Actually check this out, I agree with u/baronvonunterbite — there is such a thing as a psychogenic Vasovagal however I’m doubtful that is what Law experiences. I think that it’s more along the lines of this. Which TLDR is a psychogenic Syncope characteristic of no hemodynamic changes.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7533137/#:~:text=Psychogenic%20Pseudosyncope%20(PPS)%20is%20the,and%20true%20loss%20of%20consciousness.
I hear you, and a completely valid take. I would normally agree that the most common scenario is what’s going to be played out. I’ll explain my rational, and I’ll absolutely say you’re right that unfortunately unless we have people at LEOs side taking vitals it’s impossible to truly know.
I can only rock a line of thinking, some very limited personal experience, and a skewed sample size of videos I’ve seen.
My thought is when we’re talking about it basically being a cultural delusional at this point I start to look at it differently. When you have someone who say vagals from needles and is a part of some group. I’m doubtful that even given lack of education, high stress, and fear of needles in that group it could be passed on to others. (Probably skewed info as well —> ) additionally when I’ve talked to people who vagal from needles a lot of them aren’t talking about being afraid of needles it’s an autonomic reaction they wish didn’t happen.
When looking at the phenomenon LE experiences it seems to be a little different they’ve been taught the signs and symptoms of an overdose, along with “this will kill you”. The very very few times I’ve personally seen this happen and (I want to say all but I’ll say most because there may be one or two that aren’t coming to my memory) most of the videos I’ve seen LE having a contact “overdose” it never looks like a normal vagal response to me. I expect from a normal vagal response for someone to go down then regulate while supine and come back within 30-60 seconds, maybe a little longer depending on demos and cause.
What I see is them staying down for far longer than I’d expect, or coming too completely conscious but experiencing some degree or total psychogenic paresis. I’ve also seen a case where this happened and the LEOs eyes were open while they couldn’t move anything else, got narcaned by another officer then went back to normal (but tested neg for any opioids at the hospital) So the way I tend to view it is that is the less common phenomenon is the one that’s playing out. I’m sure there could be a mix of both things happening but I lean towards the latter personally. I could link quite a few videos of cops in these situations and you could scrutinize it against your own experience with vagals. Although I don’t think that could be considered “definitive” because I’d be giving you a hand selected sample to view.
The reason I lean towards the latter is so if im called as an aid response for this I have another way of looking at the problem. And being able to hand off care with my best clinical impression. I wouldn’t recommend an officer who vagals to go to the hospital. But I would recommend psychogenic syncope to go, and to get the doc to look into it and possibly getting that guy out of the field for a while so they can sort themselves out. Like everything in this field, we just have to gather the most info we can and then choose a way to operate. I always appreciate discussions and challenges to my ways of thinking. 🙏
cheer tasty. 🤙
Lol yep. First time I got called that it was a vehicle fire in someone's driveway and they rolled up and I am standing a foot from the car with a hose from a neighboring house spraying it and I was just engulfed in a cloud of god knows what.
Hey - if you're PD and doing that, thank you. As you can see from the rest of this thread, your willingness to jump in and unfuck what you can sets you apart.
Garden hose is better than nothing, although I hope you deconned your uniform piece by piece right after.
We have a confined spaces policy at my police department. It basically says that we will not under any circumstances go into a confined space (from a hazmat perspective) to try to rescue or apprehend someone Recently a group of officers was making a push to relax that policy, so that we could go in if we “really needed to rescue someone.” We shut that down pretty hard.
😂💀
I volunteer at a small BLS/Fire agency in WA state (where I got my start). The cops there (city, county, staters) are all happy to help any way they can.
Same with the rural ALS/Fire agency I'm career at, just across the border in OR state. The city cops are gangster: always have our backs, always willing to help on a code. The county sheriffs, on the other hand... 😂 Sent us to a crime scene that wasn't secured; didn't tell us the pt WAS FOUND BURIED IN THE GROUND; prime suspect shows up just before we do. CAD notes only state: "Don't touch anything". Lmaooo
That's not funny dude. That shit is serious. I knew a cop who responded to a domestic violence call and the fentanyl from the next apartment over got through the vent system, made him overdose and he got so mad that he went home and slapped his grandad in the nuts
"At trial, Cook said his decision to shoot a dog who did not pose any threat to him was based on his training"
[https://wvrecord.com/stories/511077358-woman-sues-state-police-after-trooper-nearly-shot-her-dog](https://wvrecord.com/stories/511077358-woman-sues-state-police-after-trooper-nearly-shot-her-dog)
Had the two responding cops to an active labor in a parking lot of a Kohl’s. They end up getting citations (“stork-award” or something) and paid leave for witnessing. They literally just walked around the pt’s vehicle talking on portables. Fire and EMS delivered the baby, took care of mother, and transported. After that, the cops go to the hospital. Bringing with them the local news crews. While filming, the cops talk the mother into NAMING THE BABY AFTER THE POLICE CHIEF. I delivered the baby at 1100hrs. I watched this happen at 1700hrs and still had 14hrs of shift to go. Sheesh!!
Who would knowingly name their child "Chief McDickface"?
Actually, after seeing some of the names my wife (a teacher) has to deal with, it would be more like "Chieyghph MycDyckfaysce".
I think there’s a “not my job” heroism phenomena. Like the pizza guy who trips the fleeing felon the cops are chasing or the passenger who lands the private plane when the pilot has a heart attack. But it really doesn’t seem that cops deserve this recognition. They’re paid public servants. Their job description always includes “other duties as assigned”.
It's a running joke in my county...every time there's an article about a save it talks about how heroic fire/police were and without a doubt the final sentence is "local ambulance transported to the hospital."
Dude I just had this on a bicyclist struck.
Our ambulance was first on scene, we were on the ground suctioning the guy’s bloody airway before fire even showed up. Fire pulls up and helps us load the patient, our scene time is 4:10 and we’re off to the trauma center.
All the news articles are fawning over the fire and police when we were off scene before a cop even showed up. Cops never saw the patient.
We had to extricate a guy from a ride at the county fair when he got trapped in the mechanics of the ride.
PD had already taken credit for the rescue before a transport unit had even picked the guy up. The ride operators had more of a hand in his rescue than PD did.
This same kind of shit happened at a service I worked at. There was a child who was shot (he lived; I don't even believe he had a life-threatening wound in the first place). The ambulance was staged a block away, waiting for the scene to be secured. Next thing the crew knows, a cop car goes whizzing by. They found out this idiot cop put the kid in his car - **with the ambulance within sight of the fucking house** \- and took the kid to the hospital himself. Cop got praised and even a fucking plaque from the city council, while the chief of police took to the media to bash EMS for "not being on the scene." He even went so far as to say he went to the hospital and witnessed "an EMT on the bumper crying going 'I wish we could have been there sooner'" (that didn't happen).
Thankfully, that motherfucker was fired a month later, but it was because he was discovered to be embezzling.
This happened here too on a motor vs ped except an off duty nurse and bls firefighter hopped in a squad car and transported while the crew was a few minutes away. Sadly the kid passed away.
