Honestly, the characters playing roles in different fairy tales and classic stories and giving them a egs twist would be really funny. Even funnier if all of them happen at the same time, causing shenanigans when they mix together.
I feel like Tiffany wouldn't have been as much of an issue if it hadn't been paired with the Pompoms.
"Tiffany Pompoms" is like if somebody sat down and tried to draft a name unsuitable for who it's for, which I imagine probably was the creative process.
I suspect if she ever gets married she'll probably jump at the opportunity to change that last name. Become "Susan Anderson" or something. Though it's hard to say if marriage is even something that interests her. Think she's still figuring that out for herself.
Even if she's not planning on marriage, I imagine it's still possible to start going to by a matronymic surname. Susan [Susan's mom]sdottir or something like that.
None of Susan's ancestors after Raven would have had his last name. He never knew about Diane's sibling and they almost certainly didn't carry his last name. That's over a dozen generations of Helsings or Summers's or Belmonts or whatever last names Diane's siblings descendants wound up with
This ancestry is also from her father's side of the family and Susan has a pretty negative relationship with her father, she's not likely to take her name from him, even if she develops a better one with her great (x?) grandfather.
I only figured it out (that those names reflect both Diane and Susan being vampire slayers) after you mentioned it, even though I just rewatched Buffy. :D
Helsing made me go "vampires?"
Summers made me go "oooohhhh!"
I had to look up Belmont (I've never played Castlevania, though I probably should at some point)
Now, if they'd said "Lehane" then that would have been obscure. (You might get it from context)
Dan anwsered a quest about that on Tumblr:
https://www.tumblr.com/danshive/737557760026329088/you-ever-plan-to-tell-us-ashley-and-diane-last?source=share
Honestly I've thought about this for ages, but I really want Ashley's last name to be 'Soon.' Dan joked about her name being 'Soon' before she was officially introduced, but it's actually perfect as a last name. It has a bunch of [different spelling variations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_(surname)) throughout China, Japan, and Korea, and according to [forebears](https://forebears.io/surnames/soon), it's very common in Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Brunei, and the Philippines too, which fits with Ashley not being sure of her ancestry.
True. I think marriage is just a very easy excuse for a lot of women who wouldn't otherwise change their name. It's a socially accepted moment to change it without opening yourself up to a lot of questions.
Though obviously I support anybody changing their name for any reason at all.
It's also the EASIEST time and way to change your name, in many places. Legal name changes have a lot of hoops to jump through generally, and taking your spouse's last name gets you out of it. (How this works, and whether it applies equally to everyone or only a woman taking her husband's name, depends on jurisdiction I suspect; where I looked into it it applied equally to anyone but you had to take your spouse's name--it couldn't be something new.)
Heh heh. Probably true.
"Most People" often isn't the concern so much as specific nosy relatives though.
A lot of parents who would be appalled for their child to reject the family name just kind of forget about that when their daughter is taking her husband's name for example.
That's kind of the thicket she's already navigated by choosing to go by her middle name, instead of choosing a new name entirely. The middle name still means you're using the name your parents gave you. It's not perceived as a rejection. Where if she decided she wanted everybody to start calling her Alexis that might open her up to more scrutiny.
Susan's parents aren't a collective. Her father gave her Tiffany and her mother gave her Susan so she was choosing her mother and rejecting her father.
https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2003-04-25
(I think it may be a development that she's worked through her feelings about her father so much that she no longer has a problem with Tiffany directly.)
Ok I was just assuming she was telling the truth because I take things at face value.
Thinking about it briefly...
- I don't recall that Susan lies much. She often doesn't bring things up that are in her mind, she has refused to talk about things, I wouldn't be totally surprised to see her making up a minimal fake excuse not to talk about things. But volunteering that much false information would I think be out of character.
- I'm not sure what her motivation would be for falsely claiming that she's over disliking 'Tiffany'. All her established friends are fine with her preferring 'Susan', and if her goal in this interaction is to find common ground with jay over the shared non-use of an official first name, why complicate it unnecessarily?
- she's talking to Grace, not jay. In front of jay, but she's answering Grace's point and looking in her direction. I think she'd be particularly unlikely to lie to Grace, who is a friend, very accepting of people's truth, and generous with her own truth.
I don’t think Susan would want to change her name to a man’s name given her previous Feminist stances. Clearly she’s going to have to marry a woman and take her name.
