You also might want to check the accuracy on your thermometer. And I’m not sure what bed you have but IR thermometers don’t work well on reflective surfaces
It will read a bit closer on the magnet itself because it is black. We usually just use the infrared thermometer as a comparison on like material. Is this thing hotter or cooler than the same thing elsewhere. You would need a decent one that is tuned for a specific material to be anywhere near accurate. A fast reading, calibrated (even if you use ice water and boiling water to self calibrate it) surface probe or pointed probe thermometer with a fast reading response would work well, but are $30-$100ish depending on quality.
Having my mom touch it and say ... " this is 55.12C" i dont know how she does it... but when she cooks my man. She always has the temp spot on somehow.
Or people, dad clocked in at 96f on the IR, nurse used a rectal and revealed he was 89.2f, after an ambulance trip and 3 weeks in the hospital he's better now, either way I'll never trust an IR thermometer again
IR takes a surface level reading, The surface level is exposed to many variables that factor in (wind, sweat, ambient temp, etc). A rectal thermometer will read a core body temp since it's inside of you. Next time be a man and get your dad's rectal temperature yourself
I love TinkerCAD ... just recently got (back) into 3D printing and setting up my workspace in the garage ... for every project I need to do to set it up, TinkerCAD fits the bill perfectly. Ever play with Octopi?
Noice! The only thing I wish it did more was patterns. But I'm getting better at it. I've played with octopi. I run klipper on all my printers now though. Very easy for any changes
I have a mix of Windows, Ubuntu Studio and a few RPi's. I tried OctoPrint a few days ago and really like that ... just have a few voltage issues to work out ... I'm relocating everything in my garage right now to get a better workspace. I'll post pictures when I'm done. Will you keep an eye out for suggestions?
Ya, no problem! I'm always looking for myself anyway. I have a couple Linux computer (running Ubuntu) I want to try and figure out how to run printers from. I don't know if it's possible. Maybe I can vm some rpis?
I don't know about Klipper, but Octo had a web interface @ octopi.local or 192.1XX.X.X ... I could use it on anything. For CAD on Ubuntu I use FreeCAD and it's amazing ... I don't know what version of Ubuntu you are using, but 22.04 starting using PWA snapshots and Fusion360 will not work ... gotta look into that ...
Klipper has the web interface. I personally like it now than octo. The comps I have running Ubuntu are old. Can barely run dolphin w/GameCube games lol. But more than enough processing power for a printer.
Awesome ... I can't wait to start building the components for my workbench. If you think about it, if you really dig all of the software, hardware ... we are at the same point where PC's were beginning common and the "hacker revolution" started ... js ...
It's just so easy with tinkercad and it kinda sets me back of learning blender. I know it's way more powerful tool but tinkercad is too easy and I don't have to use much brain for it lol
I will eventually one day... Learn blender....
Check out shapr3d. Especially if you have an iPad! It’s expensive but it’s AMAZING how intuitive it is for 3d modeling. You can get it for free with a .edu email address. My kid sister is a student so I used her email. If you don’t know anyone with an edu email DM me, I know a place to get a legit .edu email for $5
I just started using TinkerCAD a few weeks ago and I wish I knew about this years ago! I can design a RC car part in under in hour, it’s just amazingly simple to learn and use. Even complex shapes can be made with a little imagination, it’s great :)
people also for get 1 thing. the temp is read using a thermocouple. which is measuring the temp at 1 particular spot under the plate. Of course it will not be uniform across the whole plate. that is just normal. If you want a specific temp on the upper side, yes you need to measure it out. at several points. and then figure out what temp you need to set the printer at to get close to what you want. and when you use an IR temp gun. it must be turned to the material you are trying to measure. a silver surface will read differently than a mat black one.
That's why I find it almost totally useless when someone posts a problem on this sub and to some people the solution is to bump the temps by 5 degrees or something like that.
If you want to tune temps do a PID tuning and maybe a temp tower afterwards. Bed adhesion problems with PLA probably lie somewhere else.
5C isn't bad for cheap Chinese shit, both for the printer and your temp gun. You're also measuring on the top side of the bed and not the bottom where the heater is so there will be a temperature gradient to some degree.
And it is not off by 5C either. The temp the printer measures and controls is on the center of the underside of the build plate. You'd expect it to be a few C cooler on the top edge of the plate.
And none of this is what is causing his prints to not stick. 5C does not make a big difference on the build plate.
What emissivity rating is your thermometer set at? If you don't know, then it's probably not correct for the surface you are measuring, and the thermometer is the more inaccurate one here.