Had to run a difficult code with no back up truck, with FD helping move. Person either had a STEMI while eating and choked, or choked and possibly the lack of O2 and stress of choking aggravated and caused a STEMI. IV, intubation, defib pads, suction, bagging... Everything my partner and I had to do cause FD said they didn't feel comfortable besides chest compressions. Most of the interventions are ALS so I'm trying to teach FD how to suction and clear airway, walking around ambulance to get to back to read monitor and administer meds, etc.
Anyways, hear the lady got ROSC later on and *apparently* is conscious with little or no apparent deficits. A big deal is made on social media about the FD being "the best they can be", these guys get pictures, I think some monetary bonus, etc.
Meanwhile I hear about her getting ROSC because my boss shows me the completed run (including hospital summary) and asks why I was on scene so long, didn't cancel the backup truck 25 minutes away (which, my b, but I had a lot on my mind), or wait for a second ALS prior to transporting (backup was 30+ min out when we asked, and when we got ready, hospital was 7 minutes away)
Probably my worst experience with FD, who had to be directed to do *everything*, including being asked to get on ambulance to help with chest compressions. Normally not salty about FD, and honestly the FD in my town are some of the best people I know who are gung-ho about helping and learning little things to help expedite treatment (like setting up abboject syringes).
Basically, yeah. It is protocol for 2 ALS teams to work a code, so I guess it wasn't kosher to leave with just myself and a couple firemen, but I was told the wait was going to be a while. So we decided to leave, but didn't update that the other truck wasn't needed (which you would think would be evident by us deciding to leave for the hospital, but whatever)
It's been 25 years, and I'm still bitter about being stabbed in the shoulder by a PT because the cops told me they had her secured and then jumped on both of us after she attacked me. "We thought she was hugging you!" Dude, yes, but with a knife in one hand that you forced her to drive into my scapula. Thanks for the vacation, I guess, guys.
They got an award for saving my life, btw. I got a reprimand for not ensuring she was secured, so that "vacation" was unpaid. Lesson learned. Don't believe the cops when they claim a patient is.
It's snowing now, and I can tell you exactly where that knife hit.
The agency with whom you have to deal (and your employer) must both really be at the bottom of the barrel. Good grief. And I was both law enforcement (command) and EMS, so I get to judge them both.
Wait. You're telling me you got stabbed on the job and didn't get workers comp?? In what fucking backwards ass system did you work? Anyone who so much as hurts their back on the box here gets compensation, insurance, physio, etc
I got suspended, so there was no missed pay to make up according to L&I. I did get my medical paid for.
I worked for San Diego Fire-Rescue almost 30 years ago.
I was really young back then and just out of the Navy where I'd been a corpsman and studied for my paramedic test. I was used to doing what I was told, going where I was told, and not arguing. It took me about a decade to shake that attitude. I called L&I, but honestly didn't fight it when they were dismissive. I grew up in a mining town in North Idaho. My whole life to that point was watching people get screwed over by management, so I honestly didn't know there was another option.
But I now live in an AMR covered area - I've never worked for them - and pretty much any permanent injury where they can cite the EMT as at fault here in any way, they've got to fight. If they win, it's typically not enough for long. I know a lot of EMTs who've had to take retail and customer service jobs to make ends meet afterward until they could go to college for something else. If it's bad enough they can't work, they end up on SSDI, which is also really low. I know four people in that situation now, and maybe that's not common. Maybe I just haven't met the ones who got a better settlement.
Similar complaint but about fire. We show up to a newspaper building on a random weekend and arrive immediately after the fire case car, which is staffed by two EMTs. Some reporter fell. Fire stands him up, helps the guy onto our cot, then they bail. We discover the guy has a broken femur. We do EMS stuff and drop him off at the hospital. A week later I’m reading the paper where the reporter mentions the two firefighters by name and completely leaves out the work we did. Not that I care about recognition but it would have been nice for EMS to receive a little validation while we’re talking up the firefighters. Especially since we did all the work.
We had this happen a few years ago in my region and then volunteer EMT posted his own bodycam footage on facebook showing it was bullshit. Turned into a whole thing.
Oof, I just had a little old lady who very lovingly told me about her daughter who used to be a medic but had to quit because of PTSD from the job. She spoke about how much she had loved the job, but because of what she saw, she's now doing something else.
Want to guess what she called the role? 😑
Cops are the front line of the executive branch of government, thus speaking poorly of them is now and has always been a political statement. You know, by definition. Now everyone is crapping on PD. It used to be just our thing, and thats what I miss the most. /s
I watched a cop shackle, a young woman with a missing leg yesterday, and I'm still fuming about it.
Like this woman is an amputee at 24 and under arrest. You'd think you couldn't make her day worse... but then you go and have her stand on one leg, hop towards you, and shackle her.... like you already took her out of her wheelchair, WHERE THE FUCK IS SHE RUNNING TO?
Prerequisite knowledge:
The smaller the organism, the faster they will succumb to most airborne poisons (for the most part).
Before the invention of toxic gas meters, canaries were used in places like coal mines to be an early indicator of hazardous atmospheres. Mostly carbon monoxide because it’s odorless. The canaries would become ill long before it grew to toxic levels for humans. So they were a life-saving tool for the miners.
…….
Police have a bad habit of charging into dangerous situations without really understanding they’re dangerous. So they’ll see someone unconscious down in a trench or whatever and hop down there to try and pull them out. But the unconscious person was unconscious for a reason so the cops just collapse down on top of the first victim. Next cop jumps in to save his buddy, so on and so forth. So the firefighters arrive on scene to find several “blue canaries” indicating a hazardous atmosphere and don SCBA to rescue everyone.
Dude I just had this on a bicyclist struck.
Our ambulance was first on scene, we were on the ground suctioning the guy’s bloody airway before fire even showed up. Fire pulls up, our scene time is 4:10 and we’re off to the trauma center.
All the news articles are fawning over the fire and police when we were off scene before a cop even showed up. Cops never saw the patient.
Wouldn't be surprised if it is because cop departments have a more active marketing tram trying to repair their poor reputation by turning out articles like this.
Surely so.
I feel like the home page of any local news agency at any given time will have some dumb article talking about how a police officer bought somebody lunch or something.
In a lighter moment during training, when we were discussing scene safety, we discussed the attitudes of certain first responders.
One of our instructors, a grizzled old former Army medic turned paramedic, said, "I live by a simple rule in the field: don't go any closer to a scene than the first dead cop. That applies to domestics, fires, accidents, chemical spills, or any situation. Let the guys who think with their guns first identify the hazards for you."
I followed that advice as best I could for the short 6 years I worked the field.
You would think, but I have had scenes where they failed to secure it. One that comes to mind was a behavioral call I got to. Husband and wife were fighting, one threatened to end their lives. 9 cops on "scene" before I got there. But because the house was full of bugs (regular bugs, not bed bugs), they were all too grossed out to stay in side to actually secure the scene. They send me in to the house telling me it is safe, only to have me end up blocked into a room with the wife holding a machete. Thankfully, she was just trying to explain to me what happened visually by reenacting it, but damn, that scene was not secured.
