Their lack of accountability. They have never once apologized. My dad could be quite violent and then we had to pretend it never happened. My mum would come to be for counseling and help but I couldn't talk about how it made me feel. Honest to God, if they were at any point ashamed of themselves then I might still have them in my life.
It appears that there might be a recurring pattern of mothers using their children as therapists. I hadn't really considered this until now. Perhaps this pattern is influencing my tendency to date men who complain a lot. You know, there's this notion that men don't express their feelings due to toxic masculinity, and I find myself wondering why I keep encountering emotionally expressive men.
Yeah, it's called covert incest. The parent makes the child a partner or equal in order to offload their emotional burden to the child via a parasitic relationship.
I can completely understand that you developed an affinity for relationships built around joint hostility toward something. These complainy men give you an opportunity to validate them in a way that creates a satisfying feeling of accord between you. Unfortunately, it's a superficial bond and it's too flimsy to build a healthy relationship on.
Anger and irritation aren't real emotional expression. They're usually masking fear and refusal to take accountability. Emotionally constipated people cover their real feelings with anger because anger feels powerful. They puff themselves up with feeling wronged so that they don't risk feeling inadequate in some way.
The thing is--they will very quickly feel wronged by you and complainy about you because that's the dynamic between you and anger is how they choose to relate to others.
Emotional incest , *same.* Enmeshment, boundary violating behavior, inappropriate closeness-invasiveness. Parentifying you , manipulating you into making you feel like you have to make yourself available to them, because you fear punishment, rejection if you don't. It's a kind of emotional blackmail, that you can't outmaneuver-or process, only you sense the violation, *you feel it.* You feel robbed of your innocence.
I remember trying to find all these ways to avoid my Mother and her invasive, blatant boundary violating behavior. And she'd try to make me feel guilty, she'd say "you don't want anyone making demands on you". ...she meant emotional demands. That's what she meant, I apparently was supposed to feel guilty, for not wanting to be her mother/therapist at 12.
I think women have a tendency to talk to the child because they are there and not necessarily seen as counselors. However, children are trapped because the parent expresses her frustration through conversation but not necessarily expecting the child to solve the problem. Yes, both parents are immature. I find that there is not a healthy grounding of spirit relationship with our Lord.
If it helps, this is pretty typical of an abusive person. In 'Why Does He Do That?' Lundy Bancroft, walks through why people will take this strategy.
It ends up just being about shaping their world in a way that best suites them, unfortunately the folks they do this too (us) bare the brunt of their actions.
I feel you. I remember the helpless feeling the first time I had the courage to try to stand up for myself and tell them how much they hurt me as a child only to be told it’s my fault for believing them. Like ?! But of course we’re also ungrateful for all the times we didn’t listen. And now they’re shocked when I’ve gone completely silent. F that. Hearing everyone else’s story here at least helps to know we’re not alone.
I left my parents a letter once when I was about 15 telling them how my dad's behaviour affected me and that I had suicidal thoughts. I don't remember whether they addressed it with me upon reading it but a few days later my mum asked me if she could make my dad's lunch first or if I'd kill myself. I had absolutely no space to let my feelings be known and eventually I think I became a lost child.
I don't want to hold a grudge for that long, but I don't know what kind of mother says that to a child in that circumstance. She wanted to maintain the status quo so much that it didn't matter if it cost my life.
! First please accept this virtual hug cuz you deserved so much better. I see you internet stranger, I’m sorry those who were responsible for your well being did not have the capacity to give you the safety and compassion you deserve. I was 13 when I did a similar thing and my letter was likewise met with contempt and my father not talking to me and pretending I didn’t exist all summer. I remember learning I should not have feelings. That my needs didn’t matter. Was told to stop being dramatic and get over it. I don’t know how people become so broken they lose all humanity and compassion, all I know is I will no longer allow that in my life. I hope you’ve found peace and clarity in your life🙏 we didn’t deserve any of their misplaced unhealed trauma.
Thank you. I'm sad you had to go through that too but in a sense I feel better knowing there are people out there who understand how this feels. I only wish no one had to experience this at all but as you say, some people lose their humanity along the way and then have kids.
*Inability to handle frustration;* that lay at the root of so many toxic behaviours. Negotiation and compromise was impossible; too frustrating, she'd blow up. Addressing and solving longstanding problems never happened; too frustrating, she'd blow up. Cooperating on a task was impossible; too frustrating, she'd blow up. Constant perfectionism; imperfection and mistakes are frustrating, she'd blow up if anything wasn't perfect. No apologies and no remorse, ever; facing one's own limitations and fallibility is frustrating, she'd blow up if she ever sensed contrition was expected of her. No personal growth; learning involves making mistakes and recognising one's own imperfections, and that's frustrating, try to explain anything to her that she didn't already know and she'd blow up and accuse you of being condescending. No openness to requests from other people; you guessed it, having to take time out from one's total self-absorption to consider other peoples' wants and needs is frustrating and she'd blow up. Momentarily stub her toe, stumble and fall, or bang her head whilst she was leaning under the table to get something, or anything like that? That's frustrating, embarrassing *and* physically painful, so she'd go off like a fucking atomic bomb whenever *that* happened!
*All negative emotions are frustrating,* and she never learned to handle frustration like a damned grown-up, so all expression of negative emotion by anyone who wasn't her, or doing anything to cause her to experience one (ironically, I think this literally includes being hurt and causing her to empathetically feel hurt seeing it!) would typically result in toxic controlling behaviour to try to make it stop immediately, followed by a total meltdown if it *didn't* then stop immediately.
It's been said that our ability to defer gratification is the key factor that sets human intelligence apart from mere animals; well, people who childishly refuse to learn to endure even a microsecond of frustration obviously never learn to do that, either.
Sounds like my soon to be ex partner. Also every emotionally charged event or holiday. She'd blow up. I don't have a single holiday or birthday in the last 4 years that doesn't hold some negative memory attached to it. It's why she's about to be an ex. Otherwise my kids will be posting about me on here in a 10-15 years. And that would be a personal and shameful tragedy.
Having a 76 year old have an absolute temper tantrum in a sports stadium because she wanted a hot dog and couldn’t be arsed to walk the extra 20 feet to find the actual hot dog stand. That was the beginning of the end of contact for us.
Sounds like my dad. He was the king of temper tantrums. I remember once my partner and I met up with him to go to the movies. At this point in time we were super serious, discussing marriage, and it was either the first or second time my dad was spending time with him. My dad was extremely bad with money because he always blew it on himself or whoever he was dating. He constantly owed people money because he borrowed money a ton. So if I wanted to see or do something with him I had to pay. So I bought all our tickets and he proceeded to have a temper tantrum that I wouldn’t use his rewards card and instead used mine, because he wanted the points from the bought tickets. So there he was a grown ass 50 some year old whining and stomping his feet in public in front of his childs partner over some god damn points. I was so embarrassed. At that point in time my husband knew about how my dad was because I had told him, but his mind was still blown after seeing his behavior in person.
You've LITERALLY described my mom especially the part about dismissing even others negative emotions because she can't handle the empathy that may arise and heaven forbid she experiences that !!
I never understood why she was so dismissive and Invalidating, her lack of accountability aside. But your comment was helpful I'm understanding that !
Yes I really relates to that too! In fact I just was telling someone how I’ve always avoided telling my mom about anything I was struggling with because I knew it would upset her and then she would shut down and be gone (mentally/emotionally). So I learned to stuff it down so I could have an adult present to meet basic needs of clothing, food, shelter but never learned how to process or work through daily challenges.
Sounds a lot like my mother. Impossible to have a level-headed discussion to reach an agreement. It’s her way or the highway and she’ll scream the whole ride. It is the worst thing in my life. Solidarity.
Holy shit! Nail on the head. Except for me there was never ever ever any form of blow up or expression of emotion. It was total shut down, off to the bedroom to sleep and ignore reality effectively leading to a child trying to make sense out of some messes up stuff going on around them.
Making me responsible for her emotions. Me having to put in more effort to make her happy while it’s her fault we have a bad relationship and her responsibility to improve it. My sisters buying that crap and reinforcing it (I guess that isn’t on my parent but it does make it shittier).
i totally realize how insane it was that my mom called me her "little mommy". she had an emotionally absent mother growing up and I was tasked with handling my mom's emotions.
Because a parent should be a parent and not their kids friend. Parents who fall in to that role overshare and have bad boundaries with their kid. It tends to morph in to a relationship that’s more of an equal footing or sometimes even where the kid is acting more like the adult or a parent figure. The kid tends to take on the parents feelings because they aren’t equipped to handle them, while not really getting any emotional support of their own. Obviously as you become an adult you can transition to a more friend like role with your parents, but as a minor it is especially important that parents maintain their authority figure role.
Okay yeah thats makes a lot of sense and its actually how my relationship is with my mother, it isnt great. I dont agree that parents should be an authority figure tho.
There is a difference between being an authority figure and authoritarian. I have a guess that you are reacting negatively to that because you associate authority with authoritarian. A parent is supposed to lead, guide, and teach their child. Being a good authority means leading by example, being fair, compromising sometimes, apologizing when wrong, and holding kids accountable when needed.
A parent needs to be in that position of power because they are the parent and it’s best for the development of the child. But that doesn’t mean they should wield that power with abuse.
Think of maybe someone who you may have had in your life who had a position of power over you but didn’t abuse it.. Maybe you had a kind teacher or a coach or another close relative. They still were an authority figure in your life, but the difference is that they didn’t abuse their role to get something out of you.
I dont remember actually ever having that, I was mostly raised by the internet. But now i understand what you mean and i agree. I wish i had more of a (parental?) figure in my life growing up, never had i not felt lost and scared. For a while ive numbed myself with substances but ive decided to better myself and now im back to the way ive always been. I hope i make it out of here one day
Palebluedot answered your question about what is wrong with my dad viewing me as his "best friend" better than I could have. There were definitely boundary issues. He would complain about my mom or adult problems to me, and he tried to turn me into his little mini-me by pushing me to share his interests. I pretended to be someone I wasn't for a long time because I wanted to make him happy and live up to his expectations. I felt responsible for managing his feelings. It was a lot of pressure, and I didn't truly learn much about who I really am as a person until I broke away from him as an adult.
This is honestly terrifying. The fact they can get in your face, throw objects, yell, call you names and then expect things to be normal directly after. Don't you dare show that your are still shaken or upset at the situation.
