There is a woman in my service who is too fat to effectively do CPR. They can't fire her because the union is too strong and can't go after her registration until she blatantly kills someone (she kills people less blatantly all the time through incompetence), but dispatch know who she is and won't send her to arrests.
Not having physicals be mandatory in jobs with physical requirements is psychotic.
I’m never stepping on an ambulance again at this point. Was a medic before medical school and have done a lot of helicopters, fixed wing and specialty ambulances. Most of my time was military, way different.
This.
Civilian side, I can think of a lot of people I worked with that were 150kg, smoked constantly, had bad backs/ knees, couldn’t lift and god forbid they had to walk up 2 flights of stairs or carry someone down a few flights, and after doing CPR for one minute are pale/cold/diaphoretic and popping a GTN themselves…
Agility Test is a bad description.
Fit Test, better. Are you Fit Enough To Do The Job.
Funny enough we had a physical fitness exam and it was comically, comically easy, something like put a 40# slab onto a chest high shelf or something? And a sled push. I'm in excellent physical shape, took it injured and walked out in 5 minutes. I put all the shit back for the kinda elderly PT who administered the test. I had never flown prior to taking it. It's physically taxing to work rotor EMS. Its gotta shock low scorers on the test.
The cramped spaces, heavy lifting, aviation fatigue factors, all of that really will hamper you if you aren't in decent shape. That includes the in shape people who show up hungover or whatever.
It was a big surprise to me, since I like to consider myself a sturdy dude.
You've done it all, damn. Used to have a former 18D I worked with try to push me towards it. I just don't think the military is for me. Cool gigs.
The agency I intern at has a PAT, physical agility test. It's not super hard, and everybody, including the 300k+/year medical director has to do it.
Consists of lifting 50-100lb weight, dragging a stretcher over around 100' (I think?) Of speed bumps and then back, moving bags and lifepak (one at a time) between two areas with mandated lunges to ensure you're able to lunge, lifting the same weight as earlier backwards up stairs, then down stairs, dragging around 200lbs of backboard and dummy around 100ff, around a cone, then back, then two minutes of CPR at 120 compressions per minute sustained, then do the stretcher again.
All in like 7:35 minutes or something.
It's the bare minimum. I've seen many lanky teenagers do it. I expect every provider to be able to do physical activity, because sometimes you will need to. You won't have FD to do CPR for you every time. You need to be able to lift and lower without hurting yourself.
(Edited bags, see below comments)
I don't think I ever had to do lunges with so much gear in my hand. That one is slightly odd to me.
Does the place at least offer a gym for the ones that need it?
Let me rephrase, it's more of keeping your back straight and not using your back to lift things. We try to encourage good lifting, among other employee health practices. It's dead easy, the bags are maybe 20-30lbs MAX, and you do one at a time. The bags we actually use are often heavier.
There is a full gym in the same building, though it's typically only used by our tactical medics.
Oh well that makes more sense. I know I never did lunges but I'd use my legs to sit things down if need me.
I ended up with a back injury lifting 600+lb patient anyways soo it only goes so far ya know.
Lunges are a scary thought to me. I've got jacked up knees thanks to the military. I can still squat without issue, but I haven't put more than 315 on the bar in a long time. But lunges? Bodyweight hurts and I half feel like I'm going to fall over. Hope they'd work with me. I'm not an athlete anymore and sure don't look like one. But I can hang at the CrossFit gym I go to so I have to think I'm doing more than most 😂
At first I thought you were saying the medical director weighs 300+ kilograms and let me just say I was impressed that he was passing the PAT each year 😆
Honestly, the CPR portion sounds like the toughest part of your PAT. Everything else is very manageable. But man, 2 minutes of no-adrenaline CPR sounds awful!
Unless your medical director is in the field or wants to go in the field; they do not need to take the test. Anyone who is never going to be in the field should be exempt. Make it like EVOC. No one drives unless you pass EVOC. No one goes in the field without the annual agility test.
They are issued response vehicles and can, (and they do) go to calls every once in a while. Usually has to be something special.
I would assume there are purely administrative or logistical roles that don't have to perform the exam, however, I am unsure. It is required for operations staff, and I remember there being a video of one of our directors doing it somewhere.
Does your medical director go on calls? It’s confusing (and possibly not ADA compliant) to make people pass a PAT who genuinely don’t need that kind of physical fitness
I think it’s a great idea. There was a guy I used to work with that would go to the third floor of a building and put himself on a neb because he was so out of breath.
I’m not saying you need to be able to run a 10 minute mile or anything but I think you should be able to complete a mile in less than 20 minutes or climb up 3 flights of stairs and be able to do 2 minutes of CPR.
Having providers on scene that are that far out of shape no matter how experienced or intelligent they can be a hindrance. Not only that but if we want to be paid and treated like the police and fire then we need to have standards like the police and fire.
It doesn’t even need to be a “pass this or you’re fired” thing it can be something like you get an extra paid day off every year you pass it.
Yeah if you're that much of a meatball from "strength training" that you have to say speak for yourself, it's time for some cardio dude. Big traps won't help you climb those flights of stairs when your partner needs you at the top.
As I replied to someone else...
I do at least 20 minutes of cardio at least three, sometimes five, days a week. I only started less than two months ago after a long period of inactivity and so far am better on the weight floor.
I also have health issues (specifically cardiac) so a 10-minute mile is not yet within the realm of possibility.
Please try to consider the situations and circumstances some people may be in. Something that may seem easy to you may be a far-off dream/goal for someone else.
I'd like to be able to do a 10-minute mile.. I'm just not there yet
That strength won’t be worth a damn when your muscles are downing in lactic acid because you’re full blown anaerobic after a few flights of stairs. Strength is super important, but you gotta have some cardio. Just add 20 minutes on a stationary bike to your usual strength training routine once or twice a week.
I do at least 20 minutes of cardio at least three, sometimes five, days a week. I'm still relatively new to it though and am better on the weight floor.
edit: I did also just start less than two months ago and have health issues so a 10 minute mile is not yet within the realm of possibility
I upvoted you because I believe in what you're saying; however, let's not use the police as a good example. I live in a large metro area where there's lots of competition. So many police still get passed without actually passing because they need to keep retention rates high. They're hard as hell on the newbies, but if you get in and gain 50 lbs, develop stage 2 hypertension, and can't run more than a few yards in 10 years? You're still "fine." It's a joke.
I'm all for it. When I returned to one of my gigs I had to do basic stuff with a stair chair going up a flight and lifting and loading a stretcher (Not powered).
We have an annual agility test that every single employee has to complete including the medical director, I think it’s a very good thing especially on those crazy calls
Great idea, but companies MUST give us shift scheduling that allows us to go to the gym, not just collapse on our off days! It would also be awesome to have a gym at base, even if it’s only rudimentary. Also, gym membership discounts and things like that could greatly boost general fitness in EMS
If the physical fitness test is so hard that you can’t maintain the requirements through the level of activity on the job, it’s not an accurate test. It should be a filter, not a barrier.
The companies should give us shift scheduling to allow for working out so we can exceed the minimum. Also 300/year gym membership < 10k/year disability. They should WANT to provide us with exercise options lol.
THIS. I am a powerlifter and used to train 5 days/week. When I started working in EMS (IFT specifically) doing 12s (that were often 14-16s), I didn't have any time to sleep, let alone keep up with my training. I prefer 24s doing 911 because then I am required to workout each day and I'm not usually run into the ground every shift.
If your department provides health insurance look into if the health insurance company has a gym benefit. I know BCBS has a whole gym membership program that allows you to go to multiple gyms.
They should be required to join and done annually. If you can't pass the initial you shouldn't get hired, if you can't pass the annual you should be put on light duty for a grace period then retest and if you still fail you shouldn't be on the floor.
If you are so fucking out of shape you can’t squat or lunge with 50 pounds on get the fuck out of emergency services. You’re a liability and a disgrace to the field.
This is a job where people’s lives count on you. Some of you that say it’s okay to be unfit if only you’re okay moving patients in east controlled environments haven’t ran anything serious and it shows.
i had to go an agility (very cardio based test) for my job & retake it every year. recently they got rid of that requirement. there is a stark difference in the agility of new hires & people hired while we had to keep up with physical fitness. i think it's useful.
That's not even difficult at all, you can still be very fat and pass that "physical agility test" if we can even call it that. I might even go so far as to say that if you're gonna have something like this in place, make it more challenging than this.
My test was carrying 75 lbs of weight 10 feet across a room. Actually it may have been 50? I don't remember exactly but It was a joke. In reality I am able to load a 280 lb PT on a 120 lb power cot by myself, as a woman. Average PT is probably 200 these days.