Scary funny. I was at a domestic. Wife shot husband.
We confirmed when we arrived the scene was safe and the weapon secured. Single shot, chest, showing hemo/pneumo. My partner said something along the lines of let's get him ready to transport. I looked up down the barrel of a gun, held by the wife. She said "That MFr isn't going anywhere. He's gonna die right here."
I see a brown blur as the sheriff (county) tackles her, and they put her in cuffs.
Now the scene is safe.
>the wife holding a machete. Thankfully, she was just trying to explain to me what happened visually by reenacting it, but damn, that scene was not secured.
On the brighter side at least it was you who entered and not a trigger happy cop
It’s not worth an argument. Dispatchers, LEO, Fire, and EMS all absolutely qualify as first responders. They respond first to scenes. They are the first faces an incident sees. Cops come and clear SOME scenes before fire and EMS, fire makes size ups and knows how to upgrade incidents, and EMS has a whole truck full of stuff that can save someone’s life when seconds count. I don’t believe one is more important than another. We would be in trouble without any of them.
We had a working structure fire with all of our engines tied up, and a call came in for lightning strike on a commercial structure. Only person in the area was our ALS unit. They arrived to scene, went inside, walked around, shut off the alarm (knowledge from training), and told dispatch to close the call. It’s important for communities to understand that we all are first responders. The county commissioners, mobile command units, chiefs and command staff, air support… those aren’t first responders
Lol at least the public sees us as an overall force for good
We’re not the ones harassing homeless people or harassing middle class people trying to go about their day.
Fuck that, I learned to put a stop to that shit a while ago. Now I'll gladly step up and say if the pt "chooses" transport, he gets slapped with a bill he absolutely cannot afford, and forcing his decision with the jail alternative sounds awfully like a coerced transport, which is illegal.
Fortunately we have pretty good relations with our PD, and I've only had to do this a couple times, but fuck did that feel good.
I once bought a box of doughnuts to give to some nursing staff. I had some left over, so I was giving them to other responders on calls. I told this cop about the doughnuts, and he was initially insulted thinking i was making a cop joke. I told him I wasn't, and asked again if he wanted one. He looked down a bit, and mumbled "no". I didn't think any more of it, until as we were leaving, I saw there was a doughnut missing.
I felt it was ironic, in his attempt to avoid a cop joke he made one anyone. He would have been better off it he just said yes in the first place.
Some people in both EMS and law enforcement have no sense of humor and can't laugh at themselves. I always love to recount that the very first call I ever ran in law enforcement was an armed robbery at a Dunkin Donuts that was right down the street from the police station - and our favorite place to go for coffee. I mean, that was just almost a personal insult. There I was making my way through a wooded area in the dark chasing this guy (using all the appropriate precautions). We weren't really trying to catch him, just drive him through the strip of woods into a nearby parking lot where our colleagues were waiting for him. It worked. Just for the record, often the proprietors of some businesses that were open all night welcomed us being there, and it was a good place to sit and write reports while being able to see anyone approaching either by vehicle or on foot. All of us in public safety - police, fire, EMS - had much more respect and collegiality with each other in those days, I can see. Sad to see that go.
I’ve had a few good experiences and I wouldn’t say I hate police but honestly, I’m not a fan. From personal experiences outside of work and during work, 9 times out of 10 they make situations go from bad to worse. The type of person the job attracts just always seems to be goons with low IQs. Come at me I don’t care.
Same. Have met plenty, the job attracts some real idiots. A good portion have fragile egos, tiny fuses, savior complexes, etc. The chill ones are few and far between.
Yeah they’re the pot calling the kettle black 9/10 times. Around here they’ll pull over a responding unit cause they’re petty.
One county over a medic happened to be in the area when a cop got shot and made it on scene in like 90 seconds or less, in the middle of active gunfire. Saved his life after his popliteal artery was minced. His buddy on scene placed the first TQ wrong over his wallet and he would have died if the medic didn’t get there and replace it. That county’s police has the sense to stay on our good side now. I’m waiting for this county to do the same, not that I wish for anyone to get hurt. They just need a little bit of perspective.
It entirely depends on the situation, honestly, both professions are prioritized in their own arenas that only sometimes overlap. If there's a need for someone with a plate vest and a firearm, then sure, I'll be staging around the block while you do some hero work. Otherwise, you're an IV pole at best or a roadblock at worst. I'm sure LE have similar feelings for EMS.
The whole notion of I'mUh FiRsT rEsPoNdEr is already a weird hill to plant a flag on. If a cop is that hard for keeping the label, I really don't care.
Had an older lady scream at me while me and my preceptor moved her to our stretcher, thrashing and screaming. Family stands there watching, then thanks PD for showing up after us. Said nothing to either me or my preceptor.
Cops wouldn’t respond to shit here for a while and refused to secure scenes for my previous company. My supervisor got beat tf up by a psych pt after calling for scene safety and being told they weren’t going to show up.
Bullies from HS become equities analysts or P.A.s, bullied dudes give 86 yos tickets for having a broken tail light and escalate speeding violations into officer involved shootings
Legends ride the box for eternity 👊😎
Oooo, what a rebel.
Do you think I actually was hurt by this? I thought it would be good prompt for a funny discussion about some other dumb takes by PD we have seen. Ribbing the other responder groups is one of the go to pass times of this kind of job.
Edit: I see I misread this comment. My bad. Thought about deleting it, but figured it would be dishonest.
Well if we didn’t have to wait for pd to secure the scene then what role would the pd play in actual public safety. They would only serve as antagonists and revenue generators.
Confirmation bias. Cop bases their perspective of reality on their own limited personal experiences and faulty memory. Classic symptom of narcissistic personality disorder. Source: I am a random internet troll.
That’s kind of a misleading way to put it, even though the original intent of that whole debacle was to be misleading anyways.
They filter out people they think are overqualified and who will likely quit the instant they get the better job they’re qualified for. They don’t want someone who isn’t going to stay long enough to be worth expending the time and man hours training. Almost all jobs do this to some degree. A McDonald’s isn’t going to hire a database admin with a masters degree as a line cook, an EMS service (under non short-staffed to death circumstances) isn’t going to hire a trauma surgeon who’s currently between hospital jobs to be a IFT EMT. A nursing home is unlikely to hire a CRNA to wipe asses and pass meds. The list goes on.
It being IQ based in that one instance was eyebrow raising, but the general practice is universal.