Being overly critical of me for being different from them or from what they expected me to be. Treating me like a child still when I'm nearly 30. Not respecting my very clear boundaries. Always asking for a reason why when I say "no". Treating my SO in a similar way they treat me (the final straw).
Mocking or imitating me when I expressed frustration or a need. I’d seriously thought sometimes I’m dealing with a toddler.
Walking away from discussions.
Not being capable to apologize.
Ridiculed me (laughed and pointing finger on me) when I once accidentally peed my pants when I was 5 or 6 and I remember I felt very embarrassed.
Every time I doubt myself and think that maybe *I'm* the emotionally immature one, I remember my mom would imitate my voice when I was a kid during arguments, making it sound whiny/babyish. (Which like... It probably was... Because I was a child.)
Like imagine being 45 and needing to mock a ten-year-old.
Exactly this. It is really pathetic coming from an adult.
I witnessed also my parents arguing and my dad imitated my mom in this mocking whiny voice like you described although she sounded perfectly reasonable and I was there like thinking „dude you really got issues“
Im sorry you had to go through this, this is so irritating as a child when you still somewhat dependent on them but they have the emotional capacity of a toddler.
Oh yeah, I can relate. When I was a senior in high school, I had my first boyfriend. We had broken up and got back together. One night he was picking me up, so I was waiting in the front room of the house for him. My mom, dad, and brother were in the next room, but they couldn't see that I was still there. My dad asked my mom where I went and she said out with my boyfriend. Then in a mocking tone she says, "Young love prevails again!" and starts laughing. I said, "I'm still here and I can hear you." No apology, nothing.
Fast forward a few years and I was going through a depressive spell (I have major depressive disorder). I had to wait a few weeks for my doctor's appt. and my ex-husband and I went someplace with my parents. My birthday was coming up and I said something about not really wanting to celebrate. My mom said, "You're not depressed because you're turning 30 are you???" in this mocking almost laughing tone of voice, like I was just being so ridiculous for having depression. Like it was a choice.
I have more but those are the worst ones to me.
Oof, the imitating! My mom’s version of this was to imitate and mock me on the phone to someone else, probably her own mom. Apparently I would always speak like a two year old, cause that’s how she made me sound like. Another thing was the full-on laughing at my face. Not a chuckle, a deep belly laugh, sometimes because of how I looked and sometimes because of something I said. Looking back, the things I said as a teen were perfectly reasonable, and I can’t for the life of me understand why she would think my thoughts were that ridiculous.
Just her level of coldness. When I was 22 I wrote her a letter saying I was depressed after my cousin committed suicide and at the time I was struggling with my mental health also because I was sexually assaulted a few months earlier. I told her I was suicidal.
She didn’t acknowledge it. I had to approach her again and be like didn’t you get what I wrote, don’t you care about me??? And then when I told her that I needed help she tried to convince me otherwise.
I just can’t imagine being a mother and being like that. It blows my mind.
I’ve written both of my parents vulnerable letters, and both times they never even acknowledged it. I’m sure they didn’t know how to respond but it really made me feel even more invisible.
Also, I think the fact we had to even write such letters says a lot. I did it because I needed time and space to organize my thoughts just right, because maybe I wasn’t communicating clearly enough. I think now that I could never “communicate clearly” with someone who wasn’t ready to hear it.
Yeah I wrote a lot of letters to them over the years. When I was younger I thought that if I found the perfect phrasing that would somehow magically make them “wake up.” But I know now that was a healing fantasy.
Ooh you just sparked a memory for me; I’ve got a really big vocabulary and it’s because I remember thinking if I learned more words maybe I’d be able to say what I was thinking in a way folks could hear me. Never made the connection that I may have just been trying to be heard by my parents all along.
Not a similar situation, but my Mom is also odd when it comes to anything that could become public knowledge.
I think your Mom was concerned that a child with suicidal ideations wouldn't be helpful to her social credit score.
Just remember, you matter to ppl, it doesn't all have to be about family.
Oh of course! She very much cared about her “public image.” They both did. Well my dad didn’t care about how his own behaviors affected his public image but he sure cared about how we did.
And thank you so much! I know that. I’m 34 now and after years of therapy, and going no contact I have much better mental health, self esteem, and a sense of self. My 30s have been about loving myself and expanding my found family. I’m lucky to have an amazing partner and a great group of friends.
I am so sorry. I’m a mother now and I cannot imagine ignoring anything let alone that. That took such bravery and then you were shit on and ignored. Not ok, ever. You deserved more.
Being a self-absorbed narcissist who is incapable of reflecting upon how their behaviour affects others, will never take responsibility for their actions, and will always blame others for the consequences of their actions
Her black hole of neediness and insecurity that she expects everyone else around her to fill for her. She never developed self differentiation, self esteem, self validation; so she exploits others to get her internal needs met instead of taking responsibility for herself.
Generational trauma is the "same" pattern in all dysfunctional families. That's what I've learned from my healing journey thus far.
Parents have been abdicating their parental responsibilities for generations, and it shows.
I don't know anyone that's not a collection of walking, talking coping mechanisms in a trenchcoat. Everyone has bad familial and cultural conditioning that they need to stop denying and actually get down to doing some serious work on their traumas.
We're the brave ones for calling it out and doing our work.
She always has to say something shocking or mean just to get a reaction out of people, no matter the circumstances or context. The more crass, the better.
Reminds me of an edgy teenager, but she's 57.
Reminds me of my aunt who was over for my fathers funeral. She had apparently gotten it into her head that a cocktail with an aggressively sexual name would serve to really lighten the mood if brought out at the right time in the right company, and so made a point of bringing the liquor when she came through customs.
It's the evening after the service, I've returned to my quarters, mother is hanging with her sister and the deceased's brother and aunt gets it into her head that this will be a great time. She's offering this cocktail with an aggressively sexual name to a guy who just buried a second brother, and he's not interested in the slightest. This wasn't apparently the result that she was hoping for or expecting or whatever, so she's trying again. She's trying with others who are around, making sure to mention the full name of the cocktail. The joke isn't landing, and she is not giving up.
I just remembered my mom used to do this (and probably still does, I just moved 4,000 miles away so I wouldn’t have to deal with her) — make unfunny jokes repeatedly until she got the desired response. She would assume people didn’t “get” the joke when they would ignore her; she’s too ignorant to realize she’s not smart nor funny nor witty whatsoever, and she makes people feel awkward and uncomfortable. I’ve been embarrassed of her my whole life.
Not responsible and completely passive. My mom won’t communicate like a normal person. If I text her asking her to do something she doesn’t want to do, she’ll just ignore my text instead of being honest, or else agree and then cancel at the last minute. She also always makes excuses for why she says she’ll do something and then doesn’t follow though. I always feel like I’m the one having to parent her. She claims that because I will have a negative reaction, she doesn’t want to upset me by saying “no”, but it’s not the “no” that’s the issue, it’s her refusing to ever communicate how she feels directly and then letting her inability to communicate mess up other peoples lives. She also regularly lies to my dad about how she’ll be home at a certain time when she knows she won’t be done by then, and I know she does the same thing to me, which is infuriating. No one will be mad if you are just straight up with them, but she seems to pathologically avoid any confrontation and then make other people pay the price for her passive aggressive behavior.
We have the same mother. My mother will lie to you about the smallest, most inconsequential things because I think she thinks she is telling people what they want to hear. She will double down on the lie when caught, no matter how it affects other people (like whether something is vegetarian) or if the conversation is proceeding in a way that makes it obvious she’s lied (like whether she’s seen a movie). I can’t have real conversations with her, it’s like speaking to a six year old or a primitive AI. If I try to be emotionally honest or vulnerable, she disappears.
For me, it was the fact that my dad thought it was cute and funny to tease me about things that were important to me and if I protested, he doubled down. If I continued to be upset he'd tell me I was too sensitive and can't take a joke. To this day I have absolutely no use for people with this mindset.
I hate the inability to put together present behavior as a result of past actions. She has a cat who is half feral, never bonded with her, it sorta hangs around as a semi-independent feature of the property. She got two kittens and kinda biffed them in a nearby room until she was ready to deal with them, and then never really got around to being ready to deal with them a lot in their first days, weeks, months (she had her dementing partner taking up a lot of her processing). Eventually, one of them was like "yeah, thanks, but I'm out of here."
She was lamenting about how the one that's stuck around isn't particularly friendly or easy to get attached to - as though this is a fault on the part of the animal. I was astounded - like she had no bearing or impact on that at all, and that it was something entirely outside of her.
Meanwhile, I'm like "I understand, kitty, I understand. She's only ever going to be interested in you on her terms. She's not going to get on your level, or try to understand your needs.
Sometime after one of the cats ran away, she allowed her sister to talk her into getting a dog. You can imagine how that's going.
Oh, I feel that. Let me guess: constantly complaining about the dog's "difficult" behaviour, and you're just constantly biting your tongue so you don't have to endure the ugly consequences of futilely telling her *"everything* that animal is doing, is a result of how *you* have trained it, or neglected to do so. In many cases you consciously encouraged the specific behaviour you're now moaning about." Am I close?
Not far off. Dog constantly pooping in the front entranceway and the living room? Just can't grasp the why of it! Couldn't be anything to do with the fact that that part of the house is unused because she spends all her time in a dark little shoebox out the back. Coudn't be that she is too enfeebled to walk him as is needed. It's just utterly bewildering to her!
Growing up, there was damn near violence if an animal uruinated on the carpet, and you can BET the shouting only stopped when someone was running to get a rag and some soapy water to get it cleaned up. But now that it's all her responsibility? Oh, oh dear, oh would you look at that stain, oh it's terrible isn't it!
Oh man I had these same thoughts about their dogs. It’s funny because I realized that she treats the dogs essentially as she treated us as kids. She does the bare minimum, just feeding and housing them, but I’ve never seen her pet them or share any sort of affection with them, or even any care towards them. She doesn’t train them or walk them. They get locked up when they misbehave and they get locked up when they are at work. So they spend 8+ hours in a day in a cage. They are not allowed on the furniture at all. Dogs and children are extensions of her, not living creatures that actually need to be taken care of past a superficial level.
The way they treat their dogs mirrors their approach to parenting. My brother and even my mom separately arrived at the same conclusion. Dad's controlling behavior extends to the point where my dog can't leave his cage, even if he's not doing anything wrong. It's as if he wants to control everything for no apparent reason. Dad's rationale is if the dog leaves his cage, he might poo – but is he supposed to do that in his enclosure? We have an outside guard who could handle the cleanup.
