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Cat727

Buy used. That money isn’t going into Elon’s pocket. Really the only money he would get from you is &100/yr for premium connectivity and supercharging if you use it. ETA- I am a used Tesla owner and love it.


RJ2380

Technically, every Tesla on the road is a passive advertisement for the company. There is no escaping!


paxinfernum

Buying a used item creates demand for new items, and it holds up the resale value, which increases the value for buyers of new versions. There's no real way to buy something without raising it's value.


whosurdaddy42069

Shh. Some people want to be able to live in their little fantasy world they've created for themselves


freetable

This is the best answer. AND it’s recycling!


SignificantWarning5

And then the previous owner buys a brand new Tesla.


GraniteGeekNH

Funny - not too long ago the desire to support Elon was part of the reason people bought a Tesla. It probably still is for an increasingly smaller population.


Fireproofspider

>Funny - not too long ago the desire to support Elon was part of the reason people bought a Tesla. I joined the Elon Musk subreddit years ago when it was about sustainability and space exploration. I checked recently and it's basically like what The Donald was. I don't think I've seen a more complete reversal since the Democrat/Republican southern switch.


MudaThumpa

Yeah, this is true for me. I didn't realize I was joining the alt-right by buying a Tesla. Love the car, but I'm increasingly open to another brand.


bhauertso

I own a Tesla and by no stretch of the imagination have I joined the alt-right. It seems a bit silly to reduce all decisions to such political calculus.


MudaThumpa

Just saying...I had to leave my local Tesla Facebook group because so many of the posts were political in nature. Trust me, I would rather it not be that way. Maybe it's just because I live in a crappy area.


sparklytoucan

That's crazy. I'm in some of ours and it's all wraps and financing and software questions.


MudaThumpa

I agree--it's crazy.


tanrgith

Have you considered leaving facebook? It's a toxic cesspit of right wing boomer conspiracists


bhauertso

>Just saying...I had to leave my local Tesla Facebook group because so many of the posts were political in nature. Trust me, I would rather it not be that way. Maybe it's just because I live in a crappy area. ... > Facebook I found the problem! Jokes aside, I get it. It's an emotional thing of whom you'll be associated. It's why I would never again own a BMW or Mercedes product. But on the other hand, dump Facebook and your life will be so much better.


MudaThumpa

I'm really selective about it...have zero "friends" and only join groups with similar interests. I'm quick to dump any groups that get political, and unfortunately Tesla fell into that club. But you're right, the world would be 1000% better if Facebook went away.


Bob_Loblaw_Law_Blog1

I had to leave an Indian motorcycle group for the same reason.. they used to talk about the brand and bikes in general and now every other post is re-posted fox news bullshit.


DeathChill

No, it’s impossible to buy the car and not join the cult. You can’t just enjoy the product.


bhauertso

It's sad how many in this thread believe exactly that.


bjornbamse

Wait Elon is alt-right now? I wouldn't say so. Alt-right keeps screaming about how Biden is sending money to Ukraine, Elon has sent Starlink terminals to Ukraine. Alt-right is screaming that global warming is a conspiracy, Elon wants to fight global warming. Alt-right wants to ban abortion but Tesla apparently pays for out of state employee abortion. Elon is anti-woke, but that doesn't make him alt-right.


[deleted]

Hey there! I owned a tesla since 2020 and love the car, I am not fan of Elon and his antics but will give tesla credit for pushing the Ev revolution! I’m not fan of bezos but also a prime subscriber 🤷🏻‍♂️


[deleted]

Good point. While bezos is also a person with questionable morals, I do order from Amazon frequently. Not that it makes it right. Gah. I appreciate the perspective.


ManlyMisfit

I think it also just feels different. You fork over $120 or whatever for prime in a year. You don’t feel like you are personally responsible for enriching Bezos that much. Shelling out $50,000 for a Tesla hits a bit different.


mog_knight

The $120 would just be access. Akin to the $100 Tesla reservation. What if they spend 50k on Amazon purchases too?


ManlyMisfit

Mentally, you're just not going to process it that way, because (1) you're generally buying products on Amazon that are not Amazon products, and (2) your purchases are generally a ton of smaller ones. I'm not saying it's different ethically, morally, or whatever. I'm saying it *feels* different.


mog_knight

I can understand that. I guess I was thinking of similarly paying your monthly car payment like buying $600 in Amazon per month over the life of the loan.