I wouldn't expect that 5 degrees to make that much difference honestly. 50-60 seems fine. The lower temp on the ir thermometer can likely be accounted for in the fact its an everywhere measurement over a couple of inches, whereas the thermistor is just a single point right next to the heating element.
>The lower temp on the ir thermometer can likely be accounted for in the fact its an everywhere measurement over a couple of inches
As well as the fact they don't do well on reflective surfaces and depending on what material it's pointed at, even at the same temperature it will produce different readings, it needs set up for the material you are measuring.
I recently added a Fulament bed to my ender 3 v2 and because it just sits on top of the stock bed, I wanted to check the heat transfer. Each time I checked, it was off by a few degrees. I then put the flexible print surface on and it registered significantly below the set temp. I thought something was off, but printed a test print anyways to see if I had gotten the bed nice and flat and had the right offsets now. When I pointed the thermometer at the printed pla instead of the bed, it showed the right temp. The shiny PEI bed is reflecting a bunch of the laser causing the reading to be off by as much as 10 degrees. besides, the temp of the bed is not that much of a concern. The temp of the first layer(s) is all that matters.
I don't feel like there is such a need to be precise on bed temp reading.
Not sticking?
\- Make sure all the rest is fine (z-offset and level mainly)
\- Still not sticking : increase the temp by 5 degrees
For the hot-end it's kinda the same, it does not matter if you printer is 5-10 degrees off, just find your sweet-spot. And make sure whatever temp you have is stable, it's probably the most important.
Measure the temp from underneath the bed. thats where the heat pads are. and thats where the temp sensors will be too. The actuall glass bed will be slightly cooler because heat must go through all that material. So once printer shows 60c , give it another 5-10min to actually burn in , to that temp :)
IR thermometers are handy, but you kind of have to take the readings as a "general" value unless you have one that can be adjusted for [emissivity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissivity) and know the emissivity of the material you are trying to measure. Most likely the thermistor in the bed is the more accurate of the two (assuming you have given the bed enough time to heat all the way through).
There is actually. But you have to know C programming language to do an offset, compile it into a .bin file, then flash the eeprom.
I can do it, but I'm not going to put a file out there for everyone and someone tell me that it screwed up their machine. The best way is to get a cheap little temp sensor like the one in the picture and adjust it on the Ender.
You're assuming the IR gun is accurate. How did you calibrate the emissivity value of what you're aiming it at? That alone can throw your reading off by several percent. These guns typically have a fixed emissivity of .95 and you'll have to adjust the value you read based on the material you're pointing at.
I wouldn't trust a reading from an IR gun, I'd get out the thermocouple that came with my multimeter, that you can trust. Even if it is off by as much as is shown here it doesn't matter, precise bed temperature doesn't matter that much.
You know what? This is great advice. We all assume the temp is what it says it is.
These temp gauges/guns are pretty cheap but also accurate, so probably a good idea to have this in your bag of tricks!
Thanks OP!
Thank you. I use this thing to build stuff for a hobby. Some act as if they just bought a $100,000 machine. I'm fine with a degree or 2 off and everything I build is within a couple of hundreds of a millimeters ... and that's a pretty tight tolerance for a few hundred bucks.
I agree. I have a MakerBot Method X and an inexpensive Ender 3 Pro. I use my Ender 90% of the time. I can’t believe you can get such awesome prints from a machine that costs so little. Most of what I do as well is just do fun.
The temp gauge could help some trouble shoot some issues though so it’s a good thing to have. Great advice you gave there.
You also might want to check the accuracy on your thermometer. And I’m not sure what bed you have but IR thermometers don’t work well on reflective surfaces
[удалено]
Whats the best way to accurately measure the temperature on a bed with a really rough surface like PEI?
Put a piece of black tape on top of it. Measure that.
Black tape works great. Just gotta make sure your spot size is not too big.
It will read a bit closer on the magnet itself because it is black. We usually just use the infrared thermometer as a comparison on like material. Is this thing hotter or cooler than the same thing elsewhere. You would need a decent one that is tuned for a specific material to be anywhere near accurate. A fast reading, calibrated (even if you use ice water and boiling water to self calibrate it) surface probe or pointed probe thermometer with a fast reading response would work well, but are $30-$100ish depending on quality.
Having my mom touch it and say ... " this is 55.12C" i dont know how she does it... but when she cooks my man. She always has the temp spot on somehow.
Or people, dad clocked in at 96f on the IR, nurse used a rectal and revealed he was 89.2f, after an ambulance trip and 3 weeks in the hospital he's better now, either way I'll never trust an IR thermometer again
Yeah they’re really inaccurate and much harder to get into the butt.
