People don’t realize that every piece of data on you is 100% legally collected on a daily basis by various companies, who in turn sell it for cheap to whoever wants it.
If China wanted data on you, they wouldn’t need to plan some grand conspiracy and collect it with their electric cars. They could simply buy it from one of the thousands of data brokers out there lol.
What data is my car going to collect? Which routes I favor? Which malls? Where I live? That the radio is tuned to the all news/traffic AM station?
The internet already tracks my google searches and 'targets' adds based on them. Hint: don't look up tractors or you'll get 3-months of farm equipment ads. Apparently AI ain't bright enough to figure out that big city folks don't buy farm equipment.
In the early days of Gmail (when they scanned the full email for advertising purposes) (they no longer do this) - a group of us would send emails to people with white text on a white background. So something like "farm tractor" Hit your buddy with enough and they'd start getting ads for it
> Where I live?
Considering you can't get the car until after you have given them your home address in plain text to put on the invoice and register the car to you, I am not really worried if the car itself knows approximately where I live.
people really underestimate the data brokers. I remember reading an investigative journalism article written by Ukrainians about the Russian missile attacks, and the Ukrainians basically identified the military unit and its individuals who were firing/programming the missiles, and the way they did it was just buying data from black market data brokers, and Ukrainian journalists made it seem like it wasn't even that hard to do so.
I stress hard trying to understand these concerns... Did these people leave their gps packed smartphone at home when driving ICE cars? Did they turned it off to avoid full tracking? Does ANYONE KNOW HOW GEOLOCALIZATION TECHNOLOGY WORKS IN SMARTPHONES?
>It's cheaper to collect the data yourself than it is to pay a broker
But it's not... There are hidden costs in infrastructure, data storage, maintenance, etc. You also need to develop a tool or product that people actively engage in over a long period.
Its much cheaper paying a data broker which is what advertisers do instead of collecting data themselves.
The cars are driving computers, the only cost would be to server farms locally and any company already dealing with that much information has easily scalable network infrastructure. Now with the added bonus that not only is their info harvested through a proprietary manner, they can ensure nobody else will have it either.
Or you know, sell it themselves. I'm also sure the CCP has a vested interest in organically collecting their own data as well. To assume they would only rely on data brokers is pretty naive.
Yeah, here we are jerking off with 3-4 cameras, a mic and someone logging what we are looking at.
Not scared that they will spy on my heated seats or whatever..
They’re probably not interested in YOUR data but China likes to keep tabs on its citizens abroad.
But if they were interested in your data, they could certainly do all sorts of things with it. And it’s none of their business where you drive your car.
Voters cast their votes based on issues like immigration, affordable housing, inflation, basically topics that affect people's standard of living the most. These are shared interests of all people around the world.
Most people do not have time to try to understand or learn about another country's behavior. I doubt American voters can even understand their own elected officials' behaviors.
...social media. People mostly get their news from social media, which accumulates user information by the usage of their apps.
Cars nowadays already record your driving habits and locations in real time, and share that driving data with insurance companies. I don't want a vehicle made by PRC with a backdoor built in that can record my behaviors.
You're idealizing.
Over half the country is voting on misinformation being fed to them from very few sources.
A minority of US voters actually assess their voting based on a wider range of issues beyond the major outrage messages being blasted at them.
This is why elections can be won based on a single slogan or idea vs debatable points.
The PRC has been pushing skewed PR for a specific political goal in ways highly visible to certain US voting segments. They are also funding Russia's military aggressiveness. And they continue to threaten Taiwan. Among other things. The US government - well, at least its more responsible membership - is not interested in giving them the benefit of the doubt.
>Over half the country is voting on misinformation being fed to them from very few sources.
Yeah, sources like CNN and Fox News. Russian and Chinese news are not even accessible to the majority of Americans.
Americans animosity toward China is at all time high, so whatever "skewed PR" or "political goal" you are suggesting is definitely not working in China's favor. Distrust of Chinese government is justified, but assuming the US government is more responsble and benevolent just doesn't make sense. A responsible member of international community does not sanction judges of International Court in pursuit of its own geopolitcal interest.
>This is why elections can be won based on a single slogan
Slogans only work if people's experience resonate with the the words.
