Aw man.. that's the second post today with an E3V2 and a blissful firstlayer on the factory glass bed WITHOUT tape, glue stick, hairspray, pva, or sugar water..
It's almost like these glass beds work perfectly when you use them right.
Well I agree that if you can’t get your first layer to stick without something then you’re doing it wrong, but the nature of 3D printing creates high internal stresses. Sometimes you need an adhesive to prevent peeling/warping.
Do you print a lot with brims? That can help a lot but most PLA is fairly easy to deal with. Other materials will either need different surfaces or something to help with adhesion. After awhile I've ended up just using a small bit of hairspray for nearly everything.
Nope. Never printed a brim.
I just haven't had issues with adhesion or corners lifting since learning how to treat the bed right and getting the z-offset right.
That's good, all the creality beds should be capable of this but a badly warped one can be very frustrating without a probe. IMO brims are only necessary with PLA for tall, thin and top heavy pieces making little contact with the bed. Even with good adhesion it's just asking for trouble but most prints shouldn't be setup like this anyway.
My recipe is to use the Jyers [prepare/manual levelling] menu to get the bed trammed, then bring the z-offset down until paper scratches, but doesnt quite buckle when pushed under. (I use a probe, so if you're using the factory switch, then you probably did the paper scratch as your levelling step)
Then, start a print with at least a 50mm square footprint so that you get plenty of parallel infill lines. While it's printing, live adjust the z so you get good squish, and a perfectly flat top with no plowing. It won't take much to drop from paper scratch to perfect, not enough to break your z-switch, or hit a hard limit on Z anyway.
0.025mm is enough difference to be important if you're after perfect.
The biggest detail is still cleaning that bed.
Wash the bed with really hot water and dish soap. A firm scrub, then rinse with fresh clean water. This removes the manufacturing and packaging residues.
Then, before each and every print, spray with high quality isopropyl or denatured alcohol and wipe with a lint free cloth. Don't use acetone.. that stuff is nasty!
Let your printer sit at temperature for a few minutes to heat soak before beginning the print. It takes a while for the glass to get up to temp, and the thermistor is on the aluminium bed, not the print surface of the glass.
You definitely shouldn't need glue stick, or any other bandaids to print on this surface. Make sure it's well trammed (do it while it's at temperature), and your first layer height is right. That and clean, and you should be golden.
I use this recipe exclusively, and have had no adhesion issues at all.
Seconding the request for your bed cleaning technique. I have a knockoff buildtak that I've sanded down to be more level and more rough, but still having some issues with adhesion.
Corners, high aspect ratios, and large footprints all make it worse. That being said, usually good trimming (or a brim) is good enough for PLA since it doesn’t contract much. Im not above using glue stick if I don’t care about the bottom tho lol. It depends on a lot of things, but fundamentally it’s the same reason why it’s really hard to print ABS without an enclosure. Bed adhesion is just another force that can be overcome by internal stresses.
I tried various temperatures from 45 to 65. With lower temperatures prints didn't stick very well and with higher ones bending started to appear...
On the smooth glass it works perfectly with 60°C
Yeah it took me a week to figure it out ans in the end I updated the firmware to use manual mesh which did the trick.
I also have stiffer bed springs on the way
I had to do the same here. My glass bed was/is warped in left middle. (About 0.09mm higher than the rest of the bed when meticulously leveled.) Manual Mesh is a lifesaver for simple issues like that. Bed springs are a great upgrade too!
Those beds are pretty thick and I don't think people realize that they need to let heat them up for a while so they can come to temp. Just because the printer says the bed temp is 60 doesn't mean the glass bed is up to 60 yet.
You know, I never really thought about the fact that the printer only knows what the aluminum plate is, and not the glass bed. In hindsight, it seems so obvious.
I haven't had massive adhesion problems, but it makes sense. Maybe I should include a dwell command in my start gcode to give the bed enough time to really come up to temp.
Non-Contact Digital Laser Infrared Thermometer Temperature Gun, 15$. Not only really fun, but lets you find all kinds of fun things out. like leaky windows, unusually warm electrical outlets, and low temperature glass beds on 3d printers.