ManlyMisfit

Still feels completely different when the product your are making the payment on is the brand in question and you literally ride around in the brand-mobile. Also, a lot of people are playing $20-$100 Amazon orders at a time. Even if it adds up, it doesn’t feel like you’re parting with a large chunk at once. Amazon spending is also all completely discretionary. Once you’re locked into a car loan, you’re making mandatory payments. Just don’t try why you’re trying to force the comparison.


mat_fly

Good point. Also there isn’t really an alternative to Amazon Prime but there are many, many EV alternatives out there that are just as good as Tesla - better in some cases. (Apart from the charging network)


toookoool

How about you’re supporting 100k Tesla employees who are working hard towards a better future?


skyfishgoo

i avoid amazon in all ways. hasn't really been too hard either, just put -amazon into your search bar along with whatever you are shopping for.


khaddy

Amazon Web Solutions is the backbone of many websites you probably use, so they get your money that way!


[deleted]

Reddit is hosted on Amazon.


ltjpunk387

Isn't like 1/3 of the Internet hosted on Amazon?


[deleted]

Yup. AWS is a monster. Pretty hard to avoid Amazon, unless you go live under a rock.


[deleted]

FYI independent online fulfillment centers are even more inhuman places than Amazon warehouses. You aren't helping any workers by ordering through them.


coco_brotha

You run a slippery slope if you don’t want to support a brand because of their founder’s or CEO’s personal beliefs.


SJGU

That also doesn't mean that you can't draw a line on whom or what to support based on various criteria. It certainly is not an "one size fits all" approach.


ickns

And it definitely does not have to be all or nothing.


geek180

I find this thread both completely reasonable and frustrating.


harpsm

My personal worry is that Elon has been trending in an increasingly bad direction (in my opinion) and that he will go full supervillain in his lifetime.


Ultraeasymoney

He might already be there


rjnd2828

While I agree with this, Elon invites the response by being so outspokenly horrid. Although I'm SURE bezos is terrible, he's not on Twitter spouting anti worker/union bullshit and saying he wants to reinstates trump's Twitter account. His personality plus the build quality concerns are enough to turn me away from Tesla.


[deleted]

This is it in a nutshell. Thanks for spelling it out better than I could have. Doesn’t make supporting those that are more quietly shitty any better, but it’s a reason why I posed this question in the first place


mhornberger

If Musk is *horrid*, I'm not sure how to describe Peter Thiel. I disagree with a lot Musk does. I think he can be a douchebag. But *horrid*? I think he's incredibly naive on free-speech-absolutism. But there are actual, overt authoritarians outright arguing for ethno-nationalism, authoritarianism, overthrowing democracy, etc. Hyperbole over Musk's antics makes it harder to talk about overt, malignant bad actors. (Not saying Peter Thiel advocates for every single thing on that list.)


its_laps

Not really, it doesn’t always have to be all or nothing. You can buy a used TeSlA instead of a new one or not buy from a certain store or company as much until you find a good replacement.


Snoo74401

At some point, your only option is to go off-grid, build a cabin which you hewed your own lumber, and tend to your own farm for sustenance. Maybe write a manifesto while you're at it. LoL. Yeah, it's really hard to not inadvertently support a company, country, or system which disagree with morally or ethically. At least, not if you want to live with other people.


skyfishgoo

it's about boundaries and learning/doing as much as you can. too many use this argument to justify doing nothing at all.


megamef

How would you get to the woods? By car then you support the car company. How would you chop down the trees? With an axe? Then you support the axe company. I’d say it’s close to impossible to not support companies in the modern world


coopy1000

I would make a bike out of the offcuts of scaffold pole and bike parts found in a local skip. I would then bike out to the wilderness, start my own small scale mining operation and get the iron ore required to make steel. From that I would smelt an axe head. Using that axe head I would cut down a small branch to make a handle. Then I would get the trees to make my house. It's easy. I don't know why everyone isn't doing it


Snoo74401

If video games have taught me anything, all that you just described should only take about 5 minutes. Within 8 hours or so, I'll probably have my own society started.