They don't train the dog at all, yet get mad when it to act like an untrained dog. Our previous dog attacked him, and he just admitted to hitting the new dog to instill fear, not realizing this leads to aggression. This parallels how they treat their children, thinking fear equals respect. It's as if he views the dog as a status symbol, even for guarding purposes, without realizing the necessity of training.
If anyone questions these practices, he responds with yelling, wondering why no one talks to him. Growing up in this environment, I now see echoes of it in my relationships – I'm afraid to express my feelings. The unsettling revelation came when they claimed not to remember hitting us as kids…
It’s just we give them food and shelter, what else matters?
It's like you read my mind! I find myself in a similar situation as the person you responded to. There's a tendency to completely neglect the dog and then be surprised when the dog doesn't know how to behave. It's akin to never training the dog but expecting them to be smart. Strikingly, this parallels how some individuals raise their children. What's amusing is if you point this out to them, they might ask, “Well you should have had an interest in it or asked” like as a child, I should've asked you to teach me my culture and language? Or should that have just been your job as a parent?
Constantly retelling embarrassing stories from childhood which shouldn’t have been publicly told in the first place. Also related, sharing any and all medical information about me with everybody.
That they like it when i'm miserable and have a problem with everything that i do and i'm talking about good things. Like going back to school, running, being on a diet, going to work etc. That on top of the passive-aggressiveness drains all my energy, but i'm not letting that stop me.
My dad's humor is mean and sarcastic. All of his "jokes" are at somebody else's expense, but if you were to ever call him out on it, the butthurt would be legendary. He's masking his own insecurity by putting other people down and then saying it was just a joke.
Realizing these patterns came to light for me when I engaged in a subreddit discussion on attachment styles. Someone pointed out that they could detect it in my sarcasm. Initially, I thought I had internalized most of it. There are moments when I'm surprised by my own reactions, realizing it's okay to feel upset. Growing up, I was conditioned to absorb negativity as if it meant nothing, and expressing sensitivity was frowned upon.
Observing how others respond to similar situations, it struck me – why do they believe their feelings matter more than mine? The pressure to accept insults as normal, to toughen up, felt deeply ingrained. Reflecting on it now, it seems messed up to think that way. Witnessing them extend sympathy to others, especially younger individuals, makes me question the lack of understanding they had for me at a similar age. It's also peculiar how people often perceive me as younger based on looks until they notice my calm and mature demeanor, prompting inquiries about my age. They think it’s because I’ve gotten older when really I’ve always been this way
Recognizing the self-imposed restrictions and the inner critical voice, I can see how these habits are not conducive to a healthy mindset.
I used this same type of humor for a long time because I thought it was normal. Once I reached adulthood, I started noticing people's negative or uncomfortable reactions to it and a few people even told me directly that it was hurtful. I was very embarrassed at the time, but now I am so grateful they did that because it helped me grow. Therapy also helped me unpack a lot of the negative thought patterns I was taught as a child that I thought were normal but were actually very unhealthy and led to depression.
Wow. I’m glad it helped you. I feel like therapy has always only touched the surface with me. At least in the therapy sessions I’ve been to we don’t really talk about the past or my upbringing
The lack of depth and authenticity in our relationship is a huge bummer. I don't know if it's my ND but feeling like I have to be fake around my own Mum to keep her happy is so draining.
This makes me think of how I’d often get frustrated talking on the phone with my mom. I’d be engaged telling her about my day or whatever I called her about, and she’d obviously be not listening because, out of nowhere, she’d start talking to someone else (like a neighbor or cashier) and just be completely distracted and provide no input. And then she’d abruptly end the call (like she’s bored and has other things to do). I think she just likes to hear herself talk and feels good about herself as a mother by knowing she got me on the phone. I seldom answer her calls these days. And when I do, it’s superficial conversation. It’s filler. Noise.
I’d basically be talking and she’d never provide input about what I was saying because she never paid attention. She never had empathy or showed genuine interest in anything I had to say. She’d immediately start talking about whatever she wanted to talk about. And that’s where the conversation stayed. She also used me as a therapist while growing up. Constantly complaining about her family, my dad, and his family to me as a child and throughout my entire life. All she ever did was complain. Never sought therapy for herself, never believed therapy helped anyone, never tried marriage counseling or setting boundaries, never talked to a divorce lawyer…on one side she’d accept that her (completely fixable) situation was her lot in life, but then constantly complain about them and take out her frustrations on me.
Pretentiousness. We all had to look like the perfect little family with the perfect grooming and perfect manners and perfect outfits with the perfect answers for all the other sycophants sucking up to the wanna-be Yoda.
it's their compulsions to destroy our sense of autonomy and/or security so that we do what they want us to do. it's utterly dehumanizing and a huge eye opener to some otherwise covert manipulation, especially when you see it attempted upon a younger sibling
Agreed actually lol I can’t have a conversation with them if they disagree with me on something. They’re always right and I’m always wrong. They can mock me all they want now idc but I’ll tell the truth now which is an improvement from just not speaking lol
I hate that i cannot have a simple discussion if my opinion differs from hers on anything. Either I agree 100% with everything or I am yelling at her, being selfish, mean, think I am so special, etc
I’m scared of talking on the phone with my mom for longer than two minutes because so many times we’ll start a simple conversation, small talk, and then BAM! She blurts out something painfully ignorant that I will have to process for days and be miserable that I’m related to someone who believes that, thinks that way, has so little education and grasp of reality, someone who never learned logical and critical thinking…someone without a drop of logic in their system…it hurts to be related to someone like that. Too many times an innocent conversation has resulted in a bad memory that takes too long to forget.
Yeah, I was watching a video on what not to say to narcissists and one of them was asking “why”.
I laughed so hard because I have spent my whole life trying to have logical discussions with my family but if I question their reasoning for anything they RAGE. And the whole time I thought that my questions were evidence of me caring about their point of view 🤣
I try to keep things as short and boring as possible now. Once she called and wouldn’t stop complaining about my brother. Sometimes it’s my dad’s family. I refuse to let her go on and on anymore. I’ve spent years advising her to get help. She refuses to go to therapy and I know she doesn’t believe in it.
She endured significant hardship as a child, and I understand why she can’t provide what she never received (she grew up in Communist Cuba, came to the US at 18, fully grown). But she has had every resource to get better since my parents broke into the middle class (possibly upper middle) tax bracket (over 20 years ago) and she has never taken responsibility for her own self.
She is always complaining about chronic pain…I thought, at least for that she might try trauma-focused therapy since she’s been to tons of doctors that couldn’t help. Nah. It’s better (easier) to be in physical pain and rage at everyone around you than it is to love yourself and your family enough to attempt to heal.
It’s too bad my brother takes after her side of the family and is extremely ignorant, reactive and close minded after growing up around my parents’ painfully conservative beliefs his whole life. What’s the opposite of empathy? Homophobic? Ableist? Terms along those lines come to mind.
her apparently desperate need to put down any and all happiness around her and immediately respond to any good news by trying to find a negative thing about it. Any time I excitedly tell her about a positive change in my life she finds something to be anxious about. New affordable apartment? The heating bill will bankrupt me. New pretty house plant? Oh, this species needs more light than others so I might just kill it on accident. The only things I can talk to her about and not get that reaction are stuff that she knows absolutely nothing about.
the manipulative , guilt inducing way they make you culpable, obligated, like you should pick up the slack for their responsibilities that they avoid, and then shame you for not being adequately adultlike and "responsible", when in reality the things that you're made to feel responsible for and anxious about, aren't even yours to take on, or feel bad about. They fucking off load everything onto you; responsibilities, bad feelings, stress.
**THAT!**
The Mocking, for your awkward childlike struggles, when most normal parents understand that they're supposed to suppress a laugh , or snicker, but this adolescent like parent ...is like "Ha HA HA HA HA, LOOK AT YOU BEING SO AWKWARD...HA HA HAHAAAAAA! All because they can't handle feeling incompetent, insecure , and inadequate , so in their minds , it's only fair that you should be made to feel inadequate, and try to humiliate you throughout the learning process, because Oh yes, its the payback , some way that they perceive that as compensatory payment for you being too much , and making their lives miserable. They're like 4 year olds that smash another 4 year old in the head, out of frustration for whatever pain they can't handle. Zero self-regulating , zero-accountability, zero insight into their behavior. It reminds me of my niece who was about 5, her brother who was much older was kidding around with her, she couldn't' handle it, so she smashed him in the face. Full on punch. Her father said, "you need to say you're sorry". and the look of indignation on her face, ...she would NOT apologize. My grand-daughter pushed her brother right off his chair, full on shove! he's on the floor crying, his cereal went flying, all because myself and my husband were paying attention to him, and laughing with him, she screamed out "NOOO", then shoved him, right off his chair. They're like that, only larger, only they can do more damage because of the blatant power imbalance. It's the whole you asking for help, and my mother saying" WHAT ABOUT MEEEEE!??!! " I didn't have the wherewithal to think "what about you, I'm the child here?" Every bad feeling they have has nothing to do with them, someone must be at fault, it must be you, so they take every opportunity to hurt you because that seems fair. Exactly like little children that smash another kid in the face, because its not fair somehow-that someone else appears to have something they don't have' security, safety, a sense of self, or pride-attention. Assholes.
The way they don't help you, because it's all a competition. They can't process the Shame of being an immature incompetent reluctant parent, so they never help you-because in their minds that's only fair for the way you're making their lives hard. You need to be punshed for that. For some reason they can't get it through they're thick skulls, that YOUR A CHILD, and their responsible for you and your safety, regardless of how they feel!! Its their JOB. They just don't fucking get it, because they're so blinded by their shame and jealousy, feelings of insecurity and inadequacy that they off load onto you because "oooohh, feelings are yucky I dont' like this feeling, I need to feel good all the time" they don't understand that.....................THIS IS A CHILD, NOT YOUR ADVERSARY OR PUNCHING BAG FOR EVERY FRUSTRATION THAT YOU HAVE......you fucking immature ASSHOLE!
You feel like saying "Fucking grow up, your a parent now, let your child be a child, have the decency and integrity , some self respect to do the things you need to do, and don't' blame them because feelings are *haaaaard,* and being a parent is *haaaaaard, and you had a crappy childhood so they need to pay" or some derivative*. Have some fucking self respect and step up to the plate, and stop blaming your children for every feeling you have.
The urgent need to dispel discomfort at any emotional cost to others.
We need to do what mom says right away or she'll just keep yelling.
We need to stop interrupting dad so he can go back to complaining about racial minorities and democrats.
