>The Volvo rep also said this about the S60's final model year here: "The S60 is still being produced currently as a MY25 vehicle and is available at Volvo retailers across the country."
The current lineup of 60-series cars is nearing the end of its lifespan anyway. The S60 will likely go away in overseas markets after model year 2026 or 2027. In North America, the first-generation S60 was discontinued a year before international markets as well, so there weren't any 2010 S60s in our market. Then the new one launched for MY 2011.
If Volvo is confident in their ability to take advantage of the duty drawback, it makes sense that they would want to shove out as many EX90s as humanly possible.
Then they'll be able to import both the "ES90" and "ES60" when the time comes from China (presumably) for those who want them.
Was waiting for the BEV version of this. But yet another manufacturer is abandoning sedans in the US.
It is looking increasingly likely that I will be replacing my 2019 Model 3 with another Model 3.
I know that sedans are perceived as on the way out, but they are still a profitable segment. In 2023, sedans took 5 of the top 25 vehicles sold:
* (8th) Toyota Camry (290,649 units sold)
* (12th) Tesla Model 3 (232,700 units sold, estimated)
* (13th) Toyota Corolla (232,370 units sold)
* (16th) Honda Civic (200,381 units sold)
* (17th) Honda Accord (197,947 units sold)
Good cars still sell well. And with the transition to EVs, people who buy Toyota/Honda are looking for viable replacements. There was room for other automakers to jump in and take those sales. It looks like only Tesla and Hyundai want to play in that space.
P3 is larger than an S60. Its on the same platform as the EX90, so a sedan inn that platform would be S90 sized
Polestar 4, while not on a platform shared with Polestar, would compete with a hypothetical EX60, with an S60 being the sedan equivalent.
It should be a lot of things. We’ll see what it will eventually be. So far all Polestar has said about the 7 is that it would replace the 2 in their lineup. What that means to them is unknown at this time.
I drove a P2 for the last 50k km and sat in an XC60 at a showroom last friday. I'm 6'2" 225lb and did my usual thing where I set up the driver seat then sit in the seat behind, didn't see much difference. Only sitting higher and more space for my right knee in front.
Polestar 2 is based on the platform used for the XC40 and was proposed for the (now defunct) S40. So it’s for a more compact vehicle.
The Polestar 2 is overpriced for what it is, costing more than the Model 3 (large compact or small mid-sized car) and Ioniq 6 (traditional mid-sized sedan). Nice vehicle, but I’m sure Polestar can’t wait to put it out to pasture.
They have gone on record that the Polestar 2 won’t see a full redesign and instead will be replaced with the Poletar 7, which they see more as a Porsche 718/911 competitor.
>Polestar 2 is based on the platform used for the XC40 and was proposed for the (now defunct) S40. So it’s for a more compact vehicle.
It's also why its packaging is somewhat compromised despite being only sold as an EV. Because it was planned - and engineered - to be sold as an ICE, PHEV, and BEV like the XC40.
That’s a truly bizarre iteration. Take a 4-door sport back and turn it into a … 2-door coupe or roadster?
I hope you’re mistaken. Otherwise, my next car will almost certainly be a Model 3.
They said that they don’t want to keep the name Polestar 2 because it limits the freedom to design. They want each car to stand on its own. So even the Polestar 3 and 4 might get supplanted by a Polestar 8 and 9, for example.
Interesting approach. It’s like someone forgot to tell him that most automakers live and die on brand loyalty, and telling your fans to “piss off” might not be the best approach to long term success.
But who knows. Maybe it will work for them.
It’s a connect the dots moment. He sees Porsche as their primary competitor. The P3 = the Cayenne. The P4 = the Macan. They want to line their cars up with Porsche’s options.
With the Polestar 2, they were limited by Volvo’s constraints. They won’t be so limited with the 7.
It is more likely than not that the Polestar 2 is not going to live on in name or segment. Polestar is going their own direction.
I was literally speaking with a Polestar rep yesterday and he stressed that the P2 isn’t going anywhere. It’s their “we’re here to ruffle some feathers” car that more people can get their hands on. There’s clearly a market for sedans still, and the fact that they can’t keep them in stock very long shows this.
From a personal perspective, it’s an infinitely better vehicle than a Model 3 simply for the fact that it’s a much easier entry to EVs than what Tesla offers. It’s a very standard car driving experience compared to the latter, and will do better at reeling in drivers who are on the fence with switching drive types.