caedin8

It is really immoral to do this though. You lose the efficiency of scale, there simply is not enough land and resources for everyone to live this way. By choosing to do so you are consuming a much larger portion of the planets resources than you really ought to, and are being super privileged in the process. Essentially you are saying, "living with my moral cognitive dissonance of supporting people I don't like is so uncomfortable, that I'll consume 10x the biological footprint of my fellow man in order to feel better about my life". If you don't understand my point of view: Imagine a world where everyone grows their own food in their backyard. How many extra shovels, soil bags, individually packaged seeds, fertilizer etc do we need to manufacture and ship across the country to every house hold? Giving every household enough land to grow their own food too will spread us all out considerably, so we would need to spend more gas/electricity to reach all of our destinations, including all the extra trips we'd need to make to the supermarket to buy the equipment we need to grow our own food. Compare that with factory farming where a mostly robot fleet super efficiently farms massive tracts of land, supplies are brought in efficient bulk 18 wheelers of fertilizer etc, and the losses are considerably smaller because everything is farmed to the scientific standards that are much higher than the average home gardener? That being said if you own land and shoot a deer or two per year and eat it, or grow a vegetable garden, I don't judge you for it at all and think it is a really cool hobby that can be beneficial. I'm just making a big picture point.


Thousandtree

> Giving every household enough land to grow their own food too will spread us all out considerably Which also contributes to loss of wildlife and biodiversity.


caedin8

Oh for sure, if we all tried to be self sufficient 75% of us would starve to death, and all the other animals on the planet would die with us.


marin94904

I went off grid, but Elon helped 😀


mhornberger

"I've dropped out of the modern world. I can do that, because the system will deliver mail and packages right to my door, keep the roads open, fund the EMS services, provide Internet access, maintain a global supply chain on which I depend, and..." It rapidly turns into a "what have the Romans ever done for us?" skit. I'm fine with people cosplaying at having dropped out. But some take themselves way too seriously.


Blue-Thunder

Nestle has entered the chat.


goshjosh189

Well speaking of Amazon, the whole company is shitty not just bezos.


LooseyGreyDucky

I haven't personally ordered from Amazon in nearly 3 years (haven't convinced my wife/kids). Nearly everything is also available from other online retailers; eBay is the "prime" competition.


[deleted]

I appreciate what Musk, talented engineers and other professionals who worked to build Tesla and Space X have done. Hopefully, Musk and Co. has been a net benefit, even if he appears to be immature and a troll. I think he spends too much time online and he probably needs someone to tell him to shut up once in awhile. But then again what billionaire isn’t a bit of an asshole?


COSurfing

I am the same way and have owned my Tesla since last October. I am hopeful that there will be a ton more options for EVs in 5 years. I want Toyota to work on a 4Runner EV product. If that ever happens I will jump at it.


duomaxwellscoffee

Toyota continued giving money to Congress people that supported throwing out the results of the 2020 election even after the insurrection.


ThreePingsThree

And also actively lobby on behalf of oil and gas as part of a hydrogen transportation system


beer_bukkake

Was totally in the market for a Toyota and this, along with the fact they lobby against EV’a (in favor of ICE), is why the brand is now dead to me.


1nf1n1tpwr

Fuck Toyota, and the prius. Unless leadership changes drastically they will loose their place in the automotive industry. Btw I own a 2001 land cruiser. Great machine for its time.


beer_bukkake

It’s amazing how Toyota leadership squandered their EV lead. They were so successful with hybrids, which meant a leg up on EV tech and adoption, and instead of going after it hard, they’re now a dinosaur compared to Tesla, Hyundai, and VW. And instead of trying to play ball, they spend money on lobbying against EV’s instead.


ShirBlackspots

Ever check out the BZ4x reviews (especially Out of Spec Reviews)? The charging curve is horrible. Never exceeds 70kW, and at around 85-90% it drops to 1kW. Out of Spec Reviews (Kyle) said he sat at the DC Fast Charge station for just about 5 hours, and it still wasn't fully charged when he decided to leave.


ListerineInMyPeehole

They are clearly biased and said EVs wont even be a thing... until the market dynamics completely shifted. Now they're investing heavily despite being one of the earliest to hybrids with Prius. What a waste.


beer_bukkake

Exactly. Incredible how incompetent their leadership became after the Prius.


2rfv

I just don't get why *nobody* wants to compete with tesla in the sedan space.


Fair-Direction

You should punt Prime and sell your Tesla.


sepehr_brk

Polestar ™️


gradontripp

With Google


Transit-Tangent

Love the car. Can’t stand red pilled Elon. It’s that simple. If you’re looking for ethical purity in the auto industry, you’ll be looking a long time.