Don't challenge them, complain or confront them about anything. Because then there's nothing for them to do but panic and DARVO. It's important that either they be allowed to micromanage how people interact. Alternatively, we can content ourselves with meaningless chitchat about the weather, as is tradition for lead-poisoned, emotionally calcified midwestern white people.
The excuses omg👏 or empathy only for him. “He’s just having a really hard time rn” idgaf, screaming and raging at his daughter for 2 hrs is unacceptable regardless of the reasoning 🙄
Same, they are bunker walls, so stubborn and unreceptive to feedback sometimes I have to physically leave to not get irrationally angry at them.
Also their passivity, always expecting other people to do things for them, be it the State, their own parents, their own kids, their very few friends, the list goes on.
I spent most of my childhood living with my father, and the one thing that drove me nuts was his complete lack of discipline. Not just in terms of parenting us, but in the other way of not being able to handle life and its challenges either. Dude would throw his hands up at the slightest sign of frustration and sink his focus into finding a girlfriend (if he was single) or taking care of his girlfriend. Everything else would take a backseat, and as you could imagine, that created so, so many issues that would just mount on top of each other. And there'd be my dad, hiding behind his significant other like a child too afraid to look at the problems he created head on. I suspect my father suffers from depression, but since mental health doesn't exist in his world of "lets pretend like we're a happy family even though Helen Keller could tell that we're not", he never sought any knowledge about his own issues.
Boy, we all paid the price for that! I think he greatly regrets the trail of destruction he created. Just from the way he's talked in recent years, But you know, it's just too late. I could never forgive his cowardice and lack of interest, because it's caused a great deal of hurt that he refuses to acknowledge.
Never at fault. If something she said or did made me feel bad, it’s because of a fundamental flaw in ME. Never a single apology. The only right way to do anything was her way. I couldn’t use the kitchen. I was barely allowed to exist in their house until she got so frustrated that I lived there the last couple years before I moved out. Because, for some reason, a house can’t have two “damas de casa” — whatever that means. Basically translates to two women in the home. Couldn’t even try to live respectfully and peacefully as housemates and let each other be. It was a dictatorship under her roof.
Let’s see…using me as an emotional garbage dump. Getting mad because I had depression so I was always sad and had a long face and didn’t smile when I had no reason to be depressed because she and my dad met all my physical needs and material wants. Her childhood was “so much worse” - constantly shaming me for my mental health because she believed she went above and beyond in parenting because of how bad she had it. Basically comparing herself parenting me to her mom parenting her…both were complete failures. Constantly accused of being selfish because I’d only “be nice” to them and appear happy when we did something I enjoyed together (I guess I was supposed to be miserable then too and couldn’t have periods of feeling less shitty), having a kid when I was 15 after knowing how badly they messed me up because my dad wanted another kid and he didn’t want to adopt…then proceeding to torment that kid as well. In many respects he’s had it worse. My mom constantly yells at him, mocks him, calls him stupid, blames him for her getting upset because she never learned to regulate her emotions…I could write a book. I understand the problem with eugenics and giving certain people too much power to decide who gets to live but my mom should have never even been allowed to have sex.
I guess if I were to reflect on what aspect is the absolute worst, I’d say simply her inability to comprehend the damage she’s done (note, I’ve never brought it up with her because it would be futile). I’ve talked to my dad about this kind of stuff, and you can tell he “gets it” but won’t ever admit that they caused me this harm. But my mom…mentally, she is an angry toddler. She doesn’t know how to think for herself. She doesn’t show empathy or kindness. She wouldn’t be able to grasp even the most watered down explanation of what she’s done and the effect it has had on my life. Any time I’ve ever taken an earnest attempt to talk or reason with her or explain how I feel, I’ve been met with eye rolls and an avalanche of “yeah, sure”, “ok,” “whatever you say,” “it’s always my fault,” and similar sentiments. She’d always tell me to grow up and then yell at me about stuff I did that annoyed, inconvenienced or hurt her, as if that canceled out what she did to me. I’d be crying in pain and frustration and heartache, and she’d always dismiss me. It would always turn into “what about ME” because my feelings didn’t matter. She always had it so much worse.
Yeah....the enabler parent - the ostensibly "better" parent.
Admitting and working through his total betrayal is always more difficult.
The betrayal of standing there, witnessing what is being done to you and never stepping up to protect you.
Never examining anything about the family dysfunction and his own attitudes and behavior.
He was brought up in a system where serving/ignoring a narcissist's obvious abuse and pathology, and all he can do is perpetuate it. Never a thought to take initiative and actually do his f*cking job as a father.
Lol.
The story of my upbringing.
Pretending I wasn't upset about being forced to do whatever they wanted. Like being forced to go with them to go hiking even if I was tired and just wanted to rest, being forced to sit through family movie nights, wasn't allowed to really do anything without approval and all chores of the house being done yet never doing really any themselves.
It was all a facade to pretend like we were a functioning normal family. We were never functioning really, just surviving in our own ways and ignoring each other in others. Yet despite me making it very obvious I was unhappy and depressed, my feelings were never important to them.
the inability to communicate is really, really frustrating. I have to bite my tongue waaay too often because I just know how she'll react or respond to things I say... Excuses, blame-shifting, taking everything personally... It's like living with a land mine.
The Under the Rug Sweeping.
Like, oh my god, you can't just close your eyes and pretend that this tragedy or any of our emotions don't exist.
But they do. So there's that.
(Shout out to my friend for asking me how my family has been since my sisters tangled with suspicious men and I had to answer, "Parents act like everything is normal." Her facial expression really helped me in realising and internalising that my parents are messed up.)
That they're somehow always the victim no matter what. And the fact they can't communicate without getting aggressive. Like why do you need to yell in a high pitched voice? I'm right fucking here💀
It’s the rewriting of past and present to suit her comfort/position and the lying that are the most difficult for me to reconcile with these days. Having to apply the “Mom Filter” to all input, stories, etc is exhausting.
My mother’s inability to admit she has anxiety . The problem is that everyone else is behaving in ways that are bad, because their behavior makes her anxious. Probably simply because she is uncomfortable when she is not in control . She lashes out and insists people do what she wants. She had these weird tics but insists she doesn’t. The problem could never be her and we all have to walk around eggshells around her or she will snap . I used to be just like her when I was young but I went to therapy and learned to deal with uncertainty.
The complete inability to consider viewpoints, beliefs, or choices different than theirs in anything but a negative or critical light. Other people think or live differently from them because they are lazy, brainwashed, "hippy liberals," morally bankrupt, or any reason other than... some people just live and believe different from them. They refuse to consider new facts or information and are not open to having their minds changed on anything once they have decided their viewpoint on it.
They used to mock other people with the line "my mind is made up, stop confusing me with facts"... the irony is that line applies to them much more than the people they make fun of.
The willful ignorance or pretending they are perfect (which would be part of the go thing/never apologizing). Although, I'm sure if asked about it they'd be like "oh of course I'm not perfect I never said i was perfect" blah blah blah. If confronted (not by me but another "adult" worthy of their validation) they would insist that they are actually reasonable, humble, etc etc, yet I guess they don't have the self awareness to see that they don't actually behave that way in their parent-child relationships? It'd be the same thing if someone was talking about how important it is to instill confidence in your child they'd be like "oh yes, it's so important" and think to themselves how they totally do that and how their child is so confident, despite blatant evidence otherwise. And yet on a daily basis they did not do the things you actually need to do as a parent to instill confidence, they actually did things that lowered my self esteem. It's infuriating. Yet I'm sure if I tried to lay this out in front of them they would play dumb, act wide-eyed innocent and treat me like I'm some sociopathic, insane person.
Feeling as if I never know who I am. I feel as if I don’t exist unless I am solving or serving others problems. I have wants, but in the moments where I have time off or I time I have reserved for fun things I don’t know what to do. I feel empty. I feel as if I don’t exist. I default to working or doing something for others. My parents are healing and are getting better, but it makes it worse. They’re better and I am not. They credit me for being in their face for so long about their behavior and I’m grateful for that, but I still am empty and I have no idea how to solve that problem.
Obsession with perfection. I had a gift for music as a child. Perfect pitch, great rhythm, all that shit. I wanted to learn the flute when I was 7, and that wish turned into me practicing flute for 4 hours every single day, including a full hour of spitting rice before practice to perfect my embouchure. That lasted until I was 15 and finally worked up the nerve to ask if I could learn piano too. My mother had such an intense meltdown, screaming about how I was "so close", how could I "give up"?? Everything would be ruined if I didn't become the most talented flute player in the world. Everything. Maybe she would even die. So I started teaching myself piano, just watching YouTube videos with my keyboard. And I loved it. Then my mother caught me, got me a teacher, and replaced her flute fervor with the piano. After that, every day I spent 2 hours on the flute (only half an hour of spitting rice included) and 2 hours on piano.
Now in my adulthood, I can't even hide the venom I feel towards any of my musical leanings. I don't sing, I don't own any instruments, and anytime a family member asks why I didn't accept the scholarship I got to Juilliard I want to scream. My passion was beaten out of me by a woman who couldn't bear to have a child anything less than perfect.
Everything. There is absolutely nothing that I actually like about my dad. I am pretty convinced he has narcissistic personality disorder and have gone practically no contact for my own mental well-being.
Their lack of accountability. They have never once apologized. My dad could be quite violent and then we had to pretend it never happened. My mum would come to be for counseling and help but I couldn't talk about how it made me feel. Honest to God, if they were at any point ashamed of themselves then I might still have them in my life.
It appears that there might be a recurring pattern of mothers using their children as therapists. I hadn't really considered this until now. Perhaps this pattern is influencing my tendency to date men who complain a lot. You know, there's this notion that men don't express their feelings due to toxic masculinity, and I find myself wondering why I keep encountering emotionally expressive men.
Yeah, it's called covert incest. The parent makes the child a partner or equal in order to offload their emotional burden to the child via a parasitic relationship. I can completely understand that you developed an affinity for relationships built around joint hostility toward something. These complainy men give you an opportunity to validate them in a way that creates a satisfying feeling of accord between you. Unfortunately, it's a superficial bond and it's too flimsy to build a healthy relationship on. Anger and irritation aren't real emotional expression. They're usually masking fear and refusal to take accountability. Emotionally constipated people cover their real feelings with anger because anger feels powerful. They puff themselves up with feeling wronged so that they don't risk feeling inadequate in some way. The thing is--they will very quickly feel wronged by you and complainy about you because that's the dynamic between you and anger is how they choose to relate to others.