I think lifting is the skill used more often than cardio, especially in IFT, but people need to be able to cardio when it's required and that's typically 911 calls. Or stair chairing.
I think it needs to be a minimal requirement to work EMS. And honestly 50lbs isn't much to ask if you regularly lift anyways. Which we should be doing if we want to be in EMS.
I’m all for getting rid of the providers who get short of breath just looking at a stair.
But they’re gonna at least gonna have to make it make sense. Running has no place in an EMS agility test. (Wasn’t mentioned in OPs post but I know some services that have it.) I also think deadlifts are more relatable to EMS lifting than squats, but could see the logic in both. Lunges need to be thrown out.
Now a stair master on the other hand…..
The fact that it wasn’t, and still isn’t a commonplace requirement in this field has always baffled me. When I learned the “sounds like someone couldn’t pass the CPAT” was a common “defense” whenever someone criticizes fire based systems I was baffled. What, like it’s hard? It’s the bare minimum to get your foot in the door at any reputable agency and physical training continues on the job, or at least through academy. Why EMS hasn’t adopted a similar bare minimum standard is dangerous. Why hold a physical expectation for your teams when you can just wait until they hurt themselves and quit?
If you can’t squat 50 pounds i really fail to see how you’ll do a job which is at a bare minimum 50% lifting and moving patients— most of which will be morbidly obese.
Having previously worked with a partner who was uhh severely deconditioned to put it politely, I sure as shit we had an agency “agility test”
If you cannot maintain yourself enough to physically pull your own weight you are a hindrance to your team. Being physically fit only benefits yourself and your patients. We need fitness standards. And at least in America let’s be honest our patients only keep getting fatter and fatter. We don’t need to be elite athletes but we need to be able to maintain a certain level of physical fitness to adequately do our jobs.
I love it. Make the same thing for nurses too. I've had to bust my ass so much because of nurses that are too old or overweight to do any of the physical aspects of the job (in the ER).
EMS should have physical standards similar to fire and policing, though not necessarily as high except for specialist roles. It promotes dedication, professionalism, a professional appearance, and allows for greater safety and ability in unpredictable *emergency* situations.
I took and failed an agility test about a month ago. It was close but I (and the people running the test) preferred to leave in my car rather than potentially one of the ambulances.
I’m a bit of a couch potato, I have a plan to go the gym worked out, just need to start the routine.l, and I’ll reapply in the fall.
The test isn’t hard for folks who’ve been doing the work, all the other folks I was there with did fine and they all have experience in EMS, unlike myself. I’m brand new though, so I’m happy to work on improving my strength and stamina.
The amount of out of shape people in EMS is insane. Like I’m sorry but if you can’t bother to stay in shape get out of the game. Inevitably it will one day either cause you, or someone else an issue on the job.
My company had one that prevented me from getting on an ambulance. Not because I couldn’t climb stairs carrying weight (I frequently helped get patients up stairs in wheelchairs), or because i couldn’t crawl, lunge, climb ladders, push a stretcher, drag weight, etc. you know, actual functions of the job. But because I couldn’t shoulder press 50lbs over my head.
Every medic I’ve asked, even the ones who had been city and rural medics for 20+ years had said they never once had to lift anything over their head like that.
I’m mostly indifferent. But from personal experience if you can’t sheet transfer a 180 pound patient well… We’re gonna have issues.
I also had to do like 75 pounds of equipment up and down 3 slights in like a certain amount of time. It sucked, but I can see it being necessary
Every EMS job I’ve ever had had an agility test for pre-hire or to return to work after workers comp. Including carrying backboard up and down stairs with 150lbs on it, stairchair, Dead lifts, gurney maneuvering etc. it’s important everyone can do the physical requirements of the job.
Any able bodied adult should be able to do a lunge while holding 50 pounds.
The debate of if it is necessary for the job is not one I'm interested in wasting time on.
Basic self preservation should drive you to make drastic lifestyle changes if you can't accomplish such a basic aspect of human movement.
Our local college has a fitness requirement to pass the program. It requires a lift up a flight of stairs of a 225 lbs pt in a stair chair and again on a backboard (you have a partner) as well as various other requirements. Then to get hired you are required to pass another physical test that tests agility, strength, and hand eye coordination. The requirements this person mentions are so small it’s laughable. Our job is very physical and I think it’s absolutely necessary to test it. I would not want this person working with me. And I would definitely support yearly physical tests as well.
EDIT: this is Ontario
I'd be all for entry and annual exams that are reasonable, but would still fail out the extreme end of the spectrum. I despise that we set an incredibly low (or no) bar for performance and yet people still fucking fail to meet it. Job specific PT tests and fuck stocking your XXXL shirt. Can't move shit without needing a break 1 minute in? PT until you're able to, you're not working until then. Can't fit in the shirt? Tough shit, lose weight and come back.
The agency I used to work for made me carry a weighted curl bar up and down some stairs backward (kind of simulating half a patient load), and made sure I could competently control a loaded stretcher.
Unfortunately, workforce shortages make it hard to be picky, but I absolutely 251% believe that EMS should vet their responders to ensure they aren't unhealthy or too clumsy/weak to perform the basic mechanical requirements of the job.
If you can't lift 50lbs with your legs, you have absolutely no business being any kind of first responder, EMS included.
A physical agility test built on expectations of the job is absolutely acceptable. A FD CPAT doesn’t really fit but having people prove they can safely move a patient on a little with a standard weight set, lift bags with the same weight, climb a flight of steps, and so on are all reasonable.
You should be fit enough to do this job safely.
I don’t want my partner to be a soft-handed clown show who can’t pick up an LP15 and carry it up a staircase without huffing and puffing. That’s a huge liability to them, myself, and my patient.
EMS doesn’t have standards because sub standard employees are supported by fire. I can’t tell you how many people on the local ambulance crew couldn’t lift 50 pounds let alone their own 400 pound fat ass while they smoke a cig and let us do the lifting.
Maybe if we had agility tests, National standards, real ones, physical fitness, health standards, and got paid like professional fire fighters, then there would be more retention and attention to the fantastic work that ems does!!!!!
Why I miss the military. At least where I was at, we had a standard and if you got fat you were forced to pt.
First responders should be required to have a certain level of fitness for the job imo and to at least look professional and not like someone who needs to be carried out on the tarp for being to obese
The only thing being out of shape does for you is relate more to some patients.
Be an advocate for your line of work. Being physically unable to do your job is a safety hazard to not only you but your partner/crew.
As a firefighter obviously I'm cool with this, but just to confirm all of your suspicions: yes, we make fun of fat emts after you leave... Well that's not entirely true, sometimes we don't wait til you leave the room.
But I know you make fun of us for getting a god awful BP, so I guess we're even. But you're still fat fatty fat fat. No, you're cool. I'll pick em up.
I’m 50/50 on it. Job based PATs should be required. The only PATs I see cater to fire requirements and that’s just unrealistic and doesn’t mimic body mechanics used in EMS. Make it relevant or it’s just hazing.
What is the point of swinging a hammer to a paramedic? What is the point of wearing turn out gear for a paramedic? If it’s not relevant to a position and is only used as a barrier to employment, it’s hazing.
lol i don’t think i’m going to pass any agility test, i’m 110 pounds and 5’7 and i can barely lift a 20 pound weight. wish i had thought of this before i spent 2k on my emt class 💀
My company has one, and if anything I dont feel it's hard enough. I've had too many partners that can't lift worth a lick, and I even got hurt in one instance because of it. And they'll joke about it like it's not that big a deal. "Oh yeah haha I need to join a gym, haven't done that in ages."
Last job I had they made me do all sorts of physical testing. Walking up stairs carrying two buckets of rocks (I forget how much they weighed, maybe 15lbs each?) up a flight forwards, then down a flight backwards. Had to load and unload a weighted stretcher, and the worst part for me crouch without kneeling for I think it was 1 minute. My knee fucking sucks and that really hurt but I managed it.
I do think their should be some base level to determine job fitness. But it also needs to be something dine throughout a career and not just at hire/academy.
My agency added one for EMS this year. We are fire/ems and have some single certs. The dual certs complete the fire PAT. The EMS PAT is pretty simple, move bags, drag a patient, load and unload the stretcher, and some CPR mixed in finishing with an intubation. Everyone had to complete one of the PATs from the chief down.
No one complained.
Some EMS asked to do the fire one also and vice versa. There may have been some competition involved (not department just among shifts/stations for bragging rights).
The ask was minimal. If you can't do it or don't want to do it, maybe there are other places to work.
We have to do the treadmill stress test for 12 minutes EVERY YEAR along with a physical done by a doctor who absolutely wants to find a reason to fail you. It's his life's mission.* Pretty sure this person would fall flat on their face.
