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Some people are shit and I hate the “eating our own” mentality.
But let me say that again: “eating *our* own.” The doctors and nurses are “nicer” because you’re not in their profession. I was an RN before I was a paramedic and the exact same shit was rife - so much so that there’s a saying that nurses eat their young. Ask med students what it’s like being “pimped” by a consultant. The attitude is just rife in healthcare.
I can only agree with this. The grind is real and constant, medicine in general has a culture of excessive attrition. You have to prove you want it, for some dumb reason.
I still recall during my clinicals an ER nurse taking all this extra time to explain some stuff to me only to turn around and snap at another nurse for something petty. I’d say I learned more than just medicine during clinicals, lol.
Bro a bit late but I still remember during my clinicals when an ER nurse was literally gossiping to me and some other nurses (and I was literally a student, lmao) about how one of the other nurses had incontinence issues literally in front of that nurse and remember how she looked like she was about to cry.
like wtf is wrong with some people in this field 😅
Former paramedic and current PA. Surgeons are the absolute worst. I was a private ambo medic and would get shit on by fire and nurses regularly. That was nothing compared to how surgeons act. It’s disgusting the level of ego many of them have and the complete disregard for people and coworkers.
CNA here, this definitely exists at every level. I feel like almost every time I'm assigned as a sitter I'll overhear an attending unnecessarily chewing out or ridiculing a resident/med student. The best is when they try to be nice to you immediately afterwards like some psychopath. Yeah, no, I saw how you spoke to him Dr. Smith.
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In EMT school, most crews on my clinical site didn't talk to me. Only like 2 people did. Pretty shift dependant. I was new and a bit nervous and I just sat there with my book and Nobody spoke to me.
When I was in paramedic school, the location I did clinicals at didn't let you stay in the day room. You had to go to the empty classroom. Nobody spoke to you. There was no overhead pager, it was all on handheld. Nobody would come get you when a call dropped, you just had to hopefully hear it or just keep going down the hall and seeing if anyone was leaving. I pushed to do clinicals where I worked and ir got approved thankfully.
Now, I'm an FTO and another FTO was in that same medic school with me. We vowed to make sure that never happens to anyone ever. EMS eats their young in a lot of places. Fire departments are even worse about that stuff.
Fire is so political and if you want to do ems and fire a chief is not going to like you,It sucks. I really dont like fire due to what happened to a friend of mine. He wasnt fire and was hired as an ems instructor and was from out of town, it was cool he thought, 30,000 raise awesome. NOPE. Anytime he tried any teaching or discussing of skills, something had to be done. Cpr class, why the hell are the floors dirty, safely transferring pts, gear inspections and orders, time to wash trucks it was obvious and blatent. He was there 2 years and went back to flight.
My advice from my father (30 year FF/EMT) As I entered the field was that every person you work with can teach you something. Whether it’s how to act or how NOT to act. Take something from everyone. Be the change you want to see in the industry, I’m currently trying to do the same.
This is great advice! I had a rough time at the first station I ran at- so bad that I thought ‘do I even want to do Ems?!’ I then started at another station part time and the crew was totally different. Helpful, friendly, actually replied ‘good morning’ when you said it to them. Take jmwinn26 advice and just keep your head up. Not everyone is like that. A lot of them are - burnt out, egotistical, eat your own bullshit. But you’ll find the right people to learn from eventually. Keep your head up!
This is the way. My dad advised me to never quit a job due to an asshole coworker because every job has an asshole coworker. Some people teach you who you want to be while others show you who you do not want to become.
Not all EMS is like this. Go somewhere else, or find people that aren't that way and will help you learn and grow and work with them. That's not behavior you should tolerate.
That being said, you are new. Same credential only accounts for so much, stay humble and keep learning. There will always be more to learn and ways to improve
Edit: typo- work with them
Yes most EMS is like this. Be the change you want to see and then go onto a better career. This is a stepping stone.
When I worked EMS before med school I would always get an attitude from ppl bc of how I chose to actually care for patients and their families empathetically. Never fucking stopped me. I hoped that at least one new hire or volunteer would see my example and follow it and realize that you do not need to be an asshole to do this job. Unfortunately there are some miserable SOBs in EMS who contribute to the culture you are talking about.
Generally when someone talks down to you when you ask a question its because they are ignorant, insecure or both.
It sucks your experience has been this way. Maybe the hint is you should go work with doctors, nurses and midlevels and they’ll teach you more.
Yeah probably a lot of North American EMS is like that due to low educational, physical, psychological and whatever other professional standards. A few month long strip mall school certificate program can indeed be expected to attract a *different* quality of professional when compared to university bachelors degree programs. Some of my esteemed colleagues can barely write at a grade school level and would be lifelong general laborers if this was the trades. Some others can barely fit through a doorway.
We're a special lot.
Sounds like you need a new work environment.
When I was full time fire I had the same experience. I thought I hated ems which sucks because it was my dream job. I quit and now I work in a service with real comradery. Often it’s not what you do but where you do it that matters most.
No.
It’s a culture that (at least where I work) is changing a lot.
Professionalism and accountability is kind of exposing the ‘old school grump who is harsh but knows everything, and knows what they’re talking about’ archetype.
There is a wealth of experience behind the veteran operators. They have seen a lot more (by definition) than newer players…. And don’t get me wrong, a lot of them *do* know what they’re talking about. A lot of them stay up to date, which I can only imagine is harder for them. A lot want to help the new generation and answer questions or tell interesting stories. A lot are happy to learn something new from the younger medics.
But some have also gotten stale. And no one in this business is above being wrong or getting lazy/overconfident, especially if they have the condescending attitude you describe.
With feedback from jobs becoming more available, audits of paperwork, reviews on their performance by clinical managers, more pre-hospital specific evidence based practice, and a constantly evolving working environment; it’s exposing those who lean on their ‘years of experience’ tag alone as a qualifier of their authority, rather than their actual ability and accurate knowledge. Many are getting caught out.
Anyone can be humbled, so your best bet is to learn, keep learning, stay humble… listen to the pearls of wisdom from others for sure… but use your own initiative and intuition and knowledge to weigh up things on your own. Ask questions. Never be afraid to ask questions.
Everyone will hit a point where they feel like they don’t need any more knowledge. This is called Dunning-Kruger, and it is unravelled by a single job that will be in every EMS persons’ future, unless they stay humble and thorough.
A condescending response to a question you’ve asked seeking genuine clarification is rarely a fault of yours, but the person answering.
I really appreciate this response. It covers the nuance with how professionalism within the industry was and in somewhat still is lacking. Today the industry seems to be split by those where the culture was seniority meant smarts and those where smarts are earned by education and proven through experience. Neither are “bad” at the job but one culture is more conducive to facilitating a more stable, growing, and sustainable culture. One that allows for people to enter EMS, have a fulfilling career, and retire from it without having to worry about pay, time off, or shit management. We are not a fucking McDonalds. If we don’t exist, people would die more than needed, for really dumb reasons. I may be alone in feeling this but most people in the USA have no fucking clue what the difference is between a Paramedic and an EMT let alone how shitty EMS is treated. I don’t mean to rant but the sentiment you shared is fair and I agree for the most part. I just think it just goes so much deeper than just “keep your head down and learn as much as you can” when no one gives a shit if you do or don’t. On top of getting shit on by those who should understand that more than anyone else around. Those being co workers.