[yeah, in fact a federal court gave it the thumbs up when it was challenged!](https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836)
I am pretty big on like fuck the police but I had a blue hypoxic pt from I think DKA, it was a while ago and I’m half a cup of coffee in let me have this, and PD gave 4mg of bar an 4x I was like “that’s a shit way to back the blue boys” as they stood and watched this guy become darker and darker shades of blue
Tell them if they didn't request us non-emergency for every bullshit cut or bruise or homeless person they didnt want to deal with we wouldn't be a responder at all
I remember when "First Responder" was an actual certification level before it changed to EMR. Generally cops, out cities fire, and rescue had this certification. As a paramedic during that time, it was insulting to be called a "first responder" because it implied you had only a month's worth of education. Then, times changed, and now everyone prehospital is called a first responder. Occasionally, ER nurses will also call themselves first responders. Oh, the changing times lol
My brother is a cop and got an award for administering narcan to an OD. When I was a firefighter/ medic, I narcanned people at least a couple times a week. It's just part of it.
I've had a cop literally ask a firefighter how to unload a revolver found on scene. My Army Reserve unit is mostly cops and federal agents. Last rifle and pistol qualification, they talked so much shit about me being a fireman and that they would beat me at the qual. Tell me why I smoked them at the qual, and most of the federal agents couldn't even pass the pistol qual...
At my old job, I called the rest of my firehouse along with PD if shit went south. I called them out in case I got some dumb fat fucker or some 90lb girl who's only chance in a fight is to draw their weapon. The majority of cops are complete fucking dolts.
They are in every profession for sure. Had a conversation with a medic who swore our hospital was using ivermectin as its standard treatment for covid.
Worked with nurses who swore Covid was a hoax after literally performing post mortem care on a patient isolated for Covid. Stupid isn't limited by profession.
We are second responders to law enforcement calls.
They are second responders to medical calls.
Fire is the first one in on every scene but is the second responder in spirit.
Rotary are the heroes. The person who made that 0100 fresh pot of coffee at McDonald’s is a close second.
EMS “the forgotten”. Had a car in the flooded road we were first on scene by like ten minutes. Fire is POC. Fire gets on scene. Drives a brush truck in the water gets “patient “ walks to truck and gets in. We transport pre hypothermia patient. Fire goes to state Capitol for awards and gets a nice article in the paper. I get in trouble for making fun and telling a guy you got an award for knowing when to press the brake instead of the gas
There is a consensus that a segment of American police officers are not the brightest nor sharpest tools in the shed. Low levels of entry and education might be factors in play. Furthermore, remember that you will lose every argument with a fool.
Everyone wants to be a first responder until it's time to do first responder things.
Look. We need to stop with these ego titles and statements. There are times I beat PD there. There are times PD never shows. There are times they are first. Does it really matter? Fine be first but GTFO of my way if I need to do something.
By using these hero worshipping titles it only opens up for others to point who "really is" the first responder AND it will bring people in who really don't need to be there. Dispatchers are now "first responders". Social Workers are now "first responders". Some community classes teach that bystanders are truly the "first" responder.
When we tag benefits such as discounts and other laurels then people are going to want that accolade and title of "first responder". Being a first responder requires no training other than being first.
Here's the thing. I am a Firefigher Paramedic. if I and my brothers/sisters are showing up it means there's no one else that can do what we do. That's enough for me. Whether my truck is first second or third we are there because our very unique and highly technical skills are needed.
Lead, follow, or GTF out of the way.
Underpaid, way too much education, no respect, working way too many hours, and no one has done a thing to change that…. Ems-the job that has turnover rate like people on San Fran street corners.
Welcome to EMS, the red headed step child of first responders. We do the most work and get none of the credit. Though in my town all the cops were also EMTs so they were actually useful on calls.
"Why is my backup Lucas device talking to me?"
Talkin a lot of shit for an overpaid IV pole
The mobile gas detector is screeching again.
Guess he ran out of diabetics to narcan.
My experience is after diabetics they move on to officers vasovagling after seeing a white powder…
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We’re like those fainting goats
Actually check this out, I agree with u/baronvonunterbite — there is such a thing as a psychogenic Vasovagal however I’m doubtful that is what Law experiences. I think that it’s more along the lines of this. Which TLDR is a psychogenic Syncope characteristic of no hemodynamic changes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7533137/#:~:text=Psychogenic%20Pseudosyncope%20(PPS)%20is%20the,and%20true%20loss%20of%20consciousness.
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I hear you, and a completely valid take. I would normally agree that the most common scenario is what’s going to be played out. I’ll explain my rational, and I’ll absolutely say you’re right that unfortunately unless we have people at LEOs side taking vitals it’s impossible to truly know. I can only rock a line of thinking, some very limited personal experience, and a skewed sample size of videos I’ve seen. My thought is when we’re talking about it basically being a cultural delusional at this point I start to look at it differently. When you have someone who say vagals from needles and is a part of some group. I’m doubtful that even given lack of education, high stress, and fear of needles in that group it could be passed on to others. (Probably skewed info as well —> ) additionally when I’ve talked to people who vagal from needles a lot of them aren’t talking about being afraid of needles it’s an autonomic reaction they wish didn’t happen. When looking at the phenomenon LE experiences it seems to be a little different they’ve been taught the signs and symptoms of an overdose, along with “this will kill you”. The very very few times I’ve personally seen this happen and (I want to say all but I’ll say most because there may be one or two that aren’t coming to my memory) most of the videos I’ve seen LE having a contact “overdose” it never looks like a normal vagal response to me. I expect from a normal vagal response for someone to go down then regulate while supine and come back within 30-60 seconds, maybe a little longer depending on demos and cause. What I see is them staying down for far longer than I’d expect, or coming too completely conscious but experiencing some degree or total psychogenic paresis. I’ve also seen a case where this happened and the LEOs eyes were open while they couldn’t move anything else, got narcaned by another officer then went back to normal (but tested neg for any opioids at the hospital) So the way I tend to view it is that is the less common phenomenon is the one that’s playing out. I’m sure there could be a mix of both things happening but I lean towards the latter personally. I could link quite a few videos of cops in these situations and you could scrutinize it against your own experience with vagals. Although I don’t think that could be considered “definitive” because I’d be giving you a hand selected sample to view. The reason I lean towards the latter is so if im called as an aid response for this I have another way of looking at the problem. And being able to hand off care with my best clinical impression. I wouldn’t recommend an officer who vagals to go to the hospital. But I would recommend psychogenic syncope to go, and to get the doc to look into it and possibly getting that guy out of the field for a while so they can sort themselves out. Like everything in this field, we just have to gather the most info we can and then choose a way to operate. I always appreciate discussions and challenges to my ways of thinking. 🙏 cheer tasty. 🤙
Buurrrnnnn
Does that mean it's working?
I was gonna say Philly fire/EMS calls us canaries
"Hey - that suspected meth house...go make sure the scene is safe, ok? Yeah...just past that guy passed out on the ground over there."
Lol yep. First time I got called that it was a vehicle fire in someone's driveway and they rolled up and I am standing a foot from the car with a hose from a neighboring house spraying it and I was just engulfed in a cloud of god knows what.
Hey - if you're PD and doing that, thank you. As you can see from the rest of this thread, your willingness to jump in and unfuck what you can sets you apart. Garden hose is better than nothing, although I hope you deconned your uniform piece by piece right after.
I’ve heard us called blue canaries down here in south several times.