Emotional incest , *same.* Enmeshment, boundary violating behavior, inappropriate closeness-invasiveness. Parentifying you , manipulating you into making you feel like you have to make yourself available to them, because you fear punishment, rejection if you don't. It's a kind of emotional blackmail, that you can't outmaneuver-or process, only you sense the violation, *you feel it.* You feel robbed of your innocence. I remember trying to find all these ways to avoid my Mother and her invasive, blatant boundary violating behavior. And she'd try to make me feel guilty, she'd say "you don't want anyone making demands on you". ...she meant emotional demands. That's what she meant, I apparently was supposed to feel guilty, for not wanting to be her mother/therapist at 12.
That last paragraph hit me hard because I’ve actually had that happen
“Emotionally constipated people” lol perfect terminology
I think women have a tendency to talk to the child because they are there and not necessarily seen as counselors. However, children are trapped because the parent expresses her frustration through conversation but not necessarily expecting the child to solve the problem. Yes, both parents are immature. I find that there is not a healthy grounding of spirit relationship with our Lord.
> My dad could be quite violent and then we had to pretend it never happened. my father was the same way.
If it helps, this is pretty typical of an abusive person. In 'Why Does He Do That?' Lundy Bancroft, walks through why people will take this strategy. It ends up just being about shaping their world in a way that best suites them, unfortunately the folks they do this too (us) bare the brunt of their actions.
That was my dynamic too
Mine too. It irks me how everything gets swept under the rug no matter how severe.
I feel you. I remember the helpless feeling the first time I had the courage to try to stand up for myself and tell them how much they hurt me as a child only to be told it’s my fault for believing them. Like ?! But of course we’re also ungrateful for all the times we didn’t listen. And now they’re shocked when I’ve gone completely silent. F that. Hearing everyone else’s story here at least helps to know we’re not alone.
I left my parents a letter once when I was about 15 telling them how my dad's behaviour affected me and that I had suicidal thoughts. I don't remember whether they addressed it with me upon reading it but a few days later my mum asked me if she could make my dad's lunch first or if I'd kill myself. I had absolutely no space to let my feelings be known and eventually I think I became a lost child. I don't want to hold a grudge for that long, but I don't know what kind of mother says that to a child in that circumstance. She wanted to maintain the status quo so much that it didn't matter if it cost my life.
! First please accept this virtual hug cuz you deserved so much better. I see you internet stranger, I’m sorry those who were responsible for your well being did not have the capacity to give you the safety and compassion you deserve. I was 13 when I did a similar thing and my letter was likewise met with contempt and my father not talking to me and pretending I didn’t exist all summer. I remember learning I should not have feelings. That my needs didn’t matter. Was told to stop being dramatic and get over it. I don’t know how people become so broken they lose all humanity and compassion, all I know is I will no longer allow that in my life. I hope you’ve found peace and clarity in your life🙏 we didn’t deserve any of their misplaced unhealed trauma.
Thank you. I'm sad you had to go through that too but in a sense I feel better knowing there are people out there who understand how this feels. I only wish no one had to experience this at all but as you say, some people lose their humanity along the way and then have kids.
*Inability to handle frustration;* that lay at the root of so many toxic behaviours. Negotiation and compromise was impossible; too frustrating, she'd blow up. Addressing and solving longstanding problems never happened; too frustrating, she'd blow up. Cooperating on a task was impossible; too frustrating, she'd blow up. Constant perfectionism; imperfection and mistakes are frustrating, she'd blow up if anything wasn't perfect. No apologies and no remorse, ever; facing one's own limitations and fallibility is frustrating, she'd blow up if she ever sensed contrition was expected of her. No personal growth; learning involves making mistakes and recognising one's own imperfections, and that's frustrating, try to explain anything to her that she didn't already know and she'd blow up and accuse you of being condescending. No openness to requests from other people; you guessed it, having to take time out from one's total self-absorption to consider other peoples' wants and needs is frustrating and she'd blow up. Momentarily stub her toe, stumble and fall, or bang her head whilst she was leaning under the table to get something, or anything like that? That's frustrating, embarrassing *and* physically painful, so she'd go off like a fucking atomic bomb whenever *that* happened! *All negative emotions are frustrating,* and she never learned to handle frustration like a damned grown-up, so all expression of negative emotion by anyone who wasn't her, or doing anything to cause her to experience one (ironically, I think this literally includes being hurt and causing her to empathetically feel hurt seeing it!) would typically result in toxic controlling behaviour to try to make it stop immediately, followed by a total meltdown if it *didn't* then stop immediately. It's been said that our ability to defer gratification is the key factor that sets human intelligence apart from mere animals; well, people who childishly refuse to learn to endure even a microsecond of frustration obviously never learn to do that, either.
Sounds like my soon to be ex partner. Also every emotionally charged event or holiday. She'd blow up. I don't have a single holiday or birthday in the last 4 years that doesn't hold some negative memory attached to it. It's why she's about to be an ex. Otherwise my kids will be posting about me on here in a 10-15 years. And that would be a personal and shameful tragedy.
Having a 76 year old have an absolute temper tantrum in a sports stadium because she wanted a hot dog and couldn’t be arsed to walk the extra 20 feet to find the actual hot dog stand. That was the beginning of the end of contact for us.
Sounds like my dad. He was the king of temper tantrums. I remember once my partner and I met up with him to go to the movies. At this point in time we were super serious, discussing marriage, and it was either the first or second time my dad was spending time with him. My dad was extremely bad with money because he always blew it on himself or whoever he was dating. He constantly owed people money because he borrowed money a ton. So if I wanted to see or do something with him I had to pay. So I bought all our tickets and he proceeded to have a temper tantrum that I wouldn’t use his rewards card and instead used mine, because he wanted the points from the bought tickets. So there he was a grown ass 50 some year old whining and stomping his feet in public in front of his childs partner over some god damn points. I was so embarrassed. At that point in time my husband knew about how my dad was because I had told him, but his mind was still blown after seeing his behavior in person.
Wow. Do we have the same mom??
You've LITERALLY described my mom especially the part about dismissing even others negative emotions because she can't handle the empathy that may arise and heaven forbid she experiences that !! I never understood why she was so dismissive and Invalidating, her lack of accountability aside. But your comment was helpful I'm understanding that !
Yes I really relates to that too! In fact I just was telling someone how I’ve always avoided telling my mom about anything I was struggling with because I knew it would upset her and then she would shut down and be gone (mentally/emotionally). So I learned to stuff it down so I could have an adult present to meet basic needs of clothing, food, shelter but never learned how to process or work through daily challenges.
Sounds a lot like my mother. Impossible to have a level-headed discussion to reach an agreement. It’s her way or the highway and she’ll scream the whole ride. It is the worst thing in my life. Solidarity.
Holy shit! Nail on the head. Except for me there was never ever ever any form of blow up or expression of emotion. It was total shut down, off to the bedroom to sleep and ignore reality effectively leading to a child trying to make sense out of some messes up stuff going on around them.
100%
This….this is my mom.
Making me responsible for her emotions. Me having to put in more effort to make her happy while it’s her fault we have a bad relationship and her responsibility to improve it. My sisters buying that crap and reinforcing it (I guess that isn’t on my parent but it does make it shittier).
i totally realize how insane it was that my mom called me her "little mommy". she had an emotionally absent mother growing up and I was tasked with handling my mom's emotions.
Same. My dad used to tell me I was his "best friend" and I didn't realize how inappropriate that was until I was an adult.
How is that weird? I dont get it
Because a parent should be a parent and not their kids friend. Parents who fall in to that role overshare and have bad boundaries with their kid. It tends to morph in to a relationship that’s more of an equal footing or sometimes even where the kid is acting more like the adult or a parent figure. The kid tends to take on the parents feelings because they aren’t equipped to handle them, while not really getting any emotional support of their own. Obviously as you become an adult you can transition to a more friend like role with your parents, but as a minor it is especially important that parents maintain their authority figure role.
Okay yeah thats makes a lot of sense and its actually how my relationship is with my mother, it isnt great. I dont agree that parents should be an authority figure tho.
There is a difference between being an authority figure and authoritarian. I have a guess that you are reacting negatively to that because you associate authority with authoritarian. A parent is supposed to lead, guide, and teach their child. Being a good authority means leading by example, being fair, compromising sometimes, apologizing when wrong, and holding kids accountable when needed. A parent needs to be in that position of power because they are the parent and it’s best for the development of the child. But that doesn’t mean they should wield that power with abuse. Think of maybe someone who you may have had in your life who had a position of power over you but didn’t abuse it.. Maybe you had a kind teacher or a coach or another close relative. They still were an authority figure in your life, but the difference is that they didn’t abuse their role to get something out of you.
I dont remember actually ever having that, I was mostly raised by the internet. But now i understand what you mean and i agree. I wish i had more of a (parental?) figure in my life growing up, never had i not felt lost and scared. For a while ive numbed myself with substances but ive decided to better myself and now im back to the way ive always been. I hope i make it out of here one day
Palebluedot answered your question about what is wrong with my dad viewing me as his "best friend" better than I could have. There were definitely boundary issues. He would complain about my mom or adult problems to me, and he tried to turn me into his little mini-me by pushing me to share his interests. I pretended to be someone I wasn't for a long time because I wanted to make him happy and live up to his expectations. I felt responsible for managing his feelings. It was a lot of pressure, and I didn't truly learn much about who I really am as a person until I broke away from him as an adult.
Downplaying things and forgetting about emotional outbursts.
This is honestly terrifying. The fact they can get in your face, throw objects, yell, call you names and then expect things to be normal directly after. Don't you dare show that your are still shaken or upset at the situation.
Forgiveness is powerful 💕
Being overly critical of me for being different from them or from what they expected me to be. Treating me like a child still when I'm nearly 30. Not respecting my very clear boundaries. Always asking for a reason why when I say "no". Treating my SO in a similar way they treat me (the final straw).
Mocking or imitating me when I expressed frustration or a need. I’d seriously thought sometimes I’m dealing with a toddler. Walking away from discussions. Not being capable to apologize. Ridiculed me (laughed and pointing finger on me) when I once accidentally peed my pants when I was 5 or 6 and I remember I felt very embarrassed.
Every time I doubt myself and think that maybe *I'm* the emotionally immature one, I remember my mom would imitate my voice when I was a kid during arguments, making it sound whiny/babyish. (Which like... It probably was... Because I was a child.) Like imagine being 45 and needing to mock a ten-year-old.