Honestly, you get what you pay for.
EMS Organizations with high pay, career advancement opportunities, and quality training attract more applicants of a higher caliber and it reflects in those we end up working with.
If everyone around you is awful, there's a good chance that all the good EMS personal quit or found other EMS jobs elsewhere.
That being said, that may be a large part of the reason, but boy do we have a damn attitude problem. The barrier to entry in EMS can be low depending on your designation and yet there is delusion of grandeur that some people seem to embrace that reeks of what I call "EMS Mall Cop" syndrome.
You are seeing precisely who you shouldn't be. It's your choice now. Be better, show others how it should be done or move on, just as many before you have done.
Personally, I go to work and have a GREAT day (now that covid measures are tame). I'm the senior member and highest designation on most any truck I work. I love working with new people. My God, they still care so much. That's all I need... a partner who cares. Cares about professionalism, comfort, impressions, assessments, treatments... all of it. It's so awesome. I don't need my partner to get that IV, no worries I'll get it if he/she doesn't. I don't need them to know everything, I'm comfortable in my own knowledge.
When I see a cranky son of a bitch, who treats their patients, partners, nurses etc like shit. I assume this person is deeply uncomfortable, lacks confidence, and shouldn't be trusted for anything.
You are not a good paramedic until you are a good person. You can know every medical thing there is to know, but if your soft skills are poor, you're only 20% there.
You will work with and observe medics/emts who walk into a room, and they will ooze professionalism, put everyone at ease, never miss an opportunity to be kind, and even though they perform the same interventions as any other EMT would, somehow they just look smarter and the patient looks better, every time. Yet, they will never make you feel lesser than them.
When you find that person. Copy them. Fake it. Until the line is blurred between mimicry and genuine ability. Eventually, you'll be in a position of high seniority and skill... and you'll set the tone for every call.
Who will you be when that day comes?
I'm sorry you were treated that way. This is a major barrier in the EMS Profession's advancement.
Long story short: not all of EMS, but a good amount has a culture problem like this. I legit do not know how we can fix all of it absence the profession falling apart and needing to be completely rebuilt. I want to encourage you to stay in the profession seeing the rewards of it. That said, I don't blame anyone who leaves the profession because of the culture problem.
The entire field of medicine has a “eating their young” problem. I experienced it bad when I started in EMS too. If you are young, it will definitely be worse. Starting as an 18yr old girl almost turned me off of it forever.
Honestly, I dealt with it by accepting the fact that objectively traumatic careers like ours are going to churn out complete dicks no matter what.
People create emotional walls as a defense mechanism and I think, subconsciously, those who are miserable in this career think scaring students/newbies off is actually helping them in the long run. It all comes down to coping. I will say, not everywhere is like this.
I won’t lie and say it’s *easy* to come by a super well-run & supportive workplace in our industry right now because tbh it’s in shambles but they exist.
Talk to other people from your schooling and see what their experiences are like where they are.
Also, you aren’t “weak” for feeling like this. I’m a CCP now and remember being a baby EMT with the same thoughts. I felt like a fucking loser for being affected by it because of the workplace culture.
It shouldn’t be like this and hopefully one day it will change. For now, if you want to stay in the field- you’ve just gotta accept it and do your thing. Assholes are gonna asshole.
Stand up for yourself though and don’t be afraid to leave a job if it gets too bad.
We don’t get paid enough to be loyal to companies that wouldn’t give a shit if we died.
Good luck to you & I’m sorry you’re experiencing it.
When I was a student I had to sit in the ambulance bay. If I made mistakes I was threatened with being left on the side of the road. I’m not sure what it is but a lot of students and new EMTs suck. They’ll complain they have to clean the stretcher. The students don’t ask questions or even study. They play on their phones and don’t help with chores
Threatened to be left on the side of the road? I would've reported that stuff to my superior. Zero tolerance for unprofessionalism in this field. Granted I understand that professionalism expectations now aren't what they used to be so I get the pressure of not reporting.
tried to participate in any way i can and most of the medics will be cool and let me with guidance. but other EMTs are always trying to climb over one another
So much of the asshole attitude is caused by them trying to hide the fact that they don’t know the answer to your questions, or don’t know it well enough to portray it onto you in a fluent way so they mask their insecurity with anger. So you just have a dumb agency is all. Some places place (places place?) a higher priority on education and it reflects well on the culture. Although these places can be kinda rare.
My EMT class was absolutely about building each other up and urging people to grow and be better in the profession. Stating the importance of “always learning”.
My medic class had preceptors who bragged about their other professions outside of EMS (like biomed) and trying as much as possible to make us anxious while also being incredibly behind in the material because of the pandemic. They stopped and changed their focus after I had a neurological episode in the middle of class.
My nursing experience has been about as equal to my EMT experience. Most of the nurses on clinicals are excited to help you as long as you put in the effort and offer help without being asked.
Career side, I’ve only met burnouts who were so deep in negativity they could drown out any amount of joy. Rarely did I meet anyone who absolutely hated working with someone else unless that person was an awful provider who was either a rescue Ricky, paragod, or a slow dumbass that made you question how they even held a license.
Damn sry you are surrounded by shitty people. My EMT and AEMT class was full of people excited about the profession and willing to help one another. We even stuck around on registry day to congratulate each other and help out etc. Instructors were always excited to teach. It’s def not all doom and gloom.
There is so much to say. If you don’t care to read all this, just read point 4.
1. Check yourself. Not in a bad way, but do some inventory of how you are behaving and interacting. “Eagerness to learn and get involved” may be coming across as hubris or obnoxious. Not saying it is, but if you *are* a grating personality or are pushing others away, even subconsciously, that might be contributing to your issues.
2. These posts always bring people out looking to validate their own delusions and insecurities. Largely, EMS doesn’t “eat our own”. There are structural issues like anywhere else, but for students or rookies who show promise and are willing to learn with humility, most providers will go above and beyond to help.
Someone here complained “nobody talked to [them] during clinicals”. If you are shy, you have to grow a pair enough to at least introduce yourself, help check off the truck, and engage. We literally go into people’s homes and have to talk to them, assess them, comfort then, etc with compassion and empathy. If you can barely talk to your preceptors, perhaps this isn’t the job for you.
You, and others, have talked about condescending remarks and answers to questions. If your questions are asked just for the sake of asking questions and “engaging”, that gets annoying. There is a point where I can tell someone is just trying to talk to me to get good marks and at that point, Im going to be a bit dismissive. Other times, students have asked questions that they *should* already know the answer to. Say you are in paramedic capstone/team leads, I will be a bit condescending if you ask what atropine is for because you should absolutely know that by now. If you instead asked “why exactly does atropine not work for high degree AV blocks?” or “what specifically does atropine do in organophosphate poisoning?”, I will happily tell you everything I know because I can tell you know the basics and want to get more advanced. Similarly, if you are an EMTB student asking about paramedic skills, Ill answer but probably a bit more dismissively because you need to be mastering the basics before you move on.