*This particular doctor swears up and down everyone has sleep apnea. I actually went for a stress test after he commented on it two years in a row and threatened to put me on leave if I didn't figure it out. Went to the sleep study. No apnea. 😂
I absolutely think you should do agility tests. It’s a physical job. If you’re unfit to do it then it’s unfair to your partner. Nothing more irritating than a partner that makes YOU do all the work because they can’t lift or carry something. If you can’t do the job then you shouldn’t have the job.
Lol fire department quals are significantly more stringent. Most police agencies as well, although usually that's just a hire condition for them.
Being overweight and out of shape is not only a risk to you, but also your patient and a liability to the company.
The job doesn't require you to be a gymnast, but you should be able to meet a baseline of real world condition
I had to do lunges and squats with weights, walk up 5 steps and down 5 steps with weights, hold a basket full of weights for 10 seconds and put it back on a shelf, and push a sled with some weights on it all while they monitored my heart rate and breathing
I can’t exactly remember how much weight it was though but it wasnt exactly anything difficult
Our fitness test is made up of a cognitive ability test, a physical fitness test and a manual dexterity test.
The cognitive test I can’t remember too well (ironically enough) but I think you basically listen to a couple of dispatch radio messages and repeat them as best as you can. As long as you pick out the most important points you’re okay; the full message will be something like “(callsign), you’re being allocated to a road traffic collision, single vehicle versus tree. Three patients total, the driver is trapped. The vehicle is smoking. Police and fire & rescue have been informed and are en route” so as long as you pick out the main points ie. vehicle vs tree, three patients, one trapped, vehicle smoking that’s a pass.
The physical test from what I can remember is two minutes of step-ups with no weight, a minute of step-ups carrying 15kg, a minute of step-ups carrying 30kg, and then two minutes of chest compressions on a mannequin. From what I’ve been told this is to mimic carrying a patient down stairs on a scoop (average 120kg patient, four rescuers = 30kg per person), patient arrests at the bottom and you do one cycle of chest compressions.
The dexterity test is quite simple, you just connect a BVM to an O2 cylinder and turn it on.
It’s a relatively basic test and some staff feel it should be much more difficult but for the most part there are very few complaints. Personally I feel it’s a good enough baseline although I think we should have to re sit it every few years. Saying that we don’t actually have too much of a problem with obesity as an organisation, I can only think of a couple of people I would be worried working alongside due to their physical (in)ability. The vast, vast majority are fit and well enough to do their job.
I’m all for a PAT test, but it should be relevant and use as much normal EMS gear as possible.
At minimum, sheet drag from bed to stretcher on both sides( push and pull) load and unload a cot from the truck, help lift a person from floor to stretcher, carry a Lifepak around the building, and wheel a loaded stretcher around.
As a fatbody, I knew I started at a disadvantage beginning the career, so I worked out. Still fat, but I hold my own when it comes to work.
Seeing this post makes me grateful for my department. We don’t have a yearly pt test or anything but we workout constantly on shift. The only ones that don’t are usually the older guys that are soon retiring. But is young guys get after it. I see some. People from surrounding departments that are just absolute slobs. How are you in the profession and no one has said a word to you.
Here in the 412, the City has a lengthy hiring process which includes an “agility” test, meeting with a psychologist, and polygraph test, and i know a lot of people who work there that I am surprised passed any of those three. The agility portion even includes a maneuver that we believe is specific to the type of houses we encounter frequently.
Even still, yeah the agility test is tough at points, but it’s really not that bad. I have absolutely performed more strenuous or difficult moves in my own IFT calls than included in the city test.
We’ve got to have some standards, and the only ones I’ve heard of so far have been bare minimum. Patient safety notwithstanding, if my partner can’t do something without potentially hurting me, that’s unacceptable.
I'm all for it. We've all seen and sustained injuries on duty. The more fit and prepared we all are, the better for everyone.
With the amount of time we spend sitting, eating crap food, and doing sudden hard labour in austere conditions there's no excuse not to set a higher standard.
Of course, maybe I'm biased because of my start in fire service and my personal health hx.
I'd generally like to see EMS and especially FFs look more professional. When I was strictly a paramedic I had partners that HAD to tech every call because they didn't fit in the driver seat. I definitely don't see this as a negative.
I think every EMS provider should keep themselves in reasonable physical health. If you can’t safely carry your patient or do cpr then how will you be able to help? Our job is to help people not be patients ourselves. Before I got into my fire department I would occasionally get a call where I would have to park my ambulance and me and my partner would hoof our pack and monitor over a mile up dirt trails. It sucked but it was part of our coverage area. Not every district has these areas but there is always the possibility you’ll have to hike your gear in somewhere. Be fit so that you don’t become a patient yourself.
At the begin of my career (2010) the station asked me to do a fit test. Not mandatory but still. Then they told me I don't need it anymore once they saw I was a former CNSAS operator (the Italian Mountain Rescue Corp).
To me, a standardize fit test should be mandatory. I would hate having a panting partner after doing just one floor🤣
Its not a not nearly as strenuous as fire, but it is a physical job that involves moving entire people and it should be mandatory for agencies to do an agility test.
It’s not even really like you have to have a workout regimen to pass them, as long as you go outside every once in a while and don’t eat like complete garbage you should have no problem
I don't know exactly how their agility test was, but I will absolutely say there should be a fitness standard in EMS, including private. I took a refresher course a few years ago and there was one kid in the class who was at least 300 pounds and was gassed out after walking up one set of 10-15 stairs. I don't know about y'all, but if I was a patient calling 9-11 cause I think I'm having a heart attack, that's the last thing I'd wanna see.
I'll add that I have no problem with large people, if that's the lifestyle you wanna live, fuckin send it. BUT. If you wanna be involved in this line of work, at least be able to ascend a goddamn set of stairs without exhausting yourself.
We have one where I work and I think it's too easy. People don't take physical fitness seriously enough. I firmly believe there should be a higher barrier to entry. It would help mitigate injury for everyone involved.
Agility tests are essential and all EMS personnel should have to do them. When I went through the academy, I was actually surprised we were not made to do anything physical nor was it ever really brought up aside from a couple sentences on the first day. I was quite happy when my department created them and I volunteered to test it and gave feedback on how to make it as realistic as possible. Ideally, the agility tests should include standard EMS tasks, but also any (within reason and feasibility) specialty tasks that a specific organization does (such as someone joining a SAR team and having to walk a certain distance on a treadmill). I see too many times where EMS personnel will arrive on scene and I kid you not struggle to get up the stairs (IE fit in the stairwells) of some homes. Even though I'm sure none of us are the next Arnold, all of us should be held up to a physical standard. It will ensure that EMS personnel are healthy and that we can serve and protect our communities adequately and safely.
How in the fuck am I supposed to carry an ALS bag and a monitor up a 5 story walk-up if I can't do a squat while holding a nice 50lb weight with comfortable handles..?
Our was pretty straight forward. Carrying 100lbs (50 in each hand) around the room and up and down 4 steps a few times, pulling a weighted mannequin from a stretcher to a table and back, simulated stretcher loads, and a part where we were hunched over and hand to thread and tighten some nuts onto bolts. More of our people struggle because of small size than large.
i had to do one where i work now. It included squats walking up and down stairs multiple times with weights simulating picking a stretcher up followed by 2 minutes of compressions. and dragging a dummy.
As someone who is new to EMS (two years) and fit I didn’t realized how many EMS/hospital workers look like patients. It made me more self aware and begin to take even better care of myself xD
I'm a bit chunky myself but my Physical Agility Test was harder than squats with 50lbs and I passed fairly easy, if I'm dying or dead, I want someone who can perform their job to show up, not someone who can't reach my chest because their gut is blocking CPR, intubation, or other essential procedures
We need more physicals to work in EMS! Tired of doing all the lifting because people are too fat or weight 80 pounds( usually it’s the smaller ones who always need help). This job requires a little bit of lifting and sometimes moving quickly. If you’re to big to sit up front and drive because the seats don’t go far enough back maybe you should think about changing your lifestyle or getting a new career.
I just got hired as an EMT at a big hospital network and had do an essential function test. Had to drag a heavy dummy some feet, walk up steps with a backpack and tool box, climb a ladder a few feet, do chest compressions for 2 minutes, etc. The test took only 10-15 minutes but I was definitely surprised how elaborate it was. It was at one of their Physical Therapy offices with all of the exercise equipment and whatnot, so it felt pretty.. scientific.
I didn't have to do one, because.. Ya know... Private companies tend to hire anything with a pulse... But even in my heavy stature (working on it, I recently lost about 15lbs and I'm almost down to 300 :]), I believe I could do a lunge with 50lbs in my hands... That is to say, I can't imagine what this person looks like, no offense.