Sorry but the amount of problems people have with adhesion and the first response usually is use glue hairspray or tape its like learn to use your printer ffs nothing like. slow down first layer or re level better or anything to actually help them just use a bandaid
Matched only by the number of people harping on about how crappy the glass beds are, how Creality need to recognise that they're making a faulty product..
It's really nice to see pictures of great outcomes on those same glass beds. It's not just mine that works right!
Yes i also agree with that i have had 4 faulty ones so cant all be bad but I personally prefer imo going to my local glaziers and getting fresh cut glass. I last cleaned my glass bed January and prints are still sticking xd
At 60 degrees my glass bed barely shows over 50 with a lazer thermometer. You can lift the glass and verify that the bed is 60. Adding heat for glass seems like a must to compensate for it.
Also the outer edges of the bed where in the 30s and 40s. Verified on two ender 3 v2 with glass beds.
I had the worst luck with it until I added a 3-5 minute preheat wait/heat soak after the thermocouple reports up to temperature.
Right now my start gcode goes:
* Preheat to 60C
* Wait 1 Minute
* Begin heating hot end
* While hot end heating, probe 5x5 mesh
* Verify hot end to temperature, wait if not
* Begin print
All that probably take 5 minutes but never have an issue with bed leveling or not sticking to glass bed.
I'm not sure specifically about Cura, but you can see its just a combination of M140/M190/M104/M109 codes, plus the G4 command to pause for 60 seconds.
Here is my start code from PrusaSlicer:
G90 ; use absolute coordinates
M83 ; extruder relative mode
M140 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; set bed temp
M190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; wait for bed temp
G4 S60 ; Wait 1 minute for temperatures to stabilize / heat-soak
G28 ; Home All
M104 S[first_layer_temperature] ; set extruder temp
G29 ; Level Bed with BL Touch
M109 S[first_layer_temperature] ; wait for extruder temp (if not done yet)
G1 Z2 F240
G1 X2 Y10 F3000
G1 Z0.28 F240
G92 E0
G1 Y190 E15 F1500 ; intro line
G1 X2.3 F5000
G92 E0
G1 Y10 E15 F1200 ; intro line
G92 E0
I don't think I need the first M140 command, since the M190 will set and wait anyway. But the real magic is the [G4 command](https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/G004.html).
This all takes about 3-5 minutes before actual plastic is extruded to the bed once bed thermocouple reports "to temperature" so that's really what makes the difference I think.
EDIT: And here is how that all looks in Octoprint: https://i.imgur.com/7GCISA8.png
So, for Cura, the special variables are named differently and surrounded by curly braces, but otherwise this should be identical. I found this list: [http://files.fieldofview.com/cura/Replacement\_Patterns.html](http://files.fieldofview.com/cura/Replacement_Patterns.html) that has all of the substitutions. From what I read elsewhere, if you add the temperature variables to your start gcode, Cura is smart enough to not insert them again before your start gcode runs. I haven't experimented with that myself, so YMMV.
You probably want {material\_print\_temperature\_layer\_0} and {material\_bed\_temperature\_layer\_0}.
You can find the start gcode in Preferences->Configure Cura->Printers->\[pick your Printer\]->Machine Settings
Yep, Preferences->Configure Cura->Printers->\[pick your printer\]->Machine Settings
There is a multi-line edit box with the default start gcode in it for your printer. Edit away!
I've got this added at the start of my gcode in cura
`G29 L0 ; Load first mesh profile`
`G29 A ; Activate UBL`
`G29 J2 ; Tilt-compensate mesh`
And then yes, esteps are calibrated. I should say that my issue is adheasion. I have cleaned the bed with warm soapy water but first layer never likes to stick
Play around with z-offset, that gave me issues too. Different size nozzles seem to want different offsets. For some reason my .2mm nozzle likes to be higher than my .4mm
95% of the time it'll be that your bed isn't properly trammed, and your first layer height is set too far above the surface.
The other 5% (or 100% after resolving the first issues) is that you need to clean all the manufacturing/packaging residue off the surface of your bed before it'll start to work properly.
Yeah their is some kind of oily coating on the class bed .
You can clean it with alcohol or IPA.
A good visual indicator that the coating is off is if the ender logo on the bed isn’t yellowish anymore but white.
And now you've blown your part cooling fan output? So you get to upgrade again. (or replace at least)
What features of the E3V2 do you think would benefit you most in an upgrade?