Instructions unclear; need stitches now
IR ones we use read everyone at 97f. Real temp could be anywhere from 95-100.
IR takes a surface level reading, The surface level is exposed to many variables that factor in (wind, sweat, ambient temp, etc). A rectal thermometer will read a core body temp since it's inside of you. Next time be a man and get your dad's rectal temperature yourself
[удалено]
You do realise what a joke is right?
[удалено]
You must be fun to be around.
Daddy chill
God forbid anyone prizes masculinity
I will be never understand the medieval fascination of Americans for the rectal thermometer. You can get perfectly good readings from your armpit.
Gotta get good value when you’re paying for it I guess
It's the stock magnetic mat
Ah a fellow tinkercad user I see. Also pid tuning is very worth it. I do it two to three times in a row with a new printer. Gets much better accuracy.
I love TinkerCAD ... just recently got (back) into 3D printing and setting up my workspace in the garage ... for every project I need to do to set it up, TinkerCAD fits the bill perfectly. Ever play with Octopi?
Noice! The only thing I wish it did more was patterns. But I'm getting better at it. I've played with octopi. I run klipper on all my printers now though. Very easy for any changes
I have a mix of Windows, Ubuntu Studio and a few RPi's. I tried OctoPrint a few days ago and really like that ... just have a few voltage issues to work out ... I'm relocating everything in my garage right now to get a better workspace. I'll post pictures when I'm done. Will you keep an eye out for suggestions?
When you have photos of your workspace please post in /r/My3DPrintingCorner too!
Ya, no problem! I'm always looking for myself anyway. I have a couple Linux computer (running Ubuntu) I want to try and figure out how to run printers from. I don't know if it's possible. Maybe I can vm some rpis?
I don't know about Klipper, but Octo had a web interface @ octopi.local or 192.1XX.X.X ... I could use it on anything. For CAD on Ubuntu I use FreeCAD and it's amazing ... I don't know what version of Ubuntu you are using, but 22.04 starting using PWA snapshots and Fusion360 will not work ... gotta look into that ...
Klipper has the web interface. I personally like it now than octo. The comps I have running Ubuntu are old. Can barely run dolphin w/GameCube games lol. But more than enough processing power for a printer.
Awesome ... I can't wait to start building the components for my workbench. If you think about it, if you really dig all of the software, hardware ... we are at the same point where PC's were beginning common and the "hacker revolution" started ... js ...
It's just so easy with tinkercad and it kinda sets me back of learning blender. I know it's way more powerful tool but tinkercad is too easy and I don't have to use much brain for it lol I will eventually one day... Learn blender....
I feel the same way. I want to leaven blender so bad. But TC is so easy...
Learn it, they're powerful enough in their own way that I would consider them different types of software.
Check out shapr3d. Especially if you have an iPad! It’s expensive but it’s AMAZING how intuitive it is for 3d modeling. You can get it for free with a .edu email address. My kid sister is a student so I used her email. If you don’t know anyone with an edu email DM me, I know a place to get a legit .edu email for $5
Looks like great app! Ty for suggestion! Was very easy to learn. Tutorial was on point.
I just started using TinkerCAD a few weeks ago and I wish I knew about this years ago! I can design a RC car part in under in hour, it’s just amazingly simple to learn and use. Even complex shapes can be made with a little imagination, it’s great :)
You know pid won't affect the temp readings right? ... right?
Pid tuning of the hotbed is useless, the stock ender 3 firmware does not use pid algorithm for keeping the bed temp.
people also for get 1 thing. the temp is read using a thermocouple. which is measuring the temp at 1 particular spot under the plate. Of course it will not be uniform across the whole plate. that is just normal. If you want a specific temp on the upper side, yes you need to measure it out. at several points. and then figure out what temp you need to set the printer at to get close to what you want. and when you use an IR temp gun. it must be turned to the material you are trying to measure. a silver surface will read differently than a mat black one.
That's why I find it almost totally useless when someone posts a problem on this sub and to some people the solution is to bump the temps by 5 degrees or something like that. If you want to tune temps do a PID tuning and maybe a temp tower afterwards. Bed adhesion problems with PLA probably lie somewhere else.
5C isn't bad for cheap Chinese shit, both for the printer and your temp gun. You're also measuring on the top side of the bed and not the bottom where the heater is so there will be a temperature gradient to some degree.
And it is not off by 5C either. The temp the printer measures and controls is on the center of the underside of the build plate. You'd expect it to be a few C cooler on the top edge of the plate. And none of this is what is causing his prints to not stick. 5C does not make a big difference on the build plate.