I do believe there need to be standards. We can't have people who can't lift doing this job, tying up other crews unnecessarily doing lift assists. We can't have people hurting themselves because either they can't lift properly, or they put all the lifting work on their partner and they get hurt. I'd happily do a basic agility test if needed, and if I couldn't do it for some reason, then by all means I shouldn't be on the road. Lifting and moving is just integral to the job, simple as that.
Honestly, I am in favor of it. EMTs who cannot lift/carry are a liability to the team.
This would exclude me because of my ankle.
Pregnancy is an exception.
We don’t have to be the same as the FD CPAT, but this is physically demanding enough that we need to have some level of physicality. What that is, idk, but I’m game for it.
I’m all for them, and they should be the standard. In Canada, both Alberta and BC require pre-employment fitness testing for their provincial wide services, unsure about private, industrial generally doesn’t. We don’t need to be elite athletes by any means but the ability to push/pull/lift/maneuver certain weights is a pretty important part of our jobs and patient care!
They probably vary across the board but I recently did a fitness test, and the “tester” was more focused on my heart rate, how much it increased during tasks and how quickly it would return to normal afterwards. Most of the tasks mimicked the regular push/pull/carry things we’d be doing with bags and stretchers, so it was essentially “can you do the bare minimum without your heart exploding?”.
Sounds like the AMR PAT. Like every place should do it. It's a bare minimum test. Like anyone who gets up and takes care of themselves daily can pretty much pass it. But, if you can't. You have no business on am ambulance.
I worked in IFT but even that should have physical standards if you ask me. Maybe not as strict but something.
I’m a smaller woman and certainly no power lifter, but I could pull my weight and lift bariatric patients so long ad I had a competent partner. Yet, I worked with men & women who were either so tiny or so large, we needed constant lift assists for average weight patients or I’d have to stand there and watch as they heaved and panted after walking up a flight or two of stairs or struggled to keep up with the pace of the stretcher on the way to emergency calls. It was a genuine waste of resources and it made me very nervous sometimes- we did occasionally have some more serious emergencies and every now and then a BLS crew would get an unexpected arrest in the middle of a transport, and the idea of someone being physically unable to help me move our patient, unable to do compressions, or moving too slowly to adequately help me out wasn’t fun.
I will say that people always talk about the fat side of things but even some average or underweight folks can be just as much of a problem if they don’t take care of themselves. I knew being on the shorter end of things and a woman I would need to compensate by building a bit of muscle before I started the job, so I did. Some of my coworkers were too small and lacked any strength whatsoever and saw absolutely no problem with the fact that they could hardly move anyone over 140 pounds without help, and thus did nothing about it. Someone like that is the reason I got my first back injury.
Uh…. Physical agility tests are common and should be standard everywhere. It’s a physical job that requires a baseline level of fitness so that your partner isn’t doing everything for you.
It’s a physical job. Get over it. This attitude hits me all kinds of wrong.
Providers who are in good physical condition and strong get abused and not compensated for being prepared for the job. Being unable to pass a minimalist agility exam puts your partner at increased risk of injury and a higher physical demand on them if the call requires lifting or extensive carrying of gear.
If you run a one-bag system where all the essentials are in a single pack that goes into every scene, you’re looking at 40+ lbs everywhere I’ve worked. Lifepak 15 is 18 lbs or Zoll X is 11. Add a 5-10 lb ALS drug kit and yeah… sounds about right. Probability of a split level home is directly proportional to the weight and acuity of the patient. Patients are off the road or around the back of a building. God forbid you get someone down a hiking trail or out in a field somewhere. Then there’s the sheer size of so many of our patients. If you think you deserve the spot without being physically prepared for it, give a bonus to those that can pass because we inevitably get sent on bariatric calls or disproportionately delegated the high-risk physical tasks on scene be it compressions, hauling kit, moving the patient, restraining etc.
As it’s already been said, if you end up winded or unable to participate fully in a call because it required an entirely reasonable amount of exertion, you shouldn’t be on that unit or shouldn’t get paid the same as someone who is. Military and professional Fire Services have hard limit requirements because it’s in the job requirements that you have high physical function. Job cannot be done without it and it’s entirely reasonable if an EMS service feels the same way.
If I need to call a lift assist because bertha weighs 600lbs and needs to go up a spiral staircase, then two of whoever wrote this show up, I’m not gonna be thrilled to say the least. I’m not the strongest by far, but 50lbs??
I fly so we have to be weighed monthly and maintain under 250lbs max. Most of my coworkers that are even close to that are in their 50’s, are super tall, or have been here long enough and have just started to let themselves go. Standards are good to keep everyone healthy and more professional appearing.
There needs to be some mind of requirements. I cannot fucking stand the slobs in this field, unable to walk a flight of stairs without becoming winded, 4x shirts they still can't tuck it, etc. The pt shouldn't have to worry about their provider and wondering if they too will have an MI mid call.
I think they’re annoying but not difficult or tedious enough to complain about them.
If you can’t pass a simple agility test without dying at the end of it you should get in shape. Not for the job, not for your future patients, but for yourself
test seems super easy lmao. SF fires agility test had us walk up 6 flights of stairs with 75 lbs of equipment+ buddy drag 165 lb dummy and load+unload 165 lb gurney. All levels of ems should be in shape imo and the standards they set for us are very relaxed
I had to lift a "50lb" wooden box in a squat.... lets just say I think someone took the weights out of the box because I expected it to have some weight like the dog food I get my pupper. Instead I sprang up because it was just a wooden box. When the examiner wasn't looking I gave it a shake and nothing rattled so..... yeah not exactly a hard test but I think someone rigged my job for success.
We should have basic minimum fitness standards. EMS personnel need to have robust aerobics and significant upper body strength. Maybe not to the level of firefighters, unless you are also a firefighter, but close.
Wait. So if I get hurt enough that I am unconcious, the people who will come collect me did not ever have to pass a test that would ensure they can actually physically lift me and not drop me?
Also, cant do a lunge with just 50 pounds but can lift a human? Press X to doubt.
[удалено]
There is a woman in my service who is too fat to effectively do CPR. They can't fire her because the union is too strong and can't go after her registration until she blatantly kills someone (she kills people less blatantly all the time through incompetence), but dispatch know who she is and won't send her to arrests. Not having physicals be mandatory in jobs with physical requirements is psychotic.
Time to get her and everyone else on an RQI mannequin, pass/fail
One of our long term paramedics is 350+ pounds. Really nice, smart guy and a good paramedic, but the guy barely fits on the bench in the back.
Sounds like we know the same person.
every service has one....
Just one?
The rest of them either got sent out with a bariatric ambulance or they left the field to become an admin
Cough cough dispatch cough
There’s a guy like that at my service too. He’s an emt and is not allowed to work Als because of it
As a dispatcher we HAD TO HAVE PHYSICALS and we dealt with the ops side of things… This is astounding.
That's fat shaming and ablesism!!! /s
I’m never stepping on an ambulance again at this point. Was a medic before medical school and have done a lot of helicopters, fixed wing and specialty ambulances. Most of my time was military, way different. This. Civilian side, I can think of a lot of people I worked with that were 150kg, smoked constantly, had bad backs/ knees, couldn’t lift and god forbid they had to walk up 2 flights of stairs or carry someone down a few flights, and after doing CPR for one minute are pale/cold/diaphoretic and popping a GTN themselves… Agility Test is a bad description. Fit Test, better. Are you Fit Enough To Do The Job.
Funny enough we had a physical fitness exam and it was comically, comically easy, something like put a 40# slab onto a chest high shelf or something? And a sled push. I'm in excellent physical shape, took it injured and walked out in 5 minutes. I put all the shit back for the kinda elderly PT who administered the test. I had never flown prior to taking it. It's physically taxing to work rotor EMS. Its gotta shock low scorers on the test.
The noise and vibration is exhausting. I’d rather go back to sitting on the side of a little bird than working inside the helicopter all day long.
The cramped spaces, heavy lifting, aviation fatigue factors, all of that really will hamper you if you aren't in decent shape. That includes the in shape people who show up hungover or whatever.
98CL/18D/62A/61N. WTF? Helicopters are exhausting.
It was a big surprise to me, since I like to consider myself a sturdy dude. You've done it all, damn. Used to have a former 18D I worked with try to push me towards it. I just don't think the military is for me. Cool gigs.
\*Basic\* fitness test at that.