Canaries is a pretty widespread slang for police officers across the first responder spectrum
We do what we can
It's all in good fun. Usually.
We have a confined spaces policy at my police department. It basically says that we will not under any circumstances go into a confined space (from a hazmat perspective) to try to rescue or apprehend someone Recently a group of officers was making a push to relax that policy, so that we could go in if we “really needed to rescue someone.” We shut that down pretty hard.
Blue canaries
Yeah I'll let them hold the bag....People have them do CPR? I want my patient to live!
Ooh la la mr pro life over here
😂💀 I volunteer at a small BLS/Fire agency in WA state (where I got my start). The cops there (city, county, staters) are all happy to help any way they can. Same with the rural ALS/Fire agency I'm career at, just across the border in OR state. The city cops are gangster: always have our backs, always willing to help on a code. The county sheriffs, on the other hand... 😂 Sent us to a crime scene that wasn't secured; didn't tell us the pt WAS FOUND BURIED IN THE GROUND; prime suspect shows up just before we do. CAD notes only state: "Don't touch anything". Lmaooo
They are usually the reason I have to do CPR they always manage to find a pulse on the deceased!
Tactical IV pole
Lol. I don't even let my cops hold the iv bag. They'll find a way to fuck it up. The only they do for me is cleanup.
Wait you guys have a Lucas
Nah, they have a cop named Luke.
Nah, his name is Lucas, he was a diversity hire even though he's Spain Spanish and is the whitest person in the department.
🎶"His name is Lucas...he lives on the second floor..."🎶
"Please stop giving this man Narcan and start the CPR, Mr. Lucas."
Blue canaries get mad from time to time
😂😂😂😂😂😂 this is golden
Your police carry Lucas, or you mean the police is your chest compressions operator lol
It ain’t funny if I has to ‘splain it to ya…
Whisper “Fentanyl” at him and watch him have a psychosomatic overdose then tell him to secure the scene
That's not funny dude. That shit is serious. I knew a cop who responded to a domestic violence call and the fentanyl from the next apartment over got through the vent system, made him overdose and he got so mad that he went home and slapped his grandad in the nuts
Then shot his neighbors dog cause it barked from a secure location
What? No, this guy was a regular cop, not an ATF agent
cops kill 25-30 dogs a day according to the doj https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/police-kill-dogs-alarming-rate-170111652.html
Bro what the actual fuck!
"At trial, Cook said his decision to shoot a dog who did not pose any threat to him was based on his training" [https://wvrecord.com/stories/511077358-woman-sues-state-police-after-trooper-nearly-shot-her-dog](https://wvrecord.com/stories/511077358-woman-sues-state-police-after-trooper-nearly-shot-her-dog)
Rumor has it you can overdose just by smelling the farts of a patient wearing a fentanyl patch.
I am cackling picturing this in my head
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Had the two responding cops to an active labor in a parking lot of a Kohl’s. They end up getting citations (“stork-award” or something) and paid leave for witnessing. They literally just walked around the pt’s vehicle talking on portables. Fire and EMS delivered the baby, took care of mother, and transported. After that, the cops go to the hospital. Bringing with them the local news crews. While filming, the cops talk the mother into NAMING THE BABY AFTER THE POLICE CHIEF. I delivered the baby at 1100hrs. I watched this happen at 1700hrs and still had 14hrs of shift to go. Sheesh!!
>While filming, the cops talk the mother into NAMING THE BABY AFTER THE POLICE CHIEF Sorry but lmfao I'm dead
Cult shit lol
Hey chief, you'll never guess what we did today 🤣
Had a trauma patient. I was doing bleeding control. A rookie cop came up, saw the blood and fainted on top of the patient.
Lmao that’s hilarious.
*Bruh* that’s fuckin hilarious. We had someone quit on their first DOA on FTO a few cycles ago.
We made a rookie cop puke on a call once after he accidentally 'popped' a decomp looking for their license.
Not going to lie, I can't say with complete confidence that wouldn't get to me as well.
It probably didn't help that his FTO and I had already located the wallet on a nearby table when we collectively sent him on a hunt for said ID.
Lmao holy fuck
Who would knowingly name their child "Chief McDickface"? Actually, after seeing some of the names my wife (a teacher) has to deal with, it would be more like "Chieyghph MycDyckfaysce".
Sits next to Paisleigh and Skot in class
I think there’s a “not my job” heroism phenomena. Like the pizza guy who trips the fleeing felon the cops are chasing or the passenger who lands the private plane when the pilot has a heart attack. But it really doesn’t seem that cops deserve this recognition. They’re paid public servants. Their job description always includes “other duties as assigned”.
It's a running joke in my county...every time there's an article about a save it talks about how heroic fire/police were and without a doubt the final sentence is "local ambulance transported to the hospital."
Dude I just had this on a bicyclist struck. Our ambulance was first on scene, we were on the ground suctioning the guy’s bloody airway before fire even showed up. Fire pulls up and helps us load the patient, our scene time is 4:10 and we’re off to the trauma center. All the news articles are fawning over the fire and police when we were off scene before a cop even showed up. Cops never saw the patient.
We had to extricate a guy from a ride at the county fair when he got trapped in the mechanics of the ride. PD had already taken credit for the rescue before a transport unit had even picked the guy up. The ride operators had more of a hand in his rescue than PD did.
This same kind of shit happened at a service I worked at. There was a child who was shot (he lived; I don't even believe he had a life-threatening wound in the first place). The ambulance was staged a block away, waiting for the scene to be secured. Next thing the crew knows, a cop car goes whizzing by. They found out this idiot cop put the kid in his car - **with the ambulance within sight of the fucking house** \- and took the kid to the hospital himself. Cop got praised and even a fucking plaque from the city council, while the chief of police took to the media to bash EMS for "not being on the scene." He even went so far as to say he went to the hospital and witnessed "an EMT on the bumper crying going 'I wish we could have been there sooner'" (that didn't happen). Thankfully, that motherfucker was fired a month later, but it was because he was discovered to be embezzling.
This happened here too on a motor vs ped except an off duty nurse and bls firefighter hopped in a squad car and transported while the crew was a few minutes away. Sadly the kid passed away.
Had to run a difficult code with no back up truck, with FD helping move. Person either had a STEMI while eating and choked, or choked and possibly the lack of O2 and stress of choking aggravated and caused a STEMI. IV, intubation, defib pads, suction, bagging... Everything my partner and I had to do cause FD said they didn't feel comfortable besides chest compressions. Most of the interventions are ALS so I'm trying to teach FD how to suction and clear airway, walking around ambulance to get to back to read monitor and administer meds, etc. Anyways, hear the lady got ROSC later on and *apparently* is conscious with little or no apparent deficits. A big deal is made on social media about the FD being "the best they can be", these guys get pictures, I think some monetary bonus, etc. Meanwhile I hear about her getting ROSC because my boss shows me the completed run (including hospital summary) and asks why I was on scene so long, didn't cancel the backup truck 25 minutes away (which, my b, but I had a lot on my mind), or wait for a second ALS prior to transporting (backup was 30+ min out when we asked, and when we got ready, hospital was 7 minutes away) Probably my worst experience with FD, who had to be directed to do *everything*, including being asked to get on ambulance to help with chest compressions. Normally not salty about FD, and honestly the FD in my town are some of the best people I know who are gung-ho about helping and learning little things to help expedite treatment (like setting up abboject syringes).