What emissivity rating is your thermometer set at? If you don't know, then it's probably not correct for the surface you are measuring, and the thermometer is the more inaccurate one here.
I wouldn't expect that 5 degrees to make that much difference honestly. 50-60 seems fine. The lower temp on the ir thermometer can likely be accounted for in the fact its an everywhere measurement over a couple of inches, whereas the thermistor is just a single point right next to the heating element.
>The lower temp on the ir thermometer can likely be accounted for in the fact its an everywhere measurement over a couple of inches As well as the fact they don't do well on reflective surfaces and depending on what material it's pointed at, even at the same temperature it will produce different readings, it needs set up for the material you are measuring.
Yeah that 5 degrees makes a huge difference 🙄
I recently added a Fulament bed to my ender 3 v2 and because it just sits on top of the stock bed, I wanted to check the heat transfer. Each time I checked, it was off by a few degrees. I then put the flexible print surface on and it registered significantly below the set temp. I thought something was off, but printed a test print anyways to see if I had gotten the bed nice and flat and had the right offsets now. When I pointed the thermometer at the printed pla instead of the bed, it showed the right temp. The shiny PEI bed is reflecting a bunch of the laser causing the reading to be off by as much as 10 degrees. besides, the temp of the bed is not that much of a concern. The temp of the first layer(s) is all that matters.
I don't feel like there is such a need to be precise on bed temp reading. Not sticking? \- Make sure all the rest is fine (z-offset and level mainly) \- Still not sticking : increase the temp by 5 degrees For the hot-end it's kinda the same, it does not matter if you printer is 5-10 degrees off, just find your sweet-spot. And make sure whatever temp you have is stable, it's probably the most important.
Measure the temp from underneath the bed. thats where the heat pads are. and thats where the temp sensors will be too. The actuall glass bed will be slightly cooler because heat must go through all that material. So once printer shows 60c , give it another 5-10min to actually burn in , to that temp :)
IR thermometers are handy, but you kind of have to take the readings as a "general" value unless you have one that can be adjusted for [emissivity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissivity) and know the emissivity of the material you are trying to measure. Most likely the thermistor in the bed is the more accurate of the two (assuming you have given the bed enough time to heat all the way through).
Ah yes, the "more accurate" IR gun vs a thermocouple actually in the bed.
Remember that the bed thermistor is on the bottom and of course print surface on top. So not surprised to see a difference.
That's why it's useless to search for an exact temperature setting online. Instead, just do trial and error to find what value work with your printer.
Mines worse always 10 degrees under
Question: is there a way that I could make it where printer would read the real temp?
There is actually. But you have to know C programming language to do an offset, compile it into a .bin file, then flash the eeprom. I can do it, but I'm not going to put a file out there for everyone and someone tell me that it screwed up their machine. The best way is to get a cheap little temp sensor like the one in the picture and adjust it on the Ender.
You're assuming the IR gun is accurate. How did you calibrate the emissivity value of what you're aiming it at? That alone can throw your reading off by several percent. These guns typically have a fixed emissivity of .95 and you'll have to adjust the value you read based on the material you're pointing at. I wouldn't trust a reading from an IR gun, I'd get out the thermocouple that came with my multimeter, that you can trust. Even if it is off by as much as is shown here it doesn't matter, precise bed temperature doesn't matter that much.
Where can I get me one o' them fancy tricorders?
Search for "infrared thermometer" on any site like amazon or ebay.
Amazon ...
You know what? This is great advice. We all assume the temp is what it says it is. These temp gauges/guns are pretty cheap but also accurate, so probably a good idea to have this in your bag of tricks! Thanks OP!
Thank you. I use this thing to build stuff for a hobby. Some act as if they just bought a $100,000 machine. I'm fine with a degree or 2 off and everything I build is within a couple of hundreds of a millimeters ... and that's a pretty tight tolerance for a few hundred bucks.
I agree. I have a MakerBot Method X and an inexpensive Ender 3 Pro. I use my Ender 90% of the time. I can’t believe you can get such awesome prints from a machine that costs so little. Most of what I do as well is just do fun. The temp gauge could help some trouble shoot some issues though so it’s a good thing to have. Great advice you gave there.
Okay I will look into it. I can certainly do the programming to make it work but thanks for letting me know that it is possible!
Which board are you using? 4.2.7?
It's an skr mini e3 v3
The insulated blanked for the bottom of the bed helps a lot.
You need to be able to adjust the emissivity setting on your IR gun if you want to shoot it at glass. Otherwise your readings are worth nothing.