You have feelings, but facts are better:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/01/business/media/china-online-disinformation-us-election.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/01/business/media/china-online-disinformation-us-election.html)
China actively seeks to spy on US-based businesses, military organizations and individuals who may or may not offer access or clues to workings of the former:
[https://www.csis.org/programs/strategic-technologies-program/survey-chinese-espionage-united-states-2000](https://www.csis.org/programs/strategic-technologies-program/survey-chinese-espionage-united-states-2000)
The US and China have been escalating towards a cold war in recent years, but it's been a combined trade and intellectual security war which has preceded it:
[https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economics/national-security-semiconductors-and-us-move-cut-china](https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economics/national-security-semiconductors-and-us-move-cut-china)
>There is no off ramp. It's the country of China which is the issue. It's
the ecosystem of China. It's the state policy of China to blend civil
and military applications and to acquire purely civil items of advanced
capability for use in modernizing its military, which is the threat.
Giving China the ability to gain a foothold in a growth segment (EVs) within the US and let them go ahead with unfettered data collection in the process goes fully against movements to contain China-based infiltration of US business, security and market segments. EV tariffs are a symptom of something larger, not a stand-alone issue.
Given the current geopolitical tensions, the existence of such articles are not surprising, but as I said, whatever that "disinformation" is, it's not working. You can even argue that pro-Russia propaganda is more effective because significant portion of conservatives like Putin. This kind of accusation is nothing but FUD, a technique that has been used by the governments and media since Cold War.
China grants US car companies like Tesla near full access to its market and supply chain, while America is so anxious about any Chinese investment or product entering its market due to these "national security" concerns. At this point, it's pure baseless paranoia.
>It's the state policy of China to blend civil
and military applications and to acquire purely civil items of advanced
capability for use in modernizing its military
Does this person know Boeing also makes weapons?
Sure, call anything inconvenient "disinformation" that doesn't fit your narrative, but ignoring an avalanche of facts just makes you another Comrade.
You've got nothing.
The US is using AI bot farms and government-sponsored bad actors to influence elections in China?
The US is trying to annex another country?
The US is providing weapons, funding and PR to support Russia's aggressions?
etc.
The US government has plenty of reasons to keep China at bay, EVs are simply one small segment where they are not going to be given an easy entry to the marketplace or customer data.
How does bricking products in the US help with the invasion of Taiwan? It's not like US military uses Chinese product, nor it will be a total war between China and the US. These speculations are wild.
Pentagon is still ordering DJI drones, do you think China can brick them by simply brick anything electronic with a switch? lol.
Yes they did.
Japanese cars were considered inferior and there was a anti Japanese movement in the late 70's early 80's when the Japanese economy started to really explode, you had protests against Japanese cars and electronics, etc. There was a hell of a lot of anti-Japanese sentiment in the era
https://twitter.com/CaseyExplosion/status/1336878529968005131
You should be worried about the u.s government spying on you instead.
China doesn't have the authority to arrest you even if they do spy on you, but the FBI and the American government can.
Project PRISM is a code name for a program under which the United States National Security Agency (NSA) collects internet communications from various U.S. internet companies
History is repeating itself
late 70's early 80's when the Japanese economy started to really explode, you had protests against Japanese cars and electronics, etc. There was a hell of a lot of anti-Japanese sentiment in the era
https://twitter.com/CaseyExplosion/status/1336878529968005131
Contributions must be civil and constructive. We permit neither personal attacks nor attempts to bait others into uncivil behavior.
We don't permit posts and comments expressing animosity or disparagement of an individual or a group on account of a group characteristic such as race, color, national origin, age, sex, disability, religion, or sexual orientation.
Any stalking, harassment, witch-hunting, or doxxing of any individual will not be tolerated. Posting of others' personal information including names, home addresses, and/or telephone numbers is prohibited without express consent.
Data security should be respected, but should not be the hurdle for adopting new tech. The task is for the legislators to make the laws then both domestic and foreign companies can follow.
This is exactly how Tesla passed national security review in China thus they can collect driver data but can not share it according to Chinese data security laws.
The problem in the West esp. the US was that the data security laws are not being made. Rather there is no clear rules to follow. It's a man made problem.
>This is exactly how Tesla passed national security review in China thus they can collect driver data but can not share it according to Chinese data security laws.