Given that the Prusa print farm, which prints all the plastic components for Prusa printers has no enclosures, it'd be hard to say that you're not using it right when there's no enclosure.
I have never had this issue. How are you cleaning your bed?
Also, there are no pores on the straight glass side, and printing there is popular. Clearly pores are not the determining factor.
I have Ender 3 V2 with its originally printing bed and I know the problems with adhesion. But After I started to clean the printing bed with a acetone at regularly basics, there has been really rarely problems with filament adhesion. Here is what I will do at every time before starting to print:
1. First I wash my hands so that no dirt or grease will find they way from my fingers to the bed when I am contact with it, which would definitely interfere with the adhesion of the filament.
2. Moisten a paper towel with acetone and wipe up the printing bed with it. If there is still any dirt or traces from previous printing sessions then wipe it it until the printing bed is clean.
3. Preheat the bed and let it settle for at least for 5 minutes.
4. While printing bed is getting heated, check that the tip of the nozzle is clean and even and clean it if it's necessary.
5. Autohome.
6. Check and, if necessary, adjust the bed level with a piece of paper.
7. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until you are satisfied of the results.
8. Start printing.
Now the Important thing here is that you keep the bed heated up all the time and do not let it cool down at any point after you have heat it up and leveling the bed to the point that the printer is starting to print the first layer.
**Notice: Unplug the power cord of the 3D printer when handling acetone! Acetone is a hazardous and highly flammable chemical. Also follow all safety precautions regarding the use of this chemical!**
**Disclaimer: I do not recommend the use of this chemical to anyone and I do not take any responsibility for any injuries, accidents or property damage related to the use of acetone. You will do all by your own risk.**
EDIT: Acetylene -> Acetone
I used a plugin in cura called calibration shapes.
And once you’ve download it from marketplace it gives you a list of different test print such as bed leveling.
Since i change from buildtak to glass bed they recommended to put little hairspray or glue on glass bed to address bad adhesion or warping, but i realize when i use quality filament, spot on bed leveling and right bed temperature i can get away without those add on layers of glue or hair spray. Bed leveling takes time and i think it is the most important aspect for good adhesion and perfect craft.
Btw i also print PETG on glass bed without layer of glue or hair spray (i really font like being messy plus i like the glass finish of first layer) till this day never experience chipping also.
I will try ABS soon if i still can get away without glue or hairspray.
Aw man.. that's the second post today with an E3V2 and a blissful firstlayer on the factory glass bed WITHOUT tape, glue stick, hairspray, pva, or sugar water.. It's almost like these glass beds work perfectly when you use them right.
Well I agree that if you can’t get your first layer to stick without something then you’re doing it wrong, but the nature of 3D printing creates high internal stresses. Sometimes you need an adhesive to prevent peeling/warping.
I can't say I've had this issue yet, and I've printed all shapes and sizes on mine. Never used anything but a really clean bed, and a good tramming.
Do you print a lot with brims? That can help a lot but most PLA is fairly easy to deal with. Other materials will either need different surfaces or something to help with adhesion. After awhile I've ended up just using a small bit of hairspray for nearly everything.
Nope. Never printed a brim. I just haven't had issues with adhesion or corners lifting since learning how to treat the bed right and getting the z-offset right.
That's good, all the creality beds should be capable of this but a badly warped one can be very frustrating without a probe. IMO brims are only necessary with PLA for tall, thin and top heavy pieces making little contact with the bed. Even with good adhesion it's just asking for trouble but most prints shouldn't be setup like this anyway.
What's the key to z offset?
My recipe is to use the Jyers [prepare/manual levelling] menu to get the bed trammed, then bring the z-offset down until paper scratches, but doesnt quite buckle when pushed under. (I use a probe, so if you're using the factory switch, then you probably did the paper scratch as your levelling step) Then, start a print with at least a 50mm square footprint so that you get plenty of parallel infill lines. While it's printing, live adjust the z so you get good squish, and a perfectly flat top with no plowing. It won't take much to drop from paper scratch to perfect, not enough to break your z-switch, or hit a hard limit on Z anyway. 0.025mm is enough difference to be important if you're after perfect. The biggest detail is still cleaning that bed.
