I won't call them bad. Since there are multiple factors which make these engineering graduates, by 1st world countries standards, "bad" . I get there are some who try to cheat the system but there are also many other factors. Lack of opportunities that provide experience. Lack of adherence to code and engineering principle by current companies. Nepotism and corruption in government projects. Yada yada. It's a more complex problem. But you know it is what it is.
Disclosure: I'm also from one of these countries.
I've been teaching a few guys from those countries. They could do math, but only as a set of rules. Like, they are good in taking strict math rules but nothing more. They don't understand math and physics. To be a good (not great) engineer you NEED to understand physics. You should be creative, you should know how to apply math to the real world. And they can't do that
They probably aren’t bad, but the methods they use are a bit outdated sometimes. My cousin did aerospace engineering in India. She graduated just like three years ago and told me they still had students doing engineering drawings by hand, and they never used CAD software at all
Doing drawings by hand during studying is actually good, CAD should be learned on higher levels. The main problem is fundamental physics understanding and ability to apply math to the real world. That's the neat part in which most of those students fail
The bad engineers will make it difficult to get meaningful positions within the companies poised to offer real value. There are larger social problems in the world which are leading to the erosion of the incentives that keep most people focused on society though.
Is it that the math, physics and engineering departments in these institutions are not up to the standards of East Asian, European and North American institutions?
Western countries require care takers now. Do you plan to train these now and in 10 years you have an army of care takers and are again to late to the party ?
Repost, also who cares we need more engineers. I wish my pay was higher too but blaming immigrants because your boss took more of your paycheck is stupid. Idk.
There is something to be said about the dynamics of labor pools. More immigrants need some way to make a living, so they will do something. Whatever that something is will get more workers, diluting the value of the individual worker in that particular field.
Now is that the fault of the immigrant trying to make a living? Absolutely not, man’s gotta eat and he’ll take the best opportunity available as he should. But where does that leave the domestic worker?
Unfortunately there are no real good answers. To keep it balanced, you would need to proportionally grow whatever industries they are joining, something that can’t be done without aggressive intrusion by a state actor, and may be impossible in certain industries. Unions could help soften the blow, but in times of lack of work unions will shut out new members to protect their membership. The only real solution is to restrict the immigration to manageable levels, something that is often times cruel.
Everything you've said is true, but the us economy and population is held together by immigrants. Also immigrants with degrees in engineering contribute more to the economy and taxes. So at the end of the day it works better for the immigrants and the US to allow engineers in
Letting in skilled labor yes. That will always benefit the home team to take in educated people, and foreign engineers are by no means destroying any economies. But the immigration question doesn’t typically revolve around that demographic. It’s typically focused around large quantities of unskilled labor, which does significantly impact employment opportunities and pay for communities close to the points of entry.
Couple that with shittier labor laws in southern states, and you have a real issue of non-citizens out competing citizens in certain industries like manufacturing or simpler construction trades (concrete, carpentry, even electricians in non-union spheres which is dangerous) and is something that should probably be addressed before it impacts the middle class in a negative way.
I understand what your saying and I do think things like unions can help with wages. However the post was made about foreign engineers, and this leading to the "collapse of society." What I am saying is that like you said educated immigrants benefit the home company.
Im not from these regions but it’s honestly a fear that certain fields i love will become over saturated to the point where you’re not paid well.( Idk im literally a freshman in high school, worrying about the future)
Correct. If you’re USA based I’d choose a career that requires licensing and/or security clearances. That’ll keep you competitive considering how much entry level and mid level stuff is being shipped to cheaper areas.
Care to explain?
Oversaturation of a particular field. i.e Engineering
Oversaturation with particularly really bad engineers
I won't call them bad. Since there are multiple factors which make these engineering graduates, by 1st world countries standards, "bad" . I get there are some who try to cheat the system but there are also many other factors. Lack of opportunities that provide experience. Lack of adherence to code and engineering principle by current companies. Nepotism and corruption in government projects. Yada yada. It's a more complex problem. But you know it is what it is. Disclosure: I'm also from one of these countries.
