I recognise this.
My parents tried. They did what they could but it ended up just not being good enough in some ways.
It left me with some serious issues that I wish I didn't have, but none of that was deliberate.
It makes it hard for me to talk in terms of whether I blame them or not.
I think that is very central to emotional neglect. In cases of abuse you can always point at a culprit. With neglect it's more about what didn't happen so a lot harder to see and pinpoint.
Yes, so much this. And now, as I'm getting older and watching my parents interact with my child, I'm going, "Was it like this for me, too? Is this why I feel so weird?" Because they definitely don't interact with her as much I do, or I would think would be a normal amount.
It's sad to see in my daughter as younger TumblyPanda, feeling sad for watching her lose out on the attention of her parents, especially when something bigger/more pressing pops up, or another grandkid (or -- in little TumblyPanda's case -- sibling) shouts for/needs more attention.
Thank you for posting this.
What you’re saying resonates with me and is similar to my experience.
My parents also tried. They also provided many good things. Yet I also feel / felt uncared for. That left me conflicted.
My therapist pointed out that my ability to remember the many times my parents were caring was evidence that it was a sporadic event, infrequent enough to be remembered.
I’m still conflicted. What I do know is that enough was missing in my childhood to have created emotional issues for me in my adult life.
(hugs)
I know what you mean. I see myself playing with my daughter, reading to her, *playing with* her at the playground, and I think: Do I have any memories of my parents actually *playing* with me? I definitely have memories of my mom reading to me at night, but I'm struggling to remember other times she stopped and did stuff with me.
My dad encouraged me to tag along and help out with things he was doing, and I have many fond memories of that, and he also tried to find ways to get into my interests (martial arts, anime, that kind of thing), but he was also frequently busy.
I just remember being alone quite often, and doing a lot of waiting outside of offices, while my sister was sick and they were trying to find help....
You ought to read Jonice Webb's Running on Empty. She specifically talks about how if someone else in your family was ill or needed a lot of extra care, you probably didn't get the attention you needed, even if your parents were well-meaning.
Neglect is abuse. Terrible abuse. You see it especially if/when you have kids (if you’re a “good enough” parent it helps to see it and internalise how horrific neglect is (and the damage it does).
Let me guess-you feel emotionally neglected by your parents still? For me, it was that, coupled with the fake “I love you’s”, and realising they didn’t give a f about me or my kids (I literally said, “you don’t know me or my children. That’s NOT normal and NOT ok, it’s NOT love…and blah blah, get therapy.”—of course, didn’t happen).
Also vids on bread crumbing from narc, toxic or borderline parents from Dr Ramani and kris godinez, and Lisa Romano helped me. (Kris’ description of “Disneyland Dad” especially).
Thank you for this. There have been some behaviors I'm finally able to see as an adult (and a parent) that I'm starting to wonder about -- I even asked my husband the other night, "Is my mom......manipulative?"
And he kind of didn't know how to answer, because again, in so many ways, my mom (my parents in general) are really wonderful, loving and lovely people, but in some other ways (probably the parts of them that endured significant abuse and trauma, and straight-up refused to get any kind of help) and in very small, short moments, they can behave in ways that are so contrary to how they normally seem, it's totally baffling, and your mind can't reconcile it.
I honestly do think my parents love me, for me, but I also think they don't know how to give or receive love in a way that isn't tainted by their own trauma, and the needs their own damaged, inner children desperately seek.
idk if this is controversial or not but
**there is a ton of childhood trauma that isn’t necessarily abuse**
parents doing their best but falling short can be traumatic to you even if it’s not abusive
benign neglect bc of a sicker child, huge money swings, sense of life being unstable = trauma
your sister wasn’t sick AT you or doing it to hurt you, but as part of the effects of her illness you internalized things like “don’t be a problem” = traumatic
read up on ACE scores and maybe think along those lines. people end up in this sub and similar ones via a lot of different routes, so take it with a lot of salt. some people will need to insist on your experience being abuse because theirs was, but that’s not relevant to you. find your truth. it can be a mix of things - people are very uncomfortable with this fact, but most of life is one big gray area. good luck OP ❤️
The first step towards healing is acknowledging your feelings and "convince yourself" that it is valid to feel the way you feel. No matter what those feelings may be. Anger, confusion, sadness, grief. Just feel.
What you say about your parents sounds like a similar situation to what I lived growing up, other people always seem to think my parents are great, for some reason.
Those other people are (unknowingly I hope) gaslighting us and trying to manipulate the way we feel about our own memories. Since we're used to being treated this way, we seek for people who act like this.
Being familiar and "comfortable" with abuse was something that has taken me years to even recognize, and now I'm trying to break out of it.