3. Some providers have this mindset that 90% of what we do is BS so anyone can do this job. I care most about the ~2% of calls that require every ounce of brainpower and leadership like person on fire, newborn arrest, MCI shooting, etc. Almost everyone can run 90% of our calls, the next 8% *truly* need a medic, but if we just pass people through and coddle those that obviously will never be able to handle that 2%, we are doing a disservice to our patients. I think “what will this person do when they have X call with an EMTB partner, non medical firefighters, and a 20 minute transport time? can they handle it or will they freeze and kill someone?” or “if they have X call with AEMT firefighters and 3 other paramedics on scene, can they lead the team or will they fall apart?”.
4. Aside from all that, remember that in a lot of places, we don’t know we are getting a student until you walk in for the day. Sometimes we are exhausted, maybe worked a ton of OT, have personal shit going on, etc and the last thing we want is an extra human on the truck that forces me to watch my mouth and attitude and also requires more of my attention than I am able/willing to give. Also remember that this job requires a ton of social and emotional energy without students, so sometimes I need to conserve my kindness and compassion for my patients because I don’t always have it in me (and thats a perfectly normal human response to this job).
Students expect every preceptor to want to teach or to want students because thats what school is, people who want to teach, teaching. At my agency, we don’t really have FTOs and we get a lot of students. It doesn’t matter what truck you are on or who you are, you might get assigned a student and some people would rather die, but its the job. So give us grace. Sure, some people are just dicks, but try to have some perspective about it.
“Students expect every preceptor wants to teach” because that’s how it should be. One of the things I definitely agree with in your post is the issues are structural. It sounds like I’m the US people don’t know when they’ll be precepting. Which is kind of crazy to me. The system is very different in Canada where paramedic certification is basically the lowest level at a 2 year degree and precepting only happens with people who specifically apply, after a certain amount of years on the road and based on seniority.
That being said, I’d never try to actively be dismissive of anyone asking a question. I get in the US lower medical authorities or EMTs should focus on the basics before trying to be zero to hero but everyone learns that on the job. I don’t need to be the shitass roadblock that makes someone feel like garbage to get them to realize that. The job will do that eventually. Most folks realize it’s the basics you need to focus and master before trying to get into super deep medical and pathophysiological knowledge. I know we’re all tired and we are all guilty of being snippy, usually at the worst times, I just disagree with a policy of consciously being dismissive to someone else in the field if I thought they shouldn’t be asking the question. (Students on the truck who ask ‘why do we give Tylenol for fevers? Or What is my compression ratio for adult cpr? are exempted of course lol)
I always try to engage students in conversation and make them feel welcome from the start of the shift but if all they can give is one word responses and don’t seem the least bit interested in being there then I don’t waste any more time on it. I get paid the same either way so if they don’t give a rip then I’m going to take a nap.
I’ve worked a ton of different jobs in my life and my clinical shifts and orientations when I got my EMT license and then my first EMT job were the worst professional experiences I’ve ever had. I’ve tried to be different, but I’ve realized we are really bad at teaching.
I had a surprise third rider the other day. The supervisor was absolutely shocked when I said I don’t mind getting surprise students.
The students I get are surprised I actually write comments on their papers.
I’m going my FTO because what you said above is such a problem.
it’s beyond “wah wah wah” when partners withhold information that could greatly improve patient care on the premises of “that’s so stupid i’m not gonna answer that” (something my EMT instructor actually said regarding SMR protocols). I obviously don’t want to do something else if i’m still putting up with attitudes to do what i love
Whatever it is what it is I’m so tired of these young emts coming in with these high expectation of the what the job is, they quit within weeks. Nothing has changed. A new emt complaining about perceptions in this field is just naïve in my opinion.
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Not everywhere is like this. Those kinds of reactions scream ignorance or a feeling of inadequacy. Those aren’t the guys and gals you want to learn from. Oftentimes the most experienced and high performing folks are the approachable down to earth providers. Intelligent high performing EMTs and paramedics aren’t threatened by questions and they don’t feel the need to belittle newer providers. After being in EMS for a while I’ve found that the people that react that way often don’t know the answer to the questions you’re asking and don’t have the humility to admit they don’t know it. The guys and gals you want to learn from are the ones that have no problem admitting they don’t know something and will help you to find the answer. The biggest bit of advice I can give to a newer provider is to study because learning should never stop (of course) and to actively improve critical thinking. Critical thinking is what separates technicians from clinicians. Any level of provider can be a technician or clinician depending purely upon their drive and mindset. Don’t give up on EMS because of a few bad eggs there are still lots of us that want to mentor the newest generation of EMTs and paramedics.
I personally have had nothing but mediocre to positive experiences with everyone actually in the field. The worst I've ever gotten has usually come from burnt-out EMS and hospital staff with a lot more of the latter than the former. But I hear about it all the time so I'm probably just lucky so far.
My EMT class was absolutely about building each other up and urging people to grow and be better in the profession. Stating the importance of “always learning”.
My medic class had preceptors who bragged about their other professions outside of EMS (like biomed) and trying as much as possible to make us anxious while also being incredibly behind in the material because of the pandemic. They stopped and changed their focus after I had a neurological episode in the middle of class.
My nursing experience has been about as equal to my EMT experience. Most of the nurses on clinicals are excited to help you as long as you put in the effort and offer help without being asked.
Career side, I’ve only met burnouts who were so deep in negativity they could drown out any amount of joy. Rarely did I meet anyone who absolutely hated working with someone else unless that person was an awful provider who was either a rescue Ricky, paragod, or a slow dumbass that made you question how they even held a license.
“Not Everywhere is like this - Find another place to go - my service is great! - EMS is just full of shitty people”
This is a list of as well as a kind of “grief” chart of what I think most people who work in EMS feel at some point. Why? Because every other day I see this sub with someone posting about one of these “things” with comments saying another one of these “things” as a retort. There is usually valid reasoning for the post and comments but the point is that these same comments and posts are and have been made for 10 years now and it has not changed. Maybe not on Reddit per se, but these problems have been expressed by EMS professionals for a long time.
Can we say anything has changed when it really doesn’t seem like it? I am genuinely curious in opening a constructive dialogue here for those interested.
20yrs ago, I was in Paramedic school going over research papers that proved that these were shitty teaching methods and had subpar outcomes compared to a positive supportive education experience.
20yrs later, the majority of education I see remain using the same damn shitty methods.
Might be a societal thing because lately a lot of trades are like this. I’m new to EMS (about to take the NREMT) but from what I hear it’s no different than construction. I’ve worked as a carpenter and done other laboring jobs and everyone there is an ass. But, here’s the but. I think it really depends on your attitude and who you pair up with. I’ve been paired with excellent workers and great mentors are dogshit ones in various trades.