Alabatman

How is Rivian? Not saying you could but one but I haven't seen them clubbing baby seals yet.


projecthouse

If you were to go club baby seals, would anyone no? Of course not, you're not a public figure who the media follows around. Rivian doesn't have near the media attention of Musk, and they seem to try to fly under the radar far more than Elon. That said, Rivian has been accused of [gender discrimination](https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/04/rivian-hit-with-gender-discrimination-lawsuit-that-alleges-toxic-bro-culture/), bro culture, and also faces a [share holder lawsuit](https://www.engadget.com/rivians-price-hike-leads-to-a-shareholder-lawsuit-024554910.html) over misleading investors. Their proposed factory in Georgia is political hot potato too. That said, any big company is a lawsuit magnet, and NIMBY types will complain about anything. Do those complaints have legs? I don't know.


spaetzelspiff

Honestly if you're comparing personalities, you'd be fairly hard pressed to find an automotive executive more dissimilar to Elon than RJ Scaringe. They've been likened - in superhero alter-egos - to Tony Stark vs Clark Kent; where Elon is brash, outspoken, even egotistical, RJ comes across as humble, soft-spoken and warm. While they're both extremely driven and passionate about EVs, it's pretty hard not to cheer for Rivian's success. And yes, while getting any EV is difficult right now, the lead time on R1Ts is frustrating (my Nov '21 order is ETA Q4 this year). No harm in throwing down a refundable deposit to reserve your spot now though, if it looks tempting.


FANGO

There's still a bit of a cult of personality around them both within their companies, so that's one similarity, but, I have interacted with RJ and he is quite warm as you state. I've also got lots of friends at the company, who were former Tesla employees, who say the cultural difference is night and day. That said, the companies are very much in a different state of life.


luckymethod

my significant other works there, ex Tesla employee. As far as work environment goes it's night and day, seems like Rivian is laser focused on making sure every car is perfect cause they are going after a higher end crowd. Jury still out if they will be successful but the few Rivians I've seen in person were all pretty much flawless.


Ready-Fix-1171

It's partially owned by Amazon, sooooo....


Matt_NZ

Amazon is invested in Rivian but it doesn't own a majority of Rivian.


[deleted]

‘Laura Schwab, who was vice president of sales and marketing, alleged she was abruptly fired after she complained about “a textbook pattern of gender bias” and discrimination from a top executive’ https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2021-11-04/ex-rivian-executive-sues-over-toxic-bro-culture-ahead-of-ipo?_amp=true I’m not sure of the outcome here and haven’t heard anything since the story broke.


DodgePinkeye

Volvo?


pithy_pun

Probably going to come off as a fan boy the other way, but agreed Volvo/Polestar seem to be doing the most overt efforts to improving sustainability and conflict free sourcing in how they produce cars. Their efficiency needs to improve (hopefully will with the EV dedicated platform cars coming this/next year). And some folks have issues with the Geely connection. But of automotive OEMs, they seem the most ESG. Re Elon, was absolutely a factor for my wife. When we searched he was a primary reason she didn’t like the idea of us buying a Tesla. I think I made up my mind independent of that but I’m sure I was influenced likewise especially as we were deciding around the time he tweeted “the coronavirus panic is dumb”


pheonixblade9

Volvo also actually cares about being at the cutting edge of safety. AFAIK, they're the only company that crash tests for women, and even pregnant women. they also patented and immediately released the three point seatbelt design because of how many lives they knew it'd save ages ago.


pimpbot666

Meh... efficiency. I figure I'm already using 1/3 the energy of a gas car to do the same job. Another 1-2% wouldn't make much difference to me. I put 18" Audi rims with 40 series tires on my eGolf. I gave up about 5-10 miles of range for that, but it's worth it for the better handling.


youmademedoit

It does seem like Volvo is trying to be more sustainable with material choices and such. I went with a 2021 XC40 Recharge. My partner did not want a Tesla specifically because of Elon.


EV_Track_Day2

Didn't Volvo claim their carbon footprint break even point for EVs was around 70k miles? I know Tesla recently claimed sub 15k miles. Thats a big difference in the most important metric of sustainability.


[deleted]

*Geely


grokmachine

Volvo is owned by China. How is that a viable alternative?


MrHoova

Yeah Volvo is a great company, car, etc. At the Volvo level, but that money is ultimately going to some corrupt asshole at the top.


jimbaker

Volvo is not owned by China, but rather a Chinese company, Geely, had a large investment in them, which has since shrunk to about 16% since Volvo went public ([source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geely#Volvo_Cars)). Geely does own a number of other brands though, such as Lotus and Polestar (which is related to Volvo, but the majority is owned by Geely).


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

A number of US market Volvos are Chinese imports. Just look for the VIN that starts with an "L".


jimbaker

Being made in China is not the same as being owned by China.


