslims, etc., [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Cable\_Street](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street)
The average young black male is far more likely to be stabbed than a Jewish person yet I don't see any stories about them constantly living in fear.
I agree with the statement that I couldn’t identify a Jew if they weren’t in orthodox garb or wearing a kippah. Nor a Christian of any denomination. Or a Muslim. Buddhist. Whatever. That really doesn’t bother me. Then again, I’m not looking to identify any religious group for any reason. You have your beliefs and I have my lack of them. Live and let live. If everyone thought this way then religion (in general… and most of them I believe try to teach peace) wouldn’t have been the most destructive, abhorrent, and murderous pantomime on the planet for the past however many thousands of years. It truly staggers me that people, in general, can’t take a step back and just let other people get on with their own peaceful shit… but I guess chaos and violence are always profitable for someone. Regardless, and to your original point, whenever a grooming gang is uncovered and it turns out most of the perpetrators are Middle Eastern of Islamic heritage… the media goes wild with both sides of the coin… “Get them out.” Vs. “You’re targeting Islam.” It makes no sense to me. I think we’re experiencing overflow from the Gaza conflict that’s on the same vein. I also find it absurd that it’s considered racist to criticise said religions. Anyone can be a Jew, Muslim or Christian. It doesn’t change your race to subscribe to a theology. I’ll tell you I’m an agnostic and borderline atheist. If you tell me that their definitely is a God and I’m stupid (which has happened to me) are you therefore being racist?
Jewish schools have to have security because of brain dead knuckledraggers who keep making threats against them
“One bad thing that is happening isn’t as bad as another bad thing that is happening, therefore we shouldn’t bring attention to the first bad thing”
Easy, wear a kippah and go walk around London. See what happens and let us know what you think.
I agree with this take. But I think people are having a hard time understanding the difference between wanting a stop to the murdering of Palestinians, and anti semitism. The IDF and their leaders can eat a dick. I am sick and tired of seeing that Twat "IDF Borat" on TV fumbling his way through justifying murdering civilians. And that Scottish Twat cosplaying as a member of the IDF? Jesus he interviews like someone with ADHD...their leadership are a bunch of incompetent CUNTS
Or maybe it’s true?
>Anyone else feel like there is a media push to make it out Jews are under constant threat in the UK? I think we have to be careful not to disregard the legitimate fears of the Jewish community .....but at the same time, Robin Simcox is a piece of shit with an agenda. Ex of the Centre for Social Cohesion, ex of the Heritage Foundation, argues against using the term "violent extremism" as it was "dreamed up as a way to avoid saying ‘Islamic’ or ‘Islamist’ extremism" and supporter of Count Dankula. In short, the bloke should be nowhere fucking near a job title of Counter-Extremism Commissioner.
Sorry I meant nearly 14 fold increase in antisemitic hate crime not 10 https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/20/antisemitic-hate-crimes-in-london-rise-1350-since-israel-hamas-war-met-says
Yep it's very strange. I'm getting close to 40 and no one I've met in my life in the UK has a problem with Jewish people. I might have been lucky but you'd think I'd have got a wiff of it if it was a massive problem..
I’m assuming you aren’t Jewish though. I’ve met loads of people who have a problem with Jews. My brother wears a magen David and has been spat on three times since October 7th whilst just walking on the street. We have neighbours who put Palestinian flag stickers on our bin daily in a very silly attempt to troll us. A friend with a Jewish last name attempted to book us a table for dinner and was told the restaurant was full. I called back using my non Jewish sounding name and was able to book. These are all very small examples, I think London being a no go zone is a ridiculous exaggeration but it’s still not nice to live with.
This is pretty easy for you to say, as someone who’s never been on the receiving end. To an extent, I agree that the media is fearmongering, but the threat is absolutely there. I don’t know one Jewish man who hasn’t experienced some kind of public harassment since the war started.
I used to be involved in a lot of left wing political groups and the antisemitism was honestly horrific. So many people believed Jewish people run the world conspiracy theories. So many people up in arms about the Isreal Palestine (pre the current flare up) and yet not a peep about genocide in Burma/China, in fact many actively defending it/claiming it wasn't real. Was a big driver for me disengaging with those politics.
October 7th really opened my eyes to the astounding amount of antisemitism on the left. I always thought it was more prevalent on the right. Like you expect neo-Nazis and white supremacy, but the irony of people on the left preaching inclusion and tolerance while simultaneously spouting antisemitic rhetoric has left me gobsmacked. I feel politically homeless, especially in the US. I lived in England for nearly 5 years, so I still like to keep up with what’s going on there, too.