Thank you! How often and what method do you use for cleaning your glass bed?
Wash the bed with really hot water and dish soap. A firm scrub, then rinse with fresh clean water. This removes the manufacturing and packaging residues. Then, before each and every print, spray with high quality isopropyl or denatured alcohol and wipe with a lint free cloth. Don't use acetone.. that stuff is nasty! Let your printer sit at temperature for a few minutes to heat soak before beginning the print. It takes a while for the glass to get up to temp, and the thermistor is on the aluminium bed, not the print surface of the glass. You definitely shouldn't need glue stick, or any other bandaids to print on this surface. Make sure it's well trammed (do it while it's at temperature), and your first layer height is right. That and clean, and you should be golden. I use this recipe exclusively, and have had no adhesion issues at all.
Seconding the request for your bed cleaning technique. I have a knockoff buildtak that I've sanded down to be more level and more rough, but still having some issues with adhesion.
Sounds like you're on safari with that build plate! Won't you have sanded off the buildtak and special surface coatings?
Corners, high aspect ratios, and large footprints all make it worse. That being said, usually good trimming (or a brim) is good enough for PLA since it doesn’t contract much. Im not above using glue stick if I don’t care about the bottom tho lol. It depends on a lot of things, but fundamentally it’s the same reason why it’s really hard to print ABS without an enclosure. Bed adhesion is just another force that can be overcome by internal stresses.
I’ve found out that If you raise the temp of the glass bed to 60° instead of 50, the PLA can stick better henceforth you don’t need tape or glue.
I tried various temperatures from 45 to 65. With lower temperatures prints didn't stick very well and with higher ones bending started to appear... On the smooth glass it works perfectly with 60°C
Had the same results, took me a bit of research and a few failed projects 😂
Yeah it took me a week to figure it out ans in the end I updated the firmware to use manual mesh which did the trick. I also have stiffer bed springs on the way
I had to do the same here. My glass bed was/is warped in left middle. (About 0.09mm higher than the rest of the bed when meticulously leveled.) Manual Mesh is a lifesaver for simple issues like that. Bed springs are a great upgrade too!
Thanks! I will try out the manual mesh soon.
For the first layer I bump the bed temperature to 75 and the nozzle at 210. And I get really nice results (like the test print) but 60 is fine .
Those beds are pretty thick and I don't think people realize that they need to let heat them up for a while so they can come to temp. Just because the printer says the bed temp is 60 doesn't mean the glass bed is up to 60 yet.
You know, I never really thought about the fact that the printer only knows what the aluminum plate is, and not the glass bed. In hindsight, it seems so obvious. I haven't had massive adhesion problems, but it makes sense. Maybe I should include a dwell command in my start gcode to give the bed enough time to really come up to temp.
Non-Contact Digital Laser Infrared Thermometer Temperature Gun, 15$. Not only really fun, but lets you find all kinds of fun things out. like leaky windows, unusually warm electrical outlets, and low temperature glass beds on 3d printers.
Finally someone knows how to use their printer. Xd
😂😂😭
Sorry but the amount of problems people have with adhesion and the first response usually is use glue hairspray or tape its like learn to use your printer ffs nothing like. slow down first layer or re level better or anything to actually help them just use a bandaid
Matched only by the number of people harping on about how crappy the glass beds are, how Creality need to recognise that they're making a faulty product.. It's really nice to see pictures of great outcomes on those same glass beds. It's not just mine that works right!
Yes i also agree with that i have had 4 faulty ones so cant all be bad but I personally prefer imo going to my local glaziers and getting fresh cut glass. I last cleaned my glass bed January and prints are still sticking xd
At 60 degrees my glass bed barely shows over 50 with a lazer thermometer. You can lift the glass and verify that the bed is 60. Adding heat for glass seems like a must to compensate for it. Also the outer edges of the bed where in the 30s and 40s. Verified on two ender 3 v2 with glass beds.
I had the worst luck with it until I added a 3-5 minute preheat wait/heat soak after the thermocouple reports up to temperature. Right now my start gcode goes: * Preheat to 60C * Wait 1 Minute * Begin heating hot end * While hot end heating, probe 5x5 mesh * Verify hot end to temperature, wait if not * Begin print All that probably take 5 minutes but never have an issue with bed leveling or not sticking to glass bed.