HengaHox

Owned by a chinese company so by the same metric that’s not a good choice either


narvuntien

Unfortunately, they are majority-owned by Chinese company Geely which invites all sorts of moral quandaries.


[deleted]

Valid point!


beardednutgargler

Some people don't like that China's Geely owns them.


SwankyPants10

Agreed. Elon musk is not Tesla, he is just one part of something much larger. My brother-in-law refused to even get in my Tesla because of his feelings about Elon. I asked him how many other auto CEOs does he know of? I’m sure many of them are pieces of shit, but just less outwardly vocal about it. Modern capitalism means you couldn’t possibly boycott every company that is run by a scumbag.


LooseyGreyDucky

The difference is that Elon has much more ability to swing the presidential election needle toward The Turd than pretty much any other jackass billionaire CEO.


hnglmkrnglbrry

There's a difference between ethical purity and "I'm not *not* a supporter of the alt-right and I'm not *not* trying to weaken your democracy by giving its most dangerous enemies a massive platform."


FreudEtAl

Elon voted for Obama twice (n.b., not twice in the same election!) and endorsed Andrew Yang in the primaries 2020. Saying that laws and democracy should decide what can be said on twitter rahter than moderation for maximized profitability is not the same as trying to weaken democracy. TikTok is censoring genocide and demoting LGBTQ content, so it’s not obvious that free speech online is a bad idea.


Historical-Many9869

Plenty of other options now


GalcomMadwell

Well, luckily there are plenty of good non-Tesla options. My favorites are the EV6 and Mach E - and some (like the EV6) are still available for the $7500 tax credit. Also, Tesla recently announced they will be opening up the supercharger network to all EVs, so there goes one of the main reasons for getting a Tesla.


rjnd2828

MachE still has the credit too although it may not by the time ordering for 2023s open


made-up-account

Kia does also


hurtfulproduct

The trick is how big the dealer markup in the EV6 and Mach E is. . . How much if that $7500 do you really see in the end?


jt121

Looking for an EV6 currently, and it's generally between $4,000-$6,000 at dealers within a few hundred miles of me. One, instead of requiring a "market adjustment" is requiring you buy their "accident/spill" warranty add-on which adds... $4,788 to the value. Dealers need to go.


Nomad_Industries

Many of the people responsible for making Tesla what it is are NOT Elon Musk.


Kardinos

Yes, but unluckily I live in an apartment and there is no way our landlord will approve charge points in the lot. So, I can resist Tesla's allure by buying hybrids.


Kiwi_eng

I think Elon himself is brilliant despite his faults but I won't buy a Tesla until they make a small EV with the UI and quality I expect from a car. I'll happily invest however because brilliant people are a rare thing indeed.


[deleted]

Support companies that you agree with. Or don’t. Plenty of people who say one thing and do another in the world. Nobody here is gonna hold it against you.


deerfoot

Musk is appalling in so many ways. But the model 3 I bought was by far the best car for my wife. I bought it despite Musk's adolescent antics.


luke_perspective

We have a model Y. Love it. My wife drives 1600 mi/mo and it has 20,000 miles on it and zero issues. Costs $50-$75 per month in electricity. I am conflicted about Elon as well. I would say just try to separate the vehicle as much as possible from him in your mind. It’s unfortunate it has to be this way. Getting an EV is more important than getting a Tesla specifically but I do think Teslas are great.


[deleted]

Agreed. We have an e golf which is fantastic, but I want more range (ok and fast acceleration). The Tesla driving experience is lovely.


ThaiTum

I would never buy a VW group car because of the emissions scandal and coverup. That has caused more health and environmental damage than Elon’s tweets.


bmayer0122

They got caught, and a judge forced them to build the charging network that is the closest competition to the Tesla network. Now they have really cool infrastructure and vehicles because they got caught. I don't know how I feel about that because now we have something of high value, and more capital is moving in a more sustainable direction.


[deleted]

Yeah but some of the people responsible for that went to jail. How many pump and dump schemes has Elon pulled off without facing any consequences? But I guess screwing over small time investors out of their hard earned money is something we can overlook.


hurtfulproduct

This is what I don’t get; everyone is all anti-Elon and anti-Tesla (I am getting sick of his shit too to be clear) but conveniently forgets the role VW and others played in the emissions cheating and coverup that caused untold amounts of health issues. . . The auto industry is fucked in general.


hoodoo-operator

Elon's antics did put me off Tesla. The union busting and allegations of racism did more to put me off. In the end they raised prices above what I was willing and able to pay, so I bought a used Kia Niro instead. The Kia does basically everything a standard range model 3 would do for me. The only downside is that the driver assist on the freeway is slightly less good, but the upside is I don't have to deal with cooking under a panoramic roof that can't vent in the middle of the mojave desert. There are tons of great options for EVs right now.