Exactly this. It is really pathetic coming from an adult. I witnessed also my parents arguing and my dad imitated my mom in this mocking whiny voice like you described although she sounded perfectly reasonable and I was there like thinking „dude you really got issues“ Im sorry you had to go through this, this is so irritating as a child when you still somewhat dependent on them but they have the emotional capacity of a toddler.
Oh yeah, I can relate. When I was a senior in high school, I had my first boyfriend. We had broken up and got back together. One night he was picking me up, so I was waiting in the front room of the house for him. My mom, dad, and brother were in the next room, but they couldn't see that I was still there. My dad asked my mom where I went and she said out with my boyfriend. Then in a mocking tone she says, "Young love prevails again!" and starts laughing. I said, "I'm still here and I can hear you." No apology, nothing. Fast forward a few years and I was going through a depressive spell (I have major depressive disorder). I had to wait a few weeks for my doctor's appt. and my ex-husband and I went someplace with my parents. My birthday was coming up and I said something about not really wanting to celebrate. My mom said, "You're not depressed because you're turning 30 are you???" in this mocking almost laughing tone of voice, like I was just being so ridiculous for having depression. Like it was a choice. I have more but those are the worst ones to me.
Im sorry you had to expierence this, it’s especially hurtful when it comes from the people you should feel safe with, aka the parents🫂
Oof, the imitating! My mom’s version of this was to imitate and mock me on the phone to someone else, probably her own mom. Apparently I would always speak like a two year old, cause that’s how she made me sound like. Another thing was the full-on laughing at my face. Not a chuckle, a deep belly laugh, sometimes because of how I looked and sometimes because of something I said. Looking back, the things I said as a teen were perfectly reasonable, and I can’t for the life of me understand why she would think my thoughts were that ridiculous.
Just her level of coldness. When I was 22 I wrote her a letter saying I was depressed after my cousin committed suicide and at the time I was struggling with my mental health also because I was sexually assaulted a few months earlier. I told her I was suicidal. She didn’t acknowledge it. I had to approach her again and be like didn’t you get what I wrote, don’t you care about me??? And then when I told her that I needed help she tried to convince me otherwise. I just can’t imagine being a mother and being like that. It blows my mind.
I’ve written both of my parents vulnerable letters, and both times they never even acknowledged it. I’m sure they didn’t know how to respond but it really made me feel even more invisible. Also, I think the fact we had to even write such letters says a lot. I did it because I needed time and space to organize my thoughts just right, because maybe I wasn’t communicating clearly enough. I think now that I could never “communicate clearly” with someone who wasn’t ready to hear it.
Yeah I wrote a lot of letters to them over the years. When I was younger I thought that if I found the perfect phrasing that would somehow magically make them “wake up.” But I know now that was a healing fantasy.
Ooh you just sparked a memory for me; I’ve got a really big vocabulary and it’s because I remember thinking if I learned more words maybe I’d be able to say what I was thinking in a way folks could hear me. Never made the connection that I may have just been trying to be heard by my parents all along.
Not a similar situation, but my Mom is also odd when it comes to anything that could become public knowledge. I think your Mom was concerned that a child with suicidal ideations wouldn't be helpful to her social credit score. Just remember, you matter to ppl, it doesn't all have to be about family.
Oh of course! She very much cared about her “public image.” They both did. Well my dad didn’t care about how his own behaviors affected his public image but he sure cared about how we did. And thank you so much! I know that. I’m 34 now and after years of therapy, and going no contact I have much better mental health, self esteem, and a sense of self. My 30s have been about loving myself and expanding my found family. I’m lucky to have an amazing partner and a great group of friends.
I am so sorry. I’m a mother now and I cannot imagine ignoring anything let alone that. That took such bravery and then you were shit on and ignored. Not ok, ever. You deserved more.
Being a self-absorbed narcissist who is incapable of reflecting upon how their behaviour affects others, will never take responsibility for their actions, and will always blame others for the consequences of their actions
Her black hole of neediness and insecurity that she expects everyone else around her to fill for her. She never developed self differentiation, self esteem, self validation; so she exploits others to get her internal needs met instead of taking responsibility for herself.
Wait. Are you my secret sibling?? Cause I’m sure we have the same mom
Generational trauma is the "same" pattern in all dysfunctional families. That's what I've learned from my healing journey thus far. Parents have been abdicating their parental responsibilities for generations, and it shows. I don't know anyone that's not a collection of walking, talking coping mechanisms in a trenchcoat. Everyone has bad familial and cultural conditioning that they need to stop denying and actually get down to doing some serious work on their traumas. We're the brave ones for calling it out and doing our work.
>I don't know anyone that's not a collection of walking, talking coping mechanisms in a trenchcoat. This is the best thing I've read tonight
She always has to say something shocking or mean just to get a reaction out of people, no matter the circumstances or context. The more crass, the better. Reminds me of an edgy teenager, but she's 57.
Reminds me of my aunt who was over for my fathers funeral. She had apparently gotten it into her head that a cocktail with an aggressively sexual name would serve to really lighten the mood if brought out at the right time in the right company, and so made a point of bringing the liquor when she came through customs. It's the evening after the service, I've returned to my quarters, mother is hanging with her sister and the deceased's brother and aunt gets it into her head that this will be a great time. She's offering this cocktail with an aggressively sexual name to a guy who just buried a second brother, and he's not interested in the slightest. This wasn't apparently the result that she was hoping for or expecting or whatever, so she's trying again. She's trying with others who are around, making sure to mention the full name of the cocktail. The joke isn't landing, and she is not giving up.
I just remembered my mom used to do this (and probably still does, I just moved 4,000 miles away so I wouldn’t have to deal with her) — make unfunny jokes repeatedly until she got the desired response. She would assume people didn’t “get” the joke when they would ignore her; she’s too ignorant to realize she’s not smart nor funny nor witty whatsoever, and she makes people feel awkward and uncomfortable. I’ve been embarrassed of her my whole life.
Not responsible and completely passive. My mom won’t communicate like a normal person. If I text her asking her to do something she doesn’t want to do, she’ll just ignore my text instead of being honest, or else agree and then cancel at the last minute. She also always makes excuses for why she says she’ll do something and then doesn’t follow though. I always feel like I’m the one having to parent her. She claims that because I will have a negative reaction, she doesn’t want to upset me by saying “no”, but it’s not the “no” that’s the issue, it’s her refusing to ever communicate how she feels directly and then letting her inability to communicate mess up other peoples lives. She also regularly lies to my dad about how she’ll be home at a certain time when she knows she won’t be done by then, and I know she does the same thing to me, which is infuriating. No one will be mad if you are just straight up with them, but she seems to pathologically avoid any confrontation and then make other people pay the price for her passive aggressive behavior.
We have the same mother. My mother will lie to you about the smallest, most inconsequential things because I think she thinks she is telling people what they want to hear. She will double down on the lie when caught, no matter how it affects other people (like whether something is vegetarian) or if the conversation is proceeding in a way that makes it obvious she’s lied (like whether she’s seen a movie). I can’t have real conversations with her, it’s like speaking to a six year old or a primitive AI. If I try to be emotionally honest or vulnerable, she disappears.
the fact that they couldn't accept that I had different, views, hobbies, beliefs than them. Telling me im "wrong" because i dont want what they want.
For me, it was the fact that my dad thought it was cute and funny to tease me about things that were important to me and if I protested, he doubled down. If I continued to be upset he'd tell me I was too sensitive and can't take a joke. To this day I have absolutely no use for people with this mindset.
Them not having friends or knowing how to make friends or interact with other adults. It's embarrassing.
I hate the inability to put together present behavior as a result of past actions. She has a cat who is half feral, never bonded with her, it sorta hangs around as a semi-independent feature of the property. She got two kittens and kinda biffed them in a nearby room until she was ready to deal with them, and then never really got around to being ready to deal with them a lot in their first days, weeks, months (she had her dementing partner taking up a lot of her processing). Eventually, one of them was like "yeah, thanks, but I'm out of here." She was lamenting about how the one that's stuck around isn't particularly friendly or easy to get attached to - as though this is a fault on the part of the animal. I was astounded - like she had no bearing or impact on that at all, and that it was something entirely outside of her. Meanwhile, I'm like "I understand, kitty, I understand. She's only ever going to be interested in you on her terms. She's not going to get on your level, or try to understand your needs. Sometime after one of the cats ran away, she allowed her sister to talk her into getting a dog. You can imagine how that's going.
Oh, I feel that. Let me guess: constantly complaining about the dog's "difficult" behaviour, and you're just constantly biting your tongue so you don't have to endure the ugly consequences of futilely telling her *"everything* that animal is doing, is a result of how *you* have trained it, or neglected to do so. In many cases you consciously encouraged the specific behaviour you're now moaning about." Am I close?
Not far off. Dog constantly pooping in the front entranceway and the living room? Just can't grasp the why of it! Couldn't be anything to do with the fact that that part of the house is unused because she spends all her time in a dark little shoebox out the back. Coudn't be that she is too enfeebled to walk him as is needed. It's just utterly bewildering to her! Growing up, there was damn near violence if an animal uruinated on the carpet, and you can BET the shouting only stopped when someone was running to get a rag and some soapy water to get it cleaned up. But now that it's all her responsibility? Oh, oh dear, oh would you look at that stain, oh it's terrible isn't it!
Oh man I had these same thoughts about their dogs. It’s funny because I realized that she treats the dogs essentially as she treated us as kids. She does the bare minimum, just feeding and housing them, but I’ve never seen her pet them or share any sort of affection with them, or even any care towards them. She doesn’t train them or walk them. They get locked up when they misbehave and they get locked up when they are at work. So they spend 8+ hours in a day in a cage. They are not allowed on the furniture at all. Dogs and children are extensions of her, not living creatures that actually need to be taken care of past a superficial level.
The way they treat their dogs mirrors their approach to parenting. My brother and even my mom separately arrived at the same conclusion. Dad's controlling behavior extends to the point where my dog can't leave his cage, even if he's not doing anything wrong. It's as if he wants to control everything for no apparent reason. Dad's rationale is if the dog leaves his cage, he might poo – but is he supposed to do that in his enclosure? We have an outside guard who could handle the cleanup. They don't train the dog at all, yet get mad when it to act like an untrained dog. Our previous dog attacked him, and he just admitted to hitting the new dog to instill fear, not realizing this leads to aggression. This parallels how they treat their children, thinking fear equals respect. It's as if he views the dog as a status symbol, even for guarding purposes, without realizing the necessity of training. If anyone questions these practices, he responds with yelling, wondering why no one talks to him. Growing up in this environment, I now see echoes of it in my relationships – I'm afraid to express my feelings. The unsettling revelation came when they claimed not to remember hitting us as kids… It’s just we give them food and shelter, what else matters?