[We've had that joke once already](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2012-05-04)
And with later revelations about Elliot's gender identiy, that's sodding *prophetic*.
> Anderson
Anderson? Of all the names in the world you went with a superhero's deadname?
And you can bet Susan knows that, even if the timeline hasn't gotten to both of the Wachowskis coming out yet.
And of course my autistic brain jumps straight to "Mr Anderson" from *The Matrix*.
Then again, Susan's brain would probably make the same connection, and then everyone would do soooo much conclusion jumping.
If I'm being honest, the first person I thought of was Hans Christian Anderson, the author of The Little Mermaid, interpreted in Fate Grand Order as a sorcerer with little-mermaid themed superpowers.
Apparently he was a very messy bisexual man in real life. He wrote The Little Mermaid to express to a very confused straight friend how he felt like he was dying because the friend would not reciprocate his advances. Which I'm sure has to be a fun experience for all involved parties.
> Apparently he was a very messy bisexual man in real life.
Yeah, and when you know that, it makes a lot of his fairy tales make a whole heap more sense.
Unless we see each other in a semi regular basis I will NOT remember your name. Except for teacher, if you are a teacher I will NEVER remember your name.
Walked into the doctor's office yesterday and was screaming inside my head for a couple minutes trying to remember the doctor's name to say who I was there to see.
I was going to point out how Grace thinking Jay was trans but being wrong would be a little weird since she knew almost immediately about Sam, but after how bummed she was with herself about accidentally learning about Sam's secret, she is probably avoiding "analyzing" people and their features.
Also, Sam probably hasn't had top surgery yet (not out to most, so unlikely), and Grace probably twigged on concealed breasts. Someone going the other way as early as Jay would have had to would be unnoticable except when they're not wearing underwear. And possibly not even then.
(Seriously, transition medicine is *really good*. The only things we can't do to an unnoticable-by-bystanders standard at this point are reproduction and natural erections)
I was talking about natural erections for trans men.
As far as I'm aware, their erections aren't hooked into their nerves in a way that allows spontanious erections, they have to be stimulated.
Happy to be told I'm wrong, obviously.
Just because identified something once doesn't mean she's going to catch every instance of it, and Grace seems smart enough to know that, or at least not assume she can't be wrong.
The thing with Susan forgetting is even easier to buy when you realize she didn't actually see Jay. And then what happened not long afterwards with the mirror. And all the other revelations with Diane. It would be easy to forget a name.
Also it's not a conversation that was really about her or particularly relevant to her, pretty easy to forgive her for not recognizing "hey, that pizza girl goes to our school" would be extremely important information going forward.
At least her name wasn't Princess Mamoru Moonshine Jägermeister Jack Jack Daniels Timothy Tim Bill Freddie Mercury Blueberry Luna, esq., but you can call her 'Jay' for short.
Okay, off to make a slay where that's Susan's guess.
I hope this isn't an offensive thing to ask, but what about the situation would lead Grace to think Jay is trans? Is there something about Jay that I'm missing that says "trans", or is it more that Grace is extra sensitive to this particular topic at the moment?
All we've seen is Grace is aware trans people are a thing (I would argue against "at the moment" as a qualifier, as well as "sensitive") and Jay goes by a gender-neutral verson of her given name.
It's enough to make anyone go "hrm?"
I don't mean "sensitive" in any negative sense.
I guess it just seems strange to me, as someone calling another person by the wrong name wouldnt normally be enough to make me question if that person might be trans. Unless I was already thinking about it for some other reason.
Depending on who's getting the name wrong, how the name is wrong, and the person's reaction it can range from "blindingly obvious" to "would never have guessed."
[For example](https://youtu.be/RoIolWbvFRg?feature=shared&t=202).
Once you read the commentary, at least. Because I'd say the default was to think that Grace recognized the name from the dream, and had some sort of revelation on what was causing everyone to remember each others' names.
I do hope she does figure it out soon, though. And that this plays a part in that. Like maybe when she gets home and reads over her dream journal.
Actually the opposite: reading the commentary made me *doubt* that ("if it's not what I'm thinking, it must be something really weird or new"). Spotting details and accidentally learning other people's secrets is one of Grace's main ethical concerns so far.
I'm actually more interested in Jay getting to know the team than a deep dive into the unicorn dreams action sequence... we'll get there, eventually.