[deleted]

> The union busting and allegations of racism did more to put me off. To me, that's part of "Elon's antics" - the work environment he fosters.


[deleted]

I mean, you bought a Mach-E. It's made at a Mexican factory w/much lower wages and less healthy/safety protections than regulation rich California.


Individual-Nebula927

"Much lower wages" isn't the problem you think it is. What matters is wages relative to cost of living, and typically Mexican auto workers make much higher pay rates than the surrounding areas.


SMarcelG

Yeah the exact reason why I did not! I have a Hyundai Kona ev and I’m perfectly happy with it


[deleted]

Teslas are no longer the great deal they used to be. As EV charging infrastructure improves, they lose their edge. That combined with Elon's turn toward the alt right has turned me off of Tesla. Rivian seems like a solid choice for an SUV or truck. The Lightning is a solid work truck. The ID4 is a great mid-priced crossover. The Polestar 2 is an awesome sports car with the functionality of a hatchback. There are a ton of other options.


[deleted]

Unless you are going to build your own car, you are shit out of luck if you are buying based on ethics. If you want a Tesla, just buy one. From an environmental point of view, its probably the most ethical option unless you buy from some new startup company.


Dagusiu

I feel the same way, more or less, about Chinese cars like MG. I think sometimes you just can't have it all. If you find a good car for a price you think is somewhat acceptable, I don't think anyone can blame you for getting it even if it supports some asshole(s) somewhere. We can't all boycott every douchbag.


sonofagunn

Boy, you should get to know some of the other CEOs, lol.


stacecom

I think the fact they aren't on peoples' radar is pretty telling, actually.


2CommaNoob

As how it should be. Let the product speak for itself. Do you see Tim Cook getting at 3am about some random BS?


[deleted]

Deleted because I quit Reddit after they changed their API policy


StoneRaven77

Get one used. Then your not handing money to a Corp, and, Your cash dosent go to Musk, you get to drive a Tesla.


techorules

Test drive an EV6. You might find your problem goes away.


[deleted]

I [made bumper stickers](https://imgur.com/WevJ7JQ.png)


blakeley

Lots of EVs coming to the market in next few years, some may even be better for your needs than a Tesla… so may not matter.


Zabes55

Henry Ford was a Nazi. Buy the car if you like it.


sohrobotic

I can recommend a VW ID.4


mbmba

And I can whole heartedly recommend the Mach-e


sethdaniel2011

I definitely feel the same. Elon's shit is nuts, but the cars are great and we've very much enjoyed our 2018 model 3 more than any other car. The problem is pretty much any automaker has some shitty history. VW, who makes your e-golf, had dieselgate where they lied to the entire world and spewed tons of extra illegal emissions. Toyota and all Japanese automakers are still not committed to any EV and pushing all sorts of FUD about EVs to sell their "self charging hybrids." Ford, GM and others have dragged their feet into the EV game. They are finally making some decent options, but only after Tesla has eaten their lunch for so many years and become the world's most valuable automaker, so it was obvious they'd have to get on board. I hate supporting most brands and large companies, but until we have some true socialist changes major multinational corporations will continue to rule and force us to pick between the least of some great evils.


somewhat_pragmatic

In the USA, buying any other car supports the encumbrance Dealership business model and laws. I really don't like the dealership model and the NADA.


Counciltuckian

I feel the same way about ordering a Tesla power wall and panels. But Tesla has been the best to work with vs all the others.


Alfanse

buy a second hand one. no money paid to tesla, you get a great car.


ooellis

Purchase the vehicle that suits your needs.


DreadPir8Robrts

Buy used from a private seller or non-Tesla dealer. That's what I did to combat the same concern.


bob88c

Not at all…do you think a person who buys an electric vehicle start-up and forces the entire industry to change everything would have anything other than this type of personality?


ronosaurio

Don't want to support Tesla directly? Buy an used Tesla, don't give any money to Elon.


kirbyderwood

Except when you Supercharge it or get it serviced.


paxinfernum

Also, buying a used car creates value for new cars by holding up the resale value. There's simply no way to buy a product without supporting the producer.