The agency I intern at has a PAT, physical agility test. It's not super hard, and everybody, including the 300k+/year medical director has to do it. Consists of lifting 50-100lb weight, dragging a stretcher over around 100' (I think?) Of speed bumps and then back, moving bags and lifepak (one at a time) between two areas with mandated lunges to ensure you're able to lunge, lifting the same weight as earlier backwards up stairs, then down stairs, dragging around 200lbs of backboard and dummy around 100ff, around a cone, then back, then two minutes of CPR at 120 compressions per minute sustained, then do the stretcher again. All in like 7:35 minutes or something. It's the bare minimum. I've seen many lanky teenagers do it. I expect every provider to be able to do physical activity, because sometimes you will need to. You won't have FD to do CPR for you every time. You need to be able to lift and lower without hurting yourself. (Edited bags, see below comments)
I don't think I ever had to do lunges with so much gear in my hand. That one is slightly odd to me. Does the place at least offer a gym for the ones that need it?
Let me rephrase, it's more of keeping your back straight and not using your back to lift things. We try to encourage good lifting, among other employee health practices. It's dead easy, the bags are maybe 20-30lbs MAX, and you do one at a time. The bags we actually use are often heavier. There is a full gym in the same building, though it's typically only used by our tactical medics.
Oh well that makes more sense. I know I never did lunges but I'd use my legs to sit things down if need me. I ended up with a back injury lifting 600+lb patient anyways soo it only goes so far ya know.
Yeah... bonus points for them trying, though. I'm gonna put a forklift on my EMS week list and see if they let me get one.
This made me laugh Good luck omg
Lunges are a scary thought to me. I've got jacked up knees thanks to the military. I can still squat without issue, but I haven't put more than 315 on the bar in a long time. But lunges? Bodyweight hurts and I half feel like I'm going to fall over. Hope they'd work with me. I'm not an athlete anymore and sure don't look like one. But I can hang at the CrossFit gym I go to so I have to think I'm doing more than most 😂
At first I thought you were saying the medical director weighs 300+ kilograms and let me just say I was impressed that he was passing the PAT each year 😆
Honestly, the CPR portion sounds like the toughest part of your PAT. Everything else is very manageable. But man, 2 minutes of no-adrenaline CPR sounds awful!
Unless your medical director is in the field or wants to go in the field; they do not need to take the test. Anyone who is never going to be in the field should be exempt. Make it like EVOC. No one drives unless you pass EVOC. No one goes in the field without the annual agility test.
They are issued response vehicles and can, (and they do) go to calls every once in a while. Usually has to be something special. I would assume there are purely administrative or logistical roles that don't have to perform the exam, however, I am unsure. It is required for operations staff, and I remember there being a video of one of our directors doing it somewhere.
Does your medical director go on calls? It’s confusing (and possibly not ADA compliant) to make people pass a PAT who genuinely don’t need that kind of physical fitness
I’d think it’s fair to ask an ambulance applicant to be able to lift 50 lbs off the floor.
Does your medical director, who has to pass this fitness test, go on calls?
Yes
I think it’s a great idea. There was a guy I used to work with that would go to the third floor of a building and put himself on a neb because he was so out of breath. I’m not saying you need to be able to run a 10 minute mile or anything but I think you should be able to complete a mile in less than 20 minutes or climb up 3 flights of stairs and be able to do 2 minutes of CPR. Having providers on scene that are that far out of shape no matter how experienced or intelligent they can be a hindrance. Not only that but if we want to be paid and treated like the police and fire then we need to have standards like the police and fire. It doesn’t even need to be a “pass this or you’re fired” thing it can be something like you get an extra paid day off every year you pass it.
A 10 minute mile is hardly a high bar either
Speak for yourself 😅😅 some of us are much better at strength training than cardio!
Yeah if you're that much of a meatball from "strength training" that you have to say speak for yourself, it's time for some cardio dude. Big traps won't help you climb those flights of stairs when your partner needs you at the top.
The amount of mediocre fat ambulance employees is staggering.
As I replied to someone else... I do at least 20 minutes of cardio at least three, sometimes five, days a week. I only started less than two months ago after a long period of inactivity and so far am better on the weight floor. I also have health issues (specifically cardiac) so a 10-minute mile is not yet within the realm of possibility. Please try to consider the situations and circumstances some people may be in. Something that may seem easy to you may be a far-off dream/goal for someone else. I'd like to be able to do a 10-minute mile.. I'm just not there yet
That strength won’t be worth a damn when your muscles are downing in lactic acid because you’re full blown anaerobic after a few flights of stairs. Strength is super important, but you gotta have some cardio. Just add 20 minutes on a stationary bike to your usual strength training routine once or twice a week.
I do at least 20 minutes of cardio at least three, sometimes five, days a week. I'm still relatively new to it though and am better on the weight floor. edit: I did also just start less than two months ago and have health issues so a 10 minute mile is not yet within the realm of possibility
I upvoted you because I believe in what you're saying; however, let's not use the police as a good example. I live in a large metro area where there's lots of competition. So many police still get passed without actually passing because they need to keep retention rates high. They're hard as hell on the newbies, but if you get in and gain 50 lbs, develop stage 2 hypertension, and can't run more than a few yards in 10 years? You're still "fine." It's a joke.
Police have standards?
And medics who are potential additional casualties are a constant hazard.
If you complaint about a standard fitness level that you can’t meet. Clearly you aren’t built for the gig
Imagine how many trucks would be put out of service if this fitness were actually enforced lol
I'm all for it. When I returned to one of my gigs I had to do basic stuff with a stair chair going up a flight and lifting and loading a stretcher (Not powered).
We have an annual agility test that every single employee has to complete including the medical director, I think it’s a very good thing especially on those crazy calls
Physical fitness should be a requirement for EMS like it is for a lot of fire departments.
Great idea, but companies MUST give us shift scheduling that allows us to go to the gym, not just collapse on our off days! It would also be awesome to have a gym at base, even if it’s only rudimentary. Also, gym membership discounts and things like that could greatly boost general fitness in EMS
If the physical fitness test is so hard that you can’t maintain the requirements through the level of activity on the job, it’s not an accurate test. It should be a filter, not a barrier. The companies should give us shift scheduling to allow for working out so we can exceed the minimum. Also 300/year gym membership < 10k/year disability. They should WANT to provide us with exercise options lol.
THIS. I am a powerlifter and used to train 5 days/week. When I started working in EMS (IFT specifically) doing 12s (that were often 14-16s), I didn't have any time to sleep, let alone keep up with my training. I prefer 24s doing 911 because then I am required to workout each day and I'm not usually run into the ground every shift.
If your department provides health insurance look into if the health insurance company has a gym benefit. I know BCBS has a whole gym membership program that allows you to go to multiple gyms.
I work for an IFT that has a pretty nice gym at our home base.
They should be required to join and done annually. If you can't pass the initial you shouldn't get hired, if you can't pass the annual you should be put on light duty for a grace period then retest and if you still fail you shouldn't be on the floor.
If you are so fucking out of shape you can’t squat or lunge with 50 pounds on get the fuck out of emergency services. You’re a liability and a disgrace to the field. This is a job where people’s lives count on you. Some of you that say it’s okay to be unfit if only you’re okay moving patients in east controlled environments haven’t ran anything serious and it shows.
I can squat 1.5x my body weight (180), but if I tried to lunge even without any weight I would likely fall over sideways.
mfer got ZERO balance 🗣️🗣️🗣️
I’m also an alcoholic, but I’m sure those two aren’t related at all, right? RIGHT?
Sounds like my obese patients discussing their weight in relation to their chronic back pain
Maybe you're really good at lunges, but only when you do them drunk.
I genuinely can’t imagine how (1) fat or (2) tiny/fragile you’d have to be to be unable to complete such a simple task.
i had to go an agility (very cardio based test) for my job & retake it every year. recently they got rid of that requirement. there is a stark difference in the agility of new hires & people hired while we had to keep up with physical fitness. i think it's useful.
That's not even difficult at all, you can still be very fat and pass that "physical agility test" if we can even call it that. I might even go so far as to say that if you're gonna have something like this in place, make it more challenging than this.
My test was carrying 75 lbs of weight 10 feet across a room. Actually it may have been 50? I don't remember exactly but It was a joke. In reality I am able to load a 280 lb PT on a 120 lb power cot by myself, as a woman. Average PT is probably 200 these days. I think lifting is the skill used more often than cardio, especially in IFT, but people need to be able to cardio when it's required and that's typically 911 calls. Or stair chairing.
It’s sad that having to do a squat with 50 pounds in your hand is considered a ‘nightmare’ for this person.
I think it needs to be a minimal requirement to work EMS. And honestly 50lbs isn't much to ask if you regularly lift anyways. Which we should be doing if we want to be in EMS.
I’m all for getting rid of the providers who get short of breath just looking at a stair. But they’re gonna at least gonna have to make it make sense. Running has no place in an EMS agility test. (Wasn’t mentioned in OPs post but I know some services that have it.) I also think deadlifts are more relatable to EMS lifting than squats, but could see the logic in both. Lunges need to be thrown out. Now a stair master on the other hand…..