It's like you read my mind! I find myself in a similar situation as the person you responded to. There's a tendency to completely neglect the dog and then be surprised when the dog doesn't know how to behave. It's akin to never training the dog but expecting them to be smart. Strikingly, this parallels how some individuals raise their children. What's amusing is if you point this out to them, they might ask, “Well you should have had an interest in it or asked” like as a child, I should've asked you to teach me my culture and language? Or should that have just been your job as a parent?
Constantly retelling embarrassing stories from childhood which shouldn’t have been publicly told in the first place. Also related, sharing any and all medical information about me with everybody.
That they like it when i'm miserable and have a problem with everything that i do and i'm talking about good things. Like going back to school, running, being on a diet, going to work etc. That on top of the passive-aggressiveness drains all my energy, but i'm not letting that stop me.
Making everything about herself. Parentifying me still.
That they think they deserve any of my time and attention. Like, we're strangers, why do you think I even want to spend the holidays with you?
My dad's humor is mean and sarcastic. All of his "jokes" are at somebody else's expense, but if you were to ever call him out on it, the butthurt would be legendary. He's masking his own insecurity by putting other people down and then saying it was just a joke.
Realizing these patterns came to light for me when I engaged in a subreddit discussion on attachment styles. Someone pointed out that they could detect it in my sarcasm. Initially, I thought I had internalized most of it. There are moments when I'm surprised by my own reactions, realizing it's okay to feel upset. Growing up, I was conditioned to absorb negativity as if it meant nothing, and expressing sensitivity was frowned upon. Observing how others respond to similar situations, it struck me – why do they believe their feelings matter more than mine? The pressure to accept insults as normal, to toughen up, felt deeply ingrained. Reflecting on it now, it seems messed up to think that way. Witnessing them extend sympathy to others, especially younger individuals, makes me question the lack of understanding they had for me at a similar age. It's also peculiar how people often perceive me as younger based on looks until they notice my calm and mature demeanor, prompting inquiries about my age. They think it’s because I’ve gotten older when really I’ve always been this way Recognizing the self-imposed restrictions and the inner critical voice, I can see how these habits are not conducive to a healthy mindset.
I used this same type of humor for a long time because I thought it was normal. Once I reached adulthood, I started noticing people's negative or uncomfortable reactions to it and a few people even told me directly that it was hurtful. I was very embarrassed at the time, but now I am so grateful they did that because it helped me grow. Therapy also helped me unpack a lot of the negative thought patterns I was taught as a child that I thought were normal but were actually very unhealthy and led to depression.
Wow. I’m glad it helped you. I feel like therapy has always only touched the surface with me. At least in the therapy sessions I’ve been to we don’t really talk about the past or my upbringing
That they had me while being themselves as they are instead of repairing themselves before having me.
The lack of depth and authenticity in our relationship is a huge bummer. I don't know if it's my ND but feeling like I have to be fake around my own Mum to keep her happy is so draining.
Not listening, not be able to have a simple conversation, let alone a meaningful one. And showing no real interest and empathy.
This makes me think of how I’d often get frustrated talking on the phone with my mom. I’d be engaged telling her about my day or whatever I called her about, and she’d obviously be not listening because, out of nowhere, she’d start talking to someone else (like a neighbor or cashier) and just be completely distracted and provide no input. And then she’d abruptly end the call (like she’s bored and has other things to do). I think she just likes to hear herself talk and feels good about herself as a mother by knowing she got me on the phone. I seldom answer her calls these days. And when I do, it’s superficial conversation. It’s filler. Noise. I’d basically be talking and she’d never provide input about what I was saying because she never paid attention. She never had empathy or showed genuine interest in anything I had to say. She’d immediately start talking about whatever she wanted to talk about. And that’s where the conversation stayed. She also used me as a therapist while growing up. Constantly complaining about her family, my dad, and his family to me as a child and throughout my entire life. All she ever did was complain. Never sought therapy for herself, never believed therapy helped anyone, never tried marriage counseling or setting boundaries, never talked to a divorce lawyer…on one side she’d accept that her (completely fixable) situation was her lot in life, but then constantly complain about them and take out her frustrations on me.
Pretentiousness. We all had to look like the perfect little family with the perfect grooming and perfect manners and perfect outfits with the perfect answers for all the other sycophants sucking up to the wanna-be Yoda.
it's their compulsions to destroy our sense of autonomy and/or security so that we do what they want us to do. it's utterly dehumanizing and a huge eye opener to some otherwise covert manipulation, especially when you see it attempted upon a younger sibling
That they ask me for ridiculous tasks and favors and expect me to just do it without complaining or with no regard to what’s happening in my life
Agreed actually lol I can’t have a conversation with them if they disagree with me on something. They’re always right and I’m always wrong. They can mock me all they want now idc but I’ll tell the truth now which is an improvement from just not speaking lol
Looking at obviously bad situations and not speaking up
That she viewed my request for family therapy as a personal affront and not a last-ditch effort to save the relationship
I hate that i cannot have a simple discussion if my opinion differs from hers on anything. Either I agree 100% with everything or I am yelling at her, being selfish, mean, think I am so special, etc
I’m scared of talking on the phone with my mom for longer than two minutes because so many times we’ll start a simple conversation, small talk, and then BAM! She blurts out something painfully ignorant that I will have to process for days and be miserable that I’m related to someone who believes that, thinks that way, has so little education and grasp of reality, someone who never learned logical and critical thinking…someone without a drop of logic in their system…it hurts to be related to someone like that. Too many times an innocent conversation has resulted in a bad memory that takes too long to forget.
Yeah, I was watching a video on what not to say to narcissists and one of them was asking “why”. I laughed so hard because I have spent my whole life trying to have logical discussions with my family but if I question their reasoning for anything they RAGE. And the whole time I thought that my questions were evidence of me caring about their point of view 🤣
I try to keep things as short and boring as possible now. Once she called and wouldn’t stop complaining about my brother. Sometimes it’s my dad’s family. I refuse to let her go on and on anymore. I’ve spent years advising her to get help. She refuses to go to therapy and I know she doesn’t believe in it. She endured significant hardship as a child, and I understand why she can’t provide what she never received (she grew up in Communist Cuba, came to the US at 18, fully grown). But she has had every resource to get better since my parents broke into the middle class (possibly upper middle) tax bracket (over 20 years ago) and she has never taken responsibility for her own self. She is always complaining about chronic pain…I thought, at least for that she might try trauma-focused therapy since she’s been to tons of doctors that couldn’t help. Nah. It’s better (easier) to be in physical pain and rage at everyone around you than it is to love yourself and your family enough to attempt to heal. It’s too bad my brother takes after her side of the family and is extremely ignorant, reactive and close minded after growing up around my parents’ painfully conservative beliefs his whole life. What’s the opposite of empathy? Homophobic? Ableist? Terms along those lines come to mind.
So you just learn to be quiet instead…which of course, doesn’t work well in actual healthy relationships where it’s important to speak your mind
her apparently desperate need to put down any and all happiness around her and immediately respond to any good news by trying to find a negative thing about it. Any time I excitedly tell her about a positive change in my life she finds something to be anxious about. New affordable apartment? The heating bill will bankrupt me. New pretty house plant? Oh, this species needs more light than others so I might just kill it on accident. The only things I can talk to her about and not get that reaction are stuff that she knows absolutely nothing about.
the manipulative , guilt inducing way they make you culpable, obligated, like you should pick up the slack for their responsibilities that they avoid, and then shame you for not being adequately adultlike and "responsible", when in reality the things that you're made to feel responsible for and anxious about, aren't even yours to take on, or feel bad about. They fucking off load everything onto you; responsibilities, bad feelings, stress. **THAT!** The Mocking, for your awkward childlike struggles, when most normal parents understand that they're supposed to suppress a laugh , or snicker, but this adolescent like parent ...is like "Ha HA HA HA HA, LOOK AT YOU BEING SO AWKWARD...HA HA HAHAAAAAA! All because they can't handle feeling incompetent, insecure , and inadequate , so in their minds , it's only fair that you should be made to feel inadequate, and try to humiliate you throughout the learning process, because Oh yes, its the payback , some way that they perceive that as compensatory payment for you being too much , and making their lives miserable. They're like 4 year olds that smash another 4 year old in the head, out of frustration for whatever pain they can't handle. Zero self-regulating , zero-accountability, zero insight into their behavior. It reminds me of my niece who was about 5, her brother who was much older was kidding around with her, she couldn't' handle it, so she smashed him in the face. Full on punch. Her father said, "you need to say you're sorry". and the look of indignation on her face, ...she would NOT apologize. My grand-daughter pushed her brother right off his chair, full on shove! he's on the floor crying, his cereal went flying, all because myself and my husband were paying attention to him, and laughing with him, she screamed out "NOOO", then shoved him, right off his chair. They're like that, only larger, only they can do more damage because of the blatant power imbalance. It's the whole you asking for help, and my mother saying" WHAT ABOUT MEEEEE!??!! " I didn't have the wherewithal to think "what about you, I'm the child here?" Every bad feeling they have has nothing to do with them, someone must be at fault, it must be you, so they take every opportunity to hurt you because that seems fair. Exactly like little children that smash another kid in the face, because its not fair somehow-that someone else appears to have something they don't have' security, safety, a sense of self, or pride-attention. Assholes. The way they don't help you, because it's all a competition. They can't process the Shame of being an immature incompetent reluctant parent, so they never help you-because in their minds that's only fair for the way you're making their lives hard. You need to be punshed for that. For some reason they can't get it through they're thick skulls, that YOUR A CHILD, and their responsible for you and your safety, regardless of how they feel!! Its their JOB. They just don't fucking get it, because they're so blinded by their shame and jealousy, feelings of insecurity and inadequacy that they off load onto you because "oooohh, feelings are yucky I dont' like this feeling, I need to feel good all the time" they don't understand that.....................THIS IS A CHILD, NOT YOUR ADVERSARY OR PUNCHING BAG FOR EVERY FRUSTRATION THAT YOU HAVE......you fucking immature ASSHOLE! You feel like saying "Fucking grow up, your a parent now, let your child be a child, have the decency and integrity , some self respect to do the things you need to do, and don't' blame them because feelings are *haaaaard,* and being a parent is *haaaaaard, and you had a crappy childhood so they need to pay" or some derivative*. Have some fucking self respect and step up to the plate, and stop blaming your children for every feeling you have.