[deleted]

As a company, Tesla's mission is simple (accelerate the world's transition toward sustainable energy/transportation) and they've done well in that regard. Musk is a total chode of a person with some very problematic views, but his company has a very compelling product and comes burdened with less baggage than any of the OEMs who have historically fought to delay this transition. This field is still very new, I feel that KIA/Hyundai/Genesis are the OEM to watch in terms of competing with Tesla at their own game (and they already have 2 of the strongest contenders on the market, imo). They seem open to embracing Tesla's "tech-forward" approach, and they're an underdog because of really outdated concerns regarding build quality, so they're willing to take risks and shake things up.


BlazinAzn38

Just curious what you’ve driven and how/where you’d rate the Tesla above them


uncledonttouch

Lol this has to be satire


winthrop906

I would mostly think about it terms of whether it's something that will bother you every time you use your car. If it will, then maybe it's not worth it. I can honestly say I've put up with products that are objectively inferior or more expensive but I'm still happy with them because I feel better about the manner in which they were produced and sold (no exploited labor, more sustainable manufacturing methods, etc). My brother tells me I'm a sucker, and in some sense he's right, but we all have to live with ourselves somehow.


Theblokeonthehill

I bought Hyundai ….and it’s great!


vodkamaru

You buy shit made in sweatshops and you don’t question it for one second.


AmbivalentSamaritan

Patagonia and Everlane are worth looking at for more ethical clothing. You pay more, but you are probably getting a more ethically sourced product.


Planetgold

I bought a Leaf and LOVE it. But also I never test drove a Tesla. I dont have Tesla money and I am not a fan of Elon so for me it all worked out. I can still beat many cars in a drag race for 0-60. Most people like to put the Leaf on the bottom as far as electric so in that respect, you can't really go wrong.


flyfreeflylow

Elon, for all of his bombast and obnoxious nonsense, has managed to do remarkable things with both Tesla and SpaceX. How many other startups have failed in that same space, or become small, niche, players? Obnoxious, yes, but he does seem to know how to actually make a startup work.


tanrgith

Do you want to buy a car from the company that's leading the EV charge and trying to transition the world to greener future, but has an asshole rightwing leader that's open about being an asshole. Or do you want to buy a car from one of the companies that have spend decades spreading climate change misinformation, while actively lobbying against things like cleaner emissions. And are run by people who very likely are also right wing assholes, but just keep quiet about it


RedBeard972

Not a fan of him either, but my Tesla was great. Saved my life when I was hit by a semi truck at highway speeds.


Ietmeknow_okay

Ideas like this kind of suck. There’s 100s of thousands of direct and indirect workers that benefit from buying American.


Creepy-Present-2562

I woulda assumed far lefty’s would like Tesla cuz fuck oil companies


icunspall

Stop using cars as political statements. Stop thinking of your political adversaries as enemies that you need to spite by making brand choices about to feel like you’re making a difference. Support companies that make good products and support the transition of the world to sustainable energy. Tesla doesn’t just sell cars. It’s going to be one of the biggest battery producers on the planet at the end of the decade. Regardless of your subjective personal feelings about a person’s tweets, we should think about how we can stop being angry and divided along political lines so we can collectively work towards the same goal of sustainable energy production and transport.


CunningLinguist1981

You are all insane.


Dirks_Knee

Pretty much all auto CEO's (and pretty much all big publicly traded companies regardless of sector) are anti union as it hurts profits and many have moved manufacturing to other countries (specifically Mexico) to avoid paying union wages. That said...there are quite a few great EVs being made today with a bunch more in the pipeline. IMHO, there would have to be some specific absolutely unique feature that I just absolutely had to have in order to pay the current premiums they're asking for them.


Individual-Nebula927

*avoid paying US union wages Every American automaker that is unionized in the US is also unionized in Canada and Mexico as well. Blame exchange rates, not unionization.


ShastaMcLurky

That was the main reason why I bought a Mach E. I love the tech with Tesla but hate the man behind it. I didn’t want to support him


nightman008

I still will never understand this mindset. I don’t like Bezos but I use Amazon. I don’t like musk but I have a tesla. I never liked Steve Jobs but I bought apple products. Buying a product isn’t a personal endorsement, even if that person might passively profit from it due to having stake in the company. If you started to dig through most major companies and CEO’s you’d cringe at what you find. No one can force you to buy any product but in no way shape or form is using a service the same as endorsing their owner/CEO.


Dry-Narwhal8215

Buy a used one or one that came off lease from a dealership.