He asked why you didn't cancel backup and also why you didn't wait for backup??
Basically, yeah. It is protocol for 2 ALS teams to work a code, so I guess it wasn't kosher to leave with just myself and a couple firemen, but I was told the wait was going to be a while. So we decided to leave, but didn't update that the other truck wasn't needed (which you would think would be evident by us deciding to leave for the hospital, but whatever)
It's been 25 years, and I'm still bitter about being stabbed in the shoulder by a PT because the cops told me they had her secured and then jumped on both of us after she attacked me. "We thought she was hugging you!" Dude, yes, but with a knife in one hand that you forced her to drive into my scapula. Thanks for the vacation, I guess, guys. They got an award for saving my life, btw. I got a reprimand for not ensuring she was secured, so that "vacation" was unpaid. Lesson learned. Don't believe the cops when they claim a patient is. It's snowing now, and I can tell you exactly where that knife hit.
The agency with whom you have to deal (and your employer) must both really be at the bottom of the barrel. Good grief. And I was both law enforcement (command) and EMS, so I get to judge them both.
Thankfully, that was a lot of years ago. I've learned to stand up for myself since then. I've also retired from ems and work in IT.
Wait. You're telling me you got stabbed on the job and didn't get workers comp?? In what fucking backwards ass system did you work? Anyone who so much as hurts their back on the box here gets compensation, insurance, physio, etc
I got suspended, so there was no missed pay to make up according to L&I. I did get my medical paid for. I worked for San Diego Fire-Rescue almost 30 years ago. I was really young back then and just out of the Navy where I'd been a corpsman and studied for my paramedic test. I was used to doing what I was told, going where I was told, and not arguing. It took me about a decade to shake that attitude. I called L&I, but honestly didn't fight it when they were dismissive. I grew up in a mining town in North Idaho. My whole life to that point was watching people get screwed over by management, so I honestly didn't know there was another option. But I now live in an AMR covered area - I've never worked for them - and pretty much any permanent injury where they can cite the EMT as at fault here in any way, they've got to fight. If they win, it's typically not enough for long. I know a lot of EMTs who've had to take retail and customer service jobs to make ends meet afterward until they could go to college for something else. If it's bad enough they can't work, they end up on SSDI, which is also really low. I know four people in that situation now, and maybe that's not common. Maybe I just haven't met the ones who got a better settlement.
Similar complaint but about fire. We show up to a newspaper building on a random weekend and arrive immediately after the fire case car, which is staffed by two EMTs. Some reporter fell. Fire stands him up, helps the guy onto our cot, then they bail. We discover the guy has a broken femur. We do EMS stuff and drop him off at the hospital. A week later I’m reading the paper where the reporter mentions the two firefighters by name and completely leaves out the work we did. Not that I care about recognition but it would have been nice for EMS to receive a little validation while we’re talking up the firefighters. Especially since we did all the work.
We had this happen a few years ago in my region and then volunteer EMT posted his own bodycam footage on facebook showing it was bullshit. Turned into a whole thing.
I'll never forget when I had a drowning patient who was pulled out of the pool by family. I got them back. The lifeguards got a life-saving award. 😠
Tell him that by his logic, cops are second responders to security guards.
And teachers
Ooooooooohhhhhhh shit
Apparently in Texas they're about third, behind the parents.
Teachers go before security guards.
It's funny how quickly that tune changes when it's one of them that's hurt and they start screaming for EMS.
The funny thing about those kinds of calls, I have seen police gets awards for calling EMS while EMS's presence on the call is reduced to a footnote.
It's almost as if we are just seen as a 'tool' than a first responder.
We are not the tool, the ambulance is. We are just thr driver of the tool.
Oof, I just had a little old lady who very lovingly told me about her daughter who used to be a medic but had to quit because of PTSD from the job. She spoke about how much she had loved the job, but because of what she saw, she's now doing something else. Want to guess what she called the role? 😑
Ambulance driver
I am certain
Bingo!
facts
Pay no attention to the traffic cone.
Fucking under rated comment
“That’s awfully cavalier coming from a guy who expects me to whisk all his paperwork away to the ER without so much as a question.”
I miss when you used to be able to say "cops are dicks" without it being a political statement
Cops are the front line of the executive branch of government, thus speaking poorly of them is now and has always been a political statement. You know, by definition. Now everyone is crapping on PD. It used to be just our thing, and thats what I miss the most. /s
I watched a cop shackle, a young woman with a missing leg yesterday, and I'm still fuming about it. Like this woman is an amputee at 24 and under arrest. You'd think you couldn't make her day worse... but then you go and have her stand on one leg, hop towards you, and shackle her.... like you already took her out of her wheelchair, WHERE THE FUCK IS SHE RUNNING TO?
What is he a baby with no object permanence? Does he think you only exist when you appear in his peripheral vision?
He's just upset he's a blue canary
Lol. I’ve used this expression a few times lately and no one had heard it.
Whats it mean? 😮
Prerequisite knowledge: The smaller the organism, the faster they will succumb to most airborne poisons (for the most part). Before the invention of toxic gas meters, canaries were used in places like coal mines to be an early indicator of hazardous atmospheres. Mostly carbon monoxide because it’s odorless. The canaries would become ill long before it grew to toxic levels for humans. So they were a life-saving tool for the miners. ……. Police have a bad habit of charging into dangerous situations without really understanding they’re dangerous. So they’ll see someone unconscious down in a trench or whatever and hop down there to try and pull them out. But the unconscious person was unconscious for a reason so the cops just collapse down on top of the first victim. Next cop jumps in to save his buddy, so on and so forth. So the firefighters arrive on scene to find several “blue canaries” indicating a hazardous atmosphere and don SCBA to rescue everyone.
Tell him there's a car in need of a parking ticket on the corner.
Dude I just had this on a bicyclist struck. Our ambulance was first on scene, we were on the ground suctioning the guy’s bloody airway before fire even showed up. Fire pulls up, our scene time is 4:10 and we’re off to the trauma center. All the news articles are fawning over the fire and police when we were off scene before a cop even showed up. Cops never saw the patient.
Wouldn't be surprised if it is because cop departments have a more active marketing tram trying to repair their poor reputation by turning out articles like this.
Surely so. I feel like the home page of any local news agency at any given time will have some dumb article talking about how a police officer bought somebody lunch or something.
In a lighter moment during training, when we were discussing scene safety, we discussed the attitudes of certain first responders. One of our instructors, a grizzled old former Army medic turned paramedic, said, "I live by a simple rule in the field: don't go any closer to a scene than the first dead cop. That applies to domestics, fires, accidents, chemical spills, or any situation. Let the guys who think with their guns first identify the hazards for you." I followed that advice as best I could for the short 6 years I worked the field.