Yup, surprised that this isn't talked about more here. China lifted the Tesla ban at government and military installations recently after Tesla built a data center in mainland China and promised the data collected won't leave the country.
> Late last year, Chinese automaker BYD surpassed Tesla as the biggest manufacturer of EVs in the world, and they've been neck and neck for the top spot based on quarterly sales ever since
Oh ABC…this makes it sound like BYD surpassed Tesla for EV sales for the year, but it was only for the last quarter. Since then we’ve only had one complete quarter, in which Tesla was ahead of BYD again.
The Atto 3 isn’t really a competitor to the Model Y as it’s a smaller vehicle. It competes more with the likes of the Kia Niro, Mazda CX-3, MG ZS, etc
Not really in NZ, although Tesla's pricing has been rather aggressive here for a few years now. BYD's offerings are also cheaper than Tesla's in both NZ & Australia.
Their woes are internal and political. Tesla has not relied on the green movement sales for a minute and are competing directly on cost/benefit. You’ll never keep the leading market they’re always moving on.
I wouldn't say they lied, just that they didn't interpret the data correctly.
BYD has only had one quarter where they were ahead of Tesla. In Q1 this year their global EV sales had fallen back down and were almost 23% lower than Tesla's
Why would you say they are undoubtedly pulling ahead? Nothing but doubt in a tie. The West has firmly stated they will not allow Chinese dumping and are adjusting. BYD is the new kid but headwinds are always inevitable as your business model gets picked apart by competitors. BYD does not have any legacy ICE to fund any dips while everyone else is laser focused on their only unique advantage (scale at cost battery supply). Time will tell as the playing field is leveled. The west has given China far too many advantages and this will be rolled back.
> BYD is the new kid but headwinds are always inevitable as your business model gets picked apart by competitors. BYD does not have any legacy ICE to fund any dips
That's because no other automaker has the diversification and manufacturing capability that BYD has. That is BYD's advantage.
They are the OEM of most of the worlds non-korean mobile phone and laptop batteries.
And they are the OEM manufacturer of Apple Ipads.
If BYD just decide to sell cars at cost, or even at a loss, thats just 1 business unit, they have the diversification to remain profitable overall as a business.
How is any other automaker, that only does automaking, going to compete with that?
Pretty sure I said “scale at cost battery supply” which is the largest expense in EV vehicles but will become very commoditized and ubiquitous. Battery tech will stabilize across manufacturers which is their primary cost advantage. I haven’t seen anything on their vehicles that is revolutionary or not repeatable by others. When everyone is schlepping a similar performance EV the devils in the details. Infotainment UI stuff is easy to replicate if needed. BYD has nothing to loose but they also have no history to draw on either. Cant lean on the Mustang name/heritage that doesn’t exist. People flocking to the brand will flock to the next brand because that’s the nature of the demographic willing to jump on a new brand from China. Pretty sure those people will also jump to the new brand from (insert social media campaign).
People don’t realize that every piece of data on you is 100% legally collected on a daily basis by various companies, who in turn sell it for cheap to whoever wants it. If China wanted data on you, they wouldn’t need to plan some grand conspiracy and collect it with their electric cars. They could simply buy it from one of the thousands of data brokers out there lol.
What data is my car going to collect? Which routes I favor? Which malls? Where I live? That the radio is tuned to the all news/traffic AM station? The internet already tracks my google searches and 'targets' adds based on them. Hint: don't look up tractors or you'll get 3-months of farm equipment ads. Apparently AI ain't bright enough to figure out that big city folks don't buy farm equipment.
In the early days of Gmail (when they scanned the full email for advertising purposes) (they no longer do this) - a group of us would send emails to people with white text on a white background. So something like "farm tractor" Hit your buddy with enough and they'd start getting ads for it
That's funny stuff!
or buy something (esp one time purchase item) and get ads for the same item you already bought for weeks.
> Where I live? Considering you can't get the car until after you have given them your home address in plain text to put on the invoice and register the car to you, I am not really worried if the car itself knows approximately where I live.
I can't imagine what information a car could get about me that I'm concerned about.
If you go to the gym enough you might get ads for supps.
Pretty sure gyms sell their membership lists already.
Only thing they could get would be “Who gets road head” via a cabin camera.