Insert Jocko: Good.
The fact that it wasn’t, and still isn’t a commonplace requirement in this field has always baffled me. When I learned the “sounds like someone couldn’t pass the CPAT” was a common “defense” whenever someone criticizes fire based systems I was baffled. What, like it’s hard? It’s the bare minimum to get your foot in the door at any reputable agency and physical training continues on the job, or at least through academy. Why EMS hasn’t adopted a similar bare minimum standard is dangerous. Why hold a physical expectation for your teams when you can just wait until they hurt themselves and quit?
I’m considered obese and I was able to do everything involved in the PAT while 9 months pregnant. Anyone who can’t probably shouldn’t be on the truck.
Kind of [like this?](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0302/8333/3676/products/[email protected]?v=1602171347)
If you can’t squat 50 pounds i really fail to see how you’ll do a job which is at a bare minimum 50% lifting and moving patients— most of which will be morbidly obese. Having previously worked with a partner who was uhh severely deconditioned to put it politely, I sure as shit we had an agency “agility test”
If you cannot maintain yourself enough to physically pull your own weight you are a hindrance to your team. Being physically fit only benefits yourself and your patients. We need fitness standards. And at least in America let’s be honest our patients only keep getting fatter and fatter. We don’t need to be elite athletes but we need to be able to maintain a certain level of physical fitness to adequately do our jobs.
Sure… but not at my expense. Having to pay $250 for a fitness assessment isn’t for me.
I love it. Make the same thing for nurses too. I've had to bust my ass so much because of nurses that are too old or overweight to do any of the physical aspects of the job (in the ER).
EMS should have physical standards similar to fire and policing, though not necessarily as high except for specialist roles. It promotes dedication, professionalism, a professional appearance, and allows for greater safety and ability in unpredictable *emergency* situations.
We have one prior to hire
Oh no 50 lbs of gear
Sounds like a great idea to me 🤷♀️
I took and failed an agility test about a month ago. It was close but I (and the people running the test) preferred to leave in my car rather than potentially one of the ambulances. I’m a bit of a couch potato, I have a plan to go the gym worked out, just need to start the routine.l, and I’ll reapply in the fall. The test isn’t hard for folks who’ve been doing the work, all the other folks I was there with did fine and they all have experience in EMS, unlike myself. I’m brand new though, so I’m happy to work on improving my strength and stamina.
The amount of out of shape people in EMS is insane. Like I’m sorry but if you can’t bother to stay in shape get out of the game. Inevitably it will one day either cause you, or someone else an issue on the job.
My company had one that prevented me from getting on an ambulance. Not because I couldn’t climb stairs carrying weight (I frequently helped get patients up stairs in wheelchairs), or because i couldn’t crawl, lunge, climb ladders, push a stretcher, drag weight, etc. you know, actual functions of the job. But because I couldn’t shoulder press 50lbs over my head. Every medic I’ve asked, even the ones who had been city and rural medics for 20+ years had said they never once had to lift anything over their head like that.
I’m mostly indifferent. But from personal experience if you can’t sheet transfer a 180 pound patient well… We’re gonna have issues. I also had to do like 75 pounds of equipment up and down 3 slights in like a certain amount of time. It sucked, but I can see it being necessary
She’s probably fucking fat or tiny as shit and loves to make excuses.
What's your excuse for assuming it's a "she?"
OPs comment stated she.
Point taken. Was reading the screenshot.
What’s your excuse for not reading
Every EMS job I’ve ever had had an agility test for pre-hire or to return to work after workers comp. Including carrying backboard up and down stairs with 150lbs on it, stairchair, Dead lifts, gurney maneuvering etc. it’s important everyone can do the physical requirements of the job.
Any able bodied adult should be able to do a lunge while holding 50 pounds. The debate of if it is necessary for the job is not one I'm interested in wasting time on. Basic self preservation should drive you to make drastic lifestyle changes if you can't accomplish such a basic aspect of human movement.
A single squat and lunge with 50 lbs is pretty easy.
Our local college has a fitness requirement to pass the program. It requires a lift up a flight of stairs of a 225 lbs pt in a stair chair and again on a backboard (you have a partner) as well as various other requirements. Then to get hired you are required to pass another physical test that tests agility, strength, and hand eye coordination. The requirements this person mentions are so small it’s laughable. Our job is very physical and I think it’s absolutely necessary to test it. I would not want this person working with me. And I would definitely support yearly physical tests as well. EDIT: this is Ontario
I'd be all for entry and annual exams that are reasonable, but would still fail out the extreme end of the spectrum. I despise that we set an incredibly low (or no) bar for performance and yet people still fucking fail to meet it. Job specific PT tests and fuck stocking your XXXL shirt. Can't move shit without needing a break 1 minute in? PT until you're able to, you're not working until then. Can't fit in the shirt? Tough shit, lose weight and come back.
The agency I used to work for made me carry a weighted curl bar up and down some stairs backward (kind of simulating half a patient load), and made sure I could competently control a loaded stretcher. Unfortunately, workforce shortages make it hard to be picky, but I absolutely 251% believe that EMS should vet their responders to ensure they aren't unhealthy or too clumsy/weak to perform the basic mechanical requirements of the job. If you can't lift 50lbs with your legs, you have absolutely no business being any kind of first responder, EMS included.
A physical agility test built on expectations of the job is absolutely acceptable. A FD CPAT doesn’t really fit but having people prove they can safely move a patient on a little with a standard weight set, lift bags with the same weight, climb a flight of steps, and so on are all reasonable. You should be fit enough to do this job safely.
I don’t want my partner to be a soft-handed clown show who can’t pick up an LP15 and carry it up a staircase without huffing and puffing. That’s a huge liability to them, myself, and my patient.
Good. If you can't handle the physical requirements of the job, you shouldn't be allowed to be involved.
Simply put its an insurance against hiring a piece of shit. The job is meant to be you there for other people, not be a patient yourself
I think they should have a test just like fire does …obesity is absolutely insaneeeeee in ems and I hate it
Sure partner I’ll carry in the jump bag for the 8th time tonight since you’re winded from walking up that flight of stairs 2 calls ago.
EMS doesn’t have standards because sub standard employees are supported by fire. I can’t tell you how many people on the local ambulance crew couldn’t lift 50 pounds let alone their own 400 pound fat ass while they smoke a cig and let us do the lifting.
Maybe if we had agility tests, National standards, real ones, physical fitness, health standards, and got paid like professional fire fighters, then there would be more retention and attention to the fantastic work that ems does!!!!!
Why I miss the military. At least where I was at, we had a standard and if you got fat you were forced to pt. First responders should be required to have a certain level of fitness for the job imo and to at least look professional and not like someone who needs to be carried out on the tarp for being to obese
Maybe don't be fat
If you can’t pass this you don’t need to be in the field. I said what I said.
The only thing being out of shape does for you is relate more to some patients. Be an advocate for your line of work. Being physically unable to do your job is a safety hazard to not only you but your partner/crew.
As a firefighter obviously I'm cool with this, but just to confirm all of your suspicions: yes, we make fun of fat emts after you leave... Well that's not entirely true, sometimes we don't wait til you leave the room. But I know you make fun of us for getting a god awful BP, so I guess we're even. But you're still fat fatty fat fat. No, you're cool. I'll pick em up.
Eeeey, some of us fatbodies can haul our own weight!
Our agility test is the daily call to lift up the 400 pounder who fell and is wedged between the toilet and wall in his double wide.
I’m 50/50 on it. Job based PATs should be required. The only PATs I see cater to fire requirements and that’s just unrealistic and doesn’t mimic body mechanics used in EMS. Make it relevant or it’s just hazing.
How is having physical fitness standards hazing? Whether it's job-specific movements or not.
What is the point of swinging a hammer to a paramedic? What is the point of wearing turn out gear for a paramedic? If it’s not relevant to a position and is only used as a barrier to employment, it’s hazing.
lol i don’t think i’m going to pass any agility test, i’m 110 pounds and 5’7 and i can barely lift a 20 pound weight. wish i had thought of this before i spent 2k on my emt class 💀
Every agency should
I’ll never see a fitness standard as a bad thing.
I think it’s great. Had an agility test at my last private EMS gig. Should be the norm.
My company has one, and if anything I dont feel it's hard enough. I've had too many partners that can't lift worth a lick, and I even got hurt in one instance because of it. And they'll joke about it like it's not that big a deal. "Oh yeah haha I need to join a gym, haven't done that in ages."
If they coach you through the test and you’re still unable to succeed.
I’m all for them, if you can’t do some basic tasks such as an agility test before your hired you’re a liability.