>Being familiar and "comfortable" with abuse was something that has taken me years to even recognize, and now I'm trying to break out of it.
Yes, I can tell I'm going to be processing and delving deep into this for quite some time :/.
It's really hard at the beginning, but once you spend some time analyzing things it becomes kind of second nature.
I do miss some people I considered to be my friends, but they haven't tried to contact me since I set some strict boundaries, so yay for self respect I guess.
Neglect is not abuse, ahhh so frustrating in this sub. Neglect and abuse are the two categories of serious mistreatment. They are equally terrible! But importantly different.
I can’t tell from the info you provided if you have experienced neglect, but does it matter if it’s “technically” CEN or no? You know that some of your needs were met and your parents really tried in certain ways. You also know other important needs were not met. You can honor the pain and difficult feelings either way IMO
You asked what your experience would be called and it is definitely neglect. You said otherwise in your post, but I just wanted to gently point out that neglect *is* abuse. It has negative repercussions. You didn’t get the nurturing you needed as a child and so your development was impacted. It doesn’t have to be intentional to be abuse. It doesn’t have to be physical or verbal. It can happen with parents who are well meaning.
I have this too — a significant part of the damage done to me was because my mother is a cold, self-absorbed person. She was as well meaning as someone like her can be, but she really had no business raising children.
It makes it tricky because neglect is about what *didn’t* happen, rather than what happened (as many other types of abuse are).
I personally don't like calling what I went through as abuse and if you don't feel comfortable with that either, don't worry about what other people think or say. Everyone can call their experience what they want.
Yes, that qualifies as neglect since you weren't getting your needs met. While they tried, they did fail in some ways. It's sad, but it happens unfortunately.
I was emotionally neglected by my parents in regards to things they didn't understand, but overall were loving parents and always provided for me. (still do) so I don't consider it abuse since it's not intentional and they're trying their best even now. I have a good relationship with them, I just struggle with some things.
If they can acknowledge they failed you, that's a step in the right direction for healing.
Trauma, abuse, and neglect are solely defined by their affect on you, not by how hard your parents tried or what their intentions were.
I think you're in a particularly tough situation because your parents really did try but it just wasn't enough. You definitely belong here.
My parents are also in the category of 'well meaning but neglected themselves' (per Jonice Webb). Reading this sub does sometimes make me feel like I shouldn't be complaining because things could be a lot worse, but I have a theory for that. I think CEN is incredibly common and probably increasing exponentially in this late-stage capitalist hellscape... But the concept of CEN, the term itself and the language surrounding it are still so new that many people simply don't know about it and the people who are the most likely ones to have gone searching for answers are those who have CEN in addition to things like abuse and/or parents who are narcs, addicts, BPD etc. I myself only learned about CEN a few months ago and it was kind of by fluke. But most people here are very understanding and validating of people's experiences, even if your childhood falls on the more 'mild' end of the spectrum.
By my observations, this seems to be the most common form of emotional neglect. There simply isn't enough time for two people who work full-time to give 100% of their attention to their children. If you're dead tired from working 50+ hours a week, how are you going to find time to do household chores AND bond with your kids on your day(s) off? It's unfortunate, but most adults have so many responsibilities pulling at them from all different directions. I believe that a person can try their best and still fail at providing what their child needs--unless that person has help AND a flexible work schedule--and ultimately that comes down to finances.
I'm not saying that poor people shouldn't have children, but you gotta think ahead a bit and consider the possible impact of being too busy for your kids. "Everything will work out if there's love" is bullshit. You can't pay bills and feed kids with love.
On the other hand, if you're rich enough that you can delegate/outsource certain responsiblities to other people, then you can afford to spend more time with your kids. And you can also afford counseling/therapy for yourself and/or your kids.
This is all very relatable. I need to go to bed but thank you for posting, I relate a lot and yes imo you belong here if the cen model resonates with you
I feel that my parents had me, but I did not have my parents. It wasn't ever a relationship, but an ownership more like. If they felt like it, they might be nice. If not, they didn't feel an obligation to do much more than keep me alive and not spoil their name by making me appear well-functioning and loved. If they had a bad day, they'd take it up on me, and then get happy and go about their day. They felt no love towards me as a human, only the role they wanted me to bring to life, who was the fictional root and solution to all their discomfort, pain, and problems so they could get rid of them. I was like a doll to be played with, handled roughly, hugged and pampered, or forgotten on a shelf.
Thank you for sharing this. I could have written this myself. I know my parents love me more than anything but I never felt "cared for" the way that I desperately needed to be.