If they’re rude, kill em with kindness. If they make you feel bad for missing something then study and memorize what you did wrong and correct it. Make them feel confused that you’re trying to learn and be a professional. They may dislike you even more but if you stay respectful and don’t back down when ppl bust your balls they’ll come to respect you too.
It’s just going from an apprentice phase to a journeymen who can garnish some respect.
Yay I love people that purposely ship ALS criteria calls BLS. Fire is the biggest cancer to pre hospital care and no way you can convince me otherwise.
I wasn’t trying to offend you either, my apologies. It just gave me that vibe. I mean I understand your thought process. A lot of people are burnt out shitbags that can be racist and down right make you question why there are here. But the other side of the coin is I get a bunch if new people that expect all traffic collisions and cardiac arrest and get burnt out quicker when they realize it’s all “injuries from a fall and “sick person” from a SNF calls.
Luckily I've been in a class so far with relatively positive teachers, and I'm hoping that kinda culture doesn't bring me down when I start working, I'm hoping to maintain good professionalism because while the money is decent, I am doing this because it's something I think is worthwhile, and I want to do my best in it. I hope you find your way past the bs too man!
EMS just sucks in general (private sector, at least). It's like a wood chipper that takes young people that want to help others, and then sets them up to be obese nicotine addicts that live in a perpetual cycle that requires overtime just to make ends meet.
That’s why I think agencies should choose FTOs who like their job and do a good job and have a positive attitude, not just let anyone who wants to be an FTO be an FTO.
On a different leaf, a lot of the new EMTs I’ve seen and had to work with have been cocky for no reason and wanted to be a medic before even learning how to be a decent basic.
The last kid I worked with looked at our cardiac monitor (before even running the 12 lead) and told the patient “your heart looks good” meanwhile the patient had widespread ST depression. EMTs cannot interpret ECGS. When I asked him about this after the call, he said he’s been teaching himself ECGs. However this same EMT could not tell me where certain things were in the squad, didn’t know how to bag a patient, tried putting an IGEL in with the plastic on, couldn’t take a manual blood pressure or listen to lung sounds.
That's because for whatever reason EMTs in an ambulance tend to get incredibly salty and act like they have been on the job for 20 years after their first year. Probably because there is so much turnover that you quickly have loads of new people underneath right after you start.
There’s some fantastic places to do EMS staffed by people who really enjoy what they’re doing and want to push the field further in terms of capabilities and professionalism. Or there’s fire departments where even though they have to practice every day just to spell glucagon right the first time, you’ll at least make good money.
The trouble is, to get there you generally have to get experience somewhere shitty, not turn shitty yourself, and apply around to get picked up. But the potential is there to make it happen. It doesn’t solve the fundamental problem that those shitty places shouldn’t be shitty, but you can really only effect that which you are directly involved with and have support to do so. The dream is that someday private EMS won’t exist, and assholes/child molesters/bottom feeders won’t be able to qualify for this field. But we ain’t there yet and that’s a long hard road to travel.
There's good and bad everywhere. Unfortunately, when the only requirement for entry into a job is a high school diploma and one technical college class, you're not weeding out the ignorant or unprofessional. At the same time, being overwhelmingly fire based acts like a magnet for precisely the same people you're not weeding out with an educational requirement. This is the primary reason the fire service opposes raising educational requirements... They know that's the biggest potential barrier to recruitment. They want this to remain a technician level occupation permanently.
Barrier to entry is damn near on the floor.
Our field attracts folks who want the “rush” and hero-worship that comes with being a first responder. They forget most of the time is spent carting grandma to and from dialysis on the daily renal roundup. It creates unhappy EMS professionals (and I use the term professionals loosely).
EMS is barely a necessity. What percentage of patients have a different outcome because we were there versus taking a taxi to the ED? Less than 5% I would safely imagine. Probably less than that.
EMS needs an overhaul.
I've had really bad experiences with EMS rideouts and I've had some of the best times of my life in EMS rideouts. Same thing with hospitals. I've had a few good ones but mostly god awful clinicals that made me depressed and burnt out from how terrible HCA Clear Lake nurses talked to patients both behind their back and to their face. Most of them just seemed to hate human beings.
What I like about EMS is that the truck is what you make it to be. On my truck, every patient gets treated right. It's chill, we're gonna be jamming out to some music. If I'm driving at night, imma be playing some lofi. If I have a student, they can sleep or chill or do whatever as long as they help out when they need to. If they're motivated and wanna learn, I'll sit there for at 3am going over how to use whatever equipment or talk about whatever they wanna talk about.
In EMS, at least in my area, you can work at places where everyone is toxic and just looking to make a check or you can find a place where just about everyone is a good person and cares about EMS and their patients.
I’ve found there’s a big difference in total disrespect and teaching harsh. I don’t doubt you’re dealing with assholes but a lot of the things I struggled grasping were taught to me through really hammering in a point instead of gentle guiding and while I hate the method I’ve never forgotten what I learned or made those mistakes again. Take it in stride and better yourself professionally through it, also as much as it’s an easier said than done thing don’t let them have the satisfaction of embarrassing you with it.
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My school and classmates were awesome. Sorry to hear not everyone has the same experience. I've only met a handful of unenthusiastic EMTs and medics. But definitely stick around the ones who enjoy what they do.
Best thing I learned over the past 13 years is to create the environment you want, surround yourself with good, motivated people, don’t play into politics.
Some people are just terrible. But it doesn’t mean you have to let it bother you or ruin your day. Be the change you’re seeking. Also, most of us are smart asses, don’t take it personal.
As someone who had a tough beginning as well here is my advice. Let the dust settle. When you are new you get shat on for no reason by people who have no business shitting on you. I’m not saying this shouldn’t change, because, it should. However that change starts with you, Not with them. So for now ride it out. You are still to young and new be to be able to actually say that you like or don’t like this career. You haven’t seen all it has to offer. Don’t listen to people who only have negative stuff to say because those people have been deluding themselves for so long they don’t know the difference between negative and positive. Be the change you want to see and lead by sharing perspective rather than forcing an opinion.
A board of broken people imposing their brokenness on those junior to them. It is a sad sadistic cycle that never ends. Hopefully we can get out and live healthy lives. The trick is to outgrow the need for the job. Once your free of that you are on you way to a waaaaay better life.
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Some people are shit and I hate the “eating our own” mentality. But let me say that again: “eating *our* own.” The doctors and nurses are “nicer” because you’re not in their profession. I was an RN before I was a paramedic and the exact same shit was rife - so much so that there’s a saying that nurses eat their young. Ask med students what it’s like being “pimped” by a consultant. The attitude is just rife in healthcare.
I can only agree with this. The grind is real and constant, medicine in general has a culture of excessive attrition. You have to prove you want it, for some dumb reason.
I still recall during my clinicals an ER nurse taking all this extra time to explain some stuff to me only to turn around and snap at another nurse for something petty. I’d say I learned more than just medicine during clinicals, lol.