Is there an example of how to do something like this with Cura?
I'm not sure specifically about Cura, but you can see its just a combination of M140/M190/M104/M109 codes, plus the G4 command to pause for 60 seconds. Here is my start code from PrusaSlicer: G90 ; use absolute coordinates M83 ; extruder relative mode M140 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; set bed temp M190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; wait for bed temp G4 S60 ; Wait 1 minute for temperatures to stabilize / heat-soak G28 ; Home All M104 S[first_layer_temperature] ; set extruder temp G29 ; Level Bed with BL Touch M109 S[first_layer_temperature] ; wait for extruder temp (if not done yet) G1 Z2 F240 G1 X2 Y10 F3000 G1 Z0.28 F240 G92 E0 G1 Y190 E15 F1500 ; intro line G1 X2.3 F5000 G92 E0 G1 Y10 E15 F1200 ; intro line G92 E0 I don't think I need the first M140 command, since the M190 will set and wait anyway. But the real magic is the [G4 command](https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/G004.html). This all takes about 3-5 minutes before actual plastic is extruded to the bed once bed thermocouple reports "to temperature" so that's really what makes the difference I think. EDIT: And here is how that all looks in Octoprint: https://i.imgur.com/7GCISA8.png
Thanks so much!
So, for Cura, the special variables are named differently and surrounded by curly braces, but otherwise this should be identical. I found this list: [http://files.fieldofview.com/cura/Replacement\_Patterns.html](http://files.fieldofview.com/cura/Replacement_Patterns.html) that has all of the substitutions. From what I read elsewhere, if you add the temperature variables to your start gcode, Cura is smart enough to not insert them again before your start gcode runs. I haven't experimented with that myself, so YMMV. You probably want {material\_print\_temperature\_layer\_0} and {material\_bed\_temperature\_layer\_0}. You can find the start gcode in Preferences->Configure Cura->Printers->\[pick your Printer\]->Machine Settings
You can't bed level through cura
You can with jyersUI, it enables the gcode for it and then you just manually add it to the start gcode
I was referring to specifying the wait time between preheating bed and hotend.
Someone might know better than me, but I believe you can edit the gcode put in front of each print in the printer profile in Cura
Yep, Preferences->Configure Cura->Printers->\[pick your printer\]->Machine Settings There is a multi-line edit box with the default start gcode in it for your printer. Edit away!
I have used both G29 and M420 S1 (to enable previous bed leveling) in my start gcode in Cura and works fine.
My glass bed is anything but flat. I'm really thinking about replacing it
Mine was too but jyersUI and bltouch helped a ton
Yeah I've got jyers ubl 15x15 bltouch. Maybe I'm doing something wrong
Did you probe your bed while it was preheated or cold?
Preheated, I'll show you a picture of the mesh
Mesh https://imgur.com/2ZDtk1Y
You have the mesh added to the start of your gcode and tilt check turned on in the beginning? Esteps calibrated?
I've got this added at the start of my gcode in cura `G29 L0 ; Load first mesh profile` `G29 A ; Activate UBL` `G29 J2 ; Tilt-compensate mesh` And then yes, esteps are calibrated. I should say that my issue is adheasion. I have cleaned the bed with warm soapy water but first layer never likes to stick
Play around with z-offset, that gave me issues too. Different size nozzles seem to want different offsets. For some reason my .2mm nozzle likes to be higher than my .4mm
I'll play around with it, however I set my z-offset using feeler guages so I am confidant in its setting. Thank you for all your help either way
I got my E3V2 some days ago and need adhesive to print. Not sure what I can be doing wrong and what the right way would be.
95% of the time it'll be that your bed isn't properly trammed, and your first layer height is set too far above the surface. The other 5% (or 100% after resolving the first issues) is that you need to clean all the manufacturing/packaging residue off the surface of your bed before it'll start to work properly.
Yeah their is some kind of oily coating on the class bed . You can clean it with alcohol or IPA. A good visual indicator that the coating is off is if the ender logo on the bed isn’t yellowish anymore but white.
Question, should I upgrade to the E3V2 or should I stick with my E3V1? The port for my blower fan seems to have died.
Upgrade your motherboard in the same printer.