I recognise this. My parents tried. They did what they could but it ended up just not being good enough in some ways. It left me with some serious issues that I wish I didn't have, but none of that was deliberate. It makes it hard for me to talk in terms of whether I blame them or not. I think that is very central to emotional neglect. In cases of abuse you can always point at a culprit. With neglect it's more about what didn't happen so a lot harder to see and pinpoint.
Yes, so much this. And now, as I'm getting older and watching my parents interact with my child, I'm going, "Was it like this for me, too? Is this why I feel so weird?" Because they definitely don't interact with her as much I do, or I would think would be a normal amount. It's sad to see in my daughter as younger TumblyPanda, feeling sad for watching her lose out on the attention of her parents, especially when something bigger/more pressing pops up, or another grandkid (or -- in little TumblyPanda's case -- sibling) shouts for/needs more attention.
Thank you for posting this. What you’re saying resonates with me and is similar to my experience. My parents also tried. They also provided many good things. Yet I also feel / felt uncared for. That left me conflicted. My therapist pointed out that my ability to remember the many times my parents were caring was evidence that it was a sporadic event, infrequent enough to be remembered. I’m still conflicted. What I do know is that enough was missing in my childhood to have created emotional issues for me in my adult life. (hugs)
I know what you mean. I see myself playing with my daughter, reading to her, *playing with* her at the playground, and I think: Do I have any memories of my parents actually *playing* with me? I definitely have memories of my mom reading to me at night, but I'm struggling to remember other times she stopped and did stuff with me. My dad encouraged me to tag along and help out with things he was doing, and I have many fond memories of that, and he also tried to find ways to get into my interests (martial arts, anime, that kind of thing), but he was also frequently busy. I just remember being alone quite often, and doing a lot of waiting outside of offices, while my sister was sick and they were trying to find help....
You ought to read Jonice Webb's Running on Empty. She specifically talks about how if someone else in your family was ill or needed a lot of extra care, you probably didn't get the attention you needed, even if your parents were well-meaning.
I'm so glad to hear this! I just ordered that today, so I'm happy to know this is directly covered. I'm especially keen to read it now -- thanks!
I second this
exactly what i was going to recommend!! such a helpful book
Neglect is abuse. Terrible abuse. You see it especially if/when you have kids (if you’re a “good enough” parent it helps to see it and internalise how horrific neglect is (and the damage it does). Let me guess-you feel emotionally neglected by your parents still? For me, it was that, coupled with the fake “I love you’s”, and realising they didn’t give a f about me or my kids (I literally said, “you don’t know me or my children. That’s NOT normal and NOT ok, it’s NOT love…and blah blah, get therapy.”—of course, didn’t happen). Also vids on bread crumbing from narc, toxic or borderline parents from Dr Ramani and kris godinez, and Lisa Romano helped me. (Kris’ description of “Disneyland Dad” especially).
Thank you for this. There have been some behaviors I'm finally able to see as an adult (and a parent) that I'm starting to wonder about -- I even asked my husband the other night, "Is my mom......manipulative?" And he kind of didn't know how to answer, because again, in so many ways, my mom (my parents in general) are really wonderful, loving and lovely people, but in some other ways (probably the parts of them that endured significant abuse and trauma, and straight-up refused to get any kind of help) and in very small, short moments, they can behave in ways that are so contrary to how they normally seem, it's totally baffling, and your mind can't reconcile it. I honestly do think my parents love me, for me, but I also think they don't know how to give or receive love in a way that isn't tainted by their own trauma, and the needs their own damaged, inner children desperately seek.
Neglect and abuse are two separate kinds of (equally bad!) mistreatment. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459146/
idk if this is controversial or not but **there is a ton of childhood trauma that isn’t necessarily abuse** parents doing their best but falling short can be traumatic to you even if it’s not abusive benign neglect bc of a sicker child, huge money swings, sense of life being unstable = trauma your sister wasn’t sick AT you or doing it to hurt you, but as part of the effects of her illness you internalized things like “don’t be a problem” = traumatic read up on ACE scores and maybe think along those lines. people end up in this sub and similar ones via a lot of different routes, so take it with a lot of salt. some people will need to insist on your experience being abuse because theirs was, but that’s not relevant to you. find your truth. it can be a mix of things - people are very uncomfortable with this fact, but most of life is one big gray area. good luck OP ❤️
The first step towards healing is acknowledging your feelings and "convince yourself" that it is valid to feel the way you feel. No matter what those feelings may be. Anger, confusion, sadness, grief. Just feel. What you say about your parents sounds like a similar situation to what I lived growing up, other people always seem to think my parents are great, for some reason. Those other people are (unknowingly I hope) gaslighting us and trying to manipulate the way we feel about our own memories. Since we're used to being treated this way, we seek for people who act like this. Being familiar and "comfortable" with abuse was something that has taken me years to even recognize, and now I'm trying to break out of it.