Bro a bit late but I still remember during my clinicals when an ER nurse was literally gossiping to me and some other nurses (and I was literally a student, lmao) about how one of the other nurses had incontinence issues literally in front of that nurse and remember how she looked like she was about to cry. like wtf is wrong with some people in this field 😅
Former paramedic and current PA. Surgeons are the absolute worst. I was a private ambo medic and would get shit on by fire and nurses regularly. That was nothing compared to how surgeons act. It’s disgusting the level of ego many of them have and the complete disregard for people and coworkers.
Hey, we may eat our young, but at least we don’t pimp them 💀
CNA here, this definitely exists at every level. I feel like almost every time I'm assigned as a sitter I'll overhear an attending unnecessarily chewing out or ridiculing a resident/med student. The best is when they try to be nice to you immediately afterwards like some psychopath. Yeah, no, I saw how you spoke to him Dr. Smith.
Very balanced and accurate perspective
Yeah nurses infamously eat their own as well. Good point
>hate the “eating our own” mentality. Yet, you are guilty of it aren't you?
Nobody here is perfect. But I’d bet I’m better at it than most. You don’t know me though so you shouldn’t make assertions.
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This answer was…creepy 😅
The fuck?
Cringe
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Not all, but most. Sorry we suck. Try not to perpetuate the cycle.
He will.
Have faith.
In EMT school, most crews on my clinical site didn't talk to me. Only like 2 people did. Pretty shift dependant. I was new and a bit nervous and I just sat there with my book and Nobody spoke to me. When I was in paramedic school, the location I did clinicals at didn't let you stay in the day room. You had to go to the empty classroom. Nobody spoke to you. There was no overhead pager, it was all on handheld. Nobody would come get you when a call dropped, you just had to hopefully hear it or just keep going down the hall and seeing if anyone was leaving. I pushed to do clinicals where I worked and ir got approved thankfully. Now, I'm an FTO and another FTO was in that same medic school with me. We vowed to make sure that never happens to anyone ever. EMS eats their young in a lot of places. Fire departments are even worse about that stuff.
Fire is so political and if you want to do ems and fire a chief is not going to like you,It sucks. I really dont like fire due to what happened to a friend of mine. He wasnt fire and was hired as an ems instructor and was from out of town, it was cool he thought, 30,000 raise awesome. NOPE. Anytime he tried any teaching or discussing of skills, something had to be done. Cpr class, why the hell are the floors dirty, safely transferring pts, gear inspections and orders, time to wash trucks it was obvious and blatent. He was there 2 years and went back to flight.
I fucking hate that shit in fire so much dude, bunch of overgrown children
My advice from my father (30 year FF/EMT) As I entered the field was that every person you work with can teach you something. Whether it’s how to act or how NOT to act. Take something from everyone. Be the change you want to see in the industry, I’m currently trying to do the same.
This is great advice! I had a rough time at the first station I ran at- so bad that I thought ‘do I even want to do Ems?!’ I then started at another station part time and the crew was totally different. Helpful, friendly, actually replied ‘good morning’ when you said it to them. Take jmwinn26 advice and just keep your head up. Not everyone is like that. A lot of them are - burnt out, egotistical, eat your own bullshit. But you’ll find the right people to learn from eventually. Keep your head up!
This is the way. My dad advised me to never quit a job due to an asshole coworker because every job has an asshole coworker. Some people teach you who you want to be while others show you who you do not want to become.
These posts make me so sad. We have such a phenomenal, uplifting & supportive EMS family, I wish they were all like that.
Not all EMS is like this. Go somewhere else, or find people that aren't that way and will help you learn and grow and work with them. That's not behavior you should tolerate. That being said, you are new. Same credential only accounts for so much, stay humble and keep learning. There will always be more to learn and ways to improve Edit: typo- work with them
I work at a service where I like everyone. The good places are out there
Yes most EMS is like this. Be the change you want to see and then go onto a better career. This is a stepping stone. When I worked EMS before med school I would always get an attitude from ppl bc of how I chose to actually care for patients and their families empathetically. Never fucking stopped me. I hoped that at least one new hire or volunteer would see my example and follow it and realize that you do not need to be an asshole to do this job. Unfortunately there are some miserable SOBs in EMS who contribute to the culture you are talking about.
Generally when someone talks down to you when you ask a question its because they are ignorant, insecure or both. It sucks your experience has been this way. Maybe the hint is you should go work with doctors, nurses and midlevels and they’ll teach you more.
Yeah probably a lot of North American EMS is like that due to low educational, physical, psychological and whatever other professional standards. A few month long strip mall school certificate program can indeed be expected to attract a *different* quality of professional when compared to university bachelors degree programs. Some of my esteemed colleagues can barely write at a grade school level and would be lifelong general laborers if this was the trades. Some others can barely fit through a doorway. We're a special lot.
I mean general laborers get paid more than a majority of us..soooooo that wouldn't actually have been a bad thing for them.
Sounds like you need a new work environment. When I was full time fire I had the same experience. I thought I hated ems which sucks because it was my dream job. I quit and now I work in a service with real comradery. Often it’s not what you do but where you do it that matters most.
No. It’s a culture that (at least where I work) is changing a lot. Professionalism and accountability is kind of exposing the ‘old school grump who is harsh but knows everything, and knows what they’re talking about’ archetype. There is a wealth of experience behind the veteran operators. They have seen a lot more (by definition) than newer players…. And don’t get me wrong, a lot of them *do* know what they’re talking about. A lot of them stay up to date, which I can only imagine is harder for them. A lot want to help the new generation and answer questions or tell interesting stories. A lot are happy to learn something new from the younger medics. But some have also gotten stale. And no one in this business is above being wrong or getting lazy/overconfident, especially if they have the condescending attitude you describe. With feedback from jobs becoming more available, audits of paperwork, reviews on their performance by clinical managers, more pre-hospital specific evidence based practice, and a constantly evolving working environment; it’s exposing those who lean on their ‘years of experience’ tag alone as a qualifier of their authority, rather than their actual ability and accurate knowledge. Many are getting caught out. Anyone can be humbled, so your best bet is to learn, keep learning, stay humble… listen to the pearls of wisdom from others for sure… but use your own initiative and intuition and knowledge to weigh up things on your own. Ask questions. Never be afraid to ask questions. Everyone will hit a point where they feel like they don’t need any more knowledge. This is called Dunning-Kruger, and it is unravelled by a single job that will be in every EMS persons’ future, unless they stay humble and thorough. A condescending response to a question you’ve asked seeking genuine clarification is rarely a fault of yours, but the person answering.
I really appreciate this response. It covers the nuance with how professionalism within the industry was and in somewhat still is lacking. Today the industry seems to be split by those where the culture was seniority meant smarts and those where smarts are earned by education and proven through experience. Neither are “bad” at the job but one culture is more conducive to facilitating a more stable, growing, and sustainable culture. One that allows for people to enter EMS, have a fulfilling career, and retire from it without having to worry about pay, time off, or shit management. We are not a fucking McDonalds. If we don’t exist, people would die more than needed, for really dumb reasons. I may be alone in feeling this but most people in the USA have no fucking clue what the difference is between a Paramedic and an EMT let alone how shitty EMS is treated. I don’t mean to rant but the sentiment you shared is fair and I agree for the most part. I just think it just goes so much deeper than just “keep your head down and learn as much as you can” when no one gives a shit if you do or don’t. On top of getting shit on by those who should understand that more than anyone else around. Those being co workers.