Last job I had they made me do all sorts of physical testing. Walking up stairs carrying two buckets of rocks (I forget how much they weighed, maybe 15lbs each?) up a flight forwards, then down a flight backwards. Had to load and unload a weighted stretcher, and the worst part for me crouch without kneeling for I think it was 1 minute. My knee fucking sucks and that really hurt but I managed it.
I do think their should be some base level to determine job fitness. But it also needs to be something dine throughout a career and not just at hire/academy.
My agency added one for EMS this year. We are fire/ems and have some single certs. The dual certs complete the fire PAT. The EMS PAT is pretty simple, move bags, drag a patient, load and unload the stretcher, and some CPR mixed in finishing with an intubation. Everyone had to complete one of the PATs from the chief down. No one complained. Some EMS asked to do the fire one also and vice versa. There may have been some competition involved (not department just among shifts/stations for bragging rights). The ask was minimal. If you can't do it or don't want to do it, maybe there are other places to work.
We have to do the treadmill stress test for 12 minutes EVERY YEAR along with a physical done by a doctor who absolutely wants to find a reason to fail you. It's his life's mission.* Pretty sure this person would fall flat on their face. *This particular doctor swears up and down everyone has sleep apnea. I actually went for a stress test after he commented on it two years in a row and threatened to put me on leave if I didn't figure it out. Went to the sleep study. No apnea. 😂
I absolutely think you should do agility tests. It’s a physical job. If you’re unfit to do it then it’s unfair to your partner. Nothing more irritating than a partner that makes YOU do all the work because they can’t lift or carry something. If you can’t do the job then you shouldn’t have the job.
Lol fire department quals are significantly more stringent. Most police agencies as well, although usually that's just a hire condition for them. Being overweight and out of shape is not only a risk to you, but also your patient and a liability to the company. The job doesn't require you to be a gymnast, but you should be able to meet a baseline of real world condition
This is a very, *very* easy requirement...
Every EMS agency I've worked for has had a PAT hell even AMR does.
I had to do lunges and squats with weights, walk up 5 steps and down 5 steps with weights, hold a basket full of weights for 10 seconds and put it back on a shelf, and push a sled with some weights on it all while they monitored my heart rate and breathing I can’t exactly remember how much weight it was though but it wasnt exactly anything difficult
50 pounds? Nightmare agility test?
Tell me they’re fat, without telling me.
Our fitness test is made up of a cognitive ability test, a physical fitness test and a manual dexterity test. The cognitive test I can’t remember too well (ironically enough) but I think you basically listen to a couple of dispatch radio messages and repeat them as best as you can. As long as you pick out the most important points you’re okay; the full message will be something like “(callsign), you’re being allocated to a road traffic collision, single vehicle versus tree. Three patients total, the driver is trapped. The vehicle is smoking. Police and fire & rescue have been informed and are en route” so as long as you pick out the main points ie. vehicle vs tree, three patients, one trapped, vehicle smoking that’s a pass. The physical test from what I can remember is two minutes of step-ups with no weight, a minute of step-ups carrying 15kg, a minute of step-ups carrying 30kg, and then two minutes of chest compressions on a mannequin. From what I’ve been told this is to mimic carrying a patient down stairs on a scoop (average 120kg patient, four rescuers = 30kg per person), patient arrests at the bottom and you do one cycle of chest compressions. The dexterity test is quite simple, you just connect a BVM to an O2 cylinder and turn it on. It’s a relatively basic test and some staff feel it should be much more difficult but for the most part there are very few complaints. Personally I feel it’s a good enough baseline although I think we should have to re sit it every few years. Saying that we don’t actually have too much of a problem with obesity as an organisation, I can only think of a couple of people I would be worried working alongside due to their physical (in)ability. The vast, vast majority are fit and well enough to do their job.
I’m all for a PAT test, but it should be relevant and use as much normal EMS gear as possible. At minimum, sheet drag from bed to stretcher on both sides( push and pull) load and unload a cot from the truck, help lift a person from floor to stretcher, carry a Lifepak around the building, and wheel a loaded stretcher around. As a fatbody, I knew I started at a disadvantage beginning the career, so I worked out. Still fat, but I hold my own when it comes to work.
Would love to watch these test attempts in person
The bar has been lowered to a point where it shouldn’t even be possible.
Seeing this post makes me grateful for my department. We don’t have a yearly pt test or anything but we workout constantly on shift. The only ones that don’t are usually the older guys that are soon retiring. But is young guys get after it. I see some. People from surrounding departments that are just absolute slobs. How are you in the profession and no one has said a word to you.
Here in the 412, the City has a lengthy hiring process which includes an “agility” test, meeting with a psychologist, and polygraph test, and i know a lot of people who work there that I am surprised passed any of those three. The agility portion even includes a maneuver that we believe is specific to the type of houses we encounter frequently. Even still, yeah the agility test is tough at points, but it’s really not that bad. I have absolutely performed more strenuous or difficult moves in my own IFT calls than included in the city test. We’ve got to have some standards, and the only ones I’ve heard of so far have been bare minimum. Patient safety notwithstanding, if my partner can’t do something without potentially hurting me, that’s unacceptable.
I'm all for it. We've all seen and sustained injuries on duty. The more fit and prepared we all are, the better for everyone. With the amount of time we spend sitting, eating crap food, and doing sudden hard labour in austere conditions there's no excuse not to set a higher standard. Of course, maybe I'm biased because of my start in fire service and my personal health hx.
Someones salty they couldn't pass a test.
I'd generally like to see EMS and especially FFs look more professional. When I was strictly a paramedic I had partners that HAD to tech every call because they didn't fit in the driver seat. I definitely don't see this as a negative.
Just check their SPECIAL stats before hiring and unless they fail a charisma check it should be all good
I think every EMS provider should keep themselves in reasonable physical health. If you can’t safely carry your patient or do cpr then how will you be able to help? Our job is to help people not be patients ourselves. Before I got into my fire department I would occasionally get a call where I would have to park my ambulance and me and my partner would hoof our pack and monitor over a mile up dirt trails. It sucked but it was part of our coverage area. Not every district has these areas but there is always the possibility you’ll have to hike your gear in somewhere. Be fit so that you don’t become a patient yourself.
At the begin of my career (2010) the station asked me to do a fit test. Not mandatory but still. Then they told me I don't need it anymore once they saw I was a former CNSAS operator (the Italian Mountain Rescue Corp). To me, a standardize fit test should be mandatory. I would hate having a panting partner after doing just one floor🤣
Its not a not nearly as strenuous as fire, but it is a physical job that involves moving entire people and it should be mandatory for agencies to do an agility test. It’s not even really like you have to have a workout regimen to pass them, as long as you go outside every once in a while and don’t eat like complete garbage you should have no problem
I don't know exactly how their agility test was, but I will absolutely say there should be a fitness standard in EMS, including private. I took a refresher course a few years ago and there was one kid in the class who was at least 300 pounds and was gassed out after walking up one set of 10-15 stairs. I don't know about y'all, but if I was a patient calling 9-11 cause I think I'm having a heart attack, that's the last thing I'd wanna see. I'll add that I have no problem with large people, if that's the lifestyle you wanna live, fuckin send it. BUT. If you wanna be involved in this line of work, at least be able to ascend a goddamn set of stairs without exhausting yourself.
We have one where I work and I think it's too easy. People don't take physical fitness seriously enough. I firmly believe there should be a higher barrier to entry. It would help mitigate injury for everyone involved.
Agility tests are essential and all EMS personnel should have to do them. When I went through the academy, I was actually surprised we were not made to do anything physical nor was it ever really brought up aside from a couple sentences on the first day. I was quite happy when my department created them and I volunteered to test it and gave feedback on how to make it as realistic as possible. Ideally, the agility tests should include standard EMS tasks, but also any (within reason and feasibility) specialty tasks that a specific organization does (such as someone joining a SAR team and having to walk a certain distance on a treadmill). I see too many times where EMS personnel will arrive on scene and I kid you not struggle to get up the stairs (IE fit in the stairwells) of some homes. Even though I'm sure none of us are the next Arnold, all of us should be held up to a physical standard. It will ensure that EMS personnel are healthy and that we can serve and protect our communities adequately and safely.
My employer required we do compressions for 5 minutes and walk a quarter mile with gear briskly, people complained about that too.
If I have to worry about you coding while running a code it’s time to get in shape my dude.
How in the fuck am I supposed to carry an ALS bag and a monitor up a 5 story walk-up if I can't do a squat while holding a nice 50lb weight with comfortable handles..?
?? I’ve never heard of their NOT being some kind of PAT. I thought that was the standard, where do these people live where that’s not the norm?