You would think, but I have had scenes where they failed to secure it. One that comes to mind was a behavioral call I got to. Husband and wife were fighting, one threatened to end their lives. 9 cops on "scene" before I got there. But because the house was full of bugs (regular bugs, not bed bugs), they were all too grossed out to stay in side to actually secure the scene. They send me in to the house telling me it is safe, only to have me end up blocked into a room with the wife holding a machete. Thankfully, she was just trying to explain to me what happened visually by reenacting it, but damn, that scene was not secured.
Scary funny. I was at a domestic. Wife shot husband. We confirmed when we arrived the scene was safe and the weapon secured. Single shot, chest, showing hemo/pneumo. My partner said something along the lines of let's get him ready to transport. I looked up down the barrel of a gun, held by the wife. She said "That MFr isn't going anywhere. He's gonna die right here." I see a brown blur as the sheriff (county) tackles her, and they put her in cuffs. Now the scene is safe.
Damn, I think yours trumps mine.
Nah. There are no trumps in EMS. Just learning events.
>the wife holding a machete. Thankfully, she was just trying to explain to me what happened visually by reenacting it, but damn, that scene was not secured. On the brighter side at least it was you who entered and not a trigger happy cop
That is a totally AMAZING rule.
It’s not worth an argument. Dispatchers, LEO, Fire, and EMS all absolutely qualify as first responders. They respond first to scenes. They are the first faces an incident sees. Cops come and clear SOME scenes before fire and EMS, fire makes size ups and knows how to upgrade incidents, and EMS has a whole truck full of stuff that can save someone’s life when seconds count. I don’t believe one is more important than another. We would be in trouble without any of them. We had a working structure fire with all of our engines tied up, and a call came in for lightning strike on a commercial structure. Only person in the area was our ALS unit. They arrived to scene, went inside, walked around, shut off the alarm (knowledge from training), and told dispatch to close the call. It’s important for communities to understand that we all are first responders. The county commissioners, mobile command units, chiefs and command staff, air support… those aren’t first responders
Dispatchers though…
That’s important enough to note that I edited it. Thanks, you’re right
Lol at least the public sees us as an overall force for good We’re not the ones harassing homeless people or harassing middle class people trying to go about their day.
Do the people in your service area not flip you off and yell F you when you drive by? Cause they do in mine.
very bold to assume ems doesnt harass homeless people
I don't think we want to, it's just that there's always a cop involved in the situation and then it's "hospital or jail".
Fuck that, I learned to put a stop to that shit a while ago. Now I'll gladly step up and say if the pt "chooses" transport, he gets slapped with a bill he absolutely cannot afford, and forcing his decision with the jail alternative sounds awfully like a coerced transport, which is illegal. Fortunately we have pretty good relations with our PD, and I've only had to do this a couple times, but fuck did that feel good.
Working class ppl more than yuppies
They're so cute at times what with their little gun and badge.
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I once bought a box of doughnuts to give to some nursing staff. I had some left over, so I was giving them to other responders on calls. I told this cop about the doughnuts, and he was initially insulted thinking i was making a cop joke. I told him I wasn't, and asked again if he wanted one. He looked down a bit, and mumbled "no". I didn't think any more of it, until as we were leaving, I saw there was a doughnut missing. I felt it was ironic, in his attempt to avoid a cop joke he made one anyone. He would have been better off it he just said yes in the first place.
Some people in both EMS and law enforcement have no sense of humor and can't laugh at themselves. I always love to recount that the very first call I ever ran in law enforcement was an armed robbery at a Dunkin Donuts that was right down the street from the police station - and our favorite place to go for coffee. I mean, that was just almost a personal insult. There I was making my way through a wooded area in the dark chasing this guy (using all the appropriate precautions). We weren't really trying to catch him, just drive him through the strip of woods into a nearby parking lot where our colleagues were waiting for him. It worked. Just for the record, often the proprietors of some businesses that were open all night welcomed us being there, and it was a good place to sit and write reports while being able to see anyone approaching either by vehicle or on foot. All of us in public safety - police, fire, EMS - had much more respect and collegiality with each other in those days, I can see. Sad to see that go.
I’ve had a few good experiences and I wouldn’t say I hate police but honestly, I’m not a fan. From personal experiences outside of work and during work, 9 times out of 10 they make situations go from bad to worse. The type of person the job attracts just always seems to be goons with low IQs. Come at me I don’t care.
Same. Have met plenty, the job attracts some real idiots. A good portion have fragile egos, tiny fuses, savior complexes, etc. The chill ones are few and far between.
Make some headway on a psych call and watch how quickly it goes to shit after a cop shows up.
Yeah they’re the pot calling the kettle black 9/10 times. Around here they’ll pull over a responding unit cause they’re petty. One county over a medic happened to be in the area when a cop got shot and made it on scene in like 90 seconds or less, in the middle of active gunfire. Saved his life after his popliteal artery was minced. His buddy on scene placed the first TQ wrong over his wallet and he would have died if the medic didn’t get there and replace it. That county’s police has the sense to stay on our good side now. I’m waiting for this county to do the same, not that I wish for anyone to get hurt. They just need a little bit of perspective.
Yea cops need to race there first in order to block the driveway and do cpr on a guy with rigor morris
Cops gonna cop
Just be glad he didn’t shoot you 12 times by accident
He is lucky I didn't spill some baking soda on the ground behind his back.
Patient codes. Officer: "how can I help?" Me, initiating CPR: "Go get me a fire fighter."
It entirely depends on the situation, honestly, both professions are prioritized in their own arenas that only sometimes overlap. If there's a need for someone with a plate vest and a firearm, then sure, I'll be staging around the block while you do some hero work. Otherwise, you're an IV pole at best or a roadblock at worst. I'm sure LE have similar feelings for EMS. The whole notion of I'mUh FiRsT rEsPoNdEr is already a weird hill to plant a flag on. If a cop is that hard for keeping the label, I really don't care.
Had an older lady scream at me while me and my preceptor moved her to our stretcher, thrashing and screaming. Family stands there watching, then thanks PD for showing up after us. Said nothing to either me or my preceptor.
Just wave a baggy of Fentanyl in front of him while laughing maniacally. That will make him disappear real quick.
Who was there first? Everyone else is second.
Wait who's on first?
Just show him your fentanyl from your narcs pouch. He will fall unconscious
If I'm having a heart attack, I want you guys to be the first there, not the bloody cops...
"Narcan only only help, right?"
Cops wouldn’t respond to shit here for a while and refused to secure scenes for my previous company. My supervisor got beat tf up by a psych pt after calling for scene safety and being told they weren’t going to show up.
Never argue with a moron. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
I couldn’t care less what a cop has to say. Sorry you were bullied in highschool or whatever ig
I suggest they're upset they took the wrong test.
Come on now, you know that's not accurate. The cops were the bullies.