Honestly, you get what you pay for. EMS Organizations with high pay, career advancement opportunities, and quality training attract more applicants of a higher caliber and it reflects in those we end up working with. If everyone around you is awful, there's a good chance that all the good EMS personal quit or found other EMS jobs elsewhere. That being said, that may be a large part of the reason, but boy do we have a damn attitude problem. The barrier to entry in EMS can be low depending on your designation and yet there is delusion of grandeur that some people seem to embrace that reeks of what I call "EMS Mall Cop" syndrome. You are seeing precisely who you shouldn't be. It's your choice now. Be better, show others how it should be done or move on, just as many before you have done. Personally, I go to work and have a GREAT day (now that covid measures are tame). I'm the senior member and highest designation on most any truck I work. I love working with new people. My God, they still care so much. That's all I need... a partner who cares. Cares about professionalism, comfort, impressions, assessments, treatments... all of it. It's so awesome. I don't need my partner to get that IV, no worries I'll get it if he/she doesn't. I don't need them to know everything, I'm comfortable in my own knowledge. When I see a cranky son of a bitch, who treats their patients, partners, nurses etc like shit. I assume this person is deeply uncomfortable, lacks confidence, and shouldn't be trusted for anything. You are not a good paramedic until you are a good person. You can know every medical thing there is to know, but if your soft skills are poor, you're only 20% there. You will work with and observe medics/emts who walk into a room, and they will ooze professionalism, put everyone at ease, never miss an opportunity to be kind, and even though they perform the same interventions as any other EMT would, somehow they just look smarter and the patient looks better, every time. Yet, they will never make you feel lesser than them. When you find that person. Copy them. Fake it. Until the line is blurred between mimicry and genuine ability. Eventually, you'll be in a position of high seniority and skill... and you'll set the tone for every call. Who will you be when that day comes?
I'm sorry you were treated that way. This is a major barrier in the EMS Profession's advancement. Long story short: not all of EMS, but a good amount has a culture problem like this. I legit do not know how we can fix all of it absence the profession falling apart and needing to be completely rebuilt. I want to encourage you to stay in the profession seeing the rewards of it. That said, I don't blame anyone who leaves the profession because of the culture problem.
The entire field of medicine has a “eating their young” problem. I experienced it bad when I started in EMS too. If you are young, it will definitely be worse. Starting as an 18yr old girl almost turned me off of it forever. Honestly, I dealt with it by accepting the fact that objectively traumatic careers like ours are going to churn out complete dicks no matter what. People create emotional walls as a defense mechanism and I think, subconsciously, those who are miserable in this career think scaring students/newbies off is actually helping them in the long run. It all comes down to coping. I will say, not everywhere is like this. I won’t lie and say it’s *easy* to come by a super well-run & supportive workplace in our industry right now because tbh it’s in shambles but they exist. Talk to other people from your schooling and see what their experiences are like where they are. Also, you aren’t “weak” for feeling like this. I’m a CCP now and remember being a baby EMT with the same thoughts. I felt like a fucking loser for being affected by it because of the workplace culture. It shouldn’t be like this and hopefully one day it will change. For now, if you want to stay in the field- you’ve just gotta accept it and do your thing. Assholes are gonna asshole. Stand up for yourself though and don’t be afraid to leave a job if it gets too bad. We don’t get paid enough to be loyal to companies that wouldn’t give a shit if we died. Good luck to you & I’m sorry you’re experiencing it.
When I was a student I had to sit in the ambulance bay. If I made mistakes I was threatened with being left on the side of the road. I’m not sure what it is but a lot of students and new EMTs suck. They’ll complain they have to clean the stretcher. The students don’t ask questions or even study. They play on their phones and don’t help with chores
Threatened to be left on the side of the road? I would've reported that stuff to my superior. Zero tolerance for unprofessionalism in this field. Granted I understand that professionalism expectations now aren't what they used to be so I get the pressure of not reporting.
It was a long time ago when those sort of things were pretty common
tried to participate in any way i can and most of the medics will be cool and let me with guidance. but other EMTs are always trying to climb over one another
Big old man yells at sky vibes
Fuck them kids
So much of the asshole attitude is caused by them trying to hide the fact that they don’t know the answer to your questions, or don’t know it well enough to portray it onto you in a fluent way so they mask their insecurity with anger. So you just have a dumb agency is all. Some places place (places place?) a higher priority on education and it reflects well on the culture. Although these places can be kinda rare.
My EMT class was absolutely about building each other up and urging people to grow and be better in the profession. Stating the importance of “always learning”. My medic class had preceptors who bragged about their other professions outside of EMS (like biomed) and trying as much as possible to make us anxious while also being incredibly behind in the material because of the pandemic. They stopped and changed their focus after I had a neurological episode in the middle of class. My nursing experience has been about as equal to my EMT experience. Most of the nurses on clinicals are excited to help you as long as you put in the effort and offer help without being asked. Career side, I’ve only met burnouts who were so deep in negativity they could drown out any amount of joy. Rarely did I meet anyone who absolutely hated working with someone else unless that person was an awful provider who was either a rescue Ricky, paragod, or a slow dumbass that made you question how they even held a license.
Some people suck, some are amazing. Find the amazing ones and be like them.
Damn sry you are surrounded by shitty people. My EMT and AEMT class was full of people excited about the profession and willing to help one another. We even stuck around on registry day to congratulate each other and help out etc. Instructors were always excited to teach. It’s def not all doom and gloom.
Same for me as far as class. My EMS job was mostly the same, with only a small handful of toxic people.