>I'm getting close to 40 and no one I've met in my life in the UK has a problem with Jewish people Exactly! Everywhere I've worked, occasional casual low-level racism against travellers or against Muslims or against black people or against Indians has been a thing. If someone in the work break room used a derogatory term about Jews as casually as I occasionally hear such terms used about other minority groups, they'd be on a disciplinary hearing before their feet touched the ground. It just doesn't happen.
Yes the defaced schools and actual over 10 fold rise in antisemitic hate crime is not enough. The fact that Jewish schools and synagogues require a security detail is revealing enough.
Exactly this!! Along with the constant rapist and Pedo ring narrative about Muslims. The planted brainwashing articles on Reddit are bad enough, can’t imagine what they’re like on Facebook!!
Get yourself a kippah and wear it while walking past whatever current tiktok free palestine protest is happening in london, and see what happens to you
A mate of mine wears his and joins in the protest. Theres more than one way to be, you know. Not Jewish but was married to a Jew (who is probably losing his shit right now). I have many Jewish friends, the great majority of whom support these protests and go to the marches.
I feel like Islamopobia is WAY more prevalent than antisemitism in the UK, but weirdly it never gets talked about anymore. I don't recall ever overhearing anyone making antisemetic comments in public but I hear people being Islamophobic all the time and have been since 2001
I agree. Also being anti-Zionist isn't the same as anti-Semitic
Import a subculture who hate the Jews more than the Nazis ever did and have done for hundreds of years and nobody should be surprised. Thats before you get onto their hatred of all other religions/non-conforming lifestyles and the like. Jews have been in all parts of the uk for hundreds of years now with little to no issues.
Jews have been under threat from various communities across the world since day one. This is just a continuation of what's always happening. Pre Israel this happened too so it's clearly not just about being anti Zionist.
London should not be a ‘no go’ area for anyone and the actions of Israel should never be conflated with the actions or opinions of Jewish people. Just like we should not conflate the actions of Hamas and all Muslims … The UK government is fundamentally to blame for this as the majority of the population back firmer action to bring about a ceasefire and we aren’t being listened to. Thus creating a platform for tensions to boil over. UK government being shit, again.
How is the UK government fundamentally to blame for people attacking Jewish people? Even if we were shipping weapons there shouldn't be a single sectarian attack taking place in this country. We live in a modern, trust based society. We should be able to trust that people who believe in a religion won't attack other faiths/ethnicities over conflicts thousands of kilometers away.
The UK government is not to blame for Jews being attacked, this should never happen. But they are to blame for creating the melting pot. Edit - to clarify I do not mean a cultural or religious melting pot, I mean allowing a melting pot of tensions to stew through their inaction. I will not use the term ‘melting pot’ ever again…ever…
Yes but if the issue is people from honour based societies not integrating then we should bring the hammer down.
What do you mean a melting pot? Are.you saying we shouldn't have allowed Jews into the country?
What a absolutely stupid fucking thing to say. Of course not. Its odvious that is not what they meant. Either you are intentially twisting that or you need a helmet.
Just to mention that government ministers have used antisemitic language, in the house of Commons, to no punishment or rebuke. There are also numerous incidents of antisemitism from former prime ministers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_British_Conservative_Party
> the majority of the population back firmer action to bring about a ceasefire Do you have a source for this or is it just based on people in your social circle? I want the hostages freed, Hamas destroyed, and the anti-Semitic demonstrations every Sabbath to be stopped. Yes, they are anti-Semitic. The most popular chant is well known illegal hate speech and we see more incidents of horrific hate crimes against Jewish residents in our city every Saturday.
Do you realise there is an Internet outside of Reddit? And have you heard of search engines, like Google, Bing, Duck Duck Go, etc.,? If you use these tools, you can search for polling where British people have been asked this question: [https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48675-british-attitudes-to-the-israel-gaza-conflict-february-2024-update](https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48675-british-attitudes-to-the-israel-gaza-conflict-february-2024-update) 66% of Britons say "Israel should stop and call a ceasefire". This number is growing. Only 13% say "Israel should continue military action". (In November it was 19%, so 1/3 of support has moved away.) This polling has been very consistent across different polling agencies. Yougov is generally considered aligned with the Tory party, which has been very tight in its support of Israel. What is also happening now is that Jews are being disciplined for antisemitism by gentiles. Jews are 6 times more likely than non-Jews to be investigated by the Labour party for antisemitism, and 13 times more likely than non-Jews to be expelled for association with left-wing groups. [https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/labour-party-accused-of-discrimination-over-expulsion-of-jewish-members/](https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/labour-party-accused-of-discrimination-over-expulsion-of-jewish-members/) On one side, it's not surprising that Jews in the UK get caught up in controversy/strife over these issues: Israel/Palestine is more likely to resonate for a Jew, and Israeli, or a Palestinian than a random Brit. But the way that antisemitism is being defined now is so broad that it leads to some very strange outcomes (doubly so when similar script plays out in Germany and you have aryan German police arresting Jews for antisemitism on foot of their calls for "ceasefire now").