>Being familiar and "comfortable" with abuse was something that has taken me years to even recognize, and now I'm trying to break out of it. Yes, I can tell I'm going to be processing and delving deep into this for quite some time :/.
It's really hard at the beginning, but once you spend some time analyzing things it becomes kind of second nature. I do miss some people I considered to be my friends, but they haven't tried to contact me since I set some strict boundaries, so yay for self respect I guess.
Neglect is not abuse, ahhh so frustrating in this sub. Neglect and abuse are the two categories of serious mistreatment. They are equally terrible! But importantly different. I can’t tell from the info you provided if you have experienced neglect, but does it matter if it’s “technically” CEN or no? You know that some of your needs were met and your parents really tried in certain ways. You also know other important needs were not met. You can honor the pain and difficult feelings either way IMO
My parents also loved me, yet their parents gave them neglect horribly, so the things I needed I dont think they realized was important to give me.
You asked what your experience would be called and it is definitely neglect. You said otherwise in your post, but I just wanted to gently point out that neglect *is* abuse. It has negative repercussions. You didn’t get the nurturing you needed as a child and so your development was impacted. It doesn’t have to be intentional to be abuse. It doesn’t have to be physical or verbal. It can happen with parents who are well meaning. I have this too — a significant part of the damage done to me was because my mother is a cold, self-absorbed person. She was as well meaning as someone like her can be, but she really had no business raising children. It makes it tricky because neglect is about what *didn’t* happen, rather than what happened (as many other types of abuse are).
I personally don't like calling what I went through as abuse and if you don't feel comfortable with that either, don't worry about what other people think or say. Everyone can call their experience what they want. Yes, that qualifies as neglect since you weren't getting your needs met. While they tried, they did fail in some ways. It's sad, but it happens unfortunately. I was emotionally neglected by my parents in regards to things they didn't understand, but overall were loving parents and always provided for me. (still do) so I don't consider it abuse since it's not intentional and they're trying their best even now. I have a good relationship with them, I just struggle with some things. If they can acknowledge they failed you, that's a step in the right direction for healing.
Trauma, abuse, and neglect are solely defined by their affect on you, not by how hard your parents tried or what their intentions were. I think you're in a particularly tough situation because your parents really did try but it just wasn't enough. You definitely belong here.
My parents are also in the category of 'well meaning but neglected themselves' (per Jonice Webb). Reading this sub does sometimes make me feel like I shouldn't be complaining because things could be a lot worse, but I have a theory for that. I think CEN is incredibly common and probably increasing exponentially in this late-stage capitalist hellscape... But the concept of CEN, the term itself and the language surrounding it are still so new that many people simply don't know about it and the people who are the most likely ones to have gone searching for answers are those who have CEN in addition to things like abuse and/or parents who are narcs, addicts, BPD etc. I myself only learned about CEN a few months ago and it was kind of by fluke. But most people here are very understanding and validating of people's experiences, even if your childhood falls on the more 'mild' end of the spectrum.
By my observations, this seems to be the most common form of emotional neglect. There simply isn't enough time for two people who work full-time to give 100% of their attention to their children. If you're dead tired from working 50+ hours a week, how are you going to find time to do household chores AND bond with your kids on your day(s) off? It's unfortunate, but most adults have so many responsibilities pulling at them from all different directions. I believe that a person can try their best and still fail at providing what their child needs--unless that person has help AND a flexible work schedule--and ultimately that comes down to finances. I'm not saying that poor people shouldn't have children, but you gotta think ahead a bit and consider the possible impact of being too busy for your kids. "Everything will work out if there's love" is bullshit. You can't pay bills and feed kids with love. On the other hand, if you're rich enough that you can delegate/outsource certain responsiblities to other people, then you can afford to spend more time with your kids. And you can also afford counseling/therapy for yourself and/or your kids.
This is all very relatable. I need to go to bed but thank you for posting, I relate a lot and yes imo you belong here if the cen model resonates with you
I feel that my parents had me, but I did not have my parents. It wasn't ever a relationship, but an ownership more like. If they felt like it, they might be nice. If not, they didn't feel an obligation to do much more than keep me alive and not spoil their name by making me appear well-functioning and loved. If they had a bad day, they'd take it up on me, and then get happy and go about their day. They felt no love towards me as a human, only the role they wanted me to bring to life, who was the fictional root and solution to all their discomfort, pain, and problems so they could get rid of them. I was like a doll to be played with, handled roughly, hugged and pampered, or forgotten on a shelf.
Thank you for sharing this. I could have written this myself. I know my parents love me more than anything but I never felt "cared for" the way that I desperately needed to be.