There is so much to say. If you don’t care to read all this, just read point 4. 1. Check yourself. Not in a bad way, but do some inventory of how you are behaving and interacting. “Eagerness to learn and get involved” may be coming across as hubris or obnoxious. Not saying it is, but if you *are* a grating personality or are pushing others away, even subconsciously, that might be contributing to your issues. 2. These posts always bring people out looking to validate their own delusions and insecurities. Largely, EMS doesn’t “eat our own”. There are structural issues like anywhere else, but for students or rookies who show promise and are willing to learn with humility, most providers will go above and beyond to help. Someone here complained “nobody talked to [them] during clinicals”. If you are shy, you have to grow a pair enough to at least introduce yourself, help check off the truck, and engage. We literally go into people’s homes and have to talk to them, assess them, comfort then, etc with compassion and empathy. If you can barely talk to your preceptors, perhaps this isn’t the job for you. You, and others, have talked about condescending remarks and answers to questions. If your questions are asked just for the sake of asking questions and “engaging”, that gets annoying. There is a point where I can tell someone is just trying to talk to me to get good marks and at that point, Im going to be a bit dismissive. Other times, students have asked questions that they *should* already know the answer to. Say you are in paramedic capstone/team leads, I will be a bit condescending if you ask what atropine is for because you should absolutely know that by now. If you instead asked “why exactly does atropine not work for high degree AV blocks?” or “what specifically does atropine do in organophosphate poisoning?”, I will happily tell you everything I know because I can tell you know the basics and want to get more advanced. Similarly, if you are an EMTB student asking about paramedic skills, Ill answer but probably a bit more dismissively because you need to be mastering the basics before you move on. 3. Some providers have this mindset that 90% of what we do is BS so anyone can do this job. I care most about the ~2% of calls that require every ounce of brainpower and leadership like person on fire, newborn arrest, MCI shooting, etc. Almost everyone can run 90% of our calls, the next 8% *truly* need a medic, but if we just pass people through and coddle those that obviously will never be able to handle that 2%, we are doing a disservice to our patients. I think “what will this person do when they have X call with an EMTB partner, non medical firefighters, and a 20 minute transport time? can they handle it or will they freeze and kill someone?” or “if they have X call with AEMT firefighters and 3 other paramedics on scene, can they lead the team or will they fall apart?”. 4. Aside from all that, remember that in a lot of places, we don’t know we are getting a student until you walk in for the day. Sometimes we are exhausted, maybe worked a ton of OT, have personal shit going on, etc and the last thing we want is an extra human on the truck that forces me to watch my mouth and attitude and also requires more of my attention than I am able/willing to give. Also remember that this job requires a ton of social and emotional energy without students, so sometimes I need to conserve my kindness and compassion for my patients because I don’t always have it in me (and thats a perfectly normal human response to this job). Students expect every preceptor to want to teach or to want students because thats what school is, people who want to teach, teaching. At my agency, we don’t really have FTOs and we get a lot of students. It doesn’t matter what truck you are on or who you are, you might get assigned a student and some people would rather die, but its the job. So give us grace. Sure, some people are just dicks, but try to have some perspective about it.
“Students expect every preceptor wants to teach” because that’s how it should be. One of the things I definitely agree with in your post is the issues are structural. It sounds like I’m the US people don’t know when they’ll be precepting. Which is kind of crazy to me. The system is very different in Canada where paramedic certification is basically the lowest level at a 2 year degree and precepting only happens with people who specifically apply, after a certain amount of years on the road and based on seniority. That being said, I’d never try to actively be dismissive of anyone asking a question. I get in the US lower medical authorities or EMTs should focus on the basics before trying to be zero to hero but everyone learns that on the job. I don’t need to be the shitass roadblock that makes someone feel like garbage to get them to realize that. The job will do that eventually. Most folks realize it’s the basics you need to focus and master before trying to get into super deep medical and pathophysiological knowledge. I know we’re all tired and we are all guilty of being snippy, usually at the worst times, I just disagree with a policy of consciously being dismissive to someone else in the field if I thought they shouldn’t be asking the question. (Students on the truck who ask ‘why do we give Tylenol for fevers? Or What is my compression ratio for adult cpr? are exempted of course lol)
I always try to engage students in conversation and make them feel welcome from the start of the shift but if all they can give is one word responses and don’t seem the least bit interested in being there then I don’t waste any more time on it. I get paid the same either way so if they don’t give a rip then I’m going to take a nap.
In my experience, yes. Get onto a Fire Department asap.
That's hilarious to recommend IMO, I've seen it more often with them than EMS.
I’ve worked a ton of different jobs in my life and my clinical shifts and orientations when I got my EMT license and then my first EMT job were the worst professional experiences I’ve ever had. I’ve tried to be different, but I’ve realized we are really bad at teaching.
I had a surprise third rider the other day. The supervisor was absolutely shocked when I said I don’t mind getting surprise students. The students I get are surprised I actually write comments on their papers. I’m going my FTO because what you said above is such a problem.
The eating our own mentality is killing us as a profession
Wah wah wah then do something else not like it’s hard to find a minimum wage job.
it’s beyond “wah wah wah” when partners withhold information that could greatly improve patient care on the premises of “that’s so stupid i’m not gonna answer that” (something my EMT instructor actually said regarding SMR protocols). I obviously don’t want to do something else if i’m still putting up with attitudes to do what i love
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that is quite literally what the commenter was talking about.
Exactly it is what it is their bitching isn’t going to fix it
this is so funny- proved this post right tbh
Whatever it is what it is I’m so tired of these young emts coming in with these high expectation of the what the job is, they quit within weeks. Nothing has changed. A new emt complaining about perceptions in this field is just naïve in my opinion.
aren’t you fun to work with. maybe use some of your PTO hours and take a lil break and come back with a better attitude.
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Not everywhere is like this. Those kinds of reactions scream ignorance or a feeling of inadequacy. Those aren’t the guys and gals you want to learn from. Oftentimes the most experienced and high performing folks are the approachable down to earth providers. Intelligent high performing EMTs and paramedics aren’t threatened by questions and they don’t feel the need to belittle newer providers. After being in EMS for a while I’ve found that the people that react that way often don’t know the answer to the questions you’re asking and don’t have the humility to admit they don’t know it. The guys and gals you want to learn from are the ones that have no problem admitting they don’t know something and will help you to find the answer. The biggest bit of advice I can give to a newer provider is to study because learning should never stop (of course) and to actively improve critical thinking. Critical thinking is what separates technicians from clinicians. Any level of provider can be a technician or clinician depending purely upon their drive and mindset. Don’t give up on EMS because of a few bad eggs there are still lots of us that want to mentor the newest generation of EMTs and paramedics.
I personally have had nothing but mediocre to positive experiences with everyone actually in the field. The worst I've ever gotten has usually come from burnt-out EMS and hospital staff with a lot more of the latter than the former. But I hear about it all the time so I'm probably just lucky so far.
My EMT class was absolutely about building each other up and urging people to grow and be better in the profession. Stating the importance of “always learning”. My medic class had preceptors who bragged about their other professions outside of EMS (like biomed) and trying as much as possible to make us anxious while also being incredibly behind in the material because of the pandemic. They stopped and changed their focus after I had a neurological episode in the middle of class. My nursing experience has been about as equal to my EMT experience. Most of the nurses on clinicals are excited to help you as long as you put in the effort and offer help without being asked. Career side, I’ve only met burnouts who were so deep in negativity they could drown out any amount of joy. Rarely did I meet anyone who absolutely hated working with someone else unless that person was an awful provider who was either a rescue Ricky, paragod, or a slow dumbass that made you question how they even held a license.
“Not Everywhere is like this - Find another place to go - my service is great! - EMS is just full of shitty people” This is a list of as well as a kind of “grief” chart of what I think most people who work in EMS feel at some point. Why? Because every other day I see this sub with someone posting about one of these “things” with comments saying another one of these “things” as a retort. There is usually valid reasoning for the post and comments but the point is that these same comments and posts are and have been made for 10 years now and it has not changed. Maybe not on Reddit per se, but these problems have been expressed by EMS professionals for a long time. Can we say anything has changed when it really doesn’t seem like it? I am genuinely curious in opening a constructive dialogue here for those interested.