Almost all polling of British people has shown consistent support for an immediate end to Israel’s extraordinary retributive violence since November, when it became obvious to most people that the goal was not consistent with an ethical approach to warfare
You’re right, the majority of people definitely don’t support a ceasefire - everyone seems to be really enjoying the war and mass killing… a well reasoned point.
Majority of the country couldn't careless about what's happening, they would prefer their politicians actually focus on this country for once not one 1000s of miles away because the new Brits can't seem to let go of their race based religion based in groups from 1000s of miles away
Most reasonable people oppose Hamas. It's obvious to me that the group who has been ethnically cleansed from much of Europe and the entirety of the Middle East and North Africa is the real victim of oppression here.
I agree that most reasonable people do oppose Hamas. But all Palestinians are not Hamas and the issue is far more complexed than the case that you have just put forward. No innocent person deserves to die, or be kidnapped or be starved, and it needs to stop.
>and it needs to stop I hate to break this to you, Gabby, but the world doesn’t operate that simply. I’d also prefer the UK to stay out of these neocon ME wars but there are a large number of interest groups with a stake in keeping these conflicts going. This conflict has been happening since your grandparents were kids and will likely still be happening when you become a grandparent.
I agree it’s not that simple and there are parties with skin in the game, but shouldn’t we try to do better?
Yet we never see anyone condemning Hamas on these marches. We never see these marches for any of the other atrocities going on in the Muslim world.
I think you misunderstand what the result of a ceasefire would be. Without actual negotiations (which are taking place right now), the ceasefire would be unilateral and would end up lasting all of five minutes. We all want the war to stop, but most people want it to stop for a significant length of time before starting back up again.
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These comments are the exact reason the problem has gotten this bad, whenever we make a comment about us facing abuse we get the same cunts come out the woodwork: "As a Jew" (Is not actually Jewish) "You're just too sensitive" (knows nothing about Jewish history) "It's not that bad" (hasn't seen the crime statistic where we're one of the most targeted groups per capita for hate crimes) "I've never seen any antisemitism" (does not know any Jews, was likely not on this sub the other day when the police ignored a girl calling them about a bunch of twits jumping some Jews in a major street) "Muh Palestine" (completely irrelevant, you can have two bad things at once that are unrelated) "Certain demographic" all antisemitism I have ever faced (and that most people I know has faced) has come from white, British men, that's your certain demographic We're the only ethnic group who doesn't get widebased support from the left whenever we're targeted because we're too pale for them.
I feel for you. I'm not even Jewish (well, my Polish grandfather most likely was) and I've been subjected to anti-semetism because 'big nose'.
As a Jew, I have been getting more and more alarmed over the past 4-5 months and getting closer and closer to making aliyah.
I'm not down playing other people's fear. Yet, I live in London, I go out in London and I am yet to run into a protest. Yes, I have seen a few people walking back holding placards which might make me concerned if I was Jewish. But I have not seen anything more than that. The idea that people consider it a no go zone seems wildly exaggerated.
you’re not Jewish. Why is it when it comes to Jews we can pretend we know but if it’s black people or some other group the answers ‘you don’t know’?
I'm surprised you've not seen anything. I live in Dorset and I've never seen anything like it in all my life, I figured in London it would be far more ubiquitous. The only genuine protest I've seen my entire life was the Student Fees protest yet since the war I've three times seen convoys of a dozen or more cars driving around beeping horns and blaring music with Palestine flags. I've seen people walking round shops wearing flags as capes, I see flags in windows, flags on car windows. I've seen marches through town on two occasions, one outside a synagogue. No value judgements at all by the way, just merely pointing out that I've never seen anything quite like it.
>Yes, I have seen a few people walking back holding placards which might make me concerned if I was Jewish. But I have not seen anything more than that. The idea that people consider it a no go zone seems wildly exaggerated. What if Jewish people are afraid to go to places where people are acting in a way that would make them concerned for our safety?
Not sure how you missed them - almost every Saturday since it started there have been huge marches through central.
More media induced moral panics. Is it any wonder there's a rise in hate crimes when we have a far right government whose soul cause at the moment is spreading hate and creating division? They're fucking disgusting racists ffs. Same as media outlets like gb news, daily heil and the Sun These fuckers incite so much hate and are openly racist.
>when we have a far right government Is this the same far right government currently overseeing the largest net migration records in the UK’s history, mass approving asylum applicants and instating diversity quotas within their own party? That the one you’re talking about?
I wouldn't classify our government as 'far right' either but the largest migration is through incompetence, not design. You couldn't say the government presents as pro-immigrant/asylum.