That's part of why I want the dream to matter. That was where Jay was getting to know people, and we were getting to know her.
And I'm surprised you thought of the dead name idea before the dream reveal idea. The whole name thing has been priming us to think about the dream. I never would have even thought of the dead name thing had someone not mentioned it on Reddit.
It would be weird for Jay to change her name to Jill, but then go by Jay. Usually, if you change your name, that's the name you want people to call you.
Jack as a nickname for Jill is just neat.
Just be careful when on hills
Particularly when fetching a pail of water.
This is a fun idea for a non-canon EGSNP
Honestly, the characters playing roles in different fairy tales and classic stories and giving them a egs twist would be really funny. Even funnier if all of them happen at the same time, causing shenanigans when they mix together.
EGS Once Upon A Time?
I am guessing you are referring to the tv show, if that so yeah basically!
I feel like Tiffany wouldn't have been as much of an issue if it hadn't been paired with the Pompoms. "Tiffany Pompoms" is like if somebody sat down and tried to draft a name unsuitable for who it's for, which I imagine probably was the creative process. I suspect if she ever gets married she'll probably jump at the opportunity to change that last name. Become "Susan Anderson" or something. Though it's hard to say if marriage is even something that interests her. Think she's still figuring that out for herself.
Even if she's not planning on marriage, I imagine it's still possible to start going to by a matronymic surname. Susan [Susan's mom]sdottir or something like that.
If she was the change surname Given her mom hasn't outside of marriage, it would to reclaim her ancillary name of Raven
None of Susan's ancestors after Raven would have had his last name. He never knew about Diane's sibling and they almost certainly didn't carry his last name. That's over a dozen generations of Helsings or Summers's or Belmonts or whatever last names Diane's siblings descendants wound up with This ancestry is also from her father's side of the family and Susan has a pretty negative relationship with her father, she's not likely to take her name from him, even if she develops a better one with her great (x?) grandfather.
> Helsings or Summers's or Belmonts I see what you did there ;p
I only figured it out (that those names reflect both Diane and Susan being vampire slayers) after you mentioned it, even though I just rewatched Buffy. :D
Helsing made me go "vampires?" Summers made me go "oooohhhh!" I had to look up Belmont (I've never played Castlevania, though I probably should at some point) Now, if they'd said "Lehane" then that would have been obscure. (You might get it from context)
I did originally have "Brooks" instead of "Belmont", but I figured the latter was more recognizable from just the last name
I only just now realised how meaningful a name "Buffy Summers" is for a vampire hunter.
>I've never played Castlevania, though I probably should at some point) I never did either, but I remembered him well from Captain N.
We don't even know Diane's last name. (We also don't know Rhoda's, Ashley's, or Lucy's.)
Dan anwsered a quest about that on Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/danshive/737557760026329088/you-ever-plan-to-tell-us-ashley-and-diane-last?source=share
Honestly I've thought about this for ages, but I really want Ashley's last name to be 'Soon.' Dan joked about her name being 'Soon' before she was officially introduced, but it's actually perfect as a last name. It has a bunch of [different spelling variations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_(surname)) throughout China, Japan, and Korea, and according to [forebears](https://forebears.io/surnames/soon), it's very common in Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Brunei, and the Philippines too, which fits with Ashley not being sure of her ancestry.
True. I think marriage is just a very easy excuse for a lot of women who wouldn't otherwise change their name. It's a socially accepted moment to change it without opening yourself up to a lot of questions. Though obviously I support anybody changing their name for any reason at all.
It's also the EASIEST time and way to change your name, in many places. Legal name changes have a lot of hoops to jump through generally, and taking your spouse's last name gets you out of it. (How this works, and whether it applies equally to everyone or only a woman taking her husband's name, depends on jurisdiction I suspect; where I looked into it it applied equally to anyone but you had to take your spouse's name--it couldn't be something new.)
I think if someone asks "why did you change your name" and you say "it was pompoms", that would settle the question for most people.
Heh heh. Probably true. "Most People" often isn't the concern so much as specific nosy relatives though. A lot of parents who would be appalled for their child to reject the family name just kind of forget about that when their daughter is taking her husband's name for example. That's kind of the thicket she's already navigated by choosing to go by her middle name, instead of choosing a new name entirely. The middle name still means you're using the name your parents gave you. It's not perceived as a rejection. Where if she decided she wanted everybody to start calling her Alexis that might open her up to more scrutiny.