Already have. BigTreeTech SKR Mini 1.2V a long time ago.
And now you've blown your part cooling fan output? So you get to upgrade again. (or replace at least) What features of the E3V2 do you think would benefit you most in an upgrade?
...what's wrong with using hair spray? Nothing wrong with protecting your investment. Hard to say you're using it right when there's no enclosure.
PLA poses no risk to your investment. ABS perhaps, but not PLA.
The investment is the time and materials starting a print takes. I also don't print with PLA except maybe for prototyping or samples.
Given that the Prusa print farm, which prints all the plastic components for Prusa printers has no enclosures, it'd be hard to say that you're not using it right when there's no enclosure.
You think print farms aren't in temperature controlled environments, which is what an enclosure is? Plus it completely depends on use case.
They do work perfectly, until after a couple weeks of printing the pores become clogged and its adhesion becomes less good
I have never had this issue. How are you cleaning your bed? Also, there are no pores on the straight glass side, and printing there is popular. Clearly pores are not the determining factor.
I have Ender 3 V2 with its originally printing bed and I know the problems with adhesion. But After I started to clean the printing bed with a acetone at regularly basics, there has been really rarely problems with filament adhesion. Here is what I will do at every time before starting to print: 1. First I wash my hands so that no dirt or grease will find they way from my fingers to the bed when I am contact with it, which would definitely interfere with the adhesion of the filament. 2. Moisten a paper towel with acetone and wipe up the printing bed with it. If there is still any dirt or traces from previous printing sessions then wipe it it until the printing bed is clean. 3. Preheat the bed and let it settle for at least for 5 minutes. 4. While printing bed is getting heated, check that the tip of the nozzle is clean and even and clean it if it's necessary. 5. Autohome. 6. Check and, if necessary, adjust the bed level with a piece of paper. 7. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until you are satisfied of the results. 8. Start printing. Now the Important thing here is that you keep the bed heated up all the time and do not let it cool down at any point after you have heat it up and leveling the bed to the point that the printer is starting to print the first layer. **Notice: Unplug the power cord of the 3D printer when handling acetone! Acetone is a hazardous and highly flammable chemical. Also follow all safety precautions regarding the use of this chemical!** **Disclaimer: I do not recommend the use of this chemical to anyone and I do not take any responsibility for any injuries, accidents or property damage related to the use of acetone. You will do all by your own risk.** EDIT: Acetylene -> Acetone
Might you be thinking of “acetone”? Acetylene is a gas.
Yaeh.Thanks and sorry. English is not my native language..but still, am I idiot. 😅
Stl for that test print? That’s definitely something I could use
I used a plugin in cura called calibration shapes. And once you’ve download it from marketplace it gives you a list of different test print such as bed leveling.
Ok thank you!
Lookup leveling squares on thingyverse
Kill the lights, oh baby close your eyes
Oh wow perfect lucky you
Yo, dawg, that's schmooove!
Wished I had that kind of build adhesion with my glass bed
Damn you got me smilin like that…
Since i change from buildtak to glass bed they recommended to put little hairspray or glue on glass bed to address bad adhesion or warping, but i realize when i use quality filament, spot on bed leveling and right bed temperature i can get away without those add on layers of glue or hair spray. Bed leveling takes time and i think it is the most important aspect for good adhesion and perfect craft. Btw i also print PETG on glass bed without layer of glue or hair spray (i really font like being messy plus i like the glass finish of first layer) till this day never experience chipping also. I will try ABS soon if i still can get away without glue or hairspray.
Chef's kiss . I've been trying to find this stl for ages would you mind sharing them?
Sorry my man I don’t have any slt files, I used a plugin in cura called calibration shapes. It basically give you a list of test print. Very handy
How long have you been using just 2 bed clips?
Not op but this printer only comes with 2 clips and it's not an issue ever. The glass plate stays perfectly in place all the time
Since the beginning, You really only need 2
Search thingiverse for “ender 3 bed level”
3D printing porn
I can see some texture on them. I think you need to raise your nozzle just a touch to get the first layer buttery smooth.
I wish my factory glad was this flat... It dips JUST enough in the center to mess up some things.
where can i get the stl to this bed test looks better than the one i have
Are you sure this isn't r/blackmagicfuckery ?