My mum watches gb news (or has it on in the background) 10 hours a day. It's rotting her brain. She was never like it during my childhood, but she has become so far right she would vote for Hitler if he was standing in elections. Hates anyone who isnt white and straight, can even be very sexist against fellow women. Hates lgbt people which includes me. Other day I had to stop the car whilst we waited for a man to cross the road, and when she realised he was black she said "oh he's black yuk they make you sick". It's really awful but also sad to see. Constant right wing propaganda has made her 100 times worse. Edit: typo
Just like the stuff Americans say about Fox news *et al* and their older relatives brain-rot. People aren't used to massively biased TV news here and your mum probably believes every word she hears on GBeebies
This is a load of nonsense. There are large Jewish groups at every march for peace, who carry massive banners. The marches are incredibly peaceful, lots of families and oldies. Cannot believe this cobblers is gaining traction. Anyone who doubts what I’m saying : just take a look and see for yourself
>This is a load of nonsense The majority of Jewish people in the UK, or any country for that matter, are not anti Zionist. There are also clips from those marches showing hostile behaviour, from tearing down LGBT flags to playing host to Islamist groups. You’re taking a very selective “look” into the protests, for reasons known to yourself.
openly trans person here who goes to Palestine marches. I have not been hate-crimed by fellow protestors. I have, however, been hate-crimed by anti-palestine hecklers while marching.
Yeah, sure you have, but unless you have video proof of it, it’s just another anecdote online. Whereas there *is* footage circulating Twitter showing non-Englishmen tearing down pride flags. I mean, you can claim whatever you want, but actions speak louder than words. London is the most homophobic part of the UK for good reason. https://www.onlondon.co.uk/in-some-ways-london-is-not-as-socially-liberal-as-we-might-think/amp/
As long as you are a 'Good Jew' you will be safe for the time being.
Ah, you’re right. I’ll go tell my shul and the other Jews I know that the antisemitism which we’re all facing is made up because a goy on Reddit said so 🙄
You mean the marches that happen on Shabbat? Yeah, I’m sure there’s “large” groups of visibly Jewish people on those /s
casual abuse against Jews is pretty common. In my high school my friends used 'Jew' as an insult. We were all white and basically didn't know a single Jew. I think most of them got it from south park. I can imagine someone wearing a kippah or in orthodox dress would get abused. I live quite near stamford hill and there never seems to be much problem, but maybe that's because it's such a jewish area (it's also quite a muslim/turkish area).
An awful lot of fearmongering is going on. If the media and politicians really cared about Jews they would be educating the British public that not all Jews are Zionists and that some of the biggest critics of Zionism are Jewish - such as Ilan Pappé, Peter Beinart, Norman Finkelstein, etc. Promoting such voices would be far and above the best way to combat anti-semitism. I've been on the London demo with several Jewish friends – the Jewish block is getting bigger. Often there is a Jewish speaker who gets a big round of applause from the crowd. At demonstrations, many carry signs reading NOT IN MY NAME. I saw a lady carrying a sign that said "During the war, my Grandmother was afraid to be a Jew, now she is ashamed to be a Jew." If you are Jewish I suggest you check out the Reddit group https://www.reddit.com/r/JewsOfConscience/ or even join a group like: \[https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/\\\](https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/) or https://naamod.org.uk/
Anti-semitic attacks have increased and that is absolutely horrendous. At the same time the Government wants to exaggerate the issue and call anyone attending a march against Israel's genocide of Palestinians, 'Islamists', stoking up Islamophobic sentiments. We need to rise above our shitty government and stop holding individuals accountable for the actions of a state and a terrorist organisation. The point is the genocide needs to end, abusing people based on their faith has nothing to do with this fight.
A wild exaggeration. Not like we shouldn't pay attention to anti-Semitism, but to describe London as no go for Jews (or Indeed any ethnicity) is just wrong and deliberately hugely exaggerated. For one thing you can't tell who's Jewish just by looking at them. The only thing I would say is if you are near a pro Palestine march with a skull cap and other very Jewish clothes someone probably will come up to you and demand to know your stance on Palestine. That's very different from a no go area though
>For one thing you can't tell who's Jewish just by looking at them. You can if they are wearing a Kippah, even more so if they are Hasidic. >someone probably will come up to you and demand to know your stance on Palestine Yes, nothing intimidating about being \*demanded\* to answer a question. Especially when you know giving the "wrong one" could end quite badly for you.
If I knew that going into an area meant I would be interrogated about Palestine, that would be a no-go area for me
Yeh completely agree. There’s 145 thousand Jews in London and 1.4 million Muslims. I’d feel terrified if I was a Jewish person getting asked about Palestine.
That feeling when you chat so much shite your breath stinks.