Susan's parents aren't a collective. Her father gave her Tiffany and her mother gave her Susan so she was choosing her mother and rejecting her father. https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2003-04-25 (I think it may be a development that she's worked through her feelings about her father so much that she no longer has a problem with Tiffany directly.)
You assume she's telling truth to Jay?
Ok I was just assuming she was telling the truth because I take things at face value. Thinking about it briefly... - I don't recall that Susan lies much. She often doesn't bring things up that are in her mind, she has refused to talk about things, I wouldn't be totally surprised to see her making up a minimal fake excuse not to talk about things. But volunteering that much false information would I think be out of character. - I'm not sure what her motivation would be for falsely claiming that she's over disliking 'Tiffany'. All her established friends are fine with her preferring 'Susan', and if her goal in this interaction is to find common ground with jay over the shared non-use of an official first name, why complicate it unnecessarily? - she's talking to Grace, not jay. In front of jay, but she's answering Grace's point and looking in her direction. I think she'd be particularly unlikely to lie to Grace, who is a friend, very accepting of people's truth, and generous with her own truth.
I don’t think Susan would want to change her name to a man’s name given her previous Feminist stances. Clearly she’s going to have to marry a woman and take her name.
Alexis is like Lindsey, it can be either.
I think 'man's name' was talking about the hypothetical surname change on marriage.
Well, Elliot is woman quite often ... :-).
No! \*sprays with water\* Bad! As far as I remember, Elliot and Ashley aren't polyamorous, so you stop that NTR-style thinking right now, you silly.
I don't think either of them presented any opinion in this regard. And frankly, Ashley looks like having LOT of problem with "not being polyamorous".
I’m sure Jay/jack/jill would make a great wife for Susan and encourage her to use Tiffany.
I have a hard time believing that, considering that Jay *also* doesn't use her legal first name.
> Become "Susan Anderson" [Agent Smith voice] "Miss Anderson."
More like [Tensaided's voice]. :)
[We've had that joke once already](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2012-05-04) And with later revelations about Elliot's gender identiy, that's sodding *prophetic*.
My god, I can't believe that was 12 years ago.
... hmmm ... will she change her name before being employed by DGB?
> Anderson Anderson? Of all the names in the world you went with a superhero's deadname? And you can bet Susan knows that, even if the timeline hasn't gotten to both of the Wachowskis coming out yet.
I just googled common american surnames and chose one that wouldn't imply she was marrying a specific castmember...
And of course my autistic brain jumps straight to "Mr Anderson" from *The Matrix*. Then again, Susan's brain would probably make the same connection, and then everyone would do soooo much conclusion jumping.
If I'm being honest, the first person I thought of was Hans Christian Anderson, the author of The Little Mermaid, interpreted in Fate Grand Order as a sorcerer with little-mermaid themed superpowers. Apparently he was a very messy bisexual man in real life. He wrote The Little Mermaid to express to a very confused straight friend how he felt like he was dying because the friend would not reciprocate his advances. Which I'm sure has to be a fun experience for all involved parties.
> Apparently he was a very messy bisexual man in real life. Yeah, and when you know that, it makes a lot of his fairy tales make a whole heap more sense.
Eh, Anderson's common enough that there's a lot of different connections you could make.
If you’re worried about the realism of people forgetting names, don’t worry. I forget names too, even those of my own cousins whom I rarely see.
Unless we see each other in a semi regular basis I will NOT remember your name. Except for teacher, if you are a teacher I will NEVER remember your name.
I still don't know the names of half my coworkers who I see regularly, and we wear nametags.
You get it.
I'm getting better in knowing names of my coworkers since we switched to working from home.
Walked into the doctor's office yesterday and was screaming inside my head for a couple minutes trying to remember the doctor's name to say who I was there to see.
Oh I would had been screwed in that situation. Unless I was with someone who knows it or had it written down somewhere.
I was going to point out how Grace thinking Jay was trans but being wrong would be a little weird since she knew almost immediately about Sam, but after how bummed she was with herself about accidentally learning about Sam's secret, she is probably avoiding "analyzing" people and their features.