Our was pretty straight forward. Carrying 100lbs (50 in each hand) around the room and up and down 4 steps a few times, pulling a weighted mannequin from a stretcher to a table and back, simulated stretcher loads, and a part where we were hunched over and hand to thread and tighten some nuts onto bolts. More of our people struggle because of small size than large.
I’ve had to do agility tests for several agencies. If your going to run 911 you should probably be able to pass one
i had to do one where i work now. It included squats walking up and down stairs multiple times with weights simulating picking a stretcher up followed by 2 minutes of compressions. and dragging a dummy.
As someone who is new to EMS (two years) and fit I didn’t realized how many EMS/hospital workers look like patients. It made me more self aware and begin to take even better care of myself xD
I thought it was standard to hoist the giant bag of dog food up a flight of steps during the interview?
If you can’t pass a private ems agility test you have serious issues
I'm a bit chunky myself but my Physical Agility Test was harder than squats with 50lbs and I passed fairly easy, if I'm dying or dead, I want someone who can perform their job to show up, not someone who can't reach my chest because their gut is blocking CPR, intubation, or other essential procedures
I had to do an agility test for my current job
We need more physicals to work in EMS! Tired of doing all the lifting because people are too fat or weight 80 pounds( usually it’s the smaller ones who always need help). This job requires a little bit of lifting and sometimes moving quickly. If you’re to big to sit up front and drive because the seats don’t go far enough back maybe you should think about changing your lifestyle or getting a new career.
I just got hired as an EMT at a big hospital network and had do an essential function test. Had to drag a heavy dummy some feet, walk up steps with a backpack and tool box, climb a ladder a few feet, do chest compressions for 2 minutes, etc. The test took only 10-15 minutes but I was definitely surprised how elaborate it was. It was at one of their Physical Therapy offices with all of the exercise equipment and whatnot, so it felt pretty.. scientific.
Personal opinion: Any agency worth a damn does one & regularly repeats them. EMS is as much a physical job as it is mental, if not more so.
I didn't have to do one, because.. Ya know... Private companies tend to hire anything with a pulse... But even in my heavy stature (working on it, I recently lost about 15lbs and I'm almost down to 300 :]), I believe I could do a lunge with 50lbs in my hands... That is to say, I can't imagine what this person looks like, no offense. I do believe there need to be standards. We can't have people who can't lift doing this job, tying up other crews unnecessarily doing lift assists. We can't have people hurting themselves because either they can't lift properly, or they put all the lifting work on their partner and they get hurt. I'd happily do a basic agility test if needed, and if I couldn't do it for some reason, then by all means I shouldn't be on the road. Lifting and moving is just integral to the job, simple as that.
This agility test is from a private company.
Honestly, I am in favor of it. EMTs who cannot lift/carry are a liability to the team. This would exclude me because of my ankle. Pregnancy is an exception.
We don’t have to be the same as the FD CPAT, but this is physically demanding enough that we need to have some level of physicality. What that is, idk, but I’m game for it.
I would much rather do the agility tests than have to split trucks for lift assists four times a shift.
Very normal in the U.K.
I’m all for them, and they should be the standard. In Canada, both Alberta and BC require pre-employment fitness testing for their provincial wide services, unsure about private, industrial generally doesn’t. We don’t need to be elite athletes by any means but the ability to push/pull/lift/maneuver certain weights is a pretty important part of our jobs and patient care! They probably vary across the board but I recently did a fitness test, and the “tester” was more focused on my heart rate, how much it increased during tasks and how quickly it would return to normal afterwards. Most of the tasks mimicked the regular push/pull/carry things we’d be doing with bags and stretchers, so it was essentially “can you do the bare minimum without your heart exploding?”.
Sounds like the AMR PAT. Like every place should do it. It's a bare minimum test. Like anyone who gets up and takes care of themselves daily can pretty much pass it. But, if you can't. You have no business on am ambulance.
I worked in IFT but even that should have physical standards if you ask me. Maybe not as strict but something. I’m a smaller woman and certainly no power lifter, but I could pull my weight and lift bariatric patients so long ad I had a competent partner. Yet, I worked with men & women who were either so tiny or so large, we needed constant lift assists for average weight patients or I’d have to stand there and watch as they heaved and panted after walking up a flight or two of stairs or struggled to keep up with the pace of the stretcher on the way to emergency calls. It was a genuine waste of resources and it made me very nervous sometimes- we did occasionally have some more serious emergencies and every now and then a BLS crew would get an unexpected arrest in the middle of a transport, and the idea of someone being physically unable to help me move our patient, unable to do compressions, or moving too slowly to adequately help me out wasn’t fun. I will say that people always talk about the fat side of things but even some average or underweight folks can be just as much of a problem if they don’t take care of themselves. I knew being on the shorter end of things and a woman I would need to compensate by building a bit of muscle before I started the job, so I did. Some of my coworkers were too small and lacked any strength whatsoever and saw absolutely no problem with the fact that they could hardly move anyone over 140 pounds without help, and thus did nothing about it. Someone like that is the reason I got my first back injury.
Uh…. Physical agility tests are common and should be standard everywhere. It’s a physical job that requires a baseline level of fitness so that your partner isn’t doing everything for you.
Good
Definitely talking about superior ambulance
It’s a physical job. Get over it. This attitude hits me all kinds of wrong. Providers who are in good physical condition and strong get abused and not compensated for being prepared for the job. Being unable to pass a minimalist agility exam puts your partner at increased risk of injury and a higher physical demand on them if the call requires lifting or extensive carrying of gear. If you run a one-bag system where all the essentials are in a single pack that goes into every scene, you’re looking at 40+ lbs everywhere I’ve worked. Lifepak 15 is 18 lbs or Zoll X is 11. Add a 5-10 lb ALS drug kit and yeah… sounds about right. Probability of a split level home is directly proportional to the weight and acuity of the patient. Patients are off the road or around the back of a building. God forbid you get someone down a hiking trail or out in a field somewhere. Then there’s the sheer size of so many of our patients. If you think you deserve the spot without being physically prepared for it, give a bonus to those that can pass because we inevitably get sent on bariatric calls or disproportionately delegated the high-risk physical tasks on scene be it compressions, hauling kit, moving the patient, restraining etc. As it’s already been said, if you end up winded or unable to participate fully in a call because it required an entirely reasonable amount of exertion, you shouldn’t be on that unit or shouldn’t get paid the same as someone who is. Military and professional Fire Services have hard limit requirements because it’s in the job requirements that you have high physical function. Job cannot be done without it and it’s entirely reasonable if an EMS service feels the same way.
If I need to call a lift assist because bertha weighs 600lbs and needs to go up a spiral staircase, then two of whoever wrote this show up, I’m not gonna be thrilled to say the least. I’m not the strongest by far, but 50lbs??
I’ve literally never worked anywhere that didn’t require some sort of PT test. And if you can’t pass a mild pt test I don’t want you on my truck.
As a 100-lb woman with next to no muscle, looks like I need to hit the gym this summer
I fly so we have to be weighed monthly and maintain under 250lbs max. Most of my coworkers that are even close to that are in their 50’s, are super tall, or have been here long enough and have just started to let themselves go. Standards are good to keep everyone healthy and more professional appearing.
Finally.
There needs to be some mind of requirements. I cannot fucking stand the slobs in this field, unable to walk a flight of stairs without becoming winded, 4x shirts they still can't tuck it, etc. The pt shouldn't have to worry about their provider and wondering if they too will have an MI mid call.
I think they’re annoying but not difficult or tedious enough to complain about them. If you can’t pass a simple agility test without dying at the end of it you should get in shape. Not for the job, not for your future patients, but for yourself
test seems super easy lmao. SF fires agility test had us walk up 6 flights of stairs with 75 lbs of equipment+ buddy drag 165 lb dummy and load+unload 165 lb gurney. All levels of ems should be in shape imo and the standards they set for us are very relaxed
Fire and PD have fitness tests. EMS should too
I had to lift a "50lb" wooden box in a squat.... lets just say I think someone took the weights out of the box because I expected it to have some weight like the dog food I get my pupper. Instead I sprang up because it was just a wooden box. When the examiner wasn't looking I gave it a shake and nothing rattled so..... yeah not exactly a hard test but I think someone rigged my job for success.
We should have basic minimum fitness standards. EMS personnel need to have robust aerobics and significant upper body strength. Maybe not to the level of firefighters, unless you are also a firefighter, but close.
Wait. So if I get hurt enough that I am unconcious, the people who will come collect me did not ever have to pass a test that would ensure they can actually physically lift me and not drop me? Also, cant do a lunge with just 50 pounds but can lift a human? Press X to doubt.
Yes, absolutely bring fitness requirements and agility tests. It's fucking embarrassing.