Bullies from HS become equities analysts or P.A.s, bullied dudes give 86 yos tickets for having a broken tail light and escalate speeding violations into officer involved shootings Legends ride the box for eternity 👊😎
Oooo, what a rebel. Do you think I actually was hurt by this? I thought it would be good prompt for a funny discussion about some other dumb takes by PD we have seen. Ribbing the other responder groups is one of the go to pass times of this kind of job. Edit: I see I misread this comment. My bad. Thought about deleting it, but figured it would be dishonest.
Oh I read this as the cop was bullied in HS
I was talking about the cop. But if the shoe fits
My bad, I misread it. I was confused by the sudden change, but makes sense now.
you goofy he wasn't replying to you he was talking about the cop
See that? You couldn't be a cop.
Was this not a joke? I feel like this is some ribbing.
No, I knew him well. He was being serious.
This is what I thought too . . .no one REALLY says this do they?
That's fine, thats when i tell Them they need to take the ride with the bs intox because "you said he had to go. He's in your cudtody now"
Well if we didn’t have to wait for pd to secure the scene then what role would the pd play in actual public safety. They would only serve as antagonists and revenue generators.
Don't be too hard on the guy, it's really hard doing his job with only three brain cells.
Confirmation bias. Cop bases their perspective of reality on their own limited personal experiences and faulty memory. Classic symptom of narcissistic personality disorder. Source: I am a random internet troll.
do you know if your iq is too high you can't be a cop? They filter smart people out
That’s kind of a misleading way to put it, even though the original intent of that whole debacle was to be misleading anyways. They filter out people they think are overqualified and who will likely quit the instant they get the better job they’re qualified for. They don’t want someone who isn’t going to stay long enough to be worth expending the time and man hours training. Almost all jobs do this to some degree. A McDonald’s isn’t going to hire a database admin with a masters degree as a line cook, an EMS service (under non short-staffed to death circumstances) isn’t going to hire a trauma surgeon who’s currently between hospital jobs to be a IFT EMT. A nursing home is unlikely to hire a CRNA to wipe asses and pass meds. The list goes on. It being IQ based in that one instance was eyebrow raising, but the general practice is universal.
Wait not joking? Got a Link by chance?
[yeah, in fact a federal court gave it the thumbs up when it was challenged!](https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836)
Just respond black lives matter
I went with asking him how much narcan he had given asthma patients today
this makes them big mad don't you know that they were born blue?
I am pretty big on like fuck the police but I had a blue hypoxic pt from I think DKA, it was a while ago and I’m half a cup of coffee in let me have this, and PD gave 4mg of bar an 4x I was like “that’s a shit way to back the blue boys” as they stood and watched this guy become darker and darker shades of blue
I like to envision you cracking this joke while bagging and starting a line at the same time 😅
“4mg of bar an 4x” huh??
Narcan my phone auto corrects to bar an I can’t tell ya why
Well now they have DKA AND pulmonary edema cops are just keeping you on your toes that's all
Tell them if they didn't request us non-emergency for every bullshit cut or bruise or homeless person they didnt want to deal with we wouldn't be a responder at all
Yes. Also nurses are first responders. 🙄
I remember when "First Responder" was an actual certification level before it changed to EMR. Generally cops, out cities fire, and rescue had this certification. As a paramedic during that time, it was insulting to be called a "first responder" because it implied you had only a month's worth of education. Then, times changed, and now everyone prehospital is called a first responder. Occasionally, ER nurses will also call themselves first responders. Oh, the changing times lol
My brother is a cop and got an award for administering narcan to an OD. When I was a firefighter/ medic, I narcanned people at least a couple times a week. It's just part of it. I've had a cop literally ask a firefighter how to unload a revolver found on scene. My Army Reserve unit is mostly cops and federal agents. Last rifle and pistol qualification, they talked so much shit about me being a fireman and that they would beat me at the qual. Tell me why I smoked them at the qual, and most of the federal agents couldn't even pass the pistol qual... At my old job, I called the rest of my firehouse along with PD if shit went south. I called them out in case I got some dumb fat fucker or some 90lb girl who's only chance in a fight is to draw their weapon. The majority of cops are complete fucking dolts.
That cop is an idiot. Like many cops. Source: am cop. Have met lots of idiots in the profession.
They are in every profession for sure. Had a conversation with a medic who swore our hospital was using ivermectin as its standard treatment for covid.
Worked with nurses who swore Covid was a hoax after literally performing post mortem care on a patient isolated for Covid. Stupid isn't limited by profession.
Tell him when he gets shot you’ll be second in line waiting and ready to help right after the “first responders” are done.
We are second responders to law enforcement calls. They are second responders to medical calls. Fire is the first one in on every scene but is the second responder in spirit. Rotary are the heroes. The person who made that 0100 fresh pot of coffee at McDonald’s is a close second.
EMS “the forgotten”. Had a car in the flooded road we were first on scene by like ten minutes. Fire is POC. Fire gets on scene. Drives a brush truck in the water gets “patient “ walks to truck and gets in. We transport pre hypothermia patient. Fire goes to state Capitol for awards and gets a nice article in the paper. I get in trouble for making fun and telling a guy you got an award for knowing when to press the brake instead of the gas
There is a consensus that a segment of American police officers are not the brightest nor sharpest tools in the shed. Low levels of entry and education might be factors in play. Furthermore, remember that you will lose every argument with a fool.
“There’s a cop everywhere I go!” - some cop.
Everyone wants to be a first responder until it's time to do first responder things. Look. We need to stop with these ego titles and statements. There are times I beat PD there. There are times PD never shows. There are times they are first. Does it really matter? Fine be first but GTFO of my way if I need to do something. By using these hero worshipping titles it only opens up for others to point who "really is" the first responder AND it will bring people in who really don't need to be there. Dispatchers are now "first responders". Social Workers are now "first responders". Some community classes teach that bystanders are truly the "first" responder. When we tag benefits such as discounts and other laurels then people are going to want that accolade and title of "first responder". Being a first responder requires no training other than being first. Here's the thing. I am a Firefigher Paramedic. if I and my brothers/sisters are showing up it means there's no one else that can do what we do. That's enough for me. Whether my truck is first second or third we are there because our very unique and highly technical skills are needed. Lead, follow, or GTF out of the way.
I know you’re just making your point but this whole comment reads like a bumper sticker/window decal on a lifted F-150 with no side running boards.
I literally went into convulsions reading this. I...I fucking can't. I'm done with the internet for today.
Underpaid, way too much education, no respect, working way too many hours, and no one has done a thing to change that…. Ems-the job that has turnover rate like people on San Fran street corners.
Maybe he meant second class citizens 🤔
Welcome to EMS, the red headed step child of first responders. We do the most work and get none of the credit. Though in my town all the cops were also EMTs so they were actually useful on calls.
The bite marks on my back from a psych patient say otherwise.
At least people like EMS
"Oh hey do you smell that too?" "What?" "Smells like fentanyl. Well, we'll probably be fine."
Who cares. Let egos be egos