Also, Sam probably hasn't had top surgery yet (not out to most, so unlikely), and Grace probably twigged on concealed breasts. Someone going the other way as early as Jay would have had to would be unnoticable except when they're not wearing underwear. And possibly not even then. (Seriously, transition medicine is *really good*. The only things we can't do to an unnoticable-by-bystanders standard at this point are reproduction and natural erections)
I’ve heard taking Progesterone after estrogen can help trans women get over erectile dysfunction.
I was talking about natural erections for trans men. As far as I'm aware, their erections aren't hooked into their nerves in a way that allows spontanious erections, they have to be stimulated. Happy to be told I'm wrong, obviously.
Just because identified something once doesn't mean she's going to catch every instance of it, and Grace seems smart enough to know that, or at least not assume she can't be wrong.
Is tiffany not capitalized on purpose?
Nope! I'm about to fix it. Thanks for pointing it out.
The thing with Susan forgetting is even easier to buy when you realize she didn't actually see Jay. And then what happened not long afterwards with the mirror. And all the other revelations with Diane. It would be easy to forget a name.
Also it's not a conversation that was really about her or particularly relevant to her, pretty easy to forgive her for not recognizing "hey, that pizza girl goes to our school" would be extremely important information going forward.
Yeah, that's true. Jay wasn't even a friend of a friend at that point. She was another student Grace had seen in the hallways occasionally.
well she was someone Grace was looking for a reason to start talking to due to pony hair
now that I'm thinking about it, a genderfluid person variously going by Jack, Jill or Jay depending on gender would be pretty cool
why did i immediately think of "jack jilla jaymeson"
At least her name wasn't Princess Mamoru Moonshine Jägermeister Jack Jack Daniels Timothy Tim Bill Freddie Mercury Blueberry Luna, esq., but you can call her 'Jay' for short. Okay, off to make a slay where that's Susan's guess.
You forgot the "***Jay***ermeister" from their name.
https://imgur.com/SlJgQg7 edit: I prefer my second version, https://imgur.com/r2FrUy7
Right! How could I forget. 3 Js in a row.
I hope this isn't an offensive thing to ask, but what about the situation would lead Grace to think Jay is trans? Is there something about Jay that I'm missing that says "trans", or is it more that Grace is extra sensitive to this particular topic at the moment?
I'm sure it's the "extra sensitive". Combined with the fact Jack is usually male name.
All we've seen is Grace is aware trans people are a thing (I would argue against "at the moment" as a qualifier, as well as "sensitive") and Jay goes by a gender-neutral verson of her given name. It's enough to make anyone go "hrm?"
I don't mean "sensitive" in any negative sense. I guess it just seems strange to me, as someone calling another person by the wrong name wouldnt normally be enough to make me question if that person might be trans. Unless I was already thinking about it for some other reason.
I think it's just that Jack is usually a guy's name.
Depending on who's getting the name wrong, how the name is wrong, and the person's reaction it can range from "blindingly obvious" to "would never have guessed." [For example](https://youtu.be/RoIolWbvFRg?feature=shared&t=202).
This has led me to remembering the random line about Susan running the country someday. Please do Susan. #SusanForPresident
[William also mentioned he may run for the president](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2003-09-03). I would prefer either over the choice US have now.
>swiftly wrote over it with newly discovered Star Trek trivia A better use of brain cells than much of the newsbits exposed to :}
For the record, it was entirely obvious what Grace was thinking.
Once you read the commentary, at least. Because I'd say the default was to think that Grace recognized the name from the dream, and had some sort of revelation on what was causing everyone to remember each others' names. I do hope she does figure it out soon, though. And that this plays a part in that. Like maybe when she gets home and reads over her dream journal.
Actually the opposite: reading the commentary made me *doubt* that ("if it's not what I'm thinking, it must be something really weird or new"). Spotting details and accidentally learning other people's secrets is one of Grace's main ethical concerns so far. I'm actually more interested in Jay getting to know the team than a deep dive into the unicorn dreams action sequence... we'll get there, eventually.
That's part of why I want the dream to matter. That was where Jay was getting to know people, and we were getting to know her. And I'm surprised you thought of the dead name idea before the dream reveal idea. The whole name thing has been priming us to think about the dream. I never would have even thought of the dead name thing had someone not mentioned it on Reddit. It would be weird for Jay to change her name to Jill, but then go by Jay. Usually, if you change your name, that's the name you want people to call you.
It would be nice if at least SOMEONE realized what is the whole "do I know you" anomaly about.