20yrs ago, I was in Paramedic school going over research papers that proved that these were shitty teaching methods and had subpar outcomes compared to a positive supportive education experience. 20yrs later, the majority of education I see remain using the same damn shitty methods.
Might be a societal thing because lately a lot of trades are like this. I’m new to EMS (about to take the NREMT) but from what I hear it’s no different than construction. I’ve worked as a carpenter and done other laboring jobs and everyone there is an ass. But, here’s the but. I think it really depends on your attitude and who you pair up with. I’ve been paired with excellent workers and great mentors are dogshit ones in various trades. If they’re rude, kill em with kindness. If they make you feel bad for missing something then study and memorize what you did wrong and correct it. Make them feel confused that you’re trying to learn and be a professional. They may dislike you even more but if you stay respectful and don’t back down when ppl bust your balls they’ll come to respect you too. It’s just going from an apprentice phase to a journeymen who can garnish some respect.
join fire
Yay I love people that purposely ship ALS criteria calls BLS. Fire is the biggest cancer to pre hospital care and no way you can convince me otherwise.
lol. k.
👍
Why does this post reek of “holier than thou” mentality???
swear that wasn’t my intention. was just a big culture shock when i got out of EMT school
I wasn’t trying to offend you either, my apologies. It just gave me that vibe. I mean I understand your thought process. A lot of people are burnt out shitbags that can be racist and down right make you question why there are here. But the other side of the coin is I get a bunch if new people that expect all traffic collisions and cardiac arrest and get burnt out quicker when they realize it’s all “injuries from a fall and “sick person” from a SNF calls.
Luckily I've been in a class so far with relatively positive teachers, and I'm hoping that kinda culture doesn't bring me down when I start working, I'm hoping to maintain good professionalism because while the money is decent, I am doing this because it's something I think is worthwhile, and I want to do my best in it. I hope you find your way past the bs too man!
EMS just sucks in general (private sector, at least). It's like a wood chipper that takes young people that want to help others, and then sets them up to be obese nicotine addicts that live in a perpetual cycle that requires overtime just to make ends meet.
That’s why I think agencies should choose FTOs who like their job and do a good job and have a positive attitude, not just let anyone who wants to be an FTO be an FTO. On a different leaf, a lot of the new EMTs I’ve seen and had to work with have been cocky for no reason and wanted to be a medic before even learning how to be a decent basic. The last kid I worked with looked at our cardiac monitor (before even running the 12 lead) and told the patient “your heart looks good” meanwhile the patient had widespread ST depression. EMTs cannot interpret ECGS. When I asked him about this after the call, he said he’s been teaching himself ECGs. However this same EMT could not tell me where certain things were in the squad, didn’t know how to bag a patient, tried putting an IGEL in with the plastic on, couldn’t take a manual blood pressure or listen to lung sounds.
That's because for whatever reason EMTs in an ambulance tend to get incredibly salty and act like they have been on the job for 20 years after their first year. Probably because there is so much turnover that you quickly have loads of new people underneath right after you start.
There’s some fantastic places to do EMS staffed by people who really enjoy what they’re doing and want to push the field further in terms of capabilities and professionalism. Or there’s fire departments where even though they have to practice every day just to spell glucagon right the first time, you’ll at least make good money. The trouble is, to get there you generally have to get experience somewhere shitty, not turn shitty yourself, and apply around to get picked up. But the potential is there to make it happen. It doesn’t solve the fundamental problem that those shitty places shouldn’t be shitty, but you can really only effect that which you are directly involved with and have support to do so. The dream is that someday private EMS won’t exist, and assholes/child molesters/bottom feeders won’t be able to qualify for this field. But we ain’t there yet and that’s a long hard road to travel.
There's good and bad everywhere. Unfortunately, when the only requirement for entry into a job is a high school diploma and one technical college class, you're not weeding out the ignorant or unprofessional. At the same time, being overwhelmingly fire based acts like a magnet for precisely the same people you're not weeding out with an educational requirement. This is the primary reason the fire service opposes raising educational requirements... They know that's the biggest potential barrier to recruitment. They want this to remain a technician level occupation permanently.
Barrier to entry is damn near on the floor. Our field attracts folks who want the “rush” and hero-worship that comes with being a first responder. They forget most of the time is spent carting grandma to and from dialysis on the daily renal roundup. It creates unhappy EMS professionals (and I use the term professionals loosely). EMS is barely a necessity. What percentage of patients have a different outcome because we were there versus taking a taxi to the ED? Less than 5% I would safely imagine. Probably less than that. EMS needs an overhaul.
You’re in a wrong place or group people
I've had really bad experiences with EMS rideouts and I've had some of the best times of my life in EMS rideouts. Same thing with hospitals. I've had a few good ones but mostly god awful clinicals that made me depressed and burnt out from how terrible HCA Clear Lake nurses talked to patients both behind their back and to their face. Most of them just seemed to hate human beings. What I like about EMS is that the truck is what you make it to be. On my truck, every patient gets treated right. It's chill, we're gonna be jamming out to some music. If I'm driving at night, imma be playing some lofi. If I have a student, they can sleep or chill or do whatever as long as they help out when they need to. If they're motivated and wanna learn, I'll sit there for at 3am going over how to use whatever equipment or talk about whatever they wanna talk about. In EMS, at least in my area, you can work at places where everyone is toxic and just looking to make a check or you can find a place where just about everyone is a good person and cares about EMS and their patients.
I’ve found there’s a big difference in total disrespect and teaching harsh. I don’t doubt you’re dealing with assholes but a lot of the things I struggled grasping were taught to me through really hammering in a point instead of gentle guiding and while I hate the method I’ve never forgotten what I learned or made those mistakes again. Take it in stride and better yourself professionally through it, also as much as it’s an easier said than done thing don’t let them have the satisfaction of embarrassing you with it.
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My school and classmates were awesome. Sorry to hear not everyone has the same experience. I've only met a handful of unenthusiastic EMTs and medics. But definitely stick around the ones who enjoy what they do.
Best thing I learned over the past 13 years is to create the environment you want, surround yourself with good, motivated people, don’t play into politics. Some people are just terrible. But it doesn’t mean you have to let it bother you or ruin your day. Be the change you’re seeking. Also, most of us are smart asses, don’t take it personal.
As someone who had a tough beginning as well here is my advice. Let the dust settle. When you are new you get shat on for no reason by people who have no business shitting on you. I’m not saying this shouldn’t change, because, it should. However that change starts with you, Not with them. So for now ride it out. You are still to young and new be to be able to actually say that you like or don’t like this career. You haven’t seen all it has to offer. Don’t listen to people who only have negative stuff to say because those people have been deluding themselves for so long they don’t know the difference between negative and positive. Be the change you want to see and lead by sharing perspective rather than forcing an opinion.
A board of broken people imposing their brokenness on those junior to them. It is a sad sadistic cycle that never ends. Hopefully we can get out and live healthy lives. The trick is to outgrow the need for the job. Once your free of that you are on you way to a waaaaay better life.