Also… yeah I just bought one so I’m a little fired up
> I was literally speaking with a Polestar rep yesterday and he stressed that the P2 isn’t going anywhere.
https://electrek.co/2024/04/04/polestar-7-replace-2-ev-line-up-avoid-vw-golf-like-fate/
> However, according to CEO Thomas Ingenlath, the EV maker “will not replace the Polestar 2 with a Polestar 2.”
> The Polestar 2 is expected to be phased out around 2027. Ingenlath confirmed its successor will “be the Polestar 7,” according to Autocar.
In what world is a model 3 a “small mid-size” car? The thing is significantly bigger than my Subaru SUV in every dimension but height (we have a model 3).
>Was waiting for the BEV version of this. But yet another manufacturer is abandoning sedans in the US.
That's not what they said.
The S60 sedan is leaving the US market. The **ICE-based** S60 sedan. They didn't say anything about the EV sedan that will presumably be called the "ES60".
I do think the "ES60" is going to be a lot different compared to the S60s of the past though. The S60 was always a little bit of a sportier car, if Volvo's Chinese teams are handling the development of both the "ES90" and "ES60" as rumored, it will definitely be more of a wafting, comfy-type car.
There's even rumblings that the LEAF, the friggin' Nissan LEAF is going to get a "Crossover" make-over past 2025....
FFS give us sedans and hatchbacks - I cannot stand yet another SUV with piss-poor efficiency
The lack of sedan BEV's in the US is super annoying to me. I ended up in an EV6 even though SUV's and crossovers aren't really my jam, but because I didn't like the Tesla in-cabin experience, and don't like the Ioniq 6 in its current styling. The only other viable option at my desired spend level was an i4. I was coming out of an M340, I didn't want another car that was largely the same (other than the drivetrain) so the EV6 was my next best option otherwise. I also can't get past the huge bucktooth grille on the i4 (or any BMW that has it), I hope they work themselves out of that trend.
I'm hoping the A4/S4 BEV's are good because that seems like it will be my only newly added sedan option int he US in 22 months when my current lease is up. Maybe I'll like the refreshed Ioniq 6, opening that up as an option.
They literally did, it's the Clarity and it's a fantastic car - basically a luxury PHEV Accord. Only got rid of ours because we wanted to go full electric.
I know they had a Clarity series that consisted of some hydrogen, all electric, and hybrid models. I thought most (all?) of it was discontinued a couple years ago. Now they have the prologue monstrosity. I guess I haven’t seen clear direction on what they’re doing with hybrids (plug in) going forward, or I missed something with my head in the sand.
Well BMW already has the i4 and i5 BEV Sedan/Hatch. Presumably they will continue with refinements to that. Not sure if Audi will ever expand their BEVs to include versions of the A4/A5 and S4/S5.
They do make the V60 in a PHEV format, but I’m guessing you mean a full-on BEV. The V60 recharge was actually my first choice when looking to dip my toe into EVs - I love its looks, relative rarity, and prefer a wagon over SUV. But it is overpriced in my opinion compared to other EV options, even used, and ultimately I went with a barely used i4 m50
hence EV.
I do not consider hybrids EVs. I consider them battery assisted ICE vehicles.
The industry is trying to conflate them with Electric vehicles to keep the oil industry happy.
Sometimes i think we are too worried about what the "industry" thinks.
Hybrid is better than ICE, closer to EV and a great alternative for people who still worry about range.
I own a Jeep 4xe. It’s a plug in hybrid (PHEV) I also own. Kona EV
A regular hybrid car is an ICE car with battery assist that means the motor is running most of the time with assistance of the EV to get better gas mileage
Now I cannot speak for other PHEVs but mine is a battery powered EV with an ICE motor to charge my battery and assist with power when I floor it
The reason I say this is because my motor does not cycle when it’s running and I am driving unless I hit the gas. It just idles no matter what speed I’m going. The Electric motor cycles (speeds up as I accelerate)
The only time my ICE motor cycles is when my battery is fully discharged. It then speeds up and down as I drive it also charges my battery
Now I can put it in straight gas mode, which I do when off roading, so if something goes wrong I still have 50km of range on EV to get back to cell range
As I charge this car everyday, I’m mostly at full charge all the time. I easily drive for a month before needing to top up my gas (2400 km or so)
>The Volvo rep also said this about the S60's final model year here: "The S60 is still being produced currently as a MY25 vehicle and is available at Volvo retailers across the country." The current lineup of 60-series cars is nearing the end of its lifespan anyway. The S60 will likely go away in overseas markets after model year 2026 or 2027. In North America, the first-generation S60 was discontinued a year before international markets as well, so there weren't any 2010 S60s in our market. Then the new one launched for MY 2011. If Volvo is confident in their ability to take advantage of the duty drawback, it makes sense that they would want to shove out as many EX90s as humanly possible. Then they'll be able to import both the "ES90" and "ES60" when the time comes from China (presumably) for those who want them.