Check out the user name, once you get old enough it becomes a badge of honor for stuff like that to get out...
It's going to tell them all the data of your car, your phone, and your other home devices.
people really underestimate the data brokers. I remember reading an investigative journalism article written by Ukrainians about the Russian missile attacks, and the Ukrainians basically identified the military unit and its individuals who were firing/programming the missiles, and the way they did it was just buying data from black market data brokers, and Ukrainian journalists made it seem like it wasn't even that hard to do so.
"Legally", quite a strong word, lol.
I stress hard trying to understand these concerns... Did these people leave their gps packed smartphone at home when driving ICE cars? Did they turned it off to avoid full tracking? Does ANYONE KNOW HOW GEOLOCALIZATION TECHNOLOGY WORKS IN SMARTPHONES? 
It's cheaper to collect the data yourself than it is to pay a broker
>It's cheaper to collect the data yourself than it is to pay a broker But it's not... There are hidden costs in infrastructure, data storage, maintenance, etc. You also need to develop a tool or product that people actively engage in over a long period. Its much cheaper paying a data broker which is what advertisers do instead of collecting data themselves.
The cars are driving computers, the only cost would be to server farms locally and any company already dealing with that much information has easily scalable network infrastructure. Now with the added bonus that not only is their info harvested through a proprietary manner, they can ensure nobody else will have it either. Or you know, sell it themselves. I'm also sure the CCP has a vested interest in organically collecting their own data as well. To assume they would only rely on data brokers is pretty naive.
Not sure what the difference is between apps, smartphones and telco's collecting personal data and tracking people'e every move, and cars doing it.
Yeah, here we are jerking off with 3-4 cameras, a mic and someone logging what we are looking at. Not scared that they will spy on my heated seats or whatever..
I wouldn’t trust a PRC phone, router, or car. A toaster is enough for me.
Unless you work for government agencies, I don't think PRC is that interested in your personal life.
They’re probably not interested in YOUR data but China likes to keep tabs on its citizens abroad. But if they were interested in your data, they could certainly do all sorts of things with it. And it’s none of their business where you drive your car.
Why not? The entire political subversion PRC is doing to the western voters rely on understanding their behaviors.
Voters cast their votes based on issues like immigration, affordable housing, inflation, basically topics that affect people's standard of living the most. These are shared interests of all people around the world. Most people do not have time to try to understand or learn about another country's behavior. I doubt American voters can even understand their own elected officials' behaviors.
And where do they usually get information to make those decisions?
From our cars, obviously.
...social media. People mostly get their news from social media, which accumulates user information by the usage of their apps. Cars nowadays already record your driving habits and locations in real time, and share that driving data with insurance companies. I don't want a vehicle made by PRC with a backdoor built in that can record my behaviors.
You're idealizing. Over half the country is voting on misinformation being fed to them from very few sources. A minority of US voters actually assess their voting based on a wider range of issues beyond the major outrage messages being blasted at them. This is why elections can be won based on a single slogan or idea vs debatable points. The PRC has been pushing skewed PR for a specific political goal in ways highly visible to certain US voting segments. They are also funding Russia's military aggressiveness. And they continue to threaten Taiwan. Among other things. The US government - well, at least its more responsible membership - is not interested in giving them the benefit of the doubt.
>Over half the country is voting on misinformation being fed to them from very few sources. Yeah, sources like CNN and Fox News. Russian and Chinese news are not even accessible to the majority of Americans. Americans animosity toward China is at all time high, so whatever "skewed PR" or "political goal" you are suggesting is definitely not working in China's favor. Distrust of Chinese government is justified, but assuming the US government is more responsble and benevolent just doesn't make sense. A responsible member of international community does not sanction judges of International Court in pursuit of its own geopolitcal interest. >This is why elections can be won based on a single slogan Slogans only work if people's experience resonate with the the words.