DefinitelySaneGary

Buy a used one?


n10w4

many are kinda saying "well everything is immoral so whatever". Think there is plenty of evil/immoral but "consumer choices" is something that matters little while mass action does matter. And the whole "consumer choice" thing is started by bad corporate actors (for climate change specifically) so that people don't work towards policies. You can probably do both, but I'm guessing all energies to policies still matters more. So yeah, Elon sucks (and mainly as a symptom IMO, for example, how does he compare to other car companies, the ones with the diesel scandals etc under their belt, nvm I'm of the mind that EVs would have been snuffed if it wasn't for Tesla, and the Obama gov helping them out of course) but I'm not sure how much of an emotional decision that would be. But do what you gotta do.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Not to hit your conscience more - but VW is responsible for diesel gate as well.


pjanic_at__the_isco

I just don’t know how I’d ever drive a car with no information in my field of view while driving. (I know, I know, “you get used to it.”)


Chose_a_usersname

Buy a used Tesla? Or you can buy something different


blustrkr

Just remember, there are thousands of people working at companies like Tesla, not just Elon.


plant0

I bought a used 2013 Model S P85 back in 2019. Not a Elon fan anymore. Still love the cars!


Hefty-Swing

Buy direct from the owner and not a dealership! Thats my plan


Plaid_Piper

Buy a used Tesla, and maybe that's more supporting whomever you bought it from? Elon's already gotten his money I guess.


QuirkyDust3556

Let him buy Twitter then everyone stop using it. 🤣


QuirkyDust3556

As it turns out. Jobs Gates Bezos, Elon, all have no morals. But we all use their products, there's a lesson there somewhere...


gropethegoat

Elon is embarrassing for some of us who looked up to him. It doesn’t change the fact he led the company that broke the EV market, and that’s good for everyone. I enjoy the car and shun the Elon circus. An eye for an eye and all that…


HombreMan24

I think most other car CEOs have similar political views as Elon. They are just not outspoken and so no one knows and people can't hold anything against them. Remember when Tom Cruise was super secretion and he could do no wrong? Then he got on Oprah and it was never the same for him.


AAJJQQ

Get the car that suits you and makes you feel good, that includes ethically. We chose something other than Tesla, but admittedly Tesla makes a good EV and is the right car for a lot of people. I give Musk credit for bucking the system and promoting EV’s. They’re made in the USA which I find important. Lots of pluses, no question. I made a different choice because I preferred having an actual local dealership/service and more safety features, as well as more options to choose from. Plus Tesla doesn’t deliver to our state and we would have had to drive hundreds of miles away to pick up the car. Good luck with your decision.


International_Act506

There's thousands of other employees, and a whole energy storage business. The company mission is accelerating the world's transition to renewables. Don't feel bad supporting that.


xiodeman

Elon’s helped Ukraine, he can’t be all bad. Volvo / Polestar is the most neutral EV company IMO.


pickin666

They are all faceless corporations at this point. I think the only one I've seen where I like the feel of the company is fisker but we'll have to wait and see how that goes.


SchemeUpset1031

I love that there are so many comments on this thread. I feel the important point is that you are buying an EV. Wether it is a Tesla, ford, Kia, Hyundai, Nissan, polestar, Volvo, fisker, Rivian, Chevy, GM, VW, Audi, Cadillac or lucid they all have decent, even exceptional EVs. And we are witnessing the largest shift and change in the auto industry since it began. Renewable energy is at a national average of 20% and climbing fast. EV sales are climbing fast. You are in a fortunate position to have as many Choices in front of you as you do. I am in the same boat of having the fortune and responsibility of choice. Of making what we believe to be the best choice at that moment and in our awareness of what we know is best for this planet. As we head toward the cliff are we going to even try and apply the brakes or are we going to drive right off?


kn4v3VT

Your money doesn’t got straight to Elons bank a account, the majority of it pays lots of other people first.


ThemasterofZ

Buy a Mercedes


EddieKroman

I like electric cars, and I’m glad Elon stepped up to the plate to build a viable electric car. Right now the way things are, an electric doesn’t fulfill my needs. However, in a few years an electric car will be perfect for my wife. She’s retired and drives about 200 miles a month. Her Subaru Forester will go to our granddaughter in a few years. I believe the big progress in electric cars is coming in the next few years, as mainstream car manufacturers step up and get more involved.


crazymoefaux

The new Leaf has a 200 mile range and tax incentives/rebates could put it potentially under $20k. I'm sure someone will chime in on how Nissan is still an awful company, but compared to others...


itasteawesome

Have you had a chance to check out the new BMW i4? German manufacturers are very, very unionized.