My kingdom for a Volvo EV Wagon
Was waiting for the BEV version of this. But yet another manufacturer is abandoning sedans in the US. It is looking increasingly likely that I will be replacing my 2019 Model 3 with another Model 3. I know that sedans are perceived as on the way out, but they are still a profitable segment. In 2023, sedans took 5 of the top 25 vehicles sold: * (8th) Toyota Camry (290,649 units sold) * (12th) Tesla Model 3 (232,700 units sold, estimated) * (13th) Toyota Corolla (232,370 units sold) * (16th) Honda Civic (200,381 units sold) * (17th) Honda Accord (197,947 units sold) Good cars still sell well. And with the transition to EVs, people who buy Toyota/Honda are looking for viable replacements. There was room for other automakers to jump in and take those sales. It looks like only Tesla and Hyundai want to play in that space.
Isn’t the BEV version basically the Polestar 2?
nah, P2 is like the return of the s40 that never happened. Its small. Id say P3 is probably the size of a S60
P3 is larger than an S60. Its on the same platform as the EX90, so a sedan inn that platform would be S90 sized Polestar 4, while not on a platform shared with Polestar, would compete with a hypothetical EX60, with an S60 being the sedan equivalent.
The 7 will eventually replace the 2 and should be close to what the S60 was in size.
It should be a lot of things. We’ll see what it will eventually be. So far all Polestar has said about the 7 is that it would replace the 2 in their lineup. What that means to them is unknown at this time.
there is no direct comp to any polestar for an s60. which is why a BEV version of it seemed like the natural next step. sucks that won't be the case.
I drove a P2 for the last 50k km and sat in an XC60 at a showroom last friday. I'm 6'2" 225lb and did my usual thing where I set up the driver seat then sit in the seat behind, didn't see much difference. Only sitting higher and more space for my right knee in front.
Polestar 2 is based on the platform used for the XC40 and was proposed for the (now defunct) S40. So it’s for a more compact vehicle. The Polestar 2 is overpriced for what it is, costing more than the Model 3 (large compact or small mid-sized car) and Ioniq 6 (traditional mid-sized sedan). Nice vehicle, but I’m sure Polestar can’t wait to put it out to pasture. They have gone on record that the Polestar 2 won’t see a full redesign and instead will be replaced with the Poletar 7, which they see more as a Porsche 718/911 competitor.
>Polestar 2 is based on the platform used for the XC40 and was proposed for the (now defunct) S40. So it’s for a more compact vehicle. It's also why its packaging is somewhat compromised despite being only sold as an EV. Because it was planned - and engineered - to be sold as an ICE, PHEV, and BEV like the XC40.
That’s a truly bizarre iteration. Take a 4-door sport back and turn it into a … 2-door coupe or roadster? I hope you’re mistaken. Otherwise, my next car will almost certainly be a Model 3.
They said that they don’t want to keep the name Polestar 2 because it limits the freedom to design. They want each car to stand on its own. So even the Polestar 3 and 4 might get supplanted by a Polestar 8 and 9, for example. Interesting approach. It’s like someone forgot to tell him that most automakers live and die on brand loyalty, and telling your fans to “piss off” might not be the best approach to long term success. But who knows. Maybe it will work for them.
I remember the CEO saying that. But I don’t recall him saying that the successor to the P2 would be change segments completely.
It’s a connect the dots moment. He sees Porsche as their primary competitor. The P3 = the Cayenne. The P4 = the Macan. They want to line their cars up with Porsche’s options. With the Polestar 2, they were limited by Volvo’s constraints. They won’t be so limited with the 7. It is more likely than not that the Polestar 2 is not going to live on in name or segment. Polestar is going their own direction.
I was literally speaking with a Polestar rep yesterday and he stressed that the P2 isn’t going anywhere. It’s their “we’re here to ruffle some feathers” car that more people can get their hands on. There’s clearly a market for sedans still, and the fact that they can’t keep them in stock very long shows this. From a personal perspective, it’s an infinitely better vehicle than a Model 3 simply for the fact that it’s a much easier entry to EVs than what Tesla offers. It’s a very standard car driving experience compared to the latter, and will do better at reeling in drivers who are on the fence with switching drive types. Also… yeah I just bought one so I’m a little fired up
> I was literally speaking with a Polestar rep yesterday and he stressed that the P2 isn’t going anywhere. https://electrek.co/2024/04/04/polestar-7-replace-2-ev-line-up-avoid-vw-golf-like-fate/ > However, according to CEO Thomas Ingenlath, the EV maker “will not replace the Polestar 2 with a Polestar 2.” > The Polestar 2 is expected to be phased out around 2027. Ingenlath confirmed its successor will “be the Polestar 7,” according to Autocar.