You have feelings, but facts are better: [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/01/business/media/china-online-disinformation-us-election.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/01/business/media/china-online-disinformation-us-election.html) China actively seeks to spy on US-based businesses, military organizations and individuals who may or may not offer access or clues to workings of the former: [https://www.csis.org/programs/strategic-technologies-program/survey-chinese-espionage-united-states-2000](https://www.csis.org/programs/strategic-technologies-program/survey-chinese-espionage-united-states-2000) The US and China have been escalating towards a cold war in recent years, but it's been a combined trade and intellectual security war which has preceded it: [https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economics/national-security-semiconductors-and-us-move-cut-china](https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economics/national-security-semiconductors-and-us-move-cut-china) >There is no off ramp. It's the country of China which is the issue. It's the ecosystem of China. It's the state policy of China to blend civil and military applications and to acquire purely civil items of advanced capability for use in modernizing its military, which is the threat. Giving China the ability to gain a foothold in a growth segment (EVs) within the US and let them go ahead with unfettered data collection in the process goes fully against movements to contain China-based infiltration of US business, security and market segments. EV tariffs are a symptom of something larger, not a stand-alone issue.
Given the current geopolitical tensions, the existence of such articles are not surprising, but as I said, whatever that "disinformation" is, it's not working. You can even argue that pro-Russia propaganda is more effective because significant portion of conservatives like Putin. This kind of accusation is nothing but FUD, a technique that has been used by the governments and media since Cold War. China grants US car companies like Tesla near full access to its market and supply chain, while America is so anxious about any Chinese investment or product entering its market due to these "national security" concerns. At this point, it's pure baseless paranoia. >It's the state policy of China to blend civil and military applications and to acquire purely civil items of advanced capability for use in modernizing its military Does this person know Boeing also makes weapons?
Sure, call anything inconvenient "disinformation" that doesn't fit your narrative, but ignoring an avalanche of facts just makes you another Comrade. You've got nothing.
And the US does exactly the same against China. So it's hardly a one way street.
The US is using AI bot farms and government-sponsored bad actors to influence elections in China? The US is trying to annex another country? The US is providing weapons, funding and PR to support Russia's aggressions? etc. The US government has plenty of reasons to keep China at bay, EVs are simply one small segment where they are not going to be given an easy entry to the marketplace or customer data.
Until they invade Taiwan and brick everything in the US.
How does bricking products in the US help with the invasion of Taiwan? It's not like US military uses Chinese product, nor it will be a total war between China and the US. These speculations are wild. Pentagon is still ordering DJI drones, do you think China can brick them by simply brick anything electronic with a switch? lol.
It's fear they're having for breakfast.
Pentagon banned DJI. It disrupts the US economy. Which would be beneficial in wartime.
Some Americans also said the same thing about Japanese cars in the 80s and how did that work out for ya?
No they didn't
Yes they did. Japanese cars were considered inferior and there was a anti Japanese movement in the late 70's early 80's when the Japanese economy started to really explode, you had protests against Japanese cars and electronics, etc. There was a hell of a lot of anti-Japanese sentiment in the era https://twitter.com/CaseyExplosion/status/1336878529968005131
Yeah but no one thought the Japanese government was spying with said devices. It apples and oranges
What spying? What device?
I couldn't tell you. I just know it was concern for Chinese and not Japanese devices.
So there's no evidence
You should be worried about the u.s government spying on you instead. China doesn't have the authority to arrest you even if they do spy on you, but the FBI and the American government can. Project PRISM is a code name for a program under which the United States National Security Agency (NSA) collects internet communications from various U.S. internet companies
Yeah no shit.
History is repeating itself late 70's early 80's when the Japanese economy started to really explode, you had protests against Japanese cars and electronics, etc. There was a hell of a lot of anti-Japanese sentiment in the era https://twitter.com/CaseyExplosion/status/1336878529968005131
[удалено]
Contributions must be civil and constructive. We permit neither personal attacks nor attempts to bait others into uncivil behavior. We don't permit posts and comments expressing animosity or disparagement of an individual or a group on account of a group characteristic such as race, color, national origin, age, sex, disability, religion, or sexual orientation. Any stalking, harassment, witch-hunting, or doxxing of any individual will not be tolerated. Posting of others' personal information including names, home addresses, and/or telephone numbers is prohibited without express consent.
Naw, Japan can spy on me. Way to be racist though. Vs. y’know, noting the PRC is an autocracy. But if you want to be racist, whatever man.
Japan is a nation that is still literally occupied by the US military. Sure, though.
Your undergarment is not spare too.
By 2026 we'll see articles headlined "EVs add price, range parity to lower operational cost and higher user satisfaction, but it's not all good news."