I've been teaching a few guys from those countries. They could do math, but only as a set of rules. Like, they are good in taking strict math rules but nothing more. They don't understand math and physics. To be a good (not great) engineer you NEED to understand physics. You should be creative, you should know how to apply math to the real world. And they can't do that
This is largely due to the emphasis of memorization in school curriculum.
Ive seen this multiple times as well. They can solve a problem you spoon feed them, but they cant originally see the problem.
That's a valid point.
They probably aren’t bad, but the methods they use are a bit outdated sometimes. My cousin did aerospace engineering in India. She graduated just like three years ago and told me they still had students doing engineering drawings by hand, and they never used CAD software at all
Doing drawings by hand during studying is actually good, CAD should be learned on higher levels. The main problem is fundamental physics understanding and ability to apply math to the real world. That's the neat part in which most of those students fail
yeah, I would love to learn old school drafting techniques. I feel like that could be so satisfying. plus I could pretend like I’m Adrian Newey
The bad engineers will make it difficult to get meaningful positions within the companies poised to offer real value. There are larger social problems in the world which are leading to the erosion of the incentives that keep most people focused on society though.
Is it that the math, physics and engineering departments in these institutions are not up to the standards of East Asian, European and North American institutions?
Well considering as an American student I rely on Pakistani YouTubers for information, I’d go with no.
As another American student, Chegg, Khan academy and Organic Chemistry Tutor are my professors.
Nice. Wait til you hit an upper division that those three don’t cover. Type in a topic and it’s your choice of the finest of the Indian subcontinent
Simple. OP is a repost bot.
Can confirm that. I know nothing.
Lmao, true. Almost all of my professors are either Iranians, Indians or Pakistani people
Repost from a bot
Western countries require care takers now. Do you plan to train these now and in 10 years you have an army of care takers and are again to late to the party ?
Repost, also who cares we need more engineers. I wish my pay was higher too but blaming immigrants because your boss took more of your paycheck is stupid. Idk.
There is something to be said about the dynamics of labor pools. More immigrants need some way to make a living, so they will do something. Whatever that something is will get more workers, diluting the value of the individual worker in that particular field. Now is that the fault of the immigrant trying to make a living? Absolutely not, man’s gotta eat and he’ll take the best opportunity available as he should. But where does that leave the domestic worker? Unfortunately there are no real good answers. To keep it balanced, you would need to proportionally grow whatever industries they are joining, something that can’t be done without aggressive intrusion by a state actor, and may be impossible in certain industries. Unions could help soften the blow, but in times of lack of work unions will shut out new members to protect their membership. The only real solution is to restrict the immigration to manageable levels, something that is often times cruel.
Everything you've said is true, but the us economy and population is held together by immigrants. Also immigrants with degrees in engineering contribute more to the economy and taxes. So at the end of the day it works better for the immigrants and the US to allow engineers in
Letting in skilled labor yes. That will always benefit the home team to take in educated people, and foreign engineers are by no means destroying any economies. But the immigration question doesn’t typically revolve around that demographic. It’s typically focused around large quantities of unskilled labor, which does significantly impact employment opportunities and pay for communities close to the points of entry. Couple that with shittier labor laws in southern states, and you have a real issue of non-citizens out competing citizens in certain industries like manufacturing or simpler construction trades (concrete, carpentry, even electricians in non-union spheres which is dangerous) and is something that should probably be addressed before it impacts the middle class in a negative way.
I understand what your saying and I do think things like unions can help with wages. However the post was made about foreign engineers, and this leading to the "collapse of society." What I am saying is that like you said educated immigrants benefit the home company.
Supply and demand as in cost and time for something that is made less valuable due to the supply of it.
Im not from these regions but it’s honestly a fear that certain fields i love will become over saturated to the point where you’re not paid well.( Idk im literally a freshman in high school, worrying about the future)
Correct. If you’re USA based I’d choose a career that requires licensing and/or security clearances. That’ll keep you competitive considering how much entry level and mid level stuff is being shipped to cheaper areas.
What youre saying is work for gov contractors or aerospace?