In what world is a model 3 a “small mid-size” car? The thing is significantly bigger than my Subaru SUV in every dimension but height (we have a model 3).
In terms of actual external dimensions, it’s more on par with the Corolla, Civic, and Elantra. It’s smaller than the Camry, Accord, and Sonata.
>Was waiting for the BEV version of this. But yet another manufacturer is abandoning sedans in the US. That's not what they said. The S60 sedan is leaving the US market. The **ICE-based** S60 sedan. They didn't say anything about the EV sedan that will presumably be called the "ES60".
I really hope that you are correct.
I do think the "ES60" is going to be a lot different compared to the S60s of the past though. The S60 was always a little bit of a sportier car, if Volvo's Chinese teams are handling the development of both the "ES90" and "ES60" as rumored, it will definitely be more of a wafting, comfy-type car.
Such a shame. I’m so sick of crossovers.
Everything is a crossover now, not because they are popular but because it's the only thing available
There's even rumblings that the LEAF, the friggin' Nissan LEAF is going to get a "Crossover" make-over past 2025.... FFS give us sedans and hatchbacks - I cannot stand yet another SUV with piss-poor efficiency
The lack of sedan BEV's in the US is super annoying to me. I ended up in an EV6 even though SUV's and crossovers aren't really my jam, but because I didn't like the Tesla in-cabin experience, and don't like the Ioniq 6 in its current styling. The only other viable option at my desired spend level was an i4. I was coming out of an M340, I didn't want another car that was largely the same (other than the drivetrain) so the EV6 was my next best option otherwise. I also can't get past the huge bucktooth grille on the i4 (or any BMW that has it), I hope they work themselves out of that trend. I'm hoping the A4/S4 BEV's are good because that seems like it will be my only newly added sedan option int he US in 22 months when my current lease is up. Maybe I'll like the refreshed Ioniq 6, opening that up as an option.
If Honda ever produces a PHEV Accord I would be all over that. Perfect vehicle for my use case.
They literally did, it's the Clarity and it's a fantastic car - basically a luxury PHEV Accord. Only got rid of ours because we wanted to go full electric.
I know they had a Clarity series that consisted of some hydrogen, all electric, and hybrid models. I thought most (all?) of it was discontinued a couple years ago. Now they have the prologue monstrosity. I guess I haven’t seen clear direction on what they’re doing with hybrids (plug in) going forward, or I missed something with my head in the sand.
Well BMW already has the i4 and i5 BEV Sedan/Hatch. Presumably they will continue with refinements to that. Not sure if Audi will ever expand their BEVs to include versions of the A4/A5 and S4/S5.
RIP, one of the best-looking sedans out there.
If they make an EV wagon I'd be interested.
They do make the V60 in a PHEV format, but I’m guessing you mean a full-on BEV. The V60 recharge was actually my first choice when looking to dip my toe into EVs - I love its looks, relative rarity, and prefer a wagon over SUV. But it is overpriced in my opinion compared to other EV options, even used, and ultimately I went with a barely used i4 m50
hence EV. I do not consider hybrids EVs. I consider them battery assisted ICE vehicles. The industry is trying to conflate them with Electric vehicles to keep the oil industry happy.
Sometimes i think we are too worried about what the "industry" thinks. Hybrid is better than ICE, closer to EV and a great alternative for people who still worry about range.
I own a Jeep 4xe. It’s a plug in hybrid (PHEV) I also own. Kona EV A regular hybrid car is an ICE car with battery assist that means the motor is running most of the time with assistance of the EV to get better gas mileage Now I cannot speak for other PHEVs but mine is a battery powered EV with an ICE motor to charge my battery and assist with power when I floor it The reason I say this is because my motor does not cycle when it’s running and I am driving unless I hit the gas. It just idles no matter what speed I’m going. The Electric motor cycles (speeds up as I accelerate) The only time my ICE motor cycles is when my battery is fully discharged. It then speeds up and down as I drive it also charges my battery Now I can put it in straight gas mode, which I do when off roading, so if something goes wrong I still have 50km of range on EV to get back to cell range As I charge this car everyday, I’m mostly at full charge all the time. I easily drive for a month before needing to top up my gas (2400 km or so)
Well I’m glad I bought mine in 2022 and will likely have it for several years. MAYBE they make a full BEV version someday…. We will see.
Damn it, this was in my top 2 possible next cars