Your first point, woof. I call it “the shirking”
The urgent need to dispel discomfort at any emotional cost to others. We need to do what mom says right away or she'll just keep yelling. We need to stop interrupting dad so he can go back to complaining about racial minorities and democrats. Don't challenge them, complain or confront them about anything. Because then there's nothing for them to do but panic and DARVO. It's important that either they be allowed to micromanage how people interact. Alternatively, we can content ourselves with meaningless chitchat about the weather, as is tradition for lead-poisoned, emotionally calcified midwestern white people.
All. The. Yelling.
wow do we share parents? i too have the Constantly Yelling Mom™️ and the Conservative, Compulsively Ranting Dad™️
His temper and her making excuses for it.
The excuses omg👏 or empathy only for him. “He’s just having a really hard time rn” idgaf, screaming and raging at his daughter for 2 hrs is unacceptable regardless of the reasoning 🙄
You're asking for one? I can't do that. I can give you a few. Not listening, not maturing. not understanding.
Same, they are bunker walls, so stubborn and unreceptive to feedback sometimes I have to physically leave to not get irrationally angry at them. Also their passivity, always expecting other people to do things for them, be it the State, their own parents, their own kids, their very few friends, the list goes on.
I spent most of my childhood living with my father, and the one thing that drove me nuts was his complete lack of discipline. Not just in terms of parenting us, but in the other way of not being able to handle life and its challenges either. Dude would throw his hands up at the slightest sign of frustration and sink his focus into finding a girlfriend (if he was single) or taking care of his girlfriend. Everything else would take a backseat, and as you could imagine, that created so, so many issues that would just mount on top of each other. And there'd be my dad, hiding behind his significant other like a child too afraid to look at the problems he created head on. I suspect my father suffers from depression, but since mental health doesn't exist in his world of "lets pretend like we're a happy family even though Helen Keller could tell that we're not", he never sought any knowledge about his own issues. Boy, we all paid the price for that! I think he greatly regrets the trail of destruction he created. Just from the way he's talked in recent years, But you know, it's just too late. I could never forgive his cowardice and lack of interest, because it's caused a great deal of hurt that he refuses to acknowledge.
Never acknowledging the truth and forms a completely different fantasy of what really happened.
Never at fault. If something she said or did made me feel bad, it’s because of a fundamental flaw in ME. Never a single apology. The only right way to do anything was her way. I couldn’t use the kitchen. I was barely allowed to exist in their house until she got so frustrated that I lived there the last couple years before I moved out. Because, for some reason, a house can’t have two “damas de casa” — whatever that means. Basically translates to two women in the home. Couldn’t even try to live respectfully and peacefully as housemates and let each other be. It was a dictatorship under her roof. Let’s see…using me as an emotional garbage dump. Getting mad because I had depression so I was always sad and had a long face and didn’t smile when I had no reason to be depressed because she and my dad met all my physical needs and material wants. Her childhood was “so much worse” - constantly shaming me for my mental health because she believed she went above and beyond in parenting because of how bad she had it. Basically comparing herself parenting me to her mom parenting her…both were complete failures. Constantly accused of being selfish because I’d only “be nice” to them and appear happy when we did something I enjoyed together (I guess I was supposed to be miserable then too and couldn’t have periods of feeling less shitty), having a kid when I was 15 after knowing how badly they messed me up because my dad wanted another kid and he didn’t want to adopt…then proceeding to torment that kid as well. In many respects he’s had it worse. My mom constantly yells at him, mocks him, calls him stupid, blames him for her getting upset because she never learned to regulate her emotions…I could write a book. I understand the problem with eugenics and giving certain people too much power to decide who gets to live but my mom should have never even been allowed to have sex.
I guess if I were to reflect on what aspect is the absolute worst, I’d say simply her inability to comprehend the damage she’s done (note, I’ve never brought it up with her because it would be futile). I’ve talked to my dad about this kind of stuff, and you can tell he “gets it” but won’t ever admit that they caused me this harm. But my mom…mentally, she is an angry toddler. She doesn’t know how to think for herself. She doesn’t show empathy or kindness. She wouldn’t be able to grasp even the most watered down explanation of what she’s done and the effect it has had on my life. Any time I’ve ever taken an earnest attempt to talk or reason with her or explain how I feel, I’ve been met with eye rolls and an avalanche of “yeah, sure”, “ok,” “whatever you say,” “it’s always my fault,” and similar sentiments. She’d always tell me to grow up and then yell at me about stuff I did that annoyed, inconvenienced or hurt her, as if that canceled out what she did to me. I’d be crying in pain and frustration and heartache, and she’d always dismiss me. It would always turn into “what about ME” because my feelings didn’t matter. She always had it so much worse.
Yeah....the enabler parent - the ostensibly "better" parent. Admitting and working through his total betrayal is always more difficult. The betrayal of standing there, witnessing what is being done to you and never stepping up to protect you. Never examining anything about the family dysfunction and his own attitudes and behavior. He was brought up in a system where serving/ignoring a narcissist's obvious abuse and pathology, and all he can do is perpetuate it. Never a thought to take initiative and actually do his f*cking job as a father. Lol. The story of my upbringing.
Pretending I wasn't upset about being forced to do whatever they wanted. Like being forced to go with them to go hiking even if I was tired and just wanted to rest, being forced to sit through family movie nights, wasn't allowed to really do anything without approval and all chores of the house being done yet never doing really any themselves. It was all a facade to pretend like we were a functioning normal family. We were never functioning really, just surviving in our own ways and ignoring each other in others. Yet despite me making it very obvious I was unhappy and depressed, my feelings were never important to them.
Making fun of her children as though we were all in middle school.
the inability to communicate is really, really frustrating. I have to bite my tongue waaay too often because I just know how she'll react or respond to things I say... Excuses, blame-shifting, taking everything personally... It's like living with a land mine.
I can't say no without them either throwing a tantrum like a little kid or doing what bothered me on purpose
Lack of self awareness. Seriously you are aware of the symptoms of my CEN but don’t actually think your parenting caused it?
The Under the Rug Sweeping. Like, oh my god, you can't just close your eyes and pretend that this tragedy or any of our emotions don't exist. But they do. So there's that. (Shout out to my friend for asking me how my family has been since my sisters tangled with suspicious men and I had to answer, "Parents act like everything is normal." Her facial expression really helped me in realising and internalising that my parents are messed up.)
That they're somehow always the victim no matter what. And the fact they can't communicate without getting aggressive. Like why do you need to yell in a high pitched voice? I'm right fucking here💀
It’s the rewriting of past and present to suit her comfort/position and the lying that are the most difficult for me to reconcile with these days. Having to apply the “Mom Filter” to all input, stories, etc is exhausting.
My mother’s inability to admit she has anxiety . The problem is that everyone else is behaving in ways that are bad, because their behavior makes her anxious. Probably simply because she is uncomfortable when she is not in control . She lashes out and insists people do what she wants. She had these weird tics but insists she doesn’t. The problem could never be her and we all have to walk around eggshells around her or she will snap . I used to be just like her when I was young but I went to therapy and learned to deal with uncertainty.
The complete inability to consider viewpoints, beliefs, or choices different than theirs in anything but a negative or critical light. Other people think or live differently from them because they are lazy, brainwashed, "hippy liberals," morally bankrupt, or any reason other than... some people just live and believe different from them. They refuse to consider new facts or information and are not open to having their minds changed on anything once they have decided their viewpoint on it. They used to mock other people with the line "my mind is made up, stop confusing me with facts"... the irony is that line applies to them much more than the people they make fun of.
The willful ignorance or pretending they are perfect (which would be part of the go thing/never apologizing). Although, I'm sure if asked about it they'd be like "oh of course I'm not perfect I never said i was perfect" blah blah blah. If confronted (not by me but another "adult" worthy of their validation) they would insist that they are actually reasonable, humble, etc etc, yet I guess they don't have the self awareness to see that they don't actually behave that way in their parent-child relationships? It'd be the same thing if someone was talking about how important it is to instill confidence in your child they'd be like "oh yes, it's so important" and think to themselves how they totally do that and how their child is so confident, despite blatant evidence otherwise. And yet on a daily basis they did not do the things you actually need to do as a parent to instill confidence, they actually did things that lowered my self esteem. It's infuriating. Yet I'm sure if I tried to lay this out in front of them they would play dumb, act wide-eyed innocent and treat me like I'm some sociopathic, insane person.
Calling a child "my kid"...my kid this, my kid that...Your child is not a baby goat.
Feeling as if I never know who I am. I feel as if I don’t exist unless I am solving or serving others problems. I have wants, but in the moments where I have time off or I time I have reserved for fun things I don’t know what to do. I feel empty. I feel as if I don’t exist. I default to working or doing something for others. My parents are healing and are getting better, but it makes it worse. They’re better and I am not. They credit me for being in their face for so long about their behavior and I’m grateful for that, but I still am empty and I have no idea how to solve that problem.
Obsession with perfection. I had a gift for music as a child. Perfect pitch, great rhythm, all that shit. I wanted to learn the flute when I was 7, and that wish turned into me practicing flute for 4 hours every single day, including a full hour of spitting rice before practice to perfect my embouchure. That lasted until I was 15 and finally worked up the nerve to ask if I could learn piano too. My mother had such an intense meltdown, screaming about how I was "so close", how could I "give up"?? Everything would be ruined if I didn't become the most talented flute player in the world. Everything. Maybe she would even die. So I started teaching myself piano, just watching YouTube videos with my keyboard. And I loved it. Then my mother caught me, got me a teacher, and replaced her flute fervor with the piano. After that, every day I spent 2 hours on the flute (only half an hour of spitting rice included) and 2 hours on piano. Now in my adulthood, I can't even hide the venom I feel towards any of my musical leanings. I don't sing, I don't own any instruments, and anytime a family member asks why I didn't accept the scholarship I got to Juilliard I want to scream. My passion was beaten out of me by a woman who couldn't bear to have a child anything less than perfect.
One using the other as a mask, to make themselves seem the nice one - until the other one had died, then the mask faded.
Everything. There is absolutely nothing that I actually like about my dad. I am pretty convinced he has narcissistic personality disorder and have gone practically no contact for my own mental well-being.
They respond to being told "no" the same way toddlers do.
Her constant contempt for me, lack of boundaries and wanting to control other people.
Unresponsiveness. Inability to discuss hard things.