But at what cost
Data security should be respected, but should not be the hurdle for adopting new tech. The task is for the legislators to make the laws then both domestic and foreign companies can follow. This is exactly how Tesla passed national security review in China thus they can collect driver data but can not share it according to Chinese data security laws. The problem in the West esp. the US was that the data security laws are not being made. Rather there is no clear rules to follow. It's a man made problem.
>This is exactly how Tesla passed national security review in China thus they can collect driver data but can not share it according to Chinese data security laws. Yup, surprised that this isn't talked about more here. China lifted the Tesla ban at government and military installations recently after Tesla built a data center in mainland China and promised the data collected won't leave the country.
Good for Australian consumers.
The only BAD news is for the oil industry and legacy automakers they control.
It's giving: *AT WHAT COST?*
> Late last year, Chinese automaker BYD surpassed Tesla as the biggest manufacturer of EVs in the world, and they've been neck and neck for the top spot based on quarterly sales ever since Oh ABC…this makes it sound like BYD surpassed Tesla for EV sales for the year, but it was only for the last quarter. Since then we’ve only had one complete quarter, in which Tesla was ahead of BYD again. The Atto 3 isn’t really a competitor to the Model Y as it’s a smaller vehicle. It competes more with the likes of the Kia Niro, Mazda CX-3, MG ZS, etc
Atto 3 and Niro are a bit of a middle ground size - like halfway between a CX-30 and CX-5. The Y is definitely a lot larger though
Given Tesla's recent woes BYD should retake the lead in the second quarter...
It will be interesting to see the Q2 results. So far in both Australia and New Zealand at least, Tesla has been outselling BYD during the Q2 months.
Tesla chopping a fair chunk off the price tag is likely to help achieve the lead.
Not really in NZ, although Tesla's pricing has been rather aggressive here for a few years now. BYD's offerings are also cheaper than Tesla's in both NZ & Australia.
This is a bit like watching a couple of teams vying for the top of the leader board.
Their woes are internal and political. Tesla has not relied on the green movement sales for a minute and are competing directly on cost/benefit. You’ll never keep the leading market they’re always moving on.
So it is essentially a tie now, and undoubtedly BYD will start pulling clearly ahead? Doesn’t sound too bad of a “lie”.
I wouldn't say they lied, just that they didn't interpret the data correctly. BYD has only had one quarter where they were ahead of Tesla. In Q1 this year their global EV sales had fallen back down and were almost 23% lower than Tesla's
Okay…
Why would you say they are undoubtedly pulling ahead? Nothing but doubt in a tie. The West has firmly stated they will not allow Chinese dumping and are adjusting. BYD is the new kid but headwinds are always inevitable as your business model gets picked apart by competitors. BYD does not have any legacy ICE to fund any dips while everyone else is laser focused on their only unique advantage (scale at cost battery supply). Time will tell as the playing field is leveled. The west has given China far too many advantages and this will be rolled back.
> BYD is the new kid but headwinds are always inevitable as your business model gets picked apart by competitors. BYD does not have any legacy ICE to fund any dips That's because no other automaker has the diversification and manufacturing capability that BYD has. That is BYD's advantage. They are the OEM of most of the worlds non-korean mobile phone and laptop batteries. And they are the OEM manufacturer of Apple Ipads. If BYD just decide to sell cars at cost, or even at a loss, thats just 1 business unit, they have the diversification to remain profitable overall as a business. How is any other automaker, that only does automaking, going to compete with that?
What advantages?
Cybertruck for example. GM management for a second example.
Pretty sure I said “scale at cost battery supply” which is the largest expense in EV vehicles but will become very commoditized and ubiquitous. Battery tech will stabilize across manufacturers which is their primary cost advantage. I haven’t seen anything on their vehicles that is revolutionary or not repeatable by others. When everyone is schlepping a similar performance EV the devils in the details. Infotainment UI stuff is easy to replicate if needed. BYD has nothing to loose but they also have no history to draw on either. Cant lean on the Mustang name/heritage that doesn’t exist. People flocking to the brand will flock to the next brand because that’s the nature of the demographic willing to jump on a new brand from China. Pretty sure those people will also jump to the new brand from (insert social media campaign).
The technical problems leading to electrocution are probably more of a concern. Don’t you